Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

CNN International: China Conducts 2nd Day Of Military Drills Around Taiwan; ICJ Orders Israel To "Immediately Halt" Rafah Offensive; IDF Recovers Bodies Of Three Killed By Hamas October 7; Memorial Day Travel Expected To Break Records; Kenyan President Visits State Department, Pentagon As U.S. Seeks To Deepen Military Partnership; U.S. Missionary Couple Killed By Gang While Working In Haiti. Aired 3-3:45p ET

Aired May 24, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:36]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: It is 8:00 p.m. in London, 9:00 p.m. in The Hague, 3:00 p.m. in Port-au-Prince, 3:00 p.m. as well here in New York.

I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.

And let's get right to the news.

Turning now to growing tensions in Asia. Today, China began a second day of war drills around Taiwan. The Chinese military says its goal is to test its ability to, quote, seize power, and occupy key areas. That's quite a statement from China, given concerns in this country about its ambitions.

Joining me now to discuss is Republican congressman from Illinois, Darin LaHood. He sits on the House Intelligence Committee, also, the Select Committee on the Chinese Communist Party.

Congressmen, thanks so much for taking the time.

REP. DARIN LAHOOD (R-IL): Jim, good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: So, first, I wonder what your thoughts are on these drills. Of course, it's not the first time that the Chinese military has conducted drills in and around Taiwan. Do you see them though particularly in how they've encircled Taiwan with Chinese forces as they rehearsal in effect, for a blockade of Taiwan?

LAHOOD: Well, I think you've got to take it for exactly that. Make no mistake about, Jim, Xi Jinping and the Chinese Communist Party have talked about taking back Taiwan by 2027. And we have to take them at their word.

But when you see the type of provocation with these drills, you see the buildup of their military, you see the provocation in the South China Sea with the building of islands and the adversarial approach, they've taken to our allies there, of course, you have to take it seriously. The other point that I would make, Jim, is, you know, China feels like

they've won in Tibet. No one talks about Tibet anymore, after all the international pressure. They feel like they won in Hong Kong, right? Hong Kong is not the same place it once was. And so Taiwan is next on the list.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. I've spent a lot of time in both those places and you think the South China Sea as well, with those unsinkable aircraft carriers as they say, in the islands, China has built there.

When I visited Taiwan last year and I know you've had enormous focus on this issue as well, there seemed to be thinking that China was less likely to invade Taiwan D-Day style, and possibly more likely attempt to do what were seeing with these drills surround blockade, pressure Taiwan, in effect into capitulating.

Is that your view as well or do you think both options are still on the table?

LAHOOD: I don't think we know yet on that. I think they're trying to use there might and their pressure to do a number of those things.

Listen, I'm glad we pass the supplemental about six weeks ago in the Congress that gives roughly about $8 billion, $9 billion towards Taiwan. That's a positive step in the right direction. We've also heard a lot about fortifying out Taiwan with the amount of military supplies that were going to give them and the equipment that they need, whether that's harpoons and javelins and lots of other things.

I think we also have to think about things like we did with Australia with the AUKUS Agreement, China hates the AUKUS Agreement, right? The building at nuclear submarines with Australia.

But the other part is we have to work with our like-minded allies in the region that care deeply about the aggression of the Chinese there and build up our naval operations in the region, too. All that is going on but we have to send the strongest possible message. We're not going to allow China to take back the democracy, which is Taiwan.

SCIUTTO: So the question becomes, how far would the U.S. go to prevent that, as you know, President Biden has said four times, the U.S. would defend Taiwan militarily, which is, of course, a step beyond the long- held policy of strategic ambiguity. In fact, leave that as an open question.

First of all, do you think that's the right move should the U.S. commit itself to at least contributing to Taiwan's defense if China were to invade or blockade?

LAHOOD: Yes. I think we have to. When you draw a line in the sand, you have to stand by that. And I think we, you know, as a country need to do that. And that will send a strong message. And you got to continue to be consistent.

But I also think you've got a build-up a coalition similar to what we have in Ukraine right now and other places, that has to be a part of this also.

[15:05:05]

I've spoken to some of Donald Trumps former senior advisers from the last administration, John Kelly, former chief of staff, John Bolton, former national security adviser, they have said that in their view, Trump would be unlikely to commit the U.S. to military action to defend Taiwan.

I wonder, do you think that U.S. military commitment as expressed by President Biden would survive if Trump were to be the president. Do you believe differently? Do believe Trump would enforce such a red line as well?

LAHOOD: Well, I think if you look at the team of national security advisors around President Trump, it's a first-class group of individuals, whether that's Mike Pompeo, John Ratcliffe, you know, people have that caliber, they know the threats from China. Ive heard, you know, the former DNI, Radcliffe, talk about China having a plan to replace the United States.

So I think President Trump has a superior national security team around him now, and I have strong confidence they'll make the best decisions. But Xi Jinping does not want to see, in my view, President Trump being the next president. I think he preferred to have Biden and the appeasement of the Biden administration than he would President Trump.

The thing is though Biden is the one who has said explicitly he would defend Taiwan militarily. John Bolton described to me that the Trump in the Oval Office would say Taiwan has no chance against China, and therefore, the U.S. should not put itself in-between them in effect, Biden has made that commitment. Trump has not.

Should -- should Trump as he's running to be reelected, say that he would defend Taiwan militarily?

LAHOOD: Well, I wouldn't necessarily associate what President Trump's going to do with John Bolton. I would look at other figures, Robert O'Brien, the former national security adviser, Mike Pompeo, John Ratcliffe, Devin Nunes -- these are people that are close to Trump and giving him advice on that.

I think they'd give you a different opinion on that when you looked at, you know, what we did against China with some of the economic pressure we put on China, it got their attention. And I think you'll see a strong approach from the Trump administration towards China.

President Trump knows that China is the biggest threat to America for the future. And we have to win that strategic competition.

SCIUTTO: Before we go a quick comment or a quick question rather on the situation on the southern border, which I know you focused on as well. Migrant flows, they are expected to surge after months of declining to some degree, a Senate bipartisan deal failed again in the Senate. This was worked out as you know, among Republican and Democratic senators, and then blocked in the House in February, in part because Trump indicated the GDP lawmakers in effect wait for him.

Now, my question is, if you believe as Republicans say, they do, and by the way Democrats as well, that the situation at the border is a crisis, why no urgency to act now, then? If you look at the details of that agreement, it sharply, sharply tightened restrictions at the border.

LAHOOD: Well, Jim, what I would say that is we do believe there's urgency. That's why we passed H.R.2 last summer. H.R.2 is the strongest immigration bill that would put a stop to what's gone on at the southern border.

Jim, make no mistake about it. It's an unmitigated disaster at the border. H.R.2 would put back in place to remain in Mexico policy, secure the border, support our border patrol agents. We pass that in the House. Chuck Schumer never called it up for a vote.

I'm -- I agree with you. We need to do this in a bipartisan way. But when you play games like that, when you don't even bring up H.R.2, that leaves us with not a lot of options. And so, to this day, I can't figure out why the Biden administration hasn't administratively or through executive order, put the remain in Mexico policy back in place to help stop this.

SCIUTTO: I mean, the point is if we're talking about games, there was a bipartisan plan that came out of the Senate, negotiated by -- we're not talking about soft legislators here when you think of a Jim Lankford, for instance, who led the Republican negotiating team there. If the choice -- and knowing that H.R.2 is not going to pass the Senate, if the choice is between nothing and a bipartisan agreement, why isn't that bipartisan agreement the safer choice for the southern border?

LAHOOD: Well, again, I think you can look at this two ways. If H.R.2 had been brought up in the Senate and had a debate and had a vote on it, that'd be one thing. It wasn't even done.

So they gave us know opportunity to even see how we wanted to govern. And by the way, this was last summer, we tried to address this. So again, I'm in favor of trying to work in a bipartisan way, but we've had no cooperation -- cooperation on the other side on H.R.2, and I go back to the remain in Mexico policy was not a law. That was done through executive order by President Trump. On day one, Biden ripped that up and said, I don't want this anymore.

So I think we need to have a conversation. This needs to be addressed, but I worry now that we're so far into an election year that we can't get that done. And I think that's what you saw.

[15:10:13]

Schumer bringing this bill up, this week -- I mean, it failed because I think people realize it was more just a show than it was to get something done.

SCIUTTO: Well, let's hope there's -- there's more bipartisan progress on this going forward.

Congressman LaHood, thanks so much for joining the program.

LAHOOD: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Now the story we're following. The International Court of Justice has now ordered Israel to, quote, immediately halt its offensive in Rafah. The verdict delivered another blow to Israel this week as it faces increasing international pressure over the conduct of its war in Gaza. The ICJ warned that an IDF operation in Southern Gaza could make what it calls a disastrous humanitarian situation there even worse.

Here is the judge's ruling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE NAWAF SALAM, PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE: Under the Genocide Convention, Israel must immediately halt its military offensive and any other action in Rafah governorate which may inflict on the Palestinian group in Gaza, conditions of life that could bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That ruling is part of a broader case brought by South Africa accusing Israel of genocide.

CNN's international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson, joins me now.

Of course, Nic, we should note, as you know, the court has no means of enforcing its orders on Israel. Israel has made it quite clear that it will not comply with this. But does the collection of this pressure, is it moving Israeli operations there or are they in effect moving forward regardless?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, it is a binding ruling. You're right, Jim. And there is no appeal allowed for that ruling. And yes, the ICJ has no teeth to go and enforce it and these are fundamentals said that the court seemed to be where rather than South Africa called this groundbreaking today saying, although the court can't use the language of a ceasefire for South Africa, brought this to the court. These accusations of genocide, this is what they're saying.

This is in essence the ICJ, the world's top court, calling for a ceasefire. To your point, you know, it does seem to bind together Israeli officials. The prime minister today, having that phone conversation with cabinet members, including the head of a National Security Council. National Security Council saying there is no way that what we're doing, our operations in Rafah in any way endanger, the population, the people of Palestine, or Palestinians rather within Gaza, that is the language of the context of what genocide is. That's not happening.

You know, the language that's being used against the ICJ by Israel is very strong and it's very rough and particularly from the hard right within the government, even tougher, the response from Ben-Gvir, national security the minister, was the response to the ICJ should be two occupy Rafah.

But I think in that broader context, you mentioned of the growing international pressure we've witnessed this week. It's additive it's a cumulative that in no way does it change anything on the ground right now?

SCIUTTO: Yeah. I mean, to increase singly internationally isolated, not clear that's moving the internal decision-making anyway. Nic Robertson, good to have you.

Well, also in Israel, Israel's military recovered the bodies of three hostages from Gaza in an overnight operation. All had been killed during Hamas attack on October seventh. This is the second time in two weeks that the IDF has recovered bodies in Gaza after negotiations to return hostages stalled three weeks ago.

In an attempt to revive those talks, CIA Director Bill Burns is in Paris meeting with both Israeli and Qatari negotiators.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Jerusalem.

Jeremy, tell us about the operation that recovered them. And was it a surprise to the IDF that these hostages were already dead or did they think or just not know if they were alive?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, until they recovered the bodies were until at least they got the intelligence that led them to the bodies, the Israeli government had not confirmed that these three hostages had indeed been killed, or that they were dead as hostages in Gaza. These were, we've seen that there are now 37 hostages who the Israeli government has said we believe that these people are dead and these hostages were not a part of that group.

The Israeli military though, has width intelligence over the last two weeks twice now recovered the bodies of hostages last Friday, we saw that they had recovered for a hostage bodies in a tunnel and Jabalia and today, another three hostages also recovered in Jabalia.

[15:15:03]

The three hostages I want to read their names, Orion Hernandez Radoux, a 30-year-old Mexican French tourist who was attending that Nova Music Festival with his girlfriend Shani Louk, whose body was recovered by the Israeli military last week, we should note.

Michel Nisenbaum, a 59-year-old father and grandfather who is trying to go and rescue his granddaughter, who was staying with her father on an Israeli military base near Gaza the morning of October 7, he was killed on her way to get her.

And then there's Hanan Yablonka, a 42 year-old, father of two. I spoke with his brother-in-law today who talked to me about these nearly eight months during which he believed he certainly hope so that his brother was -- his brother-in-law, was alive. And this morning getting the news not only of this Israeli military operation that recovered the body, but also learning for the first time that his brother-in-law was indeed dead and has been according to the Israeli military since October 7.

Now, that leaves us still with 121 hostages who were taken captive on October 7, still held in Gaza. As I said, 37 of those are confirmed dead by the Israeli government. And so now the task of course, is to -- of these negotiators is to try and rescue the fate of those remaining hostages.

And so, the Israeli Mossad director, David Barnea, meeting today with the CIA Director Bill Burns, as well as the Qatari prime minister in Paris to try and revive those negotiations, which have been stalled now, Jim, as you know, for more than two weeks. We understand that these really negotiating team has somewhat of an expanded mandate, which is a term that's been used in previous rounds as well.

It's not clear exactly where the Israeli government is willing to compromise now that they didn't before, but we know, of course, that one of the key sticking points here among several others, has been the fact that Hamas is insisting on a total end to the war in order to release any hostages. And that's a position that the Israeli government hasn't been willing to agree to, at least not yet -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much, just heartbreaking news for those families.

Well, still to come on the road and in the skies, millions of Americans, they're on the move as Memorial Day travel in the U.S. gets underway. We'll check in, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:18]

SCIUTTO: So in case you hadn't heard, this is a busy travel weekend in the U.S. I'm one of those traveling. Memorial Day is right around the corner. On Monday, the unofficial start of summer by land and by air, AAA says that 44 million Americans will travel during this Hollywood period. That's a lot of people. Thursday was the second busiest day at U.S. airports ever, ever, with TSA expecting to screen some 18 million passengers over the weekend as a whole. AAA projects that around 34 million people will be traveling by car. That's the highest number for the holiday since the organization began tracking in 2000.

Here to break down what it looks like to be a busy weekend ahead, lets bring in CNN's Pete Muntean.

So, Pete, we do hear numbers like this on holiday weekends, but this one is actually setting not just records for the year, but records for any year since records have been kept.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: And it seems like the rush keeps getting earlier and earlier, Jim. You know, I'm looking here at Route 50 eastbound going over the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. I'm on the Annapolis side, the west side of the bridge. That's going east towards the Ocean City beaches in Maryland, also the Delaware beaches like Rehoboth and Bethany.

Traffic already building up here and Maryland officials anticipate that there will be about 330,000 cars passing over the 4.5 mile long bridge between now and Monday, really fits into the theme of this huge projection for holiday weekend road trips, 38.4 million people. That is 4 percent higher than last year, 2 percent higher than 2021 before the pandemic.

We're talking even bigger than 2005, widely known to be a huge year for travel. That's the year the travel really fully rebounded after the slumped caused by 9/11. The biggest since 2000, according to AAA, think in sync, but you couldn't play it on your iPad, on your iPods, excuse me, because the iPad wasn't going to come out for another year.

This is really in the context of so much economic news. There's been some grim economic news on the retail front, although AAA says people are really prioritizing spending on travel, especially now that were fully out of the pandemic, this whole idea of revenge travel that became a buzzword in 2022 and 2023, that is here to stay and people will keep spending and spite of these gas prices that if you have a memory that's worth a little bit, 360 is the national average for a gallon of regular, it was about the same this time last year. It might feel kind of high.

But I want you to listen to AAA's Aixa Diaz, she says doesn't really faze people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AIXA DIAZ, AAA SPOKESPERSON: That would be the biggest number that we've seen for road traveled for Memorial Day weekend ever. We just keep seeing this increase. I don't know when the -- when the pullbacks finally going to start happening, but we haven't seen it yet. The bubble is not going to burst anytime soon as the bottom line here, although for a lot of people, they will be stuck in the biggest bubble for traffic that we're in it right now.

According to AAA, you might want to wait until after 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. this evening tomorrow, wait until the evening or try and go in the early morning according to AAA. Traffic in some major metro areas like here in the D.C. Baltimore area, could be 90 percent higher.

We're almost talking two times worse than the norm, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Wow. See, Pete, I thought you're too young to know what an iPod was, but its kind of comforting to know that that's still a familiar -- familiar thought.

MUNTEAN: I had my iPod. I was there.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen to those warnings, tried to travel earlier late.

Thanks so much, Pete Muntean. So, from the road to the skies, CNN's Ryan Young, he's at one of the

busiest airports in the world, Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International.

So, I mean, the lines are moving behind you, but you say the volume is just get off the charts.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is off the charts, and, of course, we all remember those iPod days, but now, look, you use your iPhone, hopefully breeze through this traffic here at the airport. I can tell you already, they're experiencing some bumper to bumper delays, even getting to the airports, the stuff we hear a little bit, that traffic is especially being felt in the metro areas. But when you talking about traveling the airport, this is the place to

talk about.

They set a record yesterday, Jim, with more than 111,000 people and not oftentimes is anything beat Super Bowl numbers, but here they actually beat the number two after when they hosted the Super Bowl here in Atlanta a few years ago, they only had 109 that go through security that day.

The line that you're looking at right now, there's three other massive lines and three other different locations throughout this airport, and then add on the fact that we have an international terminal at this airport. So you don't always see the volume peaking at certain times here.

[15:25:03]

All lanes are open. The average wait time has been about 16 to 17 minutes. But there was a time when it peaked about 20 to 24 minutes. They have all lanes with traffic monitors. But listen to some of the travelers we talked to who were excited about getting on their flights.

Okay. Well, apparently, we don't have that sound bite, but it's okay, Jim, I can tell you this.

Look, there are people that I talked to who say they were budgeting for today. You understand that this is the first time people have felt comfortable since the pandemic getting back into the friendly skies, it looks like so far, there have not been any major delays I went out and looked at the board, every single flight has been green. There's not even a delay up there.

So sometimes when you do Thanksgiving and Christmas travel stories, you see delay, delay, delay, delay. That's not happening right now. People have been smiling.

Now, look, let's be honest here, there are people who have kind of pushed it to the edge. And when you have to wait in a line like this, that is created some sort of issues. But outside of that, screen so far so well see if that continues throughout the weekend, 2.9 million people in the air just yesterday.

SCIUTTO: Yowzers. That's a lot.

Well, let's hope -- let's hope it keeps flowing. Ryan Young, thanks so much.

YOUNG: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: Another story we're following, it's a sad one. Two American missionaries killed in Haiti, as that country struggles with surging gang violence. We're going to have an update and the whole story coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: On the heels of the U.S. designating Kenya a major non-NATO ally, Kenyan President William Ruto is now meeting with the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, earlier highlighting the deepening economic, military, and security relationship between the two nations at the State Department with Secretary of State Blinken and the vice president as well.

[15:30:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM RUTO, KENYAN PRESIDENT: I am very happy that President Biden and this visit is giving us the opportunity to rewrite and recalibrate the relationship between this great superpower and our continent. And I am very proud that among the things we've agreed are not just about Kenya and the U.S. It's about Kenya and the continent of Africa.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Last night's state dinner kicked off with a toast to that partnership.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To Kenya, to our guests, cheers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Throw a party there. It was followed by a glamorous and star- studded evening with the performance from country star Brad Paisley. And a surprise showing by one well-known Kenyan American, that, of course, is former President Barack Obama.

In the next hour, President Ruto, will reflect on the trip's accomplishments and much more in an interview right here on CNN with anchor Richard Quest.

He joins me now.

Richard, first of all, look forward to hearing that conversation.

Vice President Harris, she said today that when history looks back, this state visit will be seen as an inflection point in the relationship between the U.S. and Africa.

I wonder, is she right? Because there's been a lot of talk about how China and Russia have been making big inroads there and leaving the U.S. behind to some degree.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: So inflection point, he said rewrite and recalibrate. But what does that actually mean and it's a re -- I mean, there's a real politic in the world that China has provided vast sums of money, put many of these countries like Kenya into great debt. They how having to choose, it is not as it is a zero- sum game in many cases. They are having to choose, and the way the U.S. has put out the red carpet and feted, not just the president, but also the Kenyan people will have advantages and benefits. We need to know what they are.

Related to this, Jim, yeah, President Ruto may love to stride around the world like this, but there are some very real questions at home that he has to answer to and that will be wanting to hear about as well.

SCIUTTO: Tell me what others questions at home?

QUEST: Well, first of all, on the more petty point, if you will, you know, he flew -- there's rumors he paid a $1.5 million to fly a jet to the U.S. and there's a perfectly good plane Kenyan Airways could have brought in.

Secondly, there are question of new taxes. He's a lover of taxes in many cases. What's that going to do?

Thirdly, where is he going to get his economic growth?

And finally, on this Haiti question, I just did an A.I. search on Meta about the number of conflicts, wars, whatever you want in Africa, he's got loads of them on his doorstep. So why is he sending security forces to Haiti when there's plenty of places where they could be deployed, all legitimate questions for the president.

SCIUTTO: So, why -- I mean, I'm curious how he answers because -- I mean, the Kenyan security force for Haiti is in an enormous, on a favor is the right word, but its quite a contribution to a country in great crisis. The U.S. position on that that security forces that actually a lot of folks there don't want the U.S. in a primary security role on the ground.

So, I mean, is it -- is it part of an attempt for Kenya to warm that relationship with the U.S.? In other words, center, pin itself to the U.S. star. Yeah.

QUEST: Yeah. And the question so what is the quid pro quo for that? If I'm going to help you by sending a few thousand security forces because you don't want to look like you're interfering in your own backyard in the Caribbean, what do I get back? And it won't be next week. It's not as vulgar as that. It'll be in six months time, a years time when the chip will be put down, we helped you then, we need your help now. SCIUTTO: And indeed they do have this declaration as a key non-NATO

ally.

QUEST: Whatever that means, whatever that means.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. Well, no, no mutual defense agreement. We know that, but it's -- it's an alliance. It's a step I imagine.

Richard Quest --

QUEST: Jim, Jim, I think you and I need to rewrite and recalibrate our relationship.

(LAUGHTER)

SCIUTTO: You'll be my non-NATO ally. How about that, Richard Quest? We'll declare you that.

QUEST: Got it.

SCIUTTO: I declare you that.

Please, please be sure to join Richard next hour for his interview with the Kenyan President William Ruto. That, of course, right here on CNN.

So we were speaking about Haiti, and here's one measure of the violence there. A married couple from the U.S. who were serving as missionaries there were killed on Thursday. The family of Davy and Natalie Lloyd said the couple was shot to death by a gang last night in the capital Port-au-Prince.

[15:35:03]

David Culver has been spending a lot of time in Haiti covering the surge in gang violence.

Do we know the circumstances of this particular murders, sadly, among many in this country, we should acknowledge, but this murder and why they were targeting targeting American missionaries?

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're getting some more details right now, actually, Jim. Our colleague Kaitlyn Ho (ph), just got off a Zoom interview with David Lloyd. He's the father of Davy and the father-in-law of Natalie, who you showed there that young couple and he essentially was saying that he was on the phone between these two attacks and described how his son was tied up and beaten, and then called his father short time later.

That missions in Haiti, that group that the Lloyds founded and that that young couple was served as missionaries four reported that the couple was killed along with a third person, a Haitian staffer, goes by the name of Jude who was part of that attack and lost his life as well.

So how did this all play out? As we know? Gangs have their grip over Port-au-Prince, more than 80 percent of that capital city is controlled by gangs and it's multiple gangs dozens within Haiti's capital alone.

And so, when you talk about this missionary group serving in one location, its very likely for what we've been seeing that that is part of one gang's territory, we're not quite sure if a second gang then came in or something with that one gang that was allowing them to operate their turned. We're working to get clarification on what exactly happened that then led to this ambush that lasted several hours and force these missionaries to then barricade themselves.

Of course, this is an area, Jim, that we have visited several times, Port-au-Prince, in particular trying to get into some of this gang territory can be next to impossible. And quite frankly, most folks don't leave or want to attempt it even with B6 level armored vehicles and heavy security team.

But these missionaries are operating across us that country and very dangerous areas. And this shows you how treacherous it can be.

SCIUTTO: Sorry, David, you're saying that while he was bound and gagged, we will not gag apparently, but while he was bound, he called his who was in communication with the father in that condition?

CULVER: Yeah, that's exactly what's coming across right now. And they put this part in a post as well. So he was beaten by these gangs and so it also appears that the way that they're able to communicate, we experienced is there to is it's hard with sometimes with cell tower to get signals. So they have Starlink that they're able to then lock onto and because this was on the Lloyd family compound, they were able to be in touch with family who at this point were outside of the country and we believe were in the U.S. at that communications was playing out at that time.

So it's incredibly tragic when you think about that, of course, Jim.

SCIUTTO: I mean, it's real torture. A sad story. David Culver, thanks so much for covering.

CULVER: Yeah. All right.

SCIUTTO: Well, now to Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine, the Kremlin's latest offensive into northeastern Ukraine has forced thousands to evacuate. The international rescue committee has been on the ground in Kharkiv in the northeast to help those fleeing their homes.

Joining me now to discuss and other challenges with the many millions of refugees from Ukraine is the International Rescue Committee's vice president for emergencies, Bob Kitchen.

Bob, thanks so much for taking the time.

BOB KITCHEN, V.P. FOR EMERGENCIES, INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE: Thanks for having me. SCIUTTO: So you've been working with families that have two evacuate

this advancing Russian force, which has already shown its capacity to target and kill civilians repeatedly throughout this war.

Can you tell us what these refugees have been telling your team as they flee to what they hope to be safer areas?

KITCHEN: Well, the good news is it seems as though the Ukrainian government, military have stabilize the front line now in recent days. So it's been quite a lot of work in the last few weeks though, more than 14,000 people have been forced to flee their homes. And as you say, often on very short notice, one colleague was recounting that we had had to help, a young woman who'd had to flee in our pajamas. And that's all she had with her.

So, being able to help her register for aid, to give her some clothing, some non-food items, and warm blankets to be okay was something that we were able to do. But that's really the story people feeling, hearing the fighting getting closer and closer, and having to make a heart-breaking decision that they may have to run for their lives away from their homes and all of their belongings.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this because the trouble, of course, is given the onslaught of Russian air and missile and drone attacks that you can flee from the front lines, but still very much be under threat. What is considered a safe or safer, I should say, area in Ukraine?

KITCHEN: Well, that's a very long front line all the way down the eastern along the south coast. What were tracking at the moment around Kharkiv is that there's 189,000 people living within this now at risk territory of 25 kilometers away from the Russian border.

[15:40:08]

So while we've only seen 14,000 run for their lives right now, there's a lot more at risk. People are making the decision to come into Kharkiv City, which has you say, has seen significant incoming fire, shells, missiles in recent weeks and continue. So, to say they're running to safety is not quite true. They're running to a safer place away from the ground territory that's now been seized by the Russians.

SCIUTTO: Of course, many millions of Ukrainians and fled since Russia's full-scale invasion in February. I met with many of them at the time, and many fleeing to neighboring countries and they're still there, you know, particularly in a country such as Poland bordering Ukraine just to the west.

What is the state of their welcome today? Because while those countries generously welcomed many, many millions of refugees, of course, there have been strains on the school system, the medical system, et cetera. I mean, is there -- are there any signs that that welcome is running out in your experience?

KITCHEN: I think Poland especially has been an example of a country welcoming neighbors that extensive course down into the rest of mainland Europe. Many countries have accepted tens, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians. But the lion share that 2 million people at one point were in Poland, saw more than a millionaire, 90 percent of which are women and children who are trying to stay close to Ukraine because their men fought still in country, still fighting the war.

So that welcome endures, it has changed over time. Of course, there we are working hand in hand and with the Polish government, the IRC on the ground to help Ukrainians become contributing members of the Polish society, while they're there so helping them find work, helping them attend school as you say, helping them contribute to not be a burden on society, which helps extend that sense of welcome. It's enduring.

SCIUTTO: I mean, the numbers are just incredible. And it's an enormous gift really, we should say, we should acknowledge to those many fleeing Ukrainian.

Bob Kitchen, we appreciate the work the IRC does. Thanks so much for joining.

KITCHEN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: We are going to take a short break.

For our international viewers, "LIVING GOLF" is next. And if you're streaming us on Max, we will be right back with more news after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)