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U.S. Secretary Of State Antony Blinken Arrives In Saudi Arabia; Students And Children In Gaza Thank Pro-Palestinian Protesters At U.S. College Campuses; Tesla Owner Elon Musk Meets Chinese Officials; Some U.S. Troops Being Withdrawn As Russian Moves Troops In; Biden Confers With Netanyahu On A Possible Cease-Fire and Hostage Deal; U.S. Senator Wants to Help Normalize Israeli-Saudi Relations; Report: Israel Behind Rising Settler Violence in West Bank; Pope Francis Visits Venice Amid Health Scares; EPL Title Race Down to Two Teams: Man City and Arsenal. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired April 29, 2024 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[01:00:26]

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes. Appreciate your company. Coming up on CNN Newsroom. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is in Saudi Arabia hoping to mediate a ceasefire in Gaza. But could a potential hostage deal stop the planned Israeli incursion into Rafah by a Minister Benjamin Netanyahu whose government divided on that answer.

As college students across the U.S. protests the war in Gaza, displaced Palestinian students have a message for them. Thank you. And with Washington set to withdraw troops from Chad and Niger, we'll look at the impact on counterterrorism as African countries formed closer ties with Russia and China.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from Atlanta. This is CNN Newsroom with Michael Holmes.

HOLMES: The U.S. ramping up diplomatic pressure surrounding hostage release and ceasefire talks involving Israel and Hamas. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken arrived in Saudi Arabia a short time ago, where he will meet with Arab officials. Blinken expected to discuss aid to Gaza, as well as how to achieve a quote, lasting peace and a pathway to a Palestinian state. The Saudi Foreign Minister weighing in on that on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRINCE FAISAL BIN FARHAN AL SAUD, SAUDI MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Is in everybody's interest in the region. Our interest, the interest of the Palestinians, the interest of Israelis the interest of the global community of nations, that we find a pathway to resolve this issue once and for all.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HOLMES: Also, on Sunday, a phone call between U.S. President Joe Biden and the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a source describing the call as constructive, focusing primarily on freeing more hostages held by Hamas, as well as whether any potential hostage and ceasefire deal can be reached. But aid to Gaza and the situation in Russia were also priority issues.

U.S. wants to see a concrete plan from Israel on how civilians in Rafah would be protected in the event of a ground operation. And Israeli official telling CNN the IDF will continue to prepare for that operation, even if there is a hostage deal. Journalist Elliott Gotkine now with more on the latest talks and how Netanyahu is decision on Rafah could affect his own government stability.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELLIOTT GOTKINE, JOURNALIST: Even before Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Biden's conversation on Sunday, there was reaction in anticipation of their conversation from the hard right ministers in his governing coalition, namely National Security Minister Itamar Ben- Gvir and finance minister Bezalel Smotrich, effectively saying that if Netanyahu agrees to shelve the operation, to go into Rafah the planned operation that they would effectively leave the governing coalition, they would leave the government.

Now Israel hasn't said that it would cancel the operation. Quite the contrary. What we're hearing from officials is that even if there is a temporary ceasefire, which sees a number of Israeli hostages who were abducted on October the seventh, freed from captivity, that the Rafah operation would still go ahead and will simply be postponed.

Now, as Biden and Netanyahu are having their conversation, hostage talks between Israel and Hamas mediated by Egypt are ongoing, though that hasn't been a breakthrough. But neither have these talks broken down Israel and the United States saying that the stumbling block the main stumbling block remains how muscles insistence that for there to be a deal to free a number of hostages, that Israel has to agree to a complete cessation of hostilities and withdrawal of all of its forces from the Gaza Strip something Netanyahu has in the past described as a delusional demand.

Now at the same time over the weekend, Hamas released yet another hostage video this time of Israeli American hostage Keith Siegel and also Israeli hostage Omri Miran. Now both men, this is the first time that they've been seen so it's the first proof of life there's been since they were abducted as part of the Hamas led terrorist attacks of October the seventh.

At the same time that clearly designed to galvanize the Israeli public to put pressure on the Israeli government to come to the table and to do the deal that Hamas is demanding. At the same time, it's designed to put pressure on the United States because two of the three hostages that have appeared in Hamas hostage videos over the past couple of weeks have been American citizens.

Now the other development over the weekend is that World Central Kitchen, seven of whose aid workers were killed in Israeli airstrikes earlier this month.

[01:05:00]

It says it will resume its aid deliveries, its operations in the Gaza Strip on Monday because of the continued dire humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip. Elliott Gotkine, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Dozens of students and children in Gaza are thanking the pro- Palestinian protesters at U.S. colleges nationwide for their support. They spray painted messages of gratitude on makeshift tents, which now serve as a shelter for displaced Palestinians in Rafah.

One message reads quote, thank you students in solidarity with Gaza. Your message has reached us. The demonstrations continue to grip major universities across the US. And some of those college campuses have been shaken by some unrest like at the University of California, Los Angeles, where physical altercations broke out between protest groups after a security barrier was breached.

A UCLA official says the school condemns the violence and onside security measures have been increased, some UCLA protesters speaking up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've seen it historically that when the students decide to unite, that the people will rally behind them. So this is no surprise to me. I know that the American public is not OK with their own taxpaying dollars going to fund Israel. And they're also not OK with students paying tuition and their money going to fund Israel set of funding their investments here as students.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were pepper sprayed, we were pepper sprayed, and they also threw stink bombs at us. It was disgusting. Somebody stole my sign. They really, really believe in intimidating. They were trying to say they were cussing at us saying terrible things. I believe in protests. I do. But not like this, not like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Meanwhile, there is a deadlock at New York's Columbia University. The epicenter of these demonstrations were student protesters saying talks with the administration have slowed. CNN's Polo Sandoval with more on that.

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POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And you speak to the Columbia students who are actively engaged in negotiations with Columbia University, they will tell you that those talks are at an impasse. Now they have seen some progress when it comes to some of their demands, including for complete transparency. It's number one that is the really big sticking point here divestment, which is they are asking for all financial ties between the university and tech or weapons companies with Israeli ties be completely cut.

If you look back through history, you will find that there have been many other calls for divestment. Some have actually been successful, including in 1968. That's when Columbia students occupied several buildings, including Hamilton Hall that you see often the distance by doing so raising awareness of the Vietnam War.

In 2015, a year-long campaign made Columbia University the first to divest from private prisons. And then a few years later, on those very steps that you see off in the distance in front of the library. That's where a group of climate activist students staged the hunger strike to divest from coal and fossil fuels.

But perhaps the most successful calls for divestment came in the 80s when students called for the cutting off of financial ties between the university and South African companies during the apartheid and that is when once again and Hamilton Hall we saw this occupation of students that eventually led to a trustee vote that would make Columbia University the first Ivy League to cut said ties. And that is the kind of legacy that is certainly not lost on all of the young people that we have seen in this encampment and is really why the reason why they are reluctant to pack up and leave.

Now in terms of Columbia University, they are certainly still under pressure. What will the administration do? Well, they once again turn to the NYPD for assistance in clearing out this encampment, which was previously made them the subject of investigation from the Columbia University Senate, or do they allow them to remain as the big graduation commencement ceremony nears, and this very spot in a matter of weeks. Palo Sandoval, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: One school is listening to its students' calls to cut ties with companies that support Israel Portland State University in Oregon says it will temporarily pause receiving gifts and grants from the Boeing Company. Boeing has a long history with Israel, providing the nation's forces with various products while contributing billions to the Israeli economy.

The school's president says the break will last until the college holds a forum next month to debate the situation further. Boeing declined to comment on the announcement.

U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders expressing his support for the ongoing pro-Palestinian anti-war protests on U.S. college campuses. But he stresses the Need to condemn antisemitism and other forms of bigotry as he put it.

Here's what he told CNN earlier.

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BERNIE SANDERS, U.S. SENATEA INDEPENDENT: Antisemitism is a vile and disgusting ideology, which has resulted in the deaths of many, many millions of people in the last 100 years. And we've got to oppose it in every form. And do I doubt for a moment that antisemitism exists and is growing in the United States that is pot that exists among some people in the protest movement, of course.

But here is the reality. Right now, what Netanyahu was right wing, extremist and racist government is doing is unprecedented in the modern history of warfare. They have killed in the last six and a half months, 33,000 Palestinians, wounded 77,000, two-thirds of whom are women and children. They have destroyed over 60 percent of the housing. They have destroyed the health care system. They have destroyed the infrastructure, no electricity, very little water and right now, we are looking at the possibility of mass starvation and famine in Gaza.

When you make those charges, that is not antisemitic, that is a reality. So our job is to condemn Hamas terrorist organization that started this war, condemn in every form antisemitism, Islamophobia and other forms of bigotry. But we do have to pay attention to the disastrous and unprecedented humanitarian disaster taking place in Gaza right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Still to come here on the program, great power competition in Africa as U.S. troops leave bases in Chad and Niger. We'll look at what it means for Washington's rivalry with Russia and China.

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HOLMES: Tesla CEO Elon Musk met with Chinese Premier Li Qiang during a trip to Beijing on Sunday. Chinese state media reporting that during the meeting, Li said Tesla's development in his country could be seen as a successful example of cooperation between the U.S. and China.

Musk reportedly said that Tesla's Shanghai factory is the company's best performing. Tesla's full self-driving software has been out for years but it's still not available in China.

The Biden administration is scrambling to beef up ties with Africa amid its planned withdrawal of U.S. troops from some African countries. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo traveled to Kenya last week with a message that Washington wants to ramp up trade and investment in the region. CNN's Larry Madowo sat down with the secretary for this exclusive interview.

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GINA RAIMONDO, U.S. SECRETARY OF COMMERCE: We want to invest we want to be the partner of choice. We're not going to force you to choose us.

[01:15:00]

We think were the best. We think we offer opportunities consistent with your values of freedom and democracy. And so we want to be the partner that you choose to work with.

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So Secretary, why is the U.S. the best over say, China or Russia, that also making big moves into the continent? Why the U.S. the best for African countries?

RAIMONDO: Because like you, we are a democracy. You know, like you, we believe in freedom. We believe in an open internet. We believe in the market entrepreneurialism that you have here, there aren't strings attached, it's an opportunity to partner together. And also, I mean, the U.S. has best tech companies in the world, deepest capital markets, best protection of IP. So that's why we think with a partner of choice.

MADOWO: The suggestion here is that there are strings attached to these partnerships with Russia or China, even though they say they don't have colonial baggage. And we want to lecture you about human rights. We're just trying to be good partners for you better than, say, Europe or the US.

RAIMONDO: You know, I just met with President Ruto had a fantastic meeting. And I said to him, we're not here to lecture, we're here to partner, we're here to learn from you. We're here to invest in your people and in your country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Not all African countries believe partnership with the U.S. or the West more broadly is the best option. Officials in Washington are set to withdraw some troops from Chad temporarily at least as the two reevaluate their security relationship. It comes after a similar announcement that U.S. troops will be withdrawn from neighboring Niger after a junta seized power last year.

Cameron Hudson is a senior fellow at the Africa program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. He joins me now. It's good to see you, sir. Niger is just the latest of several African countries wanting the U.S. and also Western European nations, like France out militarily. It's a growing list. Why this trend?

CAMERON HUDSON, SENIOR FELLOW, AFRICA PROGRAM CENTER FOR STRATEZGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Well, I think it's a couple of reasons. One, it's quite popular among African publics in these countries right now, to demonstrate some sovereignty from traditional military and security partners. So we're seeing these moves met largely with public approval, especially from military regimes, which are really struggling to gain popular support, right, they're not democratically elected. And so they really rely on these kinds of shows of strength to shore up their domestic support at home.

HOLMES: Yes.

HUDSON: But I think also you're just seeing these new entrants, whether it's Russia or China, or Saudi Arabia or Turkey, there's a host of countries that have now identified these African states as strategic to their world outlook, and they're coming to Africa in droves. And really, I think sending a message to Washington and Paris, that they're not the only game in town anymore.

HOLMES: Yes, we were seeing that in Niger. It was it's a pattern really Mali, Burkina Faso as well, though Wagner mercenary group entering both of those countries shortly after the French pulled out. What will be the security impacts in a counterterrorism sense for the U.S. when Russia and China are moving in?

HUDSON: Well, I think for starters, you're seeing Washington lose the drone base that it's been operating in Niger air for the past several months, those drone operations have continued. And they've been continuing to supply the United States alone with intelligence over not just Niger, but a dozen different African countries all across the region.

So Washington becomes blind to the movement of Jihadist forces, arms flow, weapons, trafficking, drug trafficking all across the region. But we're also seeing that without the kind of strong partnership from Washington in particular, where we have seen, for example, in Niger gains against terrorist insurgencies in the country, that there's likely to be real setbacks, and we're seeing that in places like Mali, we've seen it in other countries where the Wagner group has come in promising to make gains on the terrorist front, but really, I think they they're managing a dual kind of interest in these countries.

Yes, appearing to help to shore up African governments but also pursuing their own economic interests in these countries.

HOLMES: Yes, yes. And in some cases, the terrorism itself has gotten worse. I mean, it's so when it goes back to the core issue is Washington itself and don't want to generalize here but you know, seen as a bad actor, you know, self-interest above all backing strong men, or dictators when it suits or toppling those or helping to topple those they don't like.

How is the U.S. hurt itself with its policies and actions on the continent?

HUDSON: Well, I think there's a real lack of self-awareness from Washington for a long time. I think U.S. officials have believed that because they were not at the Congress of Berlin over 100 years ago carving up the African continent.

[01:20:00]

That they didn't have any colonial states on the continent, that they were somehow immune from the kind of criticism that we hear from a lot of governments these days pushing back against the kind of colonialist rule of Western powers.

But I think what Washington ignores is their control over institutions like the IMF and the World Bank, their imposition of demands around democracy and human rights, all of these things are, are viewed, I think, by many, certainly these junta governments across a large part of the Sahel as a kind of a neo colonialism. And so I would argue that what we're seeing now is a resurgence of a kind of neo independence or neo sovereignty movement among these countries right now. HOLMES: Yes, that's fascinating. I mean, many see the region, you know, certainly the Sahel, perhaps of Western Africa as an epicenter of global terrorism in many ways, is Washington going to be increasingly blind to the plans of jihadi groups? You know, what are the risks of violence in the region spreads beyond the region and the West isn't ready for it?

HUDSON: Well, Washington is already making plans to try to reestablish drone bases and intelligence collection in neighboring African states. So we know that they have sent emissaries to Benin, to Ghana, to Cote d'Ivoire, all along the sort of matoro coast of West Africa.

So they are looking for fallback options right now. So that they don't, you know, they don't miss what's happening around the continent. But it's also clear that this is a major setback for Washington that not having these bases where they have made these investors investments is both a practical setback, but I think symbolically as well, by seeing Washington sent packing from these countries and certainly when you see Russia moving in, in some cases, the same week that you see Washington negotiating and exit the symbolism there is I think, quite tele and quite rich for African countries.

HOLMES: yes. Great analysis. Good to see you. Cameron Hudson, thanks so much.

HUDSON: Thank you.

HOLMES: At least 103 people have now died from flooding in Kenya, according to government officials. Rescue operations are ongoing for people trapped by the floodwaters. But those operations are risky. The Red Cross says a boat carrying people to safety capsized on Sunday. 23 were rescued. Others are missing. However, intense rainfall has inundated much of the East African nation. Other countries including Tanzania and Burundi have been affected as well.

And more than 4 million people in the U.S. are still under tornado watches as a multiday severe weather system continues to move across the country. According to the US Storm Prediction Center there have been nearly 500 storm reports since Thursday, including more than 135 reports of tornadoes.

And at least four people are dead including an infant after a tornado outbreak in Oklahoma overnight Saturday. At least 22 tornadoes have been confirmed across the state according to the U.S. National Weather Service, several of which were on the ground simultaneously.

An early survey of the damage confirms the strongest ones had winds of at least 219 kilometers an hour. The governor issuing an emergency disaster declaration on Sunday and saying that virtually every business was wiped out in one of the hardest hit towns.

When we come back here on CNN Newsroom, we'll will dive deeper into U.S. President Joe Biden's phone call with Israel's Prime Minister and look at other U.S. diplomatic efforts in the Middle East. Plus, a Human Rights Watch report says Israel is responsible for the

rise in violence against Palestinians by settlers in the occupied West Bank. We'll have details on that as well.

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HOLMES: Welcome back, everyone. You're watching CNN Newsroom with me Michael Holmes. U.S. President Joe Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke by phone for nearly an hour on Sunday and source telling CNN the two leaders primarily talked about a potential hostage deal.

Let's say they also discussed a possible Israeli invasion of Rafah, according to a White House read out, Mr. Biden stress that the U.S. wants to see a clear plan to protect civilians.

Meanwhile, the Palestinian Authority President told the World Economic Forum that the U.S. should use its influence to prevent an attack on Rafah.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHMOUD ABBAS, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY PRESIDENT (through translator): Because all the Palestinians from Gaza are gathered in Rafah and only one small strike would force them to flee the Gaza Strip. And here the biggest catastrophe in the history of the Palestinian people would then happen. We hope that Israel stopped from carrying out this attack.

And we call on the United States of America to ask Israel to not carry on the Rafah attack, because America is the only country able to prevent Israel from committing this crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: CNN's Priscilla Alvarez now with more on the discussions between us and Israeli leaders.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Biden on Sunday spoke with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and a call that was primarily focused on a hostage deal, not according to a source familiar.

Now this call lasted just under an hour and was described by the sores as constructive. Of course, U.S. officials have been working around the clock to try to reach an agreement that would allow for a temporary ceasefire for about six weeks, and also the release of hostages held by Hamas. And for more humanitarian aid to get searched into Gaza.

Senior U.S. officials have been traveling to the region over the last several months to try to advance these talks. And Secretary of State Antony Blinken headed to the Middle East on Sunday, where he too will be involved in these conversations, as well as conversations about getting more aid into Gaza.

Now the president and the Israeli prime minister also touched on other issues, including, for example, around the airstrikes against Israel and Israel's airstrikes against Iran, the first time they've discussed that since that occurred earlier this month, and about Rafah, that's an area where Israel has said that they would potentially launch an operation, it's also where there are over a million Palestinians displaced.

And according to a White House readout, it said quote, the leaders discussed Rafah and the President reiterated his clear position, that position from the U.S. being that an operation at this point would be untenable. Of course, those conversations are ongoing.

Now, what happens after this call and the results of it are still unclear, but what we will be monitoring in the weeks to come. Priscilla Alvarez, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: U.S. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham says he wants to see Israel and Saudi Arabia normalize diplomatic relations, and is positioning himself as an unlikely ally to the White House. He told CNN he'd like to help in those efforts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDSEY GRAHAM, U.S. SENATE REPUBLICAN: I want to help them normalize Saudi Arabian Israel. Saudi Arabia wants a mutual defense agreement the United States. We've been working on this for weeks to Tony and Jake get on with closing the deal on the treaty. Without the treaty MBS cannot recognize Israel and part of the deal will be coming up with a solution to the Palestinian problem.

You know, Saudi Arabia wants to defense agreement with the United States and want to enrich the 7 percent of the world's uranium they have but will control enrichment, and they'll recognize Israel, but we got to deal with the Palestinian problem. We're running out of time.

This would be an historic agreement building on the Abraham Accords. And I'd like to see it happen. I'd like to help President Biden gifted stand without this deal there is no solution to the Palestinian problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[01:30:05]

HOLMES: Now before the October 7 attacks, Israel and Saudi Arabia had been taking steps, facilitated by the U.S. towards normalizing. Riyadh signaled that a deal could still be on the table as recently as January.

Meanwhile, international attention is focused, of course, on the war in Gaza. A Human Rights Watch report says Israeli settler violence against Palestinians has escalated in the occupied West Bank.

The report says the Israeli military has either taken part in or not protected Palestinians from these attacks by settlers, resulting in entire communities being displaced.

It also accuses Israeli settlers of assaulting, even torturing Palestinians along with stealing their belongings and livestock and threatening to kill them if they refuse to leave their homes.

The U.N. has recorded more than 700 settler attacks and at least 17 Palestinian deaths and 400 wounded between October 7 and April 3rd. Those numbers have probably gone up since then with soldiers by the way, in uniform present at nearly half of the attacks.

Omar Shakir is the Israel and Palestine director of Human Rights Watch. He joins me now from Amman in Jordan.

It's good to see you, sir. As we just outlined the U.N. recording more than 700 settler attacks facts in the occupied West Bank between October 7 and April 3 people killed, injured; homes, cars, orchards damaged; villagers forced to flee.

What has been the broad impact of these attacks on Palestinians?

OMAR SHAKIR, ISRAEL AND PALESTINE DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: It's hard to describe how stark the situation has become in the West Bank with all the focus on Gaza, when it comes to settler violence, you have entire parts of the map in which entire Palestinian communities have been uprooted, where areas existed that no longer exists today. At least seven communities entirely uprooted and people from 20 communities.

This is the highest level of settler violence since at least 2006. We're talking about multiple incidents per day.

And let's be clear, this is not an example of a few bad apples, as you noted in your introduction, in many cases, Israeli forces have been present. In some cases they have participated in these attacks.

These settlers have been armed by the Israeli government, the U.S. State Department is almost certainly this includes U.S. arms. They are held systematically not accountable for their actions. They have been egged on by Israeli officials.

The Israeli government has taken thousands of settlers, and formed them as reservist in regional defense forces. I can go on and on but the point is the responsibility belongs with the Israeli government.

HOLMES: Yes. Yes.

I mean, many cases there were settlers in military uniforms too, even if they're not in the IDF, they're certainly dressing to look like it. And what do you think the broad strategy of the settlers is particularly as you say, with the world's attention on Gaza? How emboldened are they under this particular government? SHAKIR: I mean this particular government has directly told them, many

senior officials telling them, go ahead, commit violence. We'll ensure you're not held to account.

Look, these are not happening in random locations. You open a map of the West Bank and you realize that they're taking place in strategic areas that the Israeli government has long sought to expand settlements to grow their presence, to force out Palestinian communities.

Palestinians have been under occupation for more than half a century, but coercive policies, home demolitions, denying them access to water, electricity have not done what these months of settler violence have done, which is to force them out of their homes.

When you take away a family's means of livelihood, their livestock; when you threaten them, when you threaten their children, when you destroy their schools and homes, you leave them with no choice but to leave.

And they're doing it in key areas in the south Hebron Hills in the central Jordan Valley in the West Bank. All areas that the Israeli government has long sought to depopulate Palestinians for settlements.

HOLMES: And is there any recourse for Palestinians? Does Israel's government, the military, the police who are meant to be enforcing the law, do they do anything when these attacks happened or land is stolen or property damages, or people killed. Is anyone held accountable.

[01:34:44]

SHAKIR: Almost never. I mean, when it comes to settler violence an Israeli human rights group has tracked thousands of complaints issued over the years against Israeli settlers and the vast majority result in no indictments.

This is not simply a case of, you know, slow movement by the authorities. It's a structural problem. The army is there to protect the settlers and they're the ones who are most present.

It's the police that have some sort of mandate to protect Palestinians, but they're almost never on hand. And an almost all cases there is no actual accountability. There's nothing more terrifying for Palestinian to know that they could be attacked, they could be forced from their homes, they could be killed and those that carried out will face no consequence.

HOLMES: We're almost out of time, but I wanted to ask you this because Antony Blinken is going back to the region. He still talks about a two-state solution but realities. Netanyahu has explicitly said that's not happening on his watch. We've seen settlement growth, land occupied, and the positions taken by his government.

Is a viable contiguous Palestinian state, even possible, given what Israel has for years like to call facts on the ground. SHAKIR: Look I mean, these facts -- we're talking about 10 percent of Israel's population living in the occupied West Bank. We're talking about settlements and have continued to grow and expand, Palestinians forced off their land for decades.

But I think there's been so much focus on a potential solution that we forget the problem that necessitates a solution. Human rights abuse structural oppression, apartheid. These are not symptoms, these are causes they need to be addressed.

Settlers should be sanctioned, senior Israeli government officials need to be sanctioned. There needs to be an end to trade with settlements. There needs to be accountability at the International Criminal Court and other serious form for these abuses.

These are the kinds of due courses that are needed to get to any solution, all of which is very far away. We need to recognize the reality for what it is and take actions to ensure non-complicity. U.S. arms should not be going to fuel abuses and to ensure accountability for those who perpetrate serious crimes.

Victims have faced a wall of impunity for decades that must end.

HOLMES: Omar Shakir there in Amman, thank you so much.

SHAKIR: Thank you.

HOLMES: Now, in the coming hours, Spain's Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez is expected to announce whether he will remain in office. On Sunday, thousands of his supporters rallied in Madrid urging him to stay on the job. He shocked the country last week when he said he was considering resigning from the premiership after a Spanish court began a business corruption investigation into his wife's private dealings.

Socialist Party supporters say they stand behind the prime minister.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NOEMI MARTIN, PROTESTER AND PUBLIC WORKER: I came because this cannot be tolerated. I have come because we cannot let a government that is legitimately in power that has been elected by the people all because of false allegations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Mr. Sanchez denies the allegations against his wife saying its part of a sustained campaign against him by political opponents.

Now, despite recent health concerns, Pope Francis traveled to Venice for his first trip outside of Rome this year. Crowds eager to see the 87-year-old pontiff as he made one of his increasingly rare visits.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Crowds gather in Venice for a sight they haven't seen in seven months. Pope Francis making his first trip out of Rome since September after canceling other appearances in recent months for health reasons.

But on Sunday, presiding over a mass to a crowd of more than 10,000 in St. Mark's Square, the 87-year-old pontiff seemed in high spirits though he did admit being the leader of roughly 1.3 billion Catholics worldwide, is a demanding job.

POPE FRANCIS, PONTIFF, ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): I take you with me in prayer. And you too, do not forget to pray for me because this work is not easy.

HOLMES: It was a packed day for the Pope visiting a women's prison where the Vatican was holding its exhibit for an international art show.

Taking a water taxi to speak with young people, riding in a mini-Pope mobile or wheelchair throughout the lagoon city. Venice recently imposed the five-euro entry fee for day-trippers to cut down on tourism traffic. But for many locals, this was a thrilling visit.

LARA VOLPE, ENERGY CONSULTANT (through translator): It's a bit difficult to explain the emotion one feels in front of this person. I mean, the idea that all the world's people go to Rome and the Vatican to see him.

And for us who have him here close to home, it's an honor.

HOLMES: During mass, the Pope addressed some of the challenges that Venice faces from overtourism to climate change. But he also admired its enchanting beauty, a city that is aging but ageless, resilient in the wake of many modern-day problems -- something this pope knows a little something about.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[01:39:55]

HOLMES: Still to come on the program a powerful CNN exclusive video captured by a U.S. Marine's GoPro camera contradicts the Pentagon official report about the 2021 Afghanistan airport bombing. We'll have that after the break.

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HOLMES: And now a CNN exclusive report. As the Taliban's rapid takeover of Afghanistan in 2021 was in its final days, and U.S. forces were scrambling to get out, a bomb ripped through crowds of Afghans trying to evacuate at Kabul's airport.

The official death toll: 170 Afghans and 13 U.S. service members. The Pentagon has insisted all were killed by the blast. But new video and eyewitness evidence obtained by CNN question that account.

CNN's chief international security correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh with that investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you guys in the right state of mind?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: This video, not fully seen in public before, reveals brutal facts long denied by the U.S. military.

On August 26th, 2021 a moment of acute savagery at the end of America's longest war. Two Pentagon investigations insisted all 170 Afghans and 13 U.S. military who died here were killed by an ISIS bomber and nobody hit by gunfire.

GENERAL KENNETH F. MCKENZIE, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTCOM: No definitive proof that anyone was ever hit or killed by gunfire.

WALSH: But this new video, which begins outside the airport's Abbey Gate entrance, reveals much more shooting after the blast than the Pentagon said.

Combined with new accounts to CNN of Marines opening fire and gunshot injuries in Afghan civilians, it challenges the rigor and reliability of the two Pentagon investigations that declared no Afghan civilians were shot dead in the chaotic aftermath.

The bomb detonates. The footage then stops and picks up three seconds later.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You good? You good?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch out, there's 12 men in the back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right here, right here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, hey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got that on film dude.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're breaking through.

Is that all right, guys? Great job. We're doing security.

WALSH: Many Marines here were young, some on their first deployment. The gunfire starts. They run for cover.

This long burst is about 17 shots, bringing us a total of 20.

[01:44:48]

WALSH: We're tallying shots fired and episodes of fire based on two forensic analyses on screen.

You cannot see who is still firing here, and we never see Marines or anyone firing in this video.

Short, controlled bursts in isolation. A CS gas canister has exploded in the blast, its gas choking this Marine. And in a moment, the total episodes of gunfire you've heard will start being more than the three the Pentagon has said happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You good?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're still here.

WALSH: The gunfire continues. We leap forward 27 seconds as Afghans, arms raised, run into the airport.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, they're just smoking dirt, bro.

WALSH: One burst, now another.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Is that the (EXPLETIVE DELETED)) TB bro?

WALSH: They wonder if the Taliban, the TB, is shooting. Two Marines told us they saw the Taliban just after the blast, looking as shocked as they were.

Multiple Marines we spoke to who were there said they felt they were under fire. But the Pentagon has insisted for two years no militant gunmen opened fire here. They've said the only shots fired here were two bursts by U.S. Marines and one from U.K. troops -- once in a big burst from a nearby tower. All bursts near simultaneous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's (EXPLETIVE DELETED) get down. Are you good?

WALSH: So, according to their investigations, we must be hearing Marines or the British firing here.

Jump forward nearly two minutes, during which there are three bursts, and they're heading outside to help. That's at least 43 shots in 11 episodes of shooting. Just short of four minutes of sporadic fire, most of which the Pentagon has said for two years did not happen.

This is how terrifying it was for Afghans outside minutes after the blast. So who was shooting?

For the first time, a Marine eyewitness has come forward and told CNN the first big burst of gunfire at the start of the GoPro video you just saw came from where U.S. Marines were standing near the blast site.

We're using a different voice to hide his identity as he fears reprisals for describing the gunfire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was -- it was multiple. There's no doubt about that. It wasn't onesies and twosies. It was -- it was a mass volume of gunfire.

WALSH: Down towards the Abbey Gate sniper tower from roughly an area not too far away from where the blast had gone off. That's where you heard the shooting emanate from?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would have been around that area, yes.

WALSH: And there were U.S. Marines, right? This was likely emanating from Marines on the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

WALSH: You think they fired into the crowd?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn't tell you for certain.

WALSH: But they wouldn't have fired into the air, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, they would not have fired into the air.

WALSH: Because you had a specific "no warning shots" order, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wasn't a direct order, but it was a common understanding. No warning shots.

These are kids. They're young. And they've only been taught what they've been taught. Some of these kids have been with the unit for quite literally two, three months prior to deployment.

WALSH: We spoke to over 10 other Marines anonymously about gunfire. Some felt they were shot at. A couple even said they saw a gunman.

But two others stand out, who we were unable to reach ourselves. Both injured, both admitting some memories were fuzzy. But one clear he heard orders to fire. The other, that he opened fire himself.

ROMEL FINLEY, BLAST SURVIVOR: I see my platoon sergeant walk past us saying, get back on that wall and shoot back at those (EXPLETIVE DELETED). So I'm like, oh, we're in a gunfight too.

CHRISTIAN SANCHEZ, BLAST SURVIVOR: Like all I hear is ringing and (EXPLETIVE DELETED) flashes going on. And then I start hearing snaps.

And then I start realizing that's a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) dude shooting at me. I just started shooting at the dude.

WALSH: So what of the Afghans themselves, 170 of whom died. The Pentagon has insisted all injuries and deaths were from the bomb and its ball bearings.

But two years ago, CNN heard significant evidence from 19 eyewitnesses that Afghans were shot and from Afghan medical staff counting dozens of dead from bullets.

He was Sayed Ahmadi, head doctor at the Kabul Hospital treating most of the wounded. Back then, he was afraid to speak openly and his account was dismissed by the Pentagon.

But now we met him safe with asylum in Finland. He says he and his staff had the expertise to diagnose over 50 dead from gunfire that night.

[01:49:52]

DR. SAYED AHMADI, FORMER KABUL HOSPITAL DIRECTOR: 170 people were killed totally. But the register what we had maybe 145.

WALSH: And by your estimation about half --

AHMADI: More than half were killed by gunfire.

WALSH: So when you hear the American investigation say that you're just wrong, you don't know what you're talking about.

AHMADI: I wonder. I hope one day they ask me or they call me what you saw. Like you come here and ask me. You came to Kabul and ask me about the situation. They never asked me.

WALSH: Even though we described the video and our findings in great detail to the Pentagon, they said they would need to examine any new, unseen video before they could assess it.

They said their first investigation had thoroughly looked at allegations of outgoing fire from U.S. and coalition forces following the blast. They said their review, released earlier this month, focused not on gunfire but the bomber and events leading up to the blast, but found no new evidence of a complex attack and uncovered no new assertions of outgoing fire, having no materialistic impact on the original investigation.

Investigators have also not interviewed any Afghans for their reports, the Pentagon said, leaving the question of how hungry for the truth are they.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN -- London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: When we come back here on CNN NEWSROOM, the race for the Premier League title now down to just two teams and three weeks to go.

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HOLMES: After years of delay an Australian billionaire is pushing forward with the creation of Titanic 2. Billionaire Clive Palmer and Blue Star Line are accepting proposals and plans from ship builders who would attempt to recreate the original ship, only bigger and better.

Early designs reveal that the Titanic 2 would hold more than 2,300 passengers. They are aiming to start building the ship next year.

A gold watch worn by the richest passenger aboard the Titanic, meanwhile, has sold for nearly $1.5 million at auction. That's ten times what the timepiece was expected to sell for. It once belonged to John Jacob Astor IV, who died on the Titanic during its fatal voyage. The watch found on his body when it was recovered from the accident site. Since then the item has changed hands from family to friends until it was sold in the late 1990s.

Just three weeks left in the English Premier League season and there are only two teams who can win the title, Manchester City and Arsenal.

World Sport's Don Riddell has more on the fight to the finish.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: The Premier League title race would now seem to be a head-to-head between Manchester City and Arsenal. Liverpool have kind of fallen away in recent weeks.

So it's now down to the Gunners to challenge Man City and try to prevent them from becoming the first team to win four consecutive crowns.

But they had a tricky assignment on Sunday away at their better north London rivals Tottenham and although both played well, Arsenal got the goals as Bukayo Saka making a 2-nil midway through the first half. And Arsenal were cruising when Kai Havertz made it 3-nil in the 38th minute.

[01:54:52]

RIDDELL: This was a frustrating day for Spurs. They add more possessions, they had chances, but nothing dropped until the 64th minute when Christian Romero (ph) punished Arsenal's goalie for a dreadful mistake.

And then three minutes from time, Spurs really rattled their opponents for the penalty from Son Heung-min (ph). Tottenham though, unable to find another so Arsenal held on for three crucial points.

The Gunners must win every game and hope that Manchester City somehow slip up. Otherwise it is City's title to lose. It's in their hands right now. They picked up another three points on Sunday with a 2-nil win at Nottingham Forest.

City's defender, Josko Gvardiol is having a wonderful month. That was his third goal in just five games while Erling Haaland returned from injury coming off the bench to make points safe at his 21st Premier League goal of the season. 2-nil the final score.

So here's the table. Arsenal still top. The Gunners are a point ahead of Man City, but City have a game in hand. Arsenal have just three matches left to play. City have four.

ERLING HAALAND, MANCHESTER CITY STRIKER: I think the most important thing is to not think especially in these moments about taking day by day honestly.

If you overthink you're going to be crazy in your head. So relax now, enjoy (INAUDIBLE).

RIDDELL: The story will continue on Saturday with both Arsenal and Man City playing their next Premier League games at home. Back to you. (END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Our thanks there to Don Riddell.

And finally a sumo wrestling match, unlike any you've seen before. The competitors aren't the massive hulking dudes in loin cloths trying to force each other out of the ring.

This time, the match is between babies and whoever cries first is the one who wins. Sounds a bit cruel doesn't it. Around 100 babies joined the annual crying sumo event in Tokyo this year.

For some it took no time at all to become champions although some babies actually smiled, not that guy.

Thanks for spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes.

The news continues with my friend and (INAUDIBLE) and colleague Rosemary Church.

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