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CNN International: Clashes Erupt Between Rival Protest Groups on UCLA Campus. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired May 01, 2024 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news out of L.A. Clashes breaking out between rival protest groups on the UCLA campus. These are pictures from moments ago. According to the L.A. Times, the violence began hours after the school said a pro-Palestinian encampment, the one you can see there with the tents, is unlawful and that students taking part should face suspension or expulsion.

The Times reports that counterdemonstrators, you can see them in the foreground, arrived just before midnight local time and tried to pull down the barricades around the encampment. They're still trying to do that. We've seen people throwing scooters and setting off fireworks.

Campus police say they are responding to the situation, although we haven't seen it yet. UCLA is one of many U.S. colleges and universities seeing protests grow over what's happening in Gaza.

The mayor of Los Angeles has spoken to the chancellor of the university, according to her office. Also the police chief and the LAPD is responding immediately to Chancellor Block's request for support on campus. Some police have been seen arriving, but they're not here at the epicenter, really, of the tension, which feels pretty fraught right now. And the encampment on the right, protected by barriers.

The counter-protesters are trying to pull those barriers down, but they're being forced back by some sort of spray. We think it's pepper spray. That's what the LA Times has suggested.

With us now, Dylan Winward, an editor with the Daily Bruin at UCLA. Dylan, thank you for joining us. Can you explain what we're seeing in terms of these pictures?

DYLAN WINWARD, FEATURES AND STUDENT LIFE EDITOR, THE DAILY BRUIN: Yes, so we are aware that from 10:50 this evening, counter-protesters showed up outside of the encampment, aiming to disrupt it. There is nothing new we've seen since the encampment went up on Thursday that counter-protesters have tried to access the encampment and have tried to disrupt their sleep. We know as well that they set off fireworks and that they threw tear gas at the encampment.

[04:35:00]

And the encampment responded by holding up their barricades and throwing back canisters that had been thrown in.

FOSTER: Is it too simplistic to say it's a pro-Israeli counter- protest?

WINWARD: We know very little about the counter-protesters. Lots of them have shown up heavily masked or wearing balaclavas as well. We know that in recent evenings this week, many of the counter-protesters that have shown up overnight have showed up with Israeli flags and have promised to come back. But we also know that they were at various points chanting USA this evening as well. So we just don't know who they are.

FOSTER: But this is the first time you've seen it turned violent in this way.

WINWARD: Yes, there's been some pushing and shoving in past evenings. We know that paramedics were called, but it's the first time that we've seen anything like what we're seeing on the scale this evening. It's also the first time this evening that campus security, there are about 30 high security people on the site, have withdrawn from separating the two sides from each other and allowed campus barriers to be knocked down.

FOSTER: Why do you think they've done that?

WINWARD: So, what we're seeing is more violence than we've seen in any other evening. We've seen tear gas thrown, obviously, as well on the UCLA campus.

There's a complicated relationship with police. There's a very small campus police force. But historically, the LA City police need to be invited onto the campus to be allowed to come onto campus.

That might be one of the things that has been causing the delay this evening. We know now that UCLA has requested a wider police presence, but they had previously stated that they weren't going to do so proactively and were only going to do so in reaction to significant violence on campus.

FOSTER: Why do they have to be invited onto campus when it's a public university? Sorry, I might be getting too deep in the law, but I'm just wondering.

WINWARD: Yes, so the University of California actually has its own police force. That's actually a state police force. So there's the University of California police force that's got roughly 30 officers who usually patrol the campus.

They were called to the scene. They arrived at the scene today and they left very, very shortly afterwards. It was only one squad car with about four policemen.

So the reason that LAPD have to be invited in is because it's considered state rather than city land.

FOSTER: OK, so that has happened tonight, according to the mayor's office. You would have seen what happened at Columbia University yesterday. There was a very strong show of force, wasn't there, by the NYPD in protective gear. And it's pretty decisive. Do you expect to see a similar situation in L.A. or would it be handled slightly differently there from what you know about the police?

WINWARD: It's very difficult for us to say at the moment because we haven't had LAPD come and approach the encampment yet. All the statements we've had from the university have said that people inside the encampment would only be arrested if they were obstructing police or paramedics. However, the university earlier today threatened to arrest any outside actors who came to campus.

We believe that many of the counter protesters who are on campus now and who are throwing those fireworks aren't members of the university community as well. So that could feature into the police response.

FOSTER: But when violence erupts like what we're looking at right now and the tensions are clearly very high, surely the police need to be involved just to prevent, you know, some sort of -- you know, any sort of escalation. When situations are tense like this, they can blow up very easily, even if it's not intentional.

WINWARD: Yes. So we know that campus security have been requesting a police presence for hours now, nearly three hours, that is. A statement we got from inside the campus said that no police were on the scene and actually questioned why no police were on the scene as well.

FOSTER: It's a sensitive situation, isn't it? Because in broad terms, I know it's not entirely clear to you who the counter protesters are. Maybe they're outside groups, maybe they're chanting U.S. slogans, but also we're seeing pro-Israeli flags as well.

But, you know, there's an optic here, isn't there, that there's a pro- Palestinian group in an encampment that people are trying to evict. So just the optics here are going to have a very damaging and divisive effect.

WINWARD: Yes, I think that's definitely true. We've seen over the last couple of days that there have been competing protests and counter protests, some of which have been organized within the university community. From what we understand, the majority of the people inside the encampment are students and professors.

And it has been a divisive issue on campus as well. We expect that that will continue into the next couple of days, irrespective of what happens tonight.

[04:40:00]

FOSTER: How are you handling this as an editor? Because I'm assuming, you know, you'll be pro-freedom of speech. This is a university. There's a tradition of protests on campuses. It's part of democracy, isn't it? How do you balance that with the fact that many people not involved, many students not involved in these protests, are having their lives utterly disrupted and their educations?

WINWARD: Yes, well, it's been a difficult evening for us, actually, because one of our reporters was tear gassed on site this evening and had to be removed from the situation. We had to withdraw a number of our reporters because we thought that there was a serious danger to their safety. One of my colleagues as well was punched by protesters. We don't know from whom on Sunday morning.

Clashes that were, by the most part, peaceful as well. So it's been very, very difficult from a reporting perspective for us to be able to tell the news and break the news on campus as we'd normally want to do.

FOSTER: OK, Dylan Winward, we're going to come back to you when we hear some more. But thank you for your coverage and giving us some insight from near the scene there. We'll be following the pictures. We'll have some more live pictures for you coming up as well.

[04:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Breaking news out of LA. Clashes breaking out between rival protest groups on the UCLA campus. According to the LA Times, the violence began hours after the school said a pro-Palestinian encampment was unlawful and that students taking part could face suspension or expulsion if they don't de-camp.

The Times reports that counterdemonstrators arrived just before midnight local time and tried to pull down the barricades around the encampment. We've seen people throwing scooters, setting off fireworks. Campus police say they are responding to the situation.

UCLA is one of many U.S. colleges and universities, of course, seeing protests grow over the war in Gaza. But this is the first time we've seen violence on this level, I think it's safe to say.

Joining me now on the phone from the UCLA campus quad is independent journalist Joey Scott. And you are by the encampment, what can you see?

JOEY SCOTT, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST: Right now, the riot police have arrived and they are moving into the quad. And there are shouts of USA by the pro-Israel side.

FOSTER: You say pro-Israel side, but is it as simple as that? The chanting USA and some of these outside groups might have different interests, but would you say broadly as a pro-Israeli group that's trying to help de-camp the pro-Palestinian group?

SCOTT: Yes, I would say the bulk of these people here have been shouting pro-Israel chant. They have been blaring Israeli national anthem. The full makeup of the group, I don't know, but -- hold on, the riot police are kind of cuddling us here.

We're currently faced off with police. Apologies. FOSTER: No, you carry on. Stay safe. What's the atmosphere like?

SCOTT: I'm sorry?

FOSTER: What's the atmosphere like?

SCOTT: It is very tense. It has been tense all evening. Now that the police are here, there is a celebratory tone from the instigators of tonight's violence.

Yes, that seems to be the tone at the moment.

FOSTER: Is there an assumption then that the police will take down the barriers and remove the encampment?

SCOTT: That is unclear who they are going to target in this moment. Who are they going after? That said, most of the violence has come from one side.

FOSTER: The police took a long time to arrive, and that's because UCLA police, LAPD doesn't have jurisdiction normally, does it, over the campus, but they've been invited in. Do you feel it's taken them too long to get there?

SCOTT: I am surprised someone has not been more seriously injured or killed this evening with all the violence. It has been taking quite some time to get here. CHP, California Highway Patrol, is also here, along with LAPD assisting.

FOSTER: We've been seeing the barriers being torn down, or attempts to, by the counter-protesters, and they're being sprayed. Is that pepper spray that's being sprayed on them by the pro-Palestinian group?

SCOTT: Yes, so they are getting hit with both pepper spray and bear mace.

FOSTER: OK.

SCOTT: And we've been getting hit with backdrafts of that all evening.

FOSTER: So you're amongst the counter-protesters. What sort of language are they using with you? What do they want to happen here?

SCOTT: They want them to sweep the encampment. They believe they are here to sweep the encampment. And they believe the cops are here for, you know, they're on the same side.

FOSTER: So they want the police to allow them to sweep the encampment?

SCOTT: Yes, yes, that is the posture they have. I don't think they realize that they are also the targets in this riot squad here.

FOSTER: So presumably the riot squad, their priority will just be calming down tensions. Can you see how they're trying to do that? SCOTT: Right now they're just on a skirmish line. Tensions are still high. Counter-protesters are taking advantage of this moment and trying to take more fencing and barricades down.

[04:50:00]

FOSTER: Were you there when this turned violent tonight?

SCOTT: Yes, when I arrived they were playing crying baby. Air raid sirens, various other obnoxious noises at loud volume. And then the counter-protesters tore down all the fencing. And then after that, the security that was here, hired to protect people, left. They all fled.

FOSTER: How would you describe -- sorry.

SCOTT: And then it was just everyone for themselves and it's been that way until now.

FOSTER: How would you describe the feeling within the encampment? Are they defiant or are they scared?

SCOTT: I would say it's a mix of both. They've had fireworks thrown into their encampment. They've had laser pointers pointed in their eyes. They've had stuff thrown at them. They have stayed behind the barricades as much as possible. Yes, and they've just kind of stood their ground.

And at any point where they've had an opportunity, they've moved the encampment further to push the counter-protesters off their hands.

FOSTER: When I look at these pictures, my concern is that if the counter-protesters get into the encampment, there's a lot of stuff there they can throw around. And also the pro-Palestinian group can throw around that could cause a lot of injury. A lot of potential weapons in there.

SCOTT: Yes, the counter-protesters have broken parts of the pallets that have been used on the barricade and have been using them as basically like that. They've been throwing them at people. Whatever the metal barricades that the counter-protesters tore down, they have thrown at the encampment. They have thrown at other people. Yes, anything that can be picked up and thrown has been thrown this evening.

FOSTER: Would you say, I mean, how -- obviously, there's a link with what's happening in the Middle East, but how much of this is about, you know, getting involved in that fight? And how much of it is just about local issues and, you know, those flaring up in this moment tonight?

SCOTT: You know, it's a really good question. Since the encampment, counter-protesters have been here just about every night. They held a rally, a counter-rally this weekend.

They still have their giant screen, LED screen up that counter- protesters do. And yes, this has been going on since this weekend of just back and forth.

FOSTER: And the university wants the encampment cleared, doesn't it? Because they made that clear, which is, you could argue, helped trigger this. Because that's when the counter-protesters came in and tried to help clear it.

SCOTT: Yes, that seems to be the inspiration. The UCLA put up warnings that the encampment is unlawful, among other issues. People took that as a sign of it being swept. So the encampment grew in size, and that also grew the counter-protesters to capitalize on this moment.

FOSTER: OK, Joey Scott, really appreciate your time. Thank you and stay safe.

We are obviously hearing there from Joey that the police have arrived in protective, if not riot gear. So that's good news in terms of tension, but we're now looking to see what their plan is, whether just to calm things down or indeed go ahead and do what the counter- protesters want them to do, which is to get rid of those tents. We'll be back in just a moment.

[04:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Back to our breaking news out of Los Angeles. Violent clashes between rival protest groups on the UCLA campus. According to the LA Times, the university had declared the pro-Palestinian encampment unlawful and said students who didn't leave risk suspension or expulsion.

Then just before midnight, counter-protesters arrived and tried to pull down the barricades around the encampment. An independent journalist just told us riot police are now on the scene but witnesses have said they were surprised by how long the skirmishes went on before police got involved. That journalist told us he's very surprised people weren't injured if not killed in that interim before the police arrived.

We're hearing that lumber, pepper spray and fireworks have all been used as weapons tonight. UCLA is one of many U.S. colleges and universities seeing protests grow over the war in Gaza. We're going to keep following this for you and particularly monitor the police response tonight.

Thank you for joining me here on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Max Foster in London. CNN "THIS MORNING" is up after the break.

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