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IDF Blames Mistaken Identification for Strike on Aid Workers; Israel to Open Erez Crossing, Port of Ashdod for Aid. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 05, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin with new developments out of Israel, where the Israeli military has released a preliminary report on its killing of seven aid workers in Gaza. The investigation finds a series of devastating mistakes unfolded earlier this week when three vehicles carrying the World Central Kitchen workers traveled outside the combat zone. Those vehicles were hit in three separate strikes over the course of almost a mile-and-a-half.

Israel says it was a case of mistaken identification after two gunmen were spotted nearby. Quoting from the report, one of the commanders, the Israelis say, mistakenly assumed that the gunman were located inside the accompanying vehicles and that these were Hamas terrorists. The IDF has fired two senior officers.

I want to bring in CNN's Nic Robertson, our international diplomatic editor. Nic, does the report answer all the questions?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It still seems to leave some questions outstanding. For example, the World Central Kitchen has said that they were in coordination with the IDF, that they were following the protocols that the IDF outlines for them to do.

So, in which case, why does the IDF report say that their commanders in charge of firing at these three SUVs, why did they not understand that these SUVs were associated with the World Central Kitchen. Well, the initial indications from the IDF indicate that this was happening at night and they couldn't see the identification on the vehicles, but that doesn't really get to that central issue. If there was coordination, why did they not realize it? How would they sort of team those pieces of information up?

Another point that doesn't seem to be answered is, if the IDF had spotted gunmen on the trucks, the aid trucks, these are the big trucks, before they went into the convoy, how can they link the SUVs carrying the aid workers later on specifically with Hamas?

Now, the IDF's separate briefing to reporters, they said they thought they'd spotted something that looked like a weapon over the shoulder of one of the people in those vehicles that they later decided was actually a bag. So, it doesn't -- there's that piece of detail that hasn't been fully explained.

The IDF has said that what happened, happened outside of their rules of engagement, which is why they're disciplined officials, but we don't know what the IDF's rules of engagements are. They don't make those public, and they have said the rules of the engagement change in different situations. So there's still a lot of questions to be answered here, Jim.

ACOSTA: And, Nic, just a quick follow-up, how is the World Central Kitchen responding?

ROBERTSON: Yes. They're saying, look, the fact that the IDF has accepted responsibility, has said that they were following the protocols that they should have been following, the fact that the IDF has taken disciplinary action against a major and a colonel, reserve colonel, they say, is a step. But for these outrageous killings, they say the report so far is cold comfort.

Plus, the World Central Kitchen say they were shown a video by the IDF that was intended to support what the IDF has talked about gunman on the trucks. The World's Central Kitchen say the video that they've seen, that they'd been shown, how they been showing it so far, it's not -- they can't see what the IDF is telling them in that about the gunman. They don't get it. So they don't think the videos explanation of what's in the report either.

ACOSTA: All right. Nic Robertson, thank you very much. We really appreciate it.

And joining us now is Tal Heinrich, spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Tal, thank you very much for being here.

[10:05:01]

How do you respond to the criticism that this report does not fully explain what happened?

TAL HEINRICH, SPOKESWOMAN FOR ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU: Well, thank you for having me on this morning, Jim.

I think this was a preliminary report, a preliminary assessment, and we will have to wait for the final findings of this investigation. You see this will -- I think it's a matter of days, weeks, it is not a matter of months.

And, you know, when we do something wrong, when there's mistake made on our behalf on Israel's side, we take responsibility. We say the truth. We admit things even when it's the most painful, inconvenient truth to admit, and I think people have to remember that. That was a very, very tragic incident involving the unsung heroes of World Central Kitchen, as one of my colleagues calls them, unsung heroes of armed conflict. It should not have happened. And we should draw the right conclusions and implement lessons in order for this not to reoccur.

And already, I can tell you that we've set up a situation room for better coordination between the IDF and these aid groups on the ground because they're doing the all-important work.

And this specific organization, by the way, they were one of the first ones to show up right after October 7th, being there on the ground helping civilians on both sides of the border.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Tal, I mean, the convoy was marked with the logos of the World Central Kitchen and World Central Kitchen says it was coordinating its movements with the IDF. How could your forces make such a grave mistake as your government has describe it?

HEINRICH: Well, mistakes -- you see mistakes. Tragedies happen during wars. And it's not a war that we wanted. It's not a war that we started. You and I would not have been having this conversation if Hamas had not invaded our country with their army of terrorists on October 7th. That is very, very unfortunate.

But you know and you covered conflicts around the world, I believe, where U.S. forces have been involved. And mistakes, tragically, yes, they do happen, but we have to draw the right lessons to make sure that they don't happen again.

ACOSTA: And I do want to ask you about the humanitarian corridors that are being opened up. Your government has announced that in a phone call yesterday. President Biden, though, did deliver a stark warning to the prime minister saying, taking -- they need to take steps, the Israelis, to ease the humanitarian crisis in Gaza or risk losing U.S. support.

And I did want to ask you a specific question about that. Is Israel pledging to not only open up these corridors that you've announced, but also to assure that they are safe enough for aid workers to do what they do? Are you going to make that pledge?

HEINRICH: Well, you see -- let me first list the number of steps that we have decided upon. A war cabinet convened yesterday, and at the end of the meeting, a few more steps were announced. We decided that we will enable the temporary insertion of humanitarian aid through the maritime ports in Ashdod, the Erez Border Crossing, which is a pedestrian crossing in the northern part of the Gaza Strip. And it was stormed by these terrorists on October 7th, as well as an increase of Jordanian aid, the humanitarian assistance that will continue to be facilitated via Kerem Shalom.

I think it's important for viewers to understand that there are more food trucks entering Gaza now daily than before the war. So, aid is flowing into Gaza, and, you know, 240 trucks a day, yesterday, the day before, a couple hundred trucks every day. We're talking about more than a quarter million tons of food just --

ACOSTA: Right. But my question is about the safety of these workers. And nearly 200 humanitarian aid workers have been killed in Gaza since the war began. Has Israel had a policy of shooting first and asking questions later?

HEINRICH: I don't know about the -- again, I don't know about these numbers. I don't know about these numbers. I don't know where you are taking them from. But, again, I don't these numbers. These are numbers that are coming from Gaza, which I take with a grain of salt.

But, again specifically talking about this incident, we should do everything in our power to make sure that anything -- nothing of this kind will ever be our course. So, this is why we set up the situation room for better coordination.

And, of course, there's a lot of focus on that too because, you know, you mentioned the phone call. Washington and Jerusalem, we do want the same things. We want to see Hamas eliminated. We want to all hostages returning home and in Gaza that will never pose a terror threat to Israel again.

And while we're working towards these goals, we want to see minimal civilian suffering, minimal collateral damage in Gaza, which -- these are two things that Hamas --

ACOSTA: Would you say that there has been minimal civilian -- Tal, would you say that there -- I mean, just objectively speaking, there hasn't been minimal civilian suffering. There's been great civilian suffering. Isn't that right?

HEINRICH: Well, this is a war that we didn't start and we didn't want. And the civilian suffering -- you missed the second part of my sentence, that these are two things that Hamas continuously seeks to increase.

[10:10:07]

Because this is what their entire strategy, Jim, and you know it very well it is based upon. They hope that Israel will take the fire for their vile actions and that the international pressure will be used as leverage on Israel instead of on them and let them another day to carry out another October 7th massacre.

ACOSTA: Yes, I hear what you're saying, and we have covered all of that extensively. But you have said and your government has said you want to make sure Hamas never rules again in Gaza.

I do want to ask you if you can explain the fact that your government allowed the funding of Hamas for years. We can show our viewers this story in The New York Times. It says, quote, for years, the Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month into the Gaza Strip, money that helped prop up the Hamas government.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them. Shouldn't the prime minister be held accountable for encouraging the funding of Hamas?

HEINRICH: Let's set the record straight here. Money that went into Gaza, if it's from the Palestinian Authority, if it's money from Qatar, was meant for the benefit of the civilians of Gaza. There is no illusion in Israel, not of the prime minister, not of anyone. And there was no illusion about Hamas even prior to October 7th. The prime minister in 2005, he resigned after the Gaza Disengagement Act. And back then, he said that --

ACOSTA: Well, if Hamas was running Gaza, he had to know that the money was going to go to --

HEINRICH: It was the first one to prepare (ph) Hamas with ISIS.

ACOSTA: But if Hamas was -- Tal, if Hamas was running Gaza, then he had to know that money was essentially flowing to Hamas, whether it was going to go to civilians or whatever.

HEINRICH: Let me -- I hear you're concerned about money from Qatar, but let's talk about U.S. taxpayer money that went to the Palestinians throughout the years, went to UNRWA and eventually ended up inciting terror and building these terror tunnels as well as the terror infrastructure.

ACOSTA: Are you blaming the United States?

HEINRICH: Moving forward, I think we have to focus on that.

ACOSTA: Are you blaming the United States?

HEINRICH: I think that the lessons of the past teach us --

ACOSTA: Is that what you're -- are you saying --

HEINRICH: Of course not. But I'm just saying that --

ACOSTA: Right. Well, I'm asking you about the prime minister authorizing this money going to Hamas, essentially. And shouldn't there be accountability for that?

HEINRICH: I'm talking about the general notion here that any kind of money that was meant to the benefit of the Palestinian people, no matter where it came from, eventually went to funding terrorism and inciting the murdering of the Jewish people and --

ACOSTA: Didn't the prime minister know who Hamas was?

HEINRICH: (INAUDIBLE).

ACOSTA: Did he make a bad bet?

HEINRICH: What? Say it again.

ACOSTA: Did he make a bad bet? He knew who Hamas was. He knew they were capable of this. There were warnings to your government prior to October 7th that were ignored. HEINRICH: Jim, this is why I was saying that, moving forward, learning from past mistakes, we should all demand that any kind of reconstruction of Gaza should be intertwined with de-radicalization of the Palestinian society because we can't have money going to fund terrorism again.

ACOSTA: All right. Tal Heinrich, I hope we can continue this discussion. Thank you very much for your time this morning. We appreciate it.

HEINRICH: Thank you.

ACOSTA: And I want to discuss more now with CNN Military Analyst and retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. He's the former commanding general of the U.S. Army Europe and 7th Army. General Hertling, Thanks so much for being with us.

I do want to try, if we can, to get to the bottom of how this happened. And I know we can't do it in this hour, but let's give it a try. I want to put up a map we were showing to our viewers yesterday of the strikes on the three World Central Kitchen vehicles.

These vehicles were almost a mile-and-a-half apart. One clearly had a bright World Central Kitchen logo on the top of the car, although the IDF says they couldn't see it because it was dark. A weapons expert told CNN that the operation would have included use of a surveillance drone.

General, the IDF is saying that they misidentified these vehicles as being associated with Hamas because of, based on, quote, gunmen that they thought they saw around these vehicles. What do you make of the explanations you're hearing so far from the Israeli government about this?

GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: A couple of things, Jim. First of all, Ms. Heinrich is correct, and this is the first time I've heard this, that this is a preliminary report. I said yesterday that if the Israeli government was going to put out a complete report on this incident within days, it was probably going to miss quite a few things, and she clarified that.

The comment about the markings of the World Central Kitchen vehicles on the top and on the sides, you know, I disagree with your expert who says that a surveillance drone should have picked that up. You don't pick up anything like that at nighttime with a surveillance drone or an aircraft.

[10:15:03]

So, you know, that is -- there's been a lot made of that. It's really even difficult to see those kind of markings during a day by a jet or a drone. It's just too much of an instance and too small of a marking.

Having said that, though, you can take a look at the destruction of the vehicles, those were, in my view, 99 percent sure they were conducted by a drone strike because of indicators, like a hole in the roof as opposed to an explosion, which would have caused the vehicle to completely be destroyed and thrown off the side of the road. There was a hole in the roof and then it burned inside. That tells me it was a low yield weapon meant to assassinate who was ever inside those vehicles. It's a different kind of weapon.

Thirdly, you know, the distance that's being cited, the 1.4 to 1.8 kilometers that the convoy traveled, that's understandable if this was truly a target. I said yesterday, Jim, that, you know, having run targeting cells that actually go after terrorists like that, you look at a couple of things.

You look at it -- first of all, the cell is going to look at the intelligence they receive, the type of target it's going to be, how fast they have to engage the target. And then there's the communication between the lawyers that are checking it out, the targeteers, the intelligence people, the commanders that say, pull the trigger and then the process of actually having the weapon hit whatever it's aimed at.

So, all of those areas have the potential for dysfunction. And, you know, that's the problem with looking into something like this.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, General, I mean, World Central Kitchen also said they were coordinating their movements with the IDF. I mean, do those de-confliction heads-ups, I guess you could call them, do they go far enough?

HERTLING: Yes. Well, they certainly should, Jim. And, again, with experience, I had organizations, non-governmental organizations that coordinated with my headquarters in combat that said, here's what we're going to do. And you watch those closely, or you should.

I don't know what the disconnect was. Again, it has to do with either the intelligence, the targeteers, or the coordination of the actual movement. In those movements, you also have to say, we're going to be here to there during this certain amount of time. So, if there's any delay in that, or if there are indicators that a non-government organization has terrorists within the convoy, then it kind of opens up the aperture a little bit on how you judge it.

All of those things, as Ms. Heinrich says, are elements of combat. But, unfortunately, this one was somewhat dramatic, and it should be investigated to its fullest, along with some of the other strikes that Israel has conducted.

ACOSTA: And just very quickly to follow up in the dismissals of these two commanders, does that go far enough, do you think?

HERTLING: No, I don't think so. But, again, I don't know what the investigation shows. This is more than just decision-making.

As I said, the different processes of a targeting cell, from intel collection, to targeting, to coordination, to lawyers saying something yes or no, then the commander saying to pull the trigger. There could have been disconnects in any one of those processes. I just don't know. And, again, this is why I said a report like this, an inquiry into a strike like this, doesn't take a couple of days to conduct. It takes, as Ms. Heinrich says, probably weeks to really determine the different elements that contributed to this. And I would suggest there was probably more that are culpable in this particular attack.

ACOSTA: All right. General Mark Hertling, I wish we had more time, but we'll bring you back and continue this conversation. General, thanks a lot for the time this morning. I appreciate it.

HERTLING: I appreciate it.

ACOSTA: All right. Our coverage of the fallout of the IDF report on the World Central Kitchen strike continues. I'll be joined by Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro of Texas. He sits on the Intelligence and Foreign Affairs Committees to get his take on all of this. That's next.

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ACOSTA: We are continuing to follow the latest out of Israel. The IDF says it has fired two of its officers after investigating the strikes that killed seven aid workers earlier this week. Israel is blaming the strikes on, quote, mistaken identification.

Let's discuss more now with Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro of Texas. He serves on the House Intelligence and Foreign Affairs Committees. Congressman, good morning. Thanks so much.

As you know, the White House, it does appear that they were able to extract something from the Israelis. There's going to be the opening of this Erez Crossing. Does that go far enough? Did the White House get enough out of the Israelis after this terrible tragedy earlier this week?

REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D-TX): I'm glad to see that President Biden has gotten tougher with Prime Minister Netanyahu and his cabinet and his administration. And the opening of that Erez Crossing is important for humanitarian assistance.

But to your question about whether it goes far enough, it clearly doesn't. And I had called early on in October for a ceasefire, October 17th, myself along with several others, because both in classified and unclassified briefings, I saw what was becoming clear, two things. First, Israel's actions were not leading to the release of hostages. In fact, that didn't happen until there was a temporary ceasefire. And so a ceasefire actually worked to get hostages released.

But also, it was becoming clear that there was intentional denial of humanitarian aid. And to put a greater point on it, they were intentionally starting people. And there was also what looked like the development of indiscriminate targeting of Palestinians in Gaza.

[10:25:04]

And that has happened throughout the months, ambulances, ambulance convoys, hospitals, civilians. We saw some of that footage that was released of civilians being targeted.

And now all of this is crystallized in the tragedy of the World Central Kitchen aid workers being killed either indiscriminately, and I certainly hope not intentionally. But there's got to be a full investigation and an independent investigation on exactly what happened.

ACOSTA: Yes. Congressman, I did want to ask you about that. I mean, the IDF is blaming this on mistaken identification. But, you know, when you talk to the folks over at the World Central Kitchen, and they've been saying this pretty loudly since what took place, they had logos on their vehicles. They were coordinating with the IDF. Do you -- are you buying the explanations that are coming out of the IDF right now?

CASTOR: I think when you consider it in the larger context of how the IDF has acted and how they have treated Palestinians in terms of indiscriminate targeting, it becomes very difficult to believe, especially when World Central Kitchen and Jose Andres, it's a well- known organization that has worked in hostile places before, that is used to coordinating with governments. And so it's so hard to believe that they were somehow mistaken for another group. But that's why you need an independent investigation.

ACOSTA: And, Congressman, just a few moments ago, I was speaking with a spokeswoman for the Israeli government, and she appeared to put some of the blame on the United States for delivering assistance to the Palestinians over the years, even though the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, it's been reported by numerous outlets, had authorized money to flow from the Qataris to Hamas for a while before October 7th, for years it's been described in some reporting. And it's -- you know, the Israeli government seems to be saying well the United States had a hand in this too because they were supporting Palestinians in Gaza. What did you think of that?

CASTRO: Yes. I mean, I disagree. And the United States' priorities when it comes to Israel and Gaza or Palestinians have been a few things. First, peace and stability in the region, second, for the Palestinians, at least, we wanted to make sure that they had enough humanitarian aid, and that requires resources in order to do You don't want people starving en masse. You don't want people dying of dehydration over the years. And so we have helped provide that.

But we've also, in our policies over the years, tried to move both sides, going back to the table and agreeing to a two-state solution. Obviously, that has failed because we're not anywhere right now near a two-state solution. But that's the spirit that the United States has operated in.

And I got a chance to hear a part of your interview and your questions about Prime Minister Netanyahu, and allowing the money from the Qataris. And, you know, one of the things that Prime Minister Netanyahu has done is he's made statements for instance since the 1970s about being against a two-state solution. And so he was often playing Hamas against the Palestinian Authority so that neither one would have the political power or support to really demand and call for and make happen a two-state solution.

And so, yes, I think the United States has to play a lead role in getting these sides back to the table, and I know that Director Burns the CIA and others have been working on this, but get them back towards that two-state solution, if that is possible.

ACOSTA: All right. Congressman Joaquin Castro, thank you very much. I hope to have you back soon. A lot of other issues we want to tackle, but time is tight. But thanks for your time. We appreciate it.

CASTRO: Good to be with you.

We'll be right back. Thank you.

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