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Trump Holds Jersey Shore Rally After Explosive Week In A Court; IDF Orders Immediate Evacuation Of Neighborhoods In Eastern Rafah; US Report Investigates If Israel Violated International Law In Gaza; Judge Warns Michael Cohen To Stop Talking About Trump Trial; Courtroom Stage Is Set For Star Witness Michael Cohen; Virginia School Board Votes To Restore Confederate Names. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 11, 2024 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[00:00:43]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

Former President Trump goes from the courtroom to the campaign trail. He is about to start speaking to supporters at a rally on the Jersey Shore. It is his first rally since adult film star, Stormy Daniels took the stand in his hush money trial in New York City.

And now, Trump remains under a gag order. The judge in his trial has threatened the former president with jail time if he violates that order again, which would include talking about any of the witnesses.

Plus, Trump's former fixer, Michael Cohen, the key witness for the prosecution set to take the stand now on Monday.

So why is Trump choosing New Jersey for his campaign rally? It's not exactly Trump country, but where he is actually speaking is. CNN's Alayna Treene joining us now, live with more.

Alayna, New Jersey, a blue state, pretty reliably, but he has found that pocket that is very supportive of him.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: He has, and as you can see behind me, Jessica, this rally has already started. And you can see that he has a ton of supporters here, a ton of rally goers, and Wildwood, New Jersey, part of the Jersey Shore is also in Cape May District, which is a very red district. It actually went for Donald Trump in the last two elections, despite him losing the overall state of New Jersey to Biden in 2020 by roughly 16 points.

I also just want to address something that he brought up in your intro there, which is that Donald Trump is still under a gag order. I think it is going to be very difficult for the former president to avoid being able to attack people like Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen at this point during the trial.

We are just off the heels of a very explosive testimony from Stormy Daniels this past week and he knows that Michael Cohen, his former fixer, is testifying on Monday and something I consistently hear behind the scenes from Donald Trump's advisers is that they think it is unfair that the witnesses are able to tell their side of the story, and that Donald Trump can, and it is something Donald Trump is clearly very angry about behind the scenes.

So keep that in mind for when Donald Trump takes the stage in just a few moments.

The other thing I want to point out about New Jersey is it is interesting that they are here picking a battleground -- or excuse me, a state that is not a battleground state, New Jersey, as you mentioned, is very blue.

Trump's campaign argues that they think they have been able to get some supporters here and some media attention from the nearby actual battleground state of Pennsylvania, but at the end of the day, it is an interesting choice particularly because Donald Trump really hasn't campaigned that much on the sidelines of this trial.

This is his third rally since the trial began, really only a second day of actual campaigning since the trial began and so when I talked to other Republicans, they admit and acknowledge that it is kind of odd that he chose to campaign in New Jersey and not a more critical battleground state for his campaign ahead of November -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right, Alayna Treene for us in Wildwood New Jersey, thanks so much for that reporting.

And I want to bring in CNN senior political analyst and senior editor at "The Atlantic," Ron Brownstein.

Ron, great to see you.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hey, Jessica.

DEAN: Trump has said and has complained again and again, he wants to be on the campaign trail. This is keeping him off the campaign trail, but he gets this day off from court and he is choosing New Jersey, which of course is close to where he has his golf club in Bedminster, also in New Jersey, but it is a blue state.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

DEAN: Is this just a morale boost for him, with friendly faces and adoring fans? I mean, I guess you could argue he will get some mileage out of the Philadelphia television market.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, who doesn't want to go to the Jersey Shore?

DEAN: I know.

BROWNSTEIN: I will forgive him. I will forgive him for that, but look, I mean, it is a broader issue, right? Which is that there are a lot of Republicans who are uneasy. Donald Trump has never been a kind of vigorous campaigner, in terms of doing a lot of appearances.

There is a lot of hand-wringing and concern in Republican circles that they are not building the campaign organizations that they will ultimately need if it is a photo finish kind of close race in many of the swing states.

You know, at the moment, they are doing fine in swing-state polling, even better than they are, I think, in national polling. So there is less pressure on him than there might be.

But if as the year goes on, if in fact the situation tightens in many of these swing states, I think there is going to be a lot of anxiety among Republicans about the time they lost in the spring.

[18:05:08]

Forget about his campaigning, just building the building blocks of a campaign in these states, which is not happening at the rate that many local Republicans expected or hoped.

DEAN: Yes, and Alayna brought this up, but he is of course still subject to that gag order that he has now violated multiple times. The judge in the case has said that if he keeps doing it, he is going to put him in jail. He doesn't want to do that.

How hard do you think it is going to be tonight for him to not violate -- we've seen him kind of shift who he goes after. Now, he goes after the judge, which is allowed under the gag order.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, you know, the thing is, Donald Trump is running for president, and that has a certain set of expectations with it and he is also someone who has spent his whole life really behaving as though he believes the rules that apply to others don't apply to him, so it is kind of in character that he is lashing out in all of these ways against all of these prosecutors and judges that we have seen for months.

But in this instance, he is a criminal defendant, right? And he is ultimately subject to the same restrictions that other criminal defendants face.

The judge, if anything has been extremely accommodating and obviously does not want to take the step of putting Trump in any kind of prison like or even some people liken it too illegal time-out kind of circumstance, but he is a criminal defendant and ultimately the judge does have to defend kind of the sanctity of the criminal justice system at times that it seemed as though Trump is daring him to give him some kind of sanction like that, but we will see again tonight how far he goes.

DEAN: Yes, and Alayna Treene has some newer reporting that Robert Kennedy, Jr.'s campaign has gone from a perceived nuisance to a political problem in the eyes of the Trump campaign. They're not categorizing it as a threat, but they're describing the Kennedy campaign as a problem.

What do you make of that?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, look, it is very hard to calculate exactly how Kennedy is going to affect each state. I mean, in general, I think it is hard -- two elections have shown us that it is very difficult for Donald Trump to get to 50 percent of the votes, so anything that reduces the number you need to win in these states, in some ways, benefits him.

But I think what you're were going to see is both Biden and Trump highlight the aspects of Kennedy that are most repellant in effect to their own voters. I mean, from the point of view of the Trump campaign, they want to highlight that he is an environmentalist and you know, kind of tag him with the Green New Deal from the Biden campaign. They really want to stress that he is an anti-vax kind of extremist and a way to kind of appeal to those.

But each side, I think in the end is going to see Kennedy as something that could either be a weapon wielded against them or for them on the other side, depending on who they can kind of define him as attractive to and whose they can define him as ideologically unacceptable to.

So it is going to be a very complex and fluid situation, and I bet there is going to be a fair amount of third party spending, independent spending (AUDIO GAP)/conspiracy theory elements to the Kennedy campaign in a way designed to make it more attractive and more or less attractive to either side.

DEAN: And it is going to be really interesting to see how that plays out.

I also wanted to ask you about these comments from President Trump, who this week denounced Jewish voters who support President Joe Biden. We can listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The fact is that Crooked Joe hates Israel and he hates the Jewish people. There is no question about that and if Jewish people are going to vote for Joe Biden, they have to have their head examined. He is a disaster for Israel.

The problem is that he hates the Palestinians also and even more so, and he just doesn't know what to do. He is a confused man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Ron, what is he talking about? Is this effective at all well?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, it is reflective, I think in many ways of where we are.

Joe Biden obviously has been a staunch supporter of Israel for his entire career. The fact that even Joe Biden has been driven to the point that he has in terms of threatening to withhold offensive, not defense of offensive weapons from Israel if they invade Rafah, in my view is a testament to Bibi Netanyahu's legacy in American politics.

He essentially shattered the bipartisan consensus that made Israel unassailable in US politics for many years and left Israel almost entirely dependent on one and not entirely, almost increasingly dependent on one party, the most conservative elements of the Republican Party.

[18:10:10]

The fact is, is that a broad range of US voters including a substantial portion of Jews as well young voters and other elements in the Democratic coalition are deeply alienated from the way Israel and Netanyahu has pursued this war, and so Trump is trying to slice off a piece of the Jewish electorate which is roughly three-to-one Democratic.

But in so doing, he is sending an important reminder to all of those protesters on college campuses or elsewhere who are essentially saying they want to withhold their vote from Biden because he went too far down the road of enabling Netanyahu in this war.

The reality is, if they do that, Trump is making very clear they are going to empower someone who is going to give Netanyahu and Israel even more rope to pursue the war in Gaza the way they want, as well as Stephen Miller openly threatening Trump's top immigration adviser to deport pro-Palestinian demonstrators if they are returned to power in 2025.

So Trump's comments, I think are just very reflective of how the political debate about Israel has evolved in the US, and I think you can lay that almost -- you can lay that overwhelmingly at the doorstep of Netanyahu and his strategy really going back to the Clinton administration of allying with the right in the US and resisting, rejecting, renouncing pretty much anything Democratic presidents have asked him to do.

DEAN: All right, Ron Brownstein, great to have you. Thanks so much.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.

DEAN: The IDF is ordering more evacuations in Southern Gaza as it launches a new round of airstrikes in other parts of the territory just days after President Biden's threat to withhold offensive weapons.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:16:35]

DEAN: Tonight, we are tracking several new developments happening now in Gaza. Israel's military is ordering immediate evacuations in parts of Eastern Rafah, where more than a million Palestinians have been taking shelter.

The IDF saying about 300,000 people have so far fled. The evacuations happening following deadly overnight airstrikes in Northern and Central Gaza. Hospitals in the area say the strikes killed at least 47 people while another 15 were killed in separate strikes in Rafah earlier today. The IDF appearing to intensify its military operations just days after President Biden threatened to withhold weapons.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I made it clear that if they go into Rafah -- they haven't gone in Rafah yet -- if they go into Rafah, I am not supplying the weapons that have been used historically to deal with Rafah, to deal with the cities, that deal with that problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And now, a new State Department report investigating whether Israel violated international humanitarian law threatens to widen the rift between the two leaders of those countries.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez is traveling with President Biden this weekend in Seattle. Priscilla, what does this new report say? And how is the Biden administration responding?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Jessica, this was a high stakes and highly anticipated report that just marks another stark moment between the US and Israel over Israel's war against Hamas in Gaza.

Now, this report was put together by the Biden administration, and it felt that it found that it is "reasonable" to assess that US weapons have been used by Israeli forces in Gaza in ways that are "inconsistent" with international humanitarian law. But it did stop short of saying Israel violated that law.

Now, of course this sounds from that February National Security memorandum that required a determination on this matter, and also whether Israel withheld humanitarian aid from Gaza in violation of US law. And while it is critical, it doesn't amount to any actions or mandate actions by the Israeli government or mark any type of US policy change toward Israel.

In fact, the Biden administration officials have said that it marks -- it is another tool that they can use in their ongoing discussions with Israel, but of course, this comes against the backdrop of that interview that you just played there where President Biden said for the first time that he may withhold some weapons from Israel if they embark in a major ground operation in Rafah. Of course, that is where more than a million Palestinians have fled after being displaced. And the administration doesn't see it as tenable for Israel to go into Rafah at this point.

And so while the president has made clear, he is willing to continue defensive weapons, that could very well change with offensive weapons. So all of this to say, Jessica, there is still underlying tensions here between the US and Israel over this war. This report to marking another moment in those tensions.

DEAN: And priscilla, we did mention you're in Seattle with the president. He has been fundraising on the West Coast, kind of all along the West Coast this weekend. What is the campaign's goal for this trip?

ALVAREZ: Well, the campaign is trying to maintain their cash advantage over their Republican rival, former President Donald Trump. Fundraising has been a bright spot for the Biden campaign. They are trying to keep that up now.

As you mentioned, the president was in the Bay Area yesterday where he held fundraisers and he was here in Seattle where he also held some fundraisers. That trip has now concluded. He is heading back to the East Coast, but while he was behind closed doors, he did needle his rival Donald Trump.

[18:20:10]

He said today behind closed doors that the former president is called unhinged and also that something snapped in him after the 2020 election, so clearly the president kneeling his rival while also trying to draw a stark contrast with him and continuing to keep the focus on issues that his own campaign is really capitalizing on like abortion, protecting democracy, and health care.

So all of this, just a continuation of what the president has done, another West Coast swing this year to continue to bring in that fundraising.

DEAN: All right, Priscilla Alvarez in Seattle with President Biden. Thanks so much for that reporting.

Joining us now is CNN military analysts, Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Colonel, great to have you.

I first want to start with this State Department report that doesn't go so far as to say that Israel violated international law, but it is certainly, it had plenty to say. The report saying, "Israel has the knowledge, experience, and tools to implement best practices for mitigating civilian harm in its military operations" from what we've seen with the types of weapons used and in those areas those have been used in.

Is this report surprising to you?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Oh, not completely, Jessica.

I think, it is very interesting how they phrased everything and basically what they are saying here is that Israel has the targeting processes, the structures in place, the organization in place to conduct targeting in accordance with international humanitarian law, but it has apparently fallen short in the sense that it has not used those processes to the fullest extent possible.

So what does that mean? That really means that Israel has the capability to do the kinds of things that we would expect over the US Armed Forces, but it hasn't quite reached that level of operational -- you know, basically making these things work in an operational sense, and that prevents itself with the difficulty.

We see that the Israelis are using a lot of force in Rafah, but they are not targeting in a very specific fashion, and that is the kind of thing that is not only true for Rafah, but also true for all of Gaza.

DEAN: And President Biden has already paused the shipment of 2,000- pound bombs and has threatened to withhold more offensive weapons, including artillery shells.

Israel says, it is going to continue with this mission to defeat Hamas, despite that ultimatum. What type of an impact do you think those types of bombs could have on a place like Rafah?

LEIGHTON: Well, 2,000-pound bombs by themselves are actually not precision-guided munitions. There is something that we should clarify in order to actually be a precision-guided munition. The 2,000-pound bomb, a special kit associated with it, attached to it, which is called the JDAM dem or Joined Direct Attack Munition, but putting that aside for a second, the 2,000-pound bombs would cause a lot of damage, a lot of collateral damage.

And what that would mean is, even if they were precisely targeting a specific area, like a specific tunnel entrance or something like that, what would happen is there would be a lot of damage in spite of any effort to contain that damage and that is what the Biden administration is attempting to prevent.

They are trying to contain that damage. They are trying to make sure that the Israelis target only very specific areas, and this is really difficult military problem for the Israeli Defense Forces because of the way in which Hamas has integrated itself into the Gazan society, and basically physically integrated its tunnel system into the living quarters of Gazans, whether they were in Rafah or any other part of Gaza.

This has been a problem for Israel throughout the war and it is very difficult to precisely target any type of Hamas entity without affecting civilians in a very bad way.

DEAN: Right, and just to give people context, my understanding is these 2,000-pound bombs are some of the biggest ones that we have.

LEIGHTON: They are some of the biggest ones, but we also have bombs that are -- there is one that's called the Mother of All Bombs or MOAB, which is ten times as big as a -- more than ten times as big as the 2,000-pound bomb.

So there are several bombs in the US arsenal that are bigger than that. The Israelis are reputed to have some bombs like that, but they have not used them in Gaza. There is also the idea that the Israelis have other bombs that are of a smaller variety that could be used in this, so they have plenty of bombs where they can still conduct these operations. But they wouldn't benefit from US bombs, at least, those that are not in their line of supply at the present time.

DEAN: So I am curious, just in your experience and expertise then, knowing what you just laid out that because it is difficult that Hamas has the tunnels that are intertwined with a lot of civilian life there that does make it hard.

[18:25:10]

But what can be done that's not just dropping a giant bomb? Is there an in-between that is effective?

LEIGHTON: There were several in-betweens, Jessica and what the United States is trying to do get the Israelis to concentrate in a way that would use intelligence for precise attacks so the Israeli obviously do use intelligence from what they're doing right now.

But what they want to do is they want to get -- the US wants to get the Israelis to focus on very specific targets and to use special operations forces and other means like that to go in after those targets. So, for example, if you want to attack a leader like Yahya Sinwar, for example, the head of Hamas in Gaza, then you would target that specific individual and not the area around that individual.

So that is basically what they are trying to do in essence, think of it as going for a Bin Laden raid as opposed to bombing in entire city block.

DEAN: All right, Colonel Cedric Leighton, always great to see you. Thanks so much.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Jessica.

DEAN: All right, three weeks into Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial, we are still waiting for the prosecution's most anticipated witness, though, how testimony from Trump's longtime fixer could impact the trial.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:48]

DEAN: The stage is now set for a high-stakes showdown in Donald Trump's hush money trial on Monday as former fixer and attorney Michael Cohen is expected to take the stand and testify about negotiating the alleged hush money payment, all to keep potentially devastating news about an affair quiet before the 2016 election.

On Friday, the judge told prosecutors to tell Michael Cohen to stop talking about Trump and the trial ahead of his testimony, after he was taunting Trump on social media with posts like the one you see here. CNN's Kara Scannell has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Prosecutor star witness Michael Cohen is expected to testify on Monday in former president Donald Trump's hush money trial. Cohen, Trump's former attorney and fixer, is at the crux of the criminal case against him. Prosecutors say Cohen paid off adult film star Stormy Daniels on Trump's behalf to kill her story of an alleged affair before the 2016 election. Trump denies the affair.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Somebody paid a lawyer, and in paying the lawyer, so it was a legal expense, that somebody happened to be me. I didn't do the bookkeeping. I didn't even know about it. This is what the case is about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL (voice over): Cohen told his Political Beatdown podcast co- host on Thursday that he looks forward to testifying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL COHEN, DONALD TRUMP'S FORMER ATTORNEY: The sooner this thing starts, the sooner this thing finishes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL (voice over): After a defense request, Judge Juan Merchan told prosecutors he wants Cohen to keep quiet about the case before he takes the stand, but he can't issue a gag order on a witness. Something Trump expressed frustration about --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: There is no gag order to Michael Cohen. What the judge did was amazing, actually. It was amazing. Everybody can say whatever they want. They can say whatever they want. But I'm not allowed to say anything about anybody. It's a disgrace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL (voice over): Today, prosecutors called witnesses to the stand to help lay the groundwork for Cohen's upcoming testimony. An AT&T analyst introduced Cohen's phone records and back on the stand, Trump's former White House aide, Madeleine Westerhout, testified about Trump's reaction to the release of Daniels' story in 2018.

Westerhout testified Trump was upset by it, and her understanding was that it would be hurtful to his family. She later clarified Trump did not specifically speak about his family in that conversation. Trump's lawyer suggested he made the $130,000 hush money payoff to Daniels in order to protect his family. Meanwhile, prosecutors argue he did it to influence the 2016 election, which was two weeks away, and came on the heels of the Access Hollywood tape damaging his campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL (voice over): Trump's lawyer, Susan Necheles, asked Westerhout about the process of Trump signing checks. Westerhout said Trump would sign them while multitasking, doing things like talking on the phone or meeting with people. She described FedExing the signed checks back to The Trump Organization.

Prosecutors used Westerhout to show the chain of command of checks, like the one sent to Cohen to reimburse him for the hush money. Cohen testified before Congress about the allegations in 2019.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIJAH CUMMINGS, (D) FORMER UNITED STATES REPRESENTATIVE, MARYLAND: Donald Trump wrote you a check out of his personal account while he was serving as president of the United States of America to reimburse you for hush money payments?

COHEN: Yes, Mr. Chairman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL (voice over): SCANNELL: Today, another witness, a paralegal at the district attorney's office, read one of Trump's tweets about the monthly payments to Cohen, which Trump called a retainer. Trump said, "Mr. Cohen, an attorney, received a monthly retainer, not from the campaign and having nothing to do with the campaign."

The tweet came around the time his former lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, told Fox News Host Sean Hannity that Trump reimbursed Cohen for the hush money, that Cohen paid for it out of his own pocket.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, DONALD TRUMP'S FORMER ATTORNEY: Having something to do with paying some Stormy Daniels woman $130,000, I mean, which is going to turn out to be perfectly legal. That money was not campaign money.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: They funneled it through the law firm.

GIULIANI: Funneled through law firm and the president repaid it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCANNELL (voice over): That kept a week where the jury saw the documents that were allegedly falsified, the invoices, the general ledger entries and the checks.

[18:35:00]

They also heard from the woman at the center of these hush money payments, Stormy Daniels. Next week, Michael Cohen will be facing off in court against the man he once said he would take a bullet for. Prosecutors say they may rest their case by the end of the week.

DEAN: All right. Kara Scannell for us, thanks so much for that update.

Let's discuss now with former Trump White House lawyer, now a CNN Legal Commentator, Jim Schultz. Jim, good to see you. Prosecutors have been building to this moment on Monday when Michael Cohen, the man really at the center of this, takes the stand. He said he's ready, that the sooner he gets this over with, the sooner it gets started, the sooner this will be over. And we have watched the prosecutors really trying to make sure he has a very firm foundation, that he's not the only one that has to put forth all of this testimony, that he's really going to be corroborating what other people, perhaps without an ax to grind, have been saying. Do you think they've been effective at doing that, since he is kind of an X factor? His background is a bit of an X factor as a witness?

JIM SCHULTZ, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: What they haven't done successfully yet is kind of make that connection between the payment and then the record keeping associated with that payment, and tied it back to Donald Trump. If they're relying on Michael Cohen for that, and Michael Cohen only, in terms of direct evidence, they're going to have a real problem, because his credibility is in question here.

He's had issues and perjured himself in the past. He - they're going to portray him as having a vendetta against Trump. And a vendetta against Trump because he didn't end up in the White House. He so wanted to go into the White House. He wanted to be part of the campaign. They didn't allow him to be part of the campaign according to Hope Hicks testimony. He wanted to be in that inner circle so badly, and they're going to try to portray it that he would do anything to get inside, and this was just another way to get there. I think that's what they're going to be doing with Michael Cohen.

DEAN: What do you think this face-to-face encounter is going to look like for these two men to be ...

SCHULTZ: I think you're going to have ...

DEAN: ... right next to each other?

SCHULTZ: Yes, I think you're going to have a lot of tension in the room. There's no love lost between the two of them. I think Michael Cohen is itching to get on the stand. I think he's been looking forward to this day. He's looking forward to telling his story, in whatever that story may be.

And I - and like I said, the - he said - I think they said he wanted to get it over with in that quote. I mean, this is real - up until this moment, Michael Cohen's like one of the most popular people in the world right now. People are listening to Michael Cohen. After this testimony, I'm not so sure they will be.

DEAN: Do you think it's going to test President Trump's self-control? Because we saw him during Stormy Daniels, he would get really annoyed, and the judge had to say to his attorneys, like, please tell him to kind of knock it off. Because his desire and kind of the way he's built, is to attack back.

SCHULTZ: Yes. Look, I think this one definitely tests him. And look, the judge recognized that too by telling Cohen, no more tweets prior to your testimony, right? So I think the judge is recognizing that. Certainly, it's going to take a lot of restraint on President Trump's part, especially during the testimony, especially if it goes multiple days, which I suspect it will. I think he's going to have a hard time not getting out on Truth Social and banging back, and going out, walking out of the courtroom, and attacking Michael Cohen. Because he feels like Michael Cohen's been attacking him the whole time.

DEAN: Right. And that he hasn't gotten to speak out against him. How does the defense approach this cross-examination? You kind of said a little bit about it. And when we were talking a little bit earlier, that they can go after him in certain ways, but what do you - how do you think they're going to play this?

SCHULTZ: They're going to attack him as - they're going to make the argument, and they're going to ask him questions that will allude that he's a perjurer, he's a liar, he had a vendetta, he wanted to get in the White House, couldn't get in the White House. He saw this is his way in, and would do anything to get there, including make this deal and be part of the business records deal that took place, and that Donald Trump had nothing to do with it. This is how they're going to try to portray this.

I think he's going to come out likely and say that Donald Trump had everything to do with it, and it's really going to be left in the jury's hands as to who they believe. So it's going to be all about attacking the credibility of Michael Cohen, while the prosecution is going to try and build him up.

DEAN: Mm-hmm. And we saw Stormy Daniels testifying for more than six hours for the prosecution. Do you think that her being on the witness stand was worth the risk for the prosecution?

SCHULTZ: I think there was a big risk for the prosecution in terms of going that far down the road, in terms of the line of questioning that they went to, in terms of going into the detail that they went into. But again, they were trying to show that Donald Trump had every reason to kill this thing before the election. And they did that, they were trying to do that through her testimony.

I'm not sure they needed to go that far. I think a payment to a former porn star certainly is enough that that - in the world of politics to show that he wouldn't have wanted it there.

[18:40:06]

I don't know that they needed to go that far. Might have gone so far that the judge even acknowledged it shouldn't have come in. And he did question the defense not objecting enough. I think the defense's strategy there was, look, we don't want to hit over and over and over again on this because it draws more attention to the testimony, and it's likely not sitting well with the jury. And that's a strategic decision they likely had to make.

DEAN: And do you think also, too, they were setting it up that if they - if there was a conviction that part of that could be within their appeal, that some of that testimony ...

SCHULTZ: Yes, I think that's ...

DEAN: Yes.

SCHULTZ: ... yes, I think that's going to be front and center on the appeal, right? They did preserve their objections. The judge actually objected himself and was interjecting himself. That creates a record and that's certainly going to be one of many appealable issues that they're going to take up after this trial, should he be convicted.

DEAN: All right. Jim Schultz for us, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

SCHULTZ: Thank you.

DEAN: A Virginia school board is bringing back the names of Confederate leaders just a few years after banning them. And the move is sparking cheers and outrage from both parents and students. You'll hear from them all ahead in CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:57]

DEAN: Tonight, two public schools in Virginia are getting new names. Actually, they're old names, the names of Confederate officers. On Friday, Shenandoah County School Board voted to revert the names from before the racial reckoning of 2020. CNN's Rafael Romo joins me now with more on all of this.

And Rafael, it sounds like this community is fiercely divided over this decision.

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, fiercely divided is a great way to put it, Jessica. Let's remember, first of all, that it's been less than four years since the Shenandoah County School Board changed the names of two schools in their district named after Confederate leaders. The 2020 move was part of a resolution condemning racism and affirming its commitment to an inclusive school environment, according to school board documents.

But in a marathon meeting that started Thursday evening and ended early Friday morning, the board voted five to one in favor of restoring those names. The schools have been called Mountain View High School and Honey Run Elementary School since July 2021. Now they will be called Stonewall Jackson High School and Ashby-Lee Elementary School. Of course, the schools have been named after Confederate generals Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, Robert E. Lee and Turner Ashby. Earlier today, CNN spoke with Warren Christian, the great, great grandson of Stonewall Jackson. My colleague, Victor Blackwell, asked him his take on the divisive issue, and this was part of his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN CHRISTIAN, GREAT-GREAT GRANDSON OF "STONEWALL" JACKSON: Well, honestly, I don't think it should matter so much what I have to say about it. The school board shouldn't particularly care what I have to say, and I can't imagine they do. But I think who they should listen to is their own students.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: And he also said he's saddened and disappointed by the reversal. At the same time, he also praised a student who spoke at the board meeting for having the courage of taking a position at such an early age. The eighth grader said the board needs to make decisions that are in the best interest of all students.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALIYAH OGLE, 8TH GRADE STUDENT: You cannot ignore the heritage and feelings of your black and brown students just because we are the minority. It is your job to make our schools a place where all students are valued and respected. The names Mountain View and Honey Run do not devalue and disrespect an entire race of people, but the names Ashby-Lee and Stonewall Jackson do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: Now, Jessica, others speaking at the meeting said for them that this is also about preserving a part of American history that is important to some people especially in the south. I have to say that CNN reached out to the Shenandoah County school board members.

Gloria Carlineo, one of those members told us her vote was based on how the names were changed in 2020. Carlineo said the decision was made in a matter of days and with COVID-19 restrictions that limited the community's input. Jessica, back to you.

DEAN: Rafael Romo, thanks so much for that update. And we'll be right back.

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[18:53:28]

DEAN: The debate around transgender athletes, particularly transgender women and their participation in sports has evoked vigorous discussions amongst policymakers. And tomorrow, on "THE WHOLE STORY with Anderson Cooper," we meet athletes like Megan, who must weigh the emotional toll of competing as a transgender woman on the men's team until it became too much. Her story is part of the new documentary, "The Playing Field: The Battle Over Transgender Athletes."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lane four for Remco (ph) would be Meg Cortez- Fields.

MEGHAN CORTEZ-FIELDS, TRANSGENDER ATHLETE: Wearing a men's suit, having to tape my breast, even just competing against men ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cortez-Fields separating himself.

CORTEZ-FIELDS: And it starts to hurt more because it feels like a part of you is dying and wilting away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cortez-Fields looking to finish strong.

CORTEZ-FIELDS: I believed I needed to sacrifice being trans in order to swim. I was like, I just - I have to. But like, I just couldn't anymore. I want to switch teams and my goal is to compete on the women's team.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Be sure to watch "THE WHOLE STORY with Anderson Cooper, The Playing Field: The Battle Over Transgender Athletes." It's tomorrow night at eight, Eastern and Pacific, only here on CNN.

Former President Donald Trump is holding a rally in New Jersey right now. We'll tell you how he's using the rare campaign opportunity to once again rip President Biden and blame the White House for his criminal hush money trial.

[18:54:54]

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DEAN: You're in the CNN Newsroom. Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

And after spending most of the week in a New York City courtroom, former President Donald Trump is down the shore in New Jersey this weekend. He's speaking to supporters now just south of Atlantic City, where his name was atop casinos and hotels years ago until they went bankrupt.

Trump has been bristling against the gag order in the hush money trial.

[19:00:01]

The judge saying Trump may not publicly talk about Stormy Daniels testimony this week or his former fixer and lawyer Michael Cohen, who's due to take the stand for the prosecution on Monday.