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CNN International: Biden: U.S. Ties With Japan "Have Never Been More Robust"; President Biden: What Netanyahu Is Doing Is A "Mistake"; Zelensky: If Ukraine Doesn't Get Weapons, It Could Lose The War; Gas And Housing Prices Drove U.S. Inflation Higher In March; Arizona Court Decision Reshapes Abortion Debate. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired April 10, 2024 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:44]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: It's 8:00 p.m. in London, 10:00 p.m. in Jerusalem, 4:00 a.m. in Tokyo, 3:00 p.m. here in Washington. I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.
And let's get right to the news.
President Joe Biden is hosting Japan's prime minister at the White House today, a critical meeting of allies with a shared goal of countering China. That common goal includes deepening U.S.-Japanese military cooperation and defense production, as well as boosting trade, student exchanges as well between the two countries, and even helping Japan land the first astronaut, not American on the moon.
In a joint conference, news conference, President Biden celebrated their partnership.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I became president, and I said that the United States would rebuild the muscle of our democratic alliances. And we stand shoulder to shoulder their allies again, because our alliances are America's greatest asset. And the relationship with Japan is powerful proof of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: CNN Senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak is at the White House with more.
So, Kevin, tell us about this visit and the goal here, in part to stand up to China, but in part, is it not, to lock in a key U.S. defense alliance prior to the November election?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, I think both of those things are the subtext for this very ceremonial visit that President Biden is holding for the Prime Minister Kishida, and you saw in the events that they've held this morning, the ceremonial arrival, the meeting in the Oval Office and the press conference, each of them, the leaders talked about this relationship as one of the future of trying to bring this relationship to a new level. And I think you can read into that this desire to make permanent some of these aspects that they're announcing today in the defense side sector, in the economic sector to try and sort of future proof this alliance should Donald Trump returned to the White House.
And when you talk to officials and we've been talking to them over the course of the last several days, they do acknowledge this anxiety in Tokyo and other capitals about what American foreign policy might look like if Trump is to return to the White House. There is a real, you know, caution about what that might portend when it comes to these alliances, the bilateral alliances, but also these arrangements like AUKUS, that the U.S. has arranged in Asia to try and counter China.
And so what you see President Biden doing is trying to cement some of these ideas. So for example, today they are announcing this new joint defense counsel to talk about how the U.S. and Japanese militaries can better integrate, better work together going forward, you hear them talk about boosting the defense industrial base, trying to utilize Japan's capacity to help on that front.
So I think it is really important on both of those things, China and the Trump risk, I guess you could call it, that these two liters wanted to discuss and it was interesting in the press conference, President Biden did say very explicitly, this is a defensive alliance that its not based on one particular country, but certainly every official you talked to talks about this goal of trying to counter Beijing in an ever more restive region. And that is certainly the undertone of what they were wanting to talk about today.
SCIUTTO: I had a foreign minister of a major U.S. ally call it or describe it to me as Trump insurance in terms of shoring up these alliances, including NATO, and one with Japan, South Korea, prior to the November election.
There is a state dinner tonight, though we should note this is not officially a state visit. I believe it's an official visit because the Japanese emperor is the head of state. So what do we know how that dinner will play out this evening?
LIPTAK: Yeah. That is right. It's an official visit with the state dinner, sort of the complicated diplomatic language that they use when there's a monarch who is officially the head of state. But this will be in the state floor if the White House, it's about 250 guests. The First Lady Jill Biden has previewed some of it, the dishes, they include rib-eye steak, a pistachio cake, the state floor of the White House says decorated in cherry blossoms and they'll also hear a performance by Paul Simon, who is apparently a favorite of Prime Minister Kishida, in all of these meant to sort of pull out the diplomatic trappings to demonstrate the importance of this alliance.
[15:05:13]
And we should note that this is not the end of Kishida's visit. He will be here tomorrow as well to participate in a three-way meeting with President Biden and Ferdinand Marcos, the president the Philippines. All of this trying to stitch together these alliances, not just with the U.S., but between other countries in Asia, all to the end of trying to counter China.
So certainly a lot on the plate for Kishida as he continues. He'll also address Congress in the coming days. So certainly a lot for him to talk about.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. There's been some quite open confrontation between China and the Philippines in East China Sea recently.
Kevin Liptak at the White House, thanks so much.
Biden also spoke very directly about tension between himself and the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, over Israel's conduct of the war in Gaza. In a press conference alongside the Japanese leader today, the presidents said, he's going to wait and see if Netanyahu follows through on his commitments, he called them, regarding civilian casualties and increasing aid to Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Bibi and I had a long discussion. He agreed to do several things that related to number one, getting more aid, both food and medicine into Gaza and reducing significantly the attempts -- the civilian casualties in any action taken in the region.. It needs to be more and there's one more opening and has to take place in the north. So, we'll see what he does in terms of meeting the commitments he made me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Bluntly, he said. Jeremy Diamond is live in Jerusalem.
Jeremy, I wonder how those comments, those words from the U.S. presidents are being met in Israel. There's been quite open public pressure as well as pressure behind the scenes. We know for some time from the Biden administration to Israeli leaders. Are they listening I suppose is the question, because in the past, sometimes we've heard them, listen to those statements and then move forward.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jim and I think there's kind of two ways to look at the Israeli response to the criticism, the increasingly vocal criticism from the United States, including from the president over Israel's conduct in the war in Gaza. On the one hand, we've heard Benjamin Netanyahu kind of revert to his signature defiance, saying that no country including a close ally like the United States, will make Israel change its plans, being defiant about the importance of carrying out this Israeli military offensive in Rafah.
But at the same time, what we've also seen is Israel's government beginning to take steps, at least on the humanitarian aid fronts in direct response to the kind of pressure that we are seeing from the United States. Last week, Israel security cabinet approved the opening of the port of Ashdod, about 20 miles north of the Gaza border, as well as a crossing in northern Gaza to be able to bring in additional humanitarian aid. We haven't actually seen those steps take place but today, I was in a
briefing with the Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, who emphasized that Israel is planning to, quote, flood aid into Gaza, noting the fact that according to COGAT, the Israeli agency that approves -- that coordinates the entry of humanitarian aid into Gaza, the number of trucks this week on a daily basis has done doubled from the number of trucks that went into Gaza last week.
And he also framed it as a direct response to the pressure from the United States, making very clear that Israeli leaders had heard U.S. concerns and were directly responding to it.
Now, we've seen these plans be laid out, but we haven't actually seen a full effect of those plans actually going into motion. So it remains to be seen exactly how much Israel is actually going to follow through. But certainly there does seem to be a shift in tone, at least on the humanitarian aid front, if not on Israeli military plans for Rafah.
SCIUTTO: We'll see if they go forward. We also had news just in the last several hours about Israeli airstrike that killed the children, three sons, I believe, of one of the leaders of Hamas. What do we know about the strike? Was it intentional?
DIAMOND: Yeah, it was intentional. These military owning up to it, saying that they carried out a targeted airstrike on a vehicle. They say killing three of Haniyeh's sons, who the Israeli military says, were Hamas military operatives, including one of them who they say was the commander of a Hamas cell inside of Gaza.
They did not acknowledge the fact that three of Haniyeh's grandchildren were also killed in the strike, as well as a driver, according to reports on the ground.
Now, Haniyeh, for his part, is saying that this was in an attempt to intimidate him and to change Hamas's negotiating position at the negotiating table.
[15:10:05]
As we know that Israeli officials and Hamas officials indirectly, of course, have been wrangling over a potential ceasefire agreements. Haniyeh saying that anyone who thinks that it did is going to change their position is delusional, but tonight, Jim, we're also seeing Israeli officials scrambling to try and distinguish between that strike and the political negotiations with two Israeli officials telling me that Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant, the Israeli defense minister, were not aware of these strikes ahead of time -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: Jeremy Diamond in Jerusalem, thanks so much.
To the war now in Ukraine and a dire warning today from the top U.S. general in Europe, General Chris Cavoli. He told the House Armed Services Committee that Ukraine, quote, will not be able to prevail in the war against Russia without continued U.S. military support. This as Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, made a new plea to
Western allies at the opening of the Delhi economic forum. Zelenskyy called on partners to send weapons so Ukraine can, quote, break Putin's backbone.
CNN's Oren Liebermann joins me now.
Oren, listen to the general here. He's quite dire about what happens to Ukraine without U.S. support, basically saying they lose the war, right? And also noting that they're being out-fired and are going to be out-fired more if this delay continues.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Russia has put its economy on a full-wartime footing. Everything they have goes towards producing the goods, the weapons that are necessary sorry for the war. And one of those critical aspects is, of course, artillery, ammunition.
Ukraine is only able to produce a bit of its own. It relies almost exclusively on other countries. And crucially, the U.S., there, Chris Cavoli, who is not only the head of U.S. European Command, he's also the supreme allied commander Europe under NATO, said that right now, Ukraine is being out fired five to one in artillery shells. And within a matter of, quote, weeks, that will be ten to one as they begin to run out of the artillery ammunition that they are already rationing.
Also crucial on top of that, not just the artillery ammo, they also need more air defenses. Air defense munitions to counter, to shoot down, to fight back against repeated aerial barrages coming from Russian forces. Those are critical munitions and they are running out.
He urged Congress to pass the six -- the supplemental that will give $60 billion in funding and be able to provide critical munitions to Ukraine.
Now, more than two years into the war, Jim, it is worth noting, for example ample the UK and Ukraine announced they would have an agreement for ammunition production but as have other countries, but the U.S. plays such a critical role here. And that's why it's so important to get it through right now to help Ukraine.
SCIUTTO: Yeah, maybe they can fill some of the gap, but not all of the gap.
LIEBERMANN: Right.
SCIUTTO: Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon, thanks so much.
Coming up, new numbers showed inflation in the U.S. growing stronger- than-expected, keeping costs for Americans high potential impact on interest rate decisions. We're going to break down it all, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:16:09] SCIUTTO: You are not imagining it. Gas prices are up, so are housing costs in this country..S. inflation grew higher than expected in March, increasing at a rate of 3.5 percent. That's the highest increase in six months. Stock prices fell dramatically on that news this morning. They of course, had been hoping for an interest rate cut.
Joining me now to break it all down, CNN business editor-at-large, anchor of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS", Richard Quest.
So first on the numbers, Richard, is this about core inflation ticking up again or more cyclical things, energy prices, et cetera?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Both the number for core inflation, which is what the Fed looks at, it's more representative in a sense it's still coming down, but not as fast. And if you look at headline and core and all the various different barometers of inflation what's happening is you're reaching a baseline where inflation is becoming sticky. It's refusing to continue that lower trajectory at the speed and velocity that the Fed would like to see to get back to 2 percent.
So, yes, it's clearly much, much lower than it once was. But it's not going down at the speed and pace now that the Fed will be happy about. And if you cut interest rates, you do really risk starting to put some fuel on the flames or at least the embers of inflation. And that's now the worry, and that's why I think most people are now saying, cut in June, highly unlikely.
SCIUTTO: So President Biden, he was actually asked about this very question during his press conference with the Japanese Prime Minister Kishida, I want -- I want to play his answer to that question and get your thoughts on it. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: We have a plan to deal with it, whereas the opposition -- my opposition talks about two things. They just want to cut taxes for the wealthy and raise taxes on other people. And so I think they're -- they have no plan. Our plan is one I think is still sustainable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: He also said, I should note that it will only in his view, a problem, maybe just his hope delay a rate cut by perhaps a month. I wonder, as you know, the markets have been hoping for a rate cut and that's why they jumped up today.
QUEST: Yeah.
SCIUTTO: Is that a practical, realistic expectation?
QUEST: The markets have been hoping for a rate cut, but the markets are like children in a playground.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. QUEST: They don't get what they want and they go into a strop fit and then start running around in hysterics. And that's what you're seeing today, a completely disproportionate reaction to whether or not the not comes in June or later in the year.
Where it gets really tricky, Jim, is the closer you get to an election. Now, there is precedent for the Fed cutting or raising rates before elections, but it starts to look like naked politicking when you start doing it. The Fed is supposed to -- well, it is neutral. So can you start cutting as you get to the back end of the summer? Do you have to do it now, essentially?
In which case is Larry Summers said, you are taking a risk of pouring some petrol, some gasoline on the embers, or do you have to really wait until after the election? And my guess is, that's going to be very much in the mind of the Fed governors. They -- you know, they walk around the world saying, I see no evil, I hear no evil. We will do what we have to do for the economy.
But they're also realists and they know that they don't want to get caught up in a political morass that they cut rates or did raise rates if it continues so close to an election.
SCIUTTO: Traditionally, the Fed aims for 2 percent. We're still in threes. Does it need to get right up to two, closer to two within a band for them to pull the trigger?
QUEST: Oh, that is the question. How -- and how promiscuous are they going to be with 2 percent?
[15:20:07]
If it is going in the right direction at the right speed to 2 percent, what they do it, the problem is, it is going in the right direction, but not at the right speed. So the fed will be saying, well, asymmetrically, we can do it. Yeah, they're not going to do it.
Any -- remember if the perception, Jim, is that they are starting to play fast and loose, A, with that target, B, with that commitment to hitting that target, that credibility is already in the toilet and it will be flushed right down.
SCIUTTO: Speed and direction, it's a physics problem. I get it.
QUEST: Yeah.
SCIUTTO: Richard Quest, thanks very much.
QUEST: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Back here in the U.S., in Mississippi, a day we've long awaited. That is how the attorney for the victims of six former now police officers described today's day in court, those officers who called themselves the Goon Squad, their name, would given sentences ranging from 15 to 45 years in prison after admitting to beating waterboarding, sexually abusing Eddie Parker and Michael Jenkins, this was in 2023. The county's NCAAP president praised the result saying it sent a clear message against police brutality.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA ENGLISH, RANKIN COUNTY NAACP PRESIDENT: What we've done here in Mississippi is set the precedence. And what we want the world to know is that we will no longer stand for police to use excessive force. We will not stand for them to brutalize people and dehumanize people based on race, creed, color, ethnicity, socioeconomic background. That will never happen here again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: CNN's Ryan Young, he's been following the story. He was in court today as well.
Ryan, you spoke to the attorney who represents Parker and Jenkins and described what they went through. Could you remind us?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Look, I've been talking to this -- Attorney Shabazz for eight months. The first time we spoke on the phone, it was almost hard to believe that any of the things that he was alleging could be true, to the idea that men could be waterboarded, tortured, sexually assaulted, and all this because they were accused of dating a white woman. Those details are hard to believe.
Now the emotion that was in federal court was not seen today because the men realized they were being sentenced today. But this was their old courtroom. This was a courtroom where these men to work and have privileged to walk in and out of all the time.
Today, all that privilege was gone. State troopers were sitting in- between them and one after another. They had to here the judge say he wanted the maximum sentence. Now, they're sentences will run concurrent with the federal charges. So they'll get the sentences that they got from the federal crimes.
But at the same time, one thing is clear. The two victims in this, Michael Jenkins and Eddie Parker, they told the truth. And when you think about two hours of torture one of them actually had a gun placed inside their mouth, the trigger was pulled, his tongue was shot off, and at that point, he had to re-learn how to talk again.
There's so much pain in this case. Listened to the attorney talk about getting to this final moment right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDDIE PARKER, VICTIM OF DEPUTY ASSAULT: It tells me my heart, man, and noted that we were listened to, you know, you gave us voice where you gave us you gave us time and I gave us strength. You notice. I appreciate y'all, y'all. Today, Rankin County, you know, made us believe out of me, made a believe out of hundreds, I know thousands, maybe millions of people.
(END VIDEO CLIP) YOUNG: Jim, that was actually Eddie Parker and you can understand being a victim in a case where when they first started talking, no one believed them. It was hard to believe all the details here. And then are they victims, but there are other victims across this county. There was another man who came forward who said at one point, one of the members of the goon squad pulled out his genitals and slap them in the face with it while pulling his pants down and playing with his genitals.
All this was played out in court. This is something that had people astounded that this would happen in modern law enforcement, now, the big question is, what happens to Bryan Bailey? What happens next? What this sheriffs department?
Because were these six men, the only members of the goon squad or there are more members of the goon squad still in hiding at the sheriffs department?
Lots more question, but so far, there is real justice here for the first time in Mississippi -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: Yeah, those sentences quite significant.
Ryan Young, thanks so much.
YOUNG: Absolutely
SCIUTTO: And we are following breaking news out of Philadelphia. A law enforcement source confirmed to CNN that there was a shooting in a large crowd in west Philadelphia this afternoon, police can not yet say how many people were shot or if any of those shot, were injured. We're going to bring you more details as we get them.
There is more news just ahead. Please do stay with us.
(COMMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:28:26]
SCIUTTO: President Biden is going to need a strong showing from his 2020 coalition of voters if he wants to win again in November. Right now, he is struggling with one key part of that coalition, younger Black voters.
CNN's Rene Marsh sat down with students at historically Black colleges and universities to dig deeper into why exactly they're hesitating.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This November will be the first time Lonnie White and Rokiya Garbo will be old enough to vote in the presidential election. And just the second time Malik Poole and Mozn Shora will cast a presidential ballot.
None are planning to vote for Joe Biden or Donald Trump.
ROKIYA GARBO, NOT VOTING IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: If I were to vote tomorrow, I wouldn't vote, period.
MOZN SHORA, VOTING FOR THIRD PARTY IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Ideally, I would like to vote third party.
LONNIE WHITE, VOTING THIRD PARTY IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: I'm all for an independent candidate.
MALIK POOLE, VOTING THIRD PARTY IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: I'm considering either voting for Claudia Dela Cruz or Cornell West at this point. If there is no substantive policy change when it comes to the genocide in Gaza, then there's not really a discussion for me.
MARSH: When we met at this barbecue restaurant in Atlanta, all four told me they were raised an originally registered as Democrats. But this year, the president's handling of the Israel-Gaza war has turned them away.
SHORA: I think what Biden has done in aiding and abetting a genocide is just something I cannot stand for.
MARSH: You're willing to withhold your vote in the presidential election unless there is a ceasefire.
GARBO: Yes.
MARSH: And it's implemented?
GARBO: Yes.
MARSH: Not voting could mean Donald Trump gets into office. Do you think he'll be better on Gaza?
SHORA: Trump champ would probably say, flatten Gaza and make it into a golf course.
[15:30:02]
I have absolutely no faith in him.
MARSH: Would you not say that all so the people who are not voting for one of the two people who are the likely people to really be in this race have a role to play in kind of giving the race to Donald Trump? In a state like Georgia, where it's going to be like razor thin?
POOLE: I'll do you one better actually, I think that just means that's why the Democrats should listen.
WHITE: Exactly
MARSH: Radical and more tapped in than their peers is how the group describes themselves. Rokiya, even helping to organize this demonstration in Atlanta last October, calling for peace and aid for the Palestinian people.
While they don't speak for the majority of Black voters, their dissent poses a real concern for Democrats in battleground states like Georgia, where Biden won by fewer than 12,000 votes. Black voters under age 30 made up only about 6 percent of voters in Georgia in 2020. That group voted for Joe Biden by more than 50 points.
POOLE: We are holding their election in the palm of our hands and they're not listening
GARBO: We're tired of just hearing him say these things, these empty promises. We have no trust in Joe Biden.
MARSH: The Republican Party isn't earning their vote either.
GARBO: Both sides or just equal. Nothing is being done for us.
SHORA: If enough people vote third party, we can win. That's my thoughts.
MARSH: President Biden's campaign has touted his success on key issues affecting young voters, including student loan forgiveness, lowering unemployment, and tackling inflation.
Still though --
SHORA: I don't feel it. People may be employed, but can they survive off of it?
WHITE: The federal minimum wage has stayed the same since 2009. I was five in 2009, I'm 20 years old now. Well, I work at Goodwill now for $12 an hour. And cost of living keeps increasing, especially here.
MARSH: What could President Biden do to change your mind as far as how you vote in November?
GARBO: Call for a permanent ceasefire and actually implement it.
SHORA: I would like us to stop giving aid to Israel.
WHITE: If he doesn't get elected. That is his fault. That's not our fault. That's not the Black voters here. That's not XYZ, no, it's on him
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Our thanks to Rene Marsh for that report.
Still to come, Donald Trump's "leave it to the states" position on abortion runs up against a historic ruling in Arizona, reviving there a near total ban on the procedure dating back to the Civil War. Could that ruling upend November's presidential race in a key swing state? We're going to have a look next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:35:43]
SCIUTTO: Shock, confusion, some anger sweeping through Arizona after an historic state Supreme Court decision that once in effect would effectively outlawed nearly all abortions. That decision is currently on a two-week hold, but the court put the stakes plainly, writing, quote, physicians are now on notice that all abortions, except those necessary to save a woman's life, are illegal. That means that Arizona will now join 14 states with total or near-total bans, adding to an ever evolving patchwork of reproductive care here in the U.S. for patients and for providers. Census Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade two years ago.
If the procedure is banned in Arizona, it is likely that patients from that state will travel to neighboring states, including California for access.
Joining me now to discuss what that means for providers on the West Coast is Dr. Suzanne Gilberg-Lenz. She's a board-certified OB-GYN in Los Angeles.
Doctor, thanks for taking the time.
DR. SUZANNE GILBERG-LENZ, BOARD-CERTIFIED OB-GYN: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So I wonder, are you expecting an influx of patients for Arizona? Because what often happens with these laws beyond the effect even if they're held for a couple of weeks or the questions are left open, people say, listen, I got to go somewhere else because I just don't know how this will play out. I imagine you have to prepare for that.
GILBERG-LENZ: That's right and these are decisions that need to be made and enacted very, very rapidly, most of the time. So, absolutely, it's going to -- it's going to create a burden and a shift in where people are getting care. And, of course, the problem always is that people already have access to care issues anyways. So in an overburdened medical system and a system that is not consistently supporting human rights and women's health as human rights because this is medical care, abortion care is medicine.
We already have a huge problem. And how are people supposed to now navigate that and travel and leave their homes and get care elsewhere. It's -- you know, it's been an evolving slow-mo unmitigated disaster and I mean -- this strategy of hearkening back to the 1800s, wow.
That's -- you know what, Jim, honestly? You know what I think? I think this is domestic terrorism and stick with me on this one for a moment. Okay? Because the purpose of terrorism is to put people into fight, flight or freeze, correct? If you freeze, you don't do anything and they can continue to take power if you fight back.
And that is actually what we really need to see people doing, perhaps we can get back our rights. It's insane. So doctors are going to be jailed. Patients are going to be jailed, babies are going to be born who aren't well. Women are going to be ill. We're not even caring for the people who are out there now.
I don't -- I don't understand. I mean, I do understand when I don't understand. SCIUTTO: Well, let's set -- so, we'll set the term aside for a moment. Talk about how abortion providers react to this right now, because, you know, the question for abortion providers in states that have passed such laws is, will I be prosecuted, right? If it's an open question or it's in a gray area, am I going to jail, right?
Now --
GILBERG-LENZ: Right.
SCIUTTO: I'm sure you are in communication with folks in states like that, but does that fear --
GILBERG-LENZ: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- extend beyond those states as well?
GILBERG-LENZ: Of course, it does.
And the chilling effect is tremendous, especially almost two years in now, right, to Dobbs. So we've already -- we were anticipating ahead of Dobbs what would happen, okay?
Now we have seen, you mentioned 14 states now.
SCIUTTO: Right.
GILBERG-LENZ: So this -- anybody who thinks this is not going to happen in their state is not living in reality. And your physicians are on lockdown. There are people who are courageous, who are brave, who are willing to make choices to always, always, always put their patients first, but doctors are human beings because as well, and we are burdened by a system that is broken in other ways. And OB-GYN specifically have massive pressures on us. And people are just going to stop already have stopped doing procedures.
I mean, they -- if they don't know if they're going to be able to practice or lose their license, why -- how are they going to continue to provide care that is dangerous? It's dangerous for us to do the work that we do all ready.
SCIUTTO: Right.
Let me ask you this because we've seen this extend into care for miscarriages or for unsustainable births as well, because the doctors or the mothers were in a --
(CROSSTALK)
[15:40:13]
SCIUTTO: So, how might a law like this affects mothers in those situations in the state of Arizona?
GILBERG-LENZ: I think they're going to be affected the same way they were affected in places like Texas and we saw horrible, horrible situations where people were had a known ectopic pregnancy, a pregnancy outside uterus. It is not viable and it is extraordinarily dangerous to the woman who is pregnant.
You can die without proper treatment in an expedited manner. And we had situations where people were calling, you know, the resource management and risk management. Well, a person is in the emergency room who needs to be in the operating room.
So we know what will happen. Women will be harmed, women will die, women will lose their capacity to become pregnant in the future, potentially. A lot of bad things have already happened and bad things will continue to happen. We don't need to like guess at what will happen. We've been watching it happen for two years. So were doing it more now, apparently.
SCIUTTO: Well, Dr. Suzanne Gilbert-Lenz, thanks so much for sharing your experience with us.
GILBERT-LENZ: Thanks for having me, Jim.
SCIUTTO: That ruling in Arizona is complicating, one might say, a week in which Donald Trump attempted to get beyond this. He outlined a leave it to the state's position on abortion, of course, in the state of Arizona. We saw what the state court decision was.
Today, while campaigning in Atlanta, he had a lot to say about Arizona's ruling. He said it went too far and would be somehow straightened out if he were to be president while also doubling down that it is states that should decide these questions.
He also said this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Would you sign a national abortion ban if Congress sent it to your desk?
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: So what does this mean about Trump's position on abortion? What is it exactly?
CNN's Steve Contorno is here to walk us through it.
Steve, he tried to put this behind him with the statements saying I'm going to leave it to the states. Then you had a state court make a decision in Arizona reviving a civil war era law and saying, basically -- well, not saying basically, saying no abortions unless the mother's health or life is in danger, that's a state deciding. But then Trump said, well, in that case, I think that went too far.
How should folks at home understand what Trump's stances today?
STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Well, here's what I can say, Jim, the only thing consistent about Donald Trump's position on abortion over the years is how inconsistent it has been. If you go back to when he was first flirting with running for president back in 1999, he called himself, quote, very pro-choice. Flash forward to when he was running again in 2015, 2016, he had to do a lot of work to convince Republicans evangelicals, pro-life voters that he was an anti-abortion candidate, and he actually got behind a 20-week federal abortion ban.
Well, now, we get to today where he is saying that if same bill that he once supported landed on his desk where to be heated, be elected president, he would not sign it in. What has been consistent throughout his waffling on this issue over the years is that he has often taken the stance that is most politically expedient at the time.
And right now, that is trying to convince voters in states that are going to see abortion referendums on the ballot that have seen the aftermath of Roe v. Wade. He has to convince those people that he has somehow moderated his position on abortion. He is now pushing this quote, leave it to the states proposal.
This is how he sees that affecting doctors going forward when he was asked about that today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you think a doctor should be punished who performed abortion?
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I let that be to the states. You know, everything we're doing now in states, on states rights, and what we wanted to do is get it back to the states because for 53 years, it's been a fight. And now, the states are handling it and some have handled it very well and the others will end up handling it very well. And those are the things that states are going to make a determination about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CONTORNO: So it's clearly there. He is pushing everything out to the states.
But as we are seeing in Arizona, if you're -- what we've seen from the past few years out of Texas, and what may be the future in states like Florida, where a six-week abortion ban is about to go into effect, leaving it to the states means an awful lot of women do not have access to abortion and Democrats are doing their best to remind voters of that going forward, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Not to mention put that issue on the ballot in November in Florida and an effort now in Arizona.
CONTORNO: Exactly.
SCIUTTO: Steve Contorno, thanks so much.
So, for more on the politics of this, our political panel, Democratic strategist Adrienne Elrod, Republican strategist Shermichael Singleton.
Shermichael, I'm going to begin with you.
[15:45:01]
He said, I am for states rights, but not this state because what Arizona did I disagree with. Hard to figure out how those things are consistent.
He was he for a federal ban, but now he said he won't sign a ban if it came to his desk. The Biden campaign says Trump lies constantly about everything. But has one track record, banning abortion every chance he gets.
I mean, he knows this is a political issue for him. What is his position actually? Do you know? Does he know?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the position should be when he says, leave it to the states, it should be leave it to the states by allowing voters to vote on it. Why --
SCIUTTO: Not allowing state court?
SINGLETON: Absolutely not, because when you give people, voters that option, the choice to vote on this issue, they are overwhelmingly saying we want to protect --
SCIUTTO: Through referendum.
SINGLETON: Absolutely, we want to protect reproductive rights and it's not just a Democrat. If you look through the polling data on this, there's a sizable percent of Republicans who are saying maybe I'm a bit uncomfortable with abortion. But as a conservative, I don't think the government should use compulsory forced to prohibit individuals from making that decision.
SCIUTTO: Trouble with that though, the pro-life --
SINGLETON: Yeah.
SCIUTTO: -- anti-abortion rights movement is wait a second. He said he was again with us on this. And by the way, he took credit for --
SINGLETON: He did.
SCIUTTO: -- appointing three Supreme Court justices that overturned Roe.
SINGLETON: He did. And my message to evangelicals I know well, I worked with them and I worked on Dr. Carson's 2016 campaign as a chief coalition strategist is simply this -- if you want to win in November, the White House --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
SINGLETON: -- if you want to take back control of the Senate, if you want to try to fight to keep the House, but we're going to lose anyway, you need to amend your position on this politically. That has nothing to do at your personal religious views. You can keep that.
But in terms of politics, we're not winning on this issue. Look at Kansas where you had districts that voted for Trump, voted with Democrat to say, we want to protect reproductive rights. Wisconsin with Janet Protasiewicz, won that state Supreme Court seat.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
SINGLETON: The record is clear on this, Jim, that Republicans have to give voters what they're asking for and what they're asking for is to maintain the right to reproductive rights.
SCIUTTO: So, Adrienne Elrod, how do Democrats see this as it relates to November? I mean, it's clear, Democrats see opportunity here. In a place like Florida, they're now talking about Florida being, well, possibly in play, given that there will be a referendum in the fall and perhaps similar in Arizona.
ADRIENNE ELROD, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yeah. Look, Jim, it's unfortunate, as the overturning Roe v. Wade, was by this Supreme Court. I mean, the truth is, it is actually an advantage electorally for Democrats.
I mean, sure. Michael just talked about some of the states like Kansas, that overwhelmingly supported a woman's right to choose her own decisions about our health when given the choice on the ballot, we're going to see that as you mentioned in Arizona and Florida, across the country.
ELROD: But look, the bottom line is, I mean, I loved that Shermichael is thinking about how Donald Trump can try to pivot here, the truth of the matter is he can't. He put three pro-choice -- I'm sorry, pro-life Supreme Court justices on the Supreme Court. And he's not going to be able to get away from that.
Voters are not going to forget that. They didn't forget it in 2022, midterms. They're not going to forget it in 2024. And Democrats are going to make sure that they don't forget it.
So I say Trump trying to pivot. He's obviously kind of creating a word salad out of wherever he stands now. You see Kari Lake, who embrace 1864 law in Arizona now saying, oh, we got to fix that, like I call them the governor to fix it. The bottom line is voters are smarter than that and they know, and that's why this play is not going to be effective for Donald Trump.
SCIUTTO: Shermichael, I mean, listen, politicians -- their positions all the time --
SINGLETON: They change.
SCIUTTO: This is one you cannot fudge for women --
SINGLETON: You can't. SCIUTTO: -- talking about their reproductive rights. You cannot word salad your way through this.
SINGLETON: You can't, and that's why I think when the former president made the statement released the statement a day or two ago when he said it's a states rights issue, you play the clip. He keeps saying it's a states rights issue.
I would advise you need to go a step further to state right issue for voters to decide, not state legislatures, not Supreme Courts because they're making decisions like in Alabama, with IVF. I mean, there are so many conservatives that I heard from that were reaching out to me saying, Shermichael, when you go on air, tell them we don't support this.
SCIUTTO: Well, state Supreme Court justices are appointed by elected figures. I mean, that's the thing, much like the court justice was reported by people elected.
Adrienne, I'm going to ask you. White House, they announced that Vice President Harris, she is going to travel to Tucson in the wake of this Arizona decision. The president, of course, and we saw him at the White House today saying, in effect, elect me, I'm the one who could protect your rights.
Should -- should it be Biden heading to Tucson and not Harris? Should -- I see all -- makes perfect sense, to send a woman. She's the vice president, but should heed also be lead on this issue given his top of the -- top of the ticket in November?
ELROD: Yeah. I think, Jim, you're going to see President Biden traveling across the country, continuing to travel across the country talking about this issue. The vice president, obviously, as a woman, a former prosecutor as certainly has some first-hand experience in terms of understanding what its like to be a woman and having your reproductive rights limited.
[15:50:07]
Like the Supreme Court has done, like states like Arizona has done. So I think you're going to seek Biden out there talking about it like he has been. You're going to see the vice president out there. You're going to see many other surrogates in the administration. You're going to see -- I always say, you know, we've got the Avengers squad here in the Democratic Party. We're going to see Governor Whitmer, you know, Governorship Shapiro, Pritzker, Governor Newsom, so many of our effective surrogates probably across the country talking about this because it truly is, it's emblematic of what's at stake in this election, and it's not just democracy on the line. It's not just turning our country back to a time where we are -- we could be Donald Trump -- could be a divisive president.
It is literally about a woman's right to choose and make your own decisions about our body. And this is something that again, Republicans are not going to be able to run away from.
SCIUTTO: Shermichael, to Adrienne's wise point there, you put this on the ballot, right?
SINGLETON: Yeah.
SCIUTTO: -- that brings out, that's been a prime motivator for Democratic turnout. And the reason why Democrats are saying, hey, maybe Florida might be in play. Maybe it's not become a red state as opposed to the purple state because we'll get our voters out there.
And then by the way, while they're there voting for this referendum, they're going to take blue --
SINGLETON: They'll vote for President Biden and Democrats.
SCIUTTO: They're going to take blue over red, you know?
SINGLETON: Yeah. Jim, I think that's a bit wishful thinking. I think Florida is still a safe place, but I do think it's important strategically for Republicans to moderate on this issue. When you look at the pole and you look at focus groups, Donald Trump, for the most part, we've talked about this on CNN. He's been leading on the economy, on immigration, on foreign policy.
This is the one crux or conundrum, if you will, for Republicans that he cannot get over this hill. And so again, I think moderating somewhat is smart. Evangelicals are not going to vote for President Biden, they're going to vote for Trump. And even though they may go voting for Trump, angry and upset, I think they recognize how important it is to win the White House in November.
And so I think President Trump moderating, Republicans writ large moderating their language, suddenly saying, look, if voters want to move in a different direction on this as different from what we may believe, we will respect the will of the people. It's smart politics, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Adrienne, is there a Democratic case to evangelicals? I mean, if it was a pro-life agenda and here you have a presidential candidate, the former president who is going wobbly on that issue now, right, in the view of evangelicals, what is the case that Democrats make to them? Or is it just a lost portion of the voting population?
ELROD: Yeah. I mean, look, I think if evangelicals, which I don't want to put them on the block because I know Biden does have quite a bit of support among some evangelical voters are people who classify themselves as evangelical voters. But, of course, the larger block of those voters first are supporting Trump. And I think if those voters really took a step back and realized where Trump is on the issues, versus where Biden is on the issues, the answer would be a little bit more clear that the Biden is the person who is more supportive of them. He is somebody who is a man of faith who, who has been going to church for a very long time for all the right reasons, supports policies that they support.
So, you know, I think that they really thought about that. That's where they would go, but, you know, I'm not really sure. Sometimes, where that block of voters -- what their true motivations are when your hands to supporting Trump or they're supporting in the MAGA wing of the party.
SCIUTTO: Adrienne Elrod, Shermichael Singleton with me here in Washington, thanks so much to both you.
SINGLETON: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: And coming up in the next hour, we have a lot more news. Please do stay with us. We'll be back after a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:56:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back.
I do want to go back to Philadelphia where police had been responding to a shooting and large crowd there.
CNN's Athena Jones, she's been following it. Athena, do we now know any injuries, what spark this?
ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Jim. Well, we're beginning to learn more details as time passes. We know that cameras caught local cam, an affiliate caught up with the relative of a 23- year-old who spoke a little bit about what was going on there in that area of west Philadelphia where police responded to a shooting amid a large crowd.
This witness says that they were celebrating the end of Ramadan, so Eid, when shots rang out, police -- authorities do not believe that this shooting was connected to that celebration of the end of Ramadan, the Muslim holy month of fasting. But this young woman says her cousin was shot in the stomach and take it to the hospital.
So this seems at the moment to be another case of the kind of gun violence that we see often in big cities across America. But more details are coming out and well get them to you as soon as we have them -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: At least one injured as you're saying there.
Athena Jones, thanks so much for covering.
And thanks so much for joining me today.
I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.
