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Stormy Daniels Faces Trump, Testifies About Their Alleged Affair; Federal Judge Indefinitely Postpones Trump's Classified Documents; Hamas Says It Offered a Ceasefire Deal, Israel Says It's Not Enough. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired May 08, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin the hour with Donald Trump fuming over the testimony from porn star Stormy Daniels and his hush money trial. Trump has the day off in that trial, but he's lashing out on social media, on his social media account, calling D.A. Alvin Bragg all kinds of names and complaining that he's being persecuted.

Tomorrow, he'll once again come face to face with Daniels, who's scheduled to be cross-examined after offering up lurid details of their alleged sexual encounter. Yesterday, the judge in the case rejected Trump's request for a mistrial after some of the tawdry testimony clearly got under the former president's skin. Judge Merchan chastised Trump for cursing and shaking his head throughout Daniels' turn on the stand, saying he won't tolerate that conduct because it could intimidate the witness.

And Trump is already on thin ice. Merchan previously warned Trump could face jail time if he continues to attack jurors and witnesses.

Donald Trump did catch a break though in the classified documents case, a federal judge he appointed and definitely postponed that trial. That means Trump's hush money trial could be the only one that he'll face before the November election.

Joining me now is former Trump White House Deputy Press Secretary Sarah Matthews. And, Sarah, I mean, lots to go through this morning after what we all witnessed yesterday. You worked for the former president. How much do you think his attorneys are just sort of waiting to see if the volcano explodes today? I mean, as we were just saying, he's on thin ice. If he tweets the wrong thing or posts the wrong thing, I mean, it could land him in jail. They have to be worried. And what do you think is going through Trump's mind right now after all that testimony yesterday?

SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: Yes, I certainly wouldn't want to be working on his campaign team or be one of his attorneys right now, just given I think that he's more than certainly lashing out at them. He's upset after that testimony.

Look, Stormy Daniels disclosed a lot of salacious details, personal things about their interactions, whether he wore a condom, details about him and his wife not sleeping in the same bedroom. So, he was definitely upset. And we saw that. He said -- the judge had to warn his lawyers to tell the a defendant to stop shaking his head and swearing under his breath and things like that.

So, I think he definitely is on thin ice with the judge, but I don't know if we'll see Donald Trump break the gag order again. I think that he is worried about going to jail. Look, he's a germophobe. I don't think he wants to go to jail, honestly. And I --

ACOSTA: So, when he says, I'll make that sacrifice, he said that the other day, you're not buying it?

MATTHEWS: I'm not buying it. I think it's a show of force. He wants to appear tough and strong to his supporters. I think that his campaign is going to play into the idea that if he were to do any sort of jail time that would only help him in the polls. But I don't think that it will ultimately come to that. I mean, I think he'll push it up until the edge.

He'll continue to, for sure, go I don't think he's going to be able to go after the prosecutor, as we've seen, the judge, but under his gag order, he is allowed to attack them. But I don't think that will necessarily see him go and attack the witnesses and everything because I have to imagine he is worried about doing jail time.

ACOSTA: And you've been around Donald Trump in the Oval Office. What must he be going through right now knowing that he is in this kind of box where there are parameters, there are there are rules that he can't violate right now, that he's not in control of the courtroom? So, when he's muttering, you know, obscenities and curse words and so on, and the judge is admonishing his lawyers, I mean, that has to be getting under his skin.

MATTHEWS: Certainly. He is someone who's used to being in control. And, look, when he walks into a room at Mar-a-Lago, he's used to people standing up and applauding for him.

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He's not used to being in a courtroom, being treated like every other American. And I think it's demonstrated that Donald Trump thinks that he's above the law. He thinks that this whole process is beneath him and that he shouldn't have to go through it. And so it's certainly bothering him and he's frustrated.

ACOSTA: Yes. And you have to wonder if he's saying, well, I'll make that sacrifice and go to jail, why not take the witness stand? I mean, he's been a little squishy on that subject over the last several days. Do you think he does it? What do you think?

MATTHEWS: I have to imagine that his lawyers are telling him not to. Look, he would have to be questioned about things in relation to this and could potentially perjure himself. He claims that this affair never happened. I do believe that Stormy Daniels' testimony made her very credible in the sense that I think the jury is correct believes that this affair did happen, that this incident happened.

And so I don't think he'll end up taking the stand. I wouldn't imagine that would be wise because I think that he would certainly -- the prosecution would certainly get a reaction out of him and that wouldn't probably make him look good in the eyes of the jury.

ACOSTA: Yes. And I do want to ask you about this. I mean, what do you think about the classified documents case being postponed? We saw that news come out late yesterday. He complains about these two systems of justice. There's a system of justice for everybody else, he says, and there's one that's unfair towards him. But it seems like he's catching break after break in these federal cases. What do you think about the fact that, I mean, these federal cases may not happen before the election, and the only one we're going to see is this hush money trial?

MATTHEWS: Yes. As you said, he seems to be catching every break at every turn. This is the best case scenario for him right now. Look, I have always said that I believe out of all of the cases, the hush money payment case is the least consequential. And so the fact that voters are probably not going to see these trials on classified documents and January 6th happened before they had to the ballot box in November is quite disappointing, because I do think that those are the more substantive cases. The charges that he's facing are much more severe in those cases.

And so I do wish that voters would be able to have that knowledge heading into Election Day. But I think that right now this is best case scenario for them. And he seems to be the luckiest man on Earth.

ACOSTA: Yes, so far. All right.

MATTHEWS: So far, for being someone who's been multiple times indicted, you know, as lucky as you can be.

ACOSTA: How do you think the voters out -- I mean, female voters, how are women out there responding to these details coming out? I mean, just last night, 22 percent in Indiana went for Nikki Haley in that primary. A lot of people weren't paying attention to that, but 22 percent.

MATTHEWS: Yes, I think there's a lot of voters out there like me, a lot of Republicans, who really wish we had nominated someone like Nikki Haley. We wouldn't have to be dealing with all this ickyness of this trial. I mean, the details that came out yesterday were quite gross. I mean, I think most Americans are familiar with the case, but just being reminded of it again, it probably certainly isn't helping him with independent suburban women who he's going to need in a general election.

ACOSTA: All right. Sarah Matthews, thank you very much. I appreciate it. A lot of breaking news this morning, we're following breaking news out of Georgia. The appeals court in that state says it will consider Trump's effort to disqualify Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis from that election subversion case in Georgia.

CNN's Sara Murray joins me now. Sara, what are you learning?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, there's no doubt that this is a blow to the Fulton County District Attorney's Office. Obviously, Fani Willis, her staff, had hoped to put this whole disqualification issue behind them, but now the Georgia Court of Appeals says they will hear efforts by Donald Trump and some of his co-defendants in the case to try to have the lower court's opinion overturned, to try to disqualify Fani Willis from this prosecution.

Remember, the argument from Trump and his co-defendants is that Willis should have been removed in part because she had a romantic relationship with another prosecutor on the case, Nathan Wade, who has since resigned from this team, but also because of public comments she has made related to the case.

Now, the district attorney's office is not commenting on this matter today, but we did hear from Trump's attorney in Georgia, Steve Sadow, who called this an unjustified, unwarranted political persecution and said he looks forward to presenting arguments in the appeals court about why Fani Willis should be disqualified from the case and why the case should be dismissed entirely.

So, look, this is a pretty good day for Donald Trump. We obviously don't know how the Georgia Court of Appeals is going to handle this, but the fact that they can keep this disqualification issue alive in this case is a win for Trump's team.

ACOSTA: All right. Sara Murray, thanks for staying on top of it for us, very interesting development. I appreciate it.

Joining me now for more on all of this, former Federal Prosecutor and Defense Attorney Shan Wu and CNN Legal Commentator and former Trump White House Counsel Jim Schultz.

Shan, what do you make of the situation down in Georgia? What's going on?

SHAN WU, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It's a little bit surprising. It's ironic listening to his attorneys comment there. They're not taking it up because it's a political persecution. Possibly they're taking it up because of the question of the conflict of interest.

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And it's a discretionary take for them to actually exercise discretion and take it, so that keeps hope alive for the Trump team. I don't think they should have taken it because it seems clear to me that there, just by definition, can't be a financial conflict of interest when it's two people on the same side of the table.

ACOSTA: Might it potentially delay that election subversion case down in Georgia just having this hearing?

WU: Sure, it could.

ACSOTA: Absolutely. Let's go back to the Stormy Daniels testimony. Jim, I wanted to get your takeaway on all of this. Which side did Stormy Daniels help, do you think?

JIM SCHULTZ, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, on the prosecution side, they were trying to get out that, you know, through the salacious testimony that Donald Trump had every incentive prior to the election to kill this story, right? And I think on the other side, they effectively showed that Stormy Daniels is biased, that they elicited testimony that she thought he should be in prison and tweets that were consistent with that, that he should be punished, that she hates him.

All of those things kind of add up as trouble for the prosecution on that side of it. But I think the prosecution got out what they wanted to out of her testimony, which was, you know, this was stuff that Donald Trump didn't want to see public.

Now, on the other side of that, nobody -- I think it's kind of a given that Donald Trump didn't want it to be public. It was an affair with a porn star. That's something he wouldn't want to get out in the public eye. And even the judge recognized that the method by which they did it went a little too far.

ACOSTA: I mean, Jim, if you were working on this case with Trump, would you be worried about it in a volcanic eruption today?

SCHULTZ: No, I wouldn't be at all.

ACOSTA: Do you think he's going to behave himself?

SCHULTZ: I think, I think they're going to keep him sitting on his hands. I think if he got through the end of that trial, at the end of the of the testimony yesterday, did his public did his public speech, he's bid on his Truth Social today kind of commenting, I don't think he's going to comment on this one. There's no incentive for him to do it. He doesn't want to hear about it time and time again. He probably wants it to go away and move on to the next witness, quite frankly.

ACOISTA: Yes. Shan, I mean, what about what Jim was saying a few moments ago, I mean, and Sara Matthews was calling it icky and gross, did it get too icky and gross or do you think it was -- I mean, did the prosecution accomplish what they wanted to get out there?

WU: They did. And, I mean, I'm a former sex crimes prosecutor. It wasn't icky or gross to me. You see far more graphic details in actual sexual assault cases. This was putting out the facts of what happened. And to the extent that Trump's team is complaining about it now, they could have, as the judge pointed out, objected much more vigorously. They kind of wanted it to go out there so they could then claim, oh, this is too far over the bounds.

But I don't think that it was gratuitous. I don't think it was deliberately salacious. I mean, people characterize it that way because it's a sexual encounter, but it was effective in putting her story out there. And I think the cross has been -- his team continues, I think, to be rather ineffectual on cross the way that she approached -- Susan Necheles approached the cross. Extremely confrontational, and that's really not the way you would want to approach a witness like Stormy Daniels.

ACOSTA: Yes, we don't know how the jury is -- I mean, people are kind of surmising what they think the jury reaction is.

I mean, Jim, I did want to press you a little bit. I mean, this is a case about a hush money payoff to a porn star. It's not exactly going to be masterpiece theater. Doesn't the jury know that?

SCHULTZ: Look, yes, I think that's part of it. But I think that even the judge recognized. Of course the process, of course, the defense was objecting and they objected. They don't want to object too much because then that just brings more attention to the whole thing. But they did object. The judge pointed out they could have objected more, but he was making objections for them, which drew attention to the fact to the jury that they might've gone a little too far. And I'm sure --

ACOSTA: Would objected more?

SCHULTZ: There's going to be an instruction on that. I don't think I would have. I think in that particular matter, in that particular case, you kind of want to make your objections, let the testimony go on, make your objections, preserve them for appeal. And then if the judge is making them for you, let him make him for you. That's a little more effective.

ACOSTA: All right. Shan and Jim, thank you guys very much. I appreciate it.

Still ahead, RFK Jr., have you heard about this? He says, Dr. found a dead worm, yes, we're reading that correctly a dead worm inside his head, inside his brain and that it ate part of his brain Dr. Sanjay Gupta will join us ahead to explain what might have happened. We'll talk about that in just a little bit.

You're live in the CNN Newsroom.

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ACOSTA: Right now, teams from both Hamas and Israel are in Cairo attempting to broker a deal that could put an end to the fighting in Gaza and bring home Israeli hostages. Hamas says it's put a deal on the table, but Israel says there are still major gaps between what Hamas is offering and what it needs. All of this is happening as U.S. officials reveal they've hit pause, the pause button on a shipment of bombs to Israel over concerns they could be used in Rafah.

We're following the story with CNN's Jeremy Diamond in Jerusalem. Kylie Atwood is over at the State Department for us.

Jeremy, let me start with you. We know Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has met with the CIA director, Bill Burns, to discuss the negotiations. What's the latest?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. Both of those men meeting today in Israel for a high level meeting about the state of these negotiations and these negotiations are continuing on multiple fronts and at multiple levels.

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Not only that meeting today between the Israeli prime minister and the CIA director, the Mossad director also attending that meeting, I'm told, but also in Cairo, a working level Israeli delegation that has been there since yesterday continues to try and close the gaps between what Hamas has agreed to, the proposal that they have agreed to, versus the one that Israel had helped craft the Egyptian framework that we had been talking about for the better part of the last two weeks.

It's clear that one of the major sticking points in all of this is Hamas' demand that Israel commit to a permanent ceasefire as part of this agreement, and that is something that the Israeli government has refused to do so far.

And while all of these negotiations are playing out, Jim, what we're seeing is the Israeli military continuing this latest ground operation in Rafah, that southernmost city where nearly 1.5 million Palestinians are currently living.

The military operation in the eastern part of Rafah, the area around the Rafah border crossing, but the impact is certainly being felt. Dozens of people have been killed over the course of the last couple of days. The Israeli military has been pounding the area with artillery and airstrikes, and they say that they have killed dozens of Palestinian militants.

But this is having an impact on the humanitarian situation on the ground. The largest hospital in Rafah, Youssef al-Najjar, has been forced to close its doors as a result of this Israeli evacuation order that was issued on Monday, reducing the capacity of hospitals in Rafah. Multiple humanitarian aid groups that provide desperately needed food and shelter to Palestinians in Rafah are also having to suspend their operations, and these impacts could be felt even more in the coming days.

The Rafah border crossing remains closed at this hour. Nothing getting in or out for the second day in a row. The Kerem Shalom crossing, however, nearby, which has been closed since Sunday, it did reopen today. The Israeli government saying that trucks are being security screened and allowed into Gaza as of this afternoon.

ACOSTA: All right. Jeremy, thank you for that.

And Kylie over the State Department, the U.S. says it will not be sending previously agreed upon shipment of bombs, these very large munitions to Israel. What can you tell us about that? Is the administration trying to send a message?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Clearly, this demonstrates the tension between Israel and the United States right now with a U.S. official saying, as you said, Jim, that they are pausing what was a planned shipment of about 3,500 bombs, 2,000-pound bombs, 500-pound bombs set to go to Israel, not saying when those would go forward, but citing concerns about the damage that those bombs would have if they were used in densely populated areas.

And, of course, we know Rafah is one of those densely populated areas where Israel is beginning to carry out some strikes in a limited sense in the eastern part of Rafah and U.S. officials have obviously been concerned about an all out incursion into Rafah, saying that they vehemently oppose it because there just can't be a plan to protect, excuse me, the civilians there.

We should also note that the U.S. officials said that they are continuing to review future transfers of additional U.S. weapons to Israel. So, that's something for us to watch. And in the backdrop here, Jim, there's also a report that's due to Congress today. congressional sources tell us it's going to be slightly delayed, but it's the administration making a determination as to whether Israel is using U.S. weaponry in accordance with international humanitarian law.

They're also going to be making a determination as to whether Israel has impeded the delivery of humanitarian assistance into Gaza. Of course, U.S. officials have said Israel has made strides on that front, but they've also said that Israel needs to do more.

And it's important to note that we have reported on the fact that here at the State Department, there is not a unanimous view as to whether the assurances from Israel that they are using those weapons in accordance with international law are legitimate. So, the secretary of state is going to have to make that determination. This could very well put pressure on the Biden administration for future arms sales to Israel. It's something we'll continue to watch. Jim?

ACOSTA: All right. Kylie Atwood at the State Department, thank you so much.

For some analysis on all this, let's bring in Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt. He's the former assistant secretary of state for political and military affairs under President George W. Bush. General Kimmitt, great to have you.

What do you think the impact is? Kylie Atwood was just saying a few moments ago that the administration is frankly sending a message to the Israelis about hitting the pause button on these very large bombs that have been used as part of this Israeli operation in Gaza. What do you think?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, RETIRED FROM THE U.S. ARMY: Well, I'm quite surprised that this is the weapon system that they decided to hold up because these are very precise. [10:25:05]

Yes, they're very large, but they can hit the target with relatively little imprecision.

So what this does, in fact, if you take away these 3,500 precision weapons, then the Israelis are probably going to use far less accurate, far more dangerous, far less precise artillery grounds to make up for that. So, I don't really understand this decision.

ACOSTA: I mean, isn't it -- honestly, General, isn't this really a message about -- I mean, the president himself has described some of the bombing as indiscriminate, that the level of devastation in Gaza has permeated things politically here in the United States to a point where the administration feels like it has no choice when it comes to that level of destruction that you're seeing in Gaza. I mean, I suppose you have to think that this is guided by some domestic politics at this point.

KIMMITT: Oh, there's no doubt. And I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a hole placed on these weapons. I just think they're placing a hole on the wrong weapons. You don't do it with precision weapons, but you do it with imprecise weapons, like artillery shells.

Yes, about 75 percent of the infrastructure, the homes inside of Gaza have already been destroyed. But I think you're going to see a lot more if you're using dumb bombs, imprecise weapon systems, like artillery, rather than precision weapons, like the JDAM and small diameter bomb, now holding up.

ACOSTA: And, General Kimmitt, Israel is now taking control of the Gaza side of the Rafah crossing. The Israelis have said it's their stated goal to root out Hamas. But what about these concerns that have been expressed by a range of people across the world stage, that the Palestinian civilians in that area basically have nowhere to go, or if they do have somewhere to go, it is going to be a very difficult journey? What do you make of the potential humanitarian price that might be paid here if there's a large scale operation in that Rafah area?

KIMMITT: Well, there are two different blockages that we're talking about. First is what is called the Philadelphia Corridor, Rafah, which provides a border between Gaza and Egypt. And that is being blocked primarily to ensure that there are no troubles inside of Egypt. They have specifically requested that.

In terms of trying to herd the civilians, because that's the only way you can describe it, they are trying to herd the civilians into the promised humanitarian zones that Prime Minister Netanyahu committed to before a Rafah attacked, around Kerem Shalom -- excuse me, around Khan Younis, Deir al Balah.

The problem with that, of course, is it's too little to handle the number of refugees that we should be getting out of Rafah before a large-scale invasion happens.

ACOSTA: So, there could be big problems there, potentially?

KIMMITT: Well, there will be some people that get out, probably about one tenth of the civilians that do need to get out. There is food, water, shelter, medicine there, but they've only got about one tenth of the people on the move, the civilians on the move that need to be moving into those humanitarian areas.

ACOSTA: All right. General Kimmitt, thank you very much for your time this morning. I appreciate it.

KIMMITT: Sure.

ACOSTA: All right. We'll continue this conversation just ahead with Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California. He is standing by. We'll be talking with him in a few moments.

We'll be right back.

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