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U.S.-Israel Ties Tested After Biden's Weapons Ultimatum; UNGA Passes Resolution Calling On Security Council To Reconsider Palestinian Membership To The U.N.; Inside Israel's Shadowy Desert Prison; Former Trump Lawyer Michael Cohen Expected To Testify Monday; Tonight: Geomagnetic Storm May Trigger Aurora Borealis. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired May 10, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:36]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It's 8:00 p.m. in London, 9:00 p.m. in Malmo, Sweden, 10:00 p.m. in Rafah, Gaza, 3:00 p.m. here in Washington.

I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.

And let's get right to the news.

We are following two major stories today. The criminal hush money trial of former President Donald Trump has wrapped up for the week. On Monday, we expect to hear from Trump's former fixer and lawyer, Michael Cohen. They worked together for years.

But we do want to begin this hour with straining ties between Israel and the U.S. An Israeli official says the nation's security cabinet has now approved an expansion of its military operation in Rafah. This comes just a day after U.S. President Joe Biden told CNN America would halt weapons shipments to Israel if the Israeli military invades the southern Gazan City.

Benjamin Netanyahu responded to that threat on an American talk show today, insisting that the operation will go on as planned and Israel will stand alone if necessary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I've known Joe Biden for many years, 40 years, and more, but we will do what we have to do to protect our country. And that means to protect our future and that means we will defeat Hamas, including in Rafah. We have no other choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, the U.N. chief warns that a Rafah incursion would lead to a, quote, epic humanitarian disaster. Officials estimate nearly 110,000 people have escaped the southern Gazan city since Monday. But many hundred thousands more remain.

The U.N. General Assembly has passed a resolution calling on the Security Council to reconsider Palestinian membership in the U.N. Israel's foreign minister condemn that decision, calling it absurd.

Let's bring in CNN international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson.

So, Nic, we're learning that Israel's security cabinet has approved expanding the military operation in Rafah. This follows the U.S. president saying the U.S. would not provide weapons if that operation goes forward. I know that some Israeli officials are playing down the size of this operation, but it's hard not to see this as a direct defiance of the U.S. president. Is it?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, you can parse the words, whether this is an operation or a full-blown operation. And we won't know until -- until it happens. I think what we're witnessing on the ground as Israel as certainly poised and ready. It has already told Palestinians to move from the eastern parts of Rafah. It already has what it calls one of the hospitals, the principal hospitals to shutter its doors and move out.

The population is moving. So, some of the conditions on the ground that you would expect before -- before a larger offensive have happened. And I think a couple of other key details to look at here, last weekend before the IDF actually went into the Rafah area and drop those leaflets, literally the day before Hamas fired a bunch the rockets at Kerem Shalom, they killed at least three soldiers. That really, you know, was assigned for the military, if you're poised to go into Rafah, you can't really hang around.

And I think for those troops that are in there, the government is now in the military is caught in a tough place, either you reverse and get out, or you move ahead and they have a very big deployment of military hardware now at the Rafah border crossing, just inside of Israel. And I think look at what happened this afternoon. Beersheba, right 30 miles from Rafah, IDF says nine rockets were fired by Hamas from the Rafah area to Beersheba. Sirens went off there twice.

This hasn't happened in months. One lady was lightly injured, one of the rockets was intercepted, four others landed, one of them landed in a children's play park area. If you're the IDF and you're looking at what Hamas is doing in Rafah, that looks tantamount to goading the IDF to push in and expand those operations.

SCIUTTO: Well, it also raises a question about the effectiveness of the operations so far because Israel's moved into areas in Gaza, moved out and Hamas returns to those areas.

Bigger picture, though, I wonder if I could ask you, because in New York, you had this quite significant vote in the general assembly calling on the Security Council to reconsider Palestinian membership, but of course, we know the structure of the Security Council, we know the U.S. has a veto and has used its veto in the past to block such measures.

[15:05:05]

Does this move the ball forward in any way? ROBERTSON: I think it puts more wind in the sails and if you listen to

the kind of emotional speech that was given before that vote by the Palestinian representative at the U.N. talking about how the Palestinian flag is flying above campuses, college campuses in the United States, it was emotional, right? Because he really feels that there's this growing international support.

It was required at the general assembly there for a two-thirds majority, they got close to three quarters of all the possible votes there in favor of this move. It gives the Palestinians are bigger voice at the U.N. It doesn't give them U.N. membership, it doesn't give them status of a state.

But it does throw the pressure back on the United States and does indicate to Israel of the growing change of perception. Look, a lot of the world, a lot of those countries at the U.N. General Assembly, when Hamas attacked Israel on October the 7th, barbaric attacks, more than 1,200 people killed. It was a lot of sympathy for Israel, but I think what were witnessing now across the college campuses and the U.N. General Assembly is a shift in mood and tone. And that pressure will come back on the United States. President Biden experiences it already.

So, is this significant for the Palestinians, small, they've been waiting for it there at the U.N. for a long time.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. And we should note the U.S. does support a path to statehood. In fact, that's a requirement of these ongoing negotiations between Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the U.S. about normalization. But, of course, it all involves the details, right, in the path towards it.

Nic Robertson, thanks so much, as always.

Well, now, to Capitol Hill here in Washington, where a highly anticipated report on Israel's conduct, military conduct in Gaza could be delivered to Congress as soon as today. This according to CNN contributor, Axios political reporter Barak Ravid.

The State Department's report is expected to stop short of declaring Israel in violation of terms of use for U.S. weapons during this seven-month long and ongoing wars.

CNN international security correspondent Kylie Atwood joins us now.

Kylie, do we know whether the report has reached a conclusion? And do we know why it's been delayed?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, we do know that it is really close to being finished here, Jim. We are expecting it to be sent to the Hill as soon as today, but definitely in the coming days. NSC's John Kirby was just asked by a reporter at the White House about the delay here and he said that it has nothing to do with a nefarious effort to try and hide the report are trying to make it harder for us to report on.

He says it has to do with the spade work going into making sure that this report is taken seriously and done in a fulsome way. So we'll watch and see when we actually get the report. But as you said, our colleague or contributor Barak Ravid has gotten us ahead of the report in such that he is reporting that it's found that Israel did not actually violate U.S. terms of use for us weaponry.

Of course, that weaponry that they're getting from the United States, its being used to continue the war in Gaza to go after Hamas, that Israel has been carrying out since October 7th. So that would lead us to believe that the report doesn't find that Israel violated international humanitarian law. And that is what this report has to determine.

The other thing that it has to make a determination over is whether Israel impeded the delivery of humanitarian support into Gaza. And that's another key one, Jim, because we've heard from U.S. officials sort of trying to have it both ways saying that Israel needs to be doing more, but they have been making some progress. Well, this is a report that requires a determination to be made at specific moments throughout the course of the last few months here, not just a final declaration of where Israel stands right now, but was there any moment in time where they were impeding that humanitarian aid from getting into Gaza. We'll have to watch and see when this report actually gets out to Congress and his briefed here to us.

SCIUTTO: And of course, the president did say to Erin Burnett earlier this week, the U.S. weapons have led to civilian casualties there, whether that violates the terms of use. We'll see the State Department's determination.

Kylie Atwood at the State Department, thanks so much.

Well, since military operations began in Gaza, growing number of Palestinians are being held in the Sde Teiman military detention center. It's a shadowy facility, where reports of widespread abuse are now emerging.

For the first time, CNN speaks to three serving Israeli whistleblowers, who have worked in various capacities inside that prison.

They describe a systematic pattern of abuse, including mass detention in stress positions, sensory deprivation, beatings, and torture.

[15:10:02]

They say they are speaking out now, as a matter of conscience.

Matthew Chance has this exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a place the Israeli military doesn't want us to see.

How many Palestinians are there in there right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are you? Give me please now.

CHANCE: Hang on. What is it you want? My camera or my card?

But CNN has gained exclusive evidence of Palestinian prisoner abuse from multiple Israeli whistleblowers. At the Sde Teiman facility in Southern Israel we joined human rights activists amid growing public concern for the detainees being held inside.

This is a protest by Israeli citizens outside a detention center close to Gaza, where we know hundreds of Palestinians have been held. You can see it's a closed military facility. It's behind the barbed wire fence. We're not permitted access.

And this hostility from passersby.

We just had somebody drive past in a car and they shouted out to us in Hebrew, you're defending murderers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

CHANCE: You're defending --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, we're defending basic human rights.

CHANCE: And eyewitnesses are now speaking out. Away from the military facility near the beaches of Tel Aviv, one young Israeli army reservist agreed to speak about scores of detainees at Sde Teiman he says are kept in cages or pens, constantly shackled and blindfolded many for weeks on end. We've hidden his identity and voice to shield him from prosecution.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We were told they are not allowed to move and must sit up right. They are not allowed to talk or peek under their blindfolds.

CHANCE: And what happened if they if they did do that? What kind of punishments were rooted out?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We were allowed to pick out problematic people and punish them. Having them stand with their hands above their heads for an unlimited time. If they didn't keep their hands up, we could zip tie them to the fence.

CHANCE: The Israeli military says detainees a handcuffed based on their risk level and health status. But the account tallies with photographic evidence obtained by CNN of Palestinian detainees inside Sde Teiman. And with hand and wrist injuries shown to CNN by dozens of Palestinians, released back into Gaza.

We're zip-tied and blindfolded, says this former detainee, and tortured in a way I never imagined. One source telling us the restraints were so tight they had to amputate a man's hand.

The view that I've heard expressed is that you know, how do you think Israeli hostages are treated by Hamas? UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This sentiment was voiced in the facility, but I think that if Hamas is so abominable, which I agree with, then why use Hamas as a bar? It's a descent into dehumanization.

CHANCE: A descent that's accelerated. Since the rampage by Hamas on October 7th last year, the killing and abduction to Gaza of hundreds of Israelis provoked outrage and a brutal response. Amid Israel's wrath, tens of thousands of Palestinians have been killed, and thousands detained for interrogation. Transported to facilities like Sde Teiman where one Israeli guard now tells CNN prisoners are routinely beaten.

We've hidden his identity and voice, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): You can take them out and hit them maybe four or five times with a club. It's not dying in the face so you don't see blood. The detainees lie belly down, being hit and kicked, people screaming, and dogs barking at them. It's terrifying. Some detainees are taken away and beaten really hard. So bones and teeth are broken.

CHANCE: So you saw people who are subject to these beatings or had their bones broken and who had their teeth broken?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes. It's a practice which commanders know about. They want intelligence, but they also want revenge and punishment for what happened on October 7th.

CHANCE: The Israeli military hasn't approved CNN's requests for access to Sde Teiman. But at the gates of the facility we challenged the Israeli guards.

How many Palestinians are in there right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. I prefer not to answer it.

CHANCE: I see. Do you know if they're handcuffed? Are they being blindfolded?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a facility.

CHANCE: As we leave, masked soldiers approached.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello. How are you?

CHANCE: I'm filming this way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You cannot film --

(CROSSTALK)

CHANCE: We'll leave now but the army so if you --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are you guys?

CHANCE: We're CNN.

(CROSSTALK)

[15:15:04]

CHANCE: They tried to take our cameras.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me please now. Give me please now.

CHANCE: Hang on, what is it that you want? My camera or my card?

Then ordered us to leave.

Well, we're driving now to meet one Israeli with personal experience at the Sde Teiman facility. It's experience that he says has left him shocked at the condition and the medical treatment of Palestinian detainees there.

He told us he treated Palestinian detainees with gunshot wounds, fresh from the war zone in Gaza, and was appalled at the lack of equipment and expertise.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The problem is Gazans who are brought in are labeled as terrorists and it is very popular opinion over here that terrorists deserve to die. So they do not deserve the same medical care as everyone else.

CHANCE: Satellite imagery obtained by CNN shows how the Sde Teiman facility was expanded after the October 7th attacks with detention facilities and makeshift medical bays being added after public hospitals in Israel refused to treat injured Gazan suspects. Eyewitness accounts described a field hospital with 15 to 20 patients virtually naked and blindfolded with hands and feet shackled to their beds, and wearing diapers.

What eyewitness told CNN painful procedures were carried out by underqualified medics, treatment the medical worker told us amounts to punishment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): In my view, it's the idea of total vulnerability. If you imagine being unable to move, being unable to see what's going on, that's something that borders if not crosses into psychological torture.

CHANCE: The Israeli military says prisoners are stripped for security checks and that investigations are opened when there's suspicion of misconduct. Still, accounts from Israelis and Palestinians inside and the shocking images paint a disturbing picture.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Just a shocking report. Our thanks to Matthew Chance.

And this just into CNN, the White House is now responded to Matthew and his team's report, calling the findings, quote, deeply concerning.

White House national security spokesman John Kirby said, they will be reaching out to our Israeli counterparts to get more information here about these allegations. That's the White House response.

Still to come, Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial is now preparing for a star witness, Michael Cohen. How the prosecutions case is fairing how far long as it? It's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:52]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Prosecutors in former President Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial are calling one of their star witnesses. It's going to be next week on Monday. Michael Cohen, Trump's former lawyer and fixer work for him very closely for years, expected to take the stand on Monday. The judge has asked Cohen to refrain from making any more statements about the case.

Today in court, events were largely procedural as they prepare for Cohen's testimony with prosecutors, calling witnesses to the stand to enter a particular evidenced crucial to their case.

Jessica Schneider joins me now.

So, Jessica, tell me how prosecutors today and prior today of set the stage and effect from Michael Cohen.

Yeah. They had to lay a lot of the groundwork throughout this testimony that we've heard. But in particular today, I mean, we heard from representatives from Verizon, from AT&T, from the D.A.'s office, just talking about records, whether they were phone records or whether they were tweets or other text messages that they had subpoenaed all to get them into the record and presumably, when Michael Cohen takes the stand on Monday, beginning on Monday, it's supposed to be several days likely, they will be able to then take that evidence that they already got admitted into evidence. And present it to Michael Cohen.

Again, this is all really to bolster Michael Cohen's credibility and his testimony because they know he's a problematic witness.

SCIUTTO: Right.

SCHNEIDER: He was convicted of lying to Congress and they know that the defense team, we saw what they did was Stormy Daniels. They're probably going to be ten times harder on Michael Cohen trying to tear him down because he's really the linchpin of this case. He could potentially provide that damaging testimony against Donald Trump and the defense wants to do all they can to tear him down, erode his credibility. So that's why the prosecution has spent so much time having these sort of incremental witnesses but they're introducing potentially crucial evidence that will bolster Michael Cohen's testimony. SCIUTTO: Right, in addition to already the testimony from David Pecker

and Stormy Daniels, et cetera, which laid the groundwork to some degree as well for the bulk of their case?

SCHNEIDER: Yeah, to some degree. I mean, they've been painting the picture of this hush money scheme, and Pecker in particular with a different hush money schemes.

But the real question here that we still haven't seen answered is how and if Donald Trump was directly connected to this idea that they would sort of hide the payments to Michael Cohen, label them as legal fees, retainer costs, rather than the repayment of the hush money and that's what the whole case is about.

SCIUTTO: Right.

SCHNEIDER: That's what this falsification of business records, all these counts are about. So they really, Michael Cohen is really the only shot they're going to have to directly tie Donald Trump. And if they don't, that's what the defense team is going to hang his hat on.

SCIUTTO: Jessica Schneider, thanks so much.

All right. So for more, let's bring Janet Johnson, criminal defense attorney, Jeff Swartz, former Florida judge, professor at Cooley Law School.

Good to have you both here.

So, Janet, question, to Jessica's point right there, legally, what does Michael Cohen need to bring to the table for prosecutors to make their case next week?

JANET JOHNSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean, pretty much everything. You know, he is the linchpin witness. What we've seen so far is basically circumstantial evidence saying it look -- it looks like Trump knew. He's a very hands-on businessman, you know, who pays their lawyers in excess so that it covers their taxes. Nobody does that when they pay my retainer fees.

All the circumstantial evidence showed that Donald Trump probably knew, but beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't think they've gotten there yet. Michael Cohen has got to get on the stand and say, Donald Trump told me to do it. He knew I was doing it and he did it in order to win the 2016 presidential election.

SCIUTTO: Jeff Swartz, question for you because I know his credibility issues here, convicted of lying to Congress, but Michael Cohen did go to jail. I mean, he was convicted for a related crime. Does that -- not so much to his credibility, but to the credibility of the charge and the facts at the center of the prosecutions case?

JEFF SWARTZ, FORMER FLORIDA JUDGE: Well, I think that's something that they're going to have to cover and hopefully the prosecution is -- excuse me -- preparing itself for just that, that they're putting together a direct examination to bring out those things that they anticipate will be brought out by the defense.

[15:25:16]

And that gives them the ability to short circuit it and put an explanation in front of the jury. I think the most important part of Michael's testimony is, yeah, his direct examination, his cross. But the redirect to try to rehabilitate him after he has been cross- examined may be the most important part of his testimony. And that's what the last impression that the jury will have.

So we have to watch them see what its done to him on cross and then watch and see what the state has holding in their hand to rehabilitate him.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, it's going to feel like an episode of "Law & Order", I kinda feel like at that point.

One of the functions of what we saw this week, particular with these custodial witnesses as they're known, was to enter evidence into -- into court for use next week. And one of those was a tweet by Donald Trump, but I want to put that up on the screen because I'm curious what you think, Janet, the significance of this is. It's Trump writing at the time: Mr. Cohen, an attorney received a monthly retainer, not from the campaign and having nothing to do with the campaign from which he entered into through reimbursement, a private contract between two parties known as a nondisclosure agreement or NDA.

Lawyers have noted that this appears to show Trump's knowledge of the system of reimbursements. And I wonder given sometimes Trump's words, whether spoken word or the written word, get them into trouble, is this -- is this a significant piece of evidence?

JOHNSON: It's significant and it also contradicts what we heard even just yesterday and today that we would just place checks in front of him and he would sign them. He didn't know what he was doing.

I don't think that pass the laugh first smell test, and I think Trump is basically saying, yes, this is how it was done. But again, it's not consistent with how lawyers get paid and I don't think he's paid any other attorneys that way.

And, you know, grossing up what he pays him, it paying him more to cover his taxes. That smacks of reimbursement, not retainer. So I do think that he'll be shown that.

And again, the administrative state of witnesses today, they were also unnecessary because the defense could have stipulated to a lot of this evidence, presumably, Donald Trump said, were not stipulating to anything. So that's why all these hoops were jumped through today.

SCIUTTO: I mean, you have, Jeff Swartz, the credibility of Michael Cohen. No question. Also, Stormy Daniels, which of course, defense attorneys tried to tear down her credibility as well, but you also the credibility of Donald Trump, do you not, from the jury's perspective. I mean, is that effectively the choice before them? Who do you believe?

SWARTZ: Well, the first -- the first thing you have to remember is that Donald Trump can testify if he wants to.

SCIUTTO: Right.

SWARTZ: But it's highly unlikely that he will.

You just showed one of the great pieces of evidence that would be used to impeach him when he sits there and says he doesn't know what was going, didn't know what was going on. He didn't know what was happening.

Oh, really? Well, why did you tweet this telling us what you were doing or what you did with Michael Cohen. He can't testify, and the jury is going to be told you can't take any implication of guilt from the fact that he didn't testify. But if you're only hearing one side and you're listening to only one side, they're going to be told you must look to the evidence that the state put on to determine whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty. Well, you haven't got much contradicting all the evidence finding him to find him guilty.

I think that there really isn't much they can do except for tried to break Michael Cohen into a sweat to make him angry, to make him lose his cool. I think that's what they really need to do. And if Michael plays this right and, he stays cool and it stays calm, then they'll lose and he'll win the day.

SCIUTTO: Before we go, leaving the courthouse today, Trump said, quote, I'd be very proud to go to jail for our constitution. Although this is, of course a state court case, regardless.

Before we go, Janet Johnson, what are the chances you believe that Donald Trump ends up in jail?

JOHNSON: It's a really tough situation for a judge because who wants to be the person that sends Donald Trump to jail? You know, I think the chances are pretty good he'll be convicted. If he's convicted and a convicted felon, obviously, that's a permanent mark in his record. I do see this as a case where it could be probation.

But, you know, to piggyback on what Jeff said, they could both have no credibility. They could both be terrible witnesses. Trump and Cohen are birds of a feather and I think that in closing, the state is going to say, look, you might not like Michael Cohen, but you know who really liked him and you know who hired him? Donald Trump.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

JOHNSON: And if you don't like one of them, you could actually not like both of them.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. I've heard the same -- same point made about others involved in this case saying, hey, we did -- we didn't choose these folks.

[15:30:04]

These were people in Trump's orbit.

Jeff Swartz, Janet Johnson, thanks so much to both of you. I'm sure well be talking next week.

Still to come this hour, the controversy now rocking the Eurovision song contest. Geopolitics getting involved. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

The Eurovision song contest aims to unite through music. But this years competition has become increasingly divisive because of Israel's participation. Israeli singer Eden Golan will compete in the finals tomorrow, despite calls for her, or country to be banned over how Israel is conducting its war against Hamas in Gaza.

Eurovision has banned countries in the past, Russia banned since 2022 due to the invasion of Ukraine. What's going to happen this time?

CNN's Anna Stewart has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Her song is about facing down a hurricane.

And Israel's Eurovision entry this year certainly finds herself at the center of a storm. Through to Saturday's final, the music contest, but while Eden Golan enjoyed a rapturous response from the studio audience on Thursday night semifinal, the crowd outside the venue in Malmo, Sweden, struck a wholly different tone.

(CHANTING)

STEWART: Thousands gathered to protest against Israel's inclusion in the event, saying it should be bought by the European Broadcasting Union because of its military campaign in Gaza.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The E.U. has allowed Israel to participate in Eurovision but not Russia and I think that's just -- it's wrong.

[15:35:10]

STEWART: Climate its activist Greta Thunberg amongst the crowds who willing for further demonstrations against Israel.

GRETA THUNBERG, CLIMATE ACTIVIST: I think they should be everywhere, and once again, young people are -- are leading the way.

STEWART: Israeli singer Golan seemingly not deterred by the outrage on the streets.

EDEN GOLAN, ISRAELI EUROVISION FINALIST: Of course, there's like stress and nerves and excitement and many, many, many things around and thoughts. But at the end of the day, I'm very focused.

STEWART: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu calling out what he said was an ugly wave of antisemitism directed towards Golan, telling her in a video message, when they boo, we will cheer you on.

The atmosphere has been tense around the Eurovision song contest venue amidst one of the largest security operations Malmo has ever seen, according to Swedish police.

Eurovision has always proclaimed to be apolitical. Organizers already intervened earlier in the year when Israel's initial entry titled "October Rain" was deemed to too closely reference the Hamas-led attacks of October 7.

Dissent has still crept in. In Belgium, the semifinal broadcast was interrupted briefly with this message on Thursday, a statement from the network union condemning what it said were the violations of human rights by the state of Israel.

Protests organized in Malmo to coincide with Saturday's final have promised to draw bigger crowds than the venue audience itself. Eurovision slogan united by music, facing perhaps its biggest challenge yet.

Anna Stewart, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Joining me now is Dean Vuletic. He is the author of the book "Postwar Europe and the Eurovision Song Contest"

Dean, good to have you on. Thank you.

DEAN VULETIC, AUTHOR, "POSTWAR EUROPE AND THE EUROVISION SONG CONTEST": Good evening, Jim, from Malmo.

SCIUTTO: So, as you know, the company has been trying to retain an apolitical tag, but you actually wrote in an opinion piece a few years ago that the competition has been very political, really most years. Do you consider this year's contest more polarized than previous years? Or is it one in a long line of issues of the day making its way -- making their way into the contest?

VULETIC: It certainly is embroiled in the politics of its time, as Eurovision usually has been throughout its history. But this year there is a particular polarization. Whereas in recent years, we've seen fans rally behind Ukraine, this year, we see a lot of division among Eurovision fans, among the European public concerning Israel's participation in Eurovision. Never before have there been such big protests attached to the Eurovision song contest.

SCIUTTO: You have heard this charge double standard, saying that Russia was banned after its invasion of Ukraine. Israel should be similarly bad. Of course, the circumstances of the wars are different. October 7 attacks, Hamas's responsibility.

But what's your answer to that critique?

VULETIC: My answer is that it's difficult for the European broadcasting union to act against Israel because there isn't a broader context of international sanctions against Israel and the national broadcasting organizations that are part of the European Broadcasting Union also can't act against Israel when their governments still have relations with Israel. So, it's a very different situation to the one with Russia. And to Yugoslavia back in 1992, which was excluded from Eurovision after U.N. sanctions were imposed against it for its roles in the wars in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina.

SCIUTTO: I wonder what you think should happen, what the standard should be, and as it right to have boycotts or bans -- I mean, you look for instance, as Anna Stewart said in her package that the original entry was more specifically about the October 7 attacks ,the Israeli entry was changed here and you've had similar controversies for instance, when you think of Russian players and major tennis tournaments, right?

Do you believe that Eurovision should ban at times some countries from participating?

VULETIC: I think that the European Broadcasting Union has its non- political rules, its non-political standards that it has a procedure of vetting the entries trying to make sure that the politics that these entries do express are not conflictual, are not the politics of intolerance, so there's certainly is a procedure for the European Broadcasting Union to follow when it comes to entries.

But again, it's difficult for the European Broadcasting Union, to act without a political mandate.

[15:40:02]

It is a non-political organization. It's not the equivalent of the Council of Europe or the European Union or the United Nations. It can't impose sanctions itself.

SCIUTTO: Understood. Yeah, no, you make the distinction between, for instance, Russia following the invasion, how international organizations reacted.

Dean Vuletic, thanks so much for joining.

VULETIC: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: And still to come, week three of Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial now over. The former president's fixer and lawyer Michael Cohen expected to testify beginning Monday. It's going to be a big moment in the trial.

What you need to know when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Day 15 of Trump's criminal hush money trial has now wrapped largely procedural today, but buckle up for Monday. Donald Trump's former attorney, his fixer, Michael Cohen, for years, is expected to begin his testimony. Cohen very much at the center of the hush money payment alleged to adult film actress Stormy Daniels.

For more on the man who will take center stage in the trial next week, I want to bring in CNN's Katelyn Polantz.

So, Katelyn, he is our lawyer friends have described to me arguably the lynchpin of the prosecution's criminal case.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: He really is. Buckle up, Jim. It's the right way to phrase this.

So going into Monday, we expect Michael Cohen to be called as a witness. We expect him to be on the stand testifying for probably multiple days and the reason that he's the linchpin in this case is that he is the person in that meeting with Donald Trump at the White House in February of 2017, where prosecutors allege they made the arrangements for Trump to reimburse him.

And we have seen throughout this case all of the money movement. There's been no dispute whatsoever that money was paid to Stormy Daniels to keep her quiet during the 2016 election, many people have been testifying about how the campaign was Donald Trump's motivation.

[15:45:05]

But at the end of the day, the alleged crime is all of that, and then some. And the end then some is what Michael Cohen would testify to, that Donald Trump was reimbursing him, not for legal expenses, but for this personal need to help his political campaign. That's what we expect Michael Cohen to say on the stand that the agreement was for Trump to pay him for Stormy Daniels for all of this because of the campaign. And that the cross-examination then from the defense team could be quite harsh because he's not the most straight placed.

SCIUTTO: And its key to their defense to try to tear down his credibility.

Let me ask you about a totally different case, which is the January 6 case, the federal case, the special counsels case against the former president, and where the Supreme Courts involvement in that stands?

POLANTZ: Yes. So Donald Trump, these four cases, this hush money case. Were headed to a verdict like right at some point, the two other cases in Florida related classified documents, in Georgia state case about January 6. Those are on hold, very unlikely to --

SCIUTTO: For different reasons, once the judge in Florida, who is a Trump appointee who seems to have put that on the back burner then, of course, Georgia, you have the ongoing controversy about the affair, right between the prosecutor.

POLANTZ: Right. And then Washington, D.C., January 6 case, the big case against Donald Trump, obstruction of the congressional preceding, trying to disenfranchise the American vote in 2020. That case is very far along before the trial judge. And there's one thing basically that has to get settled if Donald Trump has some sort of presidential immunity, the Supreme Court is very likely to work that out by the end of their term, at the end of June. If they do that in a way that is clean, or in a way that denies Donald Trump the immunity he seeks or the further proceedings over presidential immunity that he also seeks.

If he can't have full immunity, then it goes back to the trial judge and very well, could be back on a quick path to trial that could begin before the election. It is possible.

SCIUTTO: If they make that -- if they make that decision as opposed to bump it down to the lower federal court, to sort of delineate debate and decide.

POLANTZ: Yeah, they could do it in a couple of different ways. But there is still a an outside chance that this case that has not been front and center for awhile, is all of a sudden all were talking about and on a very fast strains.

SCIUTTO: Another trial we'll cover if it happens.

Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much.

Bringing back, legal expert, former federal judge Jeff -- Florida judge, Jeff Swartz.

On the question of the Supreme Court's decision here --

SWARTZ: Yeah.

SCIUTTO: -- what are their options now? And what do you think they're most likely choice among those options is?

SWARTZ: Well, I think they have really two options left based on what we heard in the argument the first thing is that they would say that there's absolutely no presidential immunity for any criminal offenses committed in or out of office, once you've left office.

So if you violate the law while you were in office, they agree you can't be tried on it. But in fact, once you're gone, that could happen.

And we could have seen that some 50 years ago with Richard Nixon, had it not been for Gerald ford pardoning him? The other choice they have is to the idea that if he does something in the furtherance of his office, it's a violation of the law. He's immune from prosecution for doing that act. Those are the two choices that they seem to be working out between them.

I happen to agree with Kaitlan that the case in D.C. is still on for -- in my thought process, still on a semi front burner. It depends on when they make their decision and how quickly Judge Chutkan can finally reach a trial date. His defense team has refused to file anything with the court claiming there's a stay the state prevents the court from doing anything, doesn't prevent people from filing things, and she has tried to encourage them to file their motions. She's going to force that to happen as quickly as she can and then rule summarily on most of those motions in anything that needs a hearing will get a very quick hearing.

I think you could see a trial date by the third week of August. And that case shouldn't take more than three to four weeks to try. So I think Kaitlan is on the right track there.

SCIUTTO: That would be quite a summer story.

Jeff Swartz --

SWARTZ: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- thank you so much.

And still to come this hour, solar storms are set to light up the night sky potentially disrupt communications, but also gives some beautiful for views up in the sky. We're going to explain.

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[15:52:38]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

So if you are late tonight or early tomorrow morning, you might have a chance to see the northern lights, a severe geomagnetic storm triggered by solar activity could lead to a spectator aurora borealis showing in Alabama, parts of California here in the U.S. The Space Weather Prediction Center issued a severe geomagnetic storm watch for the first time in nearly 20 years on Thursday.

The storm is now escalated to G4 status, the second most severe level. Scientists warn there is also the potential that geo storm could disrupt communications or effect the power grids.

CNN meteorologist Chad Myers here with the details.

So, Chad, how broad? Will we see this and what effect will it have?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Sorry, Jim. Well, our power is out here at CNN. So, we are on diesel, we're on generator power, exactly what we had expected though, from a solar storm. Sometimes you're going to get surges, sometimes you're going to get outages. You need to protect those electronics that are in your home because this is going to go on all night probably by tomorrow morning, we're going to be okay. We'll let you know, obviously, in the morning.

But all those things that don't like big power flashes, power surges, they are in some trouble for tonight if you are connected to obviously a grid that goes up and down, up and down for power fluctuations, for voltage, possibly. This is what happened, big coronal mass ejection came out of the sun and this is the area now. We're pushing this coronal mass ejection right toward the Earth. Yes, it came out of that sunspot as it was spinning around, moving

toward the earth especially later on this evening and also about 2:00 a.m. for a peak. One of these surges that just came through just now right there just landed on earth and charged to the atmosphere, charge the atmosphere with magnets, with plasma, and all of a sudden the power lines out there, those are all getting charged as well.

Be careful out there, be safe. It is not dangerous to humans, but as dangerous to your power and your electronics for sure out there.

SCIUTTO: Wow. See you in his feeling that there in Atlanta.

Chad Myers, thanks so much.

Please be sure to join special coverage, CNN "NEWSNIGHT", "Solar Storm". That starts at 10:00 p.m. Eastern here in Washington, 10:00 a.m. in Hong Kong, all right here on CNN.

And before we go today, a passing to note. Jack Quinn, a White House counsel under Bill Clinton, chief of staff to vice president Al Gore and veteran of several Democratic congressional and presidential campaigns died this week.

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He was a working class kid who made good, the son of a homemaker and an engineer for Con Ed Power, growing up in Long Island. He was the first in his family to go to college, to Georgetown then to Georgetown Law. Rob Liberator, Jack's freshman college roommate, said that Jack was, quote, brilliant though he never came to class, apparently, didn't have to, as he somehow still managed great grades.

I should say Jack was a close personal friend of mine. We were a generation apart in age, but as I told him and his family many times, as graduates of rival all-boys Catholic high schools in New York, we shared a very similar upbringing and education, in many good ways and some tougher ones.

Jack wrote a poem in a recent holiday card to family and friends that included this line: May we seek opportunities to love and help serve and never take unfair advantage.

Those words very much reflected his values as a father, husband to Susanna there, and friend, and in a life of public service. Jack was a youthful 74 and we will miss him.

Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next and I do hope you have a good weekend with your family.