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New, Biden Challenges Trump, Withdraws from Traditional Debate Dates; GOP Lawmakers Audition for V.P. at Hush Money Trial; Blinken Announces $2 Billion in Foreign Military Financing for Ukraine. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired May 15, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

And we begin this hour with two breaking stories. First in the 2024 presidential race, President Biden challenges Donald Trump to debate starting next month. Trump's response, let's get ready to rumble.

We're also following breaking news out of Ukraine. While in Kyiv Secretary of State Tony Blinken just announced $2 billion in military aid to the country. This comes as Russia is making its most significant gains in two years, launching a wave of missile attacks, hitting apartment buildings and a shopping center.

Let's bring in White House Correspondent Arlette Saenz and Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny.

Arlette, to you first big news with these presidential debates, President Biden throwing down the gauntlet by challenging Trump, what can you tell us?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, President Biden's campaign proposed some revisions to the potential debates between Biden and Trump, suggesting that they would like to see debates happen in late June as well as early September. The campaign chair, Jen O'Malley Dillon, wrote a letter to the Commission on Presidential Debates, saying that Biden would forego those traditional debates held by the commission, which were currently slated to begin in mid-September. Biden also teased challenging Trump to two debates in a video posted on social media. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Donald Trump lost two debates to me in 2020. Since then, he hadn't shown up for debate. Now, he's acting like he wants to debate me again. Well, make my day, pal. I'll even do it twice. So let's pick the dates, Donald. I hear you're free on Wednesdays.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SAENZ: So, the Biden campaign laid out their proposal, which includes one debate in late June after they believe former President Donald Trump's criminal trial in New York City would conclude, and then also another debate in early September.

One of the arguments that they're making is they think that they need to appear before voters before early voting begins in some of those key battleground states. They are also saying that they want to see one-on-one debates. That would mean excluding any potential third party candidates like Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Additionally, they want to negotiate these debates and organize them directly with broadcast networks, eliminating the Commission on Presidential Debates.

Now, Trump, just moments ago, posted on social media saying that he would also agree to those terms of the dates in June and September. He said, I am ready and willing to debate Crooked Joe at the two proposed times in June and September. Just tell me when, I'll be there. Let's get ready to rumble.

Of course, the final details of this would also need to be fine tuned, but these debates could potentially be occurring much earlier than traditionally held with late June just being a few weeks away.

ACOSTA: All right, Arlette. And Jeff Zeleny is with me as well. Jeff, President Biden there channeling a little dark Brandon, maybe Dirty Harry there, saying, make my day. What's going on here? I mean, is this maybe, you know, a nod to Democrats who have been wanting Biden to spice things up a little bit? This will certainly do that.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I think it is. And, look, one of the big questions hanging over this rematch is, are they going to debate? I think if President Biden had his druthers, he may not. He would be a sitting president in a position of strength, like Reagan, only agreed to one debate, but that's not the case as we see the polls out there.

So, what the White House is clearly trying to do is take charge of this situation while the Trump campaign and the former president is distracted, trying to put this proposal out, saying we want to debate and soon. Early June would be -- or late June would be the earliest ever for a debate.

But, look, how voting in America is done has changed dramatically, even since you and I have started covering presidential races. But since 1988, the Commission on Presidential Debates, this sort of bipartisan, non-partisan group, has held these debates. There's been a lot of criticism from all sides. So, this would be a dramatic shift in this, so late June, early September.

The reason for that is, clearly, the Biden campaign wants to flip the script, if you will.

[10:05:01] They want to start showing that President Biden is more in charge, in command and seeing that head to head matchup is something his advisers believe will do it. If you think of him in the State of the Union address, that's the kind of Biden they want to see head to head with the former president. And early September, that is also just about when early voting begins. So, that would be a dramatic difference.

And just a few moments ago on the Hugh Hewitt Radio Show, the former president said he doesn't mind the moderators. He said he will do whoever. So, if this continues, we could have this set up pretty soon.

ACOSTA: Very interesting, all right. And before they're even officially the nominees of their parties. I mean, that's fascinating as well.

ZELENY: It is fascinating.

ACOSTA: All right. Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much.

Let's discuss with former Republican Governor of Arkansas Asa Hutchinson. He ran for the 2024 presidential nomination for the Republican Party.

Governor Hutchinson, what do you make of this challenge from the president to Donald Trump? He did say, make my day, channeling Clint Eastwood there a little bit. What do you think? Is Donald Trump going to make his day?

FMR. GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R-AR): I think it's going to happen. And I'm with you that it is surprising that the first debate suggested is in June before the National Convention. So, I think it reflects the fact that Joe Biden sees the latest polls that he's dropped. He's worried about the third party candidate. So, he's setting this in motion, hoping it will give him a boost, and Trump is ready to go on it.

So, I think it's going to happen, and I like the revision to the rules, where actually the mics can be turned off unless you have allocated time to speak. That's a good revision. It's interesting that President Biden does not want to have a studio audience, trying to take away from some of the dynamics that is favorable to Donald Trump.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Governor, I just wonder what your reaction is to the fact that, I mean, Donald Trump avoided debates during the primary process, wouldn't debate you and the other candidates. And now it seems he'll do this. So, what's your response to that?

HUTCHINSON: Well, he missed the opportunity and the tradition of responsibility to debate rival candidates. And he refused to do it at the time. Obviously, it paid off for him. He was successful in that in the, in the primary. The general election, there's a higher level of expectation that the candidates will debate. It's one of the greatest traditions of the American presidency.

And so I think it will happen. He would, he would certainly be remiss if he declined that debate with Joe Biden, even if he is leading in the polls at the time.

ACOSTA: And is it a mistake? I mean, I know you respect the tradition of presidential debates to forego the Commission on Presidential Debates, this bipartisan commission that's been in place for a generation now setting up these debates. Should that just go by the wayside?

HUTCHINSON: Well, it looks like it is. I mean, both parties are saying we're dissatisfied with the Presidential Commission on Debates. I think one of the reasons, of course, is they have a greater obligation when it's taxpayer funded to -- or private funded to have the third parties included in it. So, it's a different criteria. That's not beneficial to either of the major political parties. So, I'm not surprised by it and I think it reflects that probably that commission is history.

ACOSTA: And I did want to ask you about Donald Trump's criminal trial up in New York. Republican lawmakers, as you know, are flocking to that trial and they're attacking witnesses apparently at their own behest. We're not exactly sure. Maybe Trump is egging them on, but let's listen to a bit of that, talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Did the former president ask you to join him in New York today?

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): He did not. I went on my own volition. It was my idea.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He did not ask me. I actually saw him at the rally at Wildwood and said that he was in New York City for Monday and Tuesday and would be happy to come to court and show some support.

GOV. DOUG BURGUM (R-ND): I'm here completely as a volunteer. I'm here because I care about the future of this country and where it's going.

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH): I was there to support a friend, recognizing that sometimes it's a little bit lonely to sit up there by yourself. I offer to come in and maybe, you know, just be a friendly face in the courtroom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Governor, you know, some of these lawmakers who've been going up there are apparently in the running for vice president. Is this any way to pick a running mate? What's been your reaction to seeing all of that? Would you stand behind Donald Trump at the courthouse, like some of these other folks in the Republican Party are doing?

HUTCHINSON: The answer is no. I, certainly, as a lawyer and as a former prosecutor, love being in the courtroom, I would like to see it as a moment in history. But it's not appropriate for national political candidates to be there in the courtroom.

[10:10:00] The judge should be concerned about that. The jury knows what's going on in the courtroom there, and it could have an influence on the jury.

But the second thing is, if they're just there as a friend, certainly you understand that. But if the motivation is to set the stage to challenge the verdict, if it is a guilty verdict, then that is a greater concern. And I think that's what's happening. You're seeing those people that are there, the candidates, those that want to be V.P., those that want to support Trump, you're going to see them attacking the verdict if it happens to be a guilty verdict at the end of the day, saying it was a sham trial, this sets the stage for it.

And as someone who believes in our justice system and the role of jurors, that undermines what the jurors are having to weigh in this courtroom.

ACOSTA: Do you think it's election interference or a sham trial as Trump and some of these leaders have been saying?

HUTCHINSON: The answer is no. I don't like the prosecution theory. But defendants all across America by the thousands have to face charges in the courtroom and this is a system of equal justice. But whenever you look at the jurors in this case that's going to have to weigh it, I have confidence in them, particularly whenever they gave such thoughtful answers during the voir dire, the attention that they're paying to this. This is our system of justice.

And there very likely could be an acquittal. There could be a conviction. But let the jury make this decision based upon the law. And let's not undermine our entire system of justice just because we don't like what we see and how it impacts the political race.

ACOSTA: All right. Governor, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

HUTCHINSON: Thank you. Good to be with you.

ACOSTA: All right, good to be with you.

Coming up we're continuing to follow breaking developments out of Ukraine. Some major developments to bring to you as Russian troops are making advances in Ukraine. The U.S. pledging an additional $2 billion in aid, that's next.

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[10:15:00]

ACOSTA: Other breaking news this hour, Secretary of State Tony Blinken making it clear the U.S. is standing firmly behind Ukraine in its fight against Russia. Blinken just announced the U.S. will give an additional $2 billion in military aid to Ukraine. This came as he wrapped up a trip to Kyiv.

It also comes as the fighting is ratcheting up. You're looking at pictures of a blown out apartment building following a wave of Russian attacks. And take a look at this. This is just a piece of a Russian missile falling in one area. The fighting is so intense that Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has scrapped his meetings with foreign leaders for the time being.

Over the last week, Moscow has made its most significant gain since 2022 in the New York Times report. Some in the Biden administration fear this could be a turning point in the war.

Let's bring in our Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen, who's been watching all of this for us from Berlin. Fred, how is Ukraine doing against the Russians? These headlines are not encouraging.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, they certainly aren't. And I think right now it's extremely difficult for the Ukrainians, pretty much on all areas of the frontline, Jim, both in the south, the east, but especially in that new frontline that you were just talking about in the northeast of the country with the Russians launching that, I wouldn't necessarily call it a surprise attack, but certainly one that came a lot earlier than the Ukrainians would have thought they did see a Russian military buildup happening.

Now, the Ukrainians are acknowledging that they've had to withdraw from some positions. There's one town near the border that right now seems to be under full-on Russian assault called Vovchansk, where there are a lot of people who are being evacuated from there. And the Ukrainians are saying that the Russians are managing to take up positions in that area.

So, on the whole, on that part of that new frontline, very difficult right now for the Ukrainians, as they're really outnumbered and outgunned by the Russians to a large extent. And, of course, that's also something that overshadows all of those meetings the secretary of state is having there in Kyiv, in Ukraine, first with the Ukrainian president, then with the foreign minister.

And you're absolutely right. He did pledge a significant amount of new U.S. aid, $2 billion in military financing. He said that happened on several levels. But he also says that there is a big sense of urgency. Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Ukraine is facing this renewed, brutal Russian onslaught and we see, again, senseless strikes at civilians, residential buildings. We're rushing ammunition, armored vehicles, missiles, air defenses, rushing them to get to the frontlines, to protect soldiers, to protect civilians, and on air defenses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: So, there you see him saying that they're rushing all of those things to the frontlines. Of course, the U.S. acknowledging that there has been a bottleneck due to the delays in that financing getting through Congress, Jim. ACOSTA: Yes, it's unclear at this point what consequences there will be from that hold up in military aid. We'll have to see how this plays out.

Fred Pleitgen in Berlin for us, thank you, Fred.

Now, let's talk to Major General James Spider Marks. He is a CNN military analyst, retired from the U.S. Army. General Marks, your sense of it right now? Is this a potential turning point in the war with Russia for Ukraine? Are we just looking at some bad headlines here? What's your sense of it?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES SPIDER MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I wouldn't describe it as bad headlines, Jim, but, clearly, it's a tactical turning point.

[10:20:03]

In other words, the narrative we're going to see over the course of the next couple of weeks and months, I would suggest, is Russia will have some tactical victories, but they won't be -- let's keep it in context. They won't be able to tie these tactical victories together to truly dislodge the Ukrainian forces and force them back so much that it opens up avenues up to Kyiv. That's what this is all about. That's kind of number one that we're seeing.

Now, at the strategic level, what Putin has indicated is he wants to create a buffer zone. And he has essentially that buffer zone right now from the Donbas down to Crimea. But that's why he's focused in on Kharkiv right now.

Now, what that tells you is, from my perspective, if he's satisfied with that, if he achieves that, is that now an opening to something that might lead to some type of a ceasefire or an agreement? In other words, I think Putin understands he's not going to be able -- they don't have the capacity, the Russians don't have the capacity to get to Kyiv.

The Ukrainians have the capacity to hold. So this is what we're looking at right now. Where do we go from this point? Is that operational victory possible? I don't think it is in the near term.

ACOSTA: And Zelenskyy canceling his meetings with foreign leaders, the Ukrainians making a deal out of it, what do you take from that?

MARKS: Never a good idea at the strategic level to say that you're distracted. In other words, let's clear, empty my inbox, get rid of all these distractions, I've got something else I need to focus in on. I don't know that you -- you want to approach this as business as usual. We've got this under control. We know what we're doing. We have the high ground. We understand the advantages of the defense. They're in a defense right now. And the defense is the strongest form of warfare. So, use that to your advantage.

ACOSTA: It could be a slog though. It's still shaping up as a slog for months to come. MARKS: Could be, could be. Yes, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. General Marks, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

We're following a lot of breaking news right now. President Biden has now accepted a debate invitation from CNN. More from the White House, next.

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[10:25:00]

ACOSTA: All right. Breaking news into CNN, President Biden has accepted CNN's invitation for debate. I want to go straight out to the White House, CNN's Arlette Saenz.

Arlette, this has been some pretty fast breaking developments this morning on the debate front. What can you tell us?

SAENZ: Yes, Jim, President Biden just moments ago posted on social media that he has accepted one invitation for a debate, and that is from CNN. The president posted, I've received and accepted an invitation from CNN for a debate on June 27th. Over to you, Donald, as you said, anywhere, any time, any place.

Now, just to recap, the Biden campaign has proposed holding two debates between the two men, one in late June and another in early September, foregoing the traditional debates from the Commission on Presidential Debates.

Former President Donald Trump has responded that he would agree to two debates, one being in June and one in September. So, now the ball will be in Trump's court to decide whether they will accept this invitation as well from CNN for a debate on June 27th.

Now, the Biden campaign has said that they want to see these debates just be one-on-one debates. That essentially is excluding a potential third party candidate. They also are organizing these debates directly with broadcast networks, cutting out the Commission on Presidential Debates, which was set to begin these face offs in mid-September and hold three of them over the course of several weeks in the fall.

Now, there are still a number of details that need to be worked out. For instance, Trump did a radio show interview a little while ago where he said he would like to see these debates be two hours. He believes there needs to be podiums involved. The Biden campaign has also laid out very specific details about what they want to see. They want this to be in studio with a moderator and the candidates, eliminating some of the distractions and potential interactions that come from an audience.

The Biden campaign has also called for mics to only beyond when the candidate is set to speak, potentially some -- potentially eliminating some of that intense back and forth that we saw at that very first debate between Biden and Trump in 2020. So, we will see what the Trump campaign might have to say about Biden, saying that he's accepted this invitation for a debate on June 27th hosted by CNN. Of course, we're still waiting to hear more details about what exactly that will entail. But it shows that both of these candidates are eager to begin this debating process much earlier than is typical as they're heading towards that face-off in November.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Arlette, I mean, might any of this have something to do with the fact that Democrats have been a little nervous about the president's poll numbers? And as we saw during the State of the Union speech the president delivered a performance that really jazzed up the base of the Democratic Party. Is this sort of what the party, Democratic insiders, operatives, is this what they want to see, sort of the president coming out fighting in a fighting spirit, wanting to take on the former president?

SAENZ: Well, the Biden campaign certainly has felt that these debates with Trump in the past have worked in their favor. I was on hand for both of those debates that took place between Biden and Trump back in 2020. And advisers around that time really felt that it was a venue that highlighted some of Biden's best characteristics and reasonings for why he should be president.

[10:30:08]