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CNN International: Trump Defense Grills Michael Cohen On Cross- Examination; Slovakia's PM Remains In Intensive Care After Being Shot; Suspect Charged With Attempted Murder Of Slovak PM. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired May 16, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:00:29]

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN INTENATIONAL HOST: Good morning or good evening, depending on where you're watching. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York.

Cohen in court, more cross-examination of Donald Trump's former fixer. We will have the latest for the hush money trial. Rolling out the red carpet, Russia's President Vladimir Putin and China's leader Xi Jinping get together in a show of strength in Beijing. And show me the money, a closer look at the state of the U.S. consumer as the Dow Jones crosses the key 40,000 milestone. It has finally happened.

A lot to get to. But, let's start in Lower Manhattan where the gloves are off and sparks are sure to fly in the courtroom, as Donald Trump's lead attorney resumes cross-examining Michael Cohen. We are in the crucial homestretch of this historic trial. Now, Cohen, of course, is the prosecution's star witness. He is also the last one they plan to call. The defense is trying to paint Cohen as a bitter liar, bent on getting revenge against his former boss. Now, so far, he has kept his cool on the stand. But, Todd Blanche, the lead defense attorney, will certainly try to test Cohen today, and we can expect a bare knuckled cross-examination.

Let's bring in CNN Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider, who has been tracking all of the developments inside of the courtroom for us. So, Jessica, Cohen has been on the stand, it seems, like about an hour now. Take us inside of the courtroom. What's happened so far?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. There were a lot of battles with objections up until just about 10 a.m. Rahel. So, you're right. Starting at 10 a.m., Michael Cohen began taking questions again. Trump's defense team, they are really hammering Cohen about his past convictions, his past interactions with federal prosecutors and federal judges. They're reminding the jury that Cohen did plead guilty to several charges, including lying to Congress.

But, in their latest batch of questioning, they're also letting the jury know, in their view, that Michael Cohen just didn't take full responsibility for committing various crimes, in particular, tax fraud. And this is likely what we're seeing from the defense, really trying to dispute this notion that Cohen is really a changed, a reformed man, and that the jury should believe him. So, in this line of questioning, we're seeing now the defense wants the jury to know that Michael Cohen, he might not be completely repentant about his past crimes that he has served prison time for. The defense is really stressing to the jury, in their mind, you can't believe what Michael Cohen says.

It is notable, though, after several hours of cross-examination on Tuesday, about one hour today, the defense really has not brought up anything yet in relation to the damning testimony from Michael Cohen, where he said numerous times that Donald Trump knew about the hush money scheme, that Donald Trump was in on it every step of the way, including being knowledgeable about the repayment that was disguised as a legal retainer. And of course, that is the issue that is at the heart of this case. The defense really hasn't touched on it at all in the questioning so far in the cross. We'll see if they get to it at some point today. They've really just seemed to be relying solely on questioning Michael Cohen's credibility.

But, Rahel, I think the question at this point is, will that go far enough with the jury to refute what we've heard in recent days, especially because the defense team has previously told the judge, they expect to wrap up this cross-examination by today? The court is only expected to go to 4 p.m. So, we could see, I mean, they could push it to next week, but their initial estimate was that they'd be wrapped with cross-exam by the end of the day. Rahel.

SOLOMON: Wow. That's fascinating, Jessica, because court is not in session tomorrow --

SCHNEIDER: Right.

SOLOMON: -- which makes you wonder how soon this could be potentially in a jury's hands. Jessica Schneider live for us there. Jessica. Thank you. We'll check back in with you a little later this hour.

But now, I want to welcome in defense attorney and former federal prosecutor, Shan Wu. Shan, always good to have you as well. Just give me your sense of how you think Todd Blanche is doing so far based on what we've seen this morning. What's your view of how this is going?

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think it's going that well for Blanche, much better than the way he started, which was with a big faceplant. His very first question out of the box got him sort of reprimanded by the judge and the jury, even though they can't hear the reprimand, they can tell something was off with that. I think he is doing a more standard job today. As expected, he is trying to highlight any questions or credibility with regard to going having previously pled guilty to lying to Congress, obviously having previously lied, according to Cohen, to help Donald Trump. The problem, though, for Blanche's cross-examination is that's possibly not enough.

[11:05:00]

I mean, you never know how the jury is going to go. But, just constantly portraying Cohen, emphasizing you've lied in the past, you've been dishonest, it doesn't give the jury a roadmap as to what it is that the defense wants the jury to think Cohen is lying about now. It just generally he is a liar, he is a liar, and it actually ends up making the fence look like let us tell you when he is telling the truth and when he is lying. So, that's the problem with it. It makes sense to attack the credibility, but you got to give them some roadmap as to what to do with that attack.

SOLOMON: Shan, is there a moment during cross for defense where either a drop the mic moment or a moment where you know the momentum has shifted and you perhaps have won this thing, or isn't really just a guessing game until the jury comes back?

WU: It's very rare to have the drop the mic moment. That's more of the stuff of dramatic TV series with the trolls being only five minutes, because it's very hard to hit somebody with a question like, you're actually the murderer. Aren't you? And so, no one is going to say that on the stand. And you're not going to ask the question, because if the person says no, it really doesn't do anything. They're just denying what happened. And that actually Blanche encountered that -- not Blanche, Necheles encountered on a lot with Stormy Daniels, where she just kept hammering her and Daniels kept saying no, which is very ineffective.

What you do on a defense is you're looking for small nuggets. You want to elicit an answer and admission, may not fit right into the flow at that moment. But, later, when you come back for your closing argument, you want to weave all that together and say, remember, they admitted this, they said this, and you put all that together. And that's the way that you kind of build your case with the cross-examination.

SOLOMON: Shan, what happens next? I mean, as Jessica Schneider said that they initially suggested that they would be done with cross as early as today. So, what happens now? What happens next?

WU: After cross, the prosecution, the government gets to redirect, and on redirect, you'll get a clue as to whether they think there are particular areas of weakness that were exposed on the cross. On the other hand, they may simply re-emphasize some of the strengths or points that Cohen was making about Trump's involvement and his awareness of mischaracterizing the reimbursement payments.

I think looking ahead to that, if you see them really just focusing more on those strong issues to remind the jury of that and not so much on getting into, well, when you said you were pressured into pleading guilty, what was that all about? That will be a hint that the prosecution doesn't think Blanche scored many points on cross, and they'll just use it to give some emphasis on Cohen's strong points.

SOLOMON: So, my takeaway is, no drop the mic moment, and that it really just depends on what the jury obviously weighs as the most credible evidence or testimony.

Shan Wu, good to have you today. Thank you, Shan.

WU: Good to see you. SOLOMON: Yep. All right. Let's turn to some international news. The

alleged gunman in the assassination attempt of Slovakia's Prime Minister Robert Fico is now facing charges of attempted murder. The country's Interior Minister says that the suspect is not a member of an extremist group, but he is described as a politically motivated lone wolf. His name still has not been released. Police are guarding the hospital where Prime Minister Fico is recovering in intensive care.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen has more now on the assassination attempt. And I should warn you that the report starts with some pretty graphic video showing the moment of the attack.

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FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): An assassination attempt in broad daylight, Slovakia's Prime Minister Robert Fico shot and unable to walk, bodyguards rushing him into a car. The alleged shooter, still just feet away, tackled by police. Fico was shot multiple times and immediately rushed to the hospital, then airlifted to a major trauma center. One eyewitness said the scene felt like quote "a nightmare" and described hearing quick shots ring out in the crowded area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (Interpreted): It was quick, one by one, like if you throw a firecracker on the ground. I saw a scratch on his head and then he fell next to the barrier.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): No one else was injured in the shooting which happened in the central Slovak town of Handlova, just after an offsite government meeting. This was Fico right before the attack, speaking calmly at a press conference like any other day. Fico who served two previous terms as Prime Minister, a divisive figure in Slovakia and across Europe. He won a third term last year by running on a campaign to end military support for Ukraine, making no secret of his sympathies for Russia.

Fico is known for being anti-immigration, anti-LGBTQ rights, and very critical of the European Union. But, in the immediate aftermath of this assassination attempt, politics has been set aside.

[11:10:00]

One of Slovakia's opposition parties also calling it an attack on the nation's security.

MARIA KOLIKOVA, SLOVAK MP, FREEDOM AND SOCIETY PARTY (Interpreted): An attack on the Prime Minister is clearly an attack on the internal security of Slovakia.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Many in this country of about 5.5 million people deeply shaken and shocked by the violence.

LUBICA VOLKOVA, EYEWITNESS (Interpreted): I think it's a nightmare that this is not possible to happen in Slovakia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOLOMON: Fred Pleitgen joins us now from outside the hospital where the Prime Minister is currently being treated. Fred, good to have you. Give us a sense of what's the latest on the ground there from what you've been able to gather?

PLEITGEN: Yeah. We know the Prime Minister, Rahel, is still in the ICU, still getting treatment there. And then, of course, his wounds are very complicated and are multiple wounds, as we've heard in that report. One of the interesting things, though, that we have heard from the President-elect of this country who is very close to Robert Fico and who came to visit him earlier today, as he confirmed that the Prime Minister at this point in time is both conscious and also able to speak. I want to listen to a little bit of what the President-elect had to say.

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PETER PELLEGRINI, SLOVAK PRESIDENT-ELECT: It was a very personal discussion about how he feels and that I am very happy that he survived. I told him that we stand behind him and we think about him and we are sending him a lot of energy that he will handle this very difficult situation. So, it was such a kind of discussion, very personal. I know him over 20 years. So, it was quite logically that we will speak about these kinds of things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: So, there you have Peter Pellegrini, the President-elect of Slovakia, about his conversation with Robert Fico earlier here in the hospital that you see right behind me. He also did say, when he came out, that the Prime Minister still is quite weak, which of course comes as no surprise, considering he suffered those multiple gunshot wounds. And it really does appear as though things were quite on the edge for the Prime Minister for a certain period of time.

The staff from the hospital coming out today, Rahel, and saying that they had to operate for around five hours on the Prime Minister, and there were two teams of surgeons that had to do that. Just giving an indication as to how complicated, how difficult and how severe his wounds were and are. Rahel.

SOLOMON: Yeah. We know in the hours after the shooting, his condition was described as the next few hours being decisive. And so, it has certainly improved from then.

Fred Pleitgen, we appreciate the reporting from on the ground. Fred, thank you.

Well, a red carpet welcome in Beijing for Russian President Vladimir Putin. Chinese President Xi Jinping is hosting President Putin for an official state visit. The two leaders pledged to deepen their strategic partnership. Xi is saying that China would always be a good neighbor and friend to Russia. The visit comes as Russia pushes into northeastern Ukraine. Western sanctions on Russia over the war have brought the two countries closer. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (Interpreted): For the past five years, despite the aftermath of the pandemic, there were some actions from third-party countries directed at containing our development. The trade between Russia and China is growing at a good pace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: And joining us now from Beijing is Marc Stewart. Good to see you again, my friend. Look, these two leaders have met dozens of times. What more do we hear from both of these leaders on this visit?

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Rahel. Good to see you. Look, this is not so much about what's being said as much as what's being seen. The optics of this visit are extremely important, first of all, to see Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin together, this red carpet arrival, the military pageantry. These two men, yes, have a very deep friendship. In fact, if we look at this relationship between Russia and China, it's described as a "no limits" partnership. And it's coming at a time when China, in particular, is trying to establish itself as this leader of a new world order, something different than what the West view is, something different than the United States.

So, it's natural to see this kind of partnership between China and Russia solidify even more on a military standpoint, a philosophical standpoint, on an economic standpoint. And of course, as you mentioned, this is all happening with this backdrop of the war in Ukraine. China maintains it is a neutral player in all of this and has made calls for peace. Yet, it hasn't condemned the war. And then, Russia has made its own arguments. And both sides seem to understand where each other is coming from.

We did hear from Xi Jinping today, and at times, he seemed like he was calling for calm. Let's take a listen.

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XI JINPING, CHINESE PRESIDENT (Interpreted): The Chinese side looks forward to the early restoration of peace and stability on the European continent and will continue to play a key destructive roll to that end.

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SOLOMON: Now, Marc, we know that this visit also comes just days, really, after the Biden ministration announced increased tariffs on some Chinese goods, raising concerns of a trade war between two countries. Talk to us a little bit more about how you would describe the relationship right now between the U.S. and China.

STEWART: Right. Economics, as we both know, is a big part of any storyline, and no exception here. If we look at these tariffs that were instituted by the United States toward China, first of all, I'm going to argue they're largely symbolic, because if we look at some of the items, including electrical vehicles, which is a big point of discussion, the number of electric vehicles that are actually being exported from China into the United States, it's a very small number. But, this is a way for the U.S. to send a message to China that this idea of flooding the market with cheap electronic and consumer goods that China is able to make because of support from the government, it's just not acceptable.

But, it's not the United States is the only one that's making -- that's griping about this. It's Europe and other parts of the world. So, while on the surface this seems like a big deal, and it is, it's not necessarily going to be instituted or creating some kind of back and forth between the U.S. and China, some kind of trade war. It's an analyst from Citi weighed in. They also feel that this is not going to necessarily result in something where we're trying to publish -- China punish its country's -- American companies in China.

By the way, Rahel, I think the real important trade relationship to watch is that between China and Russia, more than $200 billion in trade, US dollars is in this trade relationship. China is buying a lot of Russian energy and fuel, and Russia in part is buying a lot of consumer goods, phones and cars from China. So, that's the back and forth, which I think is probably very interesting to be watching in the months ahead, Rahel.

SOLOMON: No. Very fascinating as well, and then you throw India and India's relationship into all of this, it becomes really --

STEWART: Yeah. Yeah.

SOLOMON: -- fascinating, to say the least. Marc Stewart live for us in Beijing. Marc, thank you.

All right. Just ahead, we're getting new images of a huge explosion in Gaza. Details ahead on what Israel's Defense Minister is saying about the IDF's next steps. Plus, we will bring you up to speed on the trial of a U.S. Senator charged with bribery. We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back.

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SOLOMON: Massive explosion in Jabalia in northern Gaza. That's where Israeli forces have been on the offensive in recent days. Hospital officials say that they have received several bodies and many people who were injured, also in Jabalia.

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The IDF says that five Israeli soldiers died Wednesday in a friendly fire incident during operations there. Meanwhile, to the south, Israel's Defense Minister announced that more forces will be joining the Rafah operation. And with the need for aid growing, more urgent every day, progress is being reported on a U.S.-built floating pier. U.S. Central Command says that it has now been anchored to a beach in Gaza and that trucks should be able to start begin moving ashore in the coming days. One hospital north of Rafah has a team of 17 international medics, including 12 Americans, trapped inside Gaza. They've been unable to leave or bring in more supplies since the Rafah border was closed.

And CNN's Jeremy Diamond spoke with some of those medics.

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DR. AHLIA KATTAN, ANESTHESIOLOGIST AND ICU MEDIC, FAJR SCIENTIFIC: We were evacuated from that safe house which was supposed to be in a deconflicted zone.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After more than two weeks in Gaza, Dr. Ahlia Kattan should be back home in California with her three children.

KATTAN: This is where we've been sleeping.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Instead, she is sleeping on the floor of Gaza's European hospital, as her five-year-old daughter wonders when her mom will come home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love you Mama, you are the best. When will you come back? I want you so much. Happy Birthday to Mama. You are the best ever.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Dr. Kattan and her husband are among at least 22 American physicians now trapped in Gaza after an Israeli military offensive in Rafah shuttered the critical border crossing to Egypt.

KATTAN: But, Rafah borders are now closed, and that was our safe entry and exit. The WHO is trying to negotiate a safe exit for us, and it's not happening.

DIAMOND (voice-over): As Israeli and Egyptian officials trade blame for the crossing's closure --

KATTAN: I'm just on my way to operating rooms.

DIAMOND (voice-over): -- Dr. Kattan and her colleagues are doing what they can to keep this overwhelmed and under resourced hospital running.

LAURA SWOBODA, NURSE PRACTITIONER, FAJR SCIENTIFIC: We were not aware of how dire the situation is here. There wasn't soap to wash our hands between infected wounds with maggots. There wasn't sanitizer wipes to wipe down the tables after each patient.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Israel is now threatening to widen its offensive in Rafah --

SWOBODA: Always we can hear the drones in the background.

DIAMOND (voice-over): -- a move that the U.S. and international aid groups warn will have dire humanitarian consequences, one that will put even more strain on Gaza's already overwhelmed hospitals. KATTAN: All of us don't want to leave unless we are replaced by

physicians and medics and nurses and all the people that are keeping this hospital going. My message to the U.S. government is however they can help to maintain a safe corridor for medics to come in and out to bring supplies, NSLs to support the innocent civilians and women and children. So, please do that.

DIAMOND (voice-over): But, until that happens, Dr. Kattan is stuck, unsure when and how she will make it home.

DIAMOND: What's the most difficult part of that uncertainty right now?

KATTAN: Missing my kids and waking up in the morning and realizing they're not next to me. But, the harder part is knowing that I get to leave eventually and I get to go home and be safe. I've developed a lot of friends here who have are the same age as me and have kids my age and they don't have those securities and those basic necessities.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.

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SOLOMON: All right. Now to the trial of a U.S. Senator accused of conspiracy for trying to obtain contracts with Egyptian and Qatari officials. Attorneys for the two co-defendants of Bob Menendez are delivering their opening statements Thursday, today. Now, on Wednesday, the defense attorney for Menendez said that his client did not engage (TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY) and said that the gold bars that were found at his home actually belonged to his wife. Nadine Menendez, I should say, she is charged separately. Menendez has been charged with taking bribes from New Jersey businessmen and then assisting Egypt and Qatar in the process.

For the latest now, let's bring in CNN's U.S. National Correspondent Jason Carroll. He is in New York for us. So, Jason, give us a sense of what's the latest you're hearing on the trial today.

JASON CARROLL, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's very, very clear from what we've heard so far from the prosecution, let's start there, that they have a very clear sense of what this case is all about. The prosecutor yesterday, Laura Pomerantz, when she was giving her opening statements, at one point she was standing in front of the jurors and pointed directly at Senator Bob Menendez who was sitting there, and she said, look, this is a case about a man who put greed first, who put power up for sale. She went on to say that this was not politics as usual in terms of what was going on.

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This was politics for profit. And she summed it up in part in this way for jurors. She said "He was powerful. He was also corrupt. For years, Robert Menendez portrayed the people he was supposed to serve by taking bribes. And what was his price? Gold bars, cash for his wife, and a job for his wife." Of course, he is talking about all of that gold, the gold bars and cash that was confiscated from the Senator's home in New Jersey that he shares with his wife Nadine. The defense, for his part, Avi Weitzman got up there and spoke to

jurors and addressed what everyone was probably thinking about. And he put it this way. He said, "Look, we've got to address the gold and green elephant in the room." He said, "I know this looks suspicious." This is what he was telling jurors. "I know this looks suspicious. But, there is an explanation for all of this, a simple explanation." And he said that, "Look, those gold bars belong to Nadine's family."

And he also said something else. He really draw -- drew a distinction between Senator Menendez and his wife, saying that they did not share bank accounts, that they in some ways lived separate lives. Then, he said the following. "She wasn't going to let Bob know she had financial problems so she tried to get cash and assets any way she could. But she kept Bob sidelined. Nadine made sure Bob was kept out of conversations involving money. In this case we need to figure out where is Bob in all this?" So, basically laying part of the blame squarely at the feet of Nadine Menendez who, as you know, is being tried separately.

Defense went on to say that there is no way that you can connect Senator Menendez in terms of emails, in terms of phone calls, in terms of text messages. So, no way, they say, that you can connect Senator Menendez to any sort of allegations of any bribes. Again, Nadine Menendez, her trial is scheduled to start in July. This trial expected to last several weeks.

SOLOMON: Yeah. It'd be really curious to see what her defense strategy is after his defense team said that it was --

CARROLL: Right.

SOLOMON: -- it was Nadine.

CARROLL: She might blame him.

SOLOMON: Exactly.

CARROLL: She might end up blaming him.

SOLOMON: Exactly.

CARROLL: Exactly. Yeah.

SOLOMON: Jason Carroll, good to see you. Thank you, Jason.

CARROLL: You bet.

SOLOMON: All right. Ahead, we'll take you back to another New York courtroom where the gloves are definitely off. Michael Cohen getting grilled on the stand by Donald Trump's lead attorney. We'll have the latest developments coming up.

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SOLOMON: Welcome back. You are watching CNN Newsroom. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York. And here are some of the international headlines we're watching for you today.

France has declared a state of emergency for the Pacific Island of New Caledonia.

[11:30:00]

Ongoing riots have killed three indigenous residents and two police officers. Pro-Independence broke out -- after protests broke out after French lawmakers passed a bill Tuesday, allowing certain French residents and the residents the right to vote in local elections. New Caledonia is a French-ruled island. The state of emergency will last for 12 days.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy met with military officials in Kharkiv. This visit comes amid Russia's efforts to push deeper into the northeastern region. Mr. Zelenskyy says that the situation remains extremely difficult, but Ukrainian units in the area are being strengthened.

And back to France and a tense manhunt is in its third day. More than 350 investigators are looking for Mohamed Amra, a convicted drug trafficker, also known as "The Fly". Police say that he escaped from a prison convoy on Tuesday after gunmen ambushed the van that was transporting him. Two prison guards were killed and others were wounded.

Now to colossal wildfires in Canada, driving thousands of people to leave their homes and evacuate. 6,000 people have fled their homes in Alberta since Monday and Fort McMurray. Firefighters there are battling more than 100 blazes across the country. But, they could see some temporary relief as a large storm tracks through western and central regions with increased chances of rain.

All right. Let's go back to Donald Trump's hush money trial. The court is taking its morning break now. Today, though, Michael Cohen has been back on the stand as defense attorneys try to poke holes in his credibility and paint seeds of doubt -- and plant seeds of doubt with the jury. Trump's former fixer-turned-foe was asked about the comments he made on his podcast and on social media attacking the former President and reveling in his indictment. Attorney Todd Blanche then turned the spotlight to Cohen's conviction for perjury after Cohen lied under oath to Congress in 2017.

Back with us is CNN Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider. So, Jessica, since the last time we spoke about, 30 minutes or so, what has happened? I mean, thus far, it seems like Cohen was able to keep his cool. Is that the same?

SCHNEIDER: Well, we just took the morning break in the courtroom, Rahel, and the reporters in there did note that Cohen let out a big sigh as everyone was sort of breaking. I mean, this has been notably more tense in the past hour and a half plus that we've had today's cross-examination than when they first started off on Tuesday. It is interesting, though, the defense team has been harping on Michael Cohen's prior convictions. But, just minutes before the break, for the first time, Todd Blanche did wade into questions about the core of this case. He asked Michael Cohen about that home equity line of credit that Cohen drew from to make the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels before Cohen was eventually paid back by Trump.

So, it was very minor questioning, not a lot of meat to it. But, Blanche did ask Cohen about how he hid that home equity loan and the details of it from his family. The line of questioning, it seemed to be not only touching on the core of this case, but maybe casting some doubt on whether Cohen really did prioritize his family, as Cohen has previously testified that he does. He did say the real reason he pleaded guilty to those federal crimes were because of his family. A little bit of flimsy questioning. But, it is the first time that we're hearing questioning about the core of this case.

Blanche also asked Cohen about deleting some text messages between him and his wife. So, maybe this is all part of the tactic to cast doubt on the truth of Cohen's testimony and make him look not as credible in front of the jury here. So, we've seen a bit of a ping pong in this cross-examination. Isn't doesn't seem to be a through line of questioning. The defense team really just seems to be throwing whatever they can at the wall, seeing what sticks, seeing what might resonate with the jury, Rahel. They've talked about everything from Michael Cohen's hatred of Donald Trump, how he was trying to profit off of Donald Trump, and then a lot most recently in the questioning about Cohen's prior convictions, and prior run-ins with the law.

So, expect to hear more of that as we go through the afternoon. And as they went to break, the judge did remind the jurors to let him know if they're available to hear this case on Wednesday. The judge, rather than taking a usual dark day on next Wednesday, the judge wants to actually hear more of this case. He is trying to get this going. And maybe, who knows, have the jury get this case and deliberate sometime around the Memorial Day holiday. So, we'll see.

SOLOMON: Yeah. That's interesting. Jessica, tell us a bit more about that. So, one, in terms of the timeline, how much longer do we expect cross-examination to last? And because court is not in session tomorrow, any early sense of how soon before the jury actually gets this in their hands?

SCHNEIDER: So, the initial read was that Todd Blanche was going to wrap up cross-examination by the end of the day today.

[11:35:00]

However, we saw some hiccups in the morning, the fact that really cross-examination didn't begin until 10 a.m. There were some objections, some sidebars at the bench. Court is only going until 4 p.m. today. The judge has already told the jury they'll be dismissed then. He'll take up some other matters in this case, just dealing with some housekeeping. That's only about four plus hours away, and then we usually do that hour plus lunch break.

So, it's really quite possible that this cross-examination could bleed into Monday. Rahel, if that's the case and the defense, we're hearing, maybe calling one witness who would be a relatively short witness, an election law expert, I would guess that we would maybe have closing arguments not until Tuesday or Wednesday, and then the jury has to be charged. They have to be told what the law is, how they evaluate this case. So, it's very possible the jury might not start deliberating until right after Memorial Day, which takes us into that last week of May, inching toward June. So, we'll see.

SOLOMON: Wow. Fascinating. Jessica Schneider, good to have you today. Thank you, Jessica.

SCHNEIDER: Thanks.

SOLOMON: All right. Overseas again, returning now to China, the state of Russian President -- the state visit of Russian President Vladimir Putin to Beijing. Chinese leader Xi Jinping welcomed Putin on Thursday. He confirmed China's support for Russia, and said that Beijing would continue to be a good friend, a neighbor and partner. China is Russia's largest trading partner, and that has grown more important, as Western more sanctions against Russia continue.

Joining us now with CNN political and national security analyst, David Sanger. David, good to have you. He is also the author of "New Cold Wars: China's rise, Russia's invasion, and America's struggle to defend the West". So, perfect person to talk to today. David, I want to ask, Putin and Xi had met dozens of time, dozens of times. For Putin, this is his 19th visit to China since Putin became President in 2000. How would you describe the nature of this relationship between Putin and Xi?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Rahel, I would call it an increasingly vital partnership for Putin, and an increasingly convenient one for Xi Jinping. It's not a full alliance, in the way that the United States has allies in NATO or with Japan or South Korea. But, it is central to their one common goal between President Xi and President Putin, which is to provide the world with an alternative to an American-led world order, run on American values.

As you suggested, the two of them have met, in my count, 43, 44 times, something in that range. Just by comparison, President Biden as President has met Putin exactly once, and I doubt there'll be a second one, and a handful of times with Xi Jinping. And of course, he met him often when he was -- when President Biden was Vice President.

The key part of this right now is that Russia has become increasingly dependent on trying to take the oil that it can no longer ship, and the gas that it can no longer ship to Europe. And the Chinese, while not providing arms, have been providing more and more technology that they can use in their weapons.

SOLOMON: It's a fascinating point that it's an alliance or relationship of convenience. And I wonder if it suggests how increasingly isolated Russia is becoming, because you think about, for example, its relationship with India. India has also reportedly bought Russian oil. But, India also had that state visit with the U.S. I mean, Xi Jinping was just in Europe --

SANGER: That's right. SOLOMON: -- I believe, meeting with Macron. And so, there are these countries that use the relationship to their benefit, if you will, although they have these other relationships too. I mean, what does that say about Russia in particular?

SANGER: So, in "New Cold Wars", I have a chapter that has a name from a quote from a Southeast Asian diplomat, who said to me, don't make us choose. And that's sort of basically where the Indians are and many others. Right? They don't want to be forced into a choice between the China camp or the China-Russia camp, which now includes, of course, Iran, North Korea, and the American Western NATO camp.

And I don't blame them. But, in some areas, particularly in emerging technologies, the United States' position increasingly is you're going to have to make a choice. For the Russians, they've done a pretty good job of sanctions evasion. President Biden said that the ruble would be brought down to a rubble in the opening days of the war in Ukraine. Well, Russia grew three percent or four percent last year, and their oil exports have kept up, thanks to the Chinese.

[11:40:00]

SOLMON: Yeah. And I wonder now with Russia sort of appointing this economist to run its defense, I mean, clearly, it has an eye on maintaining its economy and moving forward. I guess the last thing I would ask you, David, is sort of, how do you view these tariffs from the Biden administration? We had a reporter on who said that, it's essentially my words, not his, it is much ado about nothing, that the fears of a trade war are overblown. Do you see it that way as well?

SANGER: The Chinese -- the question isn't really how you or I see it. The question is, how did Chinese see it? Right? And I think they see it as containment. I mean, think of this. The President has, I think quite effectively, and in my view, rightly put restrictions on the most advanced semiconductors, which we do not ship to China, those with the narrowest and the fastest circuitry. The U.S. has put export controls on sending them the equipment to make their own semiconductors. And now, the President has issued what are essentially preemptive sanctions on electric vehicles and so forth. In other words, he is not waiting for the harm to come to the U.S. He is doing this ahead of time.

Now, would this happen if it wasn't an election year? We can debate that. But, it's a very different things that say, we're not even going to let you get a toehold in the market. And that's what the President is doing here. I'm not sure it would hold up necessarily in international trade courts.

SOLOMON: I take your point that it's really how Beijing perceives it in their perspective. Nonetheless, it is great to have your perspective today, David Sanger, on issues like these. Thank you so much.

SANGER: Thank you. Great to be with you.

SOLOMON: Likewise. Good to have you. All right. Coming up, a major milestone for the U.S. stock market.

Here is a real time look at the Dow, making some history today, Dow crossing 40,000 and steadying there, up about three tenths of one percent, perhaps because of that inflation data we got yesterday, perhaps because of the indications of what this might mean from the Fed for rate cuts today. We'll dig into the inflation news and a look at the consumer when we come back.

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SOLOMON: Welcome back. On Wall Street, the Dow has crossed the 40,000 mark for the first time in history. It hit the threshold just about an hour ago, and remarkably is still there. Right now, it's at 40,021, up about three tenth of one percent.

Let's bring in Matt Egan, who joins me now. So, Matt, what I find really fascinating is of course the Dow had flirted with this level, what, about a month ago, maybe a few weeks ago, but it never -- and then it sort of retreated. So, what brought us here now? What got us here this time?

[11:45:00]

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Rahel, it's kind of fitting that this milestone has really been made possible by inflation, right, which has really just been the biggest force for the economy and for the market for the last several years. And it's the fact that yesterday's inflation report showed a cooling. Right? The annual rate of inflation started to tick lower, moving in the right direction, and that has been a big relief to investors on Wall Street. And so, this is a significant milestone. It's one that looked very unlikely just two years ago when a lot of people were freaking out about a potential recession brought on by high inflation. And if those recession fears, if those had actually come true, we'd be talking about Dow 30,000 or Dow 20,000.

So, the fact that the market is up, you can see, up 113 points today, it was a big yesterday, does reflect some greater confidence that the Fed might just be able to pull this off. Right? Maybe they'll be able to get a soft landing where they can tame inflation without causing a recession. And of course, that would be great news for Wall Street and for Main Street. And it is worth pointing out that if you ask some market experts, they'll tell you they don't even really look at the Dow, right, because it's kind of a flawed, average. It's just 30 stocks. They're all large companies. And it's weighted by price instead of market value.

But, listen, when you ask the average person on the street, if you ask them what the Dow is, they think stock market right away. And there -- it is home to 30 of the best known American brands out there. Right? I mean, JPMorgan, Apple, Amazon, McDonald's, Disney, all of them trade in the Dow. And it's not just the Dow hitting record highs. Right? The S&P 500 and the NASDAQ are too.

One other point here, Rahel, is when you talk about market milestones, there is often a debate over who this is good for, right, because it's true that affluent households do own most stocks. So, this does tend to be good news for more affluent households. But, it's also true that more than half of U.S. households own stocks, either directly or indirectly in their 401(k) and their pension funds. So, I do think that we can argue that this really is good news for most Americans. Rahel.

SOLOMON: Yeah. Mark, it -- Matt, it reminds me of something Mark Zandi once told me when I asked him about the Dow, almost crossing 40,000 a few weeks ago, let's put it, and he said the market isn't the economy but it's also not the economy either. So, you get the point.

Matt, thanks for hopping on. Matt Egan there.

EGAN: Thanks, Rahel.

SOLOMON: All right. Staying with the economy, and at a glance, new figures show that U.S. consumers could be reaching their breaking point and it would be easy to blame elevated inflation and the highest interest rates in decades. Government figures revealed that retail sales last month were unchanged compared to March. Economists at FactSet had predicted a rise of four tenths of a percent, according to FactSet. Now, those figures are adjusted for seasonal swings, but not inflation.

But, here is the thing. There may be more to this story than that. Bank of America is betting on consumer spending to stay high and personal savings rates to, well, stay low. They say that baby boomers done with paying their mortgages and their kids' college tuitions, well, they're now spending their sizable (inaudible).

Joining us now from New York is Aditya Bhave. He is a senior economist with Bank of America. Aditya, great to have you. The reason why I wanted to have this conversation is because there is so much talk about the health of the U.S. consumer, and for good reason. Consumer spending is two thirds of GDP. So, it really matters. But, I'm curious, is the consumer cracking, from your perspective? How would you describe the health of the U.S. consumer right now?

ADITYA BHAVE, SR. ECONOMIST, BANK OF AMERICA: Good morning. Thank you for having me. So, we're actually quite optimistic on the U.S. consumer. The way I describe our outlook is a benign moderation. So, we don't expect spending growth to be as strong as last year, which was really very strong. But, at the same time, we think it holds up at around the two percent base, which is still pretty great for the upcoming quarters. As long as the labor market remains healthy, which is our expectation, we think consumer spending should hold up rather well.

SOLOMON: Oh, that is a benign moderation. That is pretty optimistic. So, let me ask, is it just the labor market that you attribute the strength in the consumer too? Is that excess savings? I mean, what are the sort of contributors here?

BHAVE: The way we think about things is that really income growth is the first order driver of consumer spending. As long as income keeps growing, you're getting job growth. You're getting wage growth, that's actually outpacing inflation right now. As long as that continues, so too show the strength in consumer spending. Balance sheets are kind of second order. They help. They give you a buffer and you've had obviously this big run-up in household assets, as the previous speaker said. A lot of that will be accruing to higher income households. So, maybe not as helpful for overall spending. But, first order is income and income growth is looking pretty good right now.

[11:50:00]

SOLOMON: Would you say that the strength that you've seen is spread across income spectrums? Are you seeing any signs of worry at all perhaps among the lower income spectrums? What do you see there?

BHAVE: So, one of the interesting things you're seeing in the official data is that most of the job growth is actually happening in blue collar sectors, right, leisure and Hospitality, healthcare, where anecdotally we think a lot of the hiring is happening with nurses rather than doctors, so kind of more blue collar jobs. And then, wage growth. If you look at it cumulatively, in aggregate, since the start of the pandemic, you've seen the largest wage gains actually at the lower income side of the spectrum.

So, while it is true that lower income households have disproportionately borne the burden of inflation for a variety of reasons, they spend more on necessities, food and energy that have seen the largest price increases. They're also more likely to rent than own. So, there is many reasons why they've borne this burden of inflation. But, a lot of that has been offset by wage growth and job growth that these households have also benefited from.

SOLOMON: Aditya, how do you explain just the remarkable period we've been in with very high interest rates, with very high inflation, obviously cooling, but still historically very high, and the consumer being able to withhold a lot of this? I mean, it wasn't long ago that most of the banks expected, we probably would see a recession, in fact, but that never materialized.

BHAVE: Right. So, there is a few reasons why the economy has been more resilient than expected to higher interest rates. But, I think one of the key ones is that a lot of debt got locked in at low interest rates before the Fed started hiking. Right? So, on the consumer side, the big story would be mortgages. The mortgage rate has gone up a lot, but a lot of households locked in very low mortgage rates, either by refinancing or by taking out mortgages, when rates -- when policy rates were close to zero.

And then you have a similar phenomenon on the business side, where a lot of corporate debt has not yet been rolled over from the rates that were locked in before the Fed started hiking. So, it's really -- this is something that Chair Powell has said as well. It's not just how tight financial conditions are, but how long they remain tight. So, the longer policy rates remain elevated, the greater is the risk that that will have to be rolled over at higher rates. But, that hasn't happened to a great degree so far. Yeah.

SOLOMON: Yeah. That's a fascinating point. And what about more variable debt? So, when you think about credit card balances, have you seen, we know balances in the aggregate are rising, is it rising to a level that's concerning yet to Bank of America from what you can tell?

BHAVE: Right. So, this is not based on our internal data.

SOLOMON: OK.

BHAVE: This is based on New York Fed data. But, based on this public data, we do see that delinquencies have risen significantly, and that is probably the key concern to watch with the consumer. Right? So, there is one thing you want to be worried about, it's that credit card delinquencies are up a lot, according to the public data, and that they've risen the fastest amongst lower income households who also seem to be maxed out on their credit cards at the highest rates. So, that's probably what you want to be concerned about.

SOLOMON: Yeah. Certainly something to watch. But, remind me again, it was a benign moderation. Was that the word?

BHAVE: A benign moderation in consumer spending, with inflation, very slowly starting to behave better, that helps, and the labor market basically remaining strong. So, that's a good mix for the consumer.

SOLOMON: Yeah. For sure. OK. Aditya Bhave, senior economist with Bank of America, thanks so much for the time today.

BHAVE: Thank you.

SOLOMON: All right. We're going to take a quick break. And after that, we'll have one more thing.

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[11:55:32]

SOLOMON: Welcome back. And one more thing. The UK economy could get an injection of around $1 billion, thanks to Taylor Swift and all those Swifties. The British bank, Barclays, estimates nearly 1.2 million Swifties will attend the singer's 15 concerts on the UK leg of her "Eras Tour", and each of those attendees is expected to spend a lot of money in the process. Based on Barclay's numbers, the average fan will shell out over $1,000 on things like accommodations, travel, food, tickets. You're going to get your outfit too. That is more than 12 times what people spend on an average night out in the UK and across all of those tour dates. All of this could add up to a billion dollar boost. It's the Swifty effect.

Well, speaking of money, we know your time is money. So, thank you for spending some time with me. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York. Stick with CNN. One World, it's coming up next.

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