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CNN International: Deep Israeli Frustration Over U.S. Weapons Pause; Biden Talks Trump Rematch, Record on Job Creation. Aired 4:30- 5a ET

Aired May 09, 2024 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: One thousand pound and 500 pound bombs to Israel. A source says Israeli officials are deeply frustrated by their decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. COL. PETER LERNER, ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES SPOKESPERSON: While I understand that the concerns are raised, we have to understand that the war against Hamas is a legitimate war, a war that has to be conducted. It has to be conducted in accordance with international humanitarian law and the laws of non-conflict. We maintain that that is what we're doing, but we are determined to get rid of Hamas. Hamas have to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Israel's ambassador to the United Nations responded to Biden's comments on CNN saying it's clear that any limitation in Israel coming from its allies is interpreted by its enemies as something that gives them hope to succeed in their actions.

Meanwhile, Israeli airstrikes are taking a growing toll on the civilian population in Rafah. The Al-Kuwaiti hospital in the western part of the city reports at least four people were killed, more than two dozen wounded on Wednesday.

The U.N. estimates nearly 79,000 people have fled Rafah since Monday. Humanitarian aid groups are desperate for Israel to reopen its key border crossings to bring in fuel and other supplies, but the fighting is keeping them closed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMISH YOUNG, SENIOR EMERGENCY COORDINATOR FOR GAZA, UNICEF: What we're seeing and hearing on the ground here is the ongoing offensive and an increase certainly in aerial activity.

MATTHEW MILLER, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: We didn't actually see humanitarian assistance move through Kerem Shalom because of logistical and security concerns on the ground.

STEPHANE DUJARRIC, SPOKESPERSON FOR THE U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: The situation remains extremely fluid and we continue to confront a range of challenges, including active military operations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: The apparent lack of progress on a ceasefire deal has sparked more protests from the families of the remaining Israeli hostages. They clashed with police on Wednesday night in Tel Aviv. At least two people were arrested, two officers were slightly injured.

CNN's Scott McLean is following developments. What do you know about Israel's response then to those extraordinary comments from President Biden?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so Max, privately we understand from Israeli officials that they are telling their U.S. counterparts of their, quote, deep disappointment of the move. They say that it could jeopardize hostage negotiations at a pretty critical moment. That's privately.

Publicly, we've just heard, as you mentioned, from the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations who said in an interview with Israel's public broadcaster, quote, that the pause may be preventing Israel or at least significantly harming Israel's ability to achieve one of the main goals of this war, which is the overthrow of the Hamas government.

Now he says that the U.S. doesn't have bad intentions but could provide a morale boost to Hamas. And look, throughout the course of this war, the United States message to Israel over and over again has been pretty firm that it needs to do more to protect civilians inside of Gaza.

But it has never put any firm conditions on that until now. So now you have this shipment of 3,500 bombs, about half of them are those 2,000 pound, extremely deadly, not anything resembling a precision weapon that has been put on hold. And the status of it, we frankly just do not know.

But the message from the United States is pretty clear though, that look, we will make sure that Israel has everything that it needs defensively, but offensively, we're not going to go along with what's happening in Rafah without any kind of a clear plan to get civilians out of the way.

What impact ultimately will this pause have? The IDF spokesperson sort of deflected that question yesterday, you heard him there, going on to defend Israel's actions inside Gaza. And frankly, the Israelis may be soon doing even more defending of their actions and whether or not they're within international law.

Because yesterday, Max, was the deadline for the U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken to present a report to Congress, which answered the question of whether assurances given by Israel that U.S. weapons that they're using are being used within according to law, whether those assurances are accurate and reliable.

That deadline has come and gone. The State Department says that the report will be released within the coming days. And surely a lot of people will be watching it closely because we know that there have been some internal disagreements within the State Department, some people who seriously doubt that those weapons are being used within the letter of international law. And if the report does in fact find that surely this will set off a pretty furious reaction from the Netanyahu government.

And ultimately, it may answer that question as to what will happen with this shipment of weapons, which at the moment is sort of hanging in limbo -- Max.

FOSTER: Away from the weapons and how that might weaken Israel. It's the diplomatic isolation here, which could be almost more damaging longer term.

[04:35:00]

MCLEAN: Precisely, because we have already seen this trend of even Israel's Western allies, some of them pausing shipments of weapons. Obviously, Israel is still getting weapons from a handful of them. The biggest backer obviously is the United States.

But if that flow were to be cut off, this would be a very different situation. And surely Israel would need to play by a different set of rules. And, you know, you heard in that interview with President Biden, he also discussed what happens the day after. And the day after plan that Israel has put forward at this moment looks vastly different than what the rest of the region is discussing and what the rest of the region is hoping for, which is a pathway to a two state solution.

And so perhaps that could put more pressure on Israel to do more to actually work toward that goal and work with some of the regional partners to actually get it done -- Max.

FOSTER: OK, Scott in Istanbul. Thank you.

In Dublin, Ireland, Trinity College has agreed to divest from Israeli companies by next month. Following demands from student protesters there, the move comes after successful talks between anti-war protesters and the university's senior management. Protesters had set up tents on the campus last week and blocked access to the Book of Kells, a popular tourist attraction at the college. A statement from the prestigious school says one Israeli company will remain until March next year because of contractual reasons.

Still ahead, an exclusive conversation with Joe Biden. CNN's Erin Burnett asked the U.S. president about the war in Gaza, campus protests and his rematch with Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: And now to our CNN exclusive. CNN's Erin Burnett interviewed U.S. President Joe Biden. They talked about the war in Gaza.

For the first time, Mr. Biden laid out conditions on U.S. military aid to Israel. They also discussed his rematch with Donald Trump and the number one issue for American voters, which is still the economy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Mr. President, thank you so much for being with me.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thanks for having me.

BURNETT: So Trump attended a groundbreaking here, where we are, for Foxconn. He promised 13,000 jobs, and only about 1,000 of those actually exist right now.

So I know you're promising more than 2,000 union construction jobs and that 100,000 people are going to get trained in AI here. Why should people here believe that you will succeed at creating jobs where Trump failed?

BIDEN: He's never succeeded in creating jobs and I have never failed. I have created over 15 million jobs since I have been president, 15 million in three-and-three-quarters years.

And, secondly, Microsoft is a serious player.

[04:40:00]

And they're very much engaged in making sure that they pick this area as sort of the home base for their AI initiative in the nation. And they're going to do it, and just like -- and, by the way -- well, I shouldn't go into it.

But Trump has -- he started off with the golden shovels, you know --

BURNETT: For the groundbreaking here.

BIDEN: For the groundbreaking.

BURNETT: Yes.

BIDEN: And talked about this being, you know, the eighth wonder of the world.

When has he ever done anything he said? I'm not being facetious. Think about it. He started off, he lost -- other than Herbert Hoover, he's the only other president who lost more jobs than created in his four- year term. He's -- and the way he managed the end of the -- his last year when we were dealing with COVID.

A million people died. He would tell people, inject bleach, and that may do it, it wasn't a real problem, when he did an interview with one of your colleagues where he just flat out acknowledged he knew how dangerous it was, but he didn't want to speak to it.

You know, it's a -- I just -- and look at what he says he's going to do if he gets elected. He says he's going to do away with what I have done on Medicare, reducing the price of Medicare drastically. He said he's going to do away with the Affordable Care Act. He said he's going to do it -- and just down the line. So we have a very different view.

I look at it from a position -- not being facetious -- from a Scranton perspective. He looks at it from a Mar-a-Lago perspective. He wants to give more significant tax cuts to the super wealthy. You know, we have got 1,000 billionaires in America. You know what their average federal tax is? 8.3 percent.

He talks about if I -- I want to raise it to 25 percent. That would raise, that would raise $40 billion, $400 billion over 10 years. We can further reduce the deficit, which I have been able to reduce.

I mean, it's just a completely different perspective on how we should proceed.

BURNETT: When it comes, though, to the 100,000 jobs specifically that we're talking about here, people training in AI, the actual jobs, when are they actually going to have jobs, those 100,000 people that are being trained?

BIDEN: Beginning probably in the first tranche in three to four years.

The community colleges are going to, the one we're at, we're going to provide for 2,000 folks, and to be able to be trained, 200 a year. And it's going to go -- the whole pipeline goes all the way throughout to high schools and training facilities.

You know, it used to be that, when I was in high school, even at the tail end, or the tail end, before you went to high school, we -- most public high schools had shop and home -- you know, that you learned to work with your hands. It doesn't exist anymore.

And so it allows people who have skills and be able to train technical skills to be able to make a decent living without a college degree. And it's what we need.

BURNETT: So when we talk about the bet on AI and sort of what it means, I don't know if you saw, this weekend, Warren Buffett had his annual meeting, and he talked about AI.

So the first thing he said was, OK, it's got enormous potential for good. But then he likened it to the development of nuclear weapons in the U.S. and he said it scares the hell out of him. You know he always says it like he sees it.

And then he says, quote, he doesn't understand a damn thing about it.

And that may capture how many Americans feel. Does AI scare you?

BIDEN: AI has enormous potential and enormous downside potential. That's why, three years ago, I got together the major architects of AI who did different operations around the world. I met with them in Europe and here in the United States. And it ranges all the way from one of the leaders saying it's a real -- it's going to take over human thinking, all the way to folks who say, no, it's not a problem.

And so that's why I set out certain standards that it has -- it can't -- can do no harm. And we have to make sure we know how to do that. We have to make sure it's controlled. And that's how -- that's going to -- and how we -- how it -- it's the most significant, I think, technological development in human history.

BURNETT: The most significant in human history?

BIDEN: Yes, not in terms of war and peace, but in terms of being able to -- one leader in the AI community said to me, it's going to overtake human thinking, and -- which is frightening.

BURNETT: Terrifying.

BIDEN: But the other -- most think it can be used for everything from find cures for cancer to significantly increase productivity.

BURNETT: So when you talk about the economy, of course, it is by far the most important issue for voters. It's also true right now, Mr. President, that voters by a wide margin trust Trump more on the economy. They say that in polls. And part of the reason for that may be the numbers. And you're aware of many of these, of course.

[04:45:00]

The cost of buying a home in the United States is double what it was, when you look at your monthly costs, from before the pandemic. Real income, when you account for inflation, is actually down since you took office. Economic growth last week far short of expectations. Consumer confidence, maybe no surprise, is near a two-year low.

With less than six months to go to Election Day, are you worried that you're running out of time to turn that around?

BIDEN: We have already turned it around. Look, look at the Michigan survey, where 65 percent of the American people think they're in good shape economically. They think the nation's not in good shape, but they're personally in good shape.

The polling data has been wrong all along. How many -- you guys do a poll at CNN. How many folks you have to call to get one response? The idea that we're in a situation where things are so bad, the folks that -- I mean, we have created more jobs. We have made -- we're in a situation where people have access to good-paying jobs.

And the last I saw, the combination of the inflation, the cost of inflation and all those things, that's really worrisome to people, with good reason. That's why I'm working very hard to bring the cost of rentals down, to increase the number of homes that are available.

But let me say it this way. When I started this administration, people were saying there's going to be a collapse of the economy. We have the strongest economy in the world. Let me say it again, in the world.

BURNETT: Although GDP last week was far short of expectations.

BIDEN: Oh, it wasn't -- look, GDP's still growing. Looking at the response of the markets, overwhelmingly positive, overwhelmingly positive.

And one of the reasons why people feel good about it, not being as strong as it was before, is they believe that the Fed's going to respond.

BURNETT: They hope they're going to get a rate cut.

BIDEN: Yes. Well, so -- but, I mean, no president's had the run we have had, in terms of creating jobs and bringing down inflation. It was 9 percent when I came to office, 9 percent.

But look, people have a right to be concerned, ordinary people. The idea that you bounce a check and you get a $30 fee for bouncing the check, well, I changed that. You can't charge more than eight bucks for that. Or your credit card, your late payment, $35. I mean, there's corporate greed going on out there. And it's got to be dealt with.

BURNETT: What about -- I mean, but there's real pain. I mean, grocery prices are up 30 percent, more than 30 percent since the beginning of the pandemic, and people are spending more on food and groceries than they have at any time really in the past 30 years. I mean, that's a real day-to-day pain that people feel.

BIDEN: No, no, it really is. And it's real. But the fact is that, if you take a look at what people have, they have the money to spend. It angers them and angers me that you have to spend more.

For example, the whole idea of this notion that Senator Casey talked about, shrinkflation. You -- I think you always, on your program...

BURNETT: Same price for a smaller bottle of juice or something.

BIDEN: Yes, right, for example, Snickers bar, they did a thing, and it's like 20 percent less for the same price. That's corporate greed. That's corporate greed. And we have got to deal with it. And that's what I'm working on.

BURNETT: I want to ask you about something happening as we sit here and speak. And that, of course, is Israel is striking Rafah.

I know that you have paused, Mr. President, shipments of 2,000 pound U.S. bombs to Israel due to concern that they could be used in any offensive on Rafah. Have those bombs, those powerful 2,000 pound bombs, been used to kill civilians in Gaza?

BIDEN: Civilians have been killed in Gaza as a consequence of those bombs and other ways in which they go after population centers.

And I made it clear that, if they go into Rafah -- they haven't gone into Rafah yet. If they go into Rafah, I'm not supplying the weapons that have been used historically to deal with Rafah, to deal with the cities, to deal with that problem.

We're going to continue to make sure Israel is secure, in terms of Iron Dome and their ability to respond to attacks like came out of the Middle East recently. But it's -- it's just wrong. We're not going to supply the weapons and the artillery shells used -- that have been used --

BURNETT: Artillery shells as well?

BIDEN: Yes, artillery shells.

BURNETT: So, just to understand, what they're doing right now in Rafah, is that not going into Rafah, as you define it?

BIDEN: No, they haven't gone into the population centers. What they did is right on the border. And it's causing problems with -- right now, in terms of with Egypt, which I have worked very hard to make sure we have a relationship and help. But I have made it clear to Bibi and the war cabinet they're not going to get our support if in fact they're going into these population centers.

We're not walking away from Israel's security.

[04:50:00]

We're walking away from Israel's ability to wage war in those areas.

BURNETT: So it's not over your red line yet?

BIDEN: Not yet. But it's -- we have held up the weapons. We have held up the one shipment that is an old shipment that has been designed for -- but we held that up.

BURNETT: And I want to ask you one more thing if I may.

The images that people see out of Gaza are horrific. The U.N. is talking about some of these mass graves and the summary executions that there's been evidence of torture. The images of children, it breaks anyone's heart to look at it.

And, obviously, we have seen that frustration here in the U.S. on college campuses. And, Mr. President, signs at college campuses, some say "Genocide Joe." Any of us that have gone to those campuses, sometimes, we hear that chant.

Do you hear the message of those young Americans?

BIDEN: Absolutely, I hear the message.

Look, two things. First of all, there's a legitimate right to free speech and protest. There's a legitimate right to do that. And they have a right to do that. There's not a legitimate right to use hate speech. There's not a legitimate right to threaten Jewish students. There's not a legitimate right to block people access to class.

That's against the law. That's against the law. And so -- and if you look at the data, these demonstrations are real. But they're not nearly -- I mean, look -- and everybody's -- I made a speech on the Holocaust the other day. And I pointed out that, you know, it took seven decades to get to the place where after the Holocaust occurred, and there's still antisemitism. Look what's happened in seven weeks, seven -- 70 -- I mean, what's happening.

Everybody's sort of forgotten about what happened in Israel, those 1,200 young kids murdered. I saw pictures. I went over there shortly after, a mother and a daughter being roped together and then kerosene poured and burned to death. Nothing like that has happened to the Jewish community since the Holocaust.

So, when I went over immediately after that happened, I said to Bibi, don't make the same mistake we made in America. We wanted to get bin Laden, and we will help you get Sinwar.

But we went into Afghanistan to -- it made sense to go get bin Laden. It made no sense to try and unify Afghanistan. It made no sense, in my view, to engage in thinking that, in Iraq, they had a nuclear weapon. Don't make the same mistake. Focus on -- and we will help you focus on getting the bad guys.

But -- and we have got to think through, what is happening after Gaza, after this is over? Who's going to occupy Gaza?

I have been working with the Arab states. I won't mention them because I don't want to get them in trouble, but five leaders in the Arab community. We're prepared to help rebuild Gaza, prepared to help transition to a two-state solution.

BURNETT: To govern it?

BIDEN: Well, to maintain the security and peace while they're working out a Palestinian Authority that's real and not corrupt.

BURNETT: All right, well, Mr. President, thank you very much. I appreciate your time today.

BIDEN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: President Biden, speaking to Erin Burnett, that was an exclusive.

Now, the Olympic torch sails into France ahead of the upcoming summer games, but it still has a long way to go before it arrives at the opening ceremony, which is in July. Details ahead.

[04:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: The former interpreter of Shohei Ohtani has agreed to plead guilty to stealing millions of dollars from the Los Angeles Dodgers star. The U.S. Justice Department says he will plead guilty to one count of bank fraud and one count of filing a false tax return. Prosecutors say he used Ohtani's password to sign in and transfer nearly $17 million to his own account and impersonated him around 24 times on the phone with the bank.

The Justice Department says he used the millions to pay off illegal gambling debts and other expenses. He faces up to 33 years in prison and possible deportation if convicted.

The Denver Nuggets may be fighting for their lives in their NBA playoff series against Minnesota, but their center, Nikola Jokic, has a reason to celebrate.

He's been named the league's most valuable player for the third time in the past four seasons. The Serbian superstar averaged 26 points, 12 rebounds, 9 assists per game this season. Jokic thanks his teammates and coaches, saying, without them, I'm nothing.

The Infant Flame is in France with the start of the Paris Games, about two and a half months away now. The torch arrived in the port city of Marseille on Wednesday after a 12-day journey from Greece. It was carried aboard an historic French sailing ship.

In the coming days and weeks, the torch will be carried in a relay by thousands of people before arriving in Paris on July the 26th. It will remain there until the closing ceremony two weeks later. The flame will also be used at the Paralympic Games, which begin in late August.

SpaceX is unveiling a new suit for the first ever commercial spacewalk. The extra vehicular activity suit is for both pressurized and unpressurized environments. A 3D printed helmet incorporates a new visor to reduce glare and a camera that provides information including the suit's pressure and temperature.

SpaceX plans to use the new suits during a Polaris Dawn mission into orbit. That could happen in just a few months.

Thanks for joining me here on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Max Foster in London. CNN "THIS MORNING" is up next after a quick break.

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