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Jury Selection Back Underway; Two Seated Jurors Excused; The Israel-Hamas War is Taking on the Most Vulnerable; More Than 13,000 Children Killed in Gaza; Food Aid Reaches Gaza; Trump Recently Met with Foreign Leaders. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired April 18, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It is 8:00 p.m. in London, 10:00 p.m. in Jerusalem, 2:00 p.m. in Nashville, Tennessee, 3:00 p.m. here in New York City. I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on "CNN Newsroom." And let's get right to the news.

Lots of news this morning in New York. We are live in Manhattan, where inside the courtroom right behind me, jury selection is back underway. Former President Donald Trump sitting as a criminal defendant, listening to the men and women who could make up the jury that decides his legal fate.

It is day three of jury selection in this trial. So far, it has been, to some degree, one step forward, two steps back.

Tuesday night, we had seven jurors seated. As of now, that is down to five after two jurors were dismissed today for two different reasons. One, who said she could no longer be impartial, telling the judge, "Aspects of my identity have already been out there in the public. Yesterday alone, I had friends, colleagues, and family push things to my phone, questioning my identity as a juror."

So, five impaneled, seven to go, plus six alternates. When this trial gets underway, these jurors will consider 34 felony charges against Trump over alleged hush money payments. Following it all for us, CNN -- for CNN is Zach Cohen. So, Zach, right now, I believe another group of 18 potential jurors being questioned. How is that questioning proceeding? We saw it move pretty quickly on Tuesday. We should note. How is it moving today?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Jim, this 18 is from the group of 38 remaining potential jurors. They are facing questions from prosecutors. Defense attorneys will then have 30 minutes after the prosecutors are done asking questions to -- ask their own questions of these jurors.

And it is moving along, as you said it did on Tuesday. You know, the questions are largely the same. Prosecutors want to know, does the fact that the defendant in this case is Donald Trump, does that -- in the minds of these jurors, potential jurors, does it make it so the prosecutors have to prove more the standard of proof be higher because the defendant is? We've got a variety of answers so far as they're making their way through this group of 18.

But nobody has said no unequivocally. So, no dismissals yet from that line of questioning. But jury selection still moving forward, inching forward as we do try to fill out the rest of that jury and add those potential -- or those remaining alternates that need to be added as well.

And look, Judge Merchan did say on Tuesday that he was hopeful opening statements could begin as soon as Monday. But as you said, one step forward, two steps back, losing two jurors. And we have not added anymore. So, it'll be interesting to see if that timeline does hold or if it's pushed back by some of the challenges of filling out this jury.

SCIUTTO: And tell us just briefly about the two who left the jury this morning.

COHEN: Absolutely. The first was juror number two, or formerly known as juror number two. And she raised concerns about her ability to be fair and impartial because she said that there were indications that her anonymity had been compromised, that she was getting calls and texts from friends, families, colleagues who were asking her if she was a member of this jury. So, the judge saying that because she felt her -- she could no longer be impartial, she could be excused from the case.

Now, the second juror to be dismissed today was juror number four, formerly juror number four. This was the juror who had previously told prosecutors that he found Trump "fascinating and mysterious." Upon -- after being seated on Tuesday, though prosecutors did a little bit of their own due diligence and came up with evidence that he may have been arrested back in the 1990s for tearing down political ads.

There's also some indication that somebody with his same name was married to someone who was involved in some sort of corruption inquiry and it reached a deferred prosecution agreement with the Manhattan D.A. So, it's not exactly clear if those are the reasons why juror number four was dismissed because that conversation was happening in private.

But the reality is, is we are two jurors down, back down to five from seven where we started the day.

SCIUTTO: Zach Cohen, thanks so much. I want to bring in now Linda Moreno. She is a jury consultant and lawyer who's worked on several high-profile trials. Also, welcome back, Jeff Swartz. He's a former Florida judge, now a professor of law at Cooley Law School, who's been helping us navigate this trial all week. Thanks so much for both of you -- to both of you.

Linda, I want to begin with you. And I asked Joey Jackson this question last trial, and he said it's not unusual actually to have jurors dismissed after being seated. And I wonder beyond that, is there some benefit here, right, to get through any remaining questions now rather than after a trial has already started?

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LINDA MORENO, LAWYER AND JURY CONSULTANT: Well, there is a benefit into making sure that the people who will finally sit and sit through the whole trial. Otherwise, you're miss -- you're risking a mistrial and the whole thing has to start all over again.

I do think that you're going to find more jurors who will have problems either because they might have some concerns about their identity being compromised, like the other juror in contemplation, the obligation that they now have taken on, they may decide, you know what, I just can't do it.

And you want jurors to be honest and candid, because there are no wrong answers in jury selection. What you're looking for is honesty and candor. And that's very important in the process. The most important.

SCIUTTO: Jeff, that question about fear, right, it strikes me as an important one for this case that the jurors -- here's a juror here who worried that her identity might be compromised and of course, in the background are concerns that if it's compromised, would you be targeted, right, would you become a public target? How big of a concern and how big of an obstacle is that, not just in jury selection, but as the trial proceeds?

JEFFREY SWARTZ, PROFESSOR, COOLEY LAW SCHOOL AND FORMER FLORIDA JUDGE: Sometimes that fear that is created either by the defendant or people around him can actually be counterproductive. That is -- what happens is that some jurors will say they don't want to be there. You end up seating someone else. The people that are "brave enough to stay" are the ones that, I think, defendants really should fear. And that is that they're brave enough to stand up and say guilty if they believe that someone has been, in fact, proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. So, I think there is a counter production that can happen here.

I think that to the same extent that's why we have six alternates that are going to sit here because things happen in long trials. People get sick, they have problems at home, whatever it may be, and you certainly don't want the mistrial when you're halfway through the trial. You just want to be able to put another juror in there.

So, there's a lot of things that can happen. I'm not surprised that a couple of them have dropped off already.

SCIUTTO: Linda, when you look at each side, defense and prosecution, interesting point from Jeff there that a juror who stays might be not an ideal juror for the defense, someone who would be willing to perhaps vote to convict a former president. But when you look at the prosecution and defense, is there a profile of a juror that they might seek to have on that jury?

MORENO: Well, you know, that's the 64,000-question, what's the profile? And I think profiles have value, but they're also very dangerous. Because jurors can surprise you. For the prosecution, you know -- and I think also for the defense, they do want someone that's going to be able to really understand the elements of what the criminal conduct as alleged is here. There's been a lot of discussion about that.

And so, therefore, the fact that you have two lawyers on the panel actually might be beneficial to both sides, even though the fault floor usually is you don't want any lawyers on your jury, I'm speaking from a defense perspective, because they're usually the power brokers back in the deliberating room.

So, the profile issue can be very tricky. There is -- they see one way, but they really are completely different and can be very discerning.

SCIUTTO: Jeff, by our latest count, each side has four peremptory strikes left in effect dismissals of jurors or objections to jurors without explanation. How do you use them? And do you believe that they might be allowed additional strikes going forward?

SWARTZ: I have a real strong feeling that with the number of challenges for cause that have been asserted by the defense, that in order to keep the record clean on appeal, that it might be very likely that Judge Merchan might give them a few more peremptory challenges.

They have to use those peremptory challenges on people that they challenged for cause, or they waive their objections after a conviction on appeal.

I think that in order to keep the record clear, I think that's exactly what Judge Merchan may do. I know that most judges look at that. Of course, remember, if they give more to the defense, they're going to have to give more to the prosecution, too.

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SCIUTTO: Yes. And, Linda, I wonder, listen, this trial, of course, it is unusual. It's a former president, current candidate for president, it's Donald Trump. A lot of people have strong opinions about Donald Trump. But every jury that a judge attempts to seat for a trial they're always looking for something -- some group that is fair, that is relatively representative of the community where they come from, right?

And you run into problems with every jury, I imagine. I mean, some of them are personal, people have lives, some relate to biases and so on. So, I wonder, Linda is there a devil's advocate argument to say that, yes, these are more pronounced challenges, but they're not unique challenges when it comes to building a jury?

MORENO: No, they're not unique challenges. And the panel, thus far, the jurors that have been selected and sworn actually really represent all the neighborhoods in New York, from the Upper East Side down to Kelsey. So, you have a representative, you know, sample there.

I mean, the truth is that you're looking at a lot of different dynamics. You're looking at the power brokers. You're looking at who is going to side with who back in the deliberating room. So, there's a number of dynamics at play. The jurors tend to surprise you. And I think that at the end of the process -- by the way, I wanted to agree with the professor. I think that -- certainly, as a defense lawyer, I would be asking for more peremptory strikes, given the level of self-identification as being unfair or they can't sit that we've already seen. I think 100 jurors have already been excused on that basis. So, I would definitely be asking for more peremptory strikes as well.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And listen, you know, it's meant to be an equalizing experience. Is it not? When I've sat on juries before or have been brought in to potentially be on juries, there's a great mix of people.

Before we go, Jeff, yes, you lost two juries today, but this is a judge who tried to move things along on Tuesday. Do you still believe a Monday start for opening arguments is realistic?

SWARTZ: I think we'll have a clearer picture today, but unless they come up with six or seven more today, I think the possibility of getting the rest of them on Friday is probably pretty negligible. I think we're going to end up on Monday trying to pick more jurors and see what happens.

I got to say, though, that you got two lawyers sitting there. As a judge, I don't want lawyers on my jury because I want the jury paying attention to what I tell them the law is, not what those two jurors back there do. And if they go at each other, you're going to end up with a hung jury. So, I don't know that I want two lawyers on this jury.

SCIUTTO: Jeff Swartz, Linda Moreno, thanks so much to both of you.

MORENO: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: And we will continue to find updates from our team inside the courtroom, just behind me, as we get there.

And when we come back, the toll the Israel-Hamas war is taking on the most vulnerable, the children of Gaza.

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SCIUTTO: Welcome back. More than 13,800 Children have been killed in Gaza since the war began, this according to UNICEF. Numbers like that can feel impossible to comprehend. Our next report, while extremely difficult to watch, helps do that. At CNN, we have decided it is important to tell the story of this war, its toll, its victims, with faces and names, as well as numbers.

Yesterday, at least 14 people were killed, including eight children by a strike targeting a refugee camp in Central Gaza. CNN's Jeremy Diamond spoke with the family of one of the youngest victims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A moment frozen in time. The bodies of at least four children splayed around the foosball table. Laughter and shrieks of joy silenced in an instant. Blood now marking where they stood only minutes earlier.

Shahid (ph), no way. Shahid (ph), my beloved, her cousin screams from behind the camera. Ten-year-old Shahid (ph) is one of those children. Her bright pink pants unmistakable in the arms of the man carrying her away.

With her family's consent, CNN has decided to show Shahid (ph) in life and death, in order to give a face to this war's deadly impact on children.

At al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital, those who can still be saved arrive alongside those who cannot. Amid the chaos, Shahid's (ph) pink pants dangling as a doctor confirms what is tragically obvious. But Shahid (ph) is not alone. She's one of eight children who died on that crowded street in Al-Maghazi. The hospital says they were killed in an Israeli airstrike. By publication time, the Israeli military said only that the incident is under review.

One after another, their small bodies arrive at the hospital's morgue, and into the arms of grieving parents. His eyes swollen and red, the father of nine-year-old Lujain (ph) recounts his daughter's last moments, playing foosball with her friends.

This is my eldest daughter he says, a drone strike hit them while they were playing. They are all children.

Hours earlier, Yusuf (ph) was one of those children, playing alongside Shahid (ph) and Lujain (ph) when he was suddenly killed in a war he did not choose. His mother still clinging to her son.

Neither does this boy who cannot believe his brother is dead. He is still alive he cries, don't leave him here.

Amid the outpourings of grief, there is Shahid (ph), her bloodstained pink pants once again, impossible to miss.

Dear God, what did they all do, one man cries? What did they all do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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SCIUTTO: Our thanks to Jeremy Diamond for that just devastating report. The story of one child, from many thousands, who have died in Gaza since the start of this war.

Well, now to the urgent need to get simple humanitarian aid into Gaza. Israeli authorities say at least 342 aid trucks did make it into the Gaza Strip on Wednesday as Palestinians are facing deadly hunger. Israel says there is "no limit on the amount of aid that can enter the Strip." Before the war, about 500 supply trucks reached Gaza every day. CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson joins us now live from Jerusalem. Nic, before I get to the challenges of getting aid into Gaza, I want to ask you, do stories like that, one just told by our colleague Jeremy Diamond, do they get seen by members of the Israeli public? Are they aware of -- do they see every day the faces of some of those who have been dying there as a result of Israeli military action?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Rarely, Jim. And I think it would be fair to say it's unlikely that that particular report will get on. There's very, very little of that sort of imagery that is carried on media here. It really is, when you see pictures like that, a rather incomplete picture.

I talked to one analyst here about this recently, and he said, look, both sides here are sort of trapped in their own information bubbles of seeing everything that's happening to the Palestinians on one side and everything when Israeli perspective on the other side, and the two sides don't meet, and these are mutually exclusive.

And we commission freelance journalists inside of Gaza to try to film and record there what's happening, because -- and this is really simple and we cannot say it enough, because the Israeli government won't let independent international journalists like ourselves into Gaza. For more than six months they have absolutely, point blank, refused to do it. Not countenance it, not give us the opportunity. And these courageous journalists inside Gaza recalls these horrific images.

And I must say when I saw those -- as I watched them last night or the night before now, it had a devastating impact on me. Because even we, because we're trapped and we're not able to get in there, can't see the horrors of what are happening. And those really were some of the worst images I've seen and very well told by our colleague Jeremy.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, you look and you can't help but imagine your own child, right? It's a natural emotion, a natural reaction. Nic, on to the aid then for a moment, because that is another way that the civilians of Gaza are suffering now. Is there any real progress on getting aid in into Gaza?

ROBERTSON: On the numbers, yes, of the trucks. And of course, when the World Central Kitchen, seven aid workers were killed about 18 days ago now, that really triggered a huge amount of pressure from the United States, and that seems to have been a potential turning point.

The Israelis said they would open a border crossing in the north. And perhaps about 10 trucks also got through there over the past 24 hours, according to Israeli officials, that one U.N. official I was speaking to about it said, well, you know, the roads on the other side of that border crossing in the north, they've just been destroyed. I mean, they're not passable. So, the logistics on the other side are not there in place.

But I asked them, Andrea De Domenico, the -- UNOCHA, U.N.'s top international body for humanitarian aid. I talked to Andrea here, their representative, about if he sees a change in improvement in the aid deliveries.

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ANDREA DE DOMENICO, HEAD OF OCHA'S OFFICE IN OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORY: The real success will be when we will be able to deliver assistance to people where they are. The first one.

ROBERTSON: And is that happening now?

DE DOMENICO: And there is aid. We're moving the dial. We are not where we should be. There is a commitment to get there. And so, I hold -- I will hold accountable the Israeli for this commitment. We need to expand humanitarian assistance. It's not just about flour. And that is something that we have to push on and consistently discuss with Israel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Yes, he said he feels it's one step forward and one step back. And another problem he pointed out to me they have, they evacuated the north of Gaza where the desperate -- most desperate need for food is, the 12th of October, with all U.N. agencies evacuated from the north of Gaza, he said, we don't have any people there.

You know, how do we establish a system of delivering to people if we don't have anyone there? The problems are multifold, Jim.

[15:25:00]

SCIUTTO: Yes, no question. Nic, thanks so much. Appreciate you joining us.

When we come back, back here in the U.S., jury selection continues in that building just behind me. Former President Donald Trump's criminal trial underway in a courtroom there. We're going to have the latest, coming up.

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SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Resetting our top story now. We are live in New York City. Day three of Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial continues in the courthouse just behind me.

The big news today, we are down to five seated jurors after two were excused for different reasons from the trial this morning by the judge. CNN's Zach Cohen following the latest developments there as questioning of new jurors -- new potential jurors, I should say, continues.

Zach, I understand that defense attorneys have been questioning potential jury candidates. What kinds of questions are they asking?

COHEN: Yes, that's right, Jim. We're about halfway through the 30 minutes that Trump's attorneys get to question 18 of these remaining potential jurors. You know, they've been asking a series of questions, a lot of similar to the ones we heard them ask the other pool of jurors on Tuesday, but maybe even a little bit more direct in some of these ways. You know, they're asking specifically about the way that these jurors feel towards Donald Trump and what they think about him, not just his performance while he was president, but also just as a person. And these are obviously New Yorkers, people from Manhattan. And a lot of them have always have been familiar with Donald Trump for way longer than his stint in the Oval Office.

[15:30:00]

So, a variety of responses, including one juror telling Trump's attorneys that they didn't like Trump's persona. And they were -- they went on to elaborate on what they meant by that.

They're also asking jurors about their ability to understand if a witness might be potentially lying. We know both defense attorneys and the prosecutors have acknowledged that the witnesses in this case, a lot of them -- the prosecutors say, have edge to them.

You know, Trump lawyers may be hinting at their -- the way that they plan to undermine or combat some of these potentially problematic witnesses when they take the stand by putting up other witnesses that might refute what they say.

So, Trump's attorney is trying to get a sense of if these juries can determine if a witness is lying, if another witness contradicts them from the witness stand. They actually use the word revenge and one of their questions. They say, can you understand that some of these witnesses may want to get revenge on Donald Trump? Of course, revenge is the title of Michael Cohen --

SCIUTTO: Thanks so much to Zach Cohen. We lost him briefly there.

I do want to now bring in Jeff Swartz, former Florida judge, professor at law -- professor of law at Cooley Law School. Jeff, I wonder, listening to Zach describe those circumstances where, in a courtroom in which Donald Trump is sitting, jurors are asked very probing questions about their opinion of the man, and they're giving, it seems, in many cases, forthcoming answers.

Some of them saying, I don't like the guy. I don't like the persona, very much. And is that something you see often in trials like this where the accused sits there and watches as those jurors are questioned about whether they can be partial towards him?

SWARTZ: That has happened a number of times. And it really is, kind of, interesting to see a juror who feel protected in a courtroom setting. Down here in Florida, the prosecutor always sits right next to the jury box. It is in between the defendant and the jury. So, it looks like the prosecutor is protecting them.

Here, the judge is doing that, and they kind of feel that they can say whatever they want to say. And if they're thrown off the jury, they're thrown off the jury. If they get to stay, that's fine with them, too. But they get a chance sometimes, and I would take this as a defense attorney, they're basically saying, they don't like my guy. They're awfully brave, and I'm not sure that I want them on this jury.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you a question though, and this is one I've asked you before, but as it relates to each topical question, I wonder what the answer is. Because there's opinion and then there's bias. Every human being that comes forward to be questioned, to be on a jury will carry with him or her opinions. That does not, by itself, disqualify them for jury service.

So, what is the bar, in a case like this, beyond it? If someone says right away, I cannot be partial. Fine, they go. That was -- that's one of the first questions they're asked. But what's the bar in later questioning?

SWARTZ: The later part is really simple, and a lot of times the judge will ask this question during voir dire when he feels that a juror has been somewhat wounded, but probably not appropriately. So, they will say, sir or ma'am, knowing what you know and the opinions that you have, can you set those aside and only listen to the testimony and the evidence that's in front of you in this courtroom, and decide this case only on that and the law as I explained it to you, not what you think it is? And if they answer yes, they have rehabilitated themselves and they are qualified like anybody else to be a juror.

SCIUTTO: That's notable. I didn't know that because in the question is that preface, knowing the opinions that you have, acknowledging that folks have opinions. Well, Jeff Swartz, we'll probably bring you back if we get any developments from in there -- new jurors. Thanks so much.

SWARTZ: Take care. Thanks.

SCIUTTO: Well, between campaigning and court appearances, Donald Trump has been meeting with some foreign leaders before he even formally accepts the Republican nomination. Brian Todd reports on why.

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BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Between court dates, he's acting like a man who's back in the White House. Former President Trump had dinner Wednesday night with right wing Polish President Andrzej Duda at Trump Tower in New York. The latest in a series of private interactions Trump has had with foreign leaders or diplomats. He's basically been holding court at his various properties in New York and Florida.

Hosting Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban at Mar-a-Lago last month. Heaping praise on the hard-line leader in videos posted on Orban's Instagram account.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He said this is the way it's going to be and that's the end of it, right? He's the boss. And now he's a great leader, fantastic leader.

TODD (voice-over): That meeting drawing the scorn of the man who is in the White House.

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: You know who he's meeting with today and -- down in Mar-a-Lago? Orban of Hungary, who stated flatly, he doesn't think democracy works. He's looking for dictatorship.

[15:35:00]

TODD (voice-over): Trump had recent phone calls with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and the King of Bahrain. But it's not just strongmen who are queuing up to meet with Donald Trump. British Foreign Minister David Cameron came courting at Mar-a-Lago in recent days.

Why this shadow diplomacy? Analysts say, the foreign leaders are hedging their bets for the possibility of Trump returning to the Oval Office.

EVERLYN FARKAS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE MCCAIN INSTITUTE: Foreign leaders will also want to make sure that they have some kind of knowledge of President Trump and what his intentions are vis-a-vis their country and the country's interests before he gets into office. That they signal that they're not going to be adversarial towards President Trump should he get into office, or at least to collect intelligence.

TODD (voice-over): CNN and other outlets have recently reported that foreign diplomats in Washington are frantically trying to set up meetings with Trump's allies. And that Trump's aides are encouraging other nations to send their emissaries to Mar-a-Lago. It's not unusual for an opposition presidential candidate to meet with foreign leaders.

Barack Obama and Mitt Romney traveled overseas to do it when they were running for president. But there's a risk for Trump if he uses these meetings to undermine President Biden.

TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: We know that Donald Trump doesn't truly respect red lines. So, of course, there is a risk that he is going to engage in some prospective foreign policy making in these negotiations.

TODD (voice-over): And that would be a violation of the Logan Act, a law making it illegal for an American citizen to engage in foreign policy without the authorization of the current president.

TODD: And analysts say, these meetings carry a significant and rather obvious risk for the foreign leaders and diplomats meeting with Trump. The risk of angering President Biden and souring their relationships with him if he wins office again.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: When we come back, the long wait in Ukraine for desperately needed U.S. military assistance looks like it could be over.

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[15:40:00]

SCIUTTO: To the campaign trail now where America's most famous political family is turning on one of its own. At least 15 people with the last name Kennedy lined up behind President Joe Biden today in Philadelphia. You see him there. A powerful show of force by the Democratic dynasty against not just Former President Donald Trump, but against their own relative Robert F. Kennedy Jr. who's making his own independent bid for the White House.

Today's appearance a rejection by the Kennedy family of that name. Here is his sister, Kerry Kennedy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY KENNEDY, SISTER OF ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: President Biden has been a champion for all the rights and freedoms that my father and uncle stood for. That's why nearly every single grandchild of Joe and Rose Kennedy supports Joe Biden.

That's right. That's right. The Kennedy family endorses Joe Biden for President.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins me now from the White House. Priscilla, I wonder, are we seeing the Biden campaign get more aggressive, in particular, against Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. because they see his third-party candidacy as a risk, particularly in some of these swing states?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, it is certainly a sign that this is going to be a tight race come November. That even a third-party candidate could really pose a threat to President Biden. And he is trying to shore up in his campaign as well as many votes as they can, particularly in a state like Pennsylvania, a battleground state.

And so, today, what we saw from the president was him tapping into that storied history of the Kennedy family, and also talking about how the late senator was a personal inspiration of his, and also citing the bust that he has of him in the Oval Office. Take a listen to how he described the Kennedy family and the inspiration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Your family, the Kennedy family, has endured such violence, denying January 6th and whitewashing what happens is absolutely outrageous. I have a very different view of America. One of hope and optimism like I hope all of you do. Optimism that Bobby Kennedy embodied.

I see America where we defend democracy, not diminish it. I see America where we protect our freedoms, not take them away. And I see an America where the economy grows from the middle out and the bottom up. In that way, the middle class does well and the poor have a shot. And where health care is a right, not a privilege.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, this wraps a three-day swing in Pennsylvania for President Biden as he also talked about the economy, something that voters have given him low marks on. And again, as he tries to tap into this legacy, even for when -- even against, I should say, a low polling candidate like Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And those state races, even a low poll can make a difference. Priscilla Alvarez at the White House, thanks so much.

To Capitol Hill now where right now House Republicans have been applying some pressure to Speaker Johnson to change a rule that could ultimately save his job. This comes as the threat to his speakership looms larger than ever. Before with his right flank up in arms over his latest attempt to push through a foreign aid package with much needed money for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan.

Melanie Zanona is on the Hill with the latest. Melanie, you and I have talked about this countless number of times over the last several weeks and months. It looks like this aid bill might finally get through. I almost don't want to say it out loud, but is that what you're hearing on the Hill?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, that is what it looks like at the moment. But the big question right now is whether Speaker Mike Johnson can pass those foreign aid bills and still keep his speaker's gavel.

That is something that he is still working on at the moment. And there have been a number of Republicans who have been lobbying Johnson in recent days to change the motion to vacate tool, and essentially make it harder for any single member to be able to force a floor vote.

If you remember, it was Kevin McCarthy who agreed to those terms to allow any single member to be able to force a floor vote, in the first place, as part of his terms to become speaker. Now you're seeing Republicans coming out saying, they need to change this. They need to do it before they actually move on the foreign aid package bills.

[15:45:00]

But that has sparked a new round of fury on the right, with some Republicans like Matt Gaetz and Lauren Boebert now coming out and saying that if Johnson were to change the rules, that they would then try to trigger the motion to vacate, and that would be a red line for them.

Now, Johnson has said he's not made any decisions about how to proceed. But we could see this all play out in the next few hours and that is because the House Rules Committee is going to meet later this afternoon to take their first vote on a procedural vote for that package of foreign aid bills. And that is where we would see the text of this potential motion to vacate.

So, just a lot to watch out for today and in the coming days, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Melanie Zanona, thanks so much.

Joining us now to share his thoughts on the speaker's predicament, but also crucially this aid for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan is Republican Congressman French Hill of Arkansas. Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time this afternoon.

REP. FRENCH HILL (R-AR): Delighted to be with you. Thanks for the invitation.

SCIUTTO: So first, if I could begin on the foreign aid bill, you've done your homework on this. You visited Ukraine. You yourself have supported it. We've seen a lot of stops and starts. Do you believe this foreign aid package will now pass the House in the coming days?

HILL: You know, I do. And I think that's because we've been off track since a few Republicans conspired to throw Kevin McCarthy out of office last October. So, we've not been able to get back onto this in the right way, having done our due diligence. But I think structuring this where members on both sides of the aisle can vote on Taiwan, Israel, Ukraine, essentially, separately, was essentially, in my view, where we were going to be last October.

So, I think we're in a position where this allows members to vote their conscience on this issue, put it back together and get this to the Senate.

SCIUTTO: What does this mean for the speaker's job? Do you think he loses his job over pushing this through?

HILL: I absolutely believe that Speaker Johnson has done the right thing. When he became Speaker, suddenly, out of the blue in October, Speaker Johnson was confronted with completing Fiscal 24 spending, reauthorizing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, and getting this supplemental support for our allies, Taiwan, Israel, and Ukraine. He's worked hard. He's now reached that point.

I think he recognizes the threats that people have made toward him. But he's committed to these objectives and he's completed two of the three. And I hope this weekend is successful in completing our responsibility in passing this defense supplemental.

SCIUTTO: We've been hearing from some Republicans, Don Bacon, among them saying it is time to change the rule, to raise the threshold for a motion to vacate. Do you believe Republicans have the votes to change that rule?

HILL: I'm not sure that Republicans have the votes on the House floor to change that rule just among our own party. And I think that remains to be seen. I'm sure that's in the speaker's calculus about this. It's not my view, having been in Congress now for nine years, that the speaker would be eager to change House rules between elections, and that he would probably prefer to do this after the national election in the fall. But we have got to have a situation where the minority and the majority can function here in the House. And so, I look forward to the debate and we'll see what happens.

SCIUTTO: You've been working with House Foreign Affairs Chair Congressman McCaul on a bill to provide foreign aid to Ukraine in a different way. Can you explain your argument for that and what your message is to members of your conference?

HILL: You bet. Well, I -- my background before I was in Congress was in finance. I was in the banking business. And so, I know the importance of collateral when it comes to financing. Russia has perpetrated this illegal invasion of Ukraine, and therefore I think it's the right thing to do to take frozen Russian assets, about $300 billion in Europe and the U.S., and use those to finance reconstruction and budget gaps in Ukraine.

The message is, look, this is better than using American taxpayer, French taxpayer, or United Kingdom taxpayer dollars. Let's use the Russian money, we call it the REPO Act. And it would give the president and leadership in Europe and Ukraine flexibility to use those funds for the benefit of Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: And there is support because we've heard European leaders call for exactly the same thing. And the way you described it there, it sounds like it could be the path, right? That you would use those funds for rebuilding as opposed to, necessarily, for weapons. And I wonder if you think that's the sweet spot on that proposal going forward, not just in this country, but overseas as well.

HILL: When I originally introduced this legislation, it was for Ukraine reconstruction. I did that just over a year ago.

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And so, yes, I view it as a way to rebuild Ukraine and use it for Ukraine's budget support, not per se to support the lethality, the military operation. And it -- look, I think there's flexibility if we have these funds in a trust fund, then it could back a Euro bond issue, it could back a loan, it could be used directly.

One could use the interest off the corpus, meaning the body of money. And I think this is the right way to go. And on April 16th, I got a vote in the Council of Europe. supporting this effort. So, you're right. There's a support on both sides of the Atlantic for this approach.

SCIUTTO: Before we go, just finally, would you like to hear Donald Trump express support for this latest aid package coming to the floor? Would you like to hear from him? He's going to be the GOP nominee.

HILL: I think it would be helpful for the president to voice support. You know, we've taken some comments that he's made and we put him to work in this bill by using a loan process for some of the aid to Ukraine. That's what Europe's done. President Trump suggested that. I think that's something that wouldn't be a -- something that would forestall this success.

And look, using Russian assets to rebuild Ukraine is a lot better than using American taxpayer resources. It seems like a classic proposal that President Trump would support.

SCIUTTO: Congressman French Hill, we appreciate you joining the program this afternoon.

HILL: You bet. Great to be with you. Thanks.

SCIUTTO: Coming up, calling all Swifties. The album drop that will be heard around the world, Taylor Swift's, "The Tortured Poets Department", it's going to be out at midnight. And we'll be right back.

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SCIUTTO: All right. Swifties. So, are you ready for it? We are just hours away from the release of Taylor Swift's newest album, "The Tortured Poets Department", which drops everywhere at midnight tonight.

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This is the pop superstar's 11th studio album since her 2022 Grammy award winning "Midnights". Fans have been eagerly awaiting this album drop. And to mark the moment, Taylor Swift, the self-proclaimed chairman of "The Tortured Poets Department" even collaborated with Spotify to launch a library exhibit in Los Angeles, dropping what fans call Easter Eggs. Clues of what's in store on that album.

"The Tortured Poets Department" is expected to break streaming and sales records with the chief programming officer and president for iHeartRadio, telling CNN, that it is, "Probably the most anticipated album ever that I've seen in my career." That's amazing.

The album includes 16 tracks, plus bonus songs, depending on which album cover you purchase. And features two artist collaborations, Post Malone and Florence and the Machine. A major moment in music, Taylor Swift officially entering a new era. It's going to be a big moment.

Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto. "Quest Means Business" is up next.

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