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About 300,000 Have Fled Rafah As Israel Launches New Attacks; Michael Cohen Due To Take The Stand On Monday; Trump Claims RFK, JR. Is Democrat Plant To Help Biden; Putin Expected To Meet With Xi In China This Month; Surfer Works To Save Coral Reefs. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired May 12, 2024 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:30]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

And tonight the Hamas-run Ministry of Health saying the number of Palestinians killed in Gaza since the start of the war has now surpassed 35,000. This as the Israeli military launches new attacks ahead of a major ground offensive in the southern city of Rafah. Israeli troops moving in on the eastern part of that city as well, as well Central and Northern Gaza where the IDF claims Hamas is trying to rebuild.

More than 300,000 civilians have now fled Rafah since Monday. That's according to the U.N., which has called it a, quote, "inhumane displacement of Palestinians."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There is no safe place. It's been the same story the seven ordinary times we've moved. There is no safe place. Wherever we go, there's bombardment. There was bombardment at the Indonesian hospital and the doctors and medics were forced out. I had to leave like everyone else. I don't know what to say. Is this life? Death is more honorable than this humiliation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: CNN senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak is traveling with President Biden and joins us now from Delaware.

Kevin, how is the White House responding as we see Israel's military ramp up operations there in Rafah, which at this point seem to be undeterred by the president's warning earlier this week?

KEVIN LIPTAK: CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, very much so. And you continue to hear American officials warned strongly against a ground offensive in Rafah really channeling President Biden's view that American weapons cannot be used to support an operation that in their view would be ill advised and very, very bloody. We heard those concerns raised again today in a phone call between the U.S. national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, and his counterpart in Israel. And Jessica, I think this was a significant phone call. It's the first

time we've seen an announced conversation between the White House and the government of Israel since President Biden delivered that ultimatum on CNN that he would pause shipments of certain weapons to Israel if this offensive into Rafah goes ahead. In that call, Sullivan discussed alternatives to a ground invasion and very interestingly, the White House said that his counterpart, the Israeli national security adviser, said that those concerns were being taken into account.

But at the end of the day, the issues that President Biden has with the ground invasion into Rafah are not new. He has been raising them for months with the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, really going back to February when he first raised them in a phone call, that has not deterred Netanyahu from moving ahead. His view is that in order to completely eliminate Hamas, they need to go into Rafah.

That is completely at odds with what we have heard from American officials today including the American Secretary of State Antony Blinken who said that a ground offensive into Rafah could lead to a Hamas insurgency. Listen to a little bit more of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: And they will be left holding the bag on an enduring insurgency because a lot of armed Hamas will be left no matter what they do in Rafah, or if they leave and get out of Gaza as we believe they need to do, then you're going to have a vacuum and a vacuum that's likely to be filled by chaos, by anarchy, and ultimately by Hamas again. We need to see that, too.

We have the same objective as Israel. We want to make sure that Hamas cannot govern Gaza again. We want to make sure it's demilitarized. We want to make sure that Israel gets its leaders. That's what we're determined to do. We have a different way and we think a more effective durable way of getting that done. We'll remain in conversation with Israel about exactly that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: Now, Blinken also said today that the U.S. believes Israel has killed more civilians than members of Hamas during this current campaign. He also said the U.S. has not seen a plan from Israel about governance and security in Gaza once this war ends. Taken all together, these are some of the harshest words that we've heard from the Biden administration directed towards Israel since the start of this conflict. It really does go to show that this relationship and this war itself are reaching an inflection point -- Jessica.

DEAN: Kevin Liptak for us, traveling with the president in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware. Thanks so much.

Let's talk more with this with CNN political and global affairs analyst Barak Ravid. He's a politics and foreign policy reporter at "Axios." Barak, always great to have you on. Thanks for making time on this

Sunday evening. We appreciate it, First, I just want to get your take and if you can contextualize for us what we're seeing and what it means as we see these Israeli forces pushing deeper into Rafah today?

[19:05:05]

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Good evening, Jessica. So first I think we have to know the Israeli military is still not in Rafah. It is in the Rafah crossing, which is on the eastern outskirts of Rafah City, started evacuating the eastern neighborhoods of Rafah, but the Israeli military still did not go into the city. And I think there's a good reason for it.

I think the reason is at least for now, President Biden's ultimatum. And the Israelis, as far as I understand, are going to give another few days for completing the evacuation of the eastern neighborhoods before they take a decision on whether to go in. And I wouldn't be surprised at all. We saw it in the statement the White House put out on the conversation between National Security adviser Jake Sullivan and his Israeli counterpart.

They spoke about the possibility of holding an in-person meeting between Israel and the Biden administration about the Rafah operation. A meeting that was supposed to take place two months ago and Netanyahu canceled it. And since then there were only virtual meetings. So I think that if you see that they're talking about holding such an in- person meeting, it means that maybe nobody is going to go into Rafah at least in the next few days.

DEAN: It is such important context that you give there. I was interviewing a member of the Knesset last night and asking him what he thought about Biden's decision to specifically withhold the bombs. And of course he said he was disappointed that they had to push ahead. But that's what people will say publicly.

Barak, should we read in more on what is happening? What kind of meetings like what you're talking about is happening and the fact that they haven't gone in to Rafah proper just yet? Is that what we should be paying more attention to?

RAVID: I think that, you know, we just heard what Secretary Blinken said earlier today. What he said is the exact same thing that Netanyahu hears from his IDF chief of staff Major General Herzi Halevi. It's the exact same thing you use from his minister of defense, Yoav Gallant. It's exact thing he hears from two members of his war cabinet, former IDF chiefs of staff, Benny Gantz and Gadi Eisenkot. They all tell him one thing. You want to go into Rafah, let's have a discussion about what's the strategic goal?

What do we want to do after we take Rafah? How do we want to see the situation over there? And this is what he hears from his own cabinet, his is what he hears from his own security services, and this is what he hears from the Biden administration. And I'll give you another anecdote. Today, the IDF went into Jabalia neighborhood in northern Gaza. It was the third time the IDF went there. Every time the IDF went in, it went out, Hamas came back.

Why did they come back? Because the Israeli government has refused until now to even have a discussion about whether there is an alternative, a governmental alternative that you can put in to those areas of Gaza where Hamas was defeated and because you don't do that every time you take the military out, Hamas comes back in.

DEAN: Why is Netanyahu so reticent to have that conversation, do you think?

RAVID: Because there are only two kinds of forces that can govern Gaza. It's either Hamas or the remanence of the Palestinian Authority. And Netanyahu said publicly climbed high up on the tree and said the Palestinian Authority or anybody who's affiliated with the Palestinian Authority will not govern Gaza, will not allow it. His radical right- wing coalition partners, ultra-nationalist ministers, Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, has basically put an ultimatum that if you put the PA back into Gaza, we're leaving the coalition.

So it's all about domestic politics, and, you know, Minister of Defense Gallant, other members of the cabinet, the security services, all tell him, look, the alternative to Hamas is Fatah, it's the Palestinian Authority. If we don't want that, we're either going to have chaos or we're going to have Hamas back. And this is exactly what we see in Gaza right now.

DEAN: And so to that end, you're talking about the domestic political situation there. We're showing video right now of thousands of Israelis taking to the streets of Tel Aviv yesterday demanding Netanyahu do more to secure the release of the hostages. Some of them calling on him to step down.

Can you speak to the amount of pressure that he is under there in Israel from his own people?

RAVID: Tomorrow, in Israel, it's Memorial Day. Israel commemorates the -- its fallen soldiers since 1948 until today. And the day later is Israel's Independence Day.

[19:10:01]

And this year Netanyahu is not going to appear in any of the Independence Day ceremony. This is highly unusual and the reason he is not appearing in those ceremony is because he's afraid that there is going to be protest against him by people who attend those ceremonies. And this comes to show you the kind of pressure he is in.

If for a prime minister in Israel, Independence Day is the best day politically. He's basically on TV all day. And if Netanyahu decided he doesn't want to be in those ceremonies, it tells you something about his political situation.

DEAN: All right. Barak Ravid, always great to have you. Thanks so much.

RAVID: Thank you. DEAN: Still ahead, it has come down to the fixer against the former

president. How Michael Cohen's testimony could seal Donald Trump's fate as a felon or could his credibility problems sink the state's case?

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:15:41]

DEAN: The stage is set for a dramatic courtroom showdown on Monday as former attorney Michael Cohen takes the stand to testify against the man he once said he'd take a bullet for, his former boss Donald Trump. Cohen is expected to connect Trump to the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels to keep an allegedly damaging story quiet before the 2016 election.

Joining us now CNN national security reporter, Zachary Cohen.

Zach, Michael Cohen is going to be the final big witness in the prosecution's case. What will the prosecution tried to show the jury tomorrow and maybe over the next couple of days with his testimony?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jessica, Michael Cohen will be the only witness to testify both about Donald Trump's alleged involvement in the decision to pay Stormy Daniels and Trump's alleged involvement in the decision and the plan to reimburse Michael Cohen.

Now those are both critical to the prosecution's ultimate goal of proving that Donald Trump falsified those 34 business records that he's accused of doing so. That really underpinned the criminal charges in this case. The jury has already heard a lot about Michael Cohen and prosecutors made it very clear in their opening statements that he's a complicated and potentially problematic witness of sorts, and they've spent the last several weeks trying to prepare the jury for that reality.

Now, Michael Cohen is going to have to face a tense and significant cross-examination from Donald Trump's lead attorney, Todd Blanche, though, when he takes the stand and those questions will try to hit at Michael Cohen's credibility. They'll try to dig into Michael Cohen's past. He is a convicted liar and I'm sure that will be highlighted.

But they're also going to -- Todd Blanche will also try to suggest to the jury that Donald Trump really has no idea what deal Michael Cohen struck with Stormy Daniels nor what went into or how it was recorded ultimately after the fact. And that really will be the big question is whether or not the jury believes Michael Cohen and in the case that the prosecution has presented so far, or if there's enough holes poked in Michael Cohen's credibility to where there's reasonable doubt enough not to convict Donald Trump.

DEAN: All right. Zach Cohen, laying it all out for us. Thanks so much for that reporting. And I want to bring in our panel on this. Joining me is CNN legal

analyst Norm Eisen. Norm investigated Trump as counsel to House Judiciary Committee in the first impeachment trial of Donald Trump, and also litigated cases involving him previously. He's also the editor of the book "Trying Trump: A Guide to His -- the Complete Guide," sorry, "to the Manhattan D.A.'s Prosecution." Were also joined by former federal prosecutor Alyse Adamson.

I want to say thanks to both of you for being here.

Norm, let's start first with you. Prosecutors have waited to call Cohen until the end of the trial. Help us understand that strategy. And do you think it's a good one?

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I do think it's a good strategy, Jessica. And the reason is they want the jury to understand that everything Michael Cohen is saying on the stand is supported or corroborated by other evidence so, for example, Cohen will testify that Donald Trump was part of that payment to Stormy Daniels to benefit his campaign, setting up the underlying crime, alleged, of campaign finance and election law violations that you need to make this document falsification a felony.

Well, we had the trial opened by David Pecker, who testified he was in a meeting with Cohen, Donald Trump at Trump Tower where they agreed to do these kinds of deals in order to benefit the campaign. So as you go through step by step, they've built up a mountain of supporting and corroborating evidence so that instead of the jury taking a leap of faith, it's a small hop with Michael Cohen.

DEAN: A small hop as it were.

Alyse, what do you expect to see from the prosecutors and also the defense when it comes to Cohen?

ALYSE ADAMSON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes, Jessica. I think with respect to the prosecutors, kind of as Norm just alluded to, they are going to elicit testimony for Cohen to explain what the former president's intent was during this time, during these meetings. The prosecution needs to prove that he knew what was going on and that he made these decisions, as Norm said, in furtherance of benefiting his 2016 election, and Michael Cohen is going to provide that testimony.

[19:20:07]

I think you might also see the prosecution trying to front more bad facts and have Michael Cohen take control of his narrative and describe why some of his accounts have been inconsistent throughout the years and maybe even why he lied. And so that then ties into what the defense strategy is likely to be. The defense has to cross Michael Cohen aggressively. They have to attack his credibility.

They're going to hammer, expect to see them hammer in on those inconsistencies, really remind the jury that Michael Cohen has been convicted of lying, paint him as a serial liar, somebody that's out for revenge. I mean, he literally wrote a book called "Revenge." They're going to be aggressive because Michael Cohen is the linchpin to the prosecution here. And if he is found credible, the jury believes him, well, then the government has pretty much met their burden.

DEAN: Yes. And Norm, it's interesting because the prosecution has not been telegraphing, didn't give the courtesy list to the defense of who -- what order they would be calling the witnesses, when they will be calling them. They did that. They said because they were afraid that the former president would intimidate some of these witnesses, talk about them, even though he's under a gag order. But we do know Michael Cohen is coming on Monday because he's kind of the last big one.

So what does that mean in terms of the defense using the weekend to prepare? They've had time now to really zero in on this and focus as they get closer.

EISEN: The defense has been preparing for Mr. Cohen for many, many months. It's useful to know that he'll be there on Monday. The question is, will the defense be able to rattle him?

Jessica, when I did the first Trump impeachment, one of the very first witnesses I talked to was Michael Cohen because he knows where all the bodies are buried. We investigated this identical payment. And I was very surprised by the smart, funny, warm, but also very tough and clearly not very fond of Donald Trump person who I met in my repeated conversations with them. They will certainly come after him.

But I think Cohen may very well exceed expectations that people have. But I was there for the Stormy Daniels cross, and boy, they're going to come hammer and tongs, and we'll see how Mr. Cohen responds.

DEAN: And Alyse, when it comes to this gag order, the judge has repeatedly asked Trump to stop violating it and threatened jail time. The judge also told prosecutors to tell Michael Cohen to stop talking about Trump in this case publicly. The judge seems to know these two people really don't like each other. It's only going to inflame this whole situation if you know, any -- if Michael Cohen is out there posting pictures like he was earlier last week.

What do you think of this whole situation?

ADAMSON: You know, it's interesting because Michael Cohen is rather unpredictable. While he has been very well-prepped for this trial, we have seen in the past that he does antagonize the former president. And now we see the former president has been using his surrogates and I'm careful when I say using because, of course, if he is actually directing his surrogates to violate the gag order then he is in violation.

But we've seen his surrogates attending the trial, commenting on the trial on his behalf. I think we can definitely expect to see Trump allies going after Mr. Cohen. I think that's going to be skirting a very dangerous line because whether or not they're doing it on their own, or whether they're not -- they're doing it at the direction of Mr. Trump is going to be a question. It could also potentially be a distraction because the judge has

indicated he's ready to put the former president in jail if he violates the gag order. So I think most folks are hoping that, although the temperature is going to be rising, that, you know, perhaps the gag order will ultimately be respected in this regard, and they can just conclude the trial without distraction.

DEAN: And Norm, before we go, I do want to switch gears for a second and ask you about the trial of New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez, which is set to start this week. Jury selection starts tomorrow. What are you expecting out of that? It's the second time he's now facing down the feds.

EISEN: The senator and his very capable defense lawyer, Abbe Lowell, did a Houdini act in the first prosecution for alleged corruption.

[19:25:04]

Will they be able to escape again? The proof is even more overwhelming here on these allegations about contacts relating to Egypt and Qatar, evidence found in Menendez and his wife's home, gold bars, cash, even a Mercedes. There's DNA and fingerprint evidence on some of that cash. So no matter how tough the senator and Mr. Lowell, boy, this is going to be a hard one to escape from, Jessica.

DEAN: All right. And again, jury selection, that starts tomorrow.

Norm Eisen and Alyse Adamson, appreciate both of you. Thank you.

And stay with CNN for special trial coverage starting tomorrow morning.

Still ahead tonight, as RFK Jr. qualifies for the ballot -- for ballot access in battleground states, a Trump official calls RFK a problem, not a threat. CNN senior data reporter Harry Enten will join us to run the numbers on how RFK is doing in his run for the White House.

There's Harry. We'll be right back. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:30:36]

DEAN: RFK, Jr. seems to be irritating former President Trump more and more as Kennedy continues qualifying for ballot access in more states across the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: RFK, Jr. is a Democrat plant, a radical left liberal who has been put in place in order to help Crooked Joe Biden, the worst president in the history of the United States get re-elected.

So Republicans, get it out of your mind that you're going to vote for this guy because he is conservative, he is not. (END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: All right, let's discuss now with CNN senior data reporter, Harry Enten.

Harry, always good to see you on a Sunday. How well is RFK doing? Where is he eating into support for both Trump and Biden?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: You know, I have to say, former President Trump has been on the political scene now for what, eight years? Eight to nine years? And I still have to take my head back sometimes. I go, whoa, that's a different politician.

Anyway, look, let's take a look at what RFK is doing nationally. He is pulling in a pretty substantial chunk of the vote. He is averaging 13 percent in polls, and keep in mind why that is important, the threshold to debate is 15 percent, so if he is averaging 13 percent in the polls, that were previously used last time around that the media entities to determine debate eligibility, it is quite possible.

You know, we talk about RFK. We talked about the worms in his brain. We kind of sometimes think of him as a sideshow. But there is a reason why Donald Trump is going after him and it is because he is polling higher than any Independent or third-party candidate at this point, since Ross Perot in 1996.

He is polling higher than Ralph Nader was in 2000 at any point. He is pulling higher than Gary Johnson was at any point in the 2016 campaign.

This guy, although he may not win, is a real threat to take a substantial portion of the vote and that is part of the reason why you see Donald Trump saying what he is saying.

DEAN: Right, and in the swing states where the margins in the last two elections, presidential elections have been so tiny, exactly. I don't have to tell you, the data guy that, but so very small when you have someone pulling that high or pulling that sort of support, that's a real thing.

ENTEN: It is absolutely a real thing. You know, you speak about those swing states, right? You talk about Wisconsin decided by what? 0.63 percentage points last time around. You talk about Georgia, 0.24 percentage points. You talk about Arizona, 0.31 percentage points.

If you're pulling let's say 13 percent on average, you are pulling a very substantial chunk of the vote, and of course, the question is, Jessica, who is RFK pulling more support from?

Earlier on, Democrats thought it would be from Joe Biden. And now obviously, republicans like Donald Trump believe that they are pulling more from it him and you see on the screen right now why Donald Trump is so concerned.

So this is a Quinnipiac University poll that was taken in the middle of last month, and what you see here is while Joe Biden is puling some of those RFK, Jr. supporters, he is their second choice, the plurality clearly say that Donald Trump is their second choice.

And this I think is reflective of Joe Biden's campaign earlier on in the campaign, basically trying to sour Democrats on RFK, Jr., and now you're seeing Donald Trump do the same.

And so I think the real question is, Jessica, we have seen throughout the years third party and Independent candidates fade going down the stretch. I mentioned Gary Johnson earlier on in this segment.

I think the question is, will we see that same fate for RFK, Jr. this time around? That is still a question. History says, yes, but when of course you consider that both Joe Biden and Donald Trump is disliked as they are both with negative net favorable ratings, I have to say it is a real question, one of which I don't have the answer to at this particular point.

DEAN: Yes. We are just going to wait and see.

Okay, lastly, today is Mother's Day. What's the data? What do you give? What do you give mom? Its 7:30 on the East Coast, so time is running out.

ENTEN: Time is running out. That is why I have both easy advice and tough advice. This to me is like a fascinating gender divide, right? We talk about a gender divide in politics. How about a gender divide on when it comes to the best Mother's Day gift?

Men say the best Mother's Day gift is flowers, but I think the women might be honest something, right?

[19:35:03]

The mothers might be on to something. They say, forget the physical gifts. Yes, those are nice, but just pick up the phone, pick up the phone or dare I say visit mom.

This is not a hard thing to do. Mom just wants to know that she is loved. That's what the polling tells us. That's why I called my mother earlier today, okay.

Yes, you can go fancy on the gift, but the fact is just acknowledge mom. Tell mom that I love you and mom, I do love you. I called you earlier, but now I am wishing it to you on national television as well.

DEAN: Mom Enten, Happy Mother's Day. Happy Mother's Day to my mom and all the moms out there, they deserve a full day of celebration. Harry Enten, thank you so much.

ENTEN: You've got that right.

DEAN: I appreciate it.

ENTEN: Thank you.

DEAN: Still ahead, the Biden administration prepares to significantly raise tariffs on China as Russian President Vladimir Putin hints at a meeting with Chinese leader, Xi Jinping. What this all means about rising tensions between the world's superpowers?

You're on the CNN NEWSROOM.

DEAN: Tonight, tensions rising between the world's two largest economies as the Biden administration prepares to significantly raise tariffs on China. That announcement expected as early as this week could see increases on electric vehicles, batteries, and solar panels manufactured in China.

Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin is hinting at a major move on the diplomatic front. A visit to China for talks with Chinese leader, Xi Jinping.

CNN's Marc Stewart is in Beijing with more on all of this. Mark, this would be Putin's first overseas trip since the Russian elections in March and the symbolism of this looms big.

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No question, Jessica. The optics of all of this are tremendous to see Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin once again standing side-by-side. That's the photo-op we are predicting to show off what has been described as this no limits partnership.

And it would be happening at a time when China is really trying to establish itself as the leader of a new world order kind of an alternative to the west, to the United States and to NATO.

And clearly, China does see some benefit in a very strong relationship from Russia, its proximity to Europe. It could be military, it could be economic, strategic support, points that I recently talked about with David Shullman, a longtime China watcher with "The Atlantic Council."

Take a quick listen to part of our conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID SHULLMAN, LONGTIME CHINA WATCHER, "THE ATLANTIC COUNCIL": So China and Russia are sharing that drive to kind - to reform the order and to get more countries to believe, we don't need to go with the United States, we can engage with China and benefit from the investment that China is throwing our way and we don't have to follow a democratic path to development necessarily.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: With all of that said, talking to several of my contacts on the ground here in Mainland China, there is this feeling that China is very much going to establish itself as the lead in this relationship with Vladimir Putin.

If we look at the war in Ukraine, for example, China has not necessarily condemned it. It is trying to portray itself as this neutral partner in all of it. It has denied supporting the Russian war machine, yet, one of my sources suggested that perhaps China is going to want to assert itself on the world stage as a peace broker and this conflict would be perhaps an opportunity.

So for that reason, China is really going to try to put its self- interests first despite the strong relationship, Jessica, with Russia and Vladimir Putin.

DEAN: And we mentioned, too, the Biden administration's possible new tariffs on Chinese goods that would include electric vehicles and other things. What more can you tell us about that?

STEWART: Right. I don't think that any of that will necessarily be a surprise here in Beijing. This flooding of the market with Chinese tech products is something that Secretary Yellen discussed during her recent visit to China.

I think the one thing that has me very curious is that if this moves forward as expected, will China try to retaliate? Because as we have seen over history, China very much operates with this philosophy, if you hurt me, I am going to hurt you back.

But this is a different time. The Chinese economy right now is just not as strong as it has in the past. It really needs for an investment and that includes the United States.

So perhaps that will impact or shade its future decision-making -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right, Marc Stewart, thanks so much for that reporting. We appreciate it.

And we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:49:02]

DEAN: We are taking a look this weekend at Champions for Change, unsung people whose ideas and innovations are sparking big movements across business and technology and the ways we live our lives.

Today, we are showcasing one of the world's best big wave surfers who is also a professor racing to save the coral reefs he loves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. CLIFF KAPONO, PROFESSIONAL SURFER, ASU PROFESSOR AND STORYTELLER. It is a familial relationship that we have as native Hawaiians with the coral reef. We have a creation story that emphasizes life really starts with the coral. It is my greatest grandmother.

My name is Cliff Kapono. I am from Hilo, Hawaii and I am a surfer and a scientist.

Is this one beat?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One beat.

KAPONO: The MEGA Lab is a science research group essentially, but we are not the average scientists. We are a bunch of surfers and skater and artists. We develop technology to protect our ocean and we provide it to communities who need it the most.

[19:50:03]

I've come to realize that some of the most creative individuals are not necessarily formally trained in academia, and not to say those degrees aren't important, I've just found especially here in the islands, there is so much creativity and intelligence that is surrounded by being a part of nature.

JOHN BURNS, THE MEGA LAB: We met many years ago, and we shared a feeling that in the conventional science framework, you are expected to be very one track.

Cliff is a renowned surfer. I love to fish, surf, skateboard like all of these things that we kind of had to hide as being parts of ourselves.

You see all these little dryness though.

KAPONO: Yes.

BURNS: And so early on in that academic journey, we sort of vowed like, hey, if we ever get to the position that we have PhDs, let's do it differently.

KAPONO: If you have a particular skill set that can help us develop technology to protect our ocean, whether they are artists who also love chemistry, or whether they're musicians who also enjoy doing statistics, the weirder you are, the more we want you here.

We try to make sure all of our data and research is open source, available to anyone who wants to participate.

BURNS: We wanted to create the world's greatest underwater observatory, which was ambitious for sure, but we love a good challenge.

KAPONO: Over one-and-a-half million people watch this tape. We should be able to see John into the camera. He is giving a good wipe down.

BURNS: The heart of it is a camera that streams live 24/7.

Right away, we started capturing wildlife interactions and organisms that are typically never seen when there is a human in the environment.

KAPONO: Coral reefs are foundational to stabilize an ecosystem. There are estimates that by the year 2050, up to 80 percent of the coral reefs could be lost.

We've mapped more of the surface of Mars than we have our oceans, which to us seems a bit problematic so we have this ambitious goal over the next six years to map a million reefs by 2030. And how we want to get there is by training 10,000 mappers with a simple iPhone or GoPro, anyone can do it.

BURNS: We came up with a way to take regular digital cameras, select a bunch of images, and then make perfect three-dimensional reconstructions of the reef at millimeter scale accuracy.

KAPONO: I like to think about my ancestors who I've never met, but they were thinking about me seven generations before me and I want to make sure that seven generations down the road can enjoy what a beautiful place we have today, tomorrow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Be sure to tune in on Saturday at 9:00 PM Eastern, right here on CNN for the champions for change, one-hour special.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:57:46]

DEAN: At least 24 states in the US have passed some form of a ban on trans student athletes.

Up next, on "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper, we followed the emotional journey of Amber, a transgender softball player.

Amid an uptick in anti-transgender legislation countrywide, she is determined to make her voice heard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In Ohio, a lot of the anti-transgender legislation really started picking up dramatically September of 2022 and it started really with the state school board.

The Ohio State School Board introduced a resolution that was basically targeting all LGBT students, but in particular transgender students.

To say things like students couldn't play on the sports teams of their gender identity.

You're taking a day off school to speak to the Board of Education what do you want them to hear?

AMBER, TRANSGENDER STUDENT: Bottom line, this resolution puts high schoolers in danger. You are telling these schools that it is okay to discriminate against trans people.

I mean, it is infuriating, but it is nothing new.

The fight over trans people being able to play sports represents for me being human, not being demonized. It represents being able to be ourselves and be able to do something in that we love.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper, "The Playing Field: The Battle Over Transgender Athletes" is next only here on CNN.

And I want to thank you so much for joining me this evening. I'm Jessica Dean and I am going to see you again next weekend.

Before we go, we are wishing all the moms out there and all our moms here at the show a very beautiful day. Thank you so much on behalf of all of our team whose mothers and mom figures you're going to see right now.

Goodnight.

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