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NYPD Clears Columbia University Premises After Days of Encampment and Violent Protests; Blinken Speaks to Protesters in Israel Ahead of the Talks on Ceasefire and Hostage Deal; Trump Warns of Jail Time and Penalties If He Continues to Violate Gag Orders. Violent Pro-Palestinian Protests Erupting in the UCLA Premises. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired May 01, 2024 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world and to everyone streaming us on CNN Max. I'm Rosemary Church.

Just ahead, the New York Police Department clears a building on the Columbia University campus, removing people protesting Israel's war in Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We will enter Rafah because we have no other choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu doubles down on Rafah, saying troops will invade the city with or without a hostage and ceasefire deal.

And Donald Trump gets a fine and a warning of possible jail time for future violations of a gag order as his hush money trial wraps up its ninth day.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Rosemary Church.

CHURCH: Thanks for being with us. Well, we have been watching dramatic scenes unfold on the campus of one of America's most prestigious universities.

And just a few hours ago, New York police confirmed Columbia University has been cleared of pro-Palestinian protesters, some of whom had occupied one of the main buildings on campus.

Demonstrators have barricaded themselves inside Hamilton Hall for the better part of a day. Police entered the building through a second- story window and used what they call distraction devices, including flashbangs, but not tear gas.

Now we are told the doors of Hamilton Hall were barricaded with chairs, tables and vending machines. More than 100 protesters have since been arrested, both at Columbia as well as the nearby City College. But the student protest leaders remain defiant. One of them spoke to CNN's John Berman as the arrests were unfolding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHMOUD KHALI, LEAD COLUMBIA STUDENT NEGOTIATOR: The university thinks that this would discourage students from calling for the end of the war in Gaza and the end of Columbia's investment in the companies that are investing in the genocide of the Palestinian people.

Since we started our negotiation last Friday, the university did not deal with this movement as an actual movement, an anti-war movement.

Instead, they dealt with it as an internal student discipline matter. They've negotiated with us about bringing food and blankets to the encampment. They refused to acknowledge that this is actually more than that. This is a nationwide movement. This is a movement that asks Columbia to divest its investments from the companies that are fueling the war in Gaza right now. So what I'm feeling right now, I'm feeling disgraced.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: John Towfighi is a Columbia student and CNN freelancer and joins us now from New York. John, good to see you again. 24 hours ago, of course, you were reporting on this show on pro-Palestinian protesters occupying Hamilton Hall. Now they've been arrested and loaded onto buses. You've been told to remain in your dorm, but are you able to tell us what the scene on campus has been overnight?

JOHN TOWFIGHI, UNDERGRADUATE STUDENT AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY AND CNN FREELANCER: Yeah, thank you for having me back. As you mentioned, I'm currently in my dorm room, which is an undergraduate residence hall located off the campus on 114th Street and the corner of Broadway.

I'm directly just across from the campus. And earlier today, around 9 p.m., when the NYPD came in to clear Hamilton Hall, which was occupied, law enforcement asked all students in their dormitories to remain put. I went downstairs about 30 minutes ago. I was able to go out onto the street. As I walked around, things were quiet, almost eerily quiet.

There were pairs of police officers outside the doors to the buildings along 114th Street and NYPD surrounding the perimeter around campus.

As a student, I currently do not have swipe access to the main campus, and most people are staying in their dorms.

CHURCH: Interesting. And how are students responding to a request from Columbia University for New York police to continue to have a presence on campus until at least May 17th to avoid any new encampments and ensure graduation ceremonies go smoothly? [03:04:59]

TOWFIGHI: Of course. So speaking to students on the ground, the general sentiment is uncertainty, confusion, and a sense of disrespect from the administration to the students.

Of course, the students are quite appalled by University President Manoush Shafiq's decision to call in the NYPD on Thursday, April 18th -- initially Thursday, April 18th, and then again tonight. And now this decision to keep the NYPD on campus has students feeling quite confused.

Faculty as well have told me that they have not heard directly from the president about this decision, and they are learning about it with the public as it unfolds through official statements. This lack of communication from the president to the community has created a sense of confusion over why the police are staying.

CHURCH: Right. And what more are you learning about officials saying that some of these protesters weren't actually Columbia students? What can you tell us about that?

TOWFIGHI: Yeah, of course. So that's been a really contentious issue. The NYPD say that they think about half of the protesters occupying Hamilton Hall were non-affiliates, what they're calling outside agitators.

Since the arrest took place, and there were nearly 100 people arrested at Columbia, there has not been an official disclosure of how many students there were and how many outside people there were.

People are going back and forth on this question. Video has circulated on social media of people climbing into windows on Columbia's campus last night when people occupied Hamilton. However, there has been an official university policy restricting access to campus to only Columbia affiliates. So technically, any outside agitators would have had to disobey university policy and sneak by the university sanctioned public safety.

CHURCH: And John, before you go, I did want to ask, you mentioned that many of the students felt confused and disrespected when administrators there on campus brought in the police. But surely once these pro-Palestinian protesters had moved into the building, Hamilton Hall and barricaded themselves inside there as trespassers in actual fact, I mean, they were breaking the law, they were yet confused still that police were brought in? I mean, that was ultimately going to happen, wasn't it?

TOWFIGHI: Yeah, I think that's a great point. And I think it's very fair to point out that the student protesters dramatically escalated things in the past 24 hours by illegally occupying Hamilton Hall.

I think the sense of confusion does not come from the imposition of law and order, because students, of course, want to have a normal final exam period and graduate. The sense of confusion more so comes from the university's fraught relationship with the NYPD. In 1968, in fact, this was the 56th anniversary of the NYPD raid in

1968 on anti-war protesters that had occupied Hamilton Hall. There was a sense of uncertainty as to why the university wasn't being clear about their communication with the police department.

Faculty and students felt if the NYPD was going to be called in, they would have liked advanced notice. This notice was not received, creating a sense of confusion. So while people are happy that the university made a decision to quell this illegal occupation of the Hamilton Hall, the relationship historically between Columbia and the NYPD means it's a more of a murky conversation and people have different feelings on the subject.

CHURCH: All right. Our thanks to John Towfighi reporting there from his dorm near campus. I Appreciate it.

So what happens next for the dozens of people arrested Tuesday night? CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson spells out the likely scenario.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Do you distinguish the students from the non-students, right? How they got onto the campus? What specifically did they do? Were they peaceful? And so in essence, what will happen is that they will go to this arrest processing location.

At some point, they'll be arraigned. What that means in English is they'll be brought before a judge. They'll be formally charged with either disorderly conduct or criminal trespass or whatever the appropriate charges are, depending upon the specific conduct. At that time, they'll be released, right? There are bail reform laws in New York. There's nothing violent in nature. That is a blessing, right? We're seeing optics, not of any violence, not of any interactions of a negative variety.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Police have been asked to remain at Columbia until May 17th, which is two days after graduation ceremonies to make sure the encampments are gone for good.

All right, bringing up these live pictures, you're looking at them. They're just about the campus of UCLA, where there have been reports of protests have turned violent this evening. Now we are monitoring the situation there and we'll bring you more details as we get them in here at CNN.

[03:09:55]

All right, happening now, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken speaking to protesters in Tel Aviv, Israel. The top U.S. diplomat has just wrapped up a meeting with Israeli President Isaac Herzog. He's in Tel Aviv hoping to secure a ceasefire and hostage deal between Israel and Hamas. Let's just keep a look. We'll keep watching these pictures.

All right. So as we continue to watch those pictures, CNN's Paula Hancocks joins me now from Abu Dhabi. Paula, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is insisting that a Rafah offensive is happening with or without a ceasefire deal, but U.S. officials don't believe that an offensive is imminent. How can they be so sure and what is the latest on all of this?

PPAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rosemary, there does feel like there's a small window of opportunity to secure this hostage deal at this point. We are hearing different things from the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, as you say. He said publicly that he would be going into Rafah with or without a hostage deal.

But then we've also heard from an Israeli source that a deal would prevent Rafah.

So it's difficult to know exactly what the stance is. And you can see there the U.S. Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, actually speaking to some of the protesters after meeting with the Israeli president. So he is in Israel really to try and secure this deal. Let's listen to what he said earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Even as we're working with relentless determination to get the ceasefire that brings the hostages home, we also have to be focused on people in Gaza who are suffering in this crossfire of Hamas is making. And so focused on getting them the assistance they need, the food, medicine, the water, the shelter is also very much on our minds and the work that we're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANCOCKS: So U.S. official tells CNN that they don't believe that a Rafah ground offensive is imminent, they're saying potentially not in the next few weeks, because that is the indication that they have had from the Netanyahu government. We've heard also from the national security spokesperson John Kirby saying yet again, that they do not support this major ground offensive.

And if it does happen, they want to see a plan to evacuate safely, more than a million people who are sheltering in Rafah at this point, many of them have been moved from where they live by the Israeli military saying, Rafah, they will be safe. And many of them have been moved a number of times. And the U.S. says that they simply haven't seen a credible plan at this point, that shows how that can happen.

So there's a few different strands to this. The fact that the Israeli Prime Minister is being so strong, rhetorically saying that, that this will go ahead, it could also play to his domestic audience, he is under pressure from the far-right in Israel, much of which is in his own cabinet. But he could also be trying to push Hamas and push this deal for the hostages to be released.

Now at this point, we know that hostage deal is potentially 20 to 33 hostages in return for several weeks of pause, Palestinian prisoners being released. And we understand that the onus on this point is on Hamas waiting for

the leader in Gaza to make a decision on whether or not they would accept that proposal.

Now the U.S. has put the pressure on Hamas saying that it is in the balls in their court at this point. And it's extraordinarily generous is, the quote, "what Israel has agreed to at this point".

We understand from an Israeli source that Israel has agreed to allow displaced Palestinians to move back to north Gaza. That was one of the real sticking points that we have seen over recent weeks. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Paula, just stand by for a moment. We just want to bring that that footage that video up and the sound of U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken meeting and talking with those protesters after his meeting with the Israeli president. Let's just bring that up for a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLINKEN: I just wanted to tell you. I just had an opportunity to meet with some of the families of some of the hostages as I have on every visit to Israel. Of course, President Biden has done and so many of my colleagues has done. And I just wanted to share with you what I just shared with them. Bringing your loved ones home is at the heart of everything we're trying to do.

And we will not rest until everyone, men, women, soldiers, civilians, young, old, is back home. There is a very strong proposal on the table right now. Hamas needs to say yes and needs to get this done.

[03:15:06]

That is our determination. And we will not rest, we will not stop until you're reunited with your loved ones. So please, keep strong, keep the faith. We will be with you every single day until we get this done. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Antony Blinken, they're vowing that all hostages will be brought home and referring to that latest deal that Egypt proposed. Still waiting, of course, for Hamas to respond to that. So talk to us about how critical it is with this particular deal and where this stands, how hopeful people are that this could actually lead to a ceasefire.

HANCOCKS: Well, I think it's worth mentioning just how remarkable that is to see a U.S. Secretary of State seemingly ad hoc going to speak to some of the protesters. This is not something you see every day. And it could speak to potentially the optimism that the Secretary of State feels at this point. He said there is an extremely strong deal on the table. He has said that he believes there could be a deal within the coming days. It's fairly specific, and it is a fairly short-term scenario. That does appear to feel as though there is a window of opportunity.

We know that Hamas went to Cairo on Monday to speak to Egyptian and Qatari mediators. We know that Israeli officials have gone on Tuesday. We understand that there are U.S. mediators in the mix as well. So there certainly is a hope that something could be done.

But there is also this recognition that if this doesn't turn out well, then this Rafah ground-off offensive could certainly take place. We have been here before, Rosemary, where things appear to be optimistic. And certainly the U.S. has been very vocal in the past about saying how imminent a hostage deal was, only to be disappointed.

CHURCH: Yeah. A very important point. Paula Hancocks joining us live from Abu Dhabi with that report. I Appreciate it.

And still to come, a New York judge penalizes Donald Trump after finding he violated the gag order in his criminal hush money trial multiple times. Details of his warning for the embattled Republican frontrunner just ahead.

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CHURCH: The New York judge overseeing Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial warned the former U.S. president he could face jail time if he continues to violate the gag order in the case. Judge Juan Merchan handed down a $9,000 fine for nine violations. The maximum allowed by law.

[03:20:01]

Trump later criticized the punishment after court and called the gag order unconstitutional. He likely faces more fines for other gag order violations when the trial resumes on Thursday. CNN's Kara Scannell has more now from New York.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the stand, the ex- lawyer for two women, a Playboy model and adult film star at the center of former president Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial.

Attorney Keith Davidson testified on Tuesday, revealing new details about the deal at the crux of the prosecution's case.

A $130,000 payment to adult film star Stormy Daniels to kill a story on an alleged affair with Trump weeks before the 2016 election. Davidson represented Daniels in the arrangement, selling the story to Trump's former attorney, Michael Cohen. Trump denies having an affair with Daniels.

Prosecutors have alleged that Trump did not want to write the check, so Cohen put up the money on his behalf after Cohen confirmed Trump would pay him back. Davidson testified the release of the Access Hollywood tape in October 2016 sparked tremendous interest in her story. The "National Enquirer" editor Dylan Howard text Davidson that her story would be the end for Trump's campaign. Davidson text Howard Trump is effed. Wave the white flag. It's over

people. Howard responded to Davidson's text. Howard said in a text. Yeah, but her talking and taking is the final nail in the coffin. But he's effed already.

After Cohen missed the deadline to wire the money multiple times, Davidson testified he believed Cohen was stalling on the deal. Davidson said he told Cohen I don't believe a word really that you say.

Cohen responded. God damn it. What do you expect me to do? My guy is in five different states today.

And Davidson told him of his clients and happiness. Recalling Cohen told him God damn it. I'll just do it myself.

Davidson told the jury I thought he was trying to kick the can down the road until after the election.

Earlier in the day, the jury heard from Michael Cohen's former banker, Gary Farrow, who testified about Cohen's scramble to open and fund an account in late October 2016.

Farrow revealed he did not know Cohen's payment was being made to an adult film star or that it was related to political activity. If he had, he testified it would have required a much longer review and potentially would not have opened the account.

Davidson also represented former Playboy model Karen McDougal, who alleged a nearly yearlong romantic affair with Trump, which Trump also denies. Prosecutors asked Davidson about the agreement to sell McDougal story to the Enquirer, which was ultimately sold to the tabloids parent company for $150,000 dollars and buried before the election.

Davidson text Howard in June 2016. I have a blockbuster Trump story. Howard text back. Talk first thing. I will get you more than anyone for it. You know why.

Days later, Howard responded again, asking, did he cheat on Melania? Davidson testified there was an unspoken understanding that the Enquirer bought her story to bury it because of a close affiliation between the tabloids publisher and Trump and that AMI would not run this story or any story related to Karen and Donald Trump because it would tend to hurt Donald Trump.

Well, Davidson testified about McDougal and Daniels. Trump's son, Eric Trump, sat in the front row of the gallery listening. He is the first family member of Trump's to attend the trial. And court began with Judge Juan Merchan handing down a much anticipated ruling, saying Donald Trump violated the gag order that prevents him from discussing witnesses in the case nine times. Trump was fined $9,000 total, $1,000 per violation.

Kara Scannell, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: All right. We do want to take you back to these live pictures from the UCLA campus.

And we know at this stage that there have been reports that protests there have turned violent this evening. We're monitoring this scene. Of course, this comes just as we've been bringing you reporting of what has been happening at the Columbia University. And that's where police had to go in when students barricaded themselves in one of the academic buildings, Hamilton Hall, on campus there. And they arrested a couple of dozen or a few dozen protesters there and cleared the area.

Now we're looking at what's happening at UCLA, where this violence, as we say, is increasing. We've been reporting in the past few days of dueling protests there between Jewish students and pro-Palestinian students. And of course, we've been reporting that some 16 or so states across the United States, a number of campuses where students have been protesting against what is happening in Gaza to civilians there in the midst of the war with Israel.

And we will continue our coverage after this. We'll be back in just a moment.

[03:25:04]

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CHURCH: All right. We're taking these live pictures from the campus of UCLA, where there have been reports that protests have turned violent this evening. And of course, we are monitoring this. And we're also welcoming our viewers across the United States.

Last weekend, we brought you reports of dueling protests between pro- Palestinian protest groups and Jewish groups there.

And now we're seeing this happening. And of course, this is just as we've seen wrapped up the situation at Columbia University in New York, where police were sent in to bring out students who barricaded themselves inside a building there at Hamilton Hall.

So we will continue to watch this story. And as we say, this is UCLA. We've been looking at aerial shots and shots from the ground there where violence is increasing on the campus. And we will, of course, continue to bring any new information on that.

So we mentioned Columbia campus. So let's bring you the latest on that. New York police have cleared pro-Palestinian protesters from the campus of Columbia University, arresting more than 100 people, both at the school as well as the nearby City College.

Police faced loud cheers as they approached campus to remove protesters who had barricaded themselves inside one of Columbia's main buildings, as we mentioned, Hamilton Hall.

Authorities say the occupation of that building was led by individuals not affiliated with the university. Police have been asked to remain on campus for the next two and a half weeks to make sure protesters don't rebuild their encampments with graduation ceremonies set for mid-May.

And CNN was on the scene as the police operation unfolded. Here are some of the most compelling moments as they played out on our air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SR. U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Police are now going in. They are now going into the Columbia campus. I can see them going into campus on the 114th Street side.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SR. CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: We are right with them right now. They are moving in. They are walking. These are the search teams that we were with earlier. They are now making their way towards the campus.

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN REPORTER: Okay, we're moving. We're moving. We're moving.

Just pushing people out. And they're placing themselves in all the media and the protests and that human chain that we have been caught already. I can hear the boo (inaudible), I see them. I see up there. Behind that Palestinian flag there's someone there that's observing everything that's going on. There they are. There they are. Up there.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, AC360: They brought a large armored vehicle that has sort of a crane-like arm that's brought them up to that window and now it looks like they're gaining entrance into that window.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Yeah, so that's a Bearcat. Normally that's a bulletproof rescue vehicle that they use when people are pinned down by gunfire. Not the purpose here.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SR. U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We are seeing people arrested coming out down the streets. Coming down another. There's another entrance down 114th and they're starting to bring people out of the Columbia grounds. If you look at these buses, you can see the number of people inside the buses there.

Many of them with Columbia sweaters. A lot of them wearing (inaudible). I see at least-- watch your step, watch your step. I see at least a dozen people in that bus. This bus has lots of police officers who are with arrestees on this bus. It must be in the dozens at this point and here are more people who are coming out of Columbia right now.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SR. CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It's just a stunning picture to think that this is a university, Columbia University, that the police were entering in such a way because the doors were barricaded. The group broke in in the morning and has been there all day. They unfurled flags here or signs here today. They were up on the roof at one point. So the NYPD really spent the day planning for this and then surged, I mean, hundreds, if not at least a thousand officers here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we want to go back to these live pictures coming out of UCLA. And of course, as we've been reporting, these protests have turned violent on the campus. We understand that clashes between competing groups around the encampment.

And of course, we did report a similar situation last weekend between pro-Palestinian protesters and Jewish students there on the campus and that got very heated and violent in some instances. It appears that we're looking at a similar situation and the "L.A. Times" has been reporting that the UCLA has moved to shut down pro-Palestinian encampments, calling them unlawful and warning students to leave.

So we're looking at these aerial shots now, you can see, and of course, it's just after midnight. So it is 12:32 in L.A. at this time. So just after midnight and we're looking at these students, the encampment, presumably it's underway, although we can't make any assumptions from these pictures, but from what the "L.A. Times" is reporting, it appears that they have been warned to these students, these protesters, that the encampments are unlawful and that they're looking to shut them down. So warning these students to leave.

And this comes, of course, as we've been bringing you reports of police moving in in New York on the Columbia University campus, where students that had very much escalated to the point that some activists and students had barricaded themselves inside an academic building, the Hamilton Hall.

But those police, it was a very smooth operation. The police moved into the campus and eventually into Hamilton Hall and removed those students, arresting those who refused to leave quietly. So now we're looking at another campus and all of this is coming as we have been covering multiple campuses across the United States, across about 16 states, in fact, where students have been protesting against what is happening in Gaza, protesting the loss of civilian lives as a result of the war between Israel and Hamas.

And of course, all of this coming as we could perhaps be at a crossroads. We know that U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is in Israel. He's just met with Israel's president and he has spoken to some of the protesters there in Israel too. And at this point, there is a proposal from Egypt to hopefully bring the war in Gaza to an end. But at this juncture, we are waiting to hear from Hamas. Hamas is considering the various points.

[03:35:00]

And of course, as we're talking to you, we can see that there are some scuffles here. Of course, it's in the dark. We're talking, you know, it's 12:34 at night in Los Angeles.

And obviously here, we've been learning from the various affiliates that are covering this. We're seeing some exchanges here, clashes between competing groups. We were reporting last weekend those clashes between pro-Palestinian protesters and Jewish students, and they got violent in those instances.

We appear to be witnessing a similar situation again. It's very difficult to make assumptions when you're looking in the dark at vision from above.

But this is the situation, the encampment there at UCLA and the protests on that campus have become violent at various times. So we continue to cover this as we have watched this happen on various other campuses across the country where there have been arrests and various points of scuffles and violence.

And again, of course, as we watch this, we've been bringing you all of the footage and all of the coverage throughout the night, because at 9 p.m. Eastern time, police went into the campus in New York, the Columbia University campus, and very quickly and promptly removed those protesters. Not all of them were students in actual fact in Hamilton Hall. Some of them were activists outside of the student body. But now we're watching again a similar sort of escalation of these protests happening on the ground there at UCLA.

And this is a huge campus. It's an incredible campus in fact. And we will continue to follow this story. We'll take a short break now and we'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: You're back with us with this breaking news, looking at these live pictures from the campus of UCLA, where there have been reports that protests have turned violent this evening. And we've seen these clashes between competing groups around the encampment, that according to our CNN affiliates.

And we know, of course, this is coming as protests like this, pro- Palestinian protests across the United States at various campuses have been underway, some getting violent. We've reported on a number of arrests. And we know, of course, last weekend, we covered the dueling protests between pro-Palestinian demonstrators and those supporting Jewish students. And now we're seeing this unfold. And of course, it's difficult in the dark. We have not seen any police presence, certainly not at this juncture.

But as we take these aerial shots and ones from below, it's a little easier to see the shots on the right, a little brighter there certainly. But we did see some violent exchanges between students there at the encampment. This is at the protest encampment base.

Now, we know the "L.A. Times" has been reporting that the university has grown weary of these protests and has asked the students to move on and to close down this encampment. We're yet to see that occur. And just reminding everyone, of course, as we're watching this, again, we make the point, no police presence at this juncture.

And of course, a lot of universities prefer to hold off on that and to allow these sorts of situations to play out naturally. But of course, we did see in New York a very different turn of events there as it started to escalate. So let's look at that. We'll continue to monitor these pictures, of course, and watch that situation.

But let's talk to you about what happened in New York, where police cleared pro-Palestinian protesters from the campus of Columbia University, arresting more than 100 people both at the school, as well as the nearby City College. Police faced loud jeers as they approached campus to remove protesters who had barricaded themselves inside one of Columbia's main buildings at Hamilton Hall. And authorities say the occupation of the building was led by individuals not affiliated with the university.

Steve Moore is a retired FBI supervisory special agent and CNN law enforcement contributor. He joins us now. Appreciate you being with us.

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR AND RETIRED FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: Thanks for having me, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So we all watch police moving to arrest pro-Palestinian protesters who had occupied Hamilton Hall, an academic building on Columbia University's campus. How would you assess the way they carried out their duties?

MOORE: It was impressive. It was surprisingly smooth.

Some of the things that I saw that really, I think, led to this outcome was the fact that they had overwhelming force.

And when you hear the term overwhelming force, you think violence, but it's actually the other way around.

When you have a large surplus of officers essentially going into clear location, people tend not to resist as much when they're outnumbered. Studies have shown that the more superior your numbers are, the less the people who you are coming to remove will be injured.

[03:45:04]

So the fact that they were able to get that many officers that quickly to handle this was very impressive. Of course, the speed and the planning of the operation were impressive also.

CHURCH: Yeah, it went a lot faster than a lot of people were thinking. Of course, some people suggested this was going to take all night. It certainly did not. So we have learned that Columbia University is now requesting that the New York Police Department maintain order on campus until at least May 17th to ensure graduation ceremonies run smoothly and that new encampments of protests are not re-established. What's your reaction to that request?

MOORE: Well, I think it's a wise request because as we're learning now, and it's not a surprise to me being in the FBI, there are outside agitators who are actually involved with these students. A number of them were arrested earlier, at least were part of groups that have been occupying areas.

And so what they believe, what the Columbia University Regents and Dean believe, is that they are not going to go away. They're not going to see this as, well, they threw us out of the hall and they took away our lawn. So we're leaving. We're going home. No, no, no, no, no.

They will look for the next vulnerable spot. And I expect them to be back, but probably not in the places that they want to occupy the most.

CHURCH: Right. And of course, it has to be said, I mean, everyone has a right to protest, but we have been watching pro-Palestinian protests being held across the country and in about 16 different states with dueling protests and violent scaffolds at UCLA and some arrests at various campuses, but nothing that escalated to this level with the barricading of students or activists within a building. Why did everything get out of hand at Columbia University and not on other campuses?

MOORE: Well, because I think this was coordinated nationally and Columbia seemed to be the location that was catching the public in the press' eye. So it had to be the place where the -- where the stand was made. It had to be the Alamo. It had to be the one where the big protest was because that's where the press was.

So I expected to, to, to make their stand at Columbia. And you're absolutely right. The beauty of America is that we can say things, we can protest, we can do this publicly, even when it's offensive language.

But you can't trespass and keep people from being able to go to class and going to their graduations.

We draw a line between that and, you know, civil, civil control.

But I think what we saw here was the fact that there was a coordinated effort nationwide. It wasn't a coincidence that everybody seemed to be camping on the lawns where the graduations were going to take place.

But Columbia was -- was the touch point. Columbia was where it started. And Columbia, I think, is where it's going to have to end.

CHURCH: And dozens of protesters have been arrested at Columbia University. So what all has been learned from this for that campus and for all the other campuses? Because it's probably not the end of this round of protests.

MOORE: No, no, it certainly isn't. And I think we'll know what they learned when we find out what the punishment is. There is freedom of speech, but if you are occupying a campus building and doing damage to it, burglarizing it, there's going to be potential educational problems because you are a guest at that university, you do not own the university, and you could lose scholarships, you could lose your, your right to be there.

So Columbia is not, Columbia is not going to take the disciplinary hearings lightly, and there will be serious hearings on this.

And whether they push for suspension or expulsion, depending on the acts, is going to tell a lot about how they want to go forward with this, how they want the next round of protests. See, it's not just this subject even, it could be a round of anti-nuclear protesters the next time. And so they have to draw a line in the sand, and do they want to draw a big line or a small line?

CHURCH: Steve Moore, I appreciate you joining us. Thank you.

MOORE: Thank you.

[03:50:53]

CHURCH: All right, let's bring up those live pictures again from the campus of UCLA, where there have been reports of protests turning violent this evening, with clashes between competing groups around the encampment base of pro-Palestinian protesters. And, you know, we have to make the point it's 12:49 in the morning there in Los Angeles, and 3:49 here on the Eastern Seaboard. So at this stage, we are not seeing any police presence. But we are continuing to monitor these pictures from above and on the ground there.

And we will bring you more details as we get them into us.

I'll be back in just a moment.

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CHURCH: Let's return to our breaking news and these live pictures from the campus of UCLA, where there have been reports of protests turning violent this evening, clashes between competing groups around that encampment base of pro-Palestinian protesters.

[03:55:06]

And we reported last weekend on dueling protests between competing demonstrators that turned violent then. Now, this happening overnight as L.A. approaches one in the morning, no evidence of any police presence at this time. But we will, of course, continue to monitor this scene and bring you more details as they come into us. So looking there at aerial shots, and also those from the ground, we will continue to watch this.

And I want to thank you at this juncture for joining me. I'm Rosemary Church. But CNN NEWSROOM continues next, with our Max Foster.

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