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Campus Unrest; Florida Abortion Ban. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired May 01, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:44]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're following breaking news this morning, violence erupting between protesters and law enforcement at colleges and universities across the country. CNN correspondents are live on the scene. In Florida, a six week abortion ban just took effect today. The strict new law could have the biggest impact on abortion access in the US since Roe was overturned. And the Biden administration is moving to reclassify marijuana as a less dangerous drug. So, what has actually changed and what happens next?

Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington and you're in the CNN Newsroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

BLITZER: Now, we begin this hour with breaking news, the struggle to control the ongoing chaos that college campuses across the United States. This was the scene just a little while ago in Madison, Wisconsin, as police and protesters clashed at the University of Wisconsin. Watch this.

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(INAUDIBLE)

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BLITZER: According to the student newspaper, campus police gave protesters some 15 minutes to remove their tents. It's not clear if any arrests have been made. I want to bring in our CNN Security Correspondent Josh Campbell. He's in Los Angeles on the campus of UCLA where protesters and counter protesters actually clashed overnight, and the LAPD was called in.

Josh, we've seen a shift in the efforts by colleges over the last 24 hours around the country trying to regain control of their campuses by calling in the police. What are you seeing as this effort moves forward?

I don't know if Josh is hearing these. Josh's --

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I have audio issues. I didn't hear your question there. But obviously we've been talking about these protests that have been happening particularly -- particular this morning, this incident at the University of Wisconsin in Madison where you saw authorities move in start disassembling one of the many protest camps that we've seen at various universities across the United States.

Police moving in. You saw some confrontations with protesters there on this video where they were locking arms, pushing against police, the police then pushing against them. This is all part of an escalation that we've seen at various campuses, different universities handling these protests very differently. But, of course, we saw recently at the University of Texas at Austin, for example, police there moving in as this small camp was set up, authorities not wanting that to then grow to a larger encampment.

And of course overnight at Columbia University after days. We saw police eventually move in there. That ending, thankfully, quite peacefully. And, of course, where we are right now here at UCLA, you see a large police presence here on standby and our colleague. Stephanie Elam is going to talk about what happened here overnight. But we're seeing a lot more forceful posture from law enforcement. Of course, it's yet to be seen what happens at this university with this encampment, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Josh, I want you to stand by for us. We're going to get back to you in a few moments. But right now, I want to bring in Lindsay Dubin. She's a student at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. Lindsay, thanks very much for joining us.

You were there, you saw what was going on. Tell us what you saw.

LINDSAY DUBIN, STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON (via phone): Yes. So I received a text this morning that the police were moving in to remove the encampment, and I quickly got out of bed and went to go watch what was happening. And at first, you know, it was people braiding the police with insults, but it hadn't gotten too crazy yet. But as you know, more tents were removed and a couple of people were detained. Things got a little bit more violent.

And yes, I started to move back and it's heartbreaking, really is.

BLITZER: It certainly is. What's the situation, Lindsay, like there now?

[11:05:06]

DUBIN: Well, I went back to my apartment but the police have gone as far as I can tell, they left. And there's 1/10 still there, and a bunch of protesters and the protest goes on.

BLITZER: How long was the protest encampment at the University of Wisconsin in Madison in place?

DUBIN: It's been two days.

BLITZER: And how do you think the university has handled this situation? DUBIN: I don't think there's really a right way to go about this. Even if you consider these laws unjust, MLK said civil disobedience requires that the individuals who break the laws willingly accept the consequences of doing so. I mean, we're in college now, we're adults, and there are policies and laws in place to protect students. And when you break those laws, you have to accept the consequences.

And so, I believe the university is well within their rights to try to break up the encampment. And, you know, it has gotten threatening to students. A protester did a Hail Hitler sign to a friend of mine yesterday. So it's not just, you know, peaceful kumbaya as people might think, there's a lot more to it.

BLITZER: Do these protesters, Lindsay, understand fully the consequences of what they're doing? They could face either suspension from the university or even expulsion from the University, not allowed to come back. And some of them could even face arrest, which could affect their education and their careers down the road. Do they appreciate the enormity of what's going on?

DUBIN: I don't think they appreciate the enormity. However, they do know that they are breaking university policy and law because before the encampment went up, university, which I totally commend them for, sends out an email with links to campus policies. And they specifically said that setting up encampments was against the law and university pub policy, and that students who tried to set up encampments would face the consequences.

And the university sent this email out well before, I want to say about a day or so before the encampment went up. So these students are aware that they are breaking the rules.

BLITZER: All right. Lindsay Dubin, stay safe over there. We'll be in touch with you. Thank you very much for joining us.

Right now I want to bring in CNN Stephanie Elam. She's on the campus of UCLA that's in Los Angeles. Stephanie, it was a violent night there, pretty shocking. Where do things stand now?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Much calmer at this time of day, Wolf. And I just want to show you, though, you can still see what's left over of what happened last night, starting closer to midnight here on the campus. I can tell you, I was here all day yesterday and it was fairly calm. We saw a few people yelling over the barricades but that's it.

But you see, there's this barricade here, then there's this walkway, and there's that barricade. What the video we saw from last night shows it looks like people from this side were pulling on the barricades. They were throwing things into the Palestinian -- pro- Palestinian camp on that side there. We did see some sort of liquid being shot back out from that side there. But it did seem like they were trying to destroy employ the plywood from this side.

There were security that was in this center area that was trying to put the barricades back in place. But this is where a lot of the students had questions about where was law enforcement. In fact, the Daily Bruin, the school newspaper, the student journalists, writing today that they think UCLA is complicit.

Because even though they said yesterday, the chancellor said that there would be more security on campus, this went on for a while on campus before law enforcement arrived. And we did see that Mayor Karen Bass put out a statement calling it an abhorrent what she was seeing here on campus. And then we saw law enforcement starting to make their way into campus after 1:00 am.

And then in that time, there were still some people out here protesting. We watched them put up a wall, push people out, much calmer now but still unclear, Wolf, what this means going forward today as far as this encampment, which obviously is still here.

BLITZER: We'll be watching it together with you, Stephanie. Thank you very much.

I want to go back to see this Josh Campbell. He's also out there at UCLA for us. Tell us more, Josh, about the law enforcement response at UCLA.

CAMPBELL: Well, it's a lot quieter here right now, Wolf, obviously than we saw overnight with some of those stunning images of what was taking place just behind me at this encampment. You saw fireworks, you saw, obviously, those clashes.

This is the copy today of the Daily Bruin. You see this encampment and fireworks going off, unclear if there were any injuries. It's worth pointing out as our colleague Elizabeth Joseph noted that so much of the great information we're getting is from student journalists. Some of these newspapers have been in business for over 100 years, doing critical reporting to clued about what law enforcement is doing what they're not doing.

[11:10:02]

Right now you can see it's just kind of a wait and see approach right now. The university president has deemed this encampment to be "unlawful." It's unclear if there will be simply academic penalties or if authorities will actually go in. But as we pan over, you can see multiple agencies here from the California Highway Patrol, the UCLA Police Department, Los Angeles Police Department, the sheriff, a line of cars here.

Again, this is much different than what happened at -- that's kicked off overnight, and that's really one of the criticisms that we've been hearing. There were private security guards that were here on site. But you didn't see this robust law enforcement posture, which is obviously worth noting, particularly what we've seen in other places across the country.

(Inaudible) you can see behind me, this is the encampment right now. This is where Stephanie was just a moment ago. I was talking to some of the people in there just a short time ago. They said there's no plan that they have right now to actually leave. This is a similar posture we've seen at these encampments across the country.

Of course, the big question, we're waiting to see what will law enforcement here do? Will they actually go in and clear that encampment? Or will this just continue to be a negotiation of sorts? We'll have to wait and see, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Josh Campbell at UCLA for us, Josh, thank you very much.

Still ahead, much more on all the campus unrest across the United States. Other news were following as well. The Vice President Kamala Harris heads to Florida, as women there now face what's being described as a near total ban on abortions. Meanwhile, today in Arizona, lawmakers will vote on repealing the Civil War era abortion ban there. We're going to bring you all the late breaking developments.

Plus, a truly historic shift from the Biden administration to ease restrictions on marijuana here in the United States. Stay with us, you're in the CNN Newsroom.

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[11:16:19]

BLITZER: Welcome back. We're following the breaking news on the escalating campus protests across the United States right now in New York. There's a sense of calm at Columbia University. It's a stark contrast to last night when roughly 300 people on the campus were arrested. And they were also arrested at a nearby city college, CCNY, City College of New York.

New York's mayor claims outside actors are trying to indoctrinate young people into violence.

CNN Correspondent Gabe Cohen is joining us live from Columbia University right now. Gabe, first of all, what can you tell us about the situation there? What's the latest?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf. As you noted, it's quiet this morning. This is one of the entrances here to this very restricted campus right now. If you look through the gates, you can see there are some people walking around the campus right now, but it is only students who work or who live here, I should say. And then, a central faculty, really just people who need to be here. We've seen plenty of people get turned away, including students who have been confused about who's allowed on campus and who is not.

We're also seeing a lot of police officers, so many police officers from NYPD who are here. We know that the school has asked for the NYPD to keep officers here on the campus until May 17th, after graduation. So we expect this is just the beginning and we're going to continue to see several officers around the entrances, and even on campus here at Columbia.

This building behind me, this is Hamilton Hall. This was the center of that dramatic police action last night. Officers making their way into this building through a second floor window, they were in riot gear and helmets. And they ended up arresting dozens of people inside the building as well as many outside in that encampment, more than 200 in all.

I spoke to a student, a freshman here who was coming off the campus trying to get food for the first time in 12 hours because of the lockdown here last night, who talked about the mood on campus as all of that was playing out in the late hours of the night. He and his fellow students were in their dorms watching what was unfolding. Take a listen, this is what he told me.

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BENSON, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Some people were really like scared about the police presence and some people are happy that the police came in and like swept the encampment and everything. But I feel like regardless of everyone's views like in the building yesterday, we all just wanted to make sure like we were all OK.

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COHEN: And, Wolf, I also interviewed last hour a student journalist here who was very concerned that the NYPD ended up moving all of the student press who were here on campus just before arresting all of those protesters. They moved them to a place where they couldn't get a view of what was unfolding.

He essentially said there would be a lot more evidence of whether or not NYPD followed protocols because there have been a lot of concerning videos that have come out at this point. And really all of the visuals, the photos and videos that we have seen have either come from the NYPD or the protesters themselves, media had no real view of what was unfolding yesterday.

You also mentioned the idea of those outside agitators, who the mayor and other officials in New York said were a driving force in that protest. We should learn more about how many of those people arrested were affiliated with Columbia that may be in the hours and days ahead as so many of them get arraigned and appear in court.

BLITZER: How many were actually students or professors at Columbia University. How many were the mayor of New York has described them as outside agitators. And you say we'll get more details on that that's coming up?

[11:20:06]

COHEN: Yes. We expect as they go to court, we're going to learn a lot more about who those individuals are. And if those city officials are right, that more than half of the people involved in this protest are not affiliated with Columbia. We don't have any way to verify that up till now.

BLITZER: All right. Gabe Cohen in New York at Columbia University will stay in close touch with you. Thank you very much. We're going to continue to monitor all the campus unrest across the country, but there's other important news that's happening today as well. In Arizona's capitol, for example, lawmakers are set to vote on repealing the state's Civil War era abortion ban. If the measure succeeds, Arizona's 15 week restriction will continue to be law in that state.

But officials warn that the 1864 ban could still be enforceable at least for a short while. Non-emergency bills passed in Arizona don't take effect until 90 days after the legislature adjourns. The state's Democratic governor is expected to sign the repeal if, if it goes through.

Elsewhere in Florida, for example, that states six week abortion ban takes effect today. That's before many women even know they are pregnant. Last year, one in every three abortions in the in the south happened in Florida. Now the state has one of the strictest abortion laws in the nation.

CNN Medical Correspondent Meg Tirrell is joining us from Jacksonville. Right now, Meg, you're at a clinic there in Florida before the law changed, what was it like?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf. Here at this clinic called a Woman's Choice in Jacksonville, we spoke with a patient who was there to obtain a medication abortion. She is a mother of two children already and she said she would prefer to only be identified by her first name, Candace, and not to have her face on camera for privacy reasons. But here's what she told us about the impact of the ban on her and others like her.

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CANDACE, FLORIDA ABORTION CLINIC PATIENT: I've experienced traumatic births, and went on to have two healthy children, but it was very touch and go is high risk. And now being over that 35 mark, it's even more high risk for me to get pregnant.

So it's very scary that these laws are being put into place, you know, and my life matters. And it's just the tough thing to have to go through. I don't think anybody plans to do something like this until it happens to them, and they're faced with that decision.

TIRRELL: Did you ever expect, there would be a situation like this where things change so dramatically from one day to the next.

CANDACE: No, I wasn't really aware that it was so soon that this law was going into fate, you know, into effect on May first. I was kind of blown away, it's like, oh, you know? I'm -- all for women's rights, and I usually stay on top of it but I just didn't realize it was happening that soon. And I was pretty devastated to hear you know, that it was happening this fast.

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BLITZER: And well this doesn't just affect people here in Florida, but this has been an important access point for abortion across the south. Last year, as many as 8,000 people traveled to Florida to obtain abortions, now the closest states will be North Carolina, which has a 12 week ban or Virginia farther north than that, beyond 12 weeks. Wolf?

BLITZER: Meg Tirrell, our medical correspondent in Jacksonville. Thank you very much.

Vice President Kamala Harris, by the way, we'll be in Jacksonville later today to talk about reproductive rights and what's at stake in the November election, as part of the Biden campaigns push to blame Donald Trump for these restrictive bans. This morning, the President released a video railing against Trump's comments to Time Magazine on abortion. Watch this.

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JOE BIDEN (R), PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: Folks here at Donald Trump just said Time Magazine, it's shocking after bragging about overturning roe and saying women should be punished for access to reproductive health care. He said states should be able to prosecute women.

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BLITZER: Joining us now, Kelly Flynn. She's the President and CEO of a Woman's Choice. It's an independent abortion clinic in with locations in Florida, North Carolina and Virginia. Kelly, thank you very much for joining us.

First of all, how is your organization prepared for the implementation of this six week abortion ban in Florida?

KELLY FLYNN, PRESIDENT/CEO: Thank you all for having me. We've been preparing for this for quite some time, but mostly within the last month once the opinion came down. You know, even though it happened, it went into effect today. There's really no right way to prepare for this, to have to turn patients away, which we've already had to do today.

We've turned three patients away. That will have to travel thousands of miles to get their procedures done. So the staff are working hard to make sure that we can serve as many patients as possible. So it's just a matter of us triaging and making sure that we do the proper gestational sizing according to the Florida law.

[11:22:00]

BLITZER: So a lot of women don't even know they're pregnant at six weeks what happens after six weeks they discover the doctor tells the woman that the fetus is not viable, and unless there's an abortion, there could be major health complications for the mother. What happens then?

FLYNN: If there's no fetal tones, then the patient would have access to have an abortion or through miscarriage management. If a patient --- if a physician of course says that she's past six weeks. She is not eligible for an elective abortion. So if there are fetal tones and there is an abnormality, unfortunately, the patient will be required to carry her pregnancy to term.

BLITZER: Or the woman could go to a different state and have an abortion, is that right?

FLYNN: Yes, yes, yes. She would have to return that to either North Carolina or Virginia.

BLITZER: In that time magazine interview, as you know, Donald Trump was asked if he would be comfortable if states punish women for violating the state abortion bans. And he said, and I'm quoting him now, I'll put it up on the screen. "I don't have to be comfortable or uncomfortable. The states are going to make that decision. The states are going to have to be comfortable or uncomfortable, not me.

Kelly, what's your response to that?

FLYNN: It's unbelievable that that comment would even be made, obviously, with what we're experienced now, with the way that the states have enforced regulations on abortion. It's just very dangerous. And it's unfortunate that physicians that practice medicine here in Florida could possibly be penalized or criminalized for treating patients if there are any causes of abnormalities or anomalies.

BLITZER: So in Florida now, with this six week ban, are there exceptions for rape, incest or the life of the mother?

FLYNN: Possibly with the life of the mother, which would require two physician consents. The unfortunate part about this, Wolf, is that if a patient is raped or there's incest, she's going to have to produce papers from the police department, which will be very invasive and public for her to be able to produce these types of documents for her to come in to be seen as just absolutely unfair.

BLITZER: As you know Kelly before, today Florida was a key access point for abortions in the south. What options do pregnant women now have to get the care they need?

FLYNN: We will see as many patients as we can. We will help refer patients out of state we will help navigate their process. Offer them alternatives if they choose to parent. If they choose adoption, we'll help patients navigate through that as well. This is just unfortunate, because some patients are going to be forced into motherhood by this restriction.

BLITZER: Are there any plans to expand your organization, Kelly, to more states?

FLYNN: Not at the moment, Wolf, no. We currently have three locations in North Carolina and one in Virginia.

BLITZER: All right. Kelly Flynn will stay in close touch with you. Thank you very much for joining us. As protests escalate across America's college campuses, New York City's Mayor Eric Adams says outsiders were involved with the building occupation over at Columbia University in New York. Details of how the NYPD cleared it out and the university's call for health. Stay with us here in the CNN Newsroom.

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