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Full Jury Panel Selected For Trump's Criminal Trial; Man Set Self On Fire Outside Court Where Trump Trial Is Underway; Jordanian FM Pushes For End To Conflict In Gaza. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired April 19, 2024 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:41]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It's 8:00 p.m. in London, 10:30 p.m. in Tehran, 12:00 p.m. in San Francisco, 3:00 p.m. here in Washington, and in New York, that's a live picture there. I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM and lets get right to the news.
Live pictures from the courthouse in Manhattan where we have a jury in place in the criminal hush money trial against former President Donald Trump after hundreds of prospective jurors filed in and out of over four days. Twelve jurors and six alternates have now been empaneled and the judge told them to be ready for opening statements to begin as early as Monday. We'll have more reporting and analysis on this historic criminal trial of a former president.
But, first, breaking news just outside that courthouse, right as that jury was seated, a man appeared to light himself on fire on the street. The NYPD responded. He was then taken away in an ambulance.
We are standing by for an NYPD briefing at those podiums right there about what exactly happened. We're going to bring that to you when it begins momentarily.
Joining me now for more is CNN's Marshall Cohen.
Marshall, what do we know about the person who let themselves on fire here? What are the circumstances?
MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Hey, Jim, obviously, an extremely disturbing sight outside of court earlier this afternoon. Our colleague John Miller reported in the last hour that this person who has not yet been identified, apparently spread some conspiracy theories about various financial schemes and other things like that that seemed to be a bit debased from reality. I'm assuming Jim, that we will get a lot more from the NYPD, as you mentioned, we are waiting for that press conference, which should begin anytime.
SCIUTTO: So tell us about the jury now. It moved fairly quickly several days to empaneled the jury, but as the judge had, it seemed predicted, and one wanted full jury empaneled 12 plus those six alternates with a plan at least to begin on Monday with those opening statements. COHEN: That's the plan. And things are moving as expected. You know,
we started this week on Monday, a historic moment, the first ever trial of a former president and more history will be made next week with opening statements expected on Monday. But the process with the jury honestly the whole world is watching this one.
But in some ways, it proceeded just like any jury I've seen lots of jury selection in other cases that are much less high profile, but the goal always is about, can you be fair? Can you be impartial? And we saw some of the people said, no, it's Donald Trump. I can. And other people that had been selected as jurors later came back and said, you know what, I don't think I'm up for it.
But they found enough people to fill the ranks, 12 jurors, six alternates. The foreperson of the jury, he is actually from Ireland. He's a New Yorker now, but interestingly, he's from Ireland.
Other jurors who are part of the 12, they are lawyers. There's a couple lawyers on there, English teacher, software engineer, a speech therapist, some of them have advanced degrees, some of them only have a high school diploma or a real cross of New York City. Those are the people that will be sitting in judgment of former President Donald Trump.
SCIUTTO: Marshall Cohen, monitoring events from inside the courtroom, ready to go back to that live shot outside the courtroom where we're waiting for the press conference to begin from the NYPD, podium still empty. When they do begin, well bring you those comments live.
Juliette Kayyem, our national security analyst, joining me now here.
Juliette, the pieces of information we have right now about this event outside the courthouse incomplete, but it appears that the person who set themselves on fire was carrying a flyer or some sort of message about NYU. So not related to events inside the courthouse?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It sounds like it. It sounds that the person took advantage of the media interests and that that's probably the link to the Trump trial at this stage. So what we're -- at least what we're hearing from other reporting we're doing now is he had in his head unfortunately, a lot of conspiracy theories that the none of them are aligned with the trial going on.
[15:05:08]
And what they're aligned to in terms of NYU, we're not sure. Is he a student? Is even affiliated? Is he someone who just lives in the area? But my, you know, based on my expertise, I would say at this stage and what we know so far this is a person who his interests was in the media, not in the trial, knowing that there would be tremendous coverage and concerns about security in particular, for the jurors, and the court proceedings.
SCIUTTOI: I wanted, Juliette, if there's a safety issue involved here, I was down at the courthouse earlier this week and yesterday, you have -- well, the media, the world right, covering this trial there. There's certainly a police presence but there were a lot of other folks wandering around, paying attention, looking for attention it seems shouting things on camera, driving trucks around the scene, and so on.
I mean, is there a broader security concern? Not just for the individual involved in this who clearly posed a threat to themselves, but is there a broader security concern for -- well, the man and the courtroom, the former president for others, gathered around covering this trial.
KAYYEM: Yes, the challenge the challenge here is, of course, this is a high-profile event in the middle of a city. And so you're only going to be able to make it so secure at this stage because even if you extended the perimeter further out, sort of let -- led all the madness that you were describing, sort of push it awake further from the courtroom, there's still going to be a non secure area on the other side of it where people will congregate, where there will be media and others who, who are, who are covering the event around the particular courtroom.
So the challenge for the safety and security planning at this stage is how -- how far do you want the perimeter security to be while still letting New York be New York, which had these two still function despite a very high-profile trial while still protecting the proceedings. Once you get in the courtroom, right. Once you're sort of in -- in it, you've got such a secure site, you've got multiple police agencies at the state and federal, I should say.
You have the U.S. marshals for the judge side, you have DHS for the courtroom and the federal -- any federal entities which would be the Secret Service, you have a state and local apparatus, and then you just have the general concerns and law enforcement, state and local that would --
SCIUTTO: Juliette, hold that thought. The press conference is beginning. Let's listen in.
KAYYEM: OK.
TARIK SHEPPARD, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, NYPD: Obviously, we had a major incident that took place right across the street from the courthouse today. We just spoke to the mayor, Eric Adams, and we spoke to the police commissioner. They both update get it. And today, you're going to hear from our chief for department, Jeffrey Maddrey, who will update you on an incident that took place you're going to hear from the Fire Commissioner Kavanagh on the condition of all the people that were involved in medical conditions. And then we'll have our chief of detectives, Jo Kenny, and he'll talk to you about the investigation of the incident today.
So with that, I'll bring up the chief for department, Jeffrey Maddrey.
JEFFREY MADDREY, NYPD CHIEF OF THE DEPARTMENT: OK, thank you. Thanks, Commissioner Sheppard.
Good afternoon, everyone. I'm going to try to talk loud so you can all hear me. But at 1:30 this
afternoon, right here in Collect Pond Park, which is directly opposite of New York County Criminal Court at 100 Center Street where the trial of former President Trump is currently taking place.
We observe a male walk into the park. He walks to the center of the park. When he's in the park, he starts shuffling around his clothes. He opens up a book bag. From the book bag, he takes numerous pieces of papers, pamphlets out. He throws the pamphlets throughout the park.
And then he pulls out a canister, and pours some kind of liquid on himself. A liquid we believe is an accelerant. And he lights themselves on fire.
The male, he takes a couple of steps why he's on fire and then eventually falls onto a police barrier and falls down to the ground. He's on fire in, another area in the park where some of the accelerant spilled is also on fire. Civilians called offices, members of the police department, they run into the park. They make efforts to put him out.
They use their coats, they use fire extinguishers. Eventually, FDNY responds. We're able to put the male extinguish the fire and from that point, we remove him to Cornell Burn Unit where right now he's there in critical condition.
At just -- at this moment, I'll let our fire commissioner talk about the condition of the male and the condition of people who also helped, and who were witnesses over there.
Commissioner?
LAURA KAVANAGH, NEW YORK CITY FIRE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
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As the chief mentioned, the victim is in critical condition but is alive and intubated at Cornell Burn Center at this time. There were four, three NYPD officers and one court officers, so four officers who had minor injuries from their exposure to the fire. They are all fine. They are stable and they are green tags, which is minor at this time.
We were on scene as the chief mentioned. EMS did treat and transport the patient and we do have our fire marshals here helping with the investigation at this time.
JOE KENNY, NYPD CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: Good afternoon, everyone. So that the male that's involved in this incident, his name is going to be Maxwell Azzarello, right. He's a male. He's born in 1987. His drivers license indicates that he's from St. Augustine, Florida.
Well, we know from speaking to other witnesses and family members, is that he arrived in New York sometime earlier in the week. We have his car being in St. Augustine, Florida on the 13th. So anyway, anyway, between the 13th and today he arrived. We spoke to family members today. They will unaware that he was even in New York. As the fire commission stated, he's at Cornell Burn Center right now and likely condition. So the accelerant that was used at appears to be some kind of alcohol-based substance that's used for cleaning and that's all we have right now.
SHEPPARD: When we go right down the line, left to right, we'll decide who's going to take what.
REPORTER: We want to ask about security. Obviously, there's (INAUDIBLE) NYPD officers (INAUDIBLE) strategy of what the protocol was before?
SHEPPARD: Listen, Mark, after every incident, we have an after action and we'll talk about if we're going to add offices or not. But just so you know, we had a lot of officers in the area. The -- it is open to the public is still walk through the park and so there was no security breach here at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eric Dersky (ph)?
REPORTER: Thanks, Chief.
Any evidence of a political motivation here to the pamphlets. Give me any clues as to why this occurred?
KENNY: The pamphlet seem to be propaganda based, almost like a conspiracy theory type of pamphlet. Some information in regards to Ponzi schemes and the fact that some of our local educational institutes are fronts for the mob. So, a little bit of a conspiracy theory going on here.
REPORTER: Chief, any indication if people here in the Bronx (INAUDIBLE).
KENNY: No, we're gong to go through all on this video, but what we've seen so far today, it appears that he walked from Leonard Street. He entered the park, walked into the middle of park, and it committed the act.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE).
KENNY: Very preliminary in dealing with the family so far, we just made notification to them that the incident had taken place.
REPORTER: How concerned are you that somebody was able to get this far in, light themselves on fire? Obviously, you said they're in critical conditions right now. How concerned are you that (INAUDIBLE)?
MADDREY: Thank you. We're very concerned. Of course, we're going to review our security protocols.
This gentleman did not breach the security protocols. The park was open to the public. But of course, were going to look at everything and what the magnitude of what's going on around right here. We'll reassess our security with our federal partners. REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
MADDREY: Like I said, we're going to go back -- we're going to go back to the command. We'll talk off partners and we'll make decisions if we need to tighten up security, maybe well shut down the park. This is something that will determine once we talked with all our partners, with the court offices, to make sure that with everything going on, the gravity of the event going on right now, we make sure whatever ample security.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Anthony (INAUDIBLE)?
REPORTER: Sir, from the video and from eyewitnesses, it took a few minutes or the police officers begin to get their hands on fire with (INAUDIBLE). Was there no presence over here (INAUDIBLE).
SHEPPARD: I'll give that -- I'll give that piece out to the fire commissioner, but obviously, we're working in partnership with courts, FDNY, all the city agencies that need to be over here or here. But you got to remember, the parks open to the public. So there's no reason for anybody who already have a fire extinguisher on standby. Nobody knew that this guy was about the light himself on fire.
So two minutes is a pretty quick response time to be able to get to a vehicle, get a fire extinguisher. Run around, get into the park and start trying to extinguish this fire, all right? But as far as FDNY resource, I let Commissioner Kavanagh just talk about what she may want to --
KAVANAGH: Yeah. As they mentioned, obviously, we'll work with NYPD to review what happened. And if additional resources are necessary, we'll replace them here.
But typically for any kind of major security event which this is, we have additional EMS resources on scene, fire only sometimes.
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There usually is not a reason for that is you typically would not have next to a public park, but we will work with NYPD to do that.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
KAVANAGH: I would have to confirm what time they responded. We'll get back to you, but we do typically in any kind of high security event, have more EMS resources on scene because there could be painting for any reason.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. We're going to take two, or three more.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
SHEPPARD: Not everything that you see right here as part of the plant. There's a large security plan for this. And trust me, when we had our meetings before this took place, we met with FDNY, EMS. We met with our court partners. We met with Secret Service. So I'm not quite sure what else you're looking for.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
SHEPPARD: Yeah. EMS -- EMS and FDNY in the area are doing this trial as well, and they've totally aware was going on and our response down today was pretty quick.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
SHEPPARD: Joe, do you want to talk about it.
KENNY: As of right now, what we've shown is that he just walked directly into the park and began to hit the throat of pamphlets in the air and then lit himself on fire. But still, that could be come out during our investigation, we have a lot of witnesses here, a lot of people are coming forward. We hope if more people come forward, we can put a little more information together. But as of right now, we don't have that what he's making any statements.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
KENNY: Yeah, we're looking through his social media and what he did online prior and it appears that he did post something in regards to this event prior to the incident.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
KENNY: All his social media is going to be scrubbed. Obviously, we didn't know him prior to this incident. I -- from I can talk for about the detective bureau. We didn't know him prior to this incident, but going back now, part of the investigation, all his social media or any associates, we'll be looking at all of it.
At this point, like I said, very preliminary. We don't have that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Emily --
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
KENNY: As of right now, he's considered likely, which means he's very critical. His condition is not good. But as of right now, he still alive.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
KENNY: We're looking through that right now. As five minutes ago before we started this press conference, I didn't see any criminal history in New York.
SHEPPARD: I know has been asked yet, but I just want Commissioner Daughtry stepped in for a second and just talk about what he did immediately after to make sure that the area is safe.
KAZ DAUGHTRY, NYPD DEPUTY COMMISSIONER OF OPERATIONS: Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Sheppard. Immediately following this incident, I requested a bomb squad to come.
I wanted to bomb squad search area for any type -- any possible secondary devices. They're actually doing this right now behind me with K9 checking all the vehicles. As it right now, there has been no additional devices found, has been any devices fired -- I'm sorry -- in regards to this incident.
So well be continuing to search this area, and as far as your question about enhance security procedures, we're going to take that look into this. Maybe we may have to shut this area down but that's something that were going to do. We're going to have a conversation. We get back to 1 Police Plaza. Thank you.
SHEPPARD: All right. Last couple right.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) you have on site right now?
SHEPPARD: Yeah. We're not going to talk about specific numbers, but obviously we're working with numerous city agencies and our federal partners over in this area.
Obviously, we're working with courts. We're working with the Secret Service. We're working with sanitation whose building is right here. We work with FDNY.
So there's a lot of city agencies that are part of this, but we won't discuss what number of personnel we have out here.
All right. Last -- last two.
REPORTER: Can you share what you told Donald Trump's Secret Service detail, his team (INAUDIBLE)
SHEPPARD: We're not going to share a conversation that we had with Secret Service, but everyone involved in the trial inside is aware of the incident that took place outside today.
Last one.
[15:20:01]
So, who do you want?
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)
SHEPPARD: That's on the investigation, but I'll let Joe Kenny talk about that.
KENNY: As of right now, on all those camera, we have him walking to the park. That doesn't mean that he didn't even take the train here or come here via a car.
SHEPPARD: Last one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last question. REPORTER: Yeah. So, a man was seen by multiple people carrying a sign that appeared to be somewhat anti-Trump, but earlier this week, you guys put up barricades for Trump supporters protesting and (INAUDIBLE). He lit on fire on the Trump supporter side.
Do you have any reason to believe that he was targeting Trump supporters?
SHEPPARD: As I think everybody who stepped up here said, said earlier, we do not believe he is -- this was targeting any particular person or particular group. We just right now labeled as sort of a conspiracy theorist. And we're going from there. But the investigation will continue.
Thank you, everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for your time and attention. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: All right. NYPD updating from the scene just outside the courthouse where criminal proceedings underway for former President Donald Trump, brief headlines from it. The attacker or the person who set himself on fire in the park there, they say is alive in critical condition now at the Cornell burn unit. Four other law enforcement officer sears, who responded, received minor injuries.
They identified the person as Maxwell Azzarello from St. Augustine, Florida, arrived in New York this week. And the motive here well, the best evidence they have as to the motive is that just before he lit himself on fire, he distributed pamphlets that contained according to police conspiracy theories about Ponzi schemes and the possibility of New York educational institutions being somehow tied to the mob.
Our Juliette Kayyem is with us here.
And to a question I asked you, Juliette, prior, they say the bomb squad is now looking to be sure there weren't any other explosive devices does not appear that they believe that there are. They said they were in touch with the Secret Service. Of course, president is -- the former president protected by Secret Service?
Does this raise questions about security around there? Because here's someone willing to light themselves on fire who was able to walk into that park there right across the street from the courthouse and do what he did?
KAYYEM: So they were very clear to say and to want us to know that the security procedures in place as of two hours ago, were not breach. In other words, he's not like he came into a secure area and something. And they want to make that clear. They'd made a decision earlier on when they were doing the security review is that they would keep the park open because you just simply can't close off a lot of blocks in New York City for this kind of event.
Question now is should they reconsider it? I -- one of the officials said we are going to look at the possibility of closing the part. That's a big deal. But probably something they will do just given what happened today.
But I -- you know, as I was talking before the press conference, you at some stage, your security apparatus is going to stop and on the other side of that, lots of bad things could happen. And I think that the challenge is how do you get that balance in such a unique situation?
SCIUTTO: No question.
KAYYEM: In case of a former president and New York.
SCIUTTO: And to be clear, these are active courthouses with any number of criminal proceedings going on. There are a number of court buildings there, and having been down there, just yesterday where this is, is really behind a couple of different cordons before you would get into the building where on the 15th floor? That is where the criminal proceedings are underway.
So the person got to a public park, but not beyond those other security measures to your point, Juliette.
Juliette Kayyem, thanks so much for helping us break it down.
KAYYEM: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: And still to come, the events from inside the courtroom, 12 jurors plus six alternates are now seated in a criminal trial of Donald Trump, which continues into its fourth day. The judge says, opening statements could begin on Monday. We're going to have an update on what's happening from inside the courtroom just -- just coming up.
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SCIUTTO: Welcome back.
Turning to the news now, inside the Manhattan courtroom, the 12 jurors, six alternates now seated in the people of the state of New York v. Donald J. Trump, among the diverse panel are an English teacher, a speech therapist, and investment bank, or a corporate lawyer? They vary in age industry. Some are immigrants. All have said they believe they can be fair and impartial, and will consider the evidence.
It is a major moment. Former President Donald Trump himself spent hours over four days listening to prospective jurors share their thoughts on him, answer questions, not all those thoughts about him were positive. And he is still effort in a new jury outside of Manhattan where he says he cannot get a fair trial. Just moments ago, we learned a New York appeals court will hear arguments this afternoon. On his change of venue motion, even as a jury in this venue, has now been set.
For more on all this, I want to bring in Jeff Swartz, former Florida judge, professor at Cooley Law School. He's been helping us navigate the trial all week.
Plus, Jo-Ellan Dimitrius, a jury consultant.
Jeff, I want to begin with you because he's trying again, he tried this before the trial he had asked the appeals court to stop the trial so they can consider a change of venue, denied then. Now he's appealed again.
They're going to hear it at 3:30. Well, in just about 2 minutes. Do you expect the appeals court to decide quickly on this?
JEFFREY SWARTZ, PROFESSOR, COOLEY LAW SCHOOL: I do expect them to decide very quickly. I think they're giving him the hearing that he asked to get as a result of the pleadings he's filed. I have not seen the grounds. I can see a few grounds that he might raise, but most of what he will complain about has been preserved for direct appeal if in fact he is convicted. There's a really great jury there. I don't think there's anything there that has been prejudicial that really stands for the purposes of change of venue at this point.
SCIUTTO: And by the law, the lawyers for the prosecution, but also the defense, they had -- they could make challenges for cause based on past I statements and they had a number of challenges, peremptory challenges where they didn't have to explain the reason. That is often how -- well, that's how jury selection works.
Jo-Ellan Dimitrius, when you look at this jury, were deliberately not sharing a great amount of detail about them, but based on this small -- the small details that have been made public, do you see a jury here that favors either side?
JO-ELLAN DIMITRIUS, JURY CONSULTANT: I see a jury that is really balanced on I think either side. And I think that the focus of jury selection and moving forward are the two lawyers because very clearly, we know in other lawyers have the ability to parse through jury instructions, which is great to most people. And they're going to rely -- this jury is going to apply at those two lawyers to help them through this process.
So, you know, we do know that one of the jurors to your question, originally from California, indicated that she's not a fan of President Trump and she thought that he was very arrogant. The defense tried to use a challenge for cause and was denied. So, you know, that's clearly one individual that may not necessarily favor President Trump.
SCIUTTO: But, Jeff, I have heard some lawyers say they don't like lawyers on juries because they think too much about the law. I wonder if you agree in your experience.
SWARTZ: I do. I think yesterday I kind of alluded to this first of all, I don't like a lawyer on a jury. As a judge, I absolutely don't want a lawyer on a jury, but two of them, if they disagree on anything. It's like a built-in hung jury.
SCIUTTO: Right. SWARTZ: It's just kind of the way it works.
SCIUTTO: I don't -- I really don't want as a judge or a lawyer in their spark parsing out the words or giving a different interpretation to the law than maybe is meant by the instructions. I just -- it just really messes things up and yes, jurors tend to lean on lawyers if they're on the jury and that's something I don't either want -- I don't want either.
I just -- it just doesn't make sense.
SCIUTTO: Jo-Ellan, before we go, there were 12 jurors, six alternate jurors now. That's by design because if there were -- well, personal issues, scheduling issues, family issues come up. But also I wonder if given we saw already some of the jurors earlier in the process, one in particular, scared away by the possibility of her identity being made public.
Do you envision that being a danger going forward for this jury?
DIMITRIUS: Oh, absolutely. It's a danger going forward. Doxxing the jurors, very clearly, people have figured out who these individuals are, much less what just happened in the park outside.
Granted it's not related to the trial, but the security concerns of those jurors must be absolutely phenomenal.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. Understand.
So, Jeff, what -- what can be done, right? I mean, there's been a deliberate effort, but including Trump himself to besmirch the whole process and say it's unfair. He shared a Fox News segment from earlier in the week that the question whether liberal activists were being snuck onto the jury. And by the way, here -- here is a defendant who himself has attacked members of the court, judges, their family members.
What is -- how does the court police that, police threats potentially or exposes of the juror -- of the jurors going forward?
SWARTZ: I don't know that there's much that the court can do. We have to rely upon media to act responsibly, to the same extent it's going to be apparent and I think somewhere along the line there are going to be exposure of who some of these people are. And they are going to be subject to some of the harassment that we have seen in the past. I don't think there's much that can happen unless you can tie it to the defendant. And under those circumstances, you're now looking at jury tampering, but I don't think you're going to be able to do that. I have some I've always had some concerns over those names being exposed, even to a defendant. In some cases, the lawyers aren't even allowed to tell the defendant who the jurors are.
I wonder, but before we go, Jo-Ellan, is there -- truly have more hope to some degree. I mean, I think the magic of jury trials, right, is that you get a collection of people from different backgrounds and most of the time, they take the job quite seriously and they move forward. And by the way, there have been high profile cases in this country before I know, not of a former president where jurors have been put under stress, but they move forward and they've done their job.
You have a lot of experience with juries before. Do you have hope for that outcome?
DIMITRIUS: Oh, that's certainly my hope and my hope to echo what Jeff Swartz just said, is that the media acts responsibly and does not in any way aggravate the elements of what is known about those jurors publicly so that, you know, there is some individual who might decide to further unveiled who these people are.
So I think as long as that happens, by the way, I'm also pretty sure that the security for the court has probably working with those 18 jurors in terms of how they get in and out for protecting them that way. Well, so I do have hope -- yeah, I do have high hope.
SCIUTTO: Jeff Swartz, Jo-Ellan Dimitrius, thanks so much for joining. I know it's not going to be the last time we talked about this case.
I do want to go back briefly to New York for the latest on just that terrible incident outside the court, a man setting himself on fire, police say he is in critical condition.
CNN's Mark Morales, he joins us now.
Mark, what else have you learned about the circumstances of this?
MARK MORALES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT REPORTER: Well, as far as we know, he's not -- law enforcement identifies him as the motive -- mostly conspiracy theories. Nothing directly related to the former President Trump, nothing related to President Biden, but this is more of -- more conspiracy theories. That's how the high-ranking NYPD officials described him.
And just to go over some of the details again. So around 1:30 in the afternoon, they spot this man who walks into the park, which is right across lets the street from the trial. They see him on surveillance camera. He reaches into his backpack, pulls out what seems to be some sort of an accelerant. Before that, he grabs a bunch of fliers and throws them in the air. And that's when he likes himself on fire. He was only on fire for a few minutes before NYPD officials, court officers, even people that were outside rush to put him out.
And this also brings into the forefront this question about security because while this court -- while this trial is going on at the courthouse, there is this question about security law enforcement partners have been working to really secure this area. And this park that's out here is -- it's open to the public, and this is something that NYPD officials in conjunction with other law enforcement officials are going to go back and discuss if there is anything because remember, there was no security breach. This man walked into a public park and that's where this happened.
SCIUTTO: Right. And there, of course, coordinates between where he was and the courthouse itself.
Mark Morales, thanks so much.
When we do come back, I'm going to speak to the foreign minister of Jordan about the ongoing tensions in the Middle East, the open confrontation between Israel and Iran and why he says Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, quote, is stealing the focus away from the ongoing crisis in Gaza. Do stay with us. He'll be with us when we get back.
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SCIUTTO: Welcome back.
Calls for de-escalation in the Middle East have come from London, Moscow, Beijing, and Cairo, as well as other capitals around the world after an overnight strike in Iran that U.S. officials tell CNN came from Israel. Exclusive satellite images obtained by CNN show there does not appear to be any extensive damage at the Isfahan airbase in Iran, which is believed to have been the target of the strike Israel has not commented, which is standard procedure for Israel following such strikes, Iran has not publicly identified the source of the attack.
This strike comes days after Iran launched a barrage of drones and missiles at Israel and sends a region already reeling from the war in Gaza into an increasingly precarious state. The United States was told about the attack ahead of time, but Secretary of State Antony Blinken reaffirm today, the U.S. was not involved.
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ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The United States has not been involved in any offensive operations. What we're focused on, what the G7 is focused on. And again, it's reflected in our statement and in our conversation is our work to de-escalate tensions.
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SCIUTTO: One of those cautioning against regional escalation is Jordanian Foreign Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Ayman Safadi. He joins me now to share his perspective.
Minister, thanks so much for taking the time this afternoon.
AYMAN SAFADI, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Jordan is literally caught between Israel and Iran geographically between the two.
What is your message now both to Israeli leaders and Iranian leaders?
SAFADI: We are indeed caught in between, Jim, our message is that this escalation serves nobody. It threatens a regional war. And as far as Jordan is concerned, we will not be a battleground for Israel and Iran, and neither of them should violate our airspace, endanger our security on our people, and we will not allow either to violate our airspace.
Our message, again, stop this escalation and focus on the real issue which is ending the massacres and the catastrophe that continue to unfold in Gaza.
SCIUTTO: I wondered did you convey a similar message before yesterday's strike?
SAFADI: Yes, we did our long-standing policy is that we do not allow a violation of our airspace. We communicated unequivocally to both sides that do not violate our airspace and do not drag us into your country clicked and we will not be your battleground.
SCIUTTO: I wonder, do you believe that the Israeli leader Benjamin Netanyahu wants a broader war in the region?
SAFADI: Well, I mean, he's the one who benefited most from the recent escalation. As you know, international pressure was mounting up six months into the killing and destruction of Gaza, more pressure was on him to stop the war. This was the perfect divergent. Now, we've seen how world attention shifted into this escalation and everybody started focusing again on the Israeli-Iranian conflict.
So yes, that escalation works to his advantage and what were trying to message out to Jordan is that do not allow this to happen, do not allow for attention to be diverted away from the real issue, which is the urgency and indeed imperative of ending this catastrophe in Gaza.
SCIUTTO: What is -- what is new here the new threshold, right, is a direct attack on each other's territory, Iran directly attacked Israeli territory.
And now, Israel directly attacked Iranian territory. Do you believe that Iranian leaders want to have a broader conflict as well, perhaps want to spark a direct conflict with the U.S.?
SAFADI: What we know for sure is that escalation is going to be extremely dangerous for everybody for us and the region and beyond into the broader world as well, particularly the U.S. -- which could be dragged into -- into this.
Iran retaliated to the Israeli attack on its embassy building in Damascus. It said -- well, it said then that it will do no more. Now, Israel retaliated, and I think again the party that benefits most from that is Benjamin Netanyahu, who wants to a push attention away from Gaza.
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We've long warned -- we've long warned that Netanyahu would want to drag the us and to confrontation and to, and to confrontation with Iran. And that should not happen because simply it will be devastating for the whole region.
SCIUTTO: You posted on X, of course, formerly Twitter today that the inhumane war on Gaza must end now, but it does appear that Israel is moving forward with plans for a broader incursion directly into Rafah. What do you say to Israeli leaders? Do you condemn -- would you condemn such an operation?
SAFADI: Absolutely. I mean, we condemn the whole operation into Gaza and we say to everybody that do not allow an invasion into Rafah because that would simply be a massacre, 1.5 million Palestinians have had are now in Rafah compared to the original population of 300,000, most of these live in shelters all of them, 1.2 of them, 1 million of them are refugees, displaced people. So that would be a massacre.
And the reality is Benjamin Netanyahu not listening to anybody that you are saying, do not invade Rafah. Europe are saying the not invade Rafah. We're saying -- the whole word is saying, but he's going ahead and doing what he wants to do because simply, Jim, he believes that he has immunity, that has been getting away with a lot of defiance even to the U.S., to the rest of the world.
For months, the whole word has been telling him, open up, crossing points for humanitarian supplies to go into Gaza, which is now, as a result of this policy is facing real famine and he did not listen. So we're face to with that reality in which Benjamin Netanyahu is challenging the rule of the whole international community and subjecting not only Gaza to a terrible, inhuman war, but its also hurting the interests of his own country because the amount of dehumanization, hatred, anger that is, that this war is just beyond belief.
And how are we going to navigate through that? To get to the strategic just peace that we all want is going to be a major challenge. What we say, stop this war, lets get back to politics and find a path to making just and lasting peace that will ensure the security of Palestinians and Israelis and everybody else in the region.
That is the message. That's where the focus should be. And that's where the whole effort of the world should be.
SCIUTTO: U.S. officials have repeatedly pressed Israel to restrict its military operations in Gaza, to allow more aid with limited success. You say that Netanyahu believes he can act with impunity. I wonder where this leaves the view of U.S. power in the region.
Do leaders in the region see the U.S as weak in the face of this?
SAFADI: Jim, I think we spoke about this not too long ago. For all of us now, are looking bad in the eyes of the public opinion in our region and beyond, because they see that no matter what we say, we're not being able to stop Israel from continuing with this war. So, yes, the standing of the U.S. is hurting, our own standing is hurting.
And now, with the latest escalation, I think Iran is trying to position itself as the champion of the Palestinian people when reality it is not because the war in Gaza has been ongoing for six months. It only reacted when its embassy was attacked.
So I think all of us are, are hurting and that's why it is imperative not just out of humanitarian human law the perspective, but also from real interest perspective. Israel should not be allowed to drug all of us further into the mud done and hurt all of our interests and diminish all of our standings in the region and beyond.
SCIUTTO: As you know, the U.S. voted no. And, of course, you are in New York now and attended these meetings at the U.N. Security Council. The U.S. voted no on a resolution calling for the establishment of a Palestinian state. The U.S. still supports a two-state solution. U.S. officials explained that in effect, now's too early. Now is not the time.
And I wonder what your response is to that no vote.
SAFADI: Look, we regret that this has happened. I mean, the U.S. is a major partner. Without the U.S. leading, I think we're going to be -- not going to be able to move the needle in any meaningful way towards achieving the peace. We need its involvement.
But the reality is that you ask does support the two-state solution, the whole world does, but Netanyahu does not. And not only is he -- is he saying he will not allow the two-state solution to materialize? He's taking actual measures on the ground that are undermining the viability of the two-state solution in terms of land confiscation, building of settlements, allowing settler terrorism into Palestinian villages.
So the question is, do we allow Netanyahu to doom the future of the whole region to more conflict and more war.
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Does he get a veto on a future of peace for the region? Or should he be stopped and allowed to again, doom the future of the region to more conflicts. So if, if we all come up with the best plan for peace and we all agree that a two-state solution is the only way forward, do we allow Netanyahu to stop us from doing that, or do we leverage all that we've got to push for that solution and stop Netanyahu from killing the prospects for peace for the sake of Palestinians Israelis, the horror region and definitely the U.S. as well.
SCIUTTO: There are other players here though, of course. I mean, you have Hezbollah, which is launching rockets, artillery into northern Israel that has led many tens of thousands of Israelis to move south, in effect, away from their homes.
You have Iran that has set a new standard in effect of directly attacking Israeli territory. What are the pressure points for Hezbollah? Of course, very much tied to Iran and Iran and for Hamas too. What are the pressure points for them to accept in effect, the other half of a two-state solution, which is the existence of the Israeli state in peace?
SAFADI: Look, I mean, the whole Arab world has said that will recognize and not only recognize, but have normal ties with Israel and guarantee its security within the context of a broader piece that will end the occupation of the Palestinian territories and allow for the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Once we do that, we will, all of us will be able to stand up against anybody who's trying to threaten the peace and security of all of us. And now, Iran -- Iran says it is attacking Israel. It goes after Israel because of the occupation of the Palestinian people.
If we end that occupation, what argument will Iran have? All of us in the region, the Palestinians included will say, stay away from our business, do not interfere in our affairs and do not spoil our lives and we'll take care of that.
But in the absence of that solution, in the absence of political horizons for that solution, and this is not just since October 7, Jim. I mean, for decades, since Netanyahu took power, obviously, he killed every chance for peace.
So that is the dynamic that we have. We can either allow the radical so dictate the future, or we can take the lead and move towards creating that peace. And we're ready in the Arab world. All of us are ready. The Arab peace initiative goes back to the year 2002.
What we don't have in an Israeli partner who is willing to seriously, meaningfully engage. And I think the question that should be put to Israel very directly and I ask you, please ask an Israeli official, what kind of future what do what do they want if they don't want the two-state solution, just tell us, what is the solution that they believe will bring about peace and security to the region?
The way we see, the only alternative to the two-state solution is apartheid, and one state's reality. And that will not be a solution. That will be an ugly reality because apartheid will then be institutional and that will just lead to more conflict.
So again, Iran, Hezbollah, all the radicals on both sides. Will have no argument and we'll have all of us up against them if we have a peace based on the two-state solution. The Palestinians have the right to statehood and freedom, and Israelis have the right to security and being part of the region.
SCIUTTO: Well, we hope to see that peace in our lifetime. So, Foreign Minister Ayman Safadi, thanks so much for joining the program this afternoon.
SAFADI: Thank you so much, sir. Appreciate it.
SCIUTTO: And we will be back with more right after this break.
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SCIUTTO: Before we go after a week of sometimes heavy news, we did want to leave you with -- well, pandas. In California, San Francisco is now the latest U.S. city set to receive pandas from China as part of the country's panda diplomacy. The Golden Gate city's mayor, London Breed, announced the panda deal. They are expected in 2025. She announced in Beijing earlier today.
There are currently only four giant pandas here in the U.S. The San Diego Zoo revealed back in February that they would also be receiving pandas from China. China has had a longstanding tradition of sending pandas to other countries to promote international relations and wildlife conservation, an act of panda diplomacy or panda-plomacy, as we say.
Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.
"Quest means business" is up next and we hope you have a great weekend.
