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Biden Says A.I. is the Most Significant Tech Development in History and A.I. Will Overtake Human Thinking; Joe Biden States We Have the Strongest Economy in the World; Biden Would Halt Some U.S. Weapons Shipments to Israel if Netanyahu Orders Major Invasion of Rafah; President Biden Says There's a Legitimate Right to Free Speech and Protest, but There's Not a Legitimate Right to Threaten Jewish Students; Biden Working With the Arab States on What Happens After Gaza War; New Streaming Bundle to Combine Max, Hulu and Disney+. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired May 09, 2024 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[02:00:30]

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world and to everyone streaming us on CNN Max. I'm John Vause. Just ahead here (INAUDIBLE) on Rafah expands. The U.S. president finally says enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Walking away from Israel's ability to wage war in those areas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: With one shipment of U.S. defensive weapons on hold, the President warns Israel have more delays in military assistance. Also ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: This is what Putin has to offer. And it's war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Vladimir Putin and Victory Day. How the Russian president tied his own blatantly rigged election when enter the country is revered celebrations of the defeat of Nazi Germany.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta. This is CNN NEWSROOM with John Vause.

VAUSE: For the first time, U.S. President Joe Biden has warned Israel will not be supplied with defensive weapons which could be used in the military operation on the southern Gaza City of Rafah. During an exclusive interview with CNN President Biden says the U.S. remains committed to Israel's security. But he's also concerned for the safety of more than a million displaced Palestinians now in Rafah on the orders of the Israeli military.

For days Rafah has been hit with airstrikes as well as tank and artillery fire. And Israel says seize control of the rougher border crossing on Monday. But the U.S. President says Israeli forces have not yet moved into the main population areas of Rafah. Last week, the White House pause shipments of 2000 pound and 500-pound bombs to Israel concerned about their use on population centers like Rafah.

Here's part of Joe Biden's exclusive conversation with CNN's Erin Burnett.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I made it clear that if they go into Rafah -- they haven't gone on Rafah yet. They go into Rafah. I'm not for playing the weapons that have been used historically to deal with Rafah, to deal with the cities, to deal with that problem. We're going to continue to make sure Israel is secure in terms of Iron Dome and their ability to respond to attacks like came out in the Middle East recently.

But it's wrong. We're not going to -- we're not going to supply the weapons and artillery shells used, have been used --

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHNOR: Artillery shells as well.

BIDEN: Yes. Artillery shells.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: CNN's Scott McLean following developments this hour. He is live for us in Istanbul. So, Scott, a couple of things here. Do we know what reaction there's been, you know, the real reaction, not the public reaction from Israeli officials? And also, what impact is it having on Israel's offensive in Russia which does seem to be expanding?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You're absolutely right. So publicly, John, to get that part out of the way. The IDF spokesperson Peter Lerner was asked this question on CNN yesterday, what impact this posit in weapons deliveries to Israel from the United States could have on the operation in Rafah and he sort of punted or deflected on the questions. The short answer is, we don't know.

Privately, we do know from a source familiar with the discussions that there is "deep frustration" taking place amongst Israeli officials who are expressing that very privately to their U.S. counterparts. Their argument is that look, the focus should be on Hamas, not on what weapons Israel is getting. And also, they argued that this could be potentially detrimental to the hostage negotiations at this point.

Those negotiations are sort of their ongoing but they are stalled at the moment. And the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is feeling pressure in a lot of different directions from his own more extreme elements of his coalition government that are wanting them to go further and faster into Rafah and obviously from those inside Israel, many of them who would rather him prioritize the hostages and now from the United States which is actually for the first time in this war conditioning aid, military aid to Israel and putting its money where its mouth is previously in this war, John.

You'll remember those threats coming from the President Biden saying, look, we want Israel to do better to protect civilians or, you know, that they seemed like rather empty threats because you've always stated that they were never going to cut off Israel from all weapons deliveries. Now, the message is much more clear that look, they want Israel to have what it needs to defend itself but they're not going to go along with what's taking place in Rafah.

And as you mentioned, that operation is expanding and we know this from satellite pictures. We know that there are troops not just on the border post with Egypt, which was taken on Monday but also a mile from that border post as well.

[02:05:05]

And there's also evidence that from the satellite pictures taken in the last few days, that there has been bulldozing taking place to allow for an area for IDF vehicles and equipment to be sort of marshaled in one area. And this is a familiar pattern that we have seen early on in the war as well. You saw the airstrikes, then you saw the troops move in and then you saw bulldozing of certain areas and that is what we are starting to see now there as well.

And the humanitarian impact on the ground is pretty great. We are seeing pictures from the aftermath of some of these airstrikes and frankly, they are hard to watch. You see people carrying children semiconscious or perhaps unconscious with various levels of injuries and inside the hospitals or what's left of the hospitals. It is chaotic to say the least, John.

VAUSE: Yes, Scott. Thank you. Scott McLean there for the very latest live from Istanbul. Thank you.

(INAUDIBLE) barrage of Russian missiles and attack drones have caused extensive damage to Ukraine's energy grid according to Ukrainian officials. Three Ukrainian power plants were targeted in the biggest Russian strike in weeks. On the same day, Ukraine celebrated victory over Nazi Germany. Residential homes in parts of Ukraine's rail network were also damaged. These three people were hurt.

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy use Victory Day to denounce what he called New Nazism. In the video released Wednesday from the basement of a school where 400 Ukrainians who were held captive by Russian forces, Zelenskyy compared the Russian invasion with Germany's occupation during World War II.

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VOLODYMR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): The world has slept through the revival of Nazism at 5:00 a.m. on February 24th, 2022. And today, everyone who remembers World War II and has survived to this day is experiencing deja vu. The Battle of Kyiv the bombing of Kharkiv, Odesa, Dnipro, mass graves, blockade of ports, plundering and seizure of grain, tortures, executions.

Russia has brought the terrible past back into the Daily News, proving with each new crime that Nazism has revived. Just this time, it has a new label, Made in Russia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Meantime, Russia will celebrate victory day in the coming hours. Live pictures now from Moscow. Events are expected to begin within the next hour or so, just on seven minutes past 9:00 there in Red Square. We'll appear for a speech with a newly inaugurated President Vladimir Putin who is not that man but does look similar. On Wednesday, Putin hosted a summit of Eurasian Economic Union, that's the former Soviet republics of Belarus, Armenia, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan.

Those leaders will attend the Victory Day celebration events in the coming hours as well. Putin has used the Victory Day rally speech to rally support and also to complain against the West, a long list of grievances. It never seems to end only seems to get longer.

Clare Sebastian is keeping an eye on all of this, joining us are live from London. OK. Things are look it up this year for Putin, especially when it comes to the war in Ukraine. Things have turned around, he's on top of things. Ukraine struggling. So how does that change what you sort of the best he has this Victory Day?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I think it is informative to make the comparison with last year of course, when Russia was had just gone through three successful Ukrainian counteroffensives, was still struggling to take the town of Bakhmut and of course staring in the face of a Ukrainian Spring Offensive which as we now know didn't really materialize into anything.

Significant this year, Russia has managed to take more territory in the past few months than at any point since the summer of 2022 because of the delay for Ukraine in receiving new U.S. aid, but that is now on the way. I think, look, will be a chance for Putin to project confidence case in point Russia has put on display ahead of Victory Day. Some examples of the sort of trophy weapons, it's calling them tanks, armored vehicles, things like that, that it's captured on the battlefield or claimed to have captured including, you know, main battle tanks from the U.S. and one Abrams Leopard tank.

This is causing quite a stir in Moscow. You can see those pictures there. It's about projecting that confidence. It's about reinforcing the rhetoric that we hear so consistently from Moscow that this is a war not with Ukraine, but with the collective west. So, I think we will hear a lot of that in Putin's -- what is expected to be as in previous years, relatively short speech. But look, on the other hand, we do see a trend that's happened since the war in Ukraine of a shrinkage in the size of the parade on Red Square. They're expecting according to the defense minister, some 9000 people to take part 70 pieces of weaponry or equipment that is less than we saw last year. Less even than the year before that likely because of the availability of those pieces of equipment, they are likely now in active service in Ukraine. On top of that, we do see that some border regions close to Ukraine have canceled parades because of security concerns. Obviously, consistently, we know -- we now see attacks across the border from Ukraine.

[02:10:08]

And there is a tradition in Russia to hold this march called the immortal regiment where people possess holding photos of relatives who died during the second world war. That has also been canceled for a second year. I think the comparisons with Ukraine perhaps, to unfavorable because of course, this is a conflict where by many estimates, more people have been killed than in all of Russia's post World War II military campaigns combined.

So, a bit of a delicate balancing act, John overall, but I think we will see Putin projecting that sense of competence. He of course, has just been inaugurated for a fifth term in office.

VAUSE: Yes. Incredible margin of victory he had in that election, Clare. One thing about the numbers that are actually taking part in this spread, the number of, you know, Russian forces, as you know, this year, less than the year before, which was less than ever before, which does seem to reflect what's actually happening on the battlefield is that the Russians may be making gains but they're coming at terrible costs, in terms of manpower and the number of losses which are happening, staggering losses day after day after day.

And it's a raises the question like how long can Russia sustain this loss of manpower on the front lines?

SEBASTIAN: Yes. Look, I think that is -- that is part of what makes this day a bit of a delicate balancing act. It is a good opportunity for Putin to foster the kind of patriotism needed to keep public support up for his war in Ukraine. Russia obviously lost some 27 million people, it was there in the Soviet Union during World War II. But obviously, that came with victory. So, I think that comparison on the one hand works in his favor.

But of course, the cancelling of that immortal regiment march speaks to another side of this. And it is the case, John, that despite the fact that Russia has made those gains on the battlefield, in recent months, they have not -- it's not been a route. This has not been a strategic success for Russia, that we're talking sort of villages, not even towns, they are making progress but it has, as you say, come at an enormous cost.

They are still able to bring men to the front, they are able to conscript people, and they do have a very large, regular army still but it is something that is pretty a major strain on society. And of course, the economy where a labor shortage is probably the biggest challenge that Russia is facing right now.

VAUSE: Clare, thank you. Clare Sebastian there. Some good insight into what's happening in Moscow. Clare, thank you.

Jill Dougherty is an adjunct professor at Georgetown University, a CNN contributor. She's also a former CNN bureau chief in Moscow. And it's good to see you once again. Welcome back, Jill.

DOUGHERTY: Hey, John, thank you.

VAUSE: In the coming hours, Putin is expected to make this public address for Victory Day. Very important day in Russia when they celebrate defeat of Nazi Germany. This year is a very different backdrop to last year when things weren't going so well in Ukraine. It's sort of turned around. Thanks to in large part that U.S. withholding military assistance for months. Are those weapons are yet to reach the battlefield?

But certainly, Russia has made gains in that period of time. So what will Putin's message me this year? It's not just to fellow Russians, but also to Ukraine and the rest of the world?

DOUGHERTY: I think what he's going to say to his fellow Russians, and to the world is victory. I mean, this is Victory Day in World War II. And I think right now, what you have really is kind of a mirror image or actually the same image that he's trying to portray the war in Ukraine and World War II, that this is the nation together, united. Unity is a very big theme that he will probably hit and the victory (INAUDIBLE)

And that I think the danger here is that the war which is extremely important World War II. 27 million Russians died. There is no doubt about that. But Putin is now turning World War II into really the definition of what Russians are. This has become, you know, a sacred idea and taken to an extreme level. So, it has turned Russia, I believe, into a very militaristic country right now, internally with a lot of repression, et cetera.

So, this is where we appear to be headed. That this is what Putin has to offer. And it's war.

VAUSE: Notably Ukraine, the same anniversary but a day earlier. The Ukrainian president Zelenskyy had very similar things to say about Nazism and fascism in Russia taking over. We also heard from a spokesperson for Russia's foreign ministry with us, how this war in Ukraine could deescalate? Here she is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIA ZAKHAROVA, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESPERSON (through translator): What is needed for de-escalation? Josep Borrell has already said it. He said that if you stop supplying weapons to the key of regime, how long did he say? Everything will be over in two weeks? Here's the true formula for peace, voiced by Westerners themselves. Here's a possible de-escalation. (END VIDEO CLIP)

[02:15:03]

VAUSE: That is truly world class spin. One person's de-escalation is another's capitulation. But does that statement in a way reflect any concerns in Moscow, possibly a renewed military assistance from the United States heading its way to Ukraine after being stalled for months in Congress?

DOUGHERTY: I think they're concerned about it. There's no question. That's a bit of trolling, obviously, that she has. But that is the position that Russia has. You know, everything is fine. If Ukraine simply gives up and then the war will be over. But this again, we get back to that point, that Putin at this point, the entire economy, society, the entire country right now is focused on one thing and that is war.

And Putin is depicted, it's very interesting. He's depicted as the leader of the country. But the Kremlin has succeeded in kind of separating him from the idea of war. He is now more of the symbol of the country. And so, people who want to support Russia tend to accept what he is doing with this war. But it does not necessarily mean that they support the war. So, the -- where we're going with this as it gets increasingly repressive, I think, is a big question mark.

VAUSE: Also, very quickly. His government is still serving Him. They weren't stepping down immediately once he was reelected, the inauguration was held. So where does that leave things right now?

DOUGHERTY: Oh, that's one of the most interesting things. You know, every time that the President starts over, proforma, the members of his cabinet stepped down. This time, they did not because they passed a law. And they're able to stay in their positions, at least temporarily. But it will be very, very interesting to see who Putin keeps and who he lets go. And one of the prime people will be the defense minister, Sergei Shoigu.

He is not very popular with the military. He doesn't come from the military, actually. So, who will be the core people around Putin? That is a bit one thing that everybody will be watching very carefully.

VAUSE: Jill, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Jill Dougherty there with the very latest stuff from Moscow. It was good analysis as well. Thank you.

DOUGHERTY: Thank you.

VAUSE: Coming up here on CNN. Tens of thousands of people in Brazil struggling to find safety, as the country deals with severe flooding. More on that in a moment.

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VAUSE: In the past week, record rainfall has triggered deadly flooding in southern Brazil. At least 95 people have died, more than 150,000 have been forced to leave their homes.

[02:20:00]

The government has responded with mass rescues. More than 46,000 people have been pulled from the rising waters. Desperate people also seeking shelter anywhere they can. Some deciding to camp out next to highways.

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ADAN MOREIRA DOS SANTOS, DISPLACED BY FLOODS (through translator): We're camping because there's no way we can stay in the water. There the water is almost three meters high. It's already covering the roofs. We're staying here because there's nowhere else to stay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: According to officials more than 100 million people have been -- more than one million people have been affected by the storms, also countless animals including a horse stranded on a roof. The rains have been linked to human caused global warming and El Nino which warms parts of the Pacific Ocean.

And media to autocrats in Hungary, Viktor Orban and China Xi Jinping in Budapest, the last leg of Xi's European tour. Two leaders are set for talks at a signing ceremony in the coming hours. Xi would like to deepen ties with Eastern Europe where Chinese companies as well as the government have invested billions of dollars as part of Beijing's Belt and Road Initiative. Earlier Wednesday, Xi and Serbia's President agreed on a shared future for their countries.

Signing more than two dozen trade and regulation agreements and vowing to continue their partnership.

In recent days, Germany has seen as serving surge in attacks on politicians. This past weekend a member of the European Parliament, a Social Democrat, was beaten and kicked so badly he needed surgery. His attackers are believed to be four teenagers with links to a far-right group. On Tuesday lawmaker and the Senator of Berlin in the city was struck in the head on a visit to a library. The suspect is a 74-year- old man previously charged with state security and hate crimes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANZISKA GIFFEY, BERLIN SENATOR AND FORMER MAYOR (through translator): I think it is worrying and it also shocks and upsets me that we have been seeing more and more attacks of this kind recently, that people are being attacked because of their political work because of their stance and attitudes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Attacks on politicians in Germany have doubled since 2019. The European Parliament elections, mainstream politicians blame the rise of the far-right Alternative for Germany party, which says its members have also faced increasing violence. Still out here. An exclusive conversation with the U.S. president. CNN's Erin Burnett sits down and asked Joe Biden about the war in Gaza, campus protests, about his rematch with Donald Trump and a whole lot more. Stay with us.

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[02:25:14]

VAUSE: Welcome back. Now to a CNN exclusive interview with the U.S. President Joe Biden. Erin Burnett asked the President Biden about his support for Israel. And for the first time, he detailed conditions on U.S. military aid and supply of U.S. offensive weapons. They also discussed his rematch with Donald Trump and also the number one issue for American voters this year. The economy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Mr. President, thank you so much for being with me.

BIDEN: Thanks for having me.

BURNETT: So, Trump attended a groundbreaking here where we are for Foxconn. He promised 13,000 jobs and only about 1000 of those actually exist right now. So, I know you're promising more than 2000 union construction jobs, and that 100,000 people are going to get trained in A.I. here. Why should people here believe that you will succeed at creating jobs where Trump failed?

BIDEN: He's never succeeded in creating jobs. And I've never failed. I've created over 15 million jobs since I've been president. 15 million in three quarters years. And secondly, Microsoft is a serious player. And they're very much engaged and making sure that they pick this area as a sort of the home base for their A.I. initiative in the nation. And they're going to -- they're going to do it. And just like -- and by the way, well, I shouldn't go into it.

But Trump has -- he already started off with a golden shovel, you know --

BURNITT: The groundbreaking here.

BIDEN: The groundbreaking and talked about this being, you know, eighth wonder in the world. What has he ever done anything he said? I'm not being facetious. Think about it. He started off, he lost the other than Herbert Hoover. He is the only other president lost more jobs and created in his four-year term. He's -- the way he managed the end of his last year when we deal with COVID million people died, he tell people inject bleach.

That man that may do it wasn't a real problem. When he did an interview with one of your colleagues, where he just flat out acknowledged, he knew how dangerous being want to speak to it. You know, it's -- I just - -and look at what he says he's going to do if he gets elected. He says you're going to do away with what I've done on Medicare, reducing the price of Medicare drastically.

He said he's going to do away with the Affordable Care Act. He says we're going to do this down the line. So, we have a very different view. I look at it from physician not being facetious from the scram perspective. He looks at from Mar-a-Lago perspective. He wants to give more significant tax cuts to the super wealthy. You know, we got 1000 billionaires in America, you know what their average federal taxes? 8.3 percent.

He talks about if I -- I want to raise it to 25 percent, that would raise -- I would raise $40 billion, $400 billion over 10 years. You can further reduce the deficit, which I've been able to do. It's just a completely different perspective on how we should proceed.

BURNETT: When it comes though, to the 100,000 jobs specifically that we're talking about here, people training in A.I., the actual jobs. When are they actually going to have jobs, those 100,000 people that are being trained?

BIDEN: Beginning probably the first tranche and three to four years. The community colleges are going to -- the one where -- who's going to provide for 2000 folks and to be able to be trained 200 a year. And it's going to go with that whole pipeline goes all the way through out to high schools and training facilities. You know, it used to be that when I was in high school, I mean, even at the tail end, very tail end before you went to high school.

We -- most public high schools had sharp and home, you know, learning to work with your hands doesn't exist anymore. And so, it allows people who have skills and be able to train to technical skills to be able to make a decent living without a college degree. And it's what we need.

BURNETT: So, when we talk about the bet on A.I. and sort of what it means, I don't know if you saw this weekend, Warren Buffett had his annual meeting and he talked about A.I. So the first thing he said was, OK, it's got enormous potential for good, but then he likened it to the development of nuclear weapons in the U.S. and he said, it scares the hell out of him. You know, he always says it like he sees it.

And then he says "he doesn't understand a damn thing about it." That may capture how many Americans feel. Does A.I. scare you?

[02:30:01]

BIDEN: A.I. has enormous potential enormous downside potential. That's why three years ago, I got together with the major architects of A.I., the different operations around the world. I met with them in Europe and here in the United States, and arranged all the way from one of the leaders saying it is real, it is going to take over human thinking, all the way folks who say, no, it's not a problem.

And so, that's why I set out certain standards that it has -- it can do no harm and we have to make sure we know how to do that. We have to make sure it is controlled and that's how -- that's how we -- how it -- it is the most significant I think technological development in human history.

BURNETT: The most significant in human history?

BIDEN: Yeah. Not in terms of war and peace, but in terms of being able to one leader in the A.I. community said to me, it is going to overtake human thinking and which is frightening.

BURNETT: Terrifying.

BIDEN: But the other most think it can be used everything from find cures for cancer to significantly increased productivity.

BURNETT: So when you talk about the economy, of course, it is by far the most important issue for voters. It is also true right now, Mr. President, that voters by a wide margin trust Trump more on the economy. They say that in polls. And part of the reason for that maybe the numbers and you're aware of many of these, of course. The cost of buying a home in the United States is double what it was, when you look at your monthly costs from before the pandemic, real income when you account for inflation is actually down since you took office, economic growth last week far short of expectations, consumer confidence maybe no surprise is near a two-year low.

With less than six months to go to Election Day, are you worried that you're running out of time to turn that around?

BIDEN: We've already turned it around. Look -- look, at the Michigan survey where 65 percent of the American people think they're in good shape economically. They think the nation is not in good shape, but they're personally in good shape. The polling data has been wrong all along. How many -- you guys do a poll at CNN, how many folks you have to call to get one response? The idea that we're in a situation where things are so bad that folks, I mean, we've created more jobs, we've made -- we're in a situation where people have access to good paying jobs. And the last I saw, the combination of the inflation -- the cost of inflation and all those things, that's really worrisome to people with good reason. That's why I'm working very hard to bring the cost of rentals down, to increase the number of homes that are available -- let me say it this way. When I started this Administration, people were saying there is going to be a collapse in the economy. We have the strongest economy in the world. Let me say it again, in the world.

BURNETT: Although GDP last week was far short of expectations.

BIDEN: Oh, it wasn't. Look, GDP still grew -- look at the response of the markets, overwhelmingly positive, overwhelmingly positive and one of the reasons why people feel good about it not being as strong as it was before is they believe that the Fed is going to respond.

BURNETT: They hope they're going to get a rate cut?

BIDEN: Yeah. Well, so -- but I mean, no president has had the run we've had in terms of creating jobs and bringing down inflation. It was 9 percent when I can to office, 9 percent. But look, people have a right to be concerned. Ordinary people, the idea that you bounce a check and you get $30 fee for bouncing the check, I changed that. You can't charge more than $8 for that. Or your credit card, your late payment, $35. I mean, there is corporate greed going on out there and it is got to be dealt with.

BURNETT: What about, I mean, but there is real pain. I mean, grocery prices are up 30 percent, more than 30 percent since the beginning of the pandemic. And people are spending more on food and groceries than they have at any time really in the past 30 years. I mean, that's a real day-to-day pain that people are feeling.

BIDEN: No. It really is and as real, but the fact is that if you take a look at what the people have, they have the money to spend. So, it angers them and angers me that you have to spend more. For example, the whole idea of this notion that Senator Casey talked about, shrinkflation, I think it was on your program.

BURNETT: Same price for smaller bottle of --

BIDEN: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: (Inaudible) they did a thing. You know it is like 20 percent less for the same price. That's corporate greed. That's corporate greed and we've got to deal with it, and that is what I'm working on.

BURNETT: I want to ask you about something happening as we sit here and speak, and that of course is Israel is striking Rafah. I know that you have paused, Mr. President, shipments of 2,000-pound U.S. bombs to Israel due to concern that they could be used in any offensive on Rafah. Have those bombs, those powerful 2,000-pound bombs, been used to kill civilians in Gaza?

BIDEN: Civilians have been killed in Gaza as a consequence of those bombs and other ways in which they go after population centers.

[02:35:00]

BIDEN: I made it clear that if they go into Rafah, they haven't gone into Rafah yet -- if they go into Rafah, I'm not supplying the weapons that have been used historically to deal with Rafah, to deal with the cities, to deal with that problem. We're going to continue to make sure Israel is secure in terms of Iron Dome and their ability to respond to attacks like came out of the Middle East recently, but it is just wrong. We're not going to -- we're not going to supply the weapons and artillery shells used --

BURNETT: Artillery shells as well?

BIDEN: Yeah, artillery shells.

BURNETT: So just to understand, what they're doing right now in Rafah, is that not going into Rafah as you --

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: No, they haven't gotten into the population centers, what they did is right on the border. And it is causing problems with right now, in terms of with Egypt, which have worked very hard to make sure we have a relationship and help. But I've made it clear to Bibi and the war cabinet, they're not going to get our support if in fact they go on these population centers. We're not walking away from Israel's security, we are walking away from Israel's ability to wage war in those areas.

BURNETT: So, it is not over your red line yet?

BIDEN: Not yet, but it is -- we've held up the weapons. We've held up the one shipment, that's an all shipment (inaudible). We held that up.

BURNETT: And I want to ask you one more thing, if I may. The images that people see out of Gaza are horrific. The U.N. is talking about some of these mass graves and the summary executions, that there has been evidence of torture. The images of children, it breaks anyone's heart to look at it. And obviously, we've seen that frustration here in the U.S. on college campuses.

And Mr. President, signs at college campuses, some say Genocide Joe. Any of us that have gone to those campuses, sometimes we hear that chant. Do you hear the message of those young Americans?

BIDEN: Absolutely, I hear the message. Look, two things. First of all, there's a legitimate right to free speech and protest. There's a legitimate right to do that, they have a right to do that. There's not a legitimate right to use hate speech. There's not a legitimate right to threaten Jewish students. There is not a legitimate right to block people access to class. That's against the law. That's against the law.

And so -- and if you look at the data, these demonstrations are real, but they're not new. I mean, look, and everybody has made a speech on the holocaust the other day. And I pointed out that, you know, it took seven decades to get to the place where after the holocaust occurred and there is still antisemitism. Look, what has happened. In seven weeks -- 70 -- I mean, what is happening? Everybody has sort of forgotten about what happened in Israel.

Those 1,200 young kids murdered. I saw pictures -- I went over there swiftly after. A mother and a daughter being roped together and then kerosene poured and burned to death. Not like that has happened in Jewish community since the holocaust. So, when I went over immediately after that happened, I said to Bibi, don't make the same mistake we made in America. We wanted to get Bin Laden and we'll help you get Sinwar. But we went into Afghanistan to -- it made sense to go get Bin Laden. It made no sense to try and unify Afghanistan. It made no sense in my view to engage in thinking that in Iraq, they had nuclear weapon. Don't make the same mistake. Focus, and we will help you focus on getting the bad guys. But -- and we've got to think through what is happening after Gaza, after this is over, who is going to occupy Gaza. I've been working with the Arab States. I won't match them, as I don't want to get him in trouble. But five leaders in the Arab community were prepared to help rebuild Gaza, prepared to help transition to a two-state solution.

BURNETT: To govern it?

BIDEN: Well, to maintain the security and peace while they're working out a Palestinian Authority that is real and not corrupt.

BURNETT: Mr. President, thank you very much. I appreciate your time today.

BIDEN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: That's CNN's Erin Burnett and her exclusive interview with the U.S. President, Joe Biden.

We finish here with a first -- for the first time, two media giants are offering a combined streaming bundle. A major move in trying to take market share from industry-leader Netflix. Warner Bros. Discovery, parent company of CNN, and Disney are hoping to launch (inaudible) in the United States in the coming months, which will see Disney+ and Disney's Hulu combined with Warner Bros. Discovery's Max in one package for the first time.

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VAUSE: The bundle which the companies call the best value in streaming. No word yet on pricing or when it may be offered internationally. With that commercial, thank you for joining us. I'm John Vause. Please stay with us. "World Sport" is up after a very short break. Then in 15 minutes, "CNN Newsroom" with continue with Max Foster in London at about 8 a.m. in the morning. See you tomorrow.

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