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Netanyahu Rejects Ultimatum From War Cabinet Member Benny Gantz; Gazans Intercept Aid Trucks Amid Skepticism Over New Floating Pier; Interview With Rep. Jim Himes (D-CT); Putin Meets With Chinese President Xi In Show Of Strength; Interview With Jonathan Dekel-Chen; CNN Political Commentator Alice Stewart Dies at 58. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired May 18, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:01:00]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in Washington.

And we are following breaking news in the Middle East. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu rejecting an ultimatum from a member of his own war cabinet. Former Israeli defense minister Benny Gantz is threatening to quit unless Netanyahu agrees on a war plan by June 8th.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENNY GANTZ, MEMBER OF ISRAELI WAR CABINET: After 20 years almost of Hamas controlling the area, they're building the most sophisticated operational infrastructure in Gaza there is no shortcut.

And if you want to win this to secure a better future for all of us it calls for decisiveness and that's what we should mobilize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: That call for urgency coming as the Israeli military says it has recovered the body of another hostage inside Gaza. Officials say Ron Benjamin was killed during the October 7 attacks and his body was taken into Gaza by Hamas.

Also breaking tonight dramatic new video showing many people intercepting aid trucks that had just arrived in Gaza today through that floating U.S. military pier.

CNN's Elliott Gotkine is tracking all of these developments and joins us now from Tel Aviv.

Let's talk first Elliott, about that desperately needed humanitarian aid in Gaza and the video we just showed everyone.

ELLIOTT GOTKINE, CNN JOURNALIST: Jessica, this is the $320 million floating pier that the U.S. has financed and built to help increase the amount of aid getting into the Gaza Strip. And as we can see, and we've seen this in the past with aid trucks

coming into the Gaza Strip by land that there is such a severe humanitarian situation and famine and in some places or certainly the cusp of famine in some places that people are prepared to even board moving trucks to try to seize the food.

And that's what we saw with several men seizing, you know, intercepting these trucks and seizing some of the aid that was on board.

And the thing is that this pier has become even more important over the last couple of weeks because the Rafah crossing, which is where most of the aid was coming through from Egypt into the Gaza Strip, that's effectively been closed since Israel took control of that border crossing.

So instead of seeing more and more aid going in as the U.S. administration certainly has been insisting must happen less aid has been getting in.

So this floating pier couldn't come sooner enough. The target the U.S. is to bring in some 500 tons of aid every single day, Jessica.

DEAN: And let's also talk about this turmoil within Netanyahu's government. The prime minister now rejecting that ultimatum from Benny Gantz. What more was Netanyahu saying today?

GOTKINE: He dismissed Benny Gantz's ultimatum. He described them as washed-up words and said that to adhere to or to do what Benny Gantz was suggesting would effectively hand victory to Hamas and literally abandonment of the hostages still being held in the Gaza Strip after they were abducted on October the 7th.

And I think what we're seeing here is these divisions in Israel's war cabinet, which have been reasonably contained over the past few months, now bursting into the open.

Just the other day, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, who is the third member of the war cabinet. He implicitly criticized Prime Minister Netanyahu, who's from his own party, let's not forget, effectively because he's not really got a coherent plan in place for the day after the war in the Gaza Strip.

Now we've got Benny Gantz making these criticisms are as well. I should note though, of course, that Benny Gantz is also the key political rival to Prime Minister Netanyahu. So not only is he criticizing Netanyahu, but he is also if you like positioning himself in front of the electorate for the day when elections come.

[17:04:52]

GOTKINE: That said, even if Gantz leaves the war cabinet, that doesn't mean that it's going to precipitate elections so long as Netanyahu can keep his far-right ministers in the fold, in his governing coalitions, then you won't have to face the electorate for another 2.5 years, Jessica. DEAN: All right.

A lot of good context. Elliott Gotkine, thanks so much for that update. We appreciate it.

And joining us now, Democratic Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut. He's also a ranking member on the House Intelligence Committee. Congressman thanks so much for making time this evening.

I first want to ask you about that reporting that Elliott was just laying out about the Gazans intercepting aid from the floating pier. What's your reaction to that?

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): Well Jessica, thanks for having me and sadly, were going to see more and more scenes like that as the humanitarian situation which is already terrible inside of Gaza with, you know, malnutrition and starvation, fairly rampant. We're going to see more and more of that sort of thing. It will become increasingly difficult to deliver aid just because people will be so desperate.

And of course, the more that that is true, the more at risk the United States and United States military is as it guard and manage this pier which frankly is just -- you know, I can't imagine a more tangible symbol of embarrassment that the United States, which over the many, many years has given in the neighborhood of $150 billion to Israel that we would have to build this pier, that we can't convince the Israelis and the prime minister in particular to open humanitarian corridors such that we have to build this absurd naval asset to get it in, is really problematic.

So look, I hope that the pier works. It never should have been necessary, and I hope that the prime minister will take seriously for the first time the need to really open substantial humanitarian corridors and allow the food and the medicine and the things that the people of Gaza need into -- into Gaza.

DEAN: And you call it an embarrassment for the U.S. that it has to be there. I'm curious if you I think that the U.S. should continue to support Israel. Do you think it should continue to send it weapons and aid.

HIMES: I do. And look, I understand that this is a nuanced position that is sort of inconsistent with the polarization that we people -- that we see as people sort of join a team. I absolutely believe to my core that Israel has a right to defend itself and to go after and to eliminate the architects and the people who executed the most the appalling terrorist attack that we have seen in a very long time on October 7.

It is also true that the Israelis and the prime minister in particular should do this very differently than they have in the last seven months.

This prime minister, who in my opinion, has not done nearly enough to protect civilians who has it not just not outlined an end game, which of course his own defense minister is demanding and which he rejected. He has rejected a two-state solution over and over and over again. So

while he has in my opinion in the laudable goal of defending Israel, been practically out of control with respect to the humanitarian situation.

He's dismissed any hope for the Palestinians that ultimately are going to need to be a solution here. He has turned a blind eye to some truly appalling violence on the part of settlers in the West Bank. And he has sort of saber-rattled with respect to, you know, going to war with Iran and other things that would conceivably have the effect of drawing the United States into a regional war.

So my hope is and look, it's not American politicians job to get involved in Israeli domestic politics, but I hope that the prime minister will start listening to those people in his own party who are saying, you know, this is not good for the long-term strategic interests of Israel.

DEAN: and on that note, I am going to ask you, an American politician, I am -- I do want to know what your reaction is to Benny Gantz's ultimatum.

It sounds like from what you're saying, you want him to listen to some of these people within his government.

HIMES: I would like it if the prime minister would listen to anyone. And you know, I've been in his company any number of times and my experience has been that that's not what he does. And he has an awful lot to answer for starting with, of course, October 7 and how that was ever allowed to happen.

And you know, he has shown the back of his hand to the president of the United States, time and time again, even as the president of the United States has risked his own office to stand with Israel to say that I will continue to support this generational ally of ours.

And what troubles me most here is what happened has been a catastrophe for all concerned. But every party and I don't for one second believe that Hamas will do this, but every party, the Israelis, the world, the Americans, you name it the Jordanians, et cetera, have to have an eye on what the future looks like.

[17:09:48]

HIMES: If you don't have a plan for the future this war will grind on and on and on. Israeli soldiers will die. Gazan civilians will die. And in the long run, that's not acceptable.

DEAN: And I want to ask you too, about this meeting between the Chinese President Xi Jinping and Russian President Vladimir Putin. We're seeing them come together.

Back in April, Secretary Blinken warned of Chinese attempts to influence the upcoming election. And of course, Russia has been accused of doing the same. And now we have them meeting with each other in this election year. How concerned are you about their relationship and what can be done to

make sure that they don't meddle in American elections?

HIMES: well, two separate issues.

I have very little doubt that the Russian military effort today is sustained largely by the oil purchases in the trade between China and Russia. And generations from now, if China sort of figures out how to get back into to the stable rule-driven world order, which I think they have a profound interest in doing, they will have to answer to history for doing that.

There are Ukrainians dying on the battlefield today because the Chinese have supported the Russian economy. And I think that's unconscionable.

By the way, they're not the only ones. I wish the Indians would not be so keen about purchasing at a deeply discounted price the oil of a murderous regime that is looking to completely rewrite the global order.

You know, It is not inconceivable that China or India might someday be the subject of a territorial dispute. By the way, they have territorial disputes with each other.

And so you know, it's a profoundly cynical game that Chinas playing because Russia has effectively become an oil supplying vassal to them and they need energy. But you know, again, the impact on the ground in Ukraine is just morally appalling.

DEAN: And before I let you go, I want to come back here to America and domestic politics. I do want to ask you about what happened in the Oversight Committee earlier this week with the back-and-forth and the name calling that was going on in that meeting.

And you know, you think about Americans watching this unfold and they think what -- how is this good for anyone and how is anything getting done up there.

What would you say to them?

HIMES: Well, let me connect it to the previous conversation we just had and look, you know, Twitter, TikTok, Instagram world, I know that it entertains people.

But we are the most powerful country on the planet. Our government is really essential. We are or have been a model to the rest of the world. There's a reason why everybody wants to come to the United States and its partly economic, it's also partly because we have a functioning government.

And sadly, what we saw in the oversight committee the other night was a circus. It was clown-like and not only is it not befitting a country that I think of as a great country, but it just plays right into and this is connecting it to our previous discussion, exactly what President Xi and Vladimir Putin would like the world to see.

They would like the world to see, you know, in the very core of American democracy, a circus. And of course, that's what they saw in that oversight hearing and frankly, you know, I understand that its good and funny content for Instagram and TikTok, but it's a serious and dangerous world and the world needs to know that the United States is being statesman-like and deliberate in the way we govern ourselves and the way we act in the world.

DEAN: Congressman Jim Himes, thanks so much for the time tonight. We appreciate it.

HIMES: Thank you.

DEAN: We'll be right back.

[17:13:27]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Benny Gantz, a key member of the Israeli war cabinet, is threatening to withdraw from the government if a fuller plan for the war in Gaza is not in place by early June, and that ultimatum is escalating what has already been a growing rift between Gantz and Benjamin Netanyahu, who Gantz had previously run against to replace as prime minister.

Gantz wants a plan for all aspects of the conflict from eliminating Hamas to establishing an alternative government in the Gaza Strip. But one key demand is the safe return of the many hostages who are still being held by Hamas.

Jonathan Dekel-Chen' son Soggy, has been missing since Hamas attacked Israel on October 7. And Jonathan joins this now.

Jonathan, thank you for making time. I first want to just say we are so sorry. I know. You think about this every waking moment and I hope that your son is back to you very soon.

JONATHAN DEKEL-CHEN, SON WAS KIDNAPPED BY HAMAS: Thank you.

DEAN: I want to ask you about the remarks made by former defense minister Benny Gantz earlier today. And what you think about what he had to say.

DEKEL-CHEN: Well look, I think that all Israelis or almost all Israeli certainly believe that now is not the time for petty politics on any side.

We are in the midst of a national crisis. We need politicians to be states people and leaders. And not trying to -- not interested mostly in narrow -- their own personal narrow and political interests. And that's the demand from Israeli society.

[17:19:46] DEKEL-CHEN: And that all comes down to getting the hostages home. It is an absolute consensus in Israel that that should be the first priority. It's been clear to most Israelis for most of these last horrific seven months that our government, in all of its parts, has not prioritized the fate of the hostages enough.

And I can't say for sure what this or that politician' statement -- how that could possibly benefit the fate of the hostages. We need action and not political squabbling. And that action is long overdue and that is the demand from Israelis.

This is not, you know, about arm wrestling in domestic Israeli politics. That is of very little interest to anyone.

DEAN: It sounds like and I feel like I'm hearing from you that you feel as if the government has failed here.

DEKEL-CHEN: Well, the government failed miserably on October 7. Benjamin Netanyahu has been prime minister since -- from the vast majority of the time since 1996. What happened on October 7, was a catastrophic failure of leadership, and obviously military intelligence, but mostly leadership.

And this very same government has, for the most part, refused to take any kind of real accountability for what has happened. And has been as hundreds of thousands, millions of Israelis in the street will say has been totally unresponsive to the demands to do more to get our hostages home.

These people, both the 1,500 who were murdered by Hamas on October 7, and now, hundred and 28 remaining hostages, we hope most know that not all of them are alive, but most of them they cannot be abandoned again, after October 7.

And our government far too often and the individual ministers have made it clear that they are willing to sacrifice these hostages for some fantastical war victory that for them in -- it leaves the hostages behind.

DEAN: And so what is, what is the right outcome for you in your eyes right now? Is it to go to the talks and agree? What would you like to see happen?

DEKEL-CHEN: Look until October 7, I and my family, including my son's young family, lived on Kibbutz Nir Oz which is a mile from the border with Gaza. We have been living with Hamas rockets and mortars and attack tunnels, anti-tank fire, explosive kites, incendiary balloons since 2007, no one needs to convince me that Hamas must be eradicated as a military and a governing force.

It's important for the world, not just for Israelis, especially important for Palestinians because this misery that they're experiencing, the million Palestinians, its source is Hamas.

Now in a world that was somehow rational, Hamas would end the suffering of everyone by releasing these hostages that were ripped from their homes. Evidently that's not going to happen because brutal terrorist organizations don't do that sort of thing.

So in absence of that while the Israeli military, of course, its job is to put pressure on Hamas as much as possible. That being said the only way the vast majority of Israelis and most of the Israeli military and intelligence establishment believes that the only way that those remaining hostages who are still alive can come home alive to Israel is by -- through some sort of negotiated process in conjunction with pressure -- both military pressure and international pressure on Hamas.

In order to arrive at any kind of negotiated settlement as painful as it might turn out to be for Israel, you have to remain at the negotiating table and mobilize to the degree that you can the intermediaries and work in conjunction with them. And Israeli government has not been consistent about its commitment to this awful negotiation process.

It would be wonderful if we had decent negotiating, if we had on the other side some decent human beings. We do not. We have animals on the other side. But that's who we have to negotiate with through our intermediaries.

[17:24:40]

DEKEL-CHEN: And our demand -- both families of the remaining 128 hostages but also Israeli society as a whole, demands from our government that it commit and stay committed to this negotiation process, at least as much as its committed to this idea of the physical eradication of Hamas which in and of itself will not get our hostages home alive.

DEAN: Jonathan Dekel-Chen, thank you so much. We're wishing you all the best and we hope you see your son very soon.

We'll be right back.

DEKEL-CHEN: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: We have some very sad news to report to you and I'm very sorry that I have to tell you this.

[17:29:45]

DEAN: CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Alice Stewart, has passed away.

Many of you know her. She's been a staple on this network participating in many political panels, bringing us deep insight into politics.

[17:30:00]

You'll remember she was a former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz. She worked with Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachman, to name a few.

She also hosted a podcast with her friend and Democratic strategist, Maria Cardona, called "Hot Mics from Left to Right."

Alice and I both got our start in Arkansas television and local news. And when I was coming up as an intern, she was working there. And as we both made our way to CNN, she was always available with an encouraging smile or a text as I climbed my way up the ladder here.

And I know that, personally, I'll miss her very much and I'm very sad to hear this news.

And she brought us all so much information and insight and was such a valuable piece of the team here at CNN. And we are all processing this news as it was so sudden.

And joining us now on the phone is CNN anchor, Wolf Blitzer.

Wolf, hi. This is a terrible thing to have to report to everyone. Alice was such, not only a wonderful insight and brain and asset here at CNN, but she was also just a good person, a person whose faith was so much at the center of her life.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (via telephone): You are absolutely right, Jessica. She was really, really a very special woman. She was always an excellent, excellent, friendly colleague.

Was always there for us whenever we needed her, including yesterday, which she was on with me and Maria Cardona. I know she had a special relationship, a good working relationship with Maria as well. They were very good friends and colleagues.

And I am so sad. When I heard just a little while ago, it just broke me up. Very, very sad to hear because we will miss her greatly. She's just a wonderful, wonderful friend, a wonderful colleague, a great person.

Going back to all your memories going back many, many years in Arkansas.

DEAN: Absolutely. And you know, Wolf, and I would think you probably feel the same way. You know, when you're in television, you have the relationship with each other on television, but there's then, of course, the breaks and the Green Room and you see each other in the hallway.

And what was wonderful and sparkling about Alice was that it was as much fun and maybe even more fun to see her in those moments, in those human moments, as well as when we had her on talking about politics.

BLITZER: And to be -- was always something good to talk about with her. That's why we always invited her to come on my show. Because we knew we would be a little bit smarter at the end of that conversation than we were at the beginning of that conversation.

Because she always helped us better appreciate what was going on. She helped our viewers better appreciate what was going on. And that's why we will this her so, so much.

Even yesterday, when she was on with Maria Cardona, she posted a picture of the three of us afterwards and it was just a friendly reminder of how specialist woven really is -- was.

DEAN: Absolutely, absolutely.

Wolf, stay with us. We want to come back to you.

I believe we also have CNN anchor, Dana Bash.

Dana, are you with us?

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR (via telephone): I am, Jessica.

DEAN: Oh, Dana, I am so sorry that we're talking under these circumstances. But you know, I -- I'm thinking about you and your background in coming up in politics and you covering Arkansas politics too. You've known Alice a long time.

BASH: I have. I first met Alice in 2007. She was working on the Mike Huckabee presidential campaign, his first one. And it was an upstart campaign. And I was a political reporter and I was assigned to cover all of the Republican candidates.

And I -- like many of us, kind of just set up shop in Iowa. And Alice was somebody who was one of the people who was certainly a true believer of Mike Huckabee. And it was her first entree into national politics, working on the Huckabee campaign.

And even then, she was doing her job and acting as a spokesperson, a press secretary for Mike Huckabee. She was always somebody who told it straight. She told it straight with a smile, with good nature.

And she also had this understanding of what it is that we, as reporters, as journalists, needed. First and foremost, the facts, information, but also sort of the color and the context about why her boss was doing what he was doing, and why the campaign was doing what it was doing.

Because, as you said it when you came on, Jessica, she -- she came from journalism. She started out in her home state of Georgia and Savannah, and then she went to Little Rock where she was an anchor.

As you said, it was where you were as well, until she made the move over to politics to work for the then-governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee, before she ended up on the presidential campaign that I was talking about.

[17:35:05]

And so that's when I first met her. And she was so valuable to not just to Mike Huckabee.

But after his campaign was over, to other candidates who sort of hired her right away when they decided that they, too, wanted to run for president, whether it was Rick Santorum in 2012, Ted Cruz in 2016. She also worked for Michele Bachmann.

And in-between, she would, you know, continue to sort hone her skills and her knowledge and our expertise. And that, Jessica, is what we benefited from at CNN.

One of the many reasons she was so valuable to us on our political panels and part of our discussions to us and to our viewers is because she brought that experience. She brought that understanding of how Republican politics, Republican campaigns work.

And she never, ever did it with anything other than a smile, with even keel. And it was so important to have her.

And as you started saying -- and I'll toss it back to you, Jessica -- the key thing that people should know about Alice is also what we got to know behind the scenes and on the human level.

And just one thing ill share with you is it was just, maybe a month ago, I walked into the makeup room and there was just beautiful vase with beautiful flowers and they looked like fresh cut flowers.

And I said, where did this come from? It's so pretty. And they said, oh, Alice cut these from her garden and brought this in because she knew that it would make us happy.

And that, in a nutshell, was Alice Stewart.

DEAN: I love that story. Dana, and it's so, so, so true.

Of course, here, everyone is absorbing this news. As you mentioned, behind the scenes, too, the makeup room's just out that door. We have a (INAUDIBLE) here.

And she was beloved. And it is -- it is very hard for everyone to kind of grapple with this very sudden loss.

Dana, thank you so much.

I want to go now to Laura Coates, CNN anchor, Laura Coates, who's also with us.

And, Laura, I know you and Alice were close, too.

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Oh, my god. I just can't believe it, Jessica --

DEAN: I know.

COATES: -- to think about Alice being gone. I -- you know, I was a contributor, as you all know, before I became an anchor. And we are friends.

I mean, we are -- when people think about, I wonder what happens behind the scenes and when people have different viewpoints, when people don't agree politically, or perhaps in other ways, I wonder what it must be like behind the scenes. And let me tell you what it was like if Alice Stewart was in the room.

If she was in the room, she was unapologetically guided by her moral compass.

She was as interested in your viewpoints as she was expressive about her own. She ensured that somebody had a space to communicate.

That even if it meant that there was a disagreement, that there was still grace and honor and your ability to say it, and her ability to have an open mind to receive it.

And her goal was not to change your mind. Her goal was to ensure that all of us had an opportunity to give information and to make sure that people had a voice and that people felt seen and represented in whatever spectrum, whatever view, whatever walk of life.

And I really just so appreciated her as a human being, as a friend. I always admired her curiosity.

It honestly sounds very odd for me to use the past tense when I'm talking about Alice, because, you know, she is somebody who routinely filled in for me on Sirius XM, the POTUS channel, as a well-respected journalist, as a radio host. She was an Emmy Award-winning journalist as well.

And so she would take the reins repeatedly, consistently, and have dynamite conversations where people looked forward to hearing the way that she was able to navigate complex and difficult minefields in a way that left you feeling more resolved, more informed.

And you always felt that she was a good person. I'm so glad that Dana mentioned the tulips that she would bring. Because it really is such an analogy for her life, where she would recognize something and say, this would make somebody happy and I'm going to share it with the world.

And I am going to sincerely miss my friend, my colleague. I'm going to miss the conversations we were able to have, the support, woman to woman, she would give. The behind-the-scenes championing and cheerleading.

[17:40:00]

She would see something, she would say something, she would give you an expression or a look to tell you that she saw something, too. And then she would talk to you about it.

And whether it was seeing her in the hallways or in the makeup room or outside the -- the bureau or anywhere, Alice Stewart will be remembered for her grace, for her beautiful mind, her spirit, and the way she made you feel when you were in her presence.

DEAN: I could not agree more with all of those things, Laura. You are absolutely describing the friend and colleague that we all knew so well. And were also hearing on X from Jake Tapper, our colleague, "Horrible news about our beloved and gifted commentator, Alice Stewart. Just awful. We are all gutted."

Also from Kaitlan Collins, "Just devastating news about our colleague, Alice Stewart. She will always be remembered by her kindness above all."

We've got Jim Acosta on the line as well.

Jim, it was her kindness. I mean, Laura is describing the cheerleading. And I mentioned this a little bit ago. I was on the receiving end of that. And it was just -- it's so nice and kind to have somebody out there that is willing to cheerlead you and encourage you.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR (via telephone): Yes.

DEAN: And that's what was an amazing thing about Alice. And I know the two of you, on this particular show, set for many, many segments together.

ACOSTA: Yes. Yes, Jessica I -- I'm really heartbroken over this. Alice was a friend. She wasn't just a panelist or an expert. I loved her so much. And she and I got to be friends back in the 2012 campaign. She was working for Rick Santorum back then.

I got my first taste of Alice's tremendous wit. And there was -- there was a summit during that campaign where a Mitt Romney aide said, well, we're not worried about what Romney said during the primaries. We can just do an Etch-A-Sketch and he'll be just fine for the general election.

And we were at a Mitt Romney rally one day and Alice shows up. And she says, Jim, I'm here. Come outside. And Alice had a bag full of Etch-A- Sketches that she was handing out to the press.

She had pulled over at a Toys-R-Us and bought a bunch of small Etch-A- Sketches to try to point across from the Sanatorium campaign that Mitt Romney can't get away with this.

Anyway, that's the kind of sense of humor that Alice brought to the table. She was conservative but, you know, what -- for her, it wasn't about winning every debate, every argument. She sincerely held onto her beliefs.

And that was one reason why I always enjoyed having her on with Maria Cardona because we can have these. And we did it for years on the weekend edition of NEWSROOM.

You know, you can have these heart-to-heart conversations, you know, very strongly held views could be expressed, but done in a civil and professional manner.

And I think that's what sets Alice apart from so many other political pundits, that she -- she really led with the heart. And one other thing that we should know about Alice is that she was a fellow up at Harvard, and invited me up there one time, invited a lot of CNNers up there.

And this was -- politics was just a passion for her. It was her life. And it just flowed out of her.

And just to echo what Dana and Laura was saying, absolutely. That's why we're all broken up over this, is because she was such a tremendously kind person and always, as Laura was saying, a few moments ago, always trying to lift you up.

She always came on set with this big smile on her face and that -- that wonderful southern accent of hers. And any stress you had would just melt away when you're in her presents.

And I'm just going to miss her dearly. And it does remind me of what we are told that God takes the good ones early. And I'm -- I'm going to miss her --

DEAN: I know.

ACOSTA: -- terribly.

DEAN: It is a very, very sad day. And it is -- it is a hard thing to absorb.

And, Jim, I know it is hard, it is -- I'm aching with you listening to you talk about it because it is such a devastating piece of news.

Again, if you're just joining us, we're very sad to report that our political commentator, Alice Stewart, has died at the age of 58.

Dana, if you're still there, I'd like to go back to you.

Because Jim brought up something that I also think is worth repeating, because you've also covered politics for a while now. And politics is what it is today. It is very divided. It is hyper-partisan. It is rough and tumble. It is insults all the way.

[17:45:07]

And what was unique about Alice is that she wasn't like that. She was smart.

BASH: No.

DEAN: She was firm. She was very much a believer in her conservative values and her conservative beliefs. But she was -- she was not mean- spirited. And she never -- she always stayed above the fray. And that's unique these days.

BASH: Yes, sure. Sorry. (INAUDIBLE)

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, I'm thinking just even of some the most sort of personal, contentious politically, but very deeply held philosophical debates that go on and are still raging and was really exploded after Roe v. Wade was overturned.

And I'm just thinking about some of the conversations that she had on abortion. I mean, that's an example of where she had -- had very deep philosophical, I believe, religious belief in her -- in her views against abortion.

And it was a conversation that she would have in various forums. And she would express herself in a way that was really important for our viewers and for people on America to hear, particularly when she was having a debate with somebody who disagreed with her.

Because she could do it in a way that was with her heart, with her head, but not with any anger, any ire. And it was that, just as an example. to something I was thinking about.

One of the important examples of how crucial it was to have her and her -- not just her point of view. But her, her as a person, her to express that point of view and also to give the political analysis of how it's playing.

Because she worked in politics for so many high-profile candidates. And in so many, so many places. It was invaluable.

And that's where kind of, again, the very kind person, the warm soul that were describing cannot be separated from the ideas and the smarts that she expressed to give to our viewers and give our colleagues an understanding, a better understanding of our political discourse.

DEAN: Absolutely, absolutely.

Stay with us.

We have Maria Cardona on the phone as well.

Maria, are you there?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (via telephone): Hi, Jessica. Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: Oh, Maria. OK, well, I'm so sorry that we are talking about this. And I know you and Alice spent a lot of time together. Opposite sides of the political aisle, but a real friendship that you two had.

CARDONA: That's exactly right, Jessica. I'm going to try to make it through.

Alice was a sister to me. And everything that everyone has said is absolutely right on.

I'll talk about the civility and the decency of our debates. Every time that she and I were on, we've never pulled any punches in terms of the debate that we were having on politics.

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: You sure didn't.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: But -- but what always stood out, Jessica, is that we did it with civility and respect and love.

And if there's anything that everyone should remember about her -- and I think this has been underscored by everyone who has spoken -- is that Alice loved. Period.

DEAN: Yes.

CARDONA: She loved. She loved her family. She loved her dog, Sami, that I think all of us knew and adored as well. She loved what she did for CNN. She loved what she did at Harvard IOP.

And she loved communicating her passion about politics, about the importance of what she held dear in terms of doing these conversations, these really difficult conversations, especially in today's environment, doing it with respect and civility.

And I remember, Jessica, the day that we were all sent home from CNN when everyone was going virtual because of the pandemic, we were no longer going to be in the bureau.

[17:50:07]

Alice and I had just finished, I think, we were on with Jim Acosta -- was one of the last times that we were on the air in the bureau.

As we went to a coffee shop right down the street, and we said, we need to continue these conversations because, more than ever, people need to see that people who don't agree can actually have these civil conversations.

And that's when the idea for our podcast, "Hot Mic from Left to Right," was born. And we did it. We did it throughout the pandemic. We still have it going on as you know.

And I'm talking to you, and it's still so unreal to me. And what I remember most about her, Jessica, is that every single time that I talked to her, whether we were at the bureau or whether we were on the phone, she would finish her sentence with, OK. Maria, I'll talk to you later. I love you.

DEAN: Yes.

CARDONA: And I would say exactly the same thing back to her. And I said it to her yesterday when I was on with her, when we had just finished with Wolf. We were going to see each other this weekend. We thought maybe we were going to be on, because people always call us at the last minute if they need to. We were scheduled to be on, on Monday, with Jim. And we were going to do our podcast. We were going to do our podcast today.

And I just can't believe that she's gone. But I want everyone to know what a special person she was, especially in this industry. As you know, today's politics can be so indecent and so dirty.

And Alice was just such a loving, shining light that paints -- she came into a room and she would light it up and she was witty and smart and funny.

And she would always tease me right before our segments when we went on, when, you know, sometimes you have to tell us, Jessica, OK, ladies, keep it tight --

(LAUGHTER)

CARDONA: And she would turn to me and say, did you hear that, Maria? Thirty seconds.

(LAUGHTER)

CARDONA: You can't filibuster me.

(LAUGHTER)

CARDONA: She would always tease me like that, as you know. And so I love her dearly, as we all do.

A huge loss for CNN. It's a huge loss for politics. It's a huge loss for our conversations to her and to the country and to the world and to her life.

DEAN: I think that's so true. And I think what a testament to a life lived. You know, she really did sparkle, Maria. You're exactly right. When she walked into a room, it just lit up.

And she brought such positive and happy joy -- I think joyful is probably the right word. Joyful energy just kind of followed her.

And it is that is a rare thing.

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: -- that's a rare thing to see today.

And especially, as we keep going back to, in television news and politics. That can be a place that can sometimes be a bit without joy and not so sparkly.

And we're very lucky that she brought that to us.

And, Maria, I know, too, you being personally close with her, as we all, so many of us were, you know, her faith was such a big part of her life as well. And she -- that was so important to her.

She just had -- she had many layers, as we all do, as anyone does with a life well lived.

CARDONA: That is exactly right. And that is part of what made her such a loving person.

And I think I've heard Dana talk about, you know, one of the toughest conversations that she and I ever have had, both personally and on the air, was about abortion.

Because of her faith. And you know, I come at it as a person of faith as well. And those kinds of conversations, as you can imagine, Jessica, could get really nasty and personal.

But we thought that it was really important to have that delicate conversation and to bring to the fore all of what we brought to it, her with her faith, me with mine.

And I think that was something that was so special that I could always do with her. And I can't do that with everybody. And she just brought such an incredibly delicate, loving, and sharp perspective.

[17:55:02]

And we always sought to bring light instead of heat to our arguments, even though they would get a little bit heated, but were never personal, as you know.

And I will always remember -- you know, she -- she knows me and my family and she knows my kids. And she went to my daughter (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

And she knew when my daughter was confirmed. And she gave me, for Maya Luna, she gave me this gift and it was a beautiful, beautiful cross for my daughter. I wasn't expecting it.

And it was just -- I was just so touched because, to her, that was such a big part of her life. And she knew that it was for us as well. It's safe.

And it wasn't a -- it wasn't something that she put on to show off. She lived it every day. And we all saw that every day. Was such an important part of who she was.

And I will miss her tremendously and desperately every single day.

I think what she -- again, what she brings to politics is something that we should all endeavor to keep alive. Because it was such an important part, the civility, the respect, the humanity. That was all Alice. And we all love her for it.

DEAN: Yes. The humanity, that's it. That's it right there.

Maria, we're so grateful for your memories of Alice. And we're all very sad. And I wish I could hug you.

But thank you for talking with us.

CARDONA: Thank you, Jessica. Thank you. I really appreciate it.

DEAN: I know.

All right. We're going to be right back. We're going to take a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)