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CNN International: Judge Rules Trump Violated Gag Order For Tenth Time; Former Trump Org. Exec Who Oversaw Accounting Testifies; Vote On Ousting Speaker Johnson Expected This Week. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired May 06, 2024 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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OMAR JIMENEZ, HOST, "CNN NEWSROOM": Welcome to CNN's special coverage of Trump's hush money trial where the judge has threatened former President Donald Trump with jail time if he violates the gag order in the case moving forward. I'm Omar Jimenez at the courthouse in Lower Manhattan.
RAHEL SOLOMON, HOST, "CNN NEWSROOM": And I'm Rahel Solomon, also in New York, where we continue to follow a possible IDF operation in eastern Rafah, ceasefire tops in Qatar, and major flooding across the world. This is CNN Newsroom.
JIMENEZ: All right. A pretty stunning moment as the judge threatens Donald Trump with jail time if he violates the gag order in this case moving forward. It's not the first time he has mentioned jail. But, this threat appears to be the most serious. Now, that's after Judge Juan Merchan found the former President in contempt of court for the 10th time before testimony began today. And the dramatic moment follows Friday's emotional testimony from former Trump confidant Hope Hicks. She delivered a gripping account of how the Trump campaign mobilized following the release of the Access Hollywood tape in 2016.
Today, we're following maybe slightly less gripping testimony from the former longtime controller at the Trump Organization, but nonetheless, important. And because we don't have cameras in court, you'll notice on the left side of your screen, we've got real time updates coming from our reporters inside.
CNN Correspondent Jessica Schneider joins us now. So, Jessica, can you just explain who we're hearing testimony from today, and why they're so important in the case that the prosecution is trying to build?
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: This witness, Omar, is helping prosecutors get to the heart of these false business records charges. What we're hearing from now is Jeffrey McConney. He worked as the Corporate Controller at the Trump Organization. Prosecutors are saying that he is the one who really maneuvered and helped arrange this reimbursement to Michael Cohen for that Stormy Daniels hush money payments. McConney is actually in his probably hour plus of testimony. He has gotten very detailed about the repayment. So, we're seeing how McConney's notes about how Cohen would be paid,
he'd be paid monthly out of notably Donald Trump's personal account, and how the total repayment would be $360,000 plus a $60,000 bonus, even though as you'll remember, the hush money payment was only $130,000, McConney saying that that additional money accounted for the taxes that would be taken out. And really, this is just the second time, aside from what we heard from David Pecker's testimony, that the jury is hearing really the nitty-gritty details of this money exchange, of course, that is at the heart of this criminal trial.
So, earlier in McConney's testimony, we heard him talk about, and again, this might be key about how carefully Donald Trump was tuned into his finances, even at one point Donald Trump noticed that one week his cash ledger was down from the previous week. So, just recently, in the past few minutes, actually, we've heard from McConney really talking about how the payment to Michael Cohen was labeled as legal expenses, and that it was also being made as part of a retainer. But, notably, when prosecutors asked, did you ever see any written retainer? McConney said, no. So, again, all going to the actual charges in this case of falsifying business records.
So, Omar, this witness, he is getting into the particulars of this cash exchange, something that we haven't heard from other witnesses. David Pecker outlined the broad contours of this scheme. But now, prosecutors have the controller for the Trump Organization testifying as to the exact way that this repayment was made, and kind of showing how it wasn't exactly following usual protocol. So, this could be a -- it's a bit of a dry testimony, not an exciting witness, per se, but could be crucial to the prosecution. Omar.
JIMENEZ: Yeah. It could be notable, and they clearly seem to be trying to establish that Donald Trump was aware of his finances, and especially the notable part, as you talked about, that these payments were being made from Donald Trump's personal account, as we've heard testimony from Jeffrey McConney. Really interesting stuff. Really appreciate the time, Jessica. Thank you.
We're joined now by former state and federal prosecutor David Weinstein as well. David, good to see you again. It hasn't been too long. But, in the last few minutes since we spoke last hour, we've been listening to more testimony from Jeffrey McConney here.
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And on my last point to Jessica, how significant is it that these payments were coming from Donald Trump's personal account here to Michael Cohen? What significance does that play here, if any?
DAVID WEINSTEIN, FORMER STATE AND FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, & PARTNER, JONES WALKER LLP: Well, Omar, as Jessica pointed out, it is very significant here again, because this is about falsifying business records and violation of New York law. Who falsified the records? How are they falsified? What was the motive behind it? And what was it being done for tying it into the election and campaign financing?
So, he is part of the glue that's holding this puzzle together in this foundation that the prosecution is building. So, he is a very important witness, as you pointed out, a very dry witness. This is about money in money out, but it shows where it's coming from, personal accounts. Who is directing it? Donald Trump. How is it being characterized as legal payments for a retainer that apparently doesn't exist? And again, all leading up to Michael Cohen telling the jury the same thing, and the prosecution being able to say he is not making this up. You heard from several other witnesses, especially this one witness on Monday, a couple of weeks ago, and that's why this case is a solid one, and we're proving our case beyond a reasonable doubt.
JIMENEZ: Yeah. And look, while this case in many spots is being billed as the hush money trial, there are a lot of different elements here. Right? There is, of course, allegations of election interference. There is, of course, the hush money payments that we've spoken about. There is, of course, what they're being charged with falsifying business records. But, we've seen sort of the prosecution tell a story of sorts, based on who they've called to the witness stand prior to this. It seems to have been focusing a lot on the motivation around the Trump World for why these hush money payments would have been made in the context and timing around them. Do you see this as the transition into a next phase of the prosecution's case here? Do you think we're there yet?
WEINSTEIN: I do see it as a transition. Now, that doesn't mean we're not going to come back to another part of the story. Remember, witnesses --
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
WEINSTEIN: -- are put on in a particular order to both tell a story based on witness availability, and you always want to sandwich some of these dryer records witnesses in between witnesses who are going to be a little more exciting. You're telling this jury a story you want to keep their attention. It's like a play. Not every act of a play is as exciting as the other acts, but they all work together, and that's what the prosecution is doing here. And we're making that transition now into how do the records support the testimony, and how does this show that the records were falsified?
JIMENEZ: Obviously, we've heard from a number of witnesses up to this point. I want to pivot back a little bit to Hope Hicks, who we heard from on Friday, that some may see is one of those more exciting witnesses, especially being so close to the former President, both when he was President and as a candidate as well. Do -- was there anything that stood out to you as far as what Hope Hicks testified in regards to what the prosecution was able to get out of her and what the defense was able to get out or on cross?
WEINSTEIN: I think they both made points with her. For the prosecution, she is inside the orbit. She gives that inside knowledge about how much does Donald Trump know about what's going on? How much of it is being done at his direction, at others' direction that he agrees with? How it's characterized? How hands on he was to operate this whole thing going to what the prosecution needs to show, to show his criminal intent? And again, both before he was President, after he was President, how did it change? His behavior being the same. For the defense, they painted her as a reluctant witness, one who was,
in their opinion, sort of characterizing her testimony, bending to the prosecution, not really wanting to be there and explaining in their cross-examination that some of what the prosecution has said she was testifying about wasn't exactly correct, that her memory was sort of being molded by the prosecution. So, both sides making points. And for the defense, that means that they're asking the jury to sort of doubt what she is saying about how much Trump knew about what was going on inside, and that she is not necessarily telling them what the prosecution wants to hear. So, both sides scoring points.
JIMENEZ: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I liked your metaphor describing what we're seeing as a play in sorts as far as the rhythms of the types of witnesses that we're seeing. So, maybe we're in a filler episode right now or filler act, but it's all really, really critical, as we've learned, even just in the first hour or so of testimony that we've heard from Jeffrey McConney. David Weinstein, really appreciate the time and perspective, as always.
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I want to now turn to my colleague Rahel Solomon, who is also in New York and has been tracking a different set of drama further down the coast brewing on Capitol Hill.
SOLOMON: Yeah, Omar, a different type of episode. The drama really ratcheting up in D.C.
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
SOLOMON: Omar, thank you. We are in a pivotal week for Republican U.S. House Speaker Mike Johnson. He is facing a major showdown that could cost him his job. Republican congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene says that she plans to make good on her threat to force an ouster vote. Now, in a strange twist, House Democrats could actually come to Johnson's rescue as a show of support for his efforts to help pass the recent foreign aid package.
Let me bring in now CNN's Annie Grayer, who is live in Washington with the details. Annie, good to see you. So, we have learned recently that Marjorie Taylor Greene and Mike Johnson are planning to meet privately in just a few hours from now. What more can you share with us?
ANNIE GRAYER, CNN REPORTER: This is a key meeting, Rahel. This is the first time the two sides are going to be coming together behind closed doors. And it's such a key week because Greene says she is going to be making her move to oust Johnson this week. We're told that Marjorie Taylor Greene called this meeting because she wants to talk with Johnson one-on-one about her plans, and what -- how Johnson responds is really going to determine, we're told, how she handles the rest of this week, because we don't know yet exactly when she is going to bring this motion. We are just told that she will do it at some point.
Now, for Johnson's part, he sees this as a complete waste of time and a bad look for Republicans, as he is trying to govern and keep his very narrow majority and divided majority together. Greene maintains that she has a lot of support for this effort, but only two Republicans have signed on to her resolution. Part of why Johnson is so confident here is he has the public backing of House Democrats to help him kill this effort.
So, really, we know how this is going to end, Rahel, likely with this effort being killed, but it's just a matter of when it happens.
SOLOMON: You also have to wonder about the optics of Democrats saving his job, if in fact that is how this all comes to pass. Annie, let me also ask in other news from over the weekend, a Justice Department indictment saying that Texas Democrat Henry Cuellar and his wife allegedly took nearly $600,000 in bribes. What more are we learning about that?
GRAYER: Well, the pair had their initial court appearance on Friday where they then made bail. And Cuellar maintains that he and his wife are innocent. He plans to continue running for reelection. But, the top Democrat in the House, Hakeem Jeffries, says that while Cuellar should be granted his innocence as this trial plays out, Cuellar should step down from his Committee assignments in the meantime. So, this court case is just getting underway. We're expecting more developments this week. But, for this to come out at such a pivotal time was really a shock to so many.
SOLOMON: All right. Annie Grayer live for us on Capitol Hill. Annie, thank you.
All right. Coming up, international pressure intensifying ahead of a possible Israeli ground invasion of Rafah. Civilians have been told and ordered to evacuate. We're going to take you to the region. Plus, China's President is in France for an official visit. We're going to have a live report from Paris with what's on the agenda. We'll be right back.
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SOLOMON: Welcome back. And to Europe now, Chinese President Xi Jinping is in Paris right now meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron. This is Xi's first official visit to Europe in five years. He is trying to quiet critics in Europe over recent trade investigations and arrests for alleged espionage on behalf of China. European leaders are also concerned about Xi's growing ties with Russia amid its war in Ukraine. Upon arrival on Sunday, he emphasized the importance of maintaining bilateral relations.
Joining us now from Paris is Melissa Bell. So, Melissa, give us a sense of what's on the agenda here, and what France and Europe is trying to accomplish in this visit.
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a meeting that's just gotten underway behind me in Elysee Palace between Emmanuel Macron and Xi Jinping. It follows that roundtable we saw earlier when there was also the President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen. This is a trip that starts with arguably the toughest crowd that Xi Jinping is going to meet amongst Europeans in the shape of the European Commission leader and Emmanuel Macron that will end, Rahel, over in Serbia and Hungary with much friendlier voices in terms of their stand towards Beijing.
And the reason these ties have been so complicated, if you cast your mind back to that visit you mentioned five years ago, Rahel, it was a much different Western Europe that was greeting President Xi Jinping. You'll remember that Italy had gone so far as to join China's Belt and Braces Initiative, only withdrawing formally this March. Since, of course, a lot has happened, not just COVID, but of course the war in Ukraine. And there is a great deal of unease here in Europe about the continued selling by Beijing of many of those dual-part components that are helping Russia's economy and argue Europeans its war economy, and that's going to be part of the subject of the conversations here in Paris.
Also, of course, at the heart of their disquiet, the Europeans that is, there is the looming trade war with Beijing that you mentioned, not only the probes by the EU into what they consider suspect, maybe unfair practices, a great deal of unsettled voices within Europe's automobile industry as a result of the flooding of the European market by specifically Chinese electrical vehicles, but also suspicions of unfair practices is a subject of probes. There has also been a counter step by Beijing looking into the fairness of France's cognac exports towards the country. And that looming trade war, of course, is the background to these talks, much more fraught than, Rahel, than they were five years ago when Europe was arguing against Washington that it was a much more constructive relationship that was needed with Beijing.
It is to take down to settle some of those ruffled feathers that Xi Jinping is here, and from the point of view of the Europeans, to see what room for maneuver there is in seeking to maintain their cooperation with Beijing, even as they seek some reassurances on some of those fears that I mentioned, Rahel.
SOLOMON: Yeah. I mean, Melissa, you make the excellent point that the world is a very different place than it was five years ago for numerous reasons.
Melissa, let me ask, when we expect to hear from both of these leaders, which we do expect within the hour, if I remember correctly, do we expect to hear any deliverables? Do we expect to hear any agreements or such, or is this a diplomatic visit?
BELL: I think that'll be one of the big questions when they stand out. We haven't been given any insight into that so far, Rahel. But, it will take some pretty substantial concessions on the part of Beijing for Europe to change. It's much different approach and one that has hardened substantially these last few months. What Europe is talking about now, Rahel, is de-risking, not decoupling. They make that distinction. But, they really want to wean themselves off their dependency from Beijing. It's difficult to see what Xi Jinping might offer that would lead Europe to change that tack. Remember that this is a continent and the European Union under a great
deal of pressure itself economically. It's difficult to see what might be done, at least the veneer of continued dialogue. And as we heard from Xi Jinping this morning, his hope that more can be done to increase cooperation and perhaps at best, Rahel, averse that fear of an all-out trade war that is looming so greatly right now.
SOLOMON: Yeah, perhaps lower the temperature a bit. Melissa Bell live for us in Paris. Melissa, thank you.
Well, the city of Rafah is now the main pressure point in the Israel- Hamas war. U.S. President Joe Biden spoke to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu just a short time ago, and discussions were expected to center on the humanitarian impact of a possible ground invasion of Rafah. Civilians in Gaza are leaving Rafah after an Israeli military call to evacuate immediately. Israel's Defense Minister has told troops inside of Gaza to expect what he calls quote "intense action in the coming days."
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The Rafah evacuation order comes after Israel close the Kerem Shalom border crossing to aid trucks following a deadly rocket attack that was claimed by Hamas. Now, on the diplomatic front, U.S. CIA Director William Burns remains in Doha for more possible ceasefire talks despite previous plans to travel to Israel. Clearly a lot happening. We have team coverage for you.
We want to bring CNN's Katie Bo Lillis, who joins us from Washington, and Correspondent Jeremy diamond, who joins us from Jerusalem.
Jeremy, let me start with you. This IDF order, the IDF says that it's an order that impacts 100,000 people. That is obviously a fraction of the number of people living in Rafah. What more can you share with us about this threatened invasion?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, for months now, Rahel, the Israeli military has threatened a ground offensive into Rafah. That offensive has been delayed as these ceasefire negotiations have been ongoing in recent weeks with hopes that perhaps an agreement could be brokered between Israel and Hamas to see dozens of hostages release, hundreds of Palestinian prisoners, and of course, a ceasefire that would avert this major ground offensive into Rafah. But, those negotiations are now stalled.
And as a result, what we are seeing is the Israeli military carrying out what appeared to be the first stages to lay the groundwork for that ground offensive and that is ordering tens of thousands of people in eastern Rafah to begin evacuating north. Thousands of leaflets were dropped early this morning. People received phone calls and text messages as well. But, now the question is, will the area where they're being directed to go, will it be adequate for tens of thousands of people to live in? The Israeli military has said that it has brought in additional tents, food, water, medicine, including field hospitals set up in the Al-Muwasi, an expanded humanitarian zone that also now includes western Khan Younis and parts of central Gaza. But, humanitarian aid officials have raised severe concerns that the
area is not adequate enough for so many people to be able to live in, and also concerns that while this initial evacuation order is limited to eastern Rafah with 100,000 people living there, that fear and panic could quickly spread to the rest of that city in Gaza where 1.4 million Palestinians are currently estimated to be living, and that if tens of thousands more people beyond those in eastern Rafah begin to move to that humanitarian Zone, it could quickly be overwhelmed, and we could be facing a very dire humanitarian situation.
So, a lot of moving parts here to keep an eye on. Those ceasefire negotiations, while they have stalled, they are still ongoing, with the CIA Director in the region trying to desperately broker an agreement that could perhaps avert the sight of Israeli tanks and troops moving into Rafah.
SOLOMON: And Jeremy, standby for a moment.
Let me bring in Katie Bo. Katie, just following -- Katie Bo, following up on what Jeremy just said there, ceasefire talks did appear to break down over the weekend, but continue. You have the IDF warning eastern Rafah to evacuate. Bill Burns is in Doha. Where do things stand right now?
KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: Yeah, Rahel. So, certainly, as Jeremy said, negotiations for some kind of agreement to enable the release of some Israeli hostages held by Hamas in exchange for a potential ceasefire or a potential pause in the fighting have yet again stalled here. The proposal on the table is one that was proposed by Egypt that the U.S. has termed quote, "very generous." It would engineer essentially the release of about 33 hostages in exchange for a pause in fighting.
The big sticking point here, though, Rahel, is that Hamas, at this point, is refusing to accept the terms of those deals -- with that deal without some commitment from Israel to essentially end the conflict or essentially end the fighting. And this is something that Israel has been unwilling to do. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, of course, under a lot of pressure from the right wing of his governing coalition to prioritize the dismantling of Hamas over even the release of prisoners.
That said, Rahel, even though we are in this sort of this impasse moment, U.S. officials clearly don't yet believe that the deal is dead. CIA Director Bill Burns, as you mentioned, remains in Doha today after being in Cairo yesterday. He will remain in the region to continue trying to kind of engineer some kind of a deal, bring this deal to fruition. But, of course, the stakes couldn't be higher here for Rafah. U.S. officials believing that Israel's warnings about going into Rafah, about this operation in Rafah are certainly in part intended as a pressure tactic on Hamas to try to get them to agree to this deal.
There is also some logistical challenges here. There is certainly a sense that the leader of Hamas, Yahya Sinwar, would have to agree to this proposal, and communication inside Gaza and with him has occasionally been very difficult. So, as Jeremy said, lots of moving parts here and very high stakes.
SOLOMON: All right. Jeremy, let me bring you back into this conversation. We expect President Joe Biden to remember or mark Holocaust Remembrance Day. Give us a sense of how this day, solemn day, is being marked and remembered.
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DIAMOND: Well, in Israel, millions of Israelis are certainly remembering the six million Jews who were killed in the Holocaust. This is a day of mourning in Israel with many shops, restaurants and businesses closed as people mark this day. At 10 a.m. this morning, there was a siren across Israel to mark two minutes of silence in honor of the victims of the Holocaust. The Israeli Prime Minister also delivered remarks marking Holocaust Remembrance Day. And he is doing so bringing the historical context into the context of Israel's war in Gaza today, saying that the Jewish people will never again be defenseless.
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BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: 80 years ago, in the Holocaust, the Jewish people were totally defenseless against those who sought our destruction. No nation came to our aid. Today, we again confront enemies bent on our destruction. I say to the leaders of the world, no amount of pressure, no decision by any international forum will stop Israel from defending itself. As the Prime Minister of Israel, the one and only Jewish state, I pledge here today from Jerusalem on this Holocaust Remembrance Day, if Israel is forced to stand alone, Israel will stand alone.
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DIAMOND: And obviously, those remarks come in the context of enormous pressure from the international community, including the United States, for Israel not to move forward with this ground offensive into Rafah, which President Biden and his administration have warned would have enormous consequences for civilians, in which they've said they cannot support if adequate precautions and measures are not put in place to ensure that those civilians who are displaced from Rafah will be safe where they go. U.S. officials have yet to indicate that they have seen the level of specificity required of those plans in order to be able to support this Israeli action. But, you hear the Israeli Prime Minister there defiant, vowing that Israel will move forward with its plans even if it has to stand alone. Rahel.
SOLOMON: Yeah. As we understand, that call between Netanyahu and President Joe Biden lasted about 30 minutes. We're still waiting to get a readout of exactly what was discussed. Our thanks to you, Katie Bo Lillis in Washington and Jeremy Diamond in Jerusalem. Thank you both.
All right. We're going to take a quick break. And coming up next, we'll return to Donald Trump's hush money trial. And even before testimony began today, there was drama in the courtroom. We will explain. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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JIMENEZ: All right. Welcome back, everyone. The judge in Donald Trump's hush money trial issuing a stern warning today to the former President, going forward, this court will have to consider a jail sanction. That's after the judge ruled Trump violated the gag order in the case for the 10th time. Now, Juan Merchan said the last thing he wants to do is put Trump in jail, but he added he has a job to do.
And I want to bring in CNN legal analyst Norm Eisen, who has been in court and is here with me now. He is the former House Judiciary Special Counsel in Trump's first impeachment trial, and has litigated cases against Trump previously, also former White House Ethics czar. Norm, all right, you and I were talking beforehand, really interesting day over the course of it. We were kind of wondering how the judge would fare on these new four alleged gag order violations. We saw him hone in on one. What was your reaction to him sort of drawing the line and saying, look, at this point, the next time you do this, it is going to be jail?
NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, & FMR. HOUSE JUDICIARY SPECIAL COUNSEL IN 1ST TRUMP IMPEACHMENT: Omar, in a trial that has had more than its share of dramatic moments already, we're only about a third of the way through. This was perhaps the most intense confrontation that we've seen yet. Donald Trump has very persistently violated this gag order. There is only $1,000 per violation that the judge can fine him. He warned when he found the first nine violations that he would up the ante. Today, he found a 10th violation. And he told Trump, if you keep this up, you are going to force me to put you in jail, as difficult as that will be for the trial, for the personnel and for the country.
JIMENEZ: Yeah. And that was just how the day started today, because then we've been hearing testimony from Jeffrey McConney, the former longtime controller at the Trump Organization. And the way we've sort of been listening to it and sort of framing it in discussions is there is exciting testimony. There is not so exciting testimony, but still important testimony. And as McConney has been going through some of the specifics of the financial relationships between Cohen, the Trump Organization, Trump himself coming from his personal account, what is your read on the testimony that we've seen so far from McConney?
EISEN: Well, after the intensity of the judge's confrontation with Trump, and the look that Trump gave the judge, it was intense on both sides. It was that identical look, as you saw in his mugshot, Omar. After that, we settled into an extremely important but very mundane part of the case. And that is this is after all a prosecution for 34 false business records. Now, to be felonies, there has to be an intent to cover up another crime. The entire trial so far, the first two weeks of testimony, have focused on the other crime, the alleged election interference crimes under federal and state law.
Today, Jeffrey McConney, accounting professional, took us through the accounting crimes. It was mundane. It was ordinary. It was low key. But, I was watching the jury, and the jury was paying very close attention. The prosecution kind of gave them their dessert first, and now it's the vegetables. But, the jury is focused on that. And of course, that's critically important because you've got to have the jury following the trail of breadcrumbs on these 34 false -- alleged false documents.
JIMENEZ: And we've seen over the course of today the jury has been following some of the documents that have been presented on screens that they've had, to your point, keeping up with what's been presented in court. But, you also brought up something really interesting, because look, it's been billed as the hush money case in many circles. But, it has to do with election interference. It has to do with the hush money that, of course, we've been talking about, but also with what the charges are center on, which is the falsifying business records here. Do you see this as the transition into the falsifying business records, the alleged falsified business records portion of this case, or is this just sort of a tidbit here?
EISEN: It's fascinating how they've chosen to do it. The answer is that they are now introducing the second main theme or part of the case, and we're going to see alternation between these two different parts of the case as we go forward, the alleged campaign in election and tax crimes --
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
EISEN: -- the tax crimes came up today too, that make the falsification of felony plus the falsification itself.
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Without that part one, the drama of the hush money payments that the prosecution claims were campaign and election interference, sometimes they call them election fraud or illegal election influence, that's the allegation, without that, these 34 documents that we heard about all morning would just be misdemeanors.
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
EISEN: It's that intent --
JIMENEZ: Intent.
EISEN: -- to commit another crime.
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
EISEN: As you know, because we've talked about it, my view from the get go has been it's a mistake to call it the hush money case.
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
EISEN: Hush money is not a crime. And the point of the hush money was, according to prosecutors, to interfere with illegally influence an election. That's really what they've been arguing. But, today's document evidence, just as important to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, if they can get there.
JIMENEZ: 100 percent. I also want to bring in Jeff Swartz. He is a former Florida judge and a law professor, who joins me now. And Jeff, I'm curious, from your perspective, I want to get your take on one of the things we heard from the witness today, Jeffrey McConney, is that these payments in many cases were coming from Donald Trump's personal account. And I'm curious to you, do you see that as significant?
JEFF SWARTZ, FORMER FLORIDA JUDGE, AND LAW PROFESSOR: It's very significant, because the chances are that there is nothing coming out of his account that he isn't actually signing for himself, and that he doesn't have knowledge of. As we all know, Mr. Trump has a reputation of being rather frugal especially when he is not spending money on himself. So, here, I think that because this is so important to him, there is no way money is coming out of his account that he doesn't know about.
JIMENEZ: And look, we've talked about, even joked about in some cases, that the testimony today is a little bit more mundane, but still very, very important. I want to go a little bit back to what some may have seen as exciting testimony when Hope Hicks was on the stand on Friday. What do you think the prosecution was able to get out of her, and what do you think the defense was able to get out of her, because they did seem to score a few points in their direction during that testimony?
SWARTZ: Well, the defense scored points in getting Hope Hicks to say that Michael Cohen ran off on his own, that he was rogue. He didn't do anything to fix something that he hadn't broken himself, kind of got into what his role was with the Trump Organization and how important he was. But, to the same extent, she gave them the flavor of what was going on inside the Trump Organization, as all of these different things were coming to light, things that were dangerous to his campaign, and how he was concentrating on his campaign, not on his family, and that it was all consuming during those last couple of weeks of the campaign.
That's important, because the key to this is that the purpose, that is the more substantial purpose of what they were doing was to hide contributions they were making, in essence, to the campaign, and that they were hiding these payments to influence the campaign. And she gave them a just a big shot of that on Friday.
JIMENEZ: Yeah, and she had an interesting perspective as being both the press secretary on the campaign, but of course the communications director once he was in the White House as well, where she testified had access to what she said were some reflections over the timing of when all this was going on.
Norm, just before we go, you're about to head back into court right now as prosecutors reentered the courtroom. We've been on a break to this point. What are you looking for in the remainder of McConney's testimony today?
EISEN: I'll put on my defense lawyer hat, because --
JIMENEZ: Yeah. EISEN: -- most of my career, I was a defense lawyer. What we haven't yet heard from McConney, and I think where the defense is going to open when they get to cross-examine him is, did Donald Trump ever tell you that he was signing this check in order to make an illegal campaign contribution? No. Did Donald Trump ever talk to you about why he was signing this check? No. Were you there when Donald Trump and Michael Cohen supposedly discussed these payments? No. So, the defense is going to hammer as they did with Hope Hicks at some of the gaps and the helpful information that they can elicit.
JIMENEZ: Yeah. And we have seen him testify to this point that while he seems to have known about retainer agreements, he never actually has seen the actual retainer agreements. So, it'll be interesting there.
Jeff, if you're still with us, before we go here, and I talked to Norm about this sort of being a transition into a next phase of the trial here, especially from their prosecution standpoint, do you see it that way? What are you left looking for from the prosecution's case now that we're hearing this testimony from McConney?
[11:40:00]
SWARTZ: Well, Norm was correct. I heard him say that they keep going from one to another. In other words, they're bringing in a blockbuster, then they put on some mundane things that have to go in, and then they get the jury's attention again by putting something else on. This is a phase that has to be covered. But, I don't know that they want to go into a long drawn out situation where they're explaining all of this financial stuff to the jury. That will bore them. So, they'll have to throw somebody else in there that draws their attention, whether it's McDougal, whether it's Stormy Daniels, whether Michael is going to be last. So, I don't see him in the middle of the case. And maybe somebody else that they can think of that will draw attention. I think that's what they're going to do. They need to keep the jury interested.
JIMENEZ: Yeah, and we say all this as McConney is back on the stand. The trial has resumed. So, Jeff Swartz, I want to appreciate you. Norm Eisen, I want to get you back into court. Appreciate your perspective as well, as we continue to monitor this testimony that is now ongoing. It has resumed. We'll bring you those updates and so much more after this break. We'll be right back.
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SOLOMON: Welcome back. You are watching CNN Newsroom. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York. And here are some of the international headlines we're watching for you today.
After weeks of very heavy rainfall that led to intense flooding, Kenya still not getting a break from severe weather. Take a look at this video of Nyando River. The death toll from flooding across the country has risen to 228 people, and authorities are warning that more heavy rainfall is expected in the north and the west regions. The Office of Kenya's President says that at least 72 people are still missing, and more than 1,600 people have evacuated from Nairobi after authorities listed high risk areas.
For more now, let's bring in CNN Correspondent Larry Madowo, who joins us live from Nairobi. And Larry, I think the picture behind you really speaks for itself. I mean, clearly, still quite a bit of heavy rainfall there. Walk us through what you're seeing and what you've experienced.
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Rahel, this is one of the more wealthy neighborhoods here in Nairobi. Runda is just a few 100 meters away from the U.S. embassy and the UN headquarters in Nairobi. So, this is one of the more exclusive parts of the city and they were not spared. In fact, overall, the floods have been the great equalizer here. Part of the reason here is because these expensive homes, some of them, the restaurants here, are built on what is known as riparian land. They're on a riverbed. They should not be building there. It is against the government guidance, but it's not always heated, and this is what happens.
It rained for about six hours overnight yesterday. It's almost 16 hours later. This place is still flooded. For most of the day, this road was closed so that people are not swept away, the cars, the motorbikes.
[11:45:00]
The people walking across here are risking their lives by using the road because the conditions could change at any time. This is a small microcosm of what you see after two months of strong rainfall across the country. You were talking about river Nyando overflowing after bursting its banks in western part of the country in Kisumu. That's the same situation just about everywhere, because after these few weeks of rainfall, every river, every dam, every stream is overflowing, and the warning is that there must have been more rainfall to come. Almost 20,000 people displaced so far. 228 people have died. And Kenya is overwhelmed.
President William Ruto has thrown an appeal internationally for other countries to help with those who have been displaced, to offer their food, to offer them shelter, to offer them non-food items, because they might be there for a while as they begin to rebuild. And today, he is also offering them about $75 to begin to kind of figure out what happens next. That is a small drop in the ocean. The need here is far greater.
But, what's the big thing here, Rahel, is this was predicted. The Kenya Met Department did forecasting enhanced rainfall due to the El Nino weather phenomenon. And there has been a lot of criticism of the Kenyan government for not having adequately prepared, without having issued a proper early warning and for responding quickly when people were experiencing these floods, Rahel.
SOLOMON: Yeah. Certainly a lot of questions to come after this weather event. But, clearly, the primary concern remains just the here and now, as you say, is more rain as expected, which is just even hard to wrap your head around. Larry Madowo live for us there in Nairobi. Larry, thanks so much.
Meantime, here in the U.S., millions of people across the country also trying to deal and cope with deadly severe weather. Right now, parts of the Midwest are under the highest level of a tornado threat. This is happening as heavy rain drenched parts of Texas over the weekend, displacing thousands of people and forcing hundreds of rescues and killing at least one person. On Sunday, this four-year-old little boy, Lucas Warren, was swept away by floodwaters.
Joining us now from Harris County, Texas, is CNN's Rosa Flores. Rosa, just an awful story there, and tornado threat now adding to the danger there for people. What are things like on the ground?
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me start with the story of this little boy, because his mother spoke to NBC DFW and explained the circumstances surrounding the death. She says that the family which included mom, dad and son, were driving home during a storm. There were floodwaters. This family was driving through a flooded area. Now, the mom says that there was no barricade blocking people, drivers from traversing in that area. And so, they kept on going. Well, lo and behold, the water was too strong. The battery of the vehicle died. Then water started going into the vehicle.
And this mom telling NBC DFW that they went outside of the vehicle to try to get to higher ground, and then she describes the final moments when she last saw her son and she said this quote, "a current came up real high, and just let go, and I didn't hear anything from him. I think he just went under." Now, this mother, who was devastated, says that first responders arrived moments later, but it of course was too late. The body of her son was recovered hours later, and she describes her son as just a bright and sweet little boy who was going to be turning five-years-old and just a few weeks.
Now, Rahel, we reached out to the Johnson County Office of Emergency Management, that's the county that's just out of Dallas where this occurred, to ask about that road that was not barricaded and why? We received a statement from them, saying quote "Until the 911 call that prompted our water rescue on County Road 528, there had been no calls reporting high water in the area. In that particular area of the county, there is around 250 miles of roadway that have to be checked, and can take some time to make evaluations. It's one of the reasons we stress that it's important for an individual's own safety not to drive into flooded roadways, even if they look passable."
And Rahel, as I mentioned, this tragedy happened in Dallas. I'm in Harris County, which is close to Houston. That just gives you a sense of the magnitude of this storm. And I can tell you that the message from officials is always the same. If you see rising waters, if there is a street that has been swallowed by water, even if you think it looks passable, don't drive through the water because it can be extremely dangerous, and as we know in this case, deadly. Rahel, back to you.
SOLOMON: Yeah. The thing you often hear, which certainly sounds really cliche and catchy, is turn around, don't drown, but there is certainly a lot of wisdom to the adage. Rosa Flores live for us there in Texas. Thank you, Rosa.
[11:50:00]
OK. And more flooding to tell you about, this time in southern Brazil. Officials say that at least 83 people are now dead and more than 100 others still missing. The series of floods has affected more than 850,000 people across hundreds of municipalities. Heavy rain has been falling in the region since late April.
All right. We're going to take a quick break, and we'll be right back.
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SOLOMON: Welcome back. A rare phenomenon is affecting more than a dozen U.S. states. And chances are you'll hear it before you see it.
CNN's Whitney Wild reports billions of cicadas are beginning to emerge above ground.
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WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you live in several Midwest or southern states this spring, neighbors you likely didn't know were there, will make their presence known by the billions. Two broods of cyclical cicadas will emerge. Brood 19 and Brood 13 have been living underground for 13 and 17 years each, well before Abby Warren and Persia Arcillus (ph) were born.
WILD: Are you excited of cicadas?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
WILD: How come you are excited, Abby?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I love how they're really loud and they got ear, ear.
WILD (voice-over): The two broods haven't crawled above ground at the same time since 1803. Back then, Thomas Jefferson was President and Illinois wasn't a state yet. Fast forward to 2024 and teenage cicadas are set to crawl in every corner of the Prairie State. Major metro areas like Nashville, Atlanta and St. Louis will also see their share of what's been dubbed cicada-geddon. When groups of males get together, their mating call will be impossible to ignore. The volume of the buzz can rival a dump truck.
WILD: How many cicadas do you think are going to emerge?
ALLEN LAWRENCE, ASSOCIATE CURATOR OF ENTOMOLOGY, PEGGY NOTEBAERT NATURE MUSEUM: Across the entire eastern U.S., we probably are going to see trillions.
WILD: Trillions?
WILD (voice-over): Allen Lawrence studies insects at the Peggy Notebaert Nature Museum in Chicago, and can't wait for this year's Super Bowl of Super Bugs.
LAWRENCE: This means a chance to just be fully immersed in just a really unique entomological phenomenon. This really only happens in the U.S.
WILD (voice-over): Here, swarms have pestered the press and politicians alike.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Watch out for the cicadas. I just got one.
WILD (voice-over): They have also inspired artists like Anthony Hall, who created a t-shirt and a mascot for the moment.
WILD: OK. What's the inspiration behind the Chicago cicadas?
ANTHONY HALL, DESIGNER AND ILLUSTRATOR, HAREBRAINED: So, I've always been a huge fan of vintage sports mascots.
WILD: So, how many orders do you have so far?
HALL: Oh, hundreds.
WILD: Hundreds? I think I'm most excited about the opportunity to communicate and to educate --
WILD (voice-over): At "The Insect Asylum" in Chicago, Nina Salem says their call for artists to paint plaster cicadas to raise funds echoed farther than she imagined.
WILD: Ooh, look at that. Just like the real thing when it comes out of the shell.
NINA SALEM, FOUNDER, "THE INSECT ASYLUM": Exactly.
WILD: For some people, this is -- it is fun. It's a chance to showcase their artistry, but for other people, it's a really heartfelt moment. I wonder what it is you find so fascinating and so enthralling about them.
SALEM: We all go through periods of growth and the cicada goes through significant growth.
WILD (voice-over): Whitney Wild, CNN, Chicago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOLOMON: All right. Meantime, bakers in France have risen to the occasion to take back the record for world's largest baguette. A crew of French bread makers baked the 140-meter baguette in a suburb of Paris. They began shaping the dough. They used a specially built oven on wheels. Now, the previous record for longest baguette was held by Italy for a 132-meter baguette baked in 2019.
[11:55:00]
Part of the loaf was caught and shared with the public. The rest will be given to the area's homeless residents.
All right. Let's take a quick look at the markets and see how we are starting the week, and it is green across the board with the Dow, NASDAQ and S&P, all up. The Dow is up about one tenth of a percent, not bad, though. NASDAQ up three quarters of a percentage point, and the S&P up more than half a percent, to start this lovely week. And in Europe, see markets are mixed. So, it is a big holiday in London. FTSE 100 close, however, up half a percent. DAX up about a percent. CAC 40 half a percent. And Zurich, just about the same.
And over in Asia, also we can call it a trend at this point, markets green across the board, Hang Seng, Shanghai, all of which up between about one tenth of a percent and two percent. Not bad.
All right. Speaking of money, we know your time is money. So, thank you for spending some time with me. I'm Rahel Solomon in New York. Stick with CNN. One World is coming up next.
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