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Universities Crack Down on Pro-Palestinian Protests; Hamas Weighing Ceasefire and Hostage Release Proposal; Russia Advances in East Ukraine Amid Delay of Western Aid; Dozens Killed After Dam Burst in Kenya; At Least 71 Killed, Dozens Injured after Dam Burst; CNN Speaks with Haitian Gang Leader Wanted by FBI. Aired 12-12:45a ET
Aired April 30, 2024 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, I'm John Vause.
Ahead here on CNN NEWSROOM.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUEDA POLAT, COLUMBIA STUDENT NEGOTIATOR: We will not be moved unless by force.
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VAUSE: But universities across the U.S. cracked down on pro- Palestinian protesters with hundreds arrested so far.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The proposal that is extraordinarily, extraordinarily generous.
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VAUSE: What could be the last best chance for peace in Gaza. Israel offered Hamas of weeks-long ceasefire in exchange for hostages or face an all-out military offensive on the border city of Rafah.
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LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Everybody that lived here and everything they owned is gone.
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VAUSE: Swept away in an instant by flashfloods. Weeks of heavy rains across Kenya and East Africa leave more than 100 people dead.
ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta, this is CNN NEWSROOM with John Vause.
VAUSE: Pro-Palestinian protests have now spread to more than 20 college campuses across the U.S. With a growing number of students clashing with police, the number of arrests so far reportedly in the hundreds, while at the epicenter of the demonstrations, Columbia University administration officials announced suspending students who refused to leave a protest encampment.
At Virginia Commonwealth University on Monday police in riot gear moved and arrested protesters. One person seen thrown to the ground. University officials say the gathering violated school policies.
At the University of Texas in Austin police arrested about 40 people according to the Defend Palestine Group. Police are also called to the University of California, Irvine, but so far, no word on clashes or arrest there. And at Columbia University in New York, negotiations between protesters and administrators have broken down. Many demonstrators refusing to follow a Monday afternoon deadline to disperse.
And CNN's Miguel Marquez has details.
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MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): protesting students at New York's Columbia University standing their ground in their pro-Palestinian encampment after they say talks between protesters and the administration broke down.
POLAT: We were engaging in good faith negotiations until the administration cut them off under threat of suspensions.
MARQUEZ: Protesters inside and outside the Ivy League campus after a deadline passed, refusing to leave until their demands are met.
POLAT: Didn't Shafik claim that we had had constructive dialogue? The university will not divest from Israel.
MARQUEZ: Encircling the protest encampment on college grounds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're here to protect the students.
MARQUEZ: Even after administrators set a hard deadline to clear the way for a graduation ceremony. The tensions on display outside Columbia's main gates as well. One woman forcibly removed by the New York City Police Department. The pressure ramping up during final exam week. The university threatening suspensions and expulsions.
But promising protesters they would be eligible to complete the semester in good standing if they sign a form promising to abide by university policies through June 2025. The tactic and earlier police involvement in moving protesters has failed to disband the encampment. Protesters saying --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These repulsive scare tactics mean nothing compared to the deaths of over 34,000 Palestinians.
MARQUEZ: The majority of Columbia students just trying to get through finals. ROY KAY, COLUMBIA STUDENT: These circumstances have made things
especially difficult. Most of my classes actually last week have been canceled outright.
MARQUEZ: The groundswell of protests here growing in recent weeks. It set off a wave of protest encampments at universities nationwide. State troopers pushing back against protesters at the University of Texas coming after nearly 60 arrests last week. Emotions rising with graduation just weeks away. But for many colleges, the fallout continues.
Emory University's faculty now calling for a vote of no confidence of President Gregory Fenves after two professors were arrested, and students faced pepper balls and tasers. The president saying in a statement he found the videos to be deeply distressing and apologizing to students for an earlier statement in which he said the people behind the encampment on the quad were not members of the Emory community.
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Coming at a time many universities are struggling to balance the right to free speech while protecting their students' ability to pursue their education.
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MARQUEZ (on-camera): So the big question is, what next for Columbia University? Protesters say they will not leave their encampment willingly. The university says that they could face expulsion, but does not want to bring NYPD in to clear the protesters again. The finals are underway. Commencements in a couple of weeks. At some point, push is going to come to shove.
Back to you.
VAUSE: Joining us now from the University of Southern California is Katya Urban, a senior student with Jewish Voice for Peace, a progressive anti-Zionist Jewish organization that stands in solidarity with Palestinians and their demands for self-determination.
Thank you so much for being with us.
KATYA URBAN, CO-FOUNDER OF JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE CHAPTER AT USC: Thank you for having me.
VAUSE: So the wider issue here seems to come down to what is free speech and legitimate protest and what is hate speech and what is antisemitism. Here's the head of the Anti-Defamation League speaking to CNN just short time ago. Listen to this.
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JONATHAN GREENBLATT, DIRECTOR, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: Kill the Zionists? You know, threatening their other classmates. This is not just dangerous for Jewish students, although it is, it's also dangerous for all of us like this isn't normal. This isn't what college is supposed to be.
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VAUSE: So especially on the (INAUDIBLE), has that been happening on campus and as a Jewish student yourself, can you understand there is fear among other Jewish students who say they've been the victim of antisemitism as a direct result of some of these protests?
URBAN: Yes. I mean, as part of the pro-Palestine movement, we condemn all forms of hate speech, and that includes antisemitism, but also anti-Arab or anti-Islamic sentiments as well. And we want to clarify that anti-Zionism is not the same thing as antisemitism. And it's often equated to be the same thing. So, yes, I mean there's a huge group of Jewish students who are a central part of this movement for Palestine. So, you know, we are part of this, we are organizing this as well. So that rhetoric is not the main rhetoric that Jewish students are experiencing.
VAUSE: There are many who are critical of these pro-Palestinian protests on campus. And they say, well, Israel is often called out with legitimate criticism for what they've been doing in Gaza. There is often no recognition of the role Hamas has played in this conflict, no criticism of the terrorist organization, which to be frank would never allow the kind of protests in Gaza like the one you're engaged in on campus right now.
So what do you say to that?
URBAN: We don't support any form of violence or terrorism, and that's important. That's made very clear. But I find and as part of the pro- Palestine movement it's important to really contextualize everything that's happened in the last few months. You know, this didn't begin on October 7th. This has been happening for 75 years and Palestinians have been oppressed since colonizers first came and created the state of Israel. So you can't speak about the attacks without acknowledging the entire history.
VAUSE: Yes, nothing happens in a vacuum and the history is very important, it is very confusing at times and very convoluted as well. But the president of USC, where you are, issued a statement to CNN about the ongoing negotiations with students. It reads in part, "For me, the most important point was that we were starting to talk. I think that was vital. I felt like they the students were being honest and telling me how they felt, which was very meaningful."
So at this point, how are students and the supporters of the students see these talks with the administration? Are they moving ahead? Because it just seems that it's only just beginning. One point here, though, it's also a very different approach compared to what they do at Columbia with student protesters being suspended. So I guess at least that's something for USC, right?
URBAN: Yes. Well, the way that we were first met by the university was very violent and aggressive, and we were not initially met with being open to conversation. We began very peacefully and very quickly it got violent with campus police and LAPD, and after meeting with the president she claimed that she was unaware of our divestment campaign and that she wasn't open to discussing our demands. So, yes.
VAUSE: Do you think she is now? Do you think there is some hope there that there'll be some negotiations there for the positive?
URBAN: We're going to stay occupying the space and persisting that we have our demands met so we will continue to that until that is the case.
VAUSE: Katya Urban, thank you so much for being with us and sharing your thoughts. It's very much appreciated right now. Thank you.
URBAN: Thank you so much.
VAUSE: Well, according to the White House, Hamas is now facing a stark choice, accept a generous ceasefire-hostages deal or face an Israeli military offensive on Rafah.
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The ceasefire would play out in two phases, and could ultimately lead to a normalization of relations between Israel and the Middle East. Response from Hamas could come at any time.
Here's CNN's Jeremy Diamond and a warning, parts of his report are graphic.
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JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Smoke from the latest Israeli airstrike rises near the tents of the displaced in Rafah. And it could get much worse. Israel is threatening a major ground offensive here. But far from the bombs and bullets, another path is emerging. Egypt putting forward a new framework for ceasefire and hostage deal.
SAMEH SHOUKRY, EGYPTIAN MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: But there is a proposal on the table, up to the two sides to consider and accept. But certainly the objective is a ceasefire.
DIAMOND: Under the latest proposal an Israeli source and a foreign diplomatic source tells CNN that Hamas would release between 20 and 33 hostages in exchange for a pause in the fighting and the release of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners over several weeks. Palestinians would also get unrestricted access to northern Gaza, a new Israeli concession.
Israel and Hamas would then agree to what diplomats are calling the restoration of sustainable calm. A one-year ceasefire that would see Israeli troops withdraw from Gaza and the release of the remaining Israeli hostages.
BLINKEN: Hamas has before the proposal that is extraordinarily, extraordinarily generous on the part of Israel. And in this moment, the only thing standing between the people of Gaza and a ceasefire is Hamas. DIAMOND: As Israeli officials expect Hamas' leader in Gaza to respond
in the coming days hostage families are driving up the pressure on the Israeli government.
AVIVA SIEGEL, FREED HOSTAGE: I know the feeling of losing hope. Bring it back to me, bring back my hope, bring Keith and all the hostages their lives back. We can't handle anymore. We've had enough.
DIAMOND: Failing to reach a deal only promises more pain for those hostage families, and more unspeakable grief in Rafah.
Israeli airstrikes killing 22 people overnight in Rafah, according to hospital officials, including five children. Nestled among the body bags, the small body of 1-year-old Deif Allah Abu Taha is impossible to miss. He was among 10 members of his family killed overnight.
We were sitting in our homes not doing anything, his uncle says. Everyone was asleep in their beds. This is who they're targeting. This is their objective. This is the generation they're targeting.
The stakes of ceasefire negotiations all too clear.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.
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VAUSE: Colin P. Clarke is director of policy and research at the Soufan Group, which advises governments, corporations, and NGOs on global intelligence and security issues. He's also author of "After the Caliphate." He joins us this hour from Pittsburgh.
Welcome back. Good to see you.
COLIN P. CLARKE, DIRECTOR OF POLICY AND RESEARCH, THE SOUFAN GROUP: Thanks, John. Thanks for having me.
VAUSE: You're welcome. Now, it seems that there are two key factors in making this deal if it does in fact work. It's Israel's willingness to accept the release of between 20 and maybe 33 hostages in the first phase of the ceasefire, if you call it a ceasefire, and not 40, but that number remains fluid as much does as well. There's also this, the second phase is what sources described as the restoration of sustainable calm during which the remaining hostages, captive Israeli soldiers, and the bodies of hostages would be exchanged for more Palestinian prisoners.
According to a diplomatic source calling it a sustainable calm is a way to agree to a permanent ceasefire without calling it a permanent ceasefire. So this makes it actually does work if it all goes ahead. Is it essentially dependent now on wordplay, you know, a distinction without a difference?
CLARKE: Well, look, semantics do make a difference at least in terms of bringing both parties to the negotiating table in the first place. So if, you know, that phrase is what's going to placate one side or the other, and to get the mechanics of a deal in motion, then it's worth it.
Look, this could break down any moment. And so right now I think diplomats are working overtime just to get the kind of contours of the deal in place. We'll see if that happens in Cairo this week. A lot of people holding their breath and still a lot of things could go wrong.
VAUSE: Well, next comes to an expected response from Hamas and according to the Secretary of State Antony Blinken the clock is ticking. Here he is.
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BLINKEN: They have to decide and they have to decide quickly so we're looking to that, and I'm hopeful that they will make the right decision.
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VAUSE: An Israeli source told CNN the only chance to stop an Israeli offensive on Rafah is to get a deal.
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So is it solely, though, on Hamas at this point? Because the Israeli prime minister, if he agrees to a Gaza ceasefire, the members of his right-wing coalition have warned they'll bring down his government, which is a lot of pressure on Bibi right now not just to make a deal, but also to break a deal.
CLARKE: Yes. No, of course, it's not only up to Hamas, there's multiple players in this game. Hamas is a major player, but so are the Israelis, as you pointed out. And I think, you know, pressure has been ramping up on Netanyahu, on the Israeli government. We see protests in the street. And, you know, the hostage families are key to this. They're very upset. They want their loved ones back home, and there's a lot of uncertainty about who's alive and who's dead at this point.
So, again, there's a lot of room for error here. I do think this is the last best chance for peace and if talks do break down, it seems like an IDF offensive on Rafah is imminent.
VAUSE: It does seem that there are two extremes here. If this doesn't happen, if the ceasefire fails, or the negotiations fail, then we're looking at this Rafah offensive which could be a bloodbath for civilians who've taken shelter in Rafah. At the same time, there is a lot to be gained. There this possibility of, you know, normalization of relations across the Middle East for Israel. So the stakes at this stage seemed incredibly huge.
CLARKE: The stakes are huge. Look, and for the Israeli people, for Israel as a state, we're talking about potentially historic deal, normalization with Saudi Arabia, which many folks including myself never thought they'd see in this lifetime. And so stakes are tremendous. If the Biden administration can help facilitate this and pull this off a big diplomatic win for the United States, the administration, in an election year. But again, there's a lot of spoilers at play here in Netanyahu's far-
right coalition. And also on the other side, Yahya Sinwar, the Hamas leader, has been obstinate from the beginning and insurgents win by not losing and I think Hamas is very aware of that, acutely aware, in fact, and can very well run out the string here.
VAUSE: That's the question. If this deal does go through, even if all the hostages are released, and this ceasefire takes hold, in the short term, is there any other way to look at this as a win for Hamas?
CLARKE: No. I mean, look, if the leaders are still alive, Sinwar and Mohammed Deif, you know, the Israelis, one of the, you know, most feared militaries in the region, if not the world, will come away looking quite lackluster. You know, they've taken siege to Gaza and have been unable to get at Hamas' leadership. And this is a group that's not going to go away. If there is a two-state solution or future Palestinian state, I guarantee you that Hamas will have a say over what the politics look like in a post-war setting.
If they're not in the leadership themselves, they'll certainly be influencing those that are sitting in the leadership. They're not going to go away. We have to deal with them. We've seen this in many other conflicts over time and so that's going to be painted as a big loss for the Israelis.
VAUSE: Yes, after, what, more than six months of war, the devastation in Gaza, more than 30,000 dead. I mean, yes, this will be not the outcome I think that Netanyahu was looking for when it all began.
Colin Clarke, as always, sir, thank you. Good to have you with us.
CLARKE: Thank you.
VAUSE: When we come back, four police officers dead, three others wounded in a shootout while serving a warrant at a home in North Carolina. Details on what happened, as well as details on the suspect in a moment. Plus, as Ukraine waits for air defense system to arrive, a Russian missile strike on the port city of Odessa kills at least four people at a seaside park.
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VAUSE: A fourth police officer has now died after a shootout in the U.S. state of North Carolina. Three others were wounded while attempting to serve a warrant at a residential home. Charlotte's police chief praised their bravery.
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CHIEF JOHNNY JENNINGS, CHARLOTTE-MECKLENBURG POLICE DEPARTMENT: They knew that they had officers that needed help, that needed to be extracted from that location. Yet they went in, some getting shot themselves as a result. So the bravery, the heroism, everything that goes down that defines what our profession is, our people demonstrated that today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The eight officers came under fire as they approached the home. They returned fire, killing at least one suspect. Police have not yet released their identities. Charlotte's police chief says this is the most tragic shootings he's seen in more than 30 years on the job. In a statement, U.S. president Joe Biden called the officers heroes who made the ultimate sacrifice, adding leaders in Congress need to step up so that we ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, require safe storage of guns and pass universal background checks, and a national red flag law. Enough is enough.
At least four people have been killed, 20 others injured after Russian missile strike in the southern Ukrainian port city of Odessa. According to Ukrainian officials, the attack targeted one of the most popular places in the city where many go to walk their dogs and play sport. The strike also damaged a number of buildings, homes, and businesses, including the student's palace at the Odessa Law Academy.
Officials say two children and a pregnant woman are among the wounded. Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy says incoming military assistance is not coming fast enough. The topic was a priority during meetings with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg in Kyiv Monday. Stoltenberg admitted that NATO allies have not delivered what they promised. He says delays in support have triggered, quote, "serious consequences on the battlefield," that would be Zelenskyy -- while speaking alongside Zelenskyy, I should say. Here he is.
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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Timely support for our army, today, I don't see anything positive about this point yet. There are supplies. They have slightly begun. This process needs to be sped up.
JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: Ukraine has been outgunned for months, forced to ration its ammunition, but it's not too late for Ukraine to prevail. More support is on the way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Well, for Russia, the delay in military assistance for Ukraine has been a huge advantage. Ramping up pressure on the frontline.
More details now from CNN's Nick Paton Walsh.
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NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR (voice- over): While U.S. Congress delayed, the damage here was already done.
This is rare body camera footage from Russians. Confident in their advances in the east. Slow but sure, adding to a list of nowhere villages falling to Moscow day by day, claiming Monday to have taken here Novomykhailivka, as Ukraine almost always stopped short of saying how bad it's got.
No more true of that is the fate of what Ocheretyne, another tiny village in Donetsk, also of sudden unwanted fame. Despite the brutal pounding and evacuation, you can see here a military spokesman claimed Sunday the Russians only had a partial foothold. Currently the part where the enemy is located under our fire control and all measures are being taken to knock the enemy out of there, he said.
This after days of Russian soldiers posting videos of them raising flags inside the town. Ukraine's official statements as Russian footage showed a continued advance, showing a distant from reality. Common when you're trying to win a war. But uncommonly now, angering normally loyal Ukrainian bloggers.
So Ukraine's top military commander was forced to set a bleak record straight, saying the frontlines had escalated as Moscow has concentrated its efforts in several directions, creating a significant advantage in forces and in means. He said the changing situation had led to an ambiguous understanding.
Here is another case in point, (INAUDIBLE), from which Ukraine was posting bullish videos of Russians being hit just before their commander said they withdrawn Sunday.
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Across the eastern front, the news is bleak, the change since the fall of Avdiivka 10 weeks ago stark on this Ukrainian blogger's map. Russia, making its most concerted widespread and consistent advances, perhaps since the invasion.
This is Zelenskyy's problem to keep now, as he bolsters morale in towns in the Russian crosshairs. He has the money and so soon the weapons, and the less blame he can shift for failure.
We are cooperating with our partners at all levels, he said, to achieve the level of efficiency and assistance that is needed not only to maintain our positions, but also to disrupt Russia's war plans. We're still waiting for the supplies that have been promised to Ukraine.
But more is likely coming. Where you just saw Zelenskyy visit, this is what is left of (INAUDIBLE), yet another town Russia has turned into this smoldering ruin here with incendiary munitions in the name of liberating and demilitarizing Ukraine.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: When we come back on CNN, flash flooding in Kenya leaves dozens dead, many others homeless after weeks of torrential rain with no let- up in sight.
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VAUSE: Welcome back, everyone. I'm John Vause. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.
In southern Kenya, at least 71 people have been killed, more than 100 injured by flash flooding. Initial reports early Monday blamed a burst dam. But first responders and locals say the torrent of water was triggered by collapsed tunnel under a railway bridge. Rescue operations are ongoing. Much of Kenya has already suffered from deadly flooding caused by weeks of torrential rain. Tens of thousands of people have been displaced.
And CNN's Larry Madowo brings us the very latest now from the disaster zone.
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MADOWO: It's raining again here in Mai Mahiu, in this rift valley town of Kenya. When that happened last night, this is the effect. This big SUV was swept several hundred meters down this way. We have thunderstorms right now. It has only blocked this SUV's movement by these trees over here. That's the only thing that also stopped these trees completely uprooted. But even worse, we see the foundation of a home here.
This used to be a permanent home. The only thing that's left of it now is this foundation. The rest of it was swept away. Everybody that lived here and everything they owned is gone. But it's not just this home. All this area around here living up to those hills used to be several other permanent homes. They've all been swept away. Many people remain unaccounted for. And the what is beginning to build up one more time. You see this is the loose flowing down this way.
The Kenyan government has warned people that live in places where they're likely to face that, to move to higher ground.
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There's a multi-agency response team, trying to deal with these situations to relocate people, to provide shelter, to provide food, and make sure that they're taken care of.
The government here in Kenya has also had to postpone the opening of schools for at least a week to avoid endangering the lives of learners.
MADOWO: But in this valley here, there's so many trucks and vehicles strewn across it, sometimes blocked by the fences, or by the trees. And you just see the entire devastation going down this way. It appears to be the worst damage that Kenya has seen since the rains began in March.
The Kenya Med (ph) Department is forecasting even more heavy to very heavy rainfall to come, and warning everybody to be careful.
But this is not just unique to Kenya. Tanzania, neighboring Tanzania has reported at least 155 people that have died because of the heavy rainfall. This has been hitting all of East Africa. And everybody has been asked to be careful. Larry Madowo CNN, Mai Mahiu.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, parts of Southeast Asia suffering under a scorching heat wave, with temperatures so high Bangladesh and the Philippines have temporarily closed schools.
Elsewhere, the heat has turned deadly. In Thailand, at least 30 people have reportedly died from heat stroke in the past month. Temperatures there have soared to more than 44 degrees Celsius.
At least two deaths reported in India being attributed to heat stroke, as well.
The heat wave is expected to continue with record high temperatures until June when the monseen [SIC] season -- monsoon season, rather, arrives.
G-7 nations have agreed to shut down all coal plants by 2035, a potential breakthrough in the fight against climate change. Ministers from each country have been meeting in Italy, where climate talks are expected to wrap Tuesday.
Coal is the world's dirtiest fossil fuel. Ending its use has been a controversial topic at international talks.
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ANDREW BOWIE, U.K. MINISTER FOR NUCLEAR AND RENEWABLES: This, by the way, is an historic agreement, something that we weren't able to achieve at COP28 in Dubai last year.
So to have the G-7 nations come around the table and send that signal to the world that we, the advanced economies of the world, are committing to phasing out coal by the early 2030s, is quite incredible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Moving away from coal could impact Japan among the most. Climate experts say nearly a third of the country's electricity came from coal last year.
Japan has blocked progress on the issue at past G-7 meetings.
When we come back, a CNN exclusive. David Culver and his team braved the streets of Haiti's capital to speak with one of the country's most wanted gang leaders. That story coming up.
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VAUSE: Haiti's newly assembled national council is looking to restore peace and stability after years of corruption and gang violence which have left the country in ruins. One of the men responsible for that distraction, a notorious gang leader with a $2 million bounty on his head, spoke exclusively to CNN's David Culver. And a warning: his report contains some graphic video.
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DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This war- torn intersection in Port-au-Prince is the blurred boundary signaling we are now in gang territory.
CULVER: This is an area we have never been into before.
CULVER (voice-over): We're told to drive to this road, and someone will meet us.
CULVER: He's assured us that he's sending somebody, and so we are to just wait for that person. It looks like a vehicle here. A truck.
CULVER (voice-over): The armed men in the front seat motion for us to follow. So we do over, rocky and flooded streets. We're venturing deeper into land that, for months, Haitian security experts have warned stay away from.
But we'd been assured by this gang's leader that we'll be safe. We only hope his messaging reached all the checkpoints.
CULVER: Four guys in the car behind us, as well. So they're fully escorting us in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now they've added a motorbike with two guys.
CULVER (voice-over): After 45 minutes --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're asking us to move here.
CULVER (voice-over): -- several dozen masked men and women, most carrying guns, direct us towards a driveway.
CULVER: This guy in front of us now seeming to be leading us to some sort of house.
CULVER (voice-over): We're about to step out and meet Vitel'homme Innocent, considered by both U.S. and Haitian authorities to be a violent criminal and leader of the Kraze Barye Gang.
He's one of the FBI's Ten Most Wanted, with a bounty of up to $2 million, accused in the kidnapping of American missionaries and the death of another American hostage.
Vitel'homme rarely seeks media attention. Yet, given he commands what some U.S. officials say is the largest gang in Port-au-Prince, and his domain includes the U.S. embassy, we wanted to better understand his motives. Vitel'homme agrees to meet us -- CULVER: Hi there.
CULVER (voice-over): -- on his turf.
CULVER: I'm David.
CULVER (voice-over): Flanked by his followers, he leads us inside this flashy mansion.
CULVER: And so is this your -- your home?
CULVER (voice-over): In a room filled with gold-rimmed furniture and stuffed animals, I ask him about the crisis engulfing Haiti.
"Our dream is to rid the country of the corrupt oligarchs and politicians who are holding us back," he says. "We need to get rid of the system and return stability to Haiti."
He speaks with intention and calls for greater dialogue. "But if it's the same system that's been in power, then, as armed groups, we will never put down our weapons," he says.
CULVER: And so do you have regular communications with, as you say, the other armed groups?
CULVER (voice-over): "Yes. We're united," he tells me.
The gangs have formed a coalition known as Viv Ansanm, or living together. And collectively, they push back on foreign intervention, holding tight their grips over a fractured state, some using terror tactics like kidnapping, rape, and murder to sustain control.
CULVER: Is that something you have participated in, and ordering your men and women to kidnap?
CULVER (voice-over): He says he hopes to defend himself in court against those allegations. And while not denying his followers have kidnapped people, he deflects blame to outside forces for creating a state of corruption, as he sees it.
He's eager to show us other parts of his home and territory and introduces us to his top commander.
CULVER: So you're his cousin?
CULVER (voice-over): Security experts suggest Kraze Barye has more than 1,000 armed gang members, including recently escaped inmates.
CULVER: As you can see, a lot of his armed soldiers and followers are around us. And he's suggesting that we follow and drive with them.
CULVER (voice-over): He brings us to the edge of his territory. We notice his guards, normally curious and watching us, are instead looking outward, cautiously, toward another gang's territory. A reminder that the coalition of gangs might be more fragile than portrayed. In the midst of our tour, a disturbing video starts circulating on WhatsApp. It reportedly shows the devastating and deadly aftermath of an allied gang attack on a community a few miles from where we are.
CULVER: The destruction, the violence, the deaths that have played out. Do you take any responsibility for that?
He only says he made mistakes and is not perfect. He blames politicians.
We're interrupted. Something nearby puts his guards on edge. We pick up the conversation a short distance away. Senior editor Caitlin Hu further pressing for an explanation to the horrors we've seen in Haiti.
CAITLIN HU, CNN SENIOR EDITOR: But we have also met in hospitals women, children, Innocent people who have been burned, forced to leave their homes, who have been shot, who have been raped. Why are innocent people suffering in this struggle?
CULVER (voice-over): He does not clearly answer. Instead, he frames the months of deadly street violence as collateral damage. He points the finger at police, saying they refuse to engage in dialogue and, instead, recklessly open fire.
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Police say they're desperately trying to keep the gangs from gaining more ground.
Vitel'homme claims to be a man of faith, devout in practicing voodoo, a common religion here in Haiti.
CULVER: I've heard rumors, and I don't know how true they are. So I ask you that you have voodoo protection. Do you feel that protection?
CULVER (voice-over): "Yes," he tells me confidently, adding that he prays daily for his fellow Haitians.
CULVER: Ultimately, what is it going to take to bring stability and a future of calm to this country?
CULVER (voice-over): He says he and the other armed groups need to be included in discussions of Haiti's future. That's the only way he sees convincing gang members to drop their guns in exchange for a future outside of violence.
As curfew nears, we head back the way we came, Vitel'homme stopping several times along the way, mingling with locals. Handing out food, smiling as though on a campaign trail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we going out?
CULVER (voice-over): He wants us to meet these two men, blind refugees. They tell us Vitel'homme took them in. But it leaves us wondering: why help these men and force so many others out of their homes?
"Look at actions over words," he tells me.
As we near the edge of his territory and the end of our five-hour visit --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's not hang around here if we don't have to.
CULVER (voice-over): Vitel'homme gets out of his motorcade, waves for us to move forward, and strolls to the desolate street corner.
He then comes to our door and shakes each of our hands. His actions intentional and symbolic.
CULVER: Here we are, just blocks from the U.S. embassy, and that's clearly a demonstration of how confident he is and the many he has around him, displaying a show of force.
CULVER (voice-over): A flexing of strength in a lawless nation where today, at least, gangs hold the power.
David Culver, CNN Port-au-Prince, Haiti.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Thanks for watching. I'm John Vause, back at the top of the hour with most CNN NEWSROOM. But please stay with us. WORLD SPORT starts after a short break. See you back here in less than 18 minutes.
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