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Demonstration Raise Legal Questions Around Free Speech; Israel Discussing Plans To Evacuate Civilians From Rafah; Former Trump Aide Hope Hicks Testifies In Day 11 Of Trial; Univ. Of Florida Holds Graduation After Arrests This Week; Russia Tries To Seize Ground Before More U.S. Aid Arrives; World First: Orangutan Treats Wound With Medicinal Plant. Aired 5-6a ET

Aired May 04, 2024 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[05:00:34]

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to all you watching us here in the United States, Canada and all around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is CNN Newsroom.

College commencements this weekend are taking place at many American universities in the wake of anti-war protests. We'll look at preparations as well as the debate over where exactly First Amendment protection ends.

Plus, Hope Hicks, longtime aide to Donald Trump takes the stand in his hush money trial, here how she describes the Trump White House response when the story's first emerged.

And a remarkable discovery about an orangutan using medical plants out there in the wild, I'll speak to the lead author of this new report about what we're learning from it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from Atlanta, this is CNN Newsroom with Kim Brunhuber.

BRUNHUBER: After weeks of escalating protests across the U.S. over the war in Gaza, with police going on to campuses to make mass arrests and rip apart encampments, universities are ramping up security measures as they prepare for graduation ceremonies, many beginning this weekend. A small group of pro-Palestinian protesters staged a walkout during graduation ceremonies at the University of Utah on Thursday. Otherwise, Commencement for the nearly 9,000 graduates appeared to go off without a hitch.

The University of Southern California announced it will hold a family graduate celebration on May 9th more than a week since canceling the main graduation ceremony over safety concerns. Columbia University has been the epicenter of the protests and its president says the past two weeks have been among the most difficult periods in the school's history and a new video message to students on Friday, she condemned some of the protesters for going too far. Here she is. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MINOUCHE SHAFIK, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT: University made a sincere and good offer, but it was not accepted. A group of protesters crossed a new line with the occupation of Hamilton Hall. It was a violent act that put our students at risk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: The White House is again responding to the college protests, Education Secretary Miguel Cardona sent a letter to college and university presidents on Friday condemning, quote, abhorrent incidents of anti-Semitism on campus. He also pointed to several federal resources that could help ease the tension. Jenn Sullivan takes a closer look at what universities are doing to prepare for graduation and how it's impacting students and faculty across the country.

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JENN SULLIVAN, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): College graduation ceremonies beginning this weekend in the days of unrest and escalating confrontations over the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza, the University of South Florida hosting their commencement ceremonies with heightened security. Days ahead of graduation, police seen here, throwing what appeared to be tear gas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have been given a lawful order to disperse.

SULLIVAN (voice-over): And arresting pro-Palestinian protesters who authority say unlawfully created an encampment on campus. Some students are outraged by the police's actions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They unleashed hundreds of riot police on us and incapacitate us with chemicals, tackle us to the ground.

SULLIVAN (voice-over): Indiana University also holding graduation this weekend, the important personal milestone reached against the backdrop of police barricades, guests entering through metal detectors. One staff member says she's boycotting the ceremony.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That I've decided that I'm not going to walk in graduation. I can't do it.

SULLIVAN (voice-over): Ohio State University hosting graduation Sunday. Many students glad to see their ceremonies continuing as planned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The students should be the priority out of the university.

SULLIVAN (voice-over): At Columbia University in New York, the epicenter of the pro-Palestinian movement on college campuses, the New York Police Department will be patrolling campus through at least May 17th, days after their graduation ceremonies. Colleges like University of Southern California though had canceled its main graduation altogether. It's a repeat of canceled ceremonies for the class of 2024, most of high school graduations were likely canceled in 2020 due to COVID.

I'm Jenn Sullivan reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: In the U.S. the First Amendment grants the right to free speech and peaceful assembly, but colleges are struggling on how to balance those rights with the need to protect students and property. There's no issue when protests are calm and students are just chanting slogans or waving signs but things get murkier when violence breaks out, encampments are built and students occupy building especially on private property. Here's President Joe Biden spoke out Thursday about finding the right balance between free speech and law and order. Here he is.

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[05:05:09]

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This isn't a moment for politics. It's a moment for clarity. So let me be clear, peaceful protests in America, violent protest is not protected, peaceful protest is. It's against the law when violence occurs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: And joining us now is Dr. Jack Hodgson Lecturer in American History at the University of Roehampton, London, thank you so much for being here with us. So for a free speech absolutist, the Constitution, I mean, it seems pretty clear, we'll bring up the graphic here. Of course, just highlight parts of it there. There shall be no law or abridging the freedom of speech or the right of the people peaceably to assemble. So that balance that the President just talked about, it's been so elusive, I guess, in this situation, because the legal precedents seem to create a bit of a whiplash going back and forth here, right?

JACK HODGSON, LECTURER IN AMERICAN HISTORY, UNIVERSITY OF ROEHAMPTON LONDON: Yes, thank you for having me. And I think we will probably all benefit from there being really clear lines here. But the situation is that it is a little bit more complicated. So public universities, obviously are bound by the First Amendment and its protections, but private institutions, such as Columbia, are not. When it comes to protecting free speech, the First Amendment is very clear that it protects all speech, no matter how grotesque or offensive or inaccurate.

The protection for the freedom of assembly does have that caveat that this assembly needs to be peaceful. But this creates a subjective judgment. So my idea of what constitutes a peaceful assembly might differ to yours, which might defer to a police officer, which might defer to a university administrator. So the lack of clarity comes from the fact that the law means that people have to make the subjective judgment of what counts as peaceful or not. And as you hinted out there, the case law on student speech has kind of swung around a bit like an ideological pendulum, as the Court has changed over the decades.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, that's exactly right. And the notion of time, place and manner is important, which makes encampments especially problematic, I guess, right?

HODGSON: Yes. So you know, the idea of whether a setting for example, counts as a peaceful protest, and many people would say that it does, but then when it starts to disrupt the normal functioning of an institution are appear intimidatory to others, many people would say that crosses the line, but then that creates the second question of what is the appropriate response if that line is crossed?

BRUNHUBER: Yes. And then when it comes to, you know, there have been accusations of anti-Semitic chants, and so on so forth, you said that free speech is guaranteed no matter how heinous. But there's also that notion of if it might incite violence, for instance, and you've given some examples of precedents, which kind of create even more confusion, right.

HODGSON: Yes, so, you know, free speech. And, you know, we've got to remember, private institutions aren't held to the same standard as publicly funded ones. But that, you know, there is case law that shows us that free speech is absolute. For example, George Mason University in the 1990s lost a case where that's after a discipline students for, you know, taking part in blackface, a fraternity event. That was considered protected expression under the First Amendment, so it doesn't matter how offensive or grotesque it is. But then, if that had seemed to incite violence, then that is a different question again.

BRUNHUBER: Yes. Now, speaking of violence, the police in several jurisdictions have been accused of heavy handed tactics against the protesters. But it's first worth noting that 54 years ago, I think, today, in fact, National Guardsmen shot and killed four students at an anti-war protest at Kent State University. Now, thankfully, we haven't seen anything remotely like that during these protests. So things have changed for the better, though, maybe not have gone far enough.

HODGSON: Yes, I think, you know, we are fortunate that where we are right now. We haven't seen an incident like Kent State. And I think nobody wants to see that. But I think, you know, we could be somewhat close to something like that happening. We know that a police officer discharged their firearm at Columbia. We should say that the NYPD service occurred accidentally.

But if somebody had been struck by that bullet, regardless of it being discharged accidentally, we could have been in a really such serious situation. So as we see colleges continue to call in the place, you know, where there needs to be a conscious effort to have avoid a situation like Penn State from happening again because there is nothing that, you know, will ensure that that could not happen again.

[05:10:07] BRUNHUBER: Yes. We're talking about the police response there. But there's one thing to, let's say break up protests and encampments, but then the punishment is another. There doesn't seem to be any consistency there either. Some students are charged, some not some will face academic sanction, maybe get expelled without any clear set of rules. So students may not know precisely what risk exactly they're taking.

HODGSON: Yes. And I think that is another big issue, especially if we could look at this and say that, you know, universities have fasten their disciplinary policies. But essentially having the police to come in and do that, you know, the police should be enforcing the law, but not the university's kind of on rules and regulations. And then, like you said, I think for what many protesters would probably want is consistency, and how these rules and how the law is applied. Whereas it already seems to be that there are very different outcomes for different students at different universities, which questions the fairness of the process.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, exactly. It leaves administrators, students, everybody in a tough spot here. A lot of confusion around this. We'll have to leave it there. But really appreciate your analysis. Dr. Jack Hodgson, thank you so much.

HODGSON: Thank you.

BRUNHUBER: All eyes are on Cairo right now for talks that could see hostages released in a ceasefire in Gaza if things go well. William Burns, the director of the CIA is already in the Egyptian capital and negotiators for Hamas expected to arrive later today. In fact, I think they have arrived. Hamas said it's sending its delegation with what they described as, quote, a positive spirit. An Israeli source tells CNN that mediators are speaking optimistically about the possibility of reaching a deal. But that same source says there's no sign that the group has changed its, quote, extreme positions.

And Israeli officials have briefed the White House about evacuating civilians from Rafah, that's according to two sources familiar with the talks. Israel says it's going ahead with plans for the ground offensive despite ceasefire and hostage talks. Israel also briefed humanitarian aid groups about evacuation plans according to a source familiar with the matter.

More than 1 million people have taken shelter in Rafah, a senior White House official tells CNN that Israel is setting up tents in southern Gaza away from Rafah as temporary shelters for civilians. But that official says there aren't enough tents for the number of people who are in Rafah. Meanwhile, the U.N. warns ground offensive could lead to quote, a slaughter of civilians.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENS LAERKE, SPOKESPERSON, U.N. OFFICE FOR COORDINATION OF HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS: The hundreds of thousands of people who are there, are would be at imminent risk of death if there is an assault. So we are looking at if this happens, both what the emergency relief coordinator has warned about could be a slaughter of civilians, but also at the same time, incredible blow to the humanitarian operation in the entire strip.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Daily life for some parents and volunteers in Gaza is a constant effort to protect children from the cruel violence of this conflict. CNN's Paula Hancocks has our report. We just want to warn you, it does contain graphic images that may be disturbing.

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PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A grandmother kisses her young grandchildren. Their small bodies share just one body bag. Four-year-old Kareem and his two-year-old sister, Mona, were killed on Tuesday by an Israeli airstrike. Their aunt says they are innocent. The babies went to bed last night and never woke up. Our hearts are broken forever. The doctors tried to save Mona, but could not. The children's parents were seriously injured in the same strike.

But Rafah was not home for these children. The grandmother says the family were displaced multiple times by the Israeli military, ending up in a tent on the southern border alongside hundreds of thousands of others who have nowhere else to go. Speaking of the Israeli military, she says this is all they want. This is their goal. The IDF referred to a previous statement when asked about this strike, saying they are operating to dismantle Hamas adding, quote, remaining in an active combat zone has inherent risks.

But despite months of threatening and major ground offensive in Rafah, the military has not told civilians to evacuate. For many here, there is no other option. At the start of this week in Rafah, 22 people were killed and in Israeli air strike including at least one infant and a toddler. A one-year-old killed is carried in their uncle's arms. He says this is who they are targeting. This is the safe Rafah they talk about.

[05:15:02]

It is the area the Israeli military has pushed civilians towards for months, an area well over 1 million Palestinians have barely surviving in food, water, shelter, a scarce disease is rising. But amid such misery, some adults are trying to remind children of their previous life. Just seven months ago, where they could play and learn safely.

This volunteer teacher says the children's mental state is distressed. They have no stability, they're distracted and they lose focus. So we work twice as hard to try and grab their attention and help them learn. Muhammad (ph) says he's happy he can play and study here. He says we lost our schools. We lost everything.

A tent school may not see much. But even this pretense of normality for these children will be lost if they're forced to move yet again.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, Abu Dhabi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: After the break, emotional testimony from a close former aide to Donald Trump. Hope Hicks on the stand on day 11 of Trump's hush money trial.

Plus, a weaker than expected, jobs report and rising unemployment, why investors are cheering the latest economic data. We'll explain that next.

And heavy rain has millions under flood watches here in the U.S. We'll have the latest on what's ahead.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Ongoing flooding across parts of South Texas and more rainfall on the way. Forecast right after this.

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[05:20:29]

BRUNHUBER: Hope Hicks, one of Donald Trump's closest aides was the star witness Friday in the former president's hush money trial. As CNN's Paula Reid reports Hicks was noticeably uncomfortable at times.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hope Hicks, one of Trump's former closest advisors took the stand in the New York hush money trial. I'm really nervous she revealed to the court as she began her testimony. She did have some warm words for her former boss praising his ability to message. He deserves the credit for the different messages that the campaign focused on in terms of the agenda that he put forth, but she never looked at him during most of her testimony, instead focusing directly on the lawyers asking her questions.

She testified at length about the impact of the Access Hollywood tape on the 2016 Trump campaign and how it was a crisis. She was the first person in the campaign to learn of the tape when she was contacted by a reporter. I was concerned, she said. She also witnessed Trump's reaction to the story asked if he was upset. She said, yes, yes, he was. She also told the jury about conversations she had with former Trump fixer, Michael Cohen and Trump when reports of Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels first surfaced in early November 2016, saying Trump wanted to make sure that there was a denial of any kind of relationship.

In a significant moment for prosecutors, Hicks revealed Trump communicated directly to her about the payment to Daniels. I only know about one instance sometime in the middle of February, Mr. Trump told me about it. And Trump was relieved that the story did not come out before the election. It was Mr. Trump's opinion that it was better to be dealing with it now and that it would have been bad to have had that story come out before the election.

Hicks appeared nervous throughout her appearance on the stand. And after that key exchange as defense attorneys were starting their cross examination, Hicks broke down in tears. Sorry about that, she said, as she returned to the stand. And when Trump's attorneys had the chance to question her, they got her to confirm that he was worried about his wife, Melania's, reaction to some of the stories. President Trump really values Mrs. Trump's opinion. And she doesn't weigh in all the time. But when she does, it's really meaningful to him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID (on camera): Now the big question is who will take the stand on Monday. Next week is actually the first full four-day week of court that we've had since this trial got underway. The prosecutors are keeping a tight lipped on who they plan to call next at when they plan to call the man at the center of this alleged conspiracy, Michael Cohen.

Paula Reid, CNN, New York.

BRUNHUBER: And CNN special coverage of the Trump hush money trial resumes on Monday at 9:00 a.m. in New York, that's 2:00 in the afternoon in London.

More than 11 million people are still under flood watches this weekend after days of torrential rain. Southeast Texas will get a break today. But heavy rain moves into other parts of the state. And there's a possible snowstorm heading to mountains at West CNN's Chad Myers has the latest.

MYERS: Kim, we're talking about southern Texas. It's really not that far north of Houston. And this is what it looks like here. Water everywhere, rivers out of their banks, in fact, 12 spots in major flood stage and more to come because the water is still going up, well in fact, it's still raining. But look at the things here we've seen in the past five days, purple that's between 10 and 15 inches of rain and in the past month or so, more than two feet in that many locations there.

More rainfall coming down right now, mainly in the hill country for tonight and into tomorrow, but still very heavy rainfall even at this hour. And then another batch of rainfall comes through even across I- 35, across Austin San Antonio, and then the hill country back here in the red. That's where the heaviest rainfall will likely be. Taking a look a little bit farther west than that, well, talking about tornadoes on Thursday, big time tornadoes in the sky on the ground, storm chasers catching amazing picture although there were some injuries, and certainly when you see debris like that, you know that that is something that humans put there that got hit.

Two hundred sixteen tornado reports over the past few days, so a very busy beginning of May and end of April. More severe weather for today especially West Texas again, same places that have seen most of the tornadoes. And they're fairly easy to spot because they're kind of all out there in fairly dry air compared to like the air in Mississippi when you get a tornado in Mississippi, you just can't see it. It's wrapped in rain. Well, the ones out there in West Texas, western Oklahoma, Kansas, you can see them a little bit. They're called low precipitations or at least lower precipitation tornadoes. [05:25:18]

Back out here, we're seeing some rain and snow for California. I know we're talking that it's spring in the plains but it is not spring here. It's going to be a one to two feet even higher elevations, we'll pick up three feet of snow in the Sierra on top of the snowpack that we had already this year. And look at the temperatures for today, Portland oldie 52, 54 for Seattle, where clearly it is spring in the east, big trough of low pressure in the west, keeping it cold and in spots, rainy and even snowy. Kim?

BRUNHUBER: Earliest, jobs report shows the U.S. economy may be cooling off the Bureau of Labor Statistics as employers added 175,000 jobs in April. That's considerably lower than what analysts expected. And a sharp drop from the more than 300,000 jobs gained in March. And employment also ticked up to 3.9 percent. President Biden counted the figures as a win touting the 15 million jobs created during his watch and the record 27 months of sub 4 percent unemployment rate. But he said there is, quote, more work to do and vowed to keep fighting for the middle class.

U.S. stocks soared in response to the softer than expected jobs report. The Dow and the S&P 500 each rose more than 1 percent and the NASDAQ gained 2 percent, leading economists say the April jobs report is in the Goldilocks range, creating enough jobs to keep the labor market humming along but slowing down enough that the Federal Reserve might begin cutting interest rates.

All right, still to come, ongoing protests are overshadowing a milestone weekend for many students graduating here in the U.S., how universities are handling the unrest, next.

Plus, Russia tries to make more gains in Ukraine before Kyiv gets a boost from a new batch of U.S. military aid.

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[05:30:35]

BRUNHUBER: Welcome back to all you watching us here in the United States, Canada and around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is CNN Newsroom.

I want to back to one of our top stories this morning, universities across the U.S. are ramping up security measures as they prepare for graduation ceremonies, many beginning this weekend, now comes after pro-Palestinian protests erupted on campuses in recent weeks with police making mass arrests and ripping apart encampments. U.S. Education Secretary Miguel Cardona sent a letter to college and university presidents on Friday condemning, quote, abhorrent incidents of anti-Semitism on campus. He also pointed to several federal resources that could help ease the tension.

More than 2,100 people have been arrested on U.S. college and university campuses since April 18th. And that includes the University of Florida which held its graduation ceremony on Friday. CNN's Rafael Romo is there.

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's been a very memorable day here at the University of Florida in Gainesville. Earlier today, the colleges of business and nursing had the recognition ceremonies. And now we are in the middle of the university wide commencement ceremony. This event together with others over the course of this weekend are expected to be attended by as many as 50,000 people according to a university spokesperson.

At least 10,500 people from 86 countries including of course, the United States, will be graduating. But it's been a tense week here, although probably not as much as what we have seen in places like Columbia University and UCLA. Nine pro-Palestine protesters were arrested Monday evening here on campus, a group that calls itself, UF Divestment Coalition, publish the list of very specific demands, including the disclosure of the university's investment portfolio for the last 10 years and divesting from what they called funding and partnering with weapons manufacturers and implicated in the war in Gaza.

They are also demanding that UF President Ben Sasse, publicly denounced what they call violence and discrimination against pro- Palestinian students, as well as a call for a ceasefire in Gaza. In response to the students accusations, a university spokesperson published a statement earlier this week, saying the following. This is not complicated. The University of Florida is not a daycare and we did not treat protesters like children. They knew the rules, they broke the rules and they will face the consequences.

The spokesperson also said that some of the protesters were outside agitators. But according to local media, at least seven of the nine protesters arrested Monday were current or recent U.S. students. This of course has become a political issue at the state level. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, a Republican, issued a warning Thursday to protesters. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): People try to pitch a tent at our universities. They're shown the door very quickly on that. We're not putting up with it. This is not New York. This is not California. You know, we're going to enforce appropriate standards of conduct and simply commandeering along with a tent and harassing other people, that does not pass, that does not fly in the state of Florida.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: Another U.S. spokesperson told CNN earlier that first, the school will defend the protesters right of free speech. But they also warned that if they break the university's time, place and manner rules, students stay suspension. And if there's any attempt to cause a disruption at commencement or any other events, campus police will address it accordingly.

Rafael Romo, CNN, Gainesville, Florida. BRUNHUBER: At least four people were injured after a new drone attack on Ukraine's second largest city. A local official says Ukraine shot down a number of Russian drones in Kharkiv overnight before debris crashed down and caused at least three fires. The injured reportedly includes a teenager and an 89-year-old woman. Ukraine's air force chief says Russia launched 13 drones and fired four missiles overnight. Russian troops have been on the move in recent weeks, capturing more territory than they have in nearly two years. And that's largely attributed to the absence of U.S. military aid, which was finally approved last week. As Claire Sebastian reports, Russia is fighting to seize all the ground that can before that aid arrives.

[05:35:07]

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's clear Russia is continuing to exploit the narrowing window before Ukraine gets fresh U.S. military aid. And most of the action taking place on the Eastern Front. This is a time lapse of the year so far. The data comes from Ukrainian monitoring group, Deep State. You can see over here, Avdiivka swallowed up in February. But what's happened since then, even more concerning for Ukraine. Over the past 10 weeks, Russia has taken more land than in any advance since July of 2022, a CNN analysis shows.

Now, there are no major towns as of yet but there are worrying signs up here in Ocheretyne where Russia now appears to have a foothold. This is a larger village, it's on higher ground. And in the past week, Ukraine's commander-in-chief admitting his army has had to withdraw west of several more villages, including right here in Berdychiv. Russia making it clear, it's ramping up.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SERGEI SHOIGU, RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): To support the necessary pace of our offensives and build up our troop composition for our further actions, we need to increase the volumes and quality of the weapons and military technology supplied to our troops.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEBASTIAN: Well, this is another key focus up here the town of Chasiv Yar just west of Bakhmut. Now for context, it's taken Russia a whole year to advance from the western edge of Bakhmut to the outskirts of Chasiv Yar. But here is why it matters. Chasiv Yar sit on higher ground. The red here indicates the highest elevation, giving it a direct fire line on to critical Ukrainian defensive strongholds. Kostyantynivka go down there through Druzhkivka up here. Just to the north is Kramatorsk, the regional capital and vital TrainLink.

So this small town, potentially decisive for Russia in its quest to occupy all of the Donetsk region. You can see in this video, just how intense the bombardment has been. CNN has geolocated this to the eastern edge of the town. And as the camera pans round, you can see some of the geography here. If we pause there, the canal is just here. That's a natural barrier. And here are the fortifications. Now, so far Ukraine says it's holding on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLEG KALASHNIKOV, SPOKESPERSON, UKRAINE'S 26TH ARTILLERY BRIGADE (through translator): They're trying to find a weak spot where they can breach our defense. They can't do more. The occupies will not be able to capture Chasiv Yar by May 9th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEBASTIAN: Well, May the 9th is of course, when Russia celebrates victory in World War II. And Ukraine is concerned Russia wants to make a strategic difference on the battlefield before that. And there are other pushes up here in the Kharkiv region and then down in the southeast where Ukraine was on the offensive last summer. Ukraine, though now solely focused on defense and likely facing more perilous days ahead.

Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: An orangutan caught the attention of scientists with some unexpected behavior. So just ahead, we talked to the lead author of a study about the Simian who self-treated an injury and why it's prompting comparisons with humans. That's coming up. Please stay with us.

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[05:41:19]

BRUNHUBER: All right, now to a remarkable discovery, scientists say they observed an orangutan in Indonesia, intentionally treating a wound on his face with a medicinal plant. Now it's the first time this apparent behavior has been documented. A study in the journal Scientific Reports says the animal treated a wound on his face by chewing leaves for a plant, extracting its juice then repeatedly applying that to the wound.

He then covered the wound with the chewed up leaves which are typically used by humans in traditional medicine, according to a scientific paper published on Thursday. Scientists say the observation quote provides new insights into the existence of self-medication in our closest relatives. Now they concede, it could have been accidental and are studying whether other orangutan repeat the behavior.

So for more on this, we're joined by the study's lead author, Isabelle Laumer. She's a primatologist, and a postdoctoral researcher at the Max Planck Institute of Animal Behavior. Thank you so much for being here with us. So take me through this. I mean, how did you first spot what was going on here?

ISABELLE LAUMER, POST DOCTORAL RESEARCHER, MAX PLANCK INSTITUTE OF ANIMAL BEHAVIOR: Yes, so we observe why Sumatran orangutans at the Swachh Bharat Verlinden (ph) research site since 1994. And we do daily observations of the orangutans in the area around 150 Sumatran orangutans live there, and we spotted Rakus, a male Sumatran orangutan, and he had stained a facial wound. Probably he got this wound from a fight with a neighboring male.

BRUNHUBER: All right, so then the idea that it was actually treating this with a plant. I mean, first of all, the type of plant that he chose, did it actually have any medicinal properties? Or was it just using it sort of more as a band aid or because he liked the look of it?

LAUMER: Yes, so he was using fibraurea tinctoria, which is a quite potent plant, it has anti-inflammatory properties. It also is lowering fever, and it's also pain relieving. And so he was feeding on the plant first, and the plant is rarely eaten by the orangutans in the area. And he then stopped swallowing at one point, and then repeatedly put the tooth part of the plant sap on top of his wound repeatedly for seven minutes.

And then in the end, he even put the more solid plant matter from his mouth, put it on top of the wound until it was completely covered. And then he, yes, it looked like a wound plaster.

BRUNHUBER: I mean, what was your reaction when you realized what was going on?

LAUMER: I mean, we were very excited about this observation, because this observation represents the first evidence for wound treatment with a medical plant in a non-human animal.

BRUNHUBER: When you first reported it, there must have been, you know, plenty of skeptics who would say, you know, maybe it was a mistake, maybe it just kind of got stuck there?

LAUMER: Yes. But we think that this behavior was intentional. So there are several signs. I mean, he was not just repeating so putting the plant choose once, but he was doing so repeatedly. And he then even put more solid plant matter and this entire process to really a considerable amount of time. So that's why we think that the behavior was intentional.

BRUNHUBER: So before this, I mean, I've been aware of all sorts of animals self-medicating, in the sense that they for instance, you know, go out and seek to eat certain types of clay to counteract the effects of poisonous plants but I mean this seems totally different. I was reading that some chimps had been seeing applying insects to their wounds suggesting this type of behavior is something that has evolved in primates.

[05:45:13]

I mean, all of this is sort of reminiscent of Dr. Jane Goodall discovering the chimps use tools, which was something that was considered to be something that only humans did. This, you know, a piece of the puzzle of how our human ancestors developed the use of medicine. What do you think we can learn about this, you know, from ourselves about ourselves, rather? LAUMER: I mean, this this behavior that we observed, and also the behavior of the chimpanzees that apply insects to their wounds, even though we don't know if they have medical properties in them. So we don't know that this behavior shows how similar we are to our closest relatives. I mean orangutans, we share 97 percent of our DNA with them. And it just points towards the similarities. So we are more similar than we are different. And yes, it's also very important to protect these species because they are close to extinction. And yes, so yes.

BRUNHUBER: Well, that's exactly it, because you want to confirm these findings. But given that they are, as you say, so critically endangered, how tough is that challenge with the numbers diminishing in their range diminishing as well, seemingly every day?

LAUMER: Yes, it's very important to create more protected forest areas in which the orangutans can live undisturbed. And it's, you know, this observation also shows how few we still know. I mean, we do observation since 1994. And this was the first time that we ever actually able to observe behavior like that. And so it's very important also to young trends, the populations of great apes to find out more about their astonishing, yes, very human like behaviors.

BRUNHUBER: Yes, exactly, right. I've been lucky enough to see gorillas and chimpanzees in the wild. And that is just the obvious observation when you see them, they're staring back at us just how human they seem. We'll have to leave it there but really exciting to hear from you. Dr. Isabelle Laumer, thank you so much.

LAUMER: You're very welcome.

BRUNHUBER: All right. Still ahead here on CNN Newsroom, all eyes were on Caitlin Clark Friday night with her WNBA debut with the Indiana Fever. CNN sports Andy Scholes joins me next to explain why wasn't the outcome she was hoping for. Stay with us.

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[05:51:32]

BRUNHUBER: All right, we look at sports now. The Dallas Mavericks have sent the L.A. Clippers packing from the NBA Playoffs thanks to some heroics from Kyrie Irving. CNN's sports Andy Scholes joins me now. Andy a tale of two halves for the Maverick superstar ticket.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yes. It certainly was. You know, Kyrie Irving scoring just two points in the first half of game six against the Clippers. But the second half was certainly a different story. The game was tied entering the third quarter but that's when Kyrie just took over. He scored 28 points in the second half and Kyrie was just doing Kyrie things in the fourth. Look at this crossover then a step back three and he got fouled. That had the whole crowd there in Dallas going crazy. Mavs win 114-101 to win this series and six games.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KYRIE IRVING, DALLAS MAVERICKS GUARD: To be honest with you. I was physically tired and exhausted in that first half, playing defense at a high level do that to. But I'm just grateful for my teammates picking me up. We came in at halftime it was zero-zero, 52-52. So it was anybody's game and then we came out in the third quarter and I feel like we hit first and the rest was history for the rest of the game.

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SCHOLES: Mavs now will face the Thunder in round two. We will have one game seven in the first round. Donovan Mitchell scoring 50 for the Cavs in game six as Cleveland tried to close out this series. Cavs had a five point lead entering the fourth quarter but Paolo Banchero and the Magic would ramp up the defense and outscore Cleveland 30 to 18 in that final period. Magic win 103 to 96 to force a winner take all game seven on Sunday.

Caitlin Clark meanwhile, making her WNBA debut for the Indiana Fever last night in front of the first ever sold out crowd for the Dallas wings. And Clark did not disappoint her debut. Just one minute and she had her first three. Moments later, the crossover step back three. Clark made five threes in the game. She scored 21 points. The Fever though would lose their preseason over 79 to 76. But Clark happy with the start.

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CAITLIN CLARK, INDIANA FEVER GUARD: Just a great atmosphere for women's basketball. I think it's a good kickoff to the WNBA season. I think the way we played, you know, there's some things we could have executed a little better. I thought we could have gotten our offense a little bit better. The pace was amazing. That's fun basketball. People like to watch. But overall definitely what I expected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: And on the ice, we had a nail biter in game six between the Canucks and Predators in Nashville, scoreless for the first 58 minutes when Vancouver finally breaks through Pius Suter putting home a great no look pass from Brock Boeser. And rookie Arturs Silovs was just incredible in the net. Final seconds diving stopping what would have been the tying goal to send it to overtime, instead the Canucks survive and advanced one to nothing. Next up, an all Canadian matchup against the Edmonton Oilers in round two.

Finally get your mint juleps and fancy hats ready. It's Derby Day the 150th running of the Kentucky Derby is tonight. And Fierceness is the betting favorite right now after winning the Florida Derby back in March. It's trained by Todd Pletcher, who's won the Derby twice before. Sierra Leone, the second favorite but it's in the number two post the spot. No horse has won the Derby from since 1978. Post time tonight, Kim, 6:57 Eastern and, you know, it's always fun to just try to look at the all the horses that are competing. Pick one you like and try to have some fun and get that -- get a winner. All right, two years ago, Kim, I was at the Derby and I wasn't picking any winners. So I decided I'm going to pick the longest of long shots to win the Derby and it won. Rich Strike 80 to one odds. That was a fun one.

[05:55:01]

BRUNHUBER: So listen if you don't show up to work tomorrow I know why. Andy Scholes thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

Well, the Queen of Pop is getting ready to end her celebration world tour with a huge finale in Rio de Janeiro and people they're obviously really excited. Have a look.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't cry for me Argentina.

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BRUNHUBER: Madonna's roadies completed the final touches for her free show as fans watched and cheered from the famous Copacabana Beach. Local businesses, meanwhile, are cashing in on the events selling lots of Madonna memorabilia from shirts, hats, mugs, even cone shaped bras, which were not showing, oh, we kind of did there. It's estimated that 1.5 million people will attend the spectacle. The city estimates it could pump more than $50 million into the economy.

All right, and before we go, I want to wish a happy Star Wars Day to all the Jedi out there.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Luke. May the force be with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Mark Hamill, Luke Skywalker, you see there showed up at the White House on Friday, ahead of Star Wars Day to give President Joe Biden a new nickname. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK HAMILL, ACTOR: And I call him Mr. President. He said you can call me Joe. And I said can I call you Joe-bi-Wan Kenobi? He liked that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: So that's obviously a reference to the Star Wars character Obi Wan Kenobi. So in the spirit of the day, May the Fourth be with you.

All right, that wraps this hour of CNN Newsroom. I'm Kim Brunhuber for viewers in North America. CNN This Morning is next. The rest of the world is African voices change makers.

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