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Rescue Efforts Continue in Taiwan; Biden Set to Speak With Netanyahu. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired April 04, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:01:30]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now: An angry and frustrated President Biden will momentarily speak to the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, after several World Central Kitchen aid workers were killed by an Israeli airstrike.

And CNN is on the ground in Taiwan as the search for earthquake survivors continues.

And we're now also learning about an Easter Sunday heist in Los Angeles, one of the biggest cash grabs in the city's history, thieves reportedly stealing $30 million.

Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington, and you're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

At any moment now, President Biden is due to hold a very important phone conversation with the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and it will almost certainly simmer with tension. A senior White House official says the president is -- quote -- "angry" and will voice his frustration over the Israeli military's killing of seven aid workers Monday in Gaza.

The founder of their charity, World Central Kitchen, wants an independent investigation and says the IDF, the Israel Defense Forces, systematically targeted them. A CNN analysis of videos of the aftermath shows the attacks appear to have been multiple precision strikes outside of the conflict zone.

The entire convoy, two armored cars and one unarmored vehicle, was struck. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE ANDRES, FOUNDER, WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN: This was not just a bad luck situation where, oops, we dropped the bomb in the wrong place or -- or -- no, this was over 1.5, 1.8 kilometers with a very defined humanitarian convoy that had signs in the top, in the roof, a very colorful logo that we are obviously very proud of, but that that's very clear who we are and what we do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Our CNN correspondents are covering all the angles of this important story. Arlette Saenz is over at the White House. Jeremy Diamond is joining us

from Tel Aviv. And Natasha Bertrand is over at the Pentagon.

Arlette, let's begin with you.

Has this call, this phone conversation been planned for a while, or was it scheduled after these aid workers were killed?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, President Biden is expected to convey his anger and frustration directly to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu when the two men speak in the coming hours.

This call was actually scheduled after that Israeli strike that killed seven aid workers working with World Central Kitchen in Gaza, a moment that has really prompted anger and outrage from President Biden. But even as we have heard this ramped-up rhetoric from the president, from the administration relating to this incident, what we have not seen yet is any change in U.S. policy towards their support of Israel's military campaign against Gaza.

Officials yesterday were quite clear that there is no shift in policy at this moment, really raising questions of whether Israel will face any consequences for the U.S. for this strike that left seven dead, including one American-Canadian citizen.

Now, this is just the latest flash point in an increasingly tense relationship between President Biden and Netanyahu. We have heard over the course of the past few weeks the president saying that Israel needs to take more care to protect civilians. That is especially the case when they are discussing a potential Israeli operation into the city of Rafah.

[11:05:00]

That is something that the White House and administration has really been trying to press Israelis on to consider alternative options other than a full-scale operation, ground invasion there. But this call will be very closely watched to also see what kind of leverage, influence the president will have over Netanyahu as he continues his campaign to root out Hamas in Gaza.

The president's expected to talk about the deaths of these Central -- World Central Kitchen workers, but also broadening out the conversation possibly to talk about humanitarian protections for aid workers going forward. Of course, there are also still those ongoing negotiations to try to secure a temporary cease-fire in order to get hostages out of Gaza and more humanitarian aid in, in Gaza.

And then there are the concerns the administration has about that potential Israeli operation in Rafah. This all comes as there is outrage from the international community, but President Biden is also facing significant pressure here at home. He heard some of that frustration with his handling of the conflict firsthand on Tuesday when he hosted Muslim community leaders here at the White House as they shared their concerns. So, a lot of big questions going forward for the president about

whether there could be any alteration to their strategy and approach. So far, officials have said that there's no imminent changes expected.

BLITZER: Interesting. Stand by.

I want to bring Jeremy in.

Jeremy, you're there in Israel for us. The prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, is facing a lot of pressure, enormous pressure, from all side, at home, from the United States, and also from the international community.

What is Netanyahu's goal in this phone conversation that's upcoming with the president?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, clearly, President Biden intends to speak to him about these strikes against the World Central Kitchen convoy which killed seven of these aid workers.

And we have watched over the course of this week as Israeli government officials, military officials, including the prime minister himself, have really sought to convey the seriousness with which the Israeli government and its military are taking what has been described here as a grave mistake. Whether or not he have -- will have sufficient answers to the president's questions is another matter altogether.

But this obviously will add another layer of tension between these two men at a time when we have watched the U.S. criticism of Israel's conduct of the war in Gaza rising over the course of the last few months, but, of course, no real changes in U.S. policy in terms of the supply of weapons and support for Israel's military campaign against Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

But the undercurrent to all of this here in Israel is also the fact that this is just one part of the pressure that the Israeli prime minister is facing. Beyond the international pressure, he is also facing pressure here at home.

We have seen rising protests against Netanyahu over the course of the last several weeks, with protesters going to his residence earlier this week, and, last night, Benny Gantz, his chief political rival, a member of the war cabinet, calling for early elections as soon as September.

That will be another layer to what the prime minister is facing here. And -- but, for now, there is no clear mechanism for Prime Minister Netanyahu's government to actually collapse. For now, his position here seems secure in that regard.

BLITZER: And it's interesting, Jeremy. As you know, there's new reporting just out in Israeli news publications that Israel has been using artificial intelligence to help identify bombing targets in Gaza.

Tell us about that. DIAMOND: Yes, this report coming from "+972" magazine, reporting that

the Israeli military has been using an artificial intelligence program known as Lavender to identify targets in Gaza, effectively developing kill lists of suspected militants, which the Israeli military then subsequently acted on.

This report says that the military relied on the system to carry out strikes, systematically targeting militants, including sometimes low- level militants, while they were in their homes at night with their families, resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

The Israeli military, for its part, didn't outright deny that this system exists, but they argued that this is merely a tool that is used in conjunction with human personnel who cross-reference this database to analyze and determine targets before actually authorizing those strikes.

But one source told "+972" that human personnel served, effectively, as a rubber stamp, sometimes spending only 20 seconds actually verifying the information that this A.I. system was giving them.

BLITZER: Yes, 972, the country code for Israel.

Natasha, you're over at the Pentagon for us. I know you have some new reporting on the transfer of more U.S. weapons, including bombs, to Israel. What are you learning?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, so we're learning that, on Monday, really just hours before this WCK strike occurred, the U.S. authorized a transfer of over 2,000 new bombs to the Israelis, including over 1,000 500-pound bombs, as well as over 1,000 small-diameter bombs, just adding, of course, to Israel's arsenal at a time of growing international outrage, including from President Biden, including from Secretary Austin, over how they have been conducting this war in Gaza.

[11:10:14]

And while this approval of these munitions did come before that WCK strike, according to a State Department spokesperson, it did, of course, come after over 198 workers in Gaza, in the West Bank had already been killed over the course of this nearly six-month war.

And so I think what you're going to see is, based off of these increasing and ongoing munitions transfers to Israel, munitions authorizations to Israel, which have been previously approved in many cases over the last several years, and therefore don't need new notifications to and approval by Congress, are going to be growing calls for the U.S. to use these munitions transfers and approvals as leverage over Israel's conduct.

Because, right now, of course, while the U.S. is expressing outrage over this apparent targeting of the WCK convoy, over the lack of protection for civilians in Gaza, and, of course, over the lack of humanitarian aid getting into the enclave, many critics of President Biden, including many Democratic lawmakers and Democrats, are saying that those words are not being matched with action.

And the U.S. does have leverage here that it could use in terms of arms sales that the Israelis continue to ask for, including as recently as last week, when Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant was here, that they could use to potentially try to change and influence Israel's behavior moving forward.

So far, as Arlette said, we have not seen any imminent signs that a policy change is coming.

BLITZER: Natasha Bertrand at the Pentagon, Arlette Saenz at the White House, Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv, to all of you, thank you very much.

Let's discuss what's going on with CNN political and global affairs analyst and Axios reporter Barak Ravid.

Barak, thanks very much for joining us. You're doing amazing reporting.

I know you're hearing from your sources that the White House temperature is -- quote -- "very high" going into this phone call with Netanyahu. How difficult has this relationship become, not just between the United States and Israel, but specifically between Biden and Netanyahu?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Thank you, Wolf.

I think the relationship between Biden and Netanyahu at the moment are maybe at their lowest point ever. And one of the reason that the call that is taking place, I think, in 15 minutes is going to be so difficult is because WCK, this organization headed by Jose Andres, has a special place in Joe Biden's heart.

And the reason is, is that Jose Andres is a longtime supporter of President Biden and a personal friend. And when Biden had to call Jose Andres to express condolences and to try to explain to him what happened, this was, I think, a very difficult moment for Biden, at least from what I hear from more than two or three U.S. officials.

They all say this was a very personal, difficult moment for Biden. And I think Netanyahu will feel it very well today when Biden calls him.

BLITZER: Yes, I suspect you're absolutely right.

A senior administration -- a senior Biden administration official says President Biden will express his frustrations on this call. But Ben Rhodes, who had served as President Obama's deputy national security adviser, says this.

And I'm quoting him now: "Until there are substantive consequences, the outrage does nothing. Bibi obviously doesn't care what the U.S. says. It's about what the U.S. does" -- close quote.

So will this call, Barak, really move the needle?

RAVID: So, first, I think Ben Rhodes is right.

Netanyahu -- I don't think Netanyahu doesn't care about what the U.S. says, but he obviously cares much more about what the U.S. does. Just the thing is that I don't think that Biden is acting very differently than the Obama administration.

There was a war in Gaza in 2014 for 51 days, and the Obama administration didn't act very differently than what Biden is doing now. There was one case at the time that they delayed one weapons shipment towards the end of that war, but nothing more than that.

So I think it's a bigger thing than this administration or that administration, because it is very hard politically for any U.S. president to take a step like delay or condition arms supply to Israel, and it has political consequences inside the U.S., especially on an election year.

BLITZER: And as you know, Netanyahu is facing major, major backlash, a lot of protests going on in Israel, major demonstrations just this week in Jerusalem outside the Knesset.

A prominent member of his war cabinet, Benny Gantz, is now calling for early elections in September, so he can challenge Netanyahu to become the next prime minister.

[11:15:01]

How significant, Barak, is all of this?

RAVID: I think it's very significant.

I think Netanyahu is very weak politically. He's under a lot of pressure internally. The war is not really moving anywhere, OK? There are not a lot of forces in Gaza. He's been talking about the Rafah operation for months, approving the plans again and again and again, but still not implementing it.

It has results in Israeli public opinion. His approval ratings are very, very low. But, on the other hand, we have to remember, he still has a 64-member-of-Knesset majority, OK? Even if Benny Gantz leaves the government today, Netanyahu is still the prime minister, and it will be very hard for anybody to bring down this government, maybe only if we will see those demonstrations growing to much bigger numbers than they are right now.

BLITZER: Yes, the polls in Israel show he would lose the next election if it were to happen any time soon as a result of his decisions over these past several months and the past few years, for that matter, as well.

As you know, the Israeli military -- and this is very significant -- has temporarily now suspended leave for all of its combat units, including those in Gaza and elsewhere in the northern part of Israel especially.

The announcement comes just a day after Israel said it would increase recruitment and call up air defense reserve forces. Tell us about this. I suspect it's because there is a lot of concern in Israel that Iran might decide now to retaliate militarily for Israel's airstrike against an Iranian consular building in Damascus?

RAVID: Exactly.

And I think it's more than a concern. It's almost -- Israeli officials almost treat this as a -- as a fact and are only waiting to see when the Iranian retaliation will happen and how exactly it will look like. And I think there's a lot of concern not only in Israel, but in the Biden administration, that this could be the moment where this conflict is becoming much, much bigger, something that the Biden administration managed more or less to contain, not completely.

We saw -- we see that there's fighting in Lebanon. We see that there's skirmishes on the border with Syria, obviously Yemen. But if Iran comes into this, to the picture, we're looking at a whole different conflict here. And I think this is what the Biden administration is hoping to prevent.

And I think it's going to be a prominent issue in the call between Biden and Netanyahu, and not only the issue of Gaza.

BLITZER: Yes, there's no doubt that the Israeli military is bracing for some sort of Iranian retaliatory strike, and then Israel would retaliate to that. This whole situation could escalate big time. It's an extremely dangerous situation unfolding in the Middle East right now.

Barak Ravid, thanks for your excellent reporting. We appreciate it very, very much.

And coming up: aftershocks and aftermath in Taiwan. Rescuers are racing right now against time to save people, a lot of people still trapped under the rubble, after the island's strongest earthquake in decades. A CNN report from Taiwan is next.

Plus: The New York judge at Donald Trump's hush money case is moving forward with this month's trial, denying yet another attempt by Trump's lawyers to delay the former president's case.

And, later, Caitlin Clark's mantel is filling up big time. She's won yet another major award just ahead of her team's appearance in the Final Four -- the latest on March Madness and the rise of women's basketball in the United States just ahead.

All that coming up. Stay with us. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[11:23:27]

BLITZER: Now to the situation in Taiwan, where the death toll from Wednesday's powerful earthquake has now risen to 10. More than 700 people remain stranded. This morning, we are seeing very shocking and disturbing video of what

happened as the island shook. This dashcam video shows boulders rolling downhill, crushing a vehicle, as others back away from the danger. CNN has not independently verified these images. And it is unclear now -- unclear how many people were in that vehicle or if anyone was hurt.

And take a look at this. Another shows nurses springing into action to protect newborn babies at a postpartum care center in Taipei. You see them gathering the kids together and hanging on to make sure they don't tip over. Thankfully, none of the babies were hurt.

CNN's Ivan Watson is in Taiwan for us. He's got more on the details of the aftermath of this earthquake.

Ivan, what are you seeing?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I'm speaking to you from the small city of Hualien.

And it's very close to the epicenter of the most powerful earthquake to hit Taiwan in a quarter-century, 7.4-magnitude on Wednesday morning. And that is an example of the sheer power of this tremor, this apartment building leaning precariously, with the authorities here getting ready to demolish the entire structure, as they have at least one other badly damaged building in this city.

[11:25:01]

It has been a deadly earthquake. It has killed at least 10 people, wounded more than 1,000, including the mayor of Hualien, who I met in a shelter for people, more than 100 people staying there tonight after the earthquake on Wednesday. He was on crutches after furniture fell on his foot in the earthquake.

But I want to show you something else, another view of the city. Take a look down this road. And you can see, it is lit up. The restaurants and the shops are working tonight. And far more interesting, I think, is that the buildings are standing here. They have clear structural integrity.

You have to look hard to find real damage from Wednesday's powerful earthquake. That may be in part because Taiwan is accustomed to earthquakes, and it has strengthened its building regulations. And this city, in particular, living next to a fault line, has protected itself.

So you see very little structural damage here and relatively low loss of life. The situation is different out in the mountains. That's where you have seen massive rockslides. And the authorities, they're still working to rescue hundreds of people who are stranded there. And that's where some people were killed by falling boulders.

But I think this reveals the resilience of Taiwan when it comes to one of the biggest threats that it faces. And that is these unpredictable earthquakes. Just in the last three hours, we have had at least 10 aftershocks here -- Wolf.

BLITZER: I'm worried about those aftershocks.

Ivan Watson in Taiwan for us.

Ivan, thank you very much, and stay safe over there.

Coming up: A federal judge condemns the -- quote -- "normalization" of the January 6 Capitol attack. Why he's also warning of a vicious cycle of anarchy.

Stay with us. We're live here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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