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Biden and Trump Accepts CNN's Invitation; Biden Challenges Trump; Interview with Representative Eric Swalwell (D-CA); Trump and Biden Face Off. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired May 15, 2024 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That it was a venue that highlighted some of Biden's best characteristics and reasonings for why he should be president. So, this could be an opportunity for him to go face to face, address some of these issues that they believe are important to voters, things like abortion rights, things like issues relating to democracy.

And really, what they are trying to do is create these scenarios where they can present a very vivid split screen with the former president as they continue to try to warn that he poses a direct to American democracy -- a direct threat to American democracy and American's freedoms.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. And, Arlette, I'm just looking at some new reporting coming in from our Kristen Holmes and MJ Lee saying that the president's announcement comes after informal conversations between the Biden and Trump campaigns about debates in recent weeks that largely focused on a mutual disdain for the Commission on Presidential Debates and potential scenarios to work around the commission. This is according to three sources familiar with these discussions.

So, it sounds as though we know that Former President Donald Trump, he's aired his grievances and his problems with the commission in the past. I mean, this has come up several times before. And I remember being at those debates. I was out there with you, Arlette, at a number of those back in 2020. He's no fan of the Presidential Debate Commission.

Interesting that we're hearing the same, or sort of the same, from President Biden and his camp.

SAENZ: Yes, it is. And there is a very detailed letter where Jen O'Malley Dillon, the Biden campaign chair, detailed to the Presidential Commission exact -- or the Commission on Presidential Debates exactly why the Biden campaign would not participate in the debates that they had set forth.

One of the arguments is that they think that voters need to hear from both candidates much earlier in the process. Some of those debates that had been scheduled by the commission were set to take place when early voting has already started in the fall. But then, also, in that letter, O'Malley Dillon talks about the fact that some of these debates turned into entertainment spectacles with jeering and moments where the crowd would applaud or interject. And so, they're hoping that they might be able to narrow this down to just having the two candidates face off in front of a moderator, hoping that they can get into the issues that will be debated.

Now, I think one thing that's also interesting to point out is that the Biden campaign has proposed that these debates should be hosted by a broadcast organization. One that hosted a GOP primary debate back in 2016 and another that also had hosted a debate between -- in the Democratic Primary in 2020. So, ensuring trying to basically make this argument that these broadcast organizations should not be up for debate with the candidates if they want how to debate with them in the past.

So, we will see. That's a much more narrow list than is typical. So, we will see how exactly that turns out. But it's clear from Biden's campaign this morning is that so far, they have accepted an invitation from CNN for a June 27th debate. Now, the ball is in Trump's court and we'll see what the campaign has to say.

ACOSTA: Yes. And you and I both remember, that was a pretty feisty debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden that -- who can forget that moment when Trump said stand back and stand by. And Chris Wallace and Joe Biden were in there kind of talking to the president at that time to see whether or not he would tell folks like the Proud Boys to not do what they've been doing out there.

Jeff Zeleny is with us right now. Jeff, I want to go to you and ask you about this. This is all breaking in the last several minutes. What do you make of this? The president putting out there on social media that he's accepted this debate invitation from CNN. Throwing down the gauntlet, issuing this challenge to Donald Trump. I mean, this is moving pretty fast. What do you think?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It certainly is. I mean, clearly the Biden campaign is trying to gain the upper hand here and control this conversation over the debates and control when and where and who will host the debates. I mean, it's something that has been, as Arlette was just reporting there, really going on behind the scenes for quite some time.

It was a couple of months ago when the Biden campaign and advisers realized that yes, they had to debate. This was not going to be an option. They knew they would have to debate in the fall campaign. So, the question of they certainly wanted to do it on their terms. So, having a debate on June 27th, if the Trump campaign agrees to that, would be the earliest presidential debate on record.

Now, of course, there have not been debates for all that long, going back to 1960 on television, we should point out. So, this, of course, would be the earliest. But look, how we vote has changed dramatically in this country with early voting, et cetera. But it sounds the former president is on talk radio this morning telling Hugh Hewitt and others that yes, he will agree to this. He wants more debates. He wants more than just a couple of debates. But as of now, the White House, the Biden campaign is saying they will do a debate in June, which it appears to be June 27th, if the Trump campaign agrees to that, and they would do one in September.

[10:35:00]

I think one interesting thing, the vice-presidential debate, at least the Biden campaign's proposal is for the end of July. Jim, that is right after the Republican convention. So, that is certainly interesting in the sense that the nominee for that position may only be aware of that for a few weeks, depending on when the former president makes his running mate choice.

So, many, many interesting developments. But, Jim, this certainly is one of the biggest developments of this rematch that we've seen in several weeks, but the Biden campaign is trying to take charge of this conversation.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. No question about it. I mean, and the other thing, Jeff, and you and I talked about this earlier, is that having these debates come before the nominating conventions. I mean, theoretically speaking, the June debate would come before both Joe Biden and Donald Trump are the official nominees of their parties. I mean, that is certainly a change.

ZELENY: Remarkably unusual. And look, it also almost flies in the face of -- and let's just play this out, a lot of things could happen in the month of June. The conviction or acquittal, we do not know what the jury is going to do, but clearly the Biden campaign wants to have this debate right in the aftermath of this trial.

But the former president, he has been leading the charge, saying any time, any place. He travels around to every rally he has, and he's not had that many, but a few, with a podium saying any time, any place. So, the Biden campaign is calling them on that. But the timing, absolutely, is interesting.

And you wonder how many people will be actually focused and tuning into this presidential race in late June. It's a summertime, a busy time. But clearly, the Biden campaign is eager to have this side-by- side matchup here to ultimately make the case that they believe that they benefit from making this a referendum on Donald Trump not on the Biden policies here.

So, a lot of strategy at play here. But the bottom line, it looks like there will be debates and there will be early debates before the vote begins.

ACOSTA: Fascinating development. Also fascinating that these campaigns have been talking with one another about all of this. Jeff Zeleny, Arlette Saenz, we'll continue to talk about this as well. Thank you very much. We really appreciate it.

We'll speak more about all of this with Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell. He's up next after the break. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

ACOSTA: Back to our breaking news. President Biden has accepted CNN's invitation to debate Donald Trump on June 27th.

Let's discuss more now with Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California. Congressman, thanks for being here. I did not have a June presidential debate on my 2024 bingo card. How about you? Your reaction to this move by President Biden? Smart? What do you think?

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): Bring it on. You know what, people need to see the contrast. And I'm afraid that, you know, not enough folks have really, you know, dialed into this election just yet. And the contrast could not be more sharp. You have one person who's going to bring character, that's President Biden, and one person who's going to bring corruption. You've got one person that's going to bring competence, that's President Biden, and you've got one person that's going to bring chaos, and that's President Trump.

So, let's do it in June. Let's do it in September. And President Biden is going to do great. We saw him at the State of the Union. We've seen him in prior debates. We've got nothing to be afraid of.

ACOSTA: And we do have a clip from one of the debates back in 2020. This was a very memorable moment. You will remember this, Congressman, between Donald Trump, who was the president at that time, Joe Biden, who was the challenger, and our Chris Wallace was moderating that debate, and the subject of the Proud Boys came up. The far-right hate group. Let's watch that and talk about on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace.

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Well, then do it, sir.

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Say it. Do it. Say it.

TRUMP: You want to call him -- what do you want to call him? Give me a name, give me a name.

WALLACE: White supremacist and --

TRUMP: Who would you like me to condemn?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: White supremacist and right --

TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left. Because this is not a right-wing problem. This is a left- wing.

BIDEN: His own FBI -- (END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: I mean, Congressman, is this -- I mean, do you think the American people want to see these debates get going this early? I mean, obviously that was a huge moment in those debates. Your sense of it?

SWALWELL: Yes, Jim. I mean, again, the president needs to draw the contrast that he's leading a jobs presidency in contrast to somebody who saw more jobs lost, you know, on their -- his president in recent history, that he's stitching the world alliances back together as Donald Trump would dramatically rip them apart.

And again, character. Sure, you may not like that Joe Biden is 81 years old, but there's a number that's a little bit higher than that, and that's the nearly 90 felony counts that Donald Trump faces in four different jurisdictions. So, we have to show that contrast. We have to hammer it and just stay on offense. Don't let Trump take us on our heels. Stay on offense. We win the debate. We win the election.

ACOSTA: And do you think this reflects some concern inside the Biden camp about these latest poll numbers? You saw that New York Times/Siena poll that came out a few days ago that got a lot of Democrats worried about how the president is doing. Then you saw a lot of pushbacks from Democratic operatives saying, no, no, no, the polls are all over the place. You can't make too much of one poll.

Where do you fall on this? It sounds like from what you were saying earlier that you are worried about a little bit of complacency inside the Democratic Party among progressives about this cycle. Where are you in all this?

[10:45:00]

SWALWELL: Yes, I think it reflects eagerness, eagerness to tell the story of what's happened over the last four years and to lay out the vision for how you finish the job in the next four. So, I think it really reflects eagerness. I mean, if President Biden had something to hide, he wouldn't be, you know, on the sidelines trying to duck these debates. I think he's ready to bring the fight just as he did at the State of the Union.

ACOSTA: And I did want to ask you about the former president's hush money in a trial up in, in New York. You did see a number -- we saw the house speaker, Mike Johnson, other MAGA supporters of the former president up there at the trial. Let's listen to some of what some of them had to say outside the courthouse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: This is the fifth week that President Trump has been in court for this sham of a trial. They are doing this intentionally to keep him here and keep him off of the campaign trail. I came here again today on my own to support President Trump because I am one of hundreds of millions of people and one citizen who is deeply concerned about this. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Congressman, a lot of Democrats, I believe yourself included, voted to help Mike Johnson keep his job as speaker. Any regrets there? I mean, he goes up to New York and throws his support behind the former president when he's on trial. What do you think?

SWALWELL: Yes. We voted for Mike Johnson to keep his job as speaker, not for him to lead a law firm of Johnson, Mills, Donalds, and Bergman. And again, I thought I served with busy people, people who had important things that they were working on for their constituents, not people who were so desperate to be Donald Trump's lawyer that they would put aside their duties to their constituents, go up to New York and sit in a courtroom like somebody who has nothing to do. That to me, frankly, is pathetic and it's missing the point of what people sent us here to do.

ACOSTA: And do you think if Democrats have another crack at this to save Mike Johnson's job that the vote will end up the same way?

SWALWELL: I think it's always going to come down to what's best for the American people and what helps us get things done here. That vote reflected we have things to do still. We have to reauthorize the FAA. So, airports and airplanes, you know, are safe and functioning. We've got a budget to pass in September so the government doesn't shut down. And there's going to be a crisis that we haven't even, you know, anticipated or predicted yet that always will pop up. So, we need order here.

And as long as the Republicans are in the majority, you know, we will provide the majority of the votes, but we're not going to let chaos prevail.

ACOSTA: All right. Congressman Eric Swalwell, thanks so much for jumping on with us.

SWALWELL: My pleasure. Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: Really appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

All right. Coming up, we'll have much more on the breaking news. President Biden accepting CNN's invitation for debate. That's right. If you're just tuning in, a presidential debate on June 27th. You heard that right. That would be next month. How will Trump respond? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

ACOSTA: All right. More on the breaking news right now. Former President Donald Trump has accepted CNN's invitation for debate with President Biden. That is setting up a June showdown. My colleague Arlette Saenz is, I believe, over at the White House.

Arlette, I hope you've not been running back and forth this entire hour.

SAENZ: I have.

ACOSTA: I suspect you have. But, I mean, this is according to a Trump campaign official telling our Kristen Holmes that the former president has accepted this debate invitation from CNN for the end of June. So, this is going to happen very quickly if all plays out the way it's happening right now. What are you hearing from the White House? It sounds as though it's game on.

SAENZ: Yes, it certainly does. President Biden and Former President Donald Trump appear to have accepted the terms of a June 27th debate with CNN. That is just six weeks away. This will be the first time that we are seeing the two men face off in this presidential election cycle. Of course, they debated two times back in 2020.

But we're still waiting to learn some of the other details about what exactly this campaign will look like. I will say my colleague MJ Lee and I have heard from two Biden campaign sources who said that they had accepted an invitation for a debate that will take place in the studio at CNN's Atlanta offices. But we will see what else the details of this debate will look like.

A bit earlier today, Former President Trump, for instance, told Fox News in a radio interview that he would be interested in a two -hour debates that involved podiums. The Biden campaign has also set out very specific details about what they want to see. For instance, the microphones can only be on when each candidate is expected to speak, potentially eliminating some of that very intense back and forth that we saw in the very first debate between Biden and Trump back in 2020.

But then there's also questions about what the debates will look like going forward. So, the two men so far appear to have agreed to a debate on June 27th, just six weeks away. The Biden campaign had also proposed a debate in early September. That is something that the Trump campaign has said that they would also do. But we will see.

What else we learn, obviously, there's very fast developments throughout the day on this front, but it's clear that these two men will be debating much earlier than it's typical in the process with that first debate appearing to be here on CNN in just six weeks.

ACOSTA: Yes, Arlette, I mean, I'm seeing the announcement from CNN on my laptop. So, we're all getting this at the same time. You know, me, I'm always in the know. Jeff Zeleny is with us too, but it says, CNN will host an election debate between Biden and Trump on June 27th at 9:00 p. m. in the Atlanta studios of CNN, our new studios, not at the old building, but the new building.

ZELENY: Yes. The historic Techwood Studios.

ACOSTA: The Techwood Campus. And it says here, to ensure candidates may maximize the time allotted in the debate, no audience will be present. That's interesting.

[10:55:00] ZELENY: Right. And that is -- it really takes us back, Jim, to those first televised debates in 1960, of course, in CBS News in Chicago.

ACOSTA: Oh, yes.

ZELENY: On Clark Street at WBBM, as you well know.

ACOSTA: My old stomping ground.

ZELENY: And it's certainly is designed, at least, the Biden campaign is hoping that it will focus on the issues, on the candidates, and the contrast. Important also that it's in Atlanta. Obviously, Georgia is a central battleground in this election. It's some state that has really been the subject of so much conversation. Donald Trump claimed he won it. He did not win it, of course. Court cases, et cetera. But it is a key battleground as well.

But this is a fast-moving development. And the point is, you can tell the Biden campaign has been working on this for a while.

ACOSTA: Oh, yes.

ZELENY: And clearly, they've been preparing for the idea of a debate. But it could just happen weeks after the first criminal trial in.

ACOSTA: That's right.

ZELENY: So, certainly, the outcome of that will also be hanging over this debate.

ACOSTA: Yes, it could affect the scheduling of the debate, I suppose, depending on how this plays out and what the verdict is and so on out of that trial. The other thing, Jeff, that is fascinating in all of this is how quickly both campaigns, I mean, yes, we've heard Donald Trump complain about the Commission on Presidential Debates. That's been going on for some time, but to hear this from the Biden camp I think is very interesting.

And I also have to say, we were kind of running out of time, but -- and I don't mean to give you a multifaceted question. RFK Jr., he's not going to be participating despite the fact that a lot of these states he's pulling quite well.

ZELENY: He's not. And expect that to be one of the controversies here. But both the Biden campaign and the Trump campaign certainly want a one-on-one debate. And it was always an open question if RFK Jr. would meet the threshold of the Commission on Presidential Debates. Third-party candidates generally don't, with the exception of Ross Perot.

But the bottom line here is, this first presidential debate in June, you know that Trump will be calling for more, perhaps RFK Jr. will be as well. So, this is the beginning of it. We'll see when the September one is, if they all agree to that.

ACOSTA: Maybe there'll be an RFK Jr., Cornel West, Jill Stein debate sort of emblematic of -- remember the 2016 campaign, when you had the big table and the little table debates.

ZELENY: For sure.

ACOSTA: Yes. All right. We'll see. And as Jeff was saying, very important that this is happening in the State of Georgia. Jeff Zeleny, Arlette Saenz, thank you very much.

Fast-moving morning. Thanks very much for joining us this morning. I'm Jim Acosta. Our next hour of "Newsroom" with Wolf Blitzer starts after a short break. Have a great day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:00]