Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Iran's President Raisi Involved In Helicopter Crash; Biden Delivers Historic Commencement Speech At Morehouse College; National Security Adviser, Jake Sullivan Meeting With Netanyahu, Aired 3-4p ET

Aired May 19, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:59]

ANNOUNCER: This CNN Breaking News.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello again, everyone. I thank you so much for joining me this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, and we begin with this breaking news that could have global implications.

Iran's president, Ebrahim Raisi has been involved in a helicopter crash in a remote part of the country. Raisi's condition is unknown and rescuers are having difficulty trying to locate the crash site and getting to it because of fog and bad weather.

Iran's supreme leader is calling for everyone to pray for Raisi's health and vowing there will be no disruption in Iran's government.

We've got full coverage of this developing story and we begin with CNN's Nic Robertson. Nic, what more are you learning about trying to locate the crash site?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, it doesn't seem to be fixed yet. They do seem to have an idea, a precise idea of the size of the area they're looking at, perhaps about two kilometers square that sort of size areas, it is about a mile-and-a-half square, so not a massive area, but it is rugged. It is high in the mountains. It is dark now. It is freezing. It is mere freezing conditions, very cold we are told.

It is too foggy for the helicopters to fly, and it is nine hours now since that helicopter was first reported missing. There has been some news from the site of the crashed helicopter. There was some communication between one of the crew and one of passengers onboard the helicopter, and the government has reported that that communication happened a couple of occasions and they say the report from the team on the ground that the crew member and the passenger on the ground who they were able to contact was that the impact or the crash wasn't that severe.

But despite the passage of so much time, despite having had that level of communication, the advice that the government is giving to the people of Iran at the moment is that pray for the president and the foreign minister and the other senior dignitaries who were on that helicopter with him. So it does seem that because the mountains are rugged, they are promote, the terrain is hard to move through on foot, it is very muddy, it is hard to get vehicles in close. They've got mountain climbers in there. They've got paramedics on-site, ambulances, on- site.

The army is helping, the police are helping. The elite IRGC are also involved in this search and recovery mission at the moment. And the reason that the president was there in the first place, right up there in the very northwest of Iran was to open a dam earlier in the day. It was a big deal. It was right on the border with Azerbaijan.

Azerbaijan's president came down to the border. They met at the border. They had a meeting after the inauguration of the dam, so this was a very big moment for the Iranians, particularly in their diplomacy within the region, but an important signal for Iranians as well.

Here was a president inaugurating a new project to benefit the people of the country. But now of course, it has turned to this intense speculation, in the fog, in the cold weather. Some limited contact with some people who are on the ground who were in the same helicopter as the president, but still not able to fix a location as best we know, not able even to get there.

WHITFIELD: Thank you so much, Nic.

To you, Kevin Liptak traveling with the president of the United States who is in Detroit for a speech and dinner later on today with the NAACP, has the president been briefed?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: He has, and we did learn that from the press secretary, Karine Jean-Pierre, as the president was flying here to Detroit from Atlanta. She didn't offer any other details about the incident there, but I can tell you, Fredricka, everyone in the White House inside the State Department across the Biden administration will be watching this very, very closely.

[15:05:08]

Of course, details are quite scant and the United States does not have an official diplomatic relations with Iran, so it will be relying certainly on partners in Europe and elsewhere to ascertain what exactly has happened on the ground there.

But of course, this only lends more instability and more uncertainty to a world landscape that is already very uncertain for President Biden, of course, he is confronting the crisis in the Middle East. In fact, his National Security adviser, Jake Sullivan, is in Israel today to talk to the Israelis about a potential hostage deal that would result in a temporary ceasefire.

And you can imagine President Biden watching this and wondering what exactly this could a mean for a region that is already very much on the edge, of course, Iran has targeted American troops in the region through its proxies, it launched that barrage of missiles and drones toward Israel only a couple of weeks ago, President Biden's overarching sort of mission throughout all of this is to prevent the conflict from spiraling out-of-control and to avoid dragging the United States in closer to direct conflict with Iran.

There have been back-channel discussions between the US and Iran about that very topic, including reportedly just last week, but certainly now, President Biden watching this and wondering what exactly will happen next.

He is here in Detroit. We do expect him to speak at this dinner for the NAACP in a few hours from now. We saw him earlier at a cafe talking with some business owners. He has not commented on this topic just yet, and I think, you know, that's not by any surprise.

President Biden not wanting to say anything before the facts on the ground are ascertained because certainly how he responds, how the United States responds to this will be very closely watched not only in Iran, but around the world -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Right, and gathering intel from this situation is already going to be very difficult.

Thank you so much, Kevin.

Let's go to CNN pentagon correspondent, Oren Liebermann.

So, Oren, the US is monitoring this very closely.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, and that's because the US and the Biden administration have dealt with the government of Ebrahim Raisi over the course of the past several years, and they are very familiar with his hardline positions.

Remember, it was Raisi you see when he was inaugurated that beat Hassan Rouhani, his moderate predecessor, and moved the government of Iran more into sort of an anti-West, anti-US position. We have seen it align itself much more closely with Russia since the beginning of Ukraine war, and this is something the US and the Biden administration are very aware of.

But it even predates the Ukraine war when the administration was looking to restart the JCPOA to get some restrictions on Iran's nuclear program, Raisi came and he was inaugurated during that time and essentially pushed hard line positions in the negotiations and those negotiations fell apart.

We've got to keep in mind, of course, as Kevin pointed out, there are no direct relations between the US and Iran, so these were all done indirectly, all of these negotiations, and it was indirect negotiations back in September of 2023 that led Raisi's government and Iran to release five American hostages that the US designated as wrongfully detained.

In exchange, the US unfrozen $6 billion in Iranian assets, that in and of itself was viewed as a major breakthrough to be able to secure the release of those American hostages, but it hasn't led to some wider thawing of relations between the US and Iran.

Raisi, Iran's government is still considered very hard line. Raisi himself is very close to Iran's Supreme Leader, the Ayatollah Khamenei has even considered one of those that might be his successor. The US very much aware of all this and that's one of the other reasons you're seeing the US stay very quiet here as Kevin pointed out, as the government, and that's not just the White House, but also the State Department, the Pentagon trying to get a better handle on what exactly happened that led to this crash.

WHITFIELD: Oren Liebermann, thank you so much. Nic Robertson and Kevin Liptak, to all of you, appreciate it.

Coming up, President Biden is out on the campaign trail in Detroit after delivering a historic commencement address at Morehouse College. We will break down his appeal to Black voters.

Plus, National Security adviser, Jake Sullivan met with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu today, but has any progress been made for a potential ceasefire and the release of more Israeli hostages?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:14:07]

WHITFIELD: A very busy weekend on the campaign trail for both leading presidential candidates. New today, President Biden delivering the commencement address to graduates at Morehouse College in Atlanta, a Historically Black all-men's college.

He highlighted his administrations achievements while also addressing America's continued racial obstacles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Faith asks you to hold onto hope, to move heaven on earth, to make better days.

And last, my commitment to you, to show you democracy, democracy, democracy is still the way. A Black man that are being killed in the street, we bear witness. For me, that means to call out the poison of White supremacy, to root out systemic racism.

I stood up with George Floyd's family, to help create a country where you don't need to have that talk with your son or grandson as they get pulled over.

[15:15:08]

Instead of a trail of broken promises, we are investing more money than ever in Black families and Black communities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Arlette Saenz has more from Morehouse College in Atlanta. ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Fred, President Biden celebrated the next generation of Black leaders here at Morehouse College's commencement, but he also took time to acknowledge the concerns of many young people about his handling of the conflict in Gaza.

While the president spoke, several students took their chairs and turned them around, sitting with their backs towards the president in a sign of peaceful protest.

The school's valedictorian actually addressed the issue of Gaza head- on in his remarks, saying that there needs to be an immediate and permanent ceasefire in this conflict.

Now, President Biden also took time to acknowledge the concerns saying that he respects the right to peaceful protest, that these students need to make their voices heard and that he is hearing their concerns.

And he also tried to talk about what his administration has done to try to secure for a ceasefire deal in Gaza.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: What's happening in Gaza and Israel is heartbreaking. Hamas' vicious attack on Israel, killing innocent lives and holding people hostage.

Innocent Palestinians caught in the middle of all this: Men, women, and children killed or displaced and despite -- in desperate need of water, food, and medicine.

It's a humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

That's why I've called for an immediate ceasefire -- an immediate ceasefire to stop the fighting --

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: -- and bring the hostages home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, the president also, during his remarks said that he is working towards a two-state solution, a moment that drew applause from the crowd, including one of those students, at least who had turned their back to the president.

Now Biden also tried to use this speech to appeal to Black voters, a key part of his constituency back in 2020 and one that he is trying to rebuild support with amid signs of some erosion in support.

The president talked about efforts to try to fight back against White supremacy and racism in this country, while also calling out extremists actions, extremist views that have taken hold among some in the country.

The president tried to tout efforts that he has put in place to help Black Americans like lowering insulin costs, canceling student debt, but it is clear that the president was trying to keep the focus on the students this week with this commencement ceremony.

He now heading over to Detroit where he will speak at an NAACP dinner a little bit later this evening -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Arlette Saenz, thank you so much.

Meanwhile, former President Trump was in Dallas last night delivering a speech at the Annual NRA Convention. It was his ninth address to the organization. The former president said the rights of gun owners are "under siege."

Here is CNN's Steve Contorno.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: The National Rifle Association endorsed Donald Trump for president at their convention in Dallas on Saturday, but the former president said he needs more than the backing of gun owners in this election, he needs their votes.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've got to get gun owners to vote, because you know what? I don't know what it is, perhaps, it is a form of rebellion because you're a rebellious people, aren't you, but gun owners don't vote. What is that all about?

I've heard that. I heard it a few weeks ago that if the gun owners voted, we would swamp them at levels that nobody has ever seen before.

So I think you're a rebellious bunch, but let's be rebellious and vote this time, okay?

CONTORNO: Trump went onto boast that he "didn't move an inch on gun laws" when he was president and he has said that nation's gun owners have been "under siege" under President Joe Biden. He vowed to unravel all of Joe Biden's gun policies if he is elected to a second term and said he would also fire the ATF director, the nation's top gun regulator.

His appearance in Dallas drew a strong rebuke from the Biden campaign with this statement coming from Vice President Harris: "At a time when guns are the number one cause of death for children and teens in America, Donald Trump is catering to the gun lobby and threatening to make the crisis worse if re-elected.

It remains to be seen how much the NRA can assist Donald Trump this cycle. Eight years ago, they put upward of $30 million toward helping him defeat Hillary Clinton, but the organization has faced a number of crises in recent years, including scandals related to financial mismanagement that have threatened its relevancy and its coffers.

Steve Contorno, CNN, Dallas. (END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, for more in everything we've been seeing on the campaign trail, let's bring in former special assistant to President Biden and Meghan Hays; also with this former Republican Congressman and a senior adviser to the newly launched Our Republican Legacy Group, Charlie Dent.

Good to see both of you.

All right, Meghan, you first. President Biden has been working this weekend to secure support from Black voters. Do you think the message that he made at Morehouse -- he had several messages -- at Morehouse today struck the right chords?

[15:20:06]

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: I do. I think it was really well-received by the students, by the families, by the audience that was there, including alumni.

I think that he made his -- he is starting to make his case more known to folks and he is getting out there on the trail and we will see it again tonight at the NAACP event in Detroit, but I do think that his speech today at Morehouse was a great success for him, and I believe the folks at the White House do as well.

And Charlie, Biden is now in Michigan where he will speak at the NAACP dinner tonight. Can Biden win without a significant portion of Black voter support in November?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I am so --

WHITFIELD: I think our signal --

DENT: I am sorry, your audio broke up.

WHITFIELD: Okay. Well, can you hear me now? All right, it looks like were having a pretty poor signal issue. We will try to resolve that with Charlie Dent, but I wonder, Meghan, if I can ask you then, can President Biden win re-election without a significant portion of Black voter support?

HAYS: Look, I don't think he is in danger of losing a mass majority of Black support here. I think it is just shoring up his base. I think it is going -- and reminding folks what he has been doing for them for the last couple of years in office and what he will do for them moving forward.

So I don't think he is in fear of losing them. I think, these folks are going to come home at the end of the day. I think that they are making -- the young Black voters especially are making their voice known with protests and some other things with the Palestine and Israel conflict, which is well within their right, but they are going to come home to the Democratic Party.

History had told us that that's normally what happens, but I do think that he will be fine in November.

WHITFIELD: All right, so Meghan with Charlie gone, I need you to kind of look at both perspectives here. I wonder, in contrast, you know, we have former President Trump speaking at an NRA event this weekend and he is saying that the rights of gun owners are under siege.

So are gun-related issues, top of mind, front and center in this presidential election?

HAYS: That's interesting. I am not exactly sure. I don't necessary -- and the polling shows that that's not exactly what folks are caring about. It is the economy, it is abortion rights, it is -- you know, there is immigration are all top of mind for folks. I don't see that gun issues are in the top three or four issues that folks are voting on.

I think that when President Trump is going to the NRA, that's for his base. He is trying to get more confidence in his base. That's how it gets donations and donors. So I don't necessarily think it is in the top issues for America, I do think it is for the Republican Party that supports Donald Trump.

WHITFIELD: Is it your feeling the NRA is as influential today as it once was?

HAYS: No, I don't think so. I think that's the gun industry and not actually gun owners. I do actually think some of the things that he was railing about in his speech about the laws and they are trying to take our guns and issues and that the Second Amendment is under siege. I don't actually think that's what gun owners believe. I think that's what the gun industry is trying to put forth.

But again, I don't own a gun and I am not in the gun industry, so I can't speak totally to that, but that's more what I think is out there in America and not necessarily what actually is happening for actual gun owners.

WHITFIELD: Okay, and now looking forward in a different way, we are just five weeks now away from the first presidential debate right here at CNN between and Biden and former President Trump that both agreed this past week that it will happen.

And here's a reminder in case anybody forgot what it looked like between the two of them when they matched up in the 2020 race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: What do you want to call them? Give me a name. Give me a name?

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN HOST: White supremacists and White --

TRUMP: Go ahead. Who would you like me to condemn?

BIDEN: White extremists -- and the Proud Boys --

TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and standby, but I will tell you what, I will tell you what, somebody has got go do something about Antifa --

WALLACE: Will you pledge tonight that you will not declare victory until the election has been independently certified? President Trump, you go first.

TRUMP: I am urging my supporters to go in to the polls and watch very carefully, because that's what has to happen.

I'm the least racist person in this room.

BIDEN: Abraham Lincoln here is one of the most racist presidents we've had in modern history.

The question is -- the question is --

TRUMP: You want to put a lot of -- radical left --

BIDEN: Will you shut up, man?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, so Meghan and I understand that Charlie Dent will be joining us again, too. We've re-established our connection, but let me ask you, since you're just looking at that, too, do you think things will be different? I mean, there will be no audience this time in this CNN debate, microphones will be a cut off after the allotted answer time has expired.

What do you anticipate?

HAYS: I mean, I was at that debate in Cleveland and I remember it well. I mean, I hope that no one has COVID this time. I hope we are not in danger of that again, but I do hope that it is different.

I do hope that there is more civility. Unfortunately, I don't think that necessarily there is going to be, but I do think that they are trying to make that more of what the American people and voters can actually see a contrast between the two.

So I do think that not having an audience really helps that and I think cutting off microphones helps on both sides, so they can get their points across concisely and they can get to questions and answer the questions that are most pressing to voters.

WHITFIELD: Okay. All right, Charlie Dent, I understand you're back. Can you hear me now?

DENT: I can.

[15:25:08]

WHITFIELD: Okay. Good. All right, where do I begin? Let's try and catch up here.

All right, well, let's come off that debate scenario.

There remains acrimony between these two men, but how do you see the dynamic on the debate stage being any different this year?

DENT: Of course, there is acrimony between these two men. Donald Trump and Joe Biden, they are going to have these debates. I think the format is much better. These debates may actually make a difference in this election cycle as far as I am concerned, because voters' minds have largely been made up and there aren't that many persuadable voters.

So if the debate is going to matter, it may matter in this election. It is smart that they're happening this early. Both candidates are experiencing real problems with their bases right now.

Joe Biden is trying to shore up his support among African Americans where he is underperforming relative to 2020. And of course, Donald Trump has problems with those Nikki Haley voters, still voters, Republican voters are in primaries, are voting around 20 percent for Nikki Haley right now, and Donald Trump has really not done much to bring them into the fold, and it is clear to me that many Republican voters are looking for an alternative to Donald Trump and Joe Biden right now.

WHITFIELD: With Trump speaking at the NRA in Dallas, how influential is the NRA right now?

DENT: Not nearly as influential as they once were. They have been going through a lot of turmoil with Wayne LaPierre's departure, all the scandal, and the financial prices, the lawsuits, the judgments. The NRA is still going to be a force, I bet I think much less of a force in terms of money and we will see how much organization they can still do given the turmoil that has really ensnared the NRA, but they remain a powerful force.

Their power comes with their membership, frankly and so they're really good at reaching out to their members and telling their members who to vote for, and their members tend to follow direction pretty well. So they will still be a force, but not as much of a force because of all the other issues surrounding the scandal that plagued the organization.

WHITFIELD: All right. Charlie Dent, glad we were able to re-establish the connection. Meghan Hays, thank you so much for hanging in there as well. Appreciate you both.

DENT: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: We have more on our breaking news out of Iran. New details on the search and rescue operation for Iran's president who was onboard a helicopter when it went down earlier today. The latest straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:31:57]

WHITFIELD: We continue to follow breaking news at this hour. Iran's President Ebrahim Raisi was onboard a helicopter that went down in a remote part of the country, and we've just learned, Iranian officials say they have detected the exact location of the crash site and that crews are headed in that direction.

Let's get straight to Nic Robertson.

Nic, what do we know?

ROBERTSON: Yes, what the Iranian authorities are saying is that they picked up a signal from the helicopter and a mobile phone from one of the crew. They're not saying how strong those signals are, but they are saying it is enough for them to be able to say that they know where the crash site is.

This information is coming from the head of the IRGC, the elite military corps in Iran. In East Azerbaijan, the area where the helicopter went down in that province, right up in the northwest of Afghanistan.

So this is enough information, and they've got troops on the way there now. They are saying that they are hoping that there will be some good news. There is a phone signal and a signal from the helicopter, but they don't know on the well-being of all the passengers that might seem to indicate that some of this is sort of -- this location finding is happening at a technical level rather than people being on, let's say their helicopter radio system or that crew member actually using the phone, but we did have reports from the Iranian authorities before that they'd had a couple of communications with a crew member and a passenger onboard that president's helicopter.

So they've had those communications earlier. Now, they're saying that this is a signal from the helicopter and a mobile phone that's giving them the information where they need to send these troops to right now.

WHITFIELD: Okay, so the bad weather though, is still a complicating factor, Nic, even though they have the ping or of this technology getting to this crash site. It is still going to be a colossal obstacle, right?

ROBERTSON: It is and what the Iranians will be able to do is flood the area with a lot of troops, it may not be their specialty is to coordinate them particularly well, but they will have a lot of people at their disposal that they can get up now into this refined and we suspect, smaller search area, if you will.

But we also know that the Iranians have asked the Turkish authorities who have agreed to send them a helicopter night vision sort of search and rescue helicopter. It is sort of a bit surprising that the Iranians would not have available to search for their president, their own night vision helicopter search and rescue, but they've asked the Turkish who have much more modern army, if you will, have much more modern equipment than the Iranian military, and that is going to be brought into the situation, too.

So it does seem that incrementally, they are getting closer to that crash site, but the mystery still remains how big is the debris field? And how is the president? How is the foreign minister? What are their injuries? Have they survived thus far in these very cold conditions?

[15:35:15]

WHITFIELD: Right, and what brought that helicopter down?

All right, Nic Robertson, thank you so much.

I am also joined by Frida Ghitis, cnn.com contributor and global affairs columnist for "The Washington Post." Plus, CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Great to see all of you a join this conversation. So Colonel, you first, let's begin with the rugged weather conditions, the fog, all complicating a rescue effort. Iran's military, I remember Nic, you reporting earlier would also be a component in this search effort.

What do you know about the country's readiness for something like this?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Fredricka, it is very difficult for them to mount these kinds of operations. Now, they do have some experience handling earthquake search and rescue operations. They also have some other disaster relief operations under their belt, but crashed site, while they have had some experience with some recent crash disasters, they are not well-equipped, especially in remote areas to handle this kind of an event.

It is always a shock for a country to go through something like this, but in the Iranian case, sanctions have definitely made a difference, and as Nic was mentioning in his reporting, the Turkish military, is definitely providing needed equipment for this kind of a search operation and search and rescue operation in this case.

WHITFIELD: And Frida, I mean, could this potentially create a power vacuum in the country despite the supreme leader saying there will be no interruption in the government given this crash and the unanswered questions about what has happened and what is happening.

FRIDA GHITIS, CNN.COM CONTRIBUTOR AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COLUMNIST FOR "THE WASHINGTON POST": Yes, the comments from the supreme leader that there is going to be continuity, that everything is okay, there is stability in the government, that was -- it was part reassurance, part warning because we know that there has been a lot of unrest in Iran. It was just a year ago that we had huge protests that in fact it was Raisi who was one of the people who organized the crack down on them.

But the reality is that there is no real power vacuum. The power is the supreme leader and the president is really the number two in the government. In this particular case, President Raisi was a particularly strong president because of his closeness to the supreme leader and there was a lot of talk that he might be the successor to Khamenei who is old and is said to not be in the best of health.

So he was a particularly strong president for that reason, because of his closeness to the supreme leader. But this really injects a new source of potential instability in the region as a whole when there is so much else going on. We have this war between Israel and Hamas. We have Hezbollah, which is so close to Iran, engaged in regular, frequent clashes with Israel.

So it is a difficult and tense time in the Middle East and this potentially makes it even more tense.

WHITFIELD: And Colonel, it has been some nine hours Nic was reporting since the crash happened, what are your concerns about the elapse of time? Obviously, weather has hampered efforts. It is unclear whether weather had something to do with this accident in the first place since Iranian media reported that the conditions were pretty poor when this flight was happening.

What are your thoughts about how disadvantageous it is, nine hours now have elapsed and it is nightfall.

LEIGHTON: Yes, it is a real problem, Fredricka, because of one of the things that if there are survivors that they are going to have to deal with is hypothermia in mountainous conditions where it is very cold up there, it becomes really difficult to keep everybody warm. And if people are immobilized because of injuries that they've received in a crash like this, survival becomes a matter of finding them quickly and getting them the warmth that they need and the medical attention that they need.

And failing to locate the crash site in a timely fashion is going to limit their ability to provide that kind of first aid and necessary stabilization and medical stabilization to the passengers on this aircraft.

WHITFIELD: And Frida, I mean, the near immediacy and publicity of this crash is quite striking, is it not? I mean, for a country that often is very -- holds information very close to the vest, what does this mean in your view that even this would be publicized?

[15:40:17]

GHITIS: I think this information was going to get out and they wanted to control the flow of information. I think it is very interesting that the Iranian media, Iranian state media said early that the accident occurred because of bad weather and that is actually a good sign as far as containing this, keeping it from becoming part of a larger conflict because it wouldn't have been very surprising if Iran decided to blame somebody else for what happened.

There are multiple possible foes of Iran that could have been accused of making this happen. It is obvious that the weather is very bad, everybody can see it, but I thought it was very, very significant that state media said that early on that it was caused by weather, even though I suppose they could change the story, but that's what we have right now.

I think the government wants to control the flow of information. They want to prevent conspiracy theories and with so many moving parts here in the political scenario, I think it was important for them to get a handle on that.

Plus, you know, they have to -- they need to find this wreckage and they are mobilizing a very, very large number of people, so that would have made it harder, and they are mobilizing -- they are getting help from other countries, which would make it even harder to keep it secret.

WHITFIELD: All right, we will leave it there for now. Frida Ghitis, Colonel Cedric Leighton, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

We are also following the overnight airstrikes in Central Gaza that Palestinian health officials say killed at least 35 people.

Plus, the latest development for a potential ceasefire deal after National Security adviser Jake Sullivan meets with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:46:40]

WHITFIELD: All right, new today, National Security adviser Jake Sullivan meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Today's meeting follows talks between Sullivan and Saudi Arabian leaders yesterday.

The US is urgently trying to broker a deal that would lead to a ceasefire in Gaza and a return of Israeli hostages.

CNN's Scott McLean is following the developments from Istanbul.

Scott, Palestinian health officials say at least 35 people died in an airstrike in Central Gaza overnight. What can you tell us about that?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Fredricka, yes, when you're looking at the footage shot by our stringer on the ground there, it is frankly very hard to watch. Bystanders say that they heard one very big, very loud explosion that happened in the middle of the night, around 3:00 in the morning when everyone was sleeping and that explosion was big enough to essentially flatten most of five houses in that area.

As you mentioned, the latest number that we have from the hospital is 35 people killed. There may yet, the more though as bodies are recovered or as the injured, perhaps die, as well.

We also know that, look, people on site there, they don't have access to heavy equipment, they are searching with barely more than their hands, making the chances of finding anyone alive pretty remote.

We also have footage from the morgue showing the floor covered with bodies. Some are literally stacked on top of one another, and some are very clearly women and children.

Why Israel targeted this spot at this time, in particular, we don't know. We have reached out for comment. They didn't give any beyond insisting that they follow international law as they work to dismantle Hamas.

I should also mention very quickly, Fredricka, Jake Sullivan, as you said, has been meeting this weekend with the Saudis discussing a two- state solution, discussing the situation in Gaza.

We also know that he met with the Israeli side this weekend. We've got pictures of him meeting with the president, with the prime minister. Oddly enough, though we have not gotten information from either side on specifically what was discussed or what came out of those meetings.

The talks though between the Israelis and Hamas though are essentially stalled at this point, there is really no hope at least based on the latest information we know of any kind of breakthrough coming soon -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Scott McLean, thanks so much.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:53:43]

WHITFIELD: Cross-examination of former Trump attorney, Michael Cohen resumes tomorrow. The defense indicates that it will likely finish before the morning break. Two other potential witnesses to take the stand include a Federal Election Commission expert witness and Michael Cohen's former attorney, Bob Costello, who has repeatedly attacked Cohen's testimony under oath.

I am joined now by retired California superior court judge LaDoris Hazzard Cordell for more legal perspective.

Judge Cordell, great to see you.

So the jurors had a weekend to digest star witness, Michael Cohen's testimony and cross-examination challenging his credibility.

Is his testimony the lynchpin for conviction or acquittal?

LADORIS HAZZARD CORDELL, FORMER SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE: Well, Fredricka, thank you for having me on.

This trial so far is going to end shortly, really, there have been no surprises and including the testimony of all the witnesses. Everyone has expected Michael Cohen to say what he said and expected the cross- examination to be as it was.

The only surprise so far has been the good behavior of Donald Trump during the testimony of the witnesses and that surprise that may happen, and it would be a big surprise if he chooses to testify, he won't, but he has an absolute right not to testify because it is going to be his call.

[15:55:08] So everything is just -- I don't think anyone is surprised at all that how things are going. The key -- one of the keys is indeed, as you mentioned, the testimony of Michael Cohen, but there is much more to that.

There is the documentary evidence and it is about following the money and following the paper trail and hooking all of them that up with the testimony of the witnesses. That's what this case is really all about and what the jurors are going to have to consider.

WHITFIELD: All right, and now, while I have you, you know, as a retired California superior court judge, I've got to ask you about the US Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito's response to that upside down American flag flying outside his home, a possible nod to January 6 insurgents in the Stop the Steal mantra. He is blaming his wife.

Should Alito recuse himself from any January 6 related or presidential immunity case matters?

CORNELL: Well, of course, he should and he won't, but as you mentioned, this is -- it is astounding to me. It is open season on the wives, right? Alito blames Martha and Clarence blames Ginni, and actually Senator Menendez blames Nadine, isn't it? Right? Menendez blames Nadine and it is just open season. It is just blame the wives.

And I will tell you, thanks to -- if we are just talking about the Supreme Court, Alito and Clarence Thomas, the highest court in the land is ethically and morally fast becoming the lowest court in the land and indeed the courts favorability with the American public, the people it is supposed to serve is at an all-time low.

Yes, he should recuse himself, he will not because no one can make him, just as Clarence Thomas should recuse himself on these cases that deal with the insurrection.

It is very, very sad that this court is -- these justices are acting the way they are, but the big problem is there is no one yet to rein them in and the one person who could is Chief Justice Roberts and he has not stepped up. He is the chief to say to them, you need to stop doing in this. You need to recuse yourselves. He could, but we are all just waiting and right now, all we hear is silence.

WHITFIELD: All right, great to hear your voice, Judge LaDoris Hazzard Cordell. Thanks so much.

We will be right back.

CORDELL: Thank you, Fred.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:00:00]