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CNN INTERNATIONAL: Biden, Netanyahu Speak After IDF Strike Kills 7 Aid Workers; Testimony Sheds New Light On U.S. Evacuation From Afghanistan; Trump Says He'll Make A Statement On Abortion "Next Week"; Judge Cannon Rejects Trump Bid To Dismiss Classified Docs Case; Thieves Steal $30 Million In Cash From Los Angeles Facility; NASA Launching Planes, Rockets Into Solar Eclipse Path. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired April 04, 2024 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:35]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It's 8:00 p.m. in London, 10:00 p.m. in Tel Aviv, 2:00 a.m. in Kabul, 3:00 p.m. here in Washington. I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.
And let's get right to the news.
We begin with the roughly 30-minute phone call between what sources say was an increasingly frustrated President Joe Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. That call focused on the IDF strikes that killed seven aid workers delivering desperately needed food in Gaza on Monday. The pressure on Biden to deliver not just forceful words, but an actionable consequence for Israel's deadly military failure appears to be at an all-time high.
The White House says he made clear to Netanyahu the strike was unacceptable and demanded, quote, specific concrete and measurable steps to prevent humanitarian suffering and to protect civilians and aid workers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: I'm not going to preview steps. I'm not going to preview decisions that haven't been made yet, but there are things that need to be done. There are too many civilians being killed. The risk to aid workers is unacceptable. And now, we have certain aid organizations that are reconsidering whether they're even going to be able to continue operations in Gaza, while famine looms.
So there has to be tangible steps. Let's see what they announced. Let's see what they direct. Let's see what they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Following all this, CNN White House correspondent Priscilla Alvarez.
And, Priscilla, strikes me looking at this, no consequences today. In effect, the White House giving Israel another chance here saying, if you don't do something now, then there might be consequences. Am I reading that correctly?
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, and they're giving a little bit of a timeline by saying that they expect to see that in hours and days, but they're not describing exactly how those changes are going to meet measured, or what exactly it is that they want Israel to change beyond allowing more humanitarian aid to get into Gaza and also further re-mitigation for the harm of innocent civilians and for humanitarian aid workers to be able to do their work and execute their mission. But it is a significant development, all the same that what the administration is saying here is that there could be changed on the horizon.
Up until this point, the U.S. has steadfastly supported Israel saying that it has the right to defend itself. They are still standing by that today, but they're alluding to potential changes in their own policy should there not be changes on the ground.
Secretary of State Antony Blinken put it bluntly earlier today
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: With regard to our policy in Gaza, look, just say this, if we don't see the changes that we need to see, there'll be changes in our own policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALVAREZ: Now, of course, this is a call that was scheduled after the death of those World Central Kitchen employees was an incident that the White House says really shook President Biden and it also fueled frustration and concern within the White House.
Now the two did talk about it today, but the White House said that they did not go into great detail and instead noting that Israel essential evaluating the investigation results, but, Jim, notable that the White House is now saying that there could be a policy change in how they approach Israel if there isn't changed on the ground. Of course, what exactly that looks like and what the us is expecting still remains a big question, but they are saying that anticipates something in hours and days.
SCIUTTO: Could be. We'll see. The Biden administration as you know, has been close to approving and $18 billion sale of F-15 fighter jets to Israel. The U.S. recently authorized the transfer of more than 1,500 pound bombs to Israel.
Is there any sense that those existing deals will not go through as a result of this call, are those going ahead?
ALVAREZ: Well, we have to break down each of these, when it comes to the F-15 sale, that still has a congressional process that it will have to go through. Now, as far as the other weapons that have been provided to Israel, those had been previously approved. And so, this is an execution of something that had already gotten the green light.
So up until now, it seems that all of this remains on track again, that F-15 sale could face some hurdles in Congress as there is also growing concern within the president's own party and questions over whether they should be conditioning this time of aid, but the message today, the resounding message is that there could be changes on the horizon. For example, the White House up until this point has dismissed conditioning any aid on Israel.
So the question is, does that change moving forward all of that still remains to be seen.
SCIUTTO: Priscilla Alvarez, thanks so much.
So for more on the call between President Biden and Prime Minister Netanyahu, I'm joined now by Israeli government spokesperson, Avi Hyman.
Thanks so much for taking the time.
AVI HYMAN, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: Thank you for having me on, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So you're aware the White House demand is for specific, concrete and measurable steps to address civilian harm, humanitarian suffering, and the safety of aid workers. Will Israel heed that demand and release such steps?
HYMAN: Jim, to my mind, Israel is already doing those things and improves those things every single day. According to the head of the Urban Warfare Studies Program at West Point, Israel is doing more than any army, has done in the history of modern warfare --
SCIUTTO: Sorry, sorry, a spokesperson for the IDF repeated that same single person yesterday. The U.S. president is saying, the strike was unacceptable, is now demanding concrete steps. I'm asking, will Israel take concrete steps or are you saying you're already doing enough today?
HYMAN: Oh, sorry. Then I misunderstood your question. If we're talking specifically about the accident that happened yesterday, definitely that is under investigation.
The prime minister said it was a mistake. The head of the IDF apologized for it openly, and that is being investigated and we will do our best to ensure that nothing like that happens in the future. That was a mistake.
I mean, the British army makes mistakes. The American army has made mistakes and they investigate them.
SCIUTTO: Okay. I want to get to the investigation in a moment because there's a question about the timeline of that. I'm asking specifically -- the U.S. president in a call to the Israeli prime minister, the office you represent, is demanding specific, concrete, measurable steps to address what he says is unacceptable threat to civilians and aid workers. Will the Israeli government take such steps?
HYMAN: Well, this is an unfolding story. The president has made his statements in a closed conversation with the prime minister. The prime minister is currently in a cabinet meeting with his cabinet, and I'm sure he will respond accordingly in due time.
But what I can tell you is that what hasn't changed clearly from what the president said, what hasn't changed clearly is that the American administration are committed to our war aims to destroy Hamas, to bring home the 134 hostages, men, women, children, babies held against their will, a crime against humanity, and to ensure that Gaza doesn't pose a threat to us. So we will continue along those lines.
As far as talk of a ceasefire is concerned, the Americans have been pretty clear from day one that a ceasefire without the hostages would not be acceptable. We've said that it wouldn't be acceptable and that was the American position from day one alongside with us, because if we were to give a ceasefire, they would rearm, they would reposition and they would do what they want to do.
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: But the U.S. president is demanding a ceasefire now, are you saying that the Israeli government is going to ignore that demand?
HYMAN: Well, I'm saying I don't want to speculate before the prime minister comes out of the cabinet meeting and makes his statements, having been on that phone call, I wasn't on that phone call. So I would say --
SCIUTTO: OK.
HYMAN: -- that we'll have to wait and see how that happens.
SCIUTTO: Help me clear up something then. An Israeli government spokesman said that the investigation into the strike on these World Control Kitchen workers will be available in the coming weeks. Yesterday, a spokesman for the IDF, Lieutenant Colonel Lerner, told me it will take days.
I want to play that comment and see if you can clear up, which is true. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. COL. PETE LERNER, IDF SPOKESPERSON: Our chief of staff, the IDF chief of staff, Lieutenant General Herzi Halevi said very clearly that it was a mistake, a misidentification, and that we need to investigate what transpired. The reality is one where the investigations are underway. We expect their conclusions in the next couple of days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Conclusions in that couple of days or weeks, which is it?
HYMAN: What I'm not sure what the other sound bite was because he didn't play it.
SCIUTTO: Well, I'm quoting a spokesperson for the Israeli government who said -- the direct quote is, results of investigations in the coming weeks.
HYMAN: Right. So I can only conclude that one was said before the other when the latter wasn't clear. But if --
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: But what's the answer, perhaps you -- you speak for the government. Is it days or weeks?
HYMAN: No, I'm saying if Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner said that it would be a number of days, it'll be a number of days.
SCIUTTO: Okay. I want to ask you about confidence here because I've spoken to aid workers and you've seen the public statements and you've seen the suspension of aid work in Gaza following this attack on the World Central Kitchen convoy, many of them saying they just don't trust IDF statements of safe passage.
[15:10:01]
And just in the last 24 hours, at least four Palestinian civilians were killed, including a paramedic, this after Israeli artillery fire targeted an area near a school, sheltering displaced civilians, the father of a pregnant woman in Rafah says that the pregnant woman and two children were killed in an airstrike in Rafah, just in the last 24 hours.
So as we see events like this, why should aid groups and why should people following this war closely believe that Israel is taking this pressure from the U.S. seriously as strikes that kill civilians continue?
HYMAN: With all due respect, we don't need pressure to avoid civilian casualties. It's what we do every day. It's part of our very ethos. It's part of our very DNA.
And that's why when the real numbers are assessed, you will see that Israel has gone out of its way to avoid civilian casualties. In fact, as my prime minister said, when you look at the ratio between combatants versus accidental civilian casualties, you'll see that Israel is according to the prime minister, less than a one-to-one ratio. Now --
SCIUTTO: Thirteen thousand children? You consider that an acceptable ratio?
HYMAN: These are Hamas figures. I don't see you --
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: They're not Hamas figures. U.S. intelligence assessments are quite similar to those figures. And, by the way, I'm just quoting you examples of where CNN spoke to the father of a pregnant woman. So, I'm not calling up Hamas to get that instance. We do our own reporting on the ground as well.
I'm just asking you if you consider that an acceptable loss of human life?
HYMAN: No civilian casualty on either side and I speak -- I speak as someone who is close to the conflict, who has lost people in this conflict. No civilian casualty is acceptable.
We don't seek any civilian casualties. But in every single war, since the creation of man, there have been civilian casualties in war. It is -- it is unavoidable, but we will do our utmost to avoid it.
And we have, our track record speaks for itself. It is better than any other army in the world. And not me speaking, that's experts -- the military experts around the world.
SCIUTTO: You're citing the same expert the IDF cited to me yesterday. I'm quoting the U.S. president.
But listen, you're welcome back on the program as we -- as the result of this investigation come back.
Avi Hyman, thanks so much.
HYMAN: Thanks for having me, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Joining me now to discuss, CNN global affairs analyst Kimberly Dozier, CNN military analyst, retired Army Major General James "Spider" Marks.
General Marks, you've -- you've been involved in U.S. wars abroad and Avi Hyman is correct that the U.S. has killed civilians and airstrikes and drawn reasonable criticism for doing so. You have the U.S. president here though, however, saying this is unacceptable, this strike on the World Central Kitchen and it clearly, the U.S. does not believe Israel is doing enough.
I just spoke to an Israeli government spokesman there who did not seem to be open to that criticism, right? Seemed to be pairing it. Do you see any movement, but by the Israeli government on this, despite pressure from its strongest, closest ally?
MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: We certainly need to see some type of movement. And I think the challenge was laid out in your discussion that just preceded this, which is the IDF has got a trust and confidence issue not only with those that are trying to provide aid but certainly in terms of the rest of the globe looking at how the IDF is prosecuting this.
The point I'm making is Hamas has got to be destroyed. We can put that smack dab in the middle of the table. And what needs to be done as they need to be rooted out. And leadership need to be found wherever they hide, and they need to be -- they need to be eliminated.
The challenge is, the IDF can come forward at this point, say, okay, we made a mistake and clearly, this is a mistake. This was not a targeted intentionally (AUDIO GAP). This was a grave mistake. This is incredibly unfortunate across the board and there are damages in this type of warfare. But the deal is the IDF needs to come forward and say, okay, let's
create a safe zone, let's create a no fire area. Let's protect in terms of creating routes times for distribution, lets establish what the procedures look like, and then lets established very specific points on the ground where distribution then needs to be handed off in a very specific way so that the aid workers are not, again, exposing themselves unnecessarily into the depths of this fight, where these kinds of conditions can take place irrespective of the coordination efforts that must take place.
So it really is a matter of trust at this point, if the IDF raised a hand. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't, that raised a hand at this point, said, we want to try to fix it. I don't know that they're going to have a very easy time doing that.
SCIUTTO: Kim Dozier, is there actually a marked change of the Biden administrations approach to this? It is certainly stronger language than we've heard from the U.S. president, unacceptable outraged, et cetera.
[15:15:05]
But it seems that the takeaway from the call today was, okay, now, you have to do something Israel. And if you don't, then there will be consequences.
Am I reading that right?
KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I think you are, but it makes sense in that this is the first time with this example that they've had this very clear cut situation where one part of the Israeli defense forces didn't seem to know what the other part of the IDF was doing. And you had a -- what I would call to the Israelis, a more credible victim. They don't trust the U.N. aid agency, that U.N. aid agency doesn't trust Israel.
But the World Central Kitchen has fed both Israelis and Gazans. And the IDF was increasingly leaning on them to get aid in there. So I think that's why you heard from Kirby today when he spoke from the White House briefing room, that the Biden administration expects to see some sort of announcement on changes in procedures in, quote, the coming hours or the coming days. They want Israel to come out and say, here's what we're changing.
And I think your interaction with the government spokesman shows a little bit of the difference in how the IDF is treating this versus how the Netanyahu government is treating this. The IDF is likely going to be much more direct. They've already said, we screwed up and I think we are going to hear details of how.
SCIUTTO: Such a good point you make that the World Central Kitchen by the way, served meals to both Palestinians and Israelis during the time of the war. It's a great point.
Spider, I wonder, if you see evidence that Israel has a command and control problem in Gaza because if you look at this strike if you look at, for instance, when IDF soldiers shot their own hostages who had escaped from Pales -- from Hamas captivity. They were waving white flags. They were shot.
And there are other instances and targeting where, listen, civilians have been killed and you wonder how much, how much they abided by, what at least, or the public rules, rules of engagement by the IDF. Is it possible this is a command issue on the ground and the soldiers aren't following those rules?
MARKS: Well, certainly could be. You would hope that would not be the case. Clearly, rule one in any form of combat is forced protection. If the individual soldier feels like he or she is at risk, you then have criteria to engage, and that includes positive identification and a command climate.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
MARKS: So I would not suggest that the Israeli, the IDF has a bunch of rogue units. Are their individual soldiers that could act inappropriately? Of course, I don't want to go. That's an aberration. That certainly takes place.
But I think in this particular case, what you have is in this very well-defined urban combat, which is described easily as unrecognizable to anybody who's never been in something like that before, it's chaotic, it's dirty, it's nasty. And things like this occur.
But if you raise the criteria for engagement up and up and up into the chain of command, you lose the ability to affect anything on the ground. That's the challenge.
You know, we have an old expression in the military. You never engage a target from the tactical operations center. You can't have a bunch of dudes hanging over a Mac in isolation saying, pull the trigger on this or pull the trigger on that. That's where you have a challenge. You've got to be able to establish what the criteria is for engagement and push that down as low as you can with a level of confidence is going to be -- that it's going to work.
SCIUTTO: It seems pretty low. I mean, in the last 24 hours, more civilians killed, those decisions still being made.
Kim Dozier, Major General Spider Marks, thanks so much to both of you.
DOZIER: Thanks.
SCIUTTO: Still to come, more on Biden's call with Netanyahu, as well as Russia's war in Ukraine.
I'm going to speak Democratic Congressman Adam Smith from Washington state about all of that. And that's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:22:05] SCIUTTO: We continue to cover the fallout from the phone call between U.S. President Joe Biden and the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu when we were told Biden delivered very strong words, the Israeli leader about what Israel needs to do now to prevent further civilian casualties.
Joining me now to discuss this and other issues, Democratic congressman from Washington state, Adam Smith, ranking member of the House Armed Services Committee.
Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time.
REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): Well, thanks for having me on, Jim. I appreciate it.
SCIUTTO: Just spoke to a spokesperson for the Israeli government about this demand from Biden to Netanyahu saying, Israel must now come out with a series of concrete, measurable steps to avoid further civilian casualties, further casualties, particularly among aid workers and reading his answers did not seem that there was a great deal of urgencies at least yet to answer that call.
And I wonder, do you believe that President Biden has applied enough pressure on Israel to limit civilian casualties allow more aid into Gaza
SMITH: Well, first of all, I think President Biden is taking the right approach in urging President Net -- Prime Minister Netanyahu, sorry. But to focus on, the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is enormous right now. And I think it's clear that Israel isn't doing enough to make sure that humanitarian assistance gets in. So, focusing attention on that I think is absolutely appropriate.
We go back to October 8th -- Israel was no food, no water, no nothing and they were reacting out of anger and I understand that on October 8th, six months later, it's clear that the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza is number one, a humanitarian catastrophe that we all ought to be concerned about. But number two is undermining Israel's ability to achieve its own security.
Now, to the specific question of whether or not President Biden is doing enough. What I think three according hasn't done enough of is to understand the balance that President Biden is trying to reach. Hamas is a threat. Israel is threatened also by Iran and Hezbollah deeply and profoundly.
How does Israel manage that threat? Most of the reporting I see just doesn't even talk about the role that Hamas this is playing in this.
SCIUTTO: Right.
SMITH: And the fact that there's a peace deal on the table -- sorry, a ceasefire deal on the table. I should that Israel has continually opt their side of it and Hamas has continually said no.
I think part of the reason for that, I mean, the U.N. hasn't even condemned Hamas. Hamas feels like there is no pressure on them whatsoever and no incentive for them to get to a ceasefire.
SCIUTTO: I understand that.
SMITH: Well, that's (AUDIO GAP) just trying to balance.
SCIUTTO: But we obviously hold an ally and a liberal democracy to a higher standard than we do a terror group. And the concern here is just the rising and almost unfathomable death toll among those in Gaza.
[15:25:06]
SMITH: Totally (ph).
SCIUTTO: And now you have a strike that kills aid workers. A close ally of President Biden, Democratic Senator Chris Coons, who I know, you know, well, he told CNN for the first time, he's open now to applying conditions to aid for Israel. I want you to have a listen and see what your responses to that idea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): I have said and others have said, if Benjamin Netanyahu, prime minister, were to order the IDF into Rafah at scale. They were to drop thousand pound bombs and send in a battalion to go after Hamas and make no provision for civilians or for humanitarian aid that I would vote to condition an aid to Israel. The challenge is to make it clear that we support the Israeli people, that we want to and will continue to have a strong and close relationship with Israel.
But that the tactics by which the current prime minister is making these decisions don't reflect the best values of Israel or of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: That's really the question there. Do you agree should Congress now condition aid to Israel on changes?
SMITH: Well, I want to make one thing perfectly clear. I totally agree with you that we should hold Israel to a higher standard absolutely than Hamas, that's not my point. My point is that if Hamas is not participating in it, then it's not really a successful ceasefire. And that's part of the challenge.
Yes, we should hold Israel to a higher standard. But what we want is a ceasefire that sticks. And if Hamas isn't willing to agree to it, and they attack and Israel is going to respond.
I will say to Senator Coons' point, I think we're getting to the point where yes, President Biden will have to apply greater pressure than he has and potentially that may mean conditioning some of the assistance that he has been giving because Israel is not doing enough to allow humanitarian assistance in. They are not doing enough to protect the humanitarian assistance that is in there as the incredible tragedy of the strike in the World -- I'm sorry, on the World Food Kitchen shows.
So yes, we have got to get Israel to change that aspect and that may require more pressure than is currently being applied. I don't disagree with that at all.
SCIUTTO: I want to move on to Ukraine because that's an issue you follow closely. But before I go just a political question -- do you believe that this issue, given the outrage from some in the Democratic Party against President Biden for his steadfast support for Israel, do you believe that he risks a political price for that support in this election?
SMITH: Well, look, if you are president, if you are the incumbent running for reelection, you face issues like this all day long, it's part of the challenge of being in a responsible position. Now, you've seen what, you know, the presumptive Republican nominee, Donald Trump, has had to say about this, you know? But, he's not responsible for anything.
So, yes, I mean, the president being in a responsible position on this issue, on Ukraine, on, gosh, thousand different things, it is a politically difficult thing to navigate, to govern effectively, to make the right decisions in the face of political pressure. So, yeah, no, it's going to be part of the challenge in this election that President Biden faces, no doubt.
SCIUTTO: Now on Ukraine, U.S., NATO -- U.S. and NATO officials are warning that Ukraine shortage of ammunition, military equipment is having an increasingly dire effect on the battlefield. And the fact is, they have been warning about this for months now and now the delay in U.S. aid is months long.
Do you see any concrete movement on unblocking funding? Do you have any confidence that the House Speaker Mike Johnson will actually bring something to the floor?
SMITH: I do have some confidence in the latter question at the moment. There has not been movement and look, what you have to understand here what Speaker Johnson wants to do. And he has said this publicly. He does not want to abandon Ukraine, but he wants to find a way to achieve that goal without causing more turmoil within his party.
That's going to be very difficult to achieve. That's why he's trying to come up with all of these other options for what an aid package might look like instead of doing what has to be done, which is to give us a vote on the Senate package that is already passed with 77 bipartisan votes in the Senate.
So Johnson is still imagining that there's some other solution. But as you've seen, even to this moment, no other option has been presented by the House Republicans. I think it is unlikely that they will be able to come up with one. The sooner he accepts that and gives us a vote on the Senate bill, that's when we get there, but that's the trap we're in right now. He said next week, so, hopefully next week, we'll be when we do get a vote. SCIUTTO: Goodness. And meanwhile, soldiers are dying on the battlefield, Ukrainians.
Congressman Adam Smith --
SMITH: It (AUDIO GAP) could not be more urgent.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
SMITH: Absolutely.
SCIUTTO: No question.
[15:30:00]
Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time.
SMITH: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: We are learning more about the chaotic final days of the U.S. military presence in Afghanistan. CNN exclusively obtained transcripts of testimony given by State Department officials to a congressional panel investigating the withdrawal. Thirteen U.S. service members killed during the final days and hours.
Jennifer Hansler covers the State Department for CNN. She is part of the team that broke the story.
Jennifer, tell us what these interviews reveal about preparations made or not made for the withdrawal.
JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT PRODUCER: Well, Jim, these documents really lay bare just how frenzied and chaotic and ad hoc this evacuation was in those final weeks of the U.S. presence in Afghanistan. These are interviews with three top State Department officials who were called in, in the days after the Taliban took over Kabul. They were called in from their jobs that had nothing to do with Afghanistan, to go help run this evacuation.
They said they were basically coming up with plans on the fly. One of them described creating tactical operations from scratch to try to get Americans, and these Afghan allies to the airport as the Taliban was putting up significant roadblocks to their access to that Hamid Karzai Airport.
Now, we know, Jim, that this had been a chaotic and deadly, and awful situation, but these new documents really just give these details even more texture there. They are talking about coming in with no established evacuation plan in place. Once they got on the ground, they're working around the clock to try to get these people out there working to establish plans and then re-established plans as those plans do not work. It really just goes to show how so much chaos there really was there. And this lack of preparation for what they described as an unprecedented event.
One of the top officials there, John Bass (ph), said that he isn't sure if it would have mattered if there had been a plan in place because this was just beyond the scale and complexity of what anyone could have imagined.
Now, you'll recall, Jim, that the State Department has come under fire from the U.S. military, from the top commanders who were in charge of the military at the time, saying it was a problem that they did not call for this noncombat in evacuation operations sooner. But these officials seem to indicate that they're not sure that would have had -- made any difference because there were so much fluidity and complexity on the ground there.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
HANSLER: So it's just really remarkable to see these experiences.
SCIUTTO: Listen, there were folks in the administration who were warning of the dangers -- General Mark Milley among them.
Jennie Hansler, thanks so much.
We are following the latest on the aftermath of the massive earthquake in Taiwan as rescue operations continue there. Officials said the death toll has now risen to ten people. More than 1,000 injured, hundreds more though are trapped or stranded, in some cases damaged and tilting buildings remain a threat.
Firefighters say they have used blasting equipment as well as special teams to pull people out of buildings still trapped there. You can see one there.
There's more dramatic video during that quake. This dashcam video shows giant boulders crashing down onto a highway from a hillside. The car was able to act quickly, get out of danger -- goodness, like out of a movie.
And take a look at these powerful images from the very moment the earthquake struck. These are medical staff desperately trying to protect newborn babies at a center in the middle of Taipei. Amazing pictures.
When we come back, for months, former President Trump has avoided taking a clear position on an extremely critical issue with many voters -- abortion. Now, he is teasing an announcement is coming. Were going to have new reporting on what some of Trumps closest allies want him to say. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:37:10]
SCIUTTO: More than a quarter of American cited abortion as their top issue in the 2022 midterm elections, the first national election since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. Since then, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, former President Trump, has both bragged about appointing the justices responsible for overturning Roe and called Republican efforts to restrict abortion at the state level a, quote, terrible mistake.
So what exactly is his position on this key issue? Trump hinted to reporters that he will have some sort of announcement coming. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, do you support the six-week abortion ban that the Florida Supreme Court just upheld?
(BOOS)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will be making a statement next week on abortion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Statement next week on abortion. So what will it be?
CNN's Kristen Holmes follows the Trump campaign. She joins me now.
Kristen, do we know what his position will be or what he'll say his position is?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right now we don't because he's been floating so many different variations of what his ideas are going to be. He is routinely incredibly vague when it comes to abortion. One of the things that we have reported on this, it's one of the topic -- toughest topics for him in this third campaign.
The reason being that he wants to both take credit for the overturning of Roe versus Wade, but also not have any of the repercussions of what that means, particularly Democrats running on abortion and reproductive rights because he knows that is it is -- it is, and this is something he said in private, a quote-unquote, political loser. He thinks that's why Republicans lost in 2022 and he thinks anyone who campaigns solely on abortion is going to have a hard time.
So what we do know is that when he made that announcement, he'd be giving a statement that surprised even some of his closest advisers who did not know that they were going to be putting out a statement. We also know that he's been in various conversations and debates privately over what exactly he would say if he did have to take a permanent, indefinite stand on abortion. One of the things he has been talking two different advisors about is whether or not he should back a national abortion ban. He has floated the idea of backing a 15 week abortion ban.
There are a lot of people on the right side of Donald Trump who believed that is what he should do. Now, on the other side, there are a lot of people who think you shouldn't weigh in at all. He should pump this to the states, that it is better politically for him to get out of this as a national issue to say its states rights, that's what we were fighting for this whole time.
Donald Trump has said both of these things -- that he supports both of these are could support both of these in private. The question, of course, is what you will come out and say when it's going to be him on the record giving his stance on abortion.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. I mean, the fact is he asked to have a state. You can't fudge this one. He has avoided it deliberately.
Why now?
HOLMES: Basically because he came out and said he was going to give a statement next week.
[15:40:01]
That's why he's going to do it right now.
But, look, his team says, this is just as good of a moment as any. At some point, he was going to have to before the general election really got into full swing come out and say where he stood on abortion. By all means, intents, and purposes, this is the time.
He can do it right now. So that's why they're doing it. They don't know what its going to look like. We don't even know if it's going be an event, a paper statement, a video. But they are talking behind the scenes to how exactly to roll this out because they do think that he has to happen a definitive stance when it comes to abortion.
SCIUTTO: We'll see.
Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.
We do have a breaking news in one of the criminal cases against Trump. And Florida Judge Aileen Cannon rejected a Trump motion to dismiss the charges in the classified documents case there. However, she has yet to set a trial date.
With me now, Katelyn Polantz who covers this closely.
So she's not going to dismiss the case, but she's been accused of stretching this out, making it unlikely that there's any trial before the election. Has that -- has that changed?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR REPORTER, CRIME AND JUSTICE: Well, there is a ruling today that were getting from Judge Cannon in one of the things that she hadn't ruled out on yet that had been argued before her. We still don't have that trial date that was 34 days ago that both sides went to court and asked her to put different dates on the calendar, nothing there.
But in this request that Trump's team had made in court, they had argued to her that he should be able to claim records he took from the White House as personal and thus the whole case against him, those 32 records he's accused of mishandling because they are national security and/or classified records, that those charges should be dismissed. Judge Cannon says she's not going to do that.
But she doesn't even give a full opinion here. This is a barely a three-page order from the judge. It's two pages and about two lines onto a third page.
It doesn't get into the full legal reasoning around the Presidential Records Act, the arguments that Trump's team is making here, and she says, hey, I might want to revisit this at a later date. It is something we could talk about later in this case, as we continue our preparations for trial.
SCIUTTO: Okay. So I wonder where that leaves -- leaves the possible -- I mean, is there any time limit by which she has to set the date, or is it basically up to the judge?
POLANTZ: She's a federal judge, so she can do a lot of things in this context, especially in a criminal case. But the special counsel's office, the prosecutors from the Justice Department, they've been quite clear that they think that this is a thought experiment that is out of line, and that they don't want this question over personal records, the Presidential Records Act to get kicked down the road until the jury comes in. They think that's too late. They want to potentially be able to appeal if they lose before her on this.
But she has some strong words for them and says don't interpret this as anything other than what it was, what I'm doing here, a genuine attempt in the context of an upcoming trial to better understand the parties' competing positions. She also says that what the special counsel's office wanted her to do here, which is resolve this question soon is unprecedented and unjust.
SCIUTTO: Katelyn Polantz, you might say it's a question relevant to the overall case. I know you'll continue to follow.
When we come back, the robbery in Los Angeles, thieves got away with millions of dollars in cash. We're going to have a look at the investigation, coming up.
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SCIUTTO: Police in Los Angeles are investigating one of the largest cash heist in the city's history. Thieves stole as much as $30 million from Los Angeles money storage facility on Easter Sunday, no less. A burglary crew broke through the roof of the facility, which avoided setting off the alarm system.
CNN's Josh Campbell is here with the details.
Josh, it sounds like a pretty well-planned heist. I mean, how do they manage to get away with this?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. My friend, you know, it actually sounds like something that could be out of a movie script written here in Hollywood. But this highest, in fact, real as much as $30 million taken over the weekend, that according to a law enforcement source I spoke to who was briefed on the investigation.
Now I'm told that this occurred, as you mentioned, on Sunday, on Easter Sunday, but authorities didn't discover it until the next day. I'm told that at this hour, they were investigating this group, which they believe is sophisticated in nature because they were able to pull off this heist without setting off any type of alarms in that building, making their way inside the vault and then carting out all of this money.
I'm told that one key focus of the investigation right now pertains to whether they may have had some type of inside knowledge of this building. Authorities conducting interviews according to a law enforcement source. They're also going in around the area trying to gather any type of surveillance footage just to try to identify the root of travel of this group, both to the facility, then obviously, once they left.
But a very, very serious situation here, as you mentioned, as much as $30 million now gone from this business.
SCIUTTO: So next question, I mean -- is the money traceable in any way? Would it be from a facility like this? And who does this facility store money for?
CAMPBELL: Yeah. It's a great question. So this company in question is called Gardaworld. They are private security firm. Basically, they process money on behalf of businesses in and around the L.A. area and they're supposed to be highly protected. Obviously, a major, major concern here.
Now as far as the money itself, I'm told investigators are looking to see whether that money is in fact traceable. The problem is, is that as they've seen in past heist, sometimes this money can be laundered, you know, especially this amount of money raises the question about where it goes and how they're actually able to, in fact, trace it.
As far as the suspects, I'm told that everything's on the table. They've seen cartels do this. They've seen a professional criminal groups, but they've also seen not so professional criminals groups.
Here in L.A., back in 1997, the second largest heist that we saw, there was a group that stole from an armored car about $20 million. They got away with it for a couple of years, until one of those crew members actually tried to buy a home with a stack of cash that actually had the same band around the cash from one of a stolen.
A realtor looked at that and said, well, this is suspicious, called authorities. He was rolled up, the whole group is rolled up. So, you know, sometimes groups more sophisticated than others. Right now, though, no indication of who this specific group was.
SCIUTTO: Wow.
Okay. We know you'll follow it. Josh Campbell, thanks so much.
CAMPBELL: You bet
SCIUTTO: Still to come, why is NASA launching rockets into the path of this solar eclipse next week? For science, of course. We're going to have details, next.
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[15:52:11]
SCIUTTO: We are just four days away from the solar eclipse that will sweep across Mexico, the U.S., and Canada. Totality, when the moon will entirely block out the sun will occur along a more than 100 mile wide path from Texas to Maine here in the U.S.
While millions will be watching the eclipse, NASA, is going to be studying it. Space agency will send up high altitude aircraft and launch three rockets to conduct research that CNN, the candidate can only be done during an eclipse.
For more on what NASA hopes to learn from that eclipse, we're joined by Nikki Fox, associate administrator of NASA Science Mission Directorate.
Thanks so much for joining us.
NICOLA FOX, ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR OF NASA'S SCIENCE MISSION DIRECTORATE: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: So eclipses happen. It happened before, I wonder why this eclipse is a special moment for NASA
FOX: So, this is -- I mean, any eclipse honestly is a great opportunity for us to study science. We're very excited about this one because the actual totality, the duration of totality is over a minute longer than the one that we had in 2017. So that gives us just that little bit more time to do this great science.
And also, it's all 48 contiguous U.S. states will actually experience some form of the eclipse, you know, partial eclipse. So, it's just a really exciting time for us.
SCIUTTO: So tell us what specifically what kinds of things can you study best during an eclipse?
FOX: So the obvious one, of course, is the sun's corona. And you may think, well, you can block out the light of the sun on an instrument and study that 24/7. But when we can actually get mine much closer to the edge, so we can really see down into the photosphere and down into the chromosphere, and these -- these layers that are very hard for us to normally study.
And that's why we have cameras flying on planes, on NASA planes, so we can allow us to chase it, gives them a long then even the four minutes and 25 seconds that we'll experience here, they actually chase along the path of the eclipse. And so they can study the corona for the whole time.
SCIUTTO: And I imagine since weathers a concern for some parts of the countries, you get up above the weather, too. Is that part of the calculation? FOX: Yes, absolutely. That's why we wanted on a couple of reasons.
One, yes, you're above the clouds, but also their ability to fly with the eclipse, to really increase that time. And even if it's cloudy, we still, as you noted, we will be launching three sounding rockets.
And that's to allow us to look at the atmosphere and how that changes during an eclipse because you don't have that sort of gradual going from day to night that we have every day, it's literally like the sun switches off and it gives us a chance to look at how the atmosphere changes during an eclipse.
[15:55:03]
And clearly, we can only do that during an eclipse. So were excited about launching these three rockets, one before totality, one kind of during it, and then one right after two compare the different conditions.
SCIUTTO: And I imagine those pilots have to take all the precautions, maybe even more than we do on the ground if they're ever going to be looking in the direction of the eclipse.
FOX: Yes. They would definitely -- safety is our number one priority. And so, we were very keen on making sure nobody looks at the sun until we actually get to totality. So, if you are going to experience a total solar eclipse, once the sun completely disappears and you only see sort of blackness through those glasses, take them off and just enjoy the spectacle of the corona shining out.
SCIUTTO: Oh, that's good to know. Okay. I didn't actually know that difference.
Well, let's hope the weather cooperates for those on the ground next week.
Nikki Fox, thanks so much for joining us.
FOX: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Well, thanks so much to all of you for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.
