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CNN International: Columbia Campus Protest Escalates; Protesters Barricade Themselves in Columbia University Building; Arrests Made at U.s. Universities, Including UT Austin & Tulane University; Blinken Arrives in Jordan Ahead of Trip to Israel; Egypt is Proposing a One-year Ceasefire, Release of All Hostages; Hamas Weighing Ceasefire & Hostage Release Proposal; Hush Money Trial Resumes With Banker Gary Farro's Testimony; at Least 71 Killed, Dozens Injured in Flash Flooding in Kenya; in India, Tensions Between Muslims and Hindus Rise Amid Historic Elections; King Charles Resumes Public Duties After Cancer Diagnosis; Paris Pushes for More Social Housing to Keep Costs Down. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired April 30, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:00:17]

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWSROOM": Hi, everyone and welcome to our viewers around the world. I'm Amara Walker and this is "CNN Newsroom." Just ahead, students at New York's Columbia University occupy a building on campus, as colleges across the U.S. grapple with a wave of protests over the war in Gaza. We will have a live report. Plus, the Secretary of State visiting two countries in one day, Antony Blinken pressing for a ceasefire and hostage release deal in the Israel-Hamas war. Can he make any progress? And Trump back on trial, this hour, the former president is expected to depart Trump Tower as his hush money trial resumes.

At this hour, dozens of students are holed up in an academic building on Columbia University's campus in New York City. We want to show you live pictures from outside Hamilton Hall. The students have barricaded themselves inside this building overnight, and the university is now warning other members of the campus community to stay away.

Now, Columbia has become the epicenter for student-led protests against Israel's actions in Gaza and the unprecedented suffering of Palestinians there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER (voice-over): Now, the students breached this building, Hamilton Hall, overnight after Columbia's administration said it would suspend students who refused to leave a protest encampment by yesterday afternoon. Our Sara Sidner was at Columbia in the last hour and here is what she saw.

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR U.S. CORRESPONDENT: We have been for days watching this protest that is clear that things have gotten even more tense between the students and the faculty and officials here at the university. Let us bring in our Polo Sandoval, who has been following this for days now. Wednesday will mark, right, the second week of this protest and now, you've got this situation here. Can you give us some sense of how this all happened?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think it is so clearly going to be an escalation of the situation because of what took place overnight in the building that is directly behind us, Sara. I think this is certainly going to now amp up the pressure further on Columbia University to see what they will do to actually respond because you now see the potential.

Actually, we are seeing yet another layer of disruption for some of those students, especially those who have been observing what has been happening, as you mentioned, for two weeks now. But there is still a lot of questions about who these people were.

We've been -- myself and my colleagues have been on campus for the last couple of weeks, speaking to members of this encampment. The encampment itself has been largely peaceful. They've done gatherings there, and it has really been contained more than anything into the hedges there, basically where they have been camped out. However, something happened last night, as we saw in these pictures here and it is clearly going to be the reason why university officials might now have to calculate that next step.

What we know is that access now to the campus is now going to be further restricted. I had an opportunity speak to a couple of students a short while ago. Unless you live on campus, it is likely that you may not be able to actually make your way onto campus until we find out a little bit more about what might be the next step.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: The Columbia protest is just one of dozens of campus protests across the country in recent weeks. Over the past day, there have been multiple arrests at the University of Texas at Austin, as well as Tulane University in New Orleans. Ed Lavandera is joining us now from the University of Texas, Austin campus. Hi there, Ed. What is the situation there?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is quiet and peaceful here this morning, far different from what we saw unfold here on the campus of the University of Texas for more than six hours yesterday as a group of protesters tried to set up a small encampment in the South Mall area of the campus, one of the more prominent areas of this university. And what we saw unfold is, once again, State Troopers, Austin Police, University Police encircling these protesters and then over the course of several hours, one by one, arresting them, people carried away.

We saw dozens of arrests, maybe there were buses brought in to take away the protesters. We don't have an exact number on the number of people who were taken into custody yesterday, but these students continue demanding for the university to divest itself from investments that support Israel.

[08:05:00]

LAVANDERA: That is the constant theme. But there were some real intensity throughout the day here on this campus. But what is interesting now is exactly how -- what will play out with these arrests. If you remember, last week, here at the university, there were nearly 60 people arrested in confrontations with police that were much more at times violent than what we saw unfold here yesterday. But the county attorney which prosecutes misdemeanor crimes here in Austin, dismissed all of those criminal charges against the protesters here at the university last week. But it is not clear that that is going to happen again.

The county attorney put out a statement, Amara, saying that she is deeply concerned about the escalation of these protests. And then she is speaking with university officials on how to best proceed moving forward. So, a very different tone from what we saw from the county attorney last week. But so far, right now, here on the campus this morning, it is quiet, most of the protesters, after the majority of people were arrested yesterday, they hung around and lingered here on the campus into the evening. But this morning, they are not here right now.

WALKER: Ed, if we can just take a step back and look at the bigger picture nationwide and how so many of these universities from the East Coast, starting at Columbia University, all the way out to the West Coast, how they are struggling with balancing free speech and also keeping students safe. Firstly, have the protests in general been peaceful? And are you starting to see, secondly, more of a pivot towards more violent or physical encounters at these protests?

LAVANDERA: Well, I think it is difficult to paint all of these protests with one broad brush. I think they are all very different. Here at the University of Texas, what we have heard repeatedly from university officials is that this idea tolerating intense (ph), an encampment, many of the protesters often talk about occupying a space here on the campus. University officials have said that it was that kind of talk, that kind of -- those kinds of actions that were simply not going to be tolerated and we are going to be against university rules.

And that is why the university here has called in State Troopers in riot gear to carry out those removal orders and the orders of getting people to disperse. So, what we saw unfold here in Austin yesterday, very different in terms of the intensity and the violent intensity yesterday in this protest that we saw that the protesters were gathered in one spot. Small groups of officers would go in and slowly remove people that it took him several hours to almost essentially one-by-one pluck people out of the encampment area and take them away.

But I think to your broader point, it is clear universities across the country kind of struggling and how to balance the ability to free speech, to gather and assemble and protest and that sort of thing which are hallmarks of democratic society here in the United States, and then also at the same time, trying to prevent these situations from escalating into what we are seeing Columbia and here at the University of Texas at Austin as well. WALKER: Yeah, such a challenging situation. Ed lavender, appreciate your reporting from Texas. Thank you very much.

Leaders across the Middle East and beyond are waiting for Hamas' response to a new proposal by Egypt for a ceasefire in Gaza and the release of hostages. The U.S. Secretary of State says the proposal is extraordinarily generous on the part of Israel. Antony Blinken is in Jordan right now and he heads to Israel later today. The new offer would unfold in two phases with the first calling for the release of up to 33 hostages over several weeks.

Now, as talks continue, Israel is keeping up airstrikes on Gaza ahead of a promised ground invasion of Rafah. At a meeting with hostages' families a short time ago, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israeli forces would enter Rafah "with or without a deal."

Let's bring in CNN's Jeremy Diamond, who is in Jerusalem. Let's start with the status of the talks. Does it sound like there is potentially progress being made?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there is certainly a sense of momentum, a sense of possibility in the air. And we heard yesterday from the Egyptian foreign minister who said that, look, he believes that the proposal that Egypt has put on the table is one that is fair to both sides, that takes into account the positions of both Hamas as well as Israel. We know that Israel already had significant input in crafting that proposal.

And so now, the question is whether or not it is something that Hamas will accept or at least something on which they will engage in seriously. And we expect Hamas' response could come as early as today or it could come in the next couple of days, but it will certainly be critical to determining whether or not a deal is actually possible.

[08:10:00]

DIAMOND: Now, despite Prime Minister Netanyahu's bluster about a Rafah invasion moving forward with or without a deal, the hard reality is that if there is a deal, that means a ceasefire and that means that the Rafah offensive will at a minimum be delayed. For his political prospects here in Israel, he needs to signal that Rafah will happen no matter what. But in speaking with Israeli officials privately, I can tell you that there is certainly a sense that the Rafah offensive is being held up right now while they wait to see whether or not a deal can actually be achieved and then depending on that, only a deal can actually prevent this offensive from actually moving forward.

Now, amid all of this, as you mentioned, Secretary of State Tony Blinken in the region. Yesterday, he was in Saudi Arabia. Today, he will be arriving in Israel this evening for a slew of meetings tomorrow, pushing forward not only, of course, these latest negotiations, but also pressing Israel to do more on the humanitarian aid front, to discuss the prospect of this potential Rafah operation and also more broadly, of course, in the backdrop of all of this is the possibility of a bigger deal, a deal to normalize relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia, one that would have to include some kind of concrete steps towards a Palestinian State.

So, remains to be seen if that can be achieved, but that is certainly another layer that is kind of hanging in the background of all of these negotiations.

WALKER: Yeah, very complex and delicate talks. Jeremy Diamond, appreciate your reporting. Thank you very much. Let's take a wider look now, at the war in Gaza, the regional implications. Let's go to CNNs Ben Wedeman, who has reported extensively from the Middle East. He's joining us now live from Rome.

Ben, it is always good to see you. I just wanted to get your take, first of all, on Netanyahu's comments there that the Rafah invasion will go forward with or without a deal. You think that is an accurate statement?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, he said it. The question is, is it bluster or is it for real? We've heard a lot of bluster from Prime Minister Netanyahu, who is under intense pressure to win the release of the remaining hostages in Gaza. The war has been a catastrophe for Israel in terms of public relations. You have this pending ruling from the international court of -- criminal court. You have these demonstrations across universities in the United States.

So, it is not looking good for him. The problem is, if a deal is reached and he goes away or goes ahead with his bluster and goes into Rafah, conducts a military operation which he has been warned by the United States, could are probably inevitably will result in huge numbers of civilian casualties on top of the 34,500-plus who have been killed already in Gaza, it will spell the end of any deal that is reached. So, really he is talking perhaps out of one side of his mouth and he is going to do something differently.

But this certainly would indicate that his heart is not in a deal. And what we've heard time and time again, that his goal is the -- his primary goal, his first goal when he lists those, the goals of the war in Gaza, is the destruction of Hamas. If there is a deal which could lead to a, according to diplomats, as much as a year of ceasefire, then how is he going to achieve this? So, there is lots of questions and his behavior is that of a prime minister who certainly has perhaps political considerations that take precedence over the fate of those Israeli hostages still in Gaza.

WALKER: Yeah. Fair point. Ben Wedeman, we'll leave it there. Thank you very much.

All right. Next hour, Donald Trump's hush money trial will resume with more testimony from the banker who says he helped facilitate the payments at the heart of the case. Gary Farro was Michael Cohen's banker in 2016 when Cohen used a line of credit from his mortgage to pay porn star Stormy Daniels to remain quiet about an alleged affair with Trump. This is back in, as we said, 2016. This is the second testimony in the case -- the third testimony.

Legal experts think that prosecution will use its witnesses to corroborate key pieces of evidence, such as emails and other documents. Let's go now to CNN's National Security Reporter Zachary Cohen with more. Hello, Zach. So, what can we expect today?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yeah, Amara. Things picking back up with the testimony of Gary Farro, that banker you mentioned, and we expect him to really get into the paperwork that underpins these 34 counts of falsifying business records that Donald Trump faces in this case.

[08:15:00]

COHEN: And we expect them to walk the jury through the documents behind this home equity line of credit that Michael Cohen says that he used to pay Stormy Daniels, that $130,000 that's really at the center of this case and really -- the really big issue here. And look, we don't know exactly who the prosecution is going to call after Gary Farro, that's really the big question, the thing that we are all looking to see. Prosecutors have said they are not going to disclose the witness list or the order in which these witnesses are going to testify because they're worried about things that Donald Trump might say about them publicly.

That brings up another thing that we are looking for is, whether or not Judge Merchan is going to rule on that gag order. Prosecutors say that Donald Trump has violated the gag order 14 times. We had a hearing last week where the prosecution and defense both made their arguments, but still no ruling on that. So, we are expecting another gag order hearing later this week, but it would be interesting to see if Judge Merchan does make a decision on those 14 alleged violations that the prosecution put up last week.

And finally, the last thing I am looking forward today is the Trump of it, all right, where our team in the courtroom has really done a good job of providing almost minute by minute sort of color about Donald Trump's reactions, how Donald Trump is reacting both to the jury, both to the arguments of the witnesses -- what the witnesses are saying in this case.

And "The New York Times" reporting that Trump has expressed privately frustration with one of his attorneys, Todd Blanche, so it would be really interesting to see if some of that frustration spills over in the courtroom as he is once again forced to sit there for eight hours a day and listen to witness testimony, that's really going to be document-heavy. So we'll see how that plays out, but yeah, things picking up back -- picking back up today, this morning, with the testimony of Gary Farro.

WALKER: A lot to watch for. CNN's Zach Cohen, thank you so much. And we will have much more ahead this hour as Donald Trump's hush money trial resumes. Coming up, I am going to speak to a former judge about whether he might get a ruling on Mr. Trump's alleged gag order violations. That is in about 50 minutes from now.

Still to come, the death toll from devastating floods in Kenya is rising by the hour, with rescue teams still searching for survivors. We will have a live report from one of the most affected areas. Plus, anti-Muslim sentiment is on the rise as voters in India cast their ballots in a historic election. A live report from New Delhi is just ahead.

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WALKER: More than 170 people have died amid devastating floods across Kenya. At least 71 of those were killed in a flash flood not far from the capital of Nairobi when a surge of water burst through a clogged tunnel. The extreme weather that's affected the country for several weeks now has forced thousands of people out of their homes. CNN's Larry Madowo was on the ground in one of the worst affected areas. He is joining me now. Larry, what are you seeing?

[08:20:00]

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Amara, we are still on the scene where the worst flash flooding we've seen happened. It's been more than 36 hours since this happened. They are still digging through this heap here because they have had a smell and they suspect that there could be somebody still under there. They have reason to think that because just across the road, over on this side, we were here yesterday and they were digging through that section for hours. It is only today that they were able to pull out the body of a young man there. And they only started to do that because one of the neighbors reported hearing a phone vibrating. So again, this is the situation here.

Most of these are not professionals. They are first responders, they are not equipped for this. They are just neighbors, relatives who are still missing neighbors, they are missing the family members, and because no one else is helping, they are using whatever they have, mostly their bare hands or they using garden hose, just to try and make sure that everybody is accounted for. There are dozens that are still missing from this tragedy that happened early Monday morning.

It is the worst devastation that Kenya has seen since the heavy rains began back in March. The exact death toll is climbing and we've been speaking to so many family members, one who lost nine family members. We spoke to a young mother who lost her three-year-old son on his birthday. She is devastated. And there are so many of the stories, an entire village almost wiped out with this raging waters that hit them at 3 a.m. when they were asleep and they had no time to prepare for any of it at all.

President William Ruto has called these people, the victims of climate change, and she says this is going to be the new normal if it is not the extreme weather events of flooding, it is droughts, and that's something that's here in East Africa and the Horn of Africa has become very common. All of East Africa has seen some serious heavy rainfall. Tanzania has reported 155 people dead. And the forecast, Amara, is that there is still more rain to come.

WALKER: Now, that's awful. And we are seeing it play out there right behind you, right over your right shoulder. There is half a dozen men there at least, using a rope, trying to pull something quite heavy, but it is not budgeting. Is it a part of a tree, maybe a branch, but on that note, I mean, what kind of help are they getting from the government?

MADOWO: They have been getting some help, but it is clearly not enough because you can see from there, that is a whole tree that was uprooted, Amara, that they are trying to pull off and they don't have any of the proper implements to do that. They are using what they can. They haven't had any sort of heavy-duty military equipment, earth- moving equipment to do this. They fear that one of their neighbors could still be under that heap and they are just trying to do what they can. They are well-meaning people who are trying to make sure that everyone is accounted for.

There has been a lot of criticism for how the government has responded to this and the fact that even this tunnel burst in the first place speaks to the lack of maintenance for it. And this community is living with the effects of that.

WALKER: What are awful situation and the fact that the threat of more severe weather is not over. Larry Madowo, thank you so much for being there.

Let's turn now to India, where nearly a billion people are eligible to vote in the world's largest-ever general election. Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking a rare third straight term, but some are accusing him of airing Islamophobic rhetoric on the campaign trail in a country where tensions between Hindu and Muslim communities are already high. Joining me now from New Delhi is CNN's Will Ripley. Will?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Amara. Prime Minister Modi is incredibly popular here in India. I've seen it firsthand on the ground over the last several weeks. If you look at opinion polls, if you just talk to people, he has incredibly high approval ratings in a democracy, in fact, the highest in the world by some measures.

But then there are other people here who believe that some of the things that Prime Minister Modi is saying to appeal to the majority of people in India, who are Hindu, is marginalizing and perhaps even putting in danger hundreds of millions of Muslims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIPLEY (voice-over): In Varanasi, on India's holiest river the Ganges, Hindus worship with the purifying power of fire. But smoldering religious tensions risk igniting a dangerous conflict between India's Hindu nationalists and their Muslim neighbors, who tell us they no longer feel welcome or safe. We came here as tensions are rising over this 17th century mosque. Hindu say it sits on land stolen from them hundreds of years ago. Now, they're fighting in court to get it back.

SM YASEEN, MUSLIM LEADER: My community is very much worried.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Longtime Muslim Leader SM Yaseen says, Hindus are trying to take over their mosque. How difficult is it to fight this in court?

YASEEN: It is very difficult. Nobody is listening, nobody.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Yaseen blames India's popular Prime Minister Narendra Modi for mixing politics and religion. Modi's political opponents say he is marginalizing the nation's more than 200 million Muslims.

[08:25:00]

YASEEN: They are treating us as second-class citizen.

SWAMI JITENDRANAND SARASWATI, HINDU RELIGIOUS LEADER: What second- class? If they're saying they feel like they are second-class citizens then this makes me happy.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Swami Jitendranand Saraswati is a Hindu spiritual leader with views on Muslims many would consider Islamophobia.

SARASWATI: In the blood of a Muslim, there is a desire to want to riot all the time.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Muslim shopkeeper Shamsher Ali feels like he is being pushed out.

SHAMSHER ALI, SHOPKEEPER (through translator): Anything can happen at any point, that is the amount of hate now. They say leave the country, where will we go? We were born here. We will die here. This is my country.

RIPLEY (voice-over): A country where violence against Muslims is on the rise. A Delhi Police officer was caught on camera last month kicking a group of Muslim men praying by the side of the road. The video went viral. The officer suspended. Another police officer arrested for killing three Muslims on a train, praising the prime minister while standing over their bodies.

The worst was in 2020, violence broke out between Hindus and Muslims in the capital New Delhi. Dozens of people died, mostly Muslims. It happened around the same time Modi was meeting then President Donald Trump. Even those who survived one of the darkest chapters in India's recent history will never be the same.

Nasir Ali says a Hindu man shot him in the face near his home, the one place he should have been safe. He says the police did practically nothing, a charge they deny.

NASIR ALI, DELHI RESIDENT (through translator): Everyone was feeling unsafe. We can no longer rely on the police.

RIPLEY (voice-over): A court order called their investigation casual, callous, and farcical. Four years later, the case is still ongoing in a higher court.

RIPLEY: Is there justice for Muslims like you in India today?

N. ALI (through translator): No, our only crime is that we are Muslims. RIPLEY (voice-over): The national spokesperson for Prime Minister Modi's party, the BJP, says people of all religions have the same rights.

RIPLEY: Is this a Hindu-first government?

JAIVEER SHERGILL, NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON, BHARATIYA JANATA PARTY: India, by fabric, by design, by structure, by constitution is secular. India's constitution protects the Indian democracy. No political party in country is strong enough to bulldoze the constitution, to bulldoze the will of the people.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Muslim-owned buildings are literally being bulldozed in what the government calls a crackdown on illegal construction and accused criminals, a brand of bulldozer justice all too common in India. Prime Minister Modi accused of adding fuel to the fire when he used a derogatory term for Muslims at a recent election rally.

Narendra Modi, Prime Minister of India: [Foreign Language].

RIPLEY (voice-over): He is running for a rare third term.

RIPLEY: What is the worst that could happen in your view over the next five years?

YASEEN: What happened I don't know. But that will be not good for our country.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Many Muslims in Modi's India say it doesn't feel like their country anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIPLEY (on camera): Under ten years of Prime Minister Modi, it is undeniable that a lot of good things have happened for India. Their global stature has increased. They are rocketing towards near- superpower status as the world's fastest-growing major economy. But on the ground here, what I have learned, I didn't know this before coming here, was just how many people feel that they are being left behind and that this success story for India has a darker side for those hundreds of millions of Muslims whose own leader called them infiltrators just a matter of days ago, Amara.

WALKER: What a fascinating report and some really great questions you asked, Will Ripley. Thank you for bringing that to us from New Delhi.

Still to come, we will be live at Columbia University in New York where protesters have occupied an academic building. Also, we will be live in London where King Charles has returned to public duties for the first time after revealing his treatment for cancer.

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[08:31:44] WALKER: At this hour, dozens of protesters are holed up in an academic building at New York's Columbia University. New images from inside Columbia's Hamilton Hall show a protester using a hammer to break a window and others attempting to block doorways. The students barricaded themselves inside overnight and the university is now warning other members of the campus community to stay away.

Columbia has become the epicenter for student-led protests against Israel's actions in Gaza. Let's bring in Julia Vargas Jones from the campus of Columbia University. What is the atmosphere like there right now?

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN FIELD PRODUCER: Amara, it is just a big question, what happens next? Right now, the students are barricaded in this building behind me. You can see there are some Palestinian flags flown from the windows, some banners. This has Hamilton Hall. This is where all those scenes we saw last night -- I want to show you just a little bit of what it looks like when you get a little closer.

These are the tables that were pushed to barricade these -- a few dozen perhaps, students that are still inside and this is that window that you just showed on that video. It is still like this. There are zip-ties getting this door to me shut. Everything has just being pushed. We saw all of that unfolding last night.

I wasn't here. I was one of the last people to get to campus. I think this morning (inaudible) student at Columbia University, but I am here at which Yasmeen. She was here all night, basically, right?

YASMEEN ALTAJI, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Right.

VARGAS JONES: And so, tell me a little bit how the things unfolded. There was that 2 p.m. deadline from Columbia to the encampment that had been set up here for almost 14 days, I think 13 days yesterday. That deadline came and went, 2 p.m. There were protests that erupted around campus. How did it get to this?

ALTAJI: Right. I mean, we had a clear defiance of the voluntary order to evacuate or clear the encampment. And what we ended up seeing was students mobilizing around midnight, just so that they could come to occupy Hamilton Hall, which was not known at the time, but that's obviously what happened. They were barricading up until about 3 a.m.

VARGAS JONES: Did you see the students going in?

ALTAJI: I did not.

VARGAS JONES: But you saw what was happening. So there was a human chain. Is that -- was that staff, who was there? Who was part of this?

ALTAJI: That's correct. There was a mix from what I could tell, of staff and students forming a barricade around the entry to this building and (inaudible) heavy metal furniture to keep people from going in and out.

VARGAS JONES: Yasmeen, you've been reporting on this. You're a student journalist. What is -- what have you been hearing from the organizers? What are they asking the university to do?

ALTAJI: I mean, really what the focus is, is to keep all eyes on Gaza and these students are saying we are trying to draw attention to what is a constant international concern for genocide. We've seen more than 30,000 people were killed in Gaza since the start of the Israel-Gaza war. And they're asking for divestment and disclosure of all investments that Columbia makes.

VARGAS JONES: I guess, the threat here is like, what does Columbia have to do with that?

[08:35:00]

VARGAS JONES: So, if they're asking for the divestment of Columbia in any assets that have anything to do with Israel. Now, here, a couple of weeks ago, we saw the NYPD coming in and the encampments that are just beyond Hamilton Hall here, they arrested over 100 students. That was met with backlash from protesters, right? Do you think -- do you sense any kind of a similar situation brewing now?

ALTAJI: Yeah. I mean, what we know is that the administration has said they will not call in NYPD for the time being. What I've seen among protesters and organizers is that they're not trusting that statement fully, so they're preparing for NYPD entry either way.

VARGAS JONES: And Amara, I mean that's like the big question here, is like whether or not NYPD will be called again to assist. This is private property. We have to remember that. It is private property. It is not a public university, so they have the right to kick out students and some of the students that have been protesting, they were then suspended. Once they are suspended and they are no longer a student, they have no right to be on campus and they could be arrested as well, Amara.

WALKER: Just extraordinary scenes we are seeing play out there at Columbia University at Hamilton Hall, which has had a history of student takeovers, namely, as we saw during the Vietnam War in the '60s. Julia Vargas Jones, really appreciate you being there. Thank you so much.

All right, at any minute now, Donald Trump will begin his trek from Trump Tower to Downtown Manhattan for his hush money trial. We expect today's testimony to pick up where things left off on Friday with Michael Cohen's former banker taking the stand. These are live pictures in Manhattan there, you just saw Trump waving as he is now about to get into his motorcade and head to the courthouse.

Now, this banker of Michael Cohen, Gary Farro, says he helped Cohen set up an account that Cohen has said he used to pay porn star Stormy Daniels to remain quiet about her alleged affair with Trump. We are still awaiting as well, a ruling from the judge on whether Trump has repeatedly violated the gag order in the case by talking about Cohen and other witnesses.

All right. Now, for some legal analysis of what has happened so far and what may play out this week in Trump's criminal hush money trial with Jeff Swartz. He is a prosecutor -- was a prosecutor before becoming a judge in Florida, and he is also now a law school professor. He is joining me from Tampa.

Jeff, good morning to you. Can we start with this gag order and when Judge Merchan might rule on whether or not he will hold Trump in contempt for violating a gag order several times. What do you -- what do you think the timing will be on that?

JEFFREY SWARTZ, FORMER FLORIDA JUDGE: Good morning, Amara. I kind of believe that this is not going to happen until early as sometime Wednesday, very late, or early Thursday. I liked the idea of Thursday morning when they start court. I think the judge wants to inquire of Mr. Trump whether in fact he has read the order, whether he understands the order, whether he understands the consequences of what he is doing will only get worse. I think this is an effort by Judge Merchan without putting him in jail to make sure that Mr. Trump understands who is in charge in the courtroom. And in fact, that Mr. Trump is not the party in charge, and the Judge Merchan is not going to allow his power to be superseded by Mr. Trump.

WALKER: Realistically --

SWARTZ: It is really a struggle.

WALKER: Yeah. But Jeff, I mean, it is a struggle, right? You were just about to say that because you look at the fines that the prosecution is asking for, $1,000 per violation. And there citing 14 violations of this gag order. That's what $14,000. That's pocket change for Donald Trump.

SWARTZ: Yeah.

WALKER: How would that even begin to deter his behavior of attacking witnesses and court staff?

SWARTZ: I don't think that the judge actually expects the fine to mean anything to Donald Trump. What will mean something that Donald Trump is having to answer questions directly to the judge, answering them with a yes, your honor. Take -- showing some fealty to the power of the court, which is something that will really affect Mr. Trump's attitude. I think that's what he is really looking for.

WALKER: Yeah.

SWARTZ: When I was sitting on the bench, I was never used to telling people twice what my order said. I was never used to twice asking people to do something.

WALKER: Yeah.

SWARTZ: Open defiance in court is just a bad thing.

WALKER: It sure is. And obviously, Judge Merchan is in a quite challenging position at that. Quickly, regarding the testimony from Gary Farro, Michael Cohen's former banker, what will you be looking out for? [08:40:00]

WALKER: What will you be listening for? Because this is about the paper trail, right? And to show a connection to Trump and the payments to Stormy Daniels.

SWARTZ: The question now for me is what more are they going to put on beyond, Mr. Farro? Mr. Farro's testimony will be all the paperwork they will show, how it all worked, how the money was taken out, how it was repaid, in what type of chunks it was repaid. It will also possibly be some conversation which may be admissible as prior consistent statements of Mr. Cohen, may come in at this point of things that Cohen may have said to Mr. Farro in the process of completing this. I don't know.

To the same extent, it is really a setup for more of the same at least for another day or so, and then I think the prosecution is going to have to come up with a more riveting witness. And I don't know who that will be, but we are not going to see Mr. Cohen for quite awhile.

WALKER: Stormy Daniels?

SWARTZ: Stormy Daniels, McDougal, maybe someone else that will rivet them towards the things that are happening. But I think something else needs to (ph) happen.

WALKER: Jeff Swartz, always great to have you. Thank you.

SWARTZ: Nice to be here (ph).

WALKER: Britain's King Charles has returned to public duties for the first time since he revealed he was receiving treatment for cancer. Charles and Queen Camilla met with patients and staff at a cancer treatment center in London earlier. The king announced in February he had been diagnosed with an undisclosed form of cancer and that he was undergoing treatment. In March, his daughter-in-law, Catherine, the Princess of Wales, said she too was having cancer treatment.

CNN's Max Foster is joining me now live from London. Good morning. Hello, Max. So, how did the king look?

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he looked incredibly well, didn't he? He was buzzing. I know he's been very frustrated about being stuck indoors effectively for the last few months. This is his first public engagement since February and his cancer diagnosis. We saw him briefly on an impromptu walk about, over Easter, but his doctors are clearly happy enough for him to meet whoever he likes now in the hospital. And as they spoke to patients, you could really see how they had a much greater connection than normal because Charles was able to relate to exactly what they were going through with his own cancer diagnosis.

He really made the point about early diagnosis being important. And I think this is really what he is trying to do here, use his experience to try to take some good out of it, bring attention to these sort of cancer units, give out the message that it is important to get an early diagnosis, and also to stay positive. That's the message you got from this. I am told that we are not going to be told exactly what form of cancer he has got. He is still committed to that. We are not being told what level of treatment he is at either. But he clearly looks incredibly well and I think that's been quite reassuring to people who were quite concerned about him, that he is back on the road as it were (ph), Amara.

WALKER: Yeah, big smiles, looking great as you say, Max Foster, as are you. Always great to see you, Max. Take care. All right. Still to come, an exclusive report from Haiti. CNN speaks with one of the country's most influential gang leaders, that's next.

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[08:45:30]

WALKER: People in Haiti are hoping to see the return of peace and stability, or at least a functioning government now that a new national council has been assembled. But years of corruption and gang violence have left the country in ruins. CNN negotiated for weeks to get an interview with one of Haiti's most notorious gang leaders, a man with a $2 million bounty on his head. And a warning, our Exclusive Report from David Culver contains some graphic video.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vitel'homme agrees to meet us.

CULVER: Hi, there.

CULVER (voice-over): On his turf.

CULVER: I am David.

CULVER (voice-over): Flanked by his followers, he leads us inside this flashy mansion.

CULVER: And so, is this your home?

CULVER (voice-over): In a room filled with gold-rimmed furniture and stuffed animals, I ask him about the crisis engulfing Haiti.

VITEL'HOMME INNOCENT, LEADER OF KRAZE BARYE (through translator): Our dream is to rid the country of the corrupt oligarchs and politicians who are holding us back, he says. We need to get rid of the system and then returned stability to Haiti. He speaks with intention and calls for greater dialog. But if it is the same system that's been in power, then as armed groups, we will never put down our weapons, he says.

CULVER: And so, do you have regular communications with, as you say, the other armed groups?

CULVER (voice-over): Yes, we are united, he tells me.

The gangs have formed a coalition known as "Viv Ansanm" or living together. And collectively, they push back on foreign intervention, holding tight their grips over a fractured state, some using terror tactics like kidnapping, rape, and murder to sustain control.

CULVER: Is that something you participated in, in ordering you are men and women, to kidnap?

CULVER (voice-over): He says he hopes to defend himself in court against those allegations. And while not denying his followers have kidnapped people, he deflects blame to outside forces for creating a state of corruption as he sees it. He is eager to show us other parts of his home and territory, and introduces us to his top commander.

CULVER: So, you are his cousin?

CULVER (voice-over): Security experts suggest Kraze Barye has more than 1,000 armed gang members, including recently escaped inmates.

CULVER: As you can see, a lot of his armed soldiers and followers are around us. And he is suggesting that we follow and drive with them.

CULVER (voice-over): He brings us to the edge of his territory. We notice his guards, normally curious and watching us, are instead looking outward cautiously, toward another gang's territory, a reminder that the coalition of gangs might be more fragile than portrayed. In the midst of our tour, a disturbing video starts circulating on WhatsApp. It reportedly shows the devastating and deadly aftermath of an allied gang attack on a community a few miles from where we are.

CULVER The destruction, the violence, the deaths that have played out, do you take any responsibility for that?

CULVER (voice-over): He only says he made mistakes and is not perfect. He blames politicians. We are interrupted, something nearby puts his guards on edge. We pick up the conversation a short distance away, Senior Editor Caitlin Hu further pressing for an explanation to the horrors we've seen in Haiti.

CAITLIN HU, CNN SENIOR EDITOR: But we have also met in hospitals, women, children, innocent people who have been burned, who have been forced to leave their homes, who have been shot, who have been raped. Why are innocent people suffering in this struggle?

CULVER (voice-over): He does not clearly answer. Instead, he frames the months of deadly street violence as collateral damage. He points the finger at police, saying they refused to engage in dialog and instead, recklessly opened fire. Police say they're desperately trying to keep the gangs from gaining more ground.

Vitel'homme claims to be a man of faith, devout in practicing Vodou, a common religion here in Haiti.

CULVER: I have heard rumors and I don't know how true they are. So I asked you that you have Vodou protection. Do you feel that protection?

CULVER (voice-over): Yes, he tells me confidently, adding that he prays daily for his fellow Haitians.

CULVER: Ultimately, what is it going to take to bring stability and a future of calm to this country?

[08:50:00]

CULVER (voice-over): He says he and the other armed groups need to be included in discussions of Haiti's future. That's the only way he sees convincing gang members to drop their guns in exchange for a future outside of violence. As curfew nears, we head back the way we came. Vitel'homme stopping several times along the way, mingling with locals, handing out food, smiling as though on a campaign trail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are getting home.

CULVER (voice-over): He wants us to meet these two men, blind refugees. They tell us Vitel'homme took them in, but it leaves us wondering why help these men and force so many others out of their homes. Look at actions over words, he tells me. As we near the edge of his territory and the end of our five-hour visit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's not hang around here, if we have to.

CULVER (voice-over): Vitel'homme gets out of his motorcade, waves for us to move forward, and strolls to the desolate street corner.

He then comes to our door and shakes each of our hands. His actions intentional and symbolic.

CULVER: Here we are, just blocks (inaudible) that's fairly demonstration of how confident he is, and the many he has around him. He's playing (inaudible).

CULVER (voice-over): A flexing of strength in a lawless nation where, today at least, gangs hold the power.

David Culver, CNN, Port-au-Prince, Haiti.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALKER: As Paris gears up for the summer Olympics, one of the fiercest competitions might be the search for an affordable place to stay. The hunt for reasonable rentals is a struggle for many locals year round, but the city has working to change that. CNN's Melissa Bell has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The view second to none, the location as central as they get. But this rent-controlled apartment is now Catherine's for just $800 a month.

CATHERINE CORTINOVIS, LA SAMARITAINE RESIDENT (through translator): Welcome. The first time I saw it, I was so emotional that I burst into tears. BELL (voice-over): And this is the building she was able to move into. Re-opened amid great pomp in 2021 after some 16 years of renovation, La Samaritaine is one of the French capital's most iconic spots for luxury shopping and dining, not to mention its five-star hotel. But La Samaritaine was also obliged, as part of its reconstruction, to include 96 apartments for the city of Paris to let at modest rates.

JACQUES BAUDRIER, DEPUTY MAYOR OF PARIS IN CHARGE OF HOUSING: If you let the markets act, we will have only empty houses, second homes for rich French people. If you want to stay a living city, with people and everything in the city, we must develop a lot of social holdings.

BELL: Across Europe, there is a danger of cities turning into museums and ordinary people being pushed out. But here in Paris, there is the added particularity that this was a city entirely redesigned in the mid-19th century. And that's exactly what gives it its beauty, but also what makes it difficult for the city to adapt to the needs of the 21st century.

BELL (voice-over): All the more so that in the 20th century, social housing was built on the outskirts, in the so-called (inaudible) where occasionally top architects were hired to design vast social housing and sometimes grand projects like (inaudible) that was built in the early 1980s. But for all their occasional grandeur, estates like these were kept at arm's length of the streets (ph) of Central Paris which meant long commutes for those who lived there.

[08:55:00]

BELL (voice-over): Then in 2001, Paris' Town Hall was won by the left.

IAN BROSSAT, COMMUNIST PARTY SENATOR (through translator): Our objective is social mixing. Avoiding ghettos for poor people; avoiding ghettos for rich people. And therefore, prioritizing social housing where there is not enough.

BELL (voice-over): Private precinct owners wary of lowering house values (inaudible) as Ian Brossat just one of the hurdles that Paris' Town Hall had to overcome. In fact, the average price of a one-bedroom apartment in Paris has more than doubled these last 20 years and nearly tripled in some areas for two-bedroom homes, which in turn has made centrally located social housing all the more important. Already, it is one in nine precincts the benefits. People like Zina, whose place in the Samaritaine development allows her to live close to the Central Paris Hospital where she works.

ZINA HADJAB, LA SAMARITAINE RESIDENT (through translator): As they say, it's an open air museum, it's pleasant. It's really a good place to live.

BELL (voice-over): An open air museum that is now seeking to help those who keep its schools and hospitals running to be able to benefit from them too.

Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALKER: Melissa Bell, thank you for that. And thank you for being with me here on "CNN Newsroom." I am Amara Walker. Up next, our special coverage of Donald Trump's hush money trial begins.

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