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CNN International: ICC Seeks Arrest Warrants For Hamas & Israeli Leaders; Iran: President Raisi Dead After Helicopter Crash; Judge Expects Closing Arguments To Begin Next Week In Trump Hush Money Trial. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired May 20, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR": Well, hello. I'm Becky Anderson. We've got two major breaking news stories this hour, rooted in the Middle East with major regional implications. I'll have the latest on the possibility of arrest warrants against Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu and the Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar on war crimes charges, and worldwide reaction to the death of the Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi in a helicopter crash.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York, where it is a critical day in the Donald Trump hush money trial. The cross-examination continues of star witness Michael Cohen, Trump's former fixer, who a short time ago admitted on the stand to stealing from the Trump Organization. This is CNN Newsroom.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

ANDERSON: We're hearing strong objections from both Israel and Hamas after getting word that the International Criminal Court could take action over the war in Gaza. Well, the court seeking arrest warrants against Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and others on charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity. Here is what the ICC Chief Prosecutor Karim Khan told CNN's Christiane Amanpour in an exclusive interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: We're hear at the ICC, you are today announcing that you are applying for arrest warrants for top military and political leadership in the Israel-Gaza war since the October 7 events. First and foremost, explain to me exactly what you're asking for and who you are charging.

KARIM KHAN, CHIEF PROSECUTOR, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT: Today, Christiane, we've applied for warrants to the pretrial chamber of the International Criminal Court in relation to three individuals that are Hamas members, Sinwar, who is in charge on the ground.

AMANPOUR: That's Yahya Sinwar?

KHAN: Absolutely. Deif, who is in charge of the Al Qassam Brigade, and Haniyeh, who is one of their political bureau based in Doha.

AMANPOUR: What are the charges?

KHAN: The charges are extermination, murder, taking hostages, rape and sexual assault in detention. So, these are the key crimes that are alleged to have been committed by these three individuals. The world was shocked on October 7 when people were ripped from their bedrooms, from their homes, from the different kibbutzim in Israel. And people have suffered enormously, and we have a variety of evidence to support the applications that we've submitted to the judges.

AMANPOUR: You have also issued warrants against the top political and military leadership of the government of the state of Israel.

KHAN: We've applied for warrants. Of course, the judges must determine whether or not to issue them, but we've applied today -- will apply for warrants for Prime Minister Netanyahu and also Minister of Defense Gallant for crimes of causing extermination, causing starvation as a method of war, including the denial of humanitarian relief supplies, deliberately targeting civilians in conflict.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Christiane joining us now live from The Hague. Christiane, the chief prosecutor will have anticipated a very critical response to his decision, and I know that you discussed that with him. What else did he tell you?

AMANPOUR: Well, look, there was bound to be a furious backlash by the parties involved, and certainly that is emanating from Israel and from some of its American allies, also from Hamas. There is a range of responses from Israel, including from the Prime Minister, who is target and subject of one of these sought arrest warrants, saying that, this will not deter us. We will continue to fight to destroy Hamas and to bring back our hostages. There has been anger at what they see as an equivalence, putting both parties in the same set of requests for these warrants. But, that's come from Hamas as well.

And there is a general sense that this is something that shouldn't have happened. But, that is completely likely to be the response from those who are targeted in situations like this. I've covered enough war crimes trials and tribunals and arrest warrants in the past to understand a little bit of the process, and when I put it specifically to prosecutor Karim Khan, that he would likely get the most backlash from Israel and its benefactors and supporters.

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Prime Minister Netanyahu had originally said that any such targeting would amount to antisemitism, a hate crime, a travesty of justice, things like that. He said nothing could be further from the truth. And let me just read to you. "I want to underline the fact that the allegations of antisemitism, the idea that by applying the law blindly were favoring one side or persecuting or being hostile to another side, nothing can be further from the truth." And he went on to say how he had gathered a panel of independent

experts, which are very diverse, all the people in the -- and are world renowned for their human rights law experience, and including the real august (ph) Judge Ted Meron -- Theodor Meron, who used to be head of the ICC, and before that, decades ago, was an advisor to the Israeli Foreign Minister in the time around the 1967 war when settlements became an issue, and he actually did advise the government that these settlements and the continuing holding of the settlements violated the Fourth Geneva Conventions. But, all to say that he is a Holocaust survivor, and he is on this panel that advised Karim Khan.

And the point being that Karim Khan has said that he would not have brought these -- this request for these applications for these individuals, either Israeli or from Hamas, if he didn't believe that the evidence was enough to stand up, not just in court, but to deliver convictions, that's very high bar. And so, he is convinced that the evidence supports that.

ANDERSON: What happens next?

AMANPOUR: Well, next is the actual word from the pretrial panel of judges, because these are now -- now that he has released this statement, he has given us this interview describing what he wants, this is now before the panel of pretrial judges, and they will either agree or not agree with his independent panel and with his assessment and his legal team's assessment that these arrest warrants should be forthcoming. If they are agreed to, then they go into effect. But, the real question is, because the ICC does not have law enforcement or apprehending capability, it is up to, in this case, the parties themselves to do that.

And again, Israel is a democratic state with an independent judiciary and law enforcement body, obviously, and it could. And he said that if indeed Israeli institutions decide to take this up, then the case would be in their hands. The situation is very different with Hamas because it is very differently organized. It's described as a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States, Europe and others. And as you know, the two top leaders anyway, the military leaders, are believed to be somewhere underground, in tunnels, as this war continues.

So, there is that issue. And this is also the first time that leaders of a democratic nation such as Israel have come under an ICC target, if you like, in terms of trying to get arrest warrants for these charges. And this is going to, he said, prove to the world that both by sending out these requests for arrest warrants for both sides, that justice must be blind, and that if we allow these -- this evidence to go unpunished or unheld, unaccountable, then, in his words, it really does help to destroy our species. I mean, that's basically what he said. There is so much at stake here.

And remember, this is the same prosecutor who issued actual arrest warrants in 2023 against President Putin and his henchwomen in the illegal abduction of Ukrainian children from areas that Russians had occupied inside Ukraine and taken them back into Ukraine, and very few of them, if any, well, some of them have, but very few of them have been released to their parents.

ANDERSON: Good to have you, Christiane. Thank you, and Christiane's exclusive reporting from The Hague. You can see in that full interview with the chief prosecutor on her show at 1 p.m. Eastern time.

Let's get the view then, starting -- and response to these -- this news. Jeremy Diamond joins me from Jerusalem. What has been the very specific response from the Prime Minister -- the Israeli Prime Minister and other officials in Israel?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, across the Israeli political spectrum, there is a rejection of this latest move by the International Criminal Court. Anger being expressed at what they view as a moral equivalency that's being drawn by seeking these arrest warrants against Hamas leaders as well as against Israeli leaders at the same time, in the same breath effectively.

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The Israeli Prime Minister, for his part, does not seem daunted or deterred by the ICC seeking these arrest warrants, saying in a meeting of his Likud party, the application for warrants from The Hague is a political outrage. He says they will not deter us, and we will continue in the war until the hostages are released and Hamas is destroyed. We have also heard from the Israeli Prime Minister's top political rival, Benny Gantz, a member of the Israeli war cabinet, expressing outrage at that equivalence between Israeli and Hamas' leaders.

Hamas is also striking out against these -- this decision by the ICC, no surprise there, of course, but also notably talking about this equivalence, saying Hamas strongly condemns the attempts of the ICC prosecutor to equate victims with aggressors by issuing arrest warrants against the number of Palestinian resistance leaders without legal basis.

We should note that the ICC prosecutor did not make this decision lightly. And clearly, it was the result of months of investigatory work, including his own work on the ground as he visited the kibbutzs that were attacked on October 7, met with survivors and victims of those attacks, as he lays out the charges of crimes against humanity, of violations of humanitarian law against three Hamas leaders, Yahya Sinwar, Mohammed Deif as well as Ismail Haniyeh.

And then there is also interviews with survivors and eyewitnesses, authenticated video, satellite imagery, all pulled together to pull together the picture of the violations, similarly of war crimes and crimes against humanity against these two Israeli leaders, focusing in particular on the starvation of civilians as a method of warfare. And Karim Khan actually notes in this statement that he is leveling these charges after months of warnings to Israeli leaders to allow the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza, warning very specifically that not doing so could be a violation of international law. And now, of course, he is carrying forward with his decision to seek arrest warrants in these cases.

ANDERSON: Good to have you. Thank you.

I want to get you to the White House and to our correspondent now, Arlette Saenz, who joins me from there with perspective, not just from the White House but U.S. official perspective on this decision by the chief prosecutor to seek arrest warrants, they haven't been issued yet, but to seek arrest warrants, which throws out the possibility that Hamas leadership, both military and political, and Israeli political leadership could be presented with arrest warrants for crimes against humanity, Arlette.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, so far, Becky, U.S. officials have not offered a reaction yet to this news from the ICC prosecutor that they would seek arrest warrants of top Hamas and Israeli leadership. But, there has been strong opposition from the U.S. to the fact that the ICC was conducting such an investigation. You have heard of spokespeople here at the White House and at the State Department really blast the fact that they were conducting an investigation, arguing that the ICC doesn't have jurisdiction in this case, that Israel is not party to the ICC, and Hamas and the Palestinians don't make up a state, so they don't have jurisdiction there as well.

But, we are waiting to see exactly what the White House will say. We expect that it would be a very strong and forceful response against this decision. We have started to hear from Republican lawmakers up on Capitol Hill who are blasting the decision, for instance, the top Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Jim Risch. Senator Jim Risch has called it absurd, and said that what the ICC is doing is creating a false moral equivalency between Hamas and Israel.

But, going forward, there will be big questions, not just how the U.S. might criticize this decision, but whether they decide to take any actions in response. Republican senators, weeks ago, sent a letter to the ICC, warning that the U.S. could potentially issue sanctions on the ICC if they move forward with issuing warrants for these Israeli officials. There had been sanctions in place on the ICC during the Trump administration. That is something that the Biden administration had reversed. So, all eyes will be on whether the U.S. actually will move forward with any type of tangible response to this decision.

Now, I'll also note that it's noteworthy that National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan is actually in Israel right now. He met yesterday with Netanyahu, he met today with the country's Defense Minister, both men who could potentially face these warrants.

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And it comes at a time when the U.S. has still been trying to press Israel to take greater care, trying to warn them against a massive operation on the ground in Rafah unless they have a credible plan in place to evacuate those civilians. So far, the White House has said that they haven't seen such a plan, and they've been trying to send these warning signs to Israel. But, this all -- could also have major political implications for Biden, as well as you have many here in the U.S. who are still frustrated with his response, frustrated with his handling of the conflict between Israel and Gaza, as there has been such a large civilian death toll. But, we'll see what the White House has to say a bit later today, specifically on this issue of the ICC.

ANDERSON: Arlette, good to have you. Thank you. Arlette Saenz is at the White House.

Well, inside Gaza, the Israeli military has intensified its attacks in recent days. Hospital officials there say at least 35 were killed on Sunday in an airstrike that hit a refugee camp in central Gaza. The IDF says two senior Hamas operatives were among those killed in the weekend strikes. Gaza's Health Ministry is reporting the highest daily death toll since mid-April. It says 106 people were killed in military operations within 24 hours. And this comes as the United Nations says the number of people displaced from Rafah in southern Gaza has risen to more than 800,000, after Israeli forces started expanding its aerial strikes into ground attacks in the area.

Let me get you the very latest on the developing news out of Iran today, and Iran's acting President Mohammad Mokhber has held an extraordinary meeting with the heads of the country's legislative and judicial branches following the death of President Ebrahim Raisi in a helicopter crash. The country's Foreign Minister and seven others were also killed. Iranian media report the aircraft went down in heavy fog in a remote mountainous area of East Azerbaijan province. Iran has announced five days of mourning.

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Well, the deaths of President Raisi and his Foreign Minister come at a tense moment in Iran and around the wider region. Just a few weeks ago, Iran launched a missile and drone attack in -- on Israel in response to a suspected IDF airstrike in Damascus, Syria. And at home, President Raisi led a crackdown on dissent after protests against clerical rule. Well, the deaths and this gap in Iranian leadership have brought the expected regional reaction.

CNN's Ben Wedeman joins us now with some of that. Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. What we're seeing is an expected outpouring of condolences from various countries, but some of them, for instance, Saudi Arabia, until March 2023, had very rocky relations with Tehran. But, after China negotiated or brokered a reestablishment of ties, we've seen a ties between Riyadh and Tehran get ever closer. So, Saudi Arabia was one of the first to come out to express their condolences on the death of President Raisi. In addition, we're seeing that Pakistan, India, the UAE and others doing the same.

Now, Lebanon, which has close ties with Iran, officially, has come out in declared three days of mourning. Hezbollah has come out and described Raisi as a big brother lost to that group. The Houthis and Hamas have also expressed their condolences. It's important to keep in mind that Iran may not be the favorite country in the region. Many of its neighbors are worried about its ambitions. But, there is a feeling that the political structure in Iran, which has basically remained intact for the last 45 years, despite intense external and internal pressures, the system has held fairly well, certainly if you compare it with the other countries in the neighborhood. So, the feeling is that even though this was a shock, a very

unexpected event, and leaves a rather large hole near the top of the pinnacle of leadership in Iran, fundamentally, the country remains on course. Becky.

ANDERSON: Good to have you, Ben. Thank you.

Well, world leaders, top officials voicing condolences, amongst them, as we've been discussing, Russia, China, Japan, Kenya, South Africa and the United Nations Secretary General.

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As a black sash covers President Raisi's empty government seat, there are also expressions of sympathy from the West, including France's foreign ministry, and the EU's foreign policy chief. We will follow any updates on this story. And in a few minutes, I'll talk with the director of the Iran program at the Middle East Institute to get some perspective on significance and consequences of the news of the death of the Iranian President and indeed his Foreign Minister as well as others in a delegation.

Coming up after the break, Rahel is in New York where that Donald Trump hush money trial resumes with more cross-examination of the former President's former fixer, Michael Cohen. We will have the very latest from the courthouse, up next.

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SOLOMON: Welcome back. With Michael Cohen back on the stand, it appears that we are in the homestretch of Donald Trump's hush money trial. Judge Juan Merchan announced a short time ago that he expects closing arguments to begin next Tuesday. That's a bit longer than previously anticipated. Right now, defense attorneys are cross- examining Trump's former fixer and personal attorney. Cohen is the prosecution's star witness. He is also the last one they plan to call before resting their case.

Let's get to our Senior Crime and Justice Reporter Katelyn Polantz, who is following this all from Washington. So, Katelyn, beyond this new timeline for closing argument, what more took place this morning?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Rahel, there is still some very intense questioning of Michael Cohen going on in the witness box in that courtroom in Manhattan. Todd Blanche is hammering at him, specifically about how Michael Cohen was financially benefiting from his work for Donald Trump, his relationship to the Trump Org., and to Donald Trump as he was ascending into the presidency, making money, lobbying, having clients that Donald Trump didn't even know about.

And Rahel, something that came out this morning that was quite notable is this exchange where Todd Blanche asked Michael Cohen directly if he stole from the Trump Organization. And Michael Cohen responded, yes, sir. That was in relation to a situation where Michael Cohen was paying off a debt to a tech company and was getting reimbursed by the Trump Organization for it. He ultimately ended up paying less to the tech company than he was reimbursed for. So, he got to pocket some extra from the Trump Organization.

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But, that's one of those moments today that has highlighted how the defense team is trying to set up what their closing arguments will be around Michael Cohen, trying to highlight to the jury that he is an untrustworthy character operating aside from what Donald Trump knew he was doing, and that he is a liar over and over and over again.

SOLOMON: Yeah. And it's interesting, because Michael Cohen said he did tell the prosecutors about this, but it is an interesting and stunning development, nonetheless, Katelyn. Give me a sense of, is it clear yet whether defense stands to call on any witnesses of their own? I mean, there was even a question about whether Donald Trump himself might testify. Have they given us any sense of what their plans are?

POLANTZ: The question of Trump testifying is still out there. A lot of people think that it would be very unlikely for the former President to take the stand in this case. We'll set that aside because we won't know until the moment arrives whether they're going to call him or not. But, there is the possibility for the defense team to call a couple of different people. They're asking questions about another attorney that has long been in the Trump group or around him talking to Michael Cohen, an attorney named Robert Costello. They are asking questions of Michael Cohen about his interactions with Robert Costello right now. So, there is always the possibility that he could be called as a defense witness.

And then this morning, the judge worked out some of the details for the defense team about them calling an expert on campaign finance and the Federal Elections Commission. We will see if they call that expert as well. That's not a fact witness. It would be someone to explain a little bit about campaign finance. But, the judge noted there are limits to what that expert would be able to do. And they -- that person couldn't give an opinion on whether Donald Trump is violating the law in this case. Rahel.

SOLOMON: Yeah. The judge saying that it might in fact confuse the jury. Katelyn Polantz, our senior crime and justice reporter, thank you. We're going to have a little bit more from the trial and analysis a little later in the show, in about 10 minutes or so.

But, after a short break, the International Criminal Court seeking arrest warrants for top leaders over the war in Gaza. But, just how much power and just how much reach does the ICC have? We'll take a look after the break.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

ANDERSON: And we continue to follow breaking news from the International Criminal Court. In an exclusive interview with CNN, the ICC chief prosecutor tells my colleague Christiane Amanpour that he is requesting arrest warrants for three leaders of Hamas, including the Gaza leader Yaya Sinwar, for the deadly attacks of October 7.

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The ICC also wants to charge Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as well as his Defense Minister Yoav Gallant over war crimes allegedly committed during the war in Gaza. While Israel is not a member of the ICC, the court claims to have jurisdiction over Gaza, East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

CNN's Nic Robertson breaks down the scope of the court's power and it's somewhat limited reach.

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NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Russia's ruthless Vladimir Putin. Sudan's former dictator Omar al- Bashir, the now dead Libyan tyrant Muammar Gaddafi, leaders who claimed innocence but with blood on their hands had arrest warrants issued by the ICC, the International Criminal Court, set up in 2002, a court of last resort located in The Hague, the Netherlands, established to hold to account individuals accused of some of the most heinous crimes, genocide, crimes against humanity, crimes of aggression and war crimes. The first verdict came in 2012 against Thomas Lubanga --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The charges of conscripting and enlisting children.

ROEBRTSON: -- former leader of a militia in the Democratic Republic of Congo, convicted of war crimes for using child soldiers, and sentenced to 14 years in prison. But, the ICC's reach is limited. So far, neither Putin nor Bashir delivered to The Hague.

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As far as America is concerned, the ICC has no jurisdiction, no legitimacy, and no authority.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Its jurisdiction isn't limited to the near 125 countries that are signatories to the Rome Statute that establishes it, but non-signatories like the US, China, India, Russia, are not obliged to turn over alleged criminals.

KHAN: I've performed my duties.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): The current chief prosecutor, British lawyer Karim Khan, appears proactive in his attentions, making an unannounced visit to the Rafah crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip, not long after Israeli troops began their months-long deadly Gaza offensive.

KHAN: I want to underline clearly to Israel that there must be discernible efforts without further delay to make sure civilians receive basic food, medicine.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): In November, he followed up with a visit to Israel, including sites ravaged by Hamas during their brutal October 7 attack, followed by the occupied West Bank. He had a warning, comply with the law, or my office will act. It appears Khan's biggest challenge, as his predecessors found, not legal but physical. Putin, the embodiment of that, still at large, still President.

Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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ANDERSON: Islamic prayers between news broadcasts and five days of mourning have been declared by the supreme leader Ayatollah Khamenei. Officials in Tehran said President Ebrahim Raisi and several others, including Iran's Foreign Minister, were killed when their helicopter crashed in the mountains on Sunday. Mr. Raisi was the second most powerful person in the Islamic Republic after Ayatollah. Iran's First Vice President, is now acting President, and the man who led the Iranian negotiations over nuclear issues and prisoner exchanges has been appointed acting Foreign Minister.

Well, joining us now with his expert analysis is Alex Vatanka, the Director of the Iran Program at the Middle East Institute in Washington, D.C. And what are the consequences of the news of the death of both the President and indeed the Foreign Minister? How do you read what happens next?

ALEX VATANKA, DIRECTOR OF IRAN PROGRAM, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: I think in the short term, Becky, we shouldn't expect any major policy changes, both domestic or in terms of what Iran does in the region and in terms of its foreign policy. Ebrahim Raisi and Hossein Amir- Abdollahian, both of them essentially were loyal members of this regime from the moment they became involved in politics, in the case of Raisi, going back to 1980. They didn't stay in this regime for as long as they did because they had grand visions in terms of politics, policy and so forth, just because they were servants of people, essentially who were asking them to do certain things.

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In the case of Raisi, clearly Ali Khamenei had him groomed, going back a decade, created conditions for him to rise to the presidency. But, it's important to remember, Raisi always did what Khamenei asked him to do, and that's why I believe continuity is what we can expect going forward.

But, I have to say one other thing, Becky, and that says, there is a lot of infighting among the hardliners in Tehran, and Raisi was from one faction among the hardliners. I anticipate the fight among hardliners in Tehran to pick up going forward, and that might be very interesting to watch out for.

ANDERSON: Do you expect the election of a new President, which must happen within 50 days according to the Constitution, will be a contested election? And is there a possibility that there will be the opportunity, at least, for someone from the more reformist camp to actually play a role in that election? VATANKA: Well, that is Ali Khamenei's call. In Iranian system, the supreme leader, who controls the Guardian Council, the 12-member body that decides who can run for office in that country, it is Ali Khamenei's call. He can open up the race for people like reformists and moderates. I mean, most notably, we remember that folks like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or Hassan Rouhani, who at one point served as President no longer and the good graces of the supreme leader. So, that's Ali Khamenei's call. I doubt it. I think Khamenei wants to consolidate. He does want to open up the race to reformists, the moderates. He is very much conscious that he is 85, and he wants to pass on the flag, the baton to someone he trusts fully.

ANDERSON: Raisi's death, of course, does pose significant challenges for the ruling order in Iran, not least many will say, and I wonder whether you agree with this, it changes the scenario for not just the way that the country is governed today and going forward under the auspices of the President of the country, but that is not the most important role, of course. That is not the most important individual in Iran. The most important individual, of course, is the supreme leader, and the apparatus, the security apparatus around him. This is an 85-year-old who has been in poor health and Raisi, to many, was a candidate for succession. He is now no longer here. So, what happens next going forward and in the longer term, do you believe?

VATANKA: Look, the issue of the succession is something we've been wrestling with for many years now. As you pointed out, Becky, Khamenei is 85-years-old. He is someone who is notorious for being a micromanager, very jealous of the political power that he has. For example, his predecessor Ayatollah Khomeini, nominated a deputy supreme leader in case he passed away. Khamenei has refused to have a deputy. He doesn't want anybody else to sort of share the limelight with him. So, we're sitting here and speculating.

You're right. Raisi was on the shortlist, certainly, in recent months and years. The other person that often Khamenei is mentioned is Khamenei's son Mojtaba Khamenei. I can't tell you who is going to be the next supreme leader. But, I don't think it's going to be a decision made by one individual alone. There needs to be some kind of a consensus in the regime to see if they can agree on one person to carry this regime forward.

ANDERSON: This is, of course, a regime whose credibility, legitimacy continues to be questioned. The projection of power both internally and externally, as you rightly point out, will be very important to the leadership at this point.

So, I finally leave you with, and if you can be brief with this, you've said you don't see this changing guard having a huge impact, either domestically or with regard to foreign policy and therefore internationally and in the wider region. And so -- but, just on that domestic file very specifically, we have seen over the last 18 months the emergence of a protest movement. There will be many people who, as they watch images on their own television screens in Iran of the morning, this is a five-day mourning period, and Iranian prayers -- Islamic prayers being said, there'll be many people who will not be mourning the loss of Ebrahim Raisi. [11:40:00]

Does this provide an opportunity, and is there an opportunistic Iranian population there internally, domestically who might take advantage of this moment?

VATANKA: Right. Look, I have to say, we can expect the next few days the Iranian state-run media to tell us that Raisi is deeply, more than missed by the Iranian population. As someone who has been watching Iran for the last 25 years, I don't see any evidence that is going to be missed. That's a long different story.

But, to your point in terms of the angry Iranian public opinion, absolutely, it's there. Is this a moment for them to come out? Is this a moment for him to mobilize against the regime? I think it requires some sort of a leadership. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist for the opposition. I don't think this is the moment for the opposition to come on the streets. But, that angry Iranian sentiment is not going to go anywhere, whether it comes out this week or next week or next month, remains to be seen, but it's not going anywhere because the regime's policies are not changing for the better.

ANDERSON: Alex, good to have you. Alex Vatanka is the --

VATANKA: Thank you, Becky.

ANDERSON: -- is our guest this hour. Thank you.

Well, after the break, we return to New York on a critical day in the Donald Trump hush money trial. High-profile witness Michael Cohen back on the stand, and some of what we heard today, more than newsworthy. More on that, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLOMON: Welcome back. And more now on Donald Trump's hush money trial. The former President's attorneys are once again trying to poke holes in Michael Cohen's credibility, and they may have scored a direct hit today when Cohen admitted on the stand to stealing from the Trump Organization.

CNN's Senior Crime and Justice Reporter Katelyn Polantz joins us now. So, Katelyn, court is now back from that break. But, the defense just before the break seemed to be asking Cohen a lot of questions about whether there is some sort of TV show about his life. Katelyn, your sense of what the importance of that is.

POLANTZ: Rahel, it's all Michael Cohen on open book at the moment, because the defense team wants to show to the jury how much Michael Cohen has benefited by being this person opposite Donald Trump. So, after he leaves the Trump Org., at the end of the Trump presidency after Trump leaves office, it's been quite lucrative for Michael Cohen. And Michael Cohen is testifying to that. Now, he is saying, yes, he negotiated a TV show where he was helping to pitch a TV show called "The Fixer" based on his life. He thought about running for Congress. He was working on the show. He is considering a third book deal. And then on top of all of that, he has made $4.4 million from books he has written and podcasts he has hosted since late 2020.

[11:45:00]

All of this comes together very likely for those closing arguments that are expected as early as next Tuesday, Rahel, because that is when the defense team will be able to highlight all of this money that Michael Cohen has made being the guy opposite Donald Trump in the courtroom and in public as well.

SOLOMON: Well, Katelyn, I mean, speaking of money that Cohen has made, I mean, he did admit to this morning to stealing from the Trump Organization. Talk to us about how this went down in the courtroom. I mean, what was Trump's reaction to this, and how this, the defense hopes, at least, bolsters their case that they're trying to make that the jurors simply can't trust Cohen?

POLANTZ: Yeah. It does speak to how the defense team is trying to sow those pieces of doubt throughout this cross-examination that's now around eight hours of Michael Cohen on the stand over the course of multiple days. Whenever that discussion did come up, the question and answer about Michael Cohen stealing, he was asked, did you steal from the Trump Organization, based on an expected reimbursement he basically was tape pocketing money that he was being reimbursed for the Trump Organization to pay a tech company and ended up not paying the tech company as much as he told the Trump Organization? Michael Cohen did say yes to that question, did you steal? So, that is one of the things that could come back to haunt as well in closing arguments as they arise next week.

But, it is just part of this more broad portrait that the defense is trying to make, as they question Michael Cohen about every single thing that they can find related to the money he was able to take and how much of that was at the direction of Donald Trump or because Michael Cohen was splitting from Donald Trump in some way.

SOLOMON: Yeah. Really fascinating and riveting stuff. Katelyn Polantz live from Washington. Katelyn, thank you.

All right. Also with us now is Tim Heaphy. He is the former lead investigator on the January 6 Committee. He is also a former federal prosecutor. Tim, good to have you today. Welcome.

TIM HEAPHY, FORMER LEAD INVESTIGATOR, JANUARY 6TH COMMITTEE, & FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Thank you. Good to be here.

SOLOMON: So, let me start with this admission from Michael Cohen. I mean, how damning is that to the prosecution's case? Michael Cohen admitting on stand that, yeah, essentially, he did steal from the Trump Organization.

HEAPHY: Yeah. Hard to tell. Right? It's notoriously difficult to tell how jurors perceive a particular piece of evidence. There is no question that the government, that the district attorney was aware of that and other bad facts that the defense has elicited from Michael Cohen. They believed that there was a net positive in presenting him as a witness despite that baggage. So, it's hard to tell if the cross- examination will undercut Cohen's credibility entirely, because the prosecutor obviously presented a lot of corroboration that even suggests even if they don't like Mr. Cohen, they may find that he is telling the truth.

SOLOMON: Yeah. And I mean, to that point, I mean, there has been a lot of speculation and pontificating from legal analysts about whether this case completely rests on the credibility of Michael Cohen or whether there was enough corroborating evidence. What say you, Tim?

HEAPHY: Yeah. It's hard to say again. Look, you never, as a prosecutor, want to rest your entire case on any one witness. The whole ballgame, when you call a co-conspirator, someone who has criminal exposure for the charge defense, is to build around that witness a wall of corroboration. That's why you heard from David Pecker. That's why you heard from Stormy Daniels. That's why you're seeing text messages in these audio recordings. The prosecutor wants to argue to this jury, look, Michael Cohen has done some despicable things. He is a convicted liar, but you can count on his testimony because it is consistent with all of that other evidence. I will never predict what a jury will find. It's impossible to know. But, none of this is a surprise to the district attorney. They certainly knew what they were getting when they called Michael Cohen.

SOLOMON: And let's stick with the jury. There was some question this morning from the defense team, about the judge's jury instructions, specifically on campaign finance issues. Jury instructions sort of feels like a routine part of trial. But, jury instructions can also be really critical. What do you think? Explain this for us.

HEAPHY: Yeah. Yeah. They're absolutely critical. So, the judge -- one of the roles of the judge is to define the crime that's at issue, and sometimes there are some dispute about how to specifically define that crime. Here you have the falsification of business records in support of an underlying crime. So, how the judge defines an underlying crime will be crucial.

The other really important consideration for the judge is whether to give what's called a lesser included offense instruction, and that is tricky for both the defendant and the government.

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The judge could decide, even if there isn't an underlying felony, if there is intentional falsification of business records, that's a lesser included but a misdemeanor, not a felony. So, the decision as to whether either side asks for that or the judge on his own decides to give that could have a real, direct impact on what the jury has before it when ultimately deliberates.

SOLOMON: Yeah. That's really fascinating. And really quickly before I let you go, is it clear to you going into closing arguments next week, which side is going into this with clear momentum?

HEAPHY: No. It's not clear. It's never clear. So, the defense has an opportunity to present its case. They may not. They don't have the burden of presenting anything. The burden of proof rests with the government. Even if the defense presents a case, the prosecutor may have rebuttal evidence. So, there is more evidentiary showings potentially to be had. But, again, for the prosecutor, they have the burden of proof, a very high standard in American courts. They were aware of all of the problems with the case before they brought the case. Nonetheless, I believe they likely feel pretty good about their chances going into closing arguments.

SOLOMON: Yeah. And the jury will decide. We shall soon see. Former federal --

HEAPHY: Yes.

SOLOMON: -- prosecutor Tim Heaphy, good to have your insights and perspective today. Thank you.

HEAPHY: Thank you.

SOLOMON: All right. Under Ebrahim Raisi, Iran ramped up its nuclear program and clamped down on protests with deadly force, and his sudden death now leaves questions about the country's future. We're going to have some final thoughts from Becky Anderson, straight ahead.

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SOLOMON: Welcome back. And this morning, questions remain about whether the death of Iran's leader now opens a power vacuum in the country. Right now, the country is under huge political and economic pressure, in particular, with international economic sanctions, festering discontent among its people, and its fraught relationship with Israel.

Becky, back with me. Becky, good to have you this hour. As someone who covers the region so closely, now with 50 days until the elections, I'm curious what you're watching over the next few weeks. Is there any chance based on the conversations you've had that the next leader will not be someone who resembles Raisi in terms of those hardline policies?

ANDERSON: Well, that decision lies in the hands of the supreme leader and the sort of infrastructure that will be behind the running of this election are going forward. You're right to point out there has to be an election within the next 50 days. That is what the Constitution there says. And remember that President Ebrahim Raisi was elected on some 40 percent turnout for the election back in 2021. This government's credibility and legitimacy has been in question for some time.

So, those I've spoken to in the past and specifically over the last 24 hours, as this opportunity exists now for new leadership, have said that there is a question there. This is an opportunity for the ultimate leadership that being the supreme leader to ensure that either there is a course correction at this point opening this presidential election for a real contest. Does that mean ensuring that there are more than just hardliners and that group is shrinking as it were by the day?

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And that is the group that Ebrahim Raisi came from. Does the supreme to ensure that there is more of a contest, the introduction of more familiar fingers, Hassan Rouhani, a two-time president of Iran, more of what we would consider outside Iran as a reformer, is that an opportunity to see more candidates appearing and being allowed to contest this election? That is and would be seen as the opportunity taken for a course correction. Or does the supreme leader and the infrastructure around him double down and ensure that the governance of this country continues to be in the hands of somebody from that very much more hardline group of leadership? That is a question which is not clear at present. It is not clear what decision will be taken.

What is clear, and let's remember this, that the President, who has lost his life alongside his Foreign Minister, are not the two most powerful men -- individuals in the country. It is the supreme leader and the security infrastructure around him and whatever decision they make will necessarily provide the course for this country going forward. Rahel.

SOLOMON: Yeah. That's extremely important context there. Becky Anderson, so great to have you this hour. Thank you.

I'm Rahel Solomon in New York. Stick with CNN. Our coverage continues. One World is coming up next.

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