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CNN International: Fmr. Trump "Fixer" Michael Cohen Expected To Testify Monday; Trump In Court After Heated Cross-Examination Of Stormy Daniels; Biden-Netanyahu Ties Tested After Stark U.S. Warning. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired May 10, 2024 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
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RAHEL SOLOMON, HOST, CNN NEWSROOM: Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York. Right now, the United Nations General Assembly is deciding whether or not to give their stamp of approval to a Palestinian bid for full membership. We are following this closely as it happens. We're also watching developments in Rafah. It seems that the Israeli Prime Minister is undeterred by U.S. President Biden's decision to pause the shipment of some weapons to its ally. This as aid workers keep warning of unprecedented levels of emergency in Gaza.
JIM SCIUTTO, HOST, CNN NEWSROOM: Yes. That UN vote significant. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, where we also continue to track developments in Donald Trump's hush money trial. We've just learned when exactly another major witness in this case will appear. We'll give you an update just ahead.
The breaking news today coming out of the hush money trial is what will happen on Monday. CNN has learned that former Trump fixer and lawyer, Michael Cohen, a key prosecution witness, will take the witness stand on Monday, after the weekend. Cohen's testimony is expected to last several days, including cross-examination. Trump's former attorney is at the center of this case. He made the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels to kill that story of an alleged affair right before the 2016 election.
Former Trump personal aide Madeleine Westerhout finished her testimony in just the last hour. On Thursday, she testified that the leaders of the Republican National Committee were rattled by the release of the Access Hollywood tape, and briefly considered replacing Donald Trump on the 2016 presidential ticket. All that before the decision to pay the money to kill the Stormy Daniels story.
Joining us now, Michael Zeldin, former federal prosecutor, the host of "That Said With Michael Zeldin" podcast. Michael, good to have you on.
MICHAEL ZELDIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, first, let's begin with what is probably the last, if you want to say, star witness, but one of the most significant witnesses in the trial. What does the prosecution need from Michael Cohen on the stand and what doesn't it need from him?
ZELDIN: Well, they don't need a tie rate (ph) from Cohen. Cohen, over the past years, has been all over social media, ranting and raving. They do not need that as a Michael Cohen witness. What they need for Michael Cohen is direct evidence of his communications with Donald Trump about the payment of the hush money and Trump's knowledge and approval of it. We've had a lot of compelling evidence that is circumstantial, that you can ask yourself, does it make sense that Trump wouldn't know about these monies and these payments and its purpose? Cohen is the one who can say he has direct knowledge of this because he and Trump spoke. So, that's what they're looking for.
SCIUTTO: You have noted that prosecutors need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump falsified the business records about this hush money payment with the intent to commit or conceal another crime. They don't have to prove that crime, but they have to prove his intent here. Has the prosecution done that?
ZELDIN: I think they have enough material here to argue that, for sure, because of the fire drill that seemed to have taken place after Access Hollywood, where everyone said, oh my goodness, we really need to make sure there is no other eruption of this sort, and they started this plan to pay Stormy Daniels, a person who they weren't interested in paying just a year or two before. Now, all of a sudden, it's a hurricane of activity to pay her. So, I think you can infer from that that absolutely this was with the intent to prevent its influencing the outcome of the election.
On the other hand, the defense has a few points to argue that he was also concerned or primarily concerned, will be their argument, with Melania and Barron and the impact on the family. So, each side will get what it needs to argue. But, I think the weight of the evidence suggests that this was undertaken to impact the outcome of the election.
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SCIUTTO: OK. Now, on Stormy Daniels, also of course a significant witness, did the prosecution get what they needed from her testimony, and do you feel that the cross-examination undermined that or perhaps went too far, too personal, in the eyes of the jury?
ZELDIN: So, I think Stormy Daniels did a couple of things. For herself, she humanized herself. She said, this is who I am. This is how I grew up. And yes, I did this business that maybe many people don't like, but that was my choice. And so, I think that helps her in terms of her overall reputation in this case. In respect of the prosecution need for her, what she said was important, which was that my story, which was languishing, took on value after Access Hollywood. So, she confirms that while she has this story for a number of years, no one is interested in it. Access Hollywood hits and all of a sudden she is the most popular kid in town with a story to sell that they want to suppress. So, I think that was very important from the prosecution standpoint. From the defense standpoint, she has got some issues that relate to
the consistency in her story and perhaps a motive. But, I think in the very end, the second day of cross-examination, I thought the defense hurt itself. I think they should have not gone back at her, because I think they went after her in a very disparaging way that I would expect the jurors would find reprehensible in a way.
SCIUTTO: And is it your view that that was with a legal intent on the part of the defense or an intent to please their client?
ZELDIN: I think the latter, because I think when she finished her testimony on Tuesday, everyone had everything they needed. The prosecution argue value after Access Hollywood. The defense could argue motive, inconsistency. And that's all they needed. So, when they came back and asked if you will question too many, I think it was because President Trump must have said to the lawyers, you need to go after her more. You got to attack her more, because -- and that's, I think, (inaudible) by the fact that, what did they do at the end of the case? They asked for a permission to change the gag order so we could go after her on social media. So, I think that was the problem that defense lawyers had that they had to listen to their client. He is the boss, and I think he heard his case --
SCIUTTO: Well, listen --
ZELDIN: -- which is why he won't testify.
SCIUTTO: It fits with a quite a public pattern of the former President to attack women who have, well, either criticized him or discussed alleged affairs with him, to attack them quite personally and sometimes in quite offensive term. Michael Zeldin, always good to have you on.
ZELDIN: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, send you back -- I will send it back to you in New York for latest developments in Gaza, which were significant.
SOLOMON: Yeah. Absolutely. Jim, thank you. We'll get back to you soon.
Happening right now, Palestinians reviving their bid to become a full member of the United Nations. Today, the General Assembly is debating a measure that could give the Palestinians a boost in their statehood status at the UN. Now, if it is approved by the 193-member assembly, it would grant it some new rights at the UN. But, it's not the same as full membership, which requires the approval of the 15-member Security Council.
Joining us now is CNN's Nic Robertson, who is live in London. So, Nic, give us a sense of what's happening right now. Last I heard just about 10 minutes ago, Israel was speaking, the Israeli representative, even holding up a picture of Yahya Sinwar, one of the leaders of Hamas. Give us a sense of what we've heard today and what's happening right now.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah. The Israeli representative as well held up the UN Charter from 48 years ago and said, look, you're trashing this. You really berated the UN for considering allowing the Palestinian state question to get debated. He likened it to the modern day Nazi as a terrorist state. And that was everything that the UN was supposed to be opposed to it. So, it was a very strong speech, a hammer strong speech by the Palestinian representative, before him, and of course, the proposal put forward to the General Assembly by the UAE, who among the countries bringing the proposal forward.
So, the proposal would give them the right to speak on topics at the UN that are not just about Palestine or the Middle East. They will be allowed to propose topics for discussion and to give response during discussion as well. But, that's a far cry from full membership. What this is really doing, the thrust here, is to push this question of Palestinian membership, full membership, at the UN back to the Security Council, where it was rejected in a vote in April where the United States vetoed a vote, 12 states, including Russia, you see Russia's representative there speaking, including Russia voted for it.
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Two countries, UK and Switzerland, abstained. But, of course, one veto at the Security Council is enough to block it. But, at the General Assembly, with 193 votes in play, there are no vetoes. It's a two thirds majority that will carry the decision. So, this is an effort, and the U.S. Representative, Deputy Ambassador, yesterday said that, and this was a tone taken by the Israeli representative today. What's happening here is an effort to circumvent the normal process by allowing countries to become full members of the UN. I think the expectation here is potentially that there will be a two thirds majority. This is a very, very contentious topic, and we have 109 speakers listed. We're on the fourth one. Now, it's not clear precisely when the vote will come.
SOLOMON: I see. Well, OK. So, we may be in store for many more speeches ahead. Nic Robertson, don't go far. Thank you so much. We'll continue to monitor it.
Meantime, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says that, if it is forced to, Israel will, quote "stand alone in its campaign to wipe out Hamas in Gaza, even if it means fighting with its fingernails." This comes after U.S. President Joe Biden said that he would halt some weapons shipments to Israel if it launches a major offensive in the southern city of Rafah. Appearing on an American talk show, Mr. Netanyahu said that he hopes the two leaders can find common ground. Listen.
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BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I've known Joe Biden for many years, 40 years and more. We often had our agreements but we've had our disagreements. We've been able to overcome them. I hope we can overcome them now.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SOLOMON: Meantime, ceasefire talks are on pause, but operations in Rafah continue with Israel carrying out airstrikes in the city's east overnight. The UN warns the situation in Gaza quote "has reached even more unprecedented levels of emergency". It says that crossings into Rafah remain closed, cutting off access to fuel supplies and humanitarian staff. Tens of thousands of people have fled the city since Monday, as the threat of a potential full-scale Israeli assault looms.
Let's bring in now Jeremy Diamond, who is in Jerusalem, for the latest on all of this. Jeremy, I want to talk a little bit more about the back and forth we've heard from Netanyahu and Biden. In that interview, Netanyahu talked about his long relationship with Biden, 40 years. He talked about the agreements. He talked about the disagreements. What seems so notable, though, about this moment is that the disagreements are becoming more public. The critical language is becoming more public.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. No question about it. I mean, this is a 40-year relationship with a lot of ups and downs before the war started, before October 7. You did see that that relationship was pretty low over Netanyahu's attempts to carry out a judicial reform package here in Israel with President Biden very vocally opposing that notion. You then saw the relationship once again at its peak, perhaps, in the initial weeks and months following October 7, as President Biden offered his full throated support for Israel's war against Hamas in Gaza.
But, as of late, we have watched as the U.S. criticism has grown and hit really an inflection point this week with President Biden issuing that very public threat to stop certain weapons shipments to Israel if Israel moves ahead with an all-out ground offensive in Rafah. And Netanyahu, in his response, isn't indicating in any way that he is going to change tactics, that he is going to change direction as far as the military offensive in Rafah is concerned because of President Biden's opposition. Instead, what we are hearing from the Israeli Prime Minister is a lot of defiance and bluster and insistence that Israel will stand alone if it needs to, will even fight, as he said, with its fingernails, if that is all that Israel has left.
We know that the Israeli security cabinet met yesterday evening to discuss the future of these operations. And as of now, every indication is that a military operation by the Israeli military in Rafah will indeed continue to expand. And we have, of course, already seen the enormous impacts that that operation is having on the ground. One of only three partially functioning hospitals in Rafah has been forced to close, as it fell within that evacuation zone in eastern Rafah. That leaves just two partially functioning hospitals in Rafah.
And I was actually just speaking with some doctors at one of those hospitals, who make very clear that there -- this is an enormous moment of uncertainty for the people of Rafah, for healthcare facilities in Rafah. And of course, in addition to that, they are also running low on fuel with hospitals in Rafah, but also in central Gaza, warning that they could run out of fuel in just the coming days, the fuel that helps power those critically needed generators for those hospitals to continue operating. So, a moment of tremendous uncertainty as well as a moment of incredible tension between the United States and Israel.
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SOLOMON: And as the UN says, even more unprecedented levels of emergency. Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much. We'll talk again soon.
Well, the Eurovision competition is supposed to unite people through music, but one contestant is dividing many fans. Coming up, a look at calls to ban one singer from Saturday's finals. Plus, an exclusive look inside a shadowy Israeli desert prison where a growing number of Palestinians are being held amid reports of widespread abuse.
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SOLOMON: Welcome back. It's a competition that's supposed to unite Europe through music, but this year's Eurovision competition is instead proving to be a bit divisive. The Israeli competitor has made it through to Saturday's finals despite calls for the singer to be banned. Now, it would not be the first time a ban has happened. Russia has been banned since 2022 due to its invasion of Ukraine. Here is more now with Anna Stewart.
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ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): Her song is about facing down a hurricane.
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And Israel's Eurovision entry this year especially finds herself at the center of a storm. Through to Saturday's final of the music contest, but, well, Eden Golan enjoyed a rapturous response from the studio audience in the Thursday night semifinal. The crowd outside the venue in Malmo, Sweden, struck a wholly different tone. Thousands gathered to protest against Israel's inclusion in the event, saying it should be barred by the European Broadcasting Union because of its military campaign in Gaza.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The EBU has allowed Israel to participate in Eurovision, but not Russia, and I think that's just the -- it's wrong.
STEWART (voice-over): Climate activist Greta Thunberg amongst the crowds, calling for further demonstrations against Israel.
GRETA THUNBERG, CLIMATE ACTIVIST: I think they can be everywhere. And once again, young people are leading the way.
STEWART (voice-over): Israeli singer Golan seemingly not deterred by the outrage on the streets.
EDEN GOLAN, ISRAELI EUROVISION FINALIST: Of course, there is stress and nerves and excitement and many, many things around and thoughts. But, at the end of the day, I'm very focused. STEWART (voice-over): Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu calling out what he said was an ugly wave of antisemitism directed towards Golan, telling her in a video message, when they boo, we will cheer you on. The atmosphere has been tense around the Eurovision Song Contest venue, amidst one of the largest security operations Malmo has ever seen, according to Swedish police. Eurovision has always proclaimed to be apolitical. Organizers already intervened earlier in the year when Israel's initial entry titled "October Rain" was deemed to too closely reference the Hamas-led attacks of October 7.
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Dissent has still crept in. In Belgium, the semifinal broadcast was interrupted briefly with this message on Thursday. A statement from the network union condemning what it said were the violations of human rights by the state of Israel. Protests organized in Malmo to coincide with Saturday's final have promised to draw bigger crowds than the venue audience itself. Eurovision's slogan "United by music" facing perhaps its biggest challenge yet.
Anna Stewart, CNN, London.
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SOLOMON: Now, since military operations began in Gaza, a growing number of Palestinians are being held in the Sde Teiman military detention center in the Negev Desert, a shadowy facility where reports of widespread abuse of detainees are emerging. And for the first time, CNN speaks to three serving Israeli whistleblowers who have worked in various capacities at the prison, and they describe a systematic pattern of abuse there, including mass detention in and stress positions, sensory deprivation, beatings and torture. They say that they're speaking out as a matter of conscience.
And CNN's Matthew Chance has this exclusive report.
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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a place the Israeli military doesn't want us to see.
CHANCE: How many Palestinians are there in there right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me please now.
CHANCE: Hang on. What is it that you want? My camera or card?
CHANCE (voice-over): But, CNN has gained exclusive evidence of Palestinian prisoner abuse from multiple Israeli whistleblowers. At the Sde Teiman facility in southern Israel, we joined human rights activists amid growing public concern for the detainees being held inside.
CHANCE: This is a protest by Israeli citizens outside a detention center close to Gaza, where we know hundreds of Palestinians have been held. You can see, it's a closed military facility. It's behind the barbed wire fence. We're not permitted access.
CHANCE (voice-over): And this hostility from passers-by.
CHANCE: Passed in a car and they shouted to us in Hebrew.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
CHANCE: You're defending murderers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
CHANCE: You are defending --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. We're defending basic human rights.
CHANCE (voice-over): And eyewitnesses are now speaking act. Away from the military facility, near the beaches of Tel Aviv, one young Israeli Army reservist agreed to speak about scores of detainees at Sde Teiman. He says they are kept in cages or pens, constantly shackled and blindfolded, many for weeks on end. We've hidden his identity and voice to shield him from prosecution.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Interpreted): We were told they are not allowed to move and must sit upright. They're not allowed to talk or peek under their blindfolds.
CHANCE: And what happened if they did do that? What punishments will lead to that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Interpreted): We were allowed to pick out problematic people and punish them, having them stand with their hands above their heads for an unlimited time. If they didn't keep their hands up, we could zip tie them to the fence.
CHANCE (voice-over): The Israeli military says detainees are handcuffed based on their risk level and health status. But, the account tallies with photographic evidence obtained by CNN of Palestinian detainees inside Sde Teiman, and with hand and wrist injuries shown to CNN by dozens of Palestinians released back into Gaza. Zip tied and blindfolded, says this former detainee, and tortured in a way I never imagined. One source telling us the restraints were so tight, they had to amputate a man's hand.
CHANCE: The view that I've heard expressed is that, how do you think Israeli hostages are treated by Hamas?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Interpreted): This sentiment was voiced in the facility. But, I think that if Hamas is so abominable, which I agree with, then why use Hamas as a bar. It's a descent into dehumanization.
CHANCE (voice-over): A dissent that's accelerated since the rampage by Hamas on October 7 last year, the killing and abduction to Gaza of hundreds of Israelis provoked outrage and a brutal response made Israel's wrath, tens of thousands Palestinians have been killed, and thousands detained for interrogation, transported to facilities like Sde Teiman where one Israeli guard now tells CNN prisoners are beaten. We've hidden his identity and voice too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Interpreted): You can take them out and hit them maybe four or five times with the club. It's no doubt in the face, so you don't see blood.
[11:25:00]
The detainees lie belly down, being hit and kicked, people screaming and dogs barking at them. It's terrifying. Some detainees are taken away and beaten really hard. So, bones and teeth are broken.
CHANCE: So, you saw people who were subjected to these beatings, who had their bones broken and who had their teeth broken.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Interpreted): Yes. It's a practice which commanders know about. They want intelligence but they also want revenge and punishment for what happened on October 7.
CHANCE: Can we ask?
CHANCE (voice-over): The Israeli military hasn't approved CNN's requests for access to Sde Teiman. But, at the gates of the facility, we challenged the Israeli guards.
CHANCE: How many Palestinians are there in there right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. I prefer not to answer it.
CHANCE: Do you know if they are being handcuffed? Are they being blindfolded?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no.
CHANCE: This is a facility.
CHANCE (voice-over): As we leave, masked soldiers approach.
CHANCE: Hello. How are you? I'm filming this way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are you guys?
CHANCE: We're CNN.
CHANCE (voice-over): They tried to take our cameras.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me please now.
CHANCE: Hang on. What is it that you want? My camera or my card?
CHANCE (voice-over): Then order us to leave.
CHANCE: Well, we're driving now to meet one Israeli with personal experience of the Sde Teiman facility. It is experience that he says has left him shocked at the condition and the medical treatment of Palestinian detainees there.
CHANCE (voice-over): He told us he treated Palestinian detainees with gunshot wounds fresh from the war zone in Gaza, but was appalled at the lack of equipment and expertise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Interpreted): The problem is Gazans who were brought in are labeled as terrorists and it is very popular opinion over here that terrorists deserve to die. So, they do not deserve the same medical care as everyone else.
CHANCE (voice-over): Satellite imagery obtained by CNN shows how the Sde Teiman facility was expanded after the October 7 attacks, with detention facilities and makeshift medical bays being added of the public hospitals in Israel, refused to treat injured Gazan suspects. Eyewitness accounts describe a field hospital with 15 to 20 patients virtually naked and blindfolded, with hands and feet shackled to their beds, and wearing diapers. One eye witness told CNN, painful procedures were carried out by under-qualified medics, treatment, the medical worker told us, amounts to punishment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Interpreted): In my view, it's the idea of total vulnerability. If you imagine being unable to move, being unable to see what's going on, that's something that borders if not crosses into psychological torture.
CHANCE (voice-over): The Israeli military says prisoners are stripped for security checks, and that investigations are opened when there is suspicion of misconduct. Still, accounts from Israelis and Palestinians inside and the shocking images paint a disturbing picture.
Matthew Chance, CNN, at Sde Teiman in southern Israel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOLOMON: And our thanks to Matthew Chance for that report. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
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[11:30:00]
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SOLOMON: Welcome back. We want to bring you some breaking news from the United Nations. Just now, the UN General Assembly has passed a measure to push forward the effort to make Palestine a full member, and recommend that the UN Security Council reconsider the matter favorably.
Let's bring back in CNN's Nic Robertson, who joins us live from London. And Nic, it looks like it passed with pretty significant support. Walk us through it.
ROBERTSON: It really did, 193 votes, two thirds majority required, 143 votes for it, nine against, 25 abstentions. So, yeah, this walkthrough, as expected. But, the real conundrum or bottleneck for what's really intended -- this is intended to achieve, which is to get Palestine recognized as a member of the United Nations. This goes back to the UN Security Council. And the dynamic there hasn't really changed. We don't know who voted against in the General Assembly there. But, we can expect definitely Israel was one and very likely the United States would have been another, and of course, the United States has a veto at the UN Security Council. So, should this vote come up again, as happened last month, there is the probability that the United States would was simply veto again.
But, what the Palestinian representatives now have is the ability to propose debate, the ability to answer back in debate, the ability to discuss issues that are not just Palestinian-Mideast issues within the UN. So, this improves their voice at the UN. It doesn't make a substantial difference outside really are the holes of the UN, but it does show which way the global political will is leaning, and that is the challenge, Israel's narrative. And I think it was very telling that we heard from Pakistan's representative speaking after Israel's representative. Israel's representative accused the UN General Assembly of essentially allowing a terrorist state into the UN, likening to a modern day Nazi Germany being allowed into the United Nations, completely against the understanding of the UN and the UN Charter, he said.
Well, when the Pakistani representative took the stand, he said that kind of language was an insult to the General Assembly. So, out of 193, 143 for this to move the status and improve the status of the Palestinian people.
SOLOMON: Yeah. Nic, you lay out there well sort of the conundrum this creates moving forward in terms of the Security Council and whether they would reconsider this favorably as the measure proposes. But, give us a sense on some of the strong language we've heard. You sort of touched on it there. But, the Israeli representative putting up the picture of Yahya Sinwar. We also heard an impassionate speech from the Palestinian side. Passions are high.
ROBERTSON: Yeah. And I think that there was sort of one dispassionate speech, if you will, and that came from the President of the UN setting all of this up, and you would expect it to be a dispassionate speech. But, the point that he made is, this issue of Palestinian statehood, representative of Palestine being represented as a member of the UN has been going on as long as the UN has been in existence. So, nothing will change quickly in this equation and in what we can expect. But, it shows, I think, that the mood here is moving away from Israel, and a lot of that is based on anger of how Israel has prosecuted its attacks in Gaza as action after Hamas' horrific attacks. What sympathy might have existed before for Israel's position and the brutality of Hamas's attack, I think we've witnessed today how much of that has washed away.
SOLOMON: Yeah. And certainly, all eyes now on Rafah to see what happens in Rafah. Nic Robertson, thanks so much. Good to have you back.
[11:35:00] And Jim, I want to send it back to you. Really, really interesting both to see what's happening at the UN as we continue to see growing division between Netanyahu and Biden especially after those comments that Biden made to our colleague Erin Burnett earlier this week.
SCIUTTO: No question, and continued, of course, Israeli military operations around Rafah and possibly moving into Rafah, and we'll see how that tests the relationship going forward.
Meanwhile, in this country, the Trump hush money trial, we continue to cover, and it appears that one of the main witnesses will begin testimony on Monday and that is Michael Cohen, of course, Donald Trump's former attorney and fixer-turned chief antagonist, expected to testify for several days next week, as prosecutors try to hammer home their contention that Trump made those payments to Stormy Daniels, hid them and with the intention of influencing the election.
Former Trump White House aide Madeleine Westerhout, she sat outside the Oval Office for two and a half years. She returned briefly to the stand today, testifying about the inner workings of the West Wing, particularly in that moment after the release of the Access Hollywood tape when there was great concern about whether Trump's campaign for President then would survive, influencing prosecutors argued the decision to pay money to catch and kill the Stormy Daniels story.
Back with us now, former federal prosecutor Michael Zeldin, also the host of "That Said With Michael Zeldin" a podcast, So, Michael, Michael Cohen, another Michael, is going to testify on Monday. Just describe again what the prosecution needs from him at this point, given that there have already been witnesses, Stormy Daniels to establish or at least testify that the relationship took place, the National Enquirer publisher to talk about the payments made, the discussions made to hide stories like this, what is the missing piece that Cohen himself has to provide?
ZELDIN: I'm not 100 percent sure that Cohen has to provide anything in particular. You've got a pretty strong circumstantial case that Donald Trump knew about these payments, approved these payments, and understood that they were incorrectly, fraudulently entered onto his business record. So, one could argue, you don't really need Cohen. But, we know that defense is going to argue. There is no direct evidence linking Trump to Cohen. Cohen has an agenda. And therefore, we have reasonable doubt.
So, what the prosecutors want to do is close that knowledge gap between the circumstantial evidence and Donald Trump's behavior to bring in direct evidence with Michael Cohen, hopefully, in a sober way, we'll say. I met with Donald Trump. We discussed this. We have this audio tape where he says pay cash. I paid Stormy Daniels and he repaid me and we agreed that he would up the rate from $130.000 to $420,000, so I wouldn't have to pay taxes. So, I think that's all they want from Cohen, and we'll see whether they can contain him.
SCIUTTO: Can you -- we should remind folks, Cohen went to jail in part for his involvement in this. What is the relevance of his prior conviction to this case? ZELDIN: Well, they're going to argue that he is a liar and he is not to be believed. We saw a sample of that in the cross-examination of Stormy Daniels. Right? They said to her, essentially, you made this whole story up. You're a liar. You're an extortionist, and you should not be believed, will be their closing argument. They're going to say the same thing in spades with respect to Cohen that he is not only a liar, but he has been convicted jailed liar. And so, there is no basis to believe what he has to say, especially when you layer on all of the adamance that he has displayed in his books and his podcast and his tweets. The guy just can't be trusted, will be the defense argument.
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: I get that argument. I get that the defense will do that and that's their job to question the credibility of witnesses for the prosecution. It makes sense. But, Cohen went to jail. A court found him guilty for involvement in a similar scheme. Did it not? So, I wonder how that impacts just the overall credibility of the prosecutor's case against Trump.
ZELDIN: Well, I don't know that it undermines their case, particularly. It says that Michael Cohen was jailed for a conduct related to that, which Donald Trump is on trial for now. And therefore, this is a continuation of, if you will, the investigation that led to the jailing of Cohen. So, they might try to present it as Cohen paid his price. Now, it's time for Trump to pay --
SCIUTTO: Right.
ZELDIN: -- his price too.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. It seems a relevant point. We'll see how the prosecutors make that case and how the jury, of course, receives it. Michael Zeldin, thanks so much.
[11:40:00] And still ahead, U.S. President Joe Biden trying to satisfy both sides, it seems, at the debate on the Israel-Hamas war. Is it working? Political commentator Michael Smerconish will join us next with analysis.
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SOLOMON: Welcome back. U.S. President Joe Biden's decision to withhold certain types of weapons from Israel is coming under some serious scrutiny. His decision comes as pro-Palestinian protests continue on U.S. college campuses, but many Republicans say that the President has gone too far in appeasing the anti-war sentiment. Some accusing him of being driven by politics during an election year. Listen.
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SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): The problem with what's happening with the Biden administration today is not only does it force people to question our reliability as an ally, it puts Israel's national security interest at risk. This is insane. SEN. STEVE DAINES (R-MT): Why is that on hold? To appease his liberal base in places like Dearborn, Michigan, because Joe Biden is in trouble in Michigan.
SEN. KATIE BRITT (R-AL): He is playing into the pro-Hamas wing of the Democratic Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOLOMON: OK. Joining us now to break down the impact and the political impact of the war on Gaza, plus the latest in the Trump hush money case, is the host of CNN's Smerconish, political commentator, Michael Smerconish. Thanks for joining us. Always good to have you on a Friday, Michael.
Let's start there, because you did a poll that got my attention. So, Biden has been accused this week certainly after making those comments about the population centers in Rafah, that he is trying to both sides (ph) this issue, that some have even said it's a lose-lose issue for Biden. And you posted a May 9 poll, and we can put up the results here, and what I thought was interesting is that, when you ask voters what the most important issue was for them, the conflict in the Middle East wasn't even in the top five. So, how do you see this issue for Biden?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST, CNN's "SMERCONISH", & CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Rahel, the reason that I asked that question is I was actually tracking data from a different poll from Generation Lab given to American college students, nine different factors, and the situation in the Middle East was number nine out of nine. And amidst this campus unrest and tumult, I was floored by that, because to watch the images on television and to see the reports from coast to coast in the United States, you would think that would be the number one issue or surely the number two issue.
So, I wanted to compare my own audience, and it was a very similar finding that people's minds, and I think this has relevance to the election of 2024, are really not on the situation right now in Israel and in Gaza. I think that President Biden, to your point, tried to thread the needle earlier this week and appease everyone, and in the process, he may have pleased no one.
And the final thought that I will offer you is, to some, it's kind of reminiscent of Vietnam protests and the coming convention in the summer, which like 1968, for the Democrats is going to be in Chicago. So, among the questions that I most wanted to know was whether this unrest is going to spill over into the convention when students are no longer on campuses.
[11:45:00]
SOLOMON: Yeah. You've certainly heard some indications of that, at least in reporting, that that's where we might see these protests continue. Certainly, one to watch. Michael, so, their attention may not be on this as much. But, what about the testimony in New York? Stormy Daniels, salacious at times. Do you think this has moved the needle? I mean, viewer interest is high. But, does this change anything politically, do you think?
SMERCONISH: No. Not at all. And given the events of the week, we're having this conversation, obviously, live on a Friday, you know that the federal action in Florida, Judge Aileen Cannon has not set a trial date in the Mar-a-Lago document case. We're awaiting word from the Supreme Court on the January 6 federal case. The situation in Georgia is ill-determined, Fulton County, because of the relationship between Fani Willis and Nathan Wade.
So, in all probability, this is the only case against Trump that will get to trial before the election. He has not been harmed in the polls. Arguably, it has strengthened his hand. And I just don't speak to anyone who call my radio program from across the country who say, I've really changed my mind. Now, I'm for him or now I'm against him. It's a Rorschach test that people are seeing as they wish.
SOLOMON: What about moderate voters? I mean, you could argue, Trump has 99 problems and moderate voters are certainly among them. I mean, you look at the primary in Indiana. Nikki Haley, who dropped out months ago, voters obviously know this, Nikki Haley still polled more than 20 percent. How much of a problem is that for him?
SMERCONISH: I think it is a problem for him. I think that it's a game of inches. All the national polls and more importantly the battleground polls, say that it's nip and tuck within the margin of error. Donald Trump needs every Republican to come home, including, Rahel, Nikki Haley herself. I mean, what will she do? Will she end up endorsing him? I don't know. It remains to be seen. But, I think that it exposes a wit of a problem that he has, a weakness that he has. And in the end, it's probably an election that's going to be decided by very few people, 50 states, but six, may be seven of them matter. And the last campaign was determined by just 44,000 American votes.
SOLOMON: Fascinating. I mean, the margins are truly fascinating. So, this may be decided by very few people, and it also may be decided by very few issues. I mean, one thing that continues to be a major issue is the economy. And Michael, one thing I wanted to talk to you about is, we got some data this morning, the University of Michigan consumer sentiment, which is basically just a pulse check of how people are feeling about their personal finances, how they're feeling about the economy. And we had actually started to see this trend up that people were starting to feel better, and then it sort of tumbled this month when you compare it to last month. So, people are not feeling as good as they had been feeling. And so, this problem remains persistent for the current President.
SMERCONISH: And I think the lesson is this, that what's been getting all the attention, each party, each party has a great get out the vote issue. For Democrats, it is abortion rights. Abortion rights since the overturning of the Roe v. Wade decision here in the states are undefeated. Every time it's been on the ballot or a candidate has made it an issue, it wins. For the Republicans, it's been border security. And yet, what you're addressing the economy or as James Carville famously said back in the 90s, it's the economy, stupid, is probably the most important as compared to the other two.
SOLOMON: Yeah. It's the economy, stupid. Before I let you go, Michael, what's on the show for tomorrow? What can we expect?
SMERCONISH: So, I'm going to talk much about the same issues that you've raised with me. I mean, I think we both, I hope, have our finger on the pulse of that which is most significant. Thomas Friedman from The New York Times is going to join me to talk about the situation in Gaza, and we'll have an update on the Trump trial as well, depending on what transpires today.
SOLOMON: Yeah. And we learned today that Michael Cohen will be testifying on Monday, which will be certainly one to watch.
SMERCONISH: Look out. Look out.
SOLOMON: Yeah. For sure. Michael Smerconish, always good to have you. Thank you.
SMERCONISH: Thank you, Rahel. Thank you.
SOLOMON: And the lovely city of Philadelphia.
All right. Coming up, one more thing about basic gym membership. After more than two decades, the largest gym chain in the U.S. is asking its new members to pay more to work out. But, how much more? We'll discuss when we come back.
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[11:50:00]
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SOLOMON: Welcome back. Prince William has given a rare health update on his wife Catherine. The Prince of Wales, he says that Kate is quote "doing well following her cancer diagnosis." William made the comments during the visit to a community hospital off the Cornish coast in southwest England when staff asked about her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: May I ask how Princess Kate is doing?
PRINCE WILLIAM, PRINCE OF WALES, AND ELDER SON OF KING CHARLES III: She is doing well, very well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOLOMON: Kate revealed in March that she had been diagnosed with cancer and was in the early stages of treatment. Glad to hear that she is doing well.
All right. We're getting some insight today into the popularity of a relatively new class of weight loss drugs. A new survey shows that one in eight adults in the U.S. have used drugs like Ozempic or Wegovy at one point in their life. Most say that they're on the drugs to manage chronic conditions like diabetes or heart disease, which is their primary purpose. But, about two in five said that they were on them solely to lose weight.
All right. Now, just one more thing before you go because it is Friday and maybe you plan on working out this weekend. New members at the largest gym chain in the U.S. are going to be paying more for the first time in over two decades. Planet Fitness is raising the price of its classic membership to $15 a month from $10 a month. The "Black Club" membership that offers access to more locations and perks, that membership price, that's going to stay the same.
For more on this, let's bring in CNN Business Reporter Nathaniel Meyersohn, who joins us from New York. Um, so, Nathaniel, for those who don't know the price of Planet Fitness, this affordable price is really a big part of its brand. So, what's the reaction been to this move now?
NATHANIEL MEYERSOHN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Rahel, it is nothing sacred anymore, even Planet Fitness' a classic $10 month membership. But, to your question on the reaction, I mean, listen to the call yesterday with analysts when the CEO announced it. Analysts kind of questioned him whether this was the right time for Planet Fitness to be doing this. After all, consumers are stretched right now by inflation. They're looking for deals. And so, that could impact Planet Fitness. Analysts are not sure about the timing. And as you said, this $10 membership is critical -- has been critical to Planet Fitness' business model and its strategy.
Planet Fitness is not a luxury gym, and it really looks to find first- time gym members. You look at its membership. About 40 percent of new members have never belonged to a gym before in the past, or just signing up for Planet Fitness. And that $10 price, it's cheap enough that it gets customers into the gym, but it's not expensive enough where they're going to cancel it. Sometimes, they'll just hang on to it even if they don't go that frequently. So, how is the $15 price going to impact this business model? A lot of questions. Planet Fitness says that it thinks it's the right time to do it after all prices are rising across the board. And if you look at the stock price, the stock has gone up today because it means more sales, but there could be some backlash.
SOLOMON: Yeah. More revenue. I don't know, Nathaniel. I mean, maybe I should be a financial analyst because I have the very same question about whether this is the right time, also the jump from $10 to $15. I mean, sometimes, what you see with these companies is a more gradual ramp up, so it doesn't feel -- it doesn't sting as bad. But, I'm no consultant. So, anyway, Planet Fitness, the deal, that's not the only thing that has changed, Nathaniel. Talk to us about some of the other long-running promos that apparently are ending because of inflation.
MEYERSOHN: Yeah. So, things that have been around for decades have changed because of inflation the past few years. Just recently, Trader Joe's said that it was increasing the price of its 19 cent bananas to 24 cents, and that deal has been around --
SOLOMON: (Inaudible) Nathaniel.
MEYERSOHN: That deals been around for 20 years. I think the biggest one the past few years was the -- was Dollar Tree. Dollar Tree raised its prices from $1 to $1.25, and that came after 35 years.
[11:55:00]
And there was a ton backlash to this from Dollar Tree that still exists, and the $1 price was Dollar Tree's whole brand identity, and it hasn't quite recovered since. $1.25 tree doesn't have the --
SOLOMON: No.
MEYERSOHN: -- same ring as Dollar Tree. But, I think that the Planet Fitness $10 membership is also central to the brand strategy, 26 years. And so, is that brand identity going to change?
SOLOMON: So fascinating, Nathaniel. I feel like the Harvard Business Review should do a case study on this because one thing --
MEYERSOHN: You and us.
SOLOMON: Right. Let's get on it, because one thing I've seen is -- actually, I've seen some low cost retailers announce that they're lowering their prices because inflation is so high. Nathaniel Meyersohn, we will talk about it another time. Have a great weekend. Thank you.
And we also hope you have a great weekend as well. Thank you for spending some time with me. My thanks to my colleague Jim Sciutto. I'm Rahel Solomon in New York. Don't go anywhere. Stick with CNN. One World, it's coming up next.
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