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CNN International: Protests on UCLA Campus Turn Violent; Police: Columbia University Property Cleared, Dozens Arrested. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired May 01, 2024 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a warm welcome to our viewers joining us around the world. I'm Max Foster. It is the 1st of May, 9 a.m. here in London, 1 a.m. in Los Angeles, where protests on the campus of UCLA are turning violent, as you can see. According to local media, things came to a head about two hours ago when pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli protesters got into a confrontation. KABC reports fireworks were thrown inside the pro-Palestinian encampment. Campus police say they're responding to the incident.

Of course, college campuses across the U.S. have been swept with protests over the last several weeks, but we haven't seen this level of violence up until now. Demonstrators demanding an end to the war in Gaza and for their universities to divest from Israel as well. We're trying to get a proper sense of what's happening on the ground.

There are clearly clashes between protesters and other groups, but it's a chaotic situation, so we're trying to define exactly who's clashing. And as you can see, we're not seeing a lot of police there, so these aren't clashes with the police from what we can see. It's a fast-developing situation.

Tensions just running extremely high, as they have been on other campuses, particularly at Columbia in New York. But this feels like it's taking a different turn. The big test, of course, for authorities, for the police, this is a state university, is to figure out how to respond.

We did see in Columbia, you know, police dressed in protective gear going in, not necessarily heavy-handed, but a very clear response to clear protesters out of one of the buildings there. This is a different university, a different part of the country, and a different protest, so the police will be trying to work out exactly how to deal with this, because when things turn violent, of course, people need to be protected.

News cameras rolling on that campus, but also at Columbia University, as police moved in, as I say, a few hours ago, and pro-Palestinian protesters there were evicted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) POLICE: Move back. Move back. Move back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're going to keep on doing that. They're going to keep on pushing us out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: More than 100 demonstrators were arrested on Tuesday, mostly at Columbia, but some also from nearby City College. Police were able to empty out one of the main buildings at Columbia that had been seized by protesters for nearly a day. Officers entered Hamilton Hall from a second-story window using an elevated ramp.

Very dramatic scenes there. Inside, they found the doors barricaded with vending machines. Chairs and tables and windows were covered with newspaper.

Police used flashbangs to clear the building. No reports of injuries. Any students who were inside are now facing expulsion. That's the decision for this private college.

Authorities say the encampments that were once removed, only to return, are going away now for good this time. So there will be a big presence there as that is enforced. Police have been asked to stick around until at least May the 17th, two days after the school's graduation ceremonies.

Earlier, a former faculty member, who's now a professor at a nearby law school, spoke about how that'll affect the mood on campus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXIS HOAG-FORDJOUR, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF LAW, BROOKLYN LAW SCHOOL: I don't think it's going to be a comfortable place to be for students. I don't think it's going to be a comfortable place for families to come. It's not, you know, for graduation and celebration.

The climate is going to be chilled. It's going to be a different place to be at. And really what Columbia has done in bringing in the NYPD is to overwhelm the student population with just the sheer presence and numbers of force.

Just being there is going to make a difference. I can imagine that students will still demonstrate in whatever way that they can. They feel very strongly about Columbia divesting from supporting what's going on in Gaza.

And so I don't imagine that that will end. It might look a little different, but I think we're still going to see students demonstrating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Soon as Miguel Marquez was on the scene as the police arrived and began arresting demonstrators. Here's his report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So New York police officers moved in in the hundreds into Columbia University.

[04:05:00]

They were they were not in full tactical gear, but they did have helmets and batons. And they moved in on this street. This is 114th Street in Amsterdam right here. They moved in in very large numbers onto the campus through a single gate on 114th Street.

You can still see one bus down there. That bus is taking whoever is left to arrest. We saw dozens of people arrested that were brought out through a separate gate here in 114. But the hall that had been taken over by students, Hamilton Hall, is just up the Amsterdam Avenue here.

Police were able to get into it using a bearcats. They were lifted up to the second floor. They used flashbang grenades to sort of distract whoever was inside Hamilton Hall. And then they were able to get in.

They said that the individuals in there had barricaded the doors with everything from chairs and tables to soda machines. And there weren't many people in there.

Police now say it is done. That everybody that was on the encampment for the last two weeks has been moved out or arrested. That everybody that was in the hall has been either moved out or arrested.

And that the entire campus, there is nobody on the Columbia campus that shouldn't be there at this point, say New York police officers. The Columbia University has also asked the NYPD to keep a presence on the university through May 17th. The commencement is on May 15th.

So it is clear that Columbia doesn't want to have a repeat of what happened a couple of weeks ago when they cleared the campus once and the encampment reestablished itself. This time they want to get back to the business of being a university. Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Throughout this ordeal, we have been getting updates from a Columbia undergraduate student, John Towfighi, who is also a freelancer for CNN. He says it is believed many of the protesters who breached Hamilton Hall weren't students.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN TOWFIGHI, UNDERGRADUATE STUDENT AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: The NYPD say that they think about half of the protesters occupying Hamilton Hall were non-affiliates, what they're calling outside agitators. Since the arrest took place, and there were nearly 100 people arrested at Columbia, there has not been an official disclosure of how many students there were and how many outside people there were. People are going back and forth on this question.

Video has circulated on social media of people climbing into windows on Columbia's campus last night when people occupied Hamilton. However, there has been an official university policy restricting access to campus to only Columbia affiliates. So technically, any outside agitators would have had to disobey university policy and sneak by the university-sanctioned public safety.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Meanwhile, CNN law enforcement contributor and retired FBI supervisory special agent Steve Moore says occupying buildings like this is against the law. Here's what he told my colleague Rosemary Church earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: They have a right to protest, but they don't have a right to trespass and take over buildings. What they were saying was not against the law. Where they were, that was against the law.

It comes down to when does the university cease to be a university? When does it stop teaching students? When does it stop functioning?

At that point, they've essentially killed the university, at least temporarily. And so it comes down to how the university wants to handle it, how the government wants to handle it. I was surprised that they came in so quickly.

I'm not disappointed they came in so quickly, but usually there's some, as you say, there's some risk to that. And I think part of it might have been, Rosemary, that they had information, according to the chief of police and the mayor, that outside organizations were teaching them how to resist. And so once you occupy a location, you do things like run piano wire and guitar string across openings of door openings and things like that to where police can't move from room to room to room.

And they put booby traps in. And I think the police probably thought we're dealing with groups who might be doing that kind of thing. And it takes time for that type of -- those type of obstacles to be in place.

So they might have been thinking we can do it tonight and it's going to be 100 times easier than doing it a week from tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: That's the situation in New York. Let's look at the situation in L.A. The UCLA campus dueling protests between pro-Israeli and pro- Palestinian groups turned violent just a few hours ago.

[04:10:00]

We've seen clashes between demonstrators on camps with people throwing scooters, setting off fireworks inside the encampments.

Campus police say they're responding to the situation. UCLA is one of many U.S. colleges and universities seeing these protests grow over the war in Gaza. But this is the first really violent turn that we've seen.

So you had the pro-Palestinian encampment and protests. Then you saw them being surrounded by counter protests, many of whom clearly support Israel from some of the, you know, signs and flags that we've been seeing.

And these are the sorts of scenes playing out overnight in L.A. right now. It's about ten past one. These are live images.

A really difficult situation. We don't see police there in the same way that we have been in New York. Of course, they're aware of what's going on, but they're considering clearly quite how they're going to respond to this.

But as it turns violent, people will need to be protected and they will be considering how to handle that. Also, the security forces for the university itself. But tensions clearly rising and the morning is very young and we'll have to wait to see how this plays out.

But these are worrying scenes and it feels like an escalation in the tension that we've seen across university campuses in the United States. We did see the police arrive at Columbia University in protective gear, a very big show of force. We're not seeing that in L.A. at present, but we'll keep these live pictures going for you and try to figure out what's going on for you, because that's what we're relying on right now. So we have the cameras above from the helicopters and there's also some on the ground as well. We'll be back in just a moment.

[04:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Breaking news out of L.A., clashes at the UCLA campus. According to local media, the skirmishes erupted during dueling demonstrations between pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli protesters. We're hearing fireworks.

These are the images you've got right now. There's a really sort of high sense of tension. Just before the break, we saw someone going forward to one of the protest groups and grabbing the barrier. Really tense situation.

The L.A. Times reports the university had declared the pro-Palestinian encampment unlawful and said students who didn't leave risk suspension or expulsion. The Times also saying that counter-protesters tried to pull down the barricades around the encampment. This is happening right now in the heart of L.A., the United States' second largest metro area.

We're going to speak to Paula Hancocks now, who's been reporting, of course, on the Middle East crisis, the tension between Palestinians and Israelis for some time now. And Paula, we're seeing this now transpose, or the tension at least, go to America. We've seen it build up, of course, across campuses in America. But this is the first time we're really seeing violence flare up.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Max, and this really speaks to the intense emotions that are being felt not just in America but around the world when it comes to what is happening at the moment in Gaza. Now, the protesters have been calling for the end of that war in Gaza. They've been calling for divestment of funds of anyone who is selling arms, for example, to Israel or involved in any companies that could be seen as supporting this war.

And this is really bubbling over now, this particular protest here in UCLA, the pictures we're looking at. It's been a couple of hours that we have seen this intensification and violence spilling out. It's not just chanting now, it's not just anger, it's not just passions, but those passions are now spilling over into physical action.

We have been seeing attempts to pull down some of those barricades, to pull down some of the encampments of the protesters themselves. And interestingly, Max, we haven't seen a police presence here over the last couple of hours.

Now, I did just a minute ago see an image of a police car arriving. We don't know if they are now going to intervene. But certainly there hasn't been an intense police presence, despite this going on for one or two hours, this protest.

But there is intense feeling among these students, and it really has been bubbling over. When you look at what is happening in Gaza, when you look at the death toll, you look at the desperate humanitarian crisis that is ongoing and the fact that still not enough humanitarian aid is getting into the Palestinian civilians who desperately need food, water, shelter and protection, of course.

So this is really what we are seeing now, these feelings of passion bubbling over into what appears to be violence between the two separate camps. You have the pro-Palestinian camp and the pro-Israeli camp here on the UCLA campus -- Max.

FOSTER: What we are seeing now, Paula, and just, you know, these are quite dangerous optics, aren't they? You have got the pro-Palestinian camp there on the right, surrounded by the barriers. Then you have got pro-Israeli protesters pulling at the barrier, effectively trying to evict them, because this is what the university has called for.

But the optics of that and the microcosm that it sort of shines a light on is worrying, isn't it, in terms of tension?

HANCOCKS: I mean, it is worrying, and it's surprising that we are not seeing any campus guards, we are not seeing campus security, we are not seeing police getting involved in this. This kind of altercation.

[04:20:00]

I mean, it's twenty past one in the morning there is not something that you want to see. Obviously, tensions and passions are inflamed on both sides, both feeling aggrieved, both feeling angry about what has been happening from October 7th and also with the war in Gaza. But the very fact that there does not seem to be an intermediary here does appear concerning at this point.

Now, it is very difficult to see, as you can imagine, it is quite -- it's dark there. You can see there is an awful lot of lights being shone on the area itself, some strobe lighting as well. But, I mean, obviously the hope is that there will be some kind of security arriving at some point, because at this point this is just two camps who are diametrically opposed when it comes to the war in Gaza, when it comes to October 7th attacks by Hamas on Israel as well.

They are diametrically opposed and some of those frustrations, tensions and passion are now spilling over into physical altercations. And you can see flags being flown there on the right-hand side as well. And it would appear to be chanting with arms in the air as well.

It is obviously a concerning situation, unclear what has happened there, but you can see a number of the protesters running away from something that has happened in the center there. So, I mean, obviously the question is where is security at this point?

FOSTER: Yes, and that's what a lot of viewers will be thinking as well, because when tensions flare like this, even if there isn't an intentional act of violence, people, you know, sounds and moments can confuse people, causes a stampede, and then that's where a lot of the, you know, concern will be as well, that something could flare up or be misconstrued.

And we've got to remember as well, there's a bit of juxtaposition here, isn't there, to the protest that we had at Columbia University, which is a private university in New York. You had a huge amount of police turning up and making a huge show of force.

This is a public university, and you probably expect the police and the authorities to be more on hand. They could be on their way, but there's a -- they'll be aware that this is on TV, and they're probably concerned about how they're going to play this and what they're going to get caught up with themselves.

HANCOCKS: Yes, it's a good point. I mean, it's not necessarily always the best thing for police to storm into the middle of something, but when you see the images that we are seeing, we see protesters brandishing sticks, pulling down barricades, pulling down railings, direct confrontation between two sets of protesters. It does need some kind of mediation.

It needs to be calmed down in some respect. You can see projectiles being thrown there from inside the encampment to those who are trying to pull this encampment down. And it is a difficult situation.

We have heard, certainly in the Columbia University situation, that NYPD said that they believe there were outside agitators who had been involved. Now, we don't know to what extent that would be the case, but certainly there would also be a concern that these may not just be impassioned students of UCLA, that there could be others that have been able to get involved here and potentially able to stir things up to a greater degree. But this very direct confrontation with these two diametrically opposed points of view really do seem quite concerning in the early hours of the morning.

Now, it's very difficult to see. I can see there are some high- visibility jackets just on the right-hand side there. We don't know if that could be campus security. We don't know who that is at this point.

But there does appear as well to be an awful lot of people standing around watching. I mean, potentially the impact of violence is very localized and very small, but of course it does look dramatic when you're seeing it from a height there.

So it's difficult to get a concept of how widespread or how significant this is when you're just looking at one isolated spot.

[04:25:00]

FOSTER: Getting a sense of where UCLA and these protests sit within Los Angeles, of course a huge city, and we're seeing there people from the counter-protesters throwing into the encampment and also some things being thrown back. We also see that there's a -- when some of the counter-protesters go up and try and pull the barriers down, they're being sprayed with something.

And I'm seeing on the LA Times that they're using pepper spray to defend themselves, some of the people within the camp. So potentially dangerous in itself. But at the moment, there are these very isolated moments of violence, as you could describe it, but these are counter- protesters trying to pull down the barriers, which is off the back of the message from the university, was that this camp needs to end because it's no good for the university and it isn't helping anyone.

But they have effectively got this pro-Israeli group trying to get the barriers down and get this group broken up. And this is a worrying moment. And as Paula's been pointing out, we don't see any police there currently.

It's not to say they don't have observers there and they're not ready to go, but we haven't seen any evidence of it yet. We're getting very little information from any of the authorities at the university or indeed the police. So it's difficult for us to tell you anything apart from just talk through these pictures that we're seeing, Paula.

We've got one guy there who's really leading the charge, and he seems to be being forced back all the time when he's being sprayed, we presume, with pepper spray. The concern is, isn't it, Paula, that they decide to go in as a group harder and this is an encampment which is going to protect its position, it seems.

HANCOCKS: Absolutely. And if you do have a number who are more forceful than others, there is always that fear of mob mentality, that there could be more violence than would ordinarily be the case. Now there does appear to be, it seems, some photographers there who are taking photos, so potentially some media coverage on the ground at this point as well, but we're not hearing exactly what is happening.

You can see that individual is now speaking to the crowd, whether he's telling them to hold off, it's not clear. He, I don't think, was the one who was actually trying to pull down some of the barricades. So potentially you have someone there who's trying to defuse the situation.

But again, we simply don't know without being able to see and hear. And then again, you can see the spray being used to drive some of the protesters back as they're trying to hit those barricades with sticks. And it's not a good situation.

It's a very volatile situation. And again, you see that one individual in the middle potentially trying to defuse the situation, but we simply don't know.

FOSTER: LA Times saying UCLA has said the police have been called, but we don't see them responding, which is interesting in itself. We're going to keep an eye on these pictures for you. We'll keep coming back to them so you can monitor what's happening and whether or not there is going to be any way of dealing with it for the police. At the moment, they seem to be holding off. We'll be back in just a moment.

[04:30:00]