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Donald Trump Found Guilty on 34 Felony Counts; Trump Trial Ranks Among Most Covered Trials. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired May 31, 2024 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
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JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, I'm John Vause, live around the world on CNN International and streaming on CNN Max with our rolling coverage of a day like no other in U.S. history.
Donald Trump is now a convicted felon, the first former president found guilty on felony criminal charges. Trump is also the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, which means he could also become the first convicted felon to be U.S. president. There is nothing in the the U.S. Constitution preventing him from running, and potentially winning, the White House.
After less than 12 hours of deliberation -- deliberation over two days, a Manhattan jury of seven men and five women returned guilty verdicts on all 34 counts of falsifying business records to cover up hush money payments to a porn star, Stormy Daniels, ahead of the 2016 election.
Trump is now facing up to 20 years in jail. While that seems unlikely, sentencing is set for July 11 and will be decided by the trial judge, Juan Merchan.
Trump's lawyers have been planning an appeal almost since the trial began and say they will go all the way to the Supreme Court, if necessary.
In the meantime, convicted felon Donald Trump remains a free man, apparently in good spirits, and ready to fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!
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VAUSE: Trump Tower in New York has been a rallying point for both supporters and opponents. It's also where the former president, now convicted felon, is expected to speak publicly later Friday, most likely repeating many of the false allegations and statements he made immediately after the guilty verdicts were announced.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You have a Soros-backed D.A., and the whole thing -- we didn't do a thing wrong.
And we'll keep fighting. We'll fight 'til the end, and we'll win, because our country's gone to hell. We don't have the same country anymore. We have a divided mess.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The Manhattan district attorney would not comment publicly on any recommendation for sentencing. Instead, Alvin Bragg thanked the jury for carefully considering all the evidence presented by the prosecution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALVIN BRAGG, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I did my job. Our job is to follow the facts and the law without fear or favor, and that's exactly what we did here.
I did my job. We did our job. Many voices out there. The only voice that matters is the voice of the jury, and the jury has spoken.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The lead attorney for Donald Trump tells CNN they were prepared for a guilty verdict and now plan to argue in the appeal that the jury was biased.
More now from CNN's Julia Benbrook.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: This was a rigged, disgraceful trial. The real verdict is going to be November 5, by the people, and they know what happened here; and everybody knows what happened here.
JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former President Donald Trump's speaking to the cameras shortly after the verdict was announced.
A Manhattan jury found him guilty of all 34 felony counts of falsifying business records related to a hush-money payment to adult film star Stormy Daniels in 2016 to cover up an alleged affair. Trump denied the affair and had pleaded not guilty to the charges.
TRUMP: We didn't do a thing wrong. I'm a very innocent man, and it's OK. I'm fighting for our country. I'm fighting for our Constitution.
BENBROOK (voice-over): During the trial, Trump's lawyers argued that there was no evidence of criminal intent to defraud, and that the prosecutor's star witness, Michael Cohen, was an admitted liar.
But prosecutors, who alleged Trump was trying to illegally influence the 2016 presidential election, pushed back against that argument, saying documents and the testimony of others, particularly former "National Enquirer" CEO David Pecker, corroborated Cohen's testimony.
The jury deliberated for nearly 12 hours over two days.
In a press conference following the verdict, District Attorney Alvin Bragg thanked them for their service.
BRAGG: Jurors perform a fundamental civic duty. Their service is literally the cornerstone of our judicial system. We should all be thankful for the careful attention that this jury paid to the evidence and the law.
[00:05:12]
BENBROOK (voice-over): Reporting in Manhattan, I'm Julia Benbrook.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: So, on an unprecedented day, CNN legal analyst Norm Eisen had a front-row seat to history, inside that New York courtroom, as all 34 guilty verdicts were read out, and he joins us now from New York.
Welcome back.
NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Thank you, John.
It's been such a highlight of my sojourn at the Trump trial to come over here every evening and chat with you about what went on in the courtroom.
As "The National Enquirer" publisher, David Pecker, said to Donald Trump in August 2015, "I'll be your eyes and ears." It's been an honor to do that for the show in Room 1530 of Manhattan criminal court.
VAUSE: And we've been honored to have you do that for us, as well. You know, the reporting has been great. We're now -- this is it. This is the final moment. Of course, sentencing still to come.
But you sat through every day of this trial for us. You were there. You recorded what had happened.
Now we get to this point. Guilty verdicts coming one after the other, after the other, 34 in all. So what was the atmosphere like in the courtroom at the time, and what were your own thoughts?
EISEN: Roller coaster.
VAUSE: Yes.
EISEN: First, the judge took the bench. We're all sitting there. Nothing's going on. The judge takes the bench and says, Well -- about 4:15 says, I'm sending the jury home for the day.
So we all think -- I had written one complete CNN trial diary about how not much happened today. Then he comes back out a few minutes later. He says, We have a note
from the jury, and there's a verdict. And even though it was over 60 very battle-tested and tough journalists who fill that courtroom every day, there was a loud gasp from everybody there. So loud that the judge said, I will not tolerate any noise at all when the verdict is read.
Half an hour later, the jury foreman led the jury in. And John, I knew it was a guilty verdict when I watched that jury file in the courtroom, because they almost never look at Trump, but usually they have their heads up, their eyes raised. They're looking in the jury box. Their heads were down. Their heads were hanging as they looked away from Trump because of the weight of the historic moment that was about to arrive in the courtroom as the foreman of the jury read out the verdicts, one after one. The verdict on count one, guilty, and then the remaining 33, all guilty for Donald Trump.
VAUSE: Earlier this week, we've talked off camera about the timing of the verdict, when it might come. My money was on Friday. You thought maybe next week was more likely.
But guilty on all counts after, what, just over 11 hours of deliberation. Is that an indication of what was an overwhelming case put forward by the prosecution, or a poor defense by Trump's lawyers?
EISEN: I think it, above all, was a testament to the force of the evidence, the power of the law.
The judge did a very good job. He took those complicated legal concepts, really boiled them down. He made the prosecution and the defense gave him draft after draft.
I think you have to credit Michael Cohen. The defense made this case all about whether or not you believe Michael Cohen. But if you do believe Michael Cohen, and he was believable and corroborated by so much evidence, John. If you do believe him, it makes it a much faster case.
I thought the defense did a good job to the extent that their client would let them, but he often made them do foolish things, like challenging whether he actually had an affair with Stormy Daniels. Nobody believed that he didn't.
VAUSE: Well, once a verdict was announced, the prosecution's star witness, the former Trump bagman, Michael Cohen, released a statement, which reads in part, "Today is an important day for accountability and the rule of law. While it's been a difficult journey for me and my family, the truth always matters." He goes on to thank his lawyers for their support.
So, you know, despite what Trump and his supporters have been saying and will be saying in the weeks and months ahead, is that what this trial essentially comes down to: accountability, the rule of law? No one, not a former or wannabe president, is above the law?
EISEN: That's the oldest American idea. That's why the -- the founders and framers of our country rejected King George III.
There was one person who was above the law. In the place of a king, we put our Constitution. And this verdict was really about that. And John, the other thing that it was about is the integrity of our democracy.
[00:10:04]
Prosecutors took a very bold choice. And again, you and I talked about this. I've always characterized this case as one about covering up 2016 election interference, the hush money payment that was a conspiracy to keep information that voters were entitled to out of the election.
In order to reach today's 34 guilty verdicts, on every one of those, they had to find -- to find a felony, that there was a 2016 election interference conspiracy, and they did 34 times. That was their only option. And they made a statement about the integrity of American democracy, as well as the integrity of business records here in the state of New York.
VAUSE: Well, next comes sentencing, and Trump is an older defendant, a first-time offender. These are Class E felonies, which are less serious than others. All arguments for a non-custodial lighter sentence here.
But there's also the logistics of sending a former president to jail, which seems to come into play at some point. But then Trump's constant gag order violations go against him, as well, right? That contempt of court, which we saw ten counts of.
So I guess the question is, what's the likelihood that Donald Trump will, in fact, do some jail time?
EISEN: This is the most serious falsifying business records case in the history of this state of New York. About 10 percent of the cases result in a jail sentence.
There are mitigating factors here. But the seriousness of the crime, the sheer number of felonies here, Donald Trump's total lack of repentance. It's not just the gag order violations. He's not sorry. He's out there proclaiming that -- that this was a travesty. It's the opposite of contrition.
All of those factors, together with the ones you point to, will be taken into account at the sentencing.
I think there's a substantial but not certain chance that the judge gives him a custodial sentence of about somewhere in the six months' range. In New York, that's no benefit to get six months, because you have to serve that sentence in Rikers Island. Of course, Trump won't serve time until the conclusion of his appeals.
But -- but I wouldn't rule out a sentence of incarceration here.
VAUSE: Well, when it happens, I'm sure you'll be there for us. And we'll have all the details, as we have over the last -- what -- three, four weeks of this trial. So thank you so much, Norm Eisen.
It's been a pleasure.
EISEN: John, let's make an appointment. July 11 will be the hearing on sentencing.
VAUSE: Look forward to it.
EISEN: I look forward to being with you then.
VAUSE: OK. Thank you so much. As always, good to see you.
EISEN: Great to see you, John.
VAUSE: So much of this case rested on testimony from Michael Cohen, one of Trump's most loyal henchmen, his longtime fixer and bagman, turned star witness for the prosecution.
During an interview on CNN, Cohen's lawyer says he now feels vindicated by the 34 guilty verdicts.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANYA PERRY, MICHAEL COHEN'S ATTORNEY: He has mixed feelings. They're complex emotions. He feels vindicated, of course. He's gratified that the jury absolutely believed him and returned to swift verdict. He's gratified that the judge denied the motion that would have precluded his testimony, as ridiculous a motion as it was. It still -- also was swiftly denied.
And so he -- he is feeling those things. And, as he testified in court, he definitely wanted to see accountability for his former boss, and mentor, and someone who meant so much to him for so long.
But for those same reasons, he certainly there -- his emotions are tinged with sadness, as well. Sorrow for what has happened in the past ten years and the past several, in particular.
So I think he feels this is a sad day, certainly, for Mr. Trump -- and he actually expressed that to me -- but also for the country. And so I think what he's going to be focused on right now is -- this is not a personal beef, as many people have talked about. And as Todd Blanche has spent a lot of time on -- in closing statements and cross- examination.
As Michael said in his statement, and as he just posted, for him, he wants to focus on the next chapter, both for himself and also for the country. He sees this as a moment -- it's a day of reckoning. And it's -- it's a -- it's a triumph for the rule of law.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Clearly, you know, Danya, so much time was spent ripping apart Michael Cohen's credibility on the stand by -- by Todd Blanche.
This was something he -- you know, he did the cross-examination. He clearly viewed this as a critical -- as critical testimony. To what degree does Michael Cohen feel vindicated, because we have not heard from jurors yet, but clearly, in order to have reached this verdict, they must have believed Michael Cohen on some level.
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Yes, there was a lot of other evidence that backed up things that Michael Cohen had said. Does he -- does he feel some sense of vindication?
PERRY: A hundred percent. There's no other way to read that verdict, and it was -- it was unanimous, of course. It was quickly rendered, and it was guilty on all counts.
So it was -- similarly no hesitation at all about his testimony. And I think that's exactly as it should be.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: The Trump campaign has used all of his legal troubles to raise hundreds of millions of dollars, urging supporters to donate to his legal defense fund, as well as other committees.
And now it seems the Biden campaign is hoping to cash in, as well, posting on social media this: "The only way to keep Donald Trump out of the Oval Office is at the ballot box. Please support our campaign."
CNN's Kayla Tausche has more.
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KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: As the news of the historic conviction of Donald Trump came down, Biden administration employees in the West Wing were said to be transfixed and stunned by the news, which they watched relayed on TVs mounted in the hallways of the West Wing that are constantly tuned to four concurrent cable channel.
One senior administration official, asked by CNN --
TAUSCHE (voice-over): -- how to respond to the Trump verdict, said simply, "It matters."
President Biden is traveling in Delaware, and aides traveling with him declined to share additional details with CNN and the traveling pool about about how President Biden learned of the historic decision, who relayed the news to him, and where he was when he received it.
And there are no public events on President Biden's calendar for the following day, in which he would be expected to be addressing this directly. The reporters are expected to be able to shout questions on a few separate occasions.
As for the Biden-Harris reelection campaign, they have seized the mantle on the messaging, immediately following the verdict blasting text messages, emails, tweets asking for grassroots donations and saying, convicted felon or not, Trump will be the Republican nominee for president; in one message, even suggesting that Trump could see record fundraising --
TAUSCHE: -- as a result of the conviction.
Kayla Tausche, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: After the verdict, Republicans were quick to rally around their presumptive presidential nominee, now convicted felon, many repeating the false accusations made by Trump of political witch hunts and travesties of justice.
Democrats also went on the attack.
Here's CNN's Lauren Fox.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We saw a swift reaction coming from Capitol Hill, especially Republicans, with Speaker Mike Johnson saying that this was "a shameful day in American history," that "Democrats cheered as they convicted the leader of the opposing party on ridiculous charges, predicated on the testimony of a disbarred, convicted felon."
We also heard from other members of the Republican leadership team in the House --
FOX (voice-over): -- including Tom Emmer, who wrote, quote, "Democrats just pulled off the biggest sham in U.S. history. The American people won't forget the corrupt, two-tiered system of justice and will issue the real verdict at the ballot box in November."
Now, over in the United States Senate, we did hear --
FOX: -- from John Cornyn. He is running to replace Mitch McConnell as Republican leader after the November election. He wrote on Twitter, quote, "This verdict is a disgrace, and this trial should have never happened. Now, more than ever, we need to rally around @realDonaldTrump, take back the White House and Senate, and get this country back on track."
Now, you're seeing there a lot of similar themes as Republicans are trying to paint this verdict as one that is political. Meanwhile, Democrats have a different approach.
You heard from Senator Whitehouse, who said on Twitter, "Boom," in reaction to Donald Trump's conviction. You also had Senator Chris Murphy tweeting, quote, "Newsflash: It matters that the Republican nominee for president is a convicted criminal. The rule of law still matters."
So, like so many issues that have come up when we are talking about Donald Trump, the former president of the United States, you have Republicans and Democrats deeply divided on Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: More on the historic conviction of Donald Trump. His attorney, Todd Blanche, says the prosecution's case was riddled with fatal flaws, including some witness testimony and evidence, which will be the basis for an appeal. More on that in a moment.
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VAUSE: Welcome back. Twenty-two minutes past the hour. This is the very latest on our breaking news.
For the first time in U.S. history, a former president is now a convicted felon. Donald Trump was found guilty on all 34 counts in his hush money trial in New York on Thursday.
He was charged with falsifying business records to cover up payments to adult film star Stormy Daniels before the 2016 election, in order to keep quiet their affair.
Sentencing is scheduled for July 11, with probation to up to 20 years in prison a possibility.
Trump is now a free man for now, out of jail on -- without a bond. And he can still run for president.
Donald Trump may be a defendant unlike any other in U.S. history, but Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg says jurors reached this verdict in the same manner as every other trial: by following the facts, following the law.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRAGG: First and foremost, I want to thank the jury for its service. Jurors perform a fundamental civic duty. Their service is literally the cornerstone of our judicial system.
We should all be thankful for the careful attention that this jury paid to the evidence and the law, and their time and commitment over these past several weeks.
Twelve everyday New Yorkers, and of course our alternates, heard testimony from 22 witnesses, including former and current employees of the defendant, media executives, book publishers, custodians of records, and others. They reviewed call logs, text messages, and emails.
They heard recordings. They saw checks and invoices, bank statements, and calendar appointments.
This type of white-collar prosecution is core to what we do at the Manhattan district attorney's office. The 12 everyday jurors vowed to make a decision based on the evidence
and the law, and the evidence and the law alone. Their deliberations led them to a unanimous conclusion, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant, Donald J. Trump, is guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records in the first degree to conceal a scheme to corrupt the 2016 election.
And while this defendant may be unlike any other in American history, we arrived at this trial and, ultimately, today at this verdict in the same manner as every other case that comes to the courtroom doors: by following the facts and the law and doing so without fear or favor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Not surprisingly, though, the lead attorney for Donald Trump's legal team does not believe that this was, in fact, a fair trial.
Todd Blanche is blaming the intense publicity around the case, as well as witness testimony, in particular, from Stormy Daniels. Here's what he told CNN's Kaitlan Collins.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD BLANCHE, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: I think understanding why a jury reaches a verdict is something that -- that every single trial lawyer in the country would love to be able to answer honestly.
[00:25:06]
Look, a lot goes into a jury verdict that -- that doesn't even include what happened at the trial. You know, the decisions that are made before the trial, the decisions that the court makes, and that the parties decide about what witnesses a call, what evidence to put in.
You know, so I think that at the end of the day, it remains true that -- that if the word of Michael Cohen was not accepted at all, then you could not have convicted President Trump. And the jury convicted.
So at the end of the day, they -- they looked past what we thought were fatal flaws in Mr. Cohen's story and his past. And they reached a guilty verdict.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Right. But it wasn't just the word of Michael Cohen. I mean, there was other evidence in this case: the documents. They wanted to rehear, David Pecker's testimony. I mean, they took all of that into consideration.
BLANCHE: Sure. I know. Look, of course, the jury will take everything into consideration that -- they were very serious. Look, this jury showed up on time every day. They were very focused on the evidence and on the -- on the testimony that came in. And here was a lot.
But look, at the end of the day, they -- it was still a case, in our view, as we've been saying for a year, that that relied on testimony of conversations and interactions that took place 8 -- 7, 8, 9 years ago. And -- and, certainly, documents were -- were part of the case. But the documents that the 34 counts were documents that -- that
really had very little connection to -- to President Trump. But for the checks -- the few checks that he signed.
Look, we -- I very much believed that the jury -- that the jury should have found President Trump not guilty. I mean, very -- in my soul, I believe that. And I believed it for a year. I left a -- I left my job to do what I did the past six weeks. And -- and my conviction around what happened today and what I believe the facts show, it remains the same.
COLLINS: I know you -- you disagree with the outcome, obviously. And -- but do you accept that he did have his day in court, and it was a jury of his peers that made this decision?
BLANCHE: Well, no. Not at all.
COLLINS: Why not?
BLANCHE: No. I mean, look, I think -- and this is nothing that we haven't said repeatedly. We were -- we were indicted for conduct that happened in 2015, '16, and '17 in a jurisdiction that that -- it was very hard for us to get a fair trial, Kaitlan.
I mean, and it's -- I know the district attorney has said repeatedly, said it today. This is a bread-and-butter case. We do this all the time.
That is not true. It's just not true. It may be that they bring these types of charges regularly, business records charges, but you cannot find another case in the Manhattan district attorney's -- in the history of that office where they did what they did here, which is charge -- charge somebody for conduct that was 7, 8 years old, somebody's personal records, right? Not corporate records. It's personal records.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Full coverage of the historic guilty verdict for Donald Trump after a very quick break. What would determine if Trump gets probation or time behind bars? A legal analyst explains what the options are.
Stay with us. You're watching CNN.
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VAUSE: Welcome back to our viewers all around the world. I'm John Vause. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.
Convicted felon Donald Trump and his legal team say they're planning to appeal the 34 guilty verdicts in his hush money trial in New York.
The first U.S. president to face a criminal trial was stone-faced with a frown, not visibly reacting as the Manhattan jury delivered their guilty verdicts on all counts of falsifying business records to hide hush money payments to an adult film star, all part of what prosecutors say was an illegal conspiracy to undermine the integrity of the 2016 presidential election.
Trump called the jury's decision a disgrace. He said the real verdict will come during the presidential election, come November 5.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have a country that's in big trouble, but this was a rigged decision, right from day one, with a conflicted judge who should have never been allowed to try this case, never. And we will fight for our Constitution. This is long from over. Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The Manhattan district attorney acknowledged the historic nature of the trial but would not say if he will seek jail time for Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRAGG: The judge has scheduled a sentencing for July 11. We will speak in court in that time. He also set a motion schedule. We will speak in our court filings, as we've done throughout this proceeding.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: There are still many steps for Trump to go through before his sentencing actually is held.
CNN legal analyst Karen Friedman Agnifilo lays out what is ahead for Trump and what determines if he gets probation or prison time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Donald Trump will have to report to probation and probation will prepare what's called a pre- sentencing report, where they take certain information, and this is something they do in every case before sentencing.
Certain information about him, including whether or not he expresses remorse, because that is something that is normally taken into consideration for sentencing.
When Judge Merchan actually sentences any defendant, he takes many factors into consideration.
If you removed the name "Donald Trump" from his consideration, and it was somebody who came before him for sentence that also had three open other felony indictments in three other jurisdictions in both state and federal court. He's somebody who has been convicted of 34 felony counts, was held in contempt ten times for disobeying Judge Merchan's orders. He would absolutely fall within that ten to 30 percent who would be sentenced to prison. But because his name is Donald Trump, who knows what will happen? But
those are the exact factors that any judge in New York state would take into consideration. And those are the people who are convicted of E felon -- felonies that would go to prison.
Now, he could -- he could -- there's a wide range of options. He could get up to four years. He could also do weekends in jail. There's -- there's -- that's as an option if Judge Merchan wanted to do that, where you literally report to jail for weekends.
He could do probation. He could do community service, where he has to pick up trash on the subways. So --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could he do home arrest?
AGNIFILO: He could do home arrest. Every option is on the table with a Class E felony like this.
But I wanted to just put a perspective for people of what any other defendant -- because I worked in the D.A.'s office for about 30 years. I've seen hundreds of thousands of cases and sentences. And those are the factors that would have gone into that equation. And absolutely, without a doubt, any other defendant who was similarly situated to Donald Trump, who is not going to show remorse, and who, I am sure, will push the bounds of the still remaining gag order after this.
We'll see what happens. But anyone else in that position would get -- would get prison.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: A source close to Trump says the former president is in good spirits and ready to fight back. As CNN's Kristen Holmes reports, Trump is showing no contrition after the verdict. In fact, he still has plenty to say about the judge, the trial, and the jury.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Shortly after leaving the courthouse after being convicted and found guilty on all 34 charges, Donald Trump announced from Trump Tower that he'd be giving a press conference on Friday morning, reacting to the verdict in his criminal hush money trial.
Now, I have been told by senior advisers that Donald Trump is going to continue to use the same messaging that he has used since before the trial began, calling this a rigged election, saying that this was political persecution.
[00:35:08]
Now because of this messaging, they believe -- this being senior campaign advisers -- that this is not going to harm him in November, that instead, it will energize Republicans, energize his base.
But it should be made clear that this is really uncharted territory. Despite the fact that they compared this to his other legal issues, including multiple indictments, which actually helped give him a boost in both the polls and in fundraising numbers, this is an actual conviction.
And recent polling show that of people who said that they were already going to vote for Donald Trump, 7 percent said they were less likely to vote for him if he was convicted.
Now, while this is not a huge number, everything is going to count in the upcoming election. Both Biden's team and Trump's team believe that this is going to be a very narrow margin. And 7 percent is especially significant if you are talking about Donald Trump's base, because his campaign believes that Donald Trump's base always shows up to vote.
So whether or not this actually impacts what, what people do when they get to the ballot box remains to be seen.
But we should hear -- we should expect to continue to hear that messaging over and over again, trying to link this case to President Joe Biden and calling this political persecution.
Kristen Holmes, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Live now to Sacramento, California, and Mike Madrid, one of the founders of the Lincoln Project, a conservative political action committee opposed to Donald Trump and Trumpism.
Mike, thanks for being with us.
MIKE MADRID, FOUNDER, LINCOLN PROJECT: Thanks for having me.
HOLMES: OK, so two impeachments, four criminal indictments, more than 90 felony charges. The "Access Hollywood" "grab them" on the tape. Countless other scandals, harsh condemnation from former
administration officials about total disregard of ethical standards and norms during his first term. I mean, the list goes on and none of it has had a lasting impact on Trump's support.
So will being convicted felon Donald Trump make any difference in the long term?
MADRID: What I'm going to push back on that a little bit because I think it has had an effect.
What we're seeing is about 20 percent of Republican voters in primaries throughout the entire primary season showing up and voting for Nikki Haley instead of Donald Trump; and Nikki Haley dropped out of the campaign two months ago.
So that's about three times what the margin was of Republicans defecting to Joe Biden are saying they're anti-Trump just four years ago, and Donald Trump lost that election.
This is significant, and in the intro, the reporter mentioned another 7 percent of committed Donald Trump's supporters first said if there was a felony conviction, they would also leave.
She also said that wasn't a huge number. It's actually a very huge number in electoral politics. Talking 27 percent of Republicans, almost a third of Republicans, having deep, deep reservations about voting for this candidate six months before the election. That's called a five-alarm fire. He's in trouble.
VAUSE: OK. Well, here's another poll. NPR, PBS "Newshour," Marist poll released the morning before the verdicts actually came out. Two- thirds, 67 percent, said a guilty verdict would make no difference to their vote. Three-quarters, 76 percent, said the same about a not guilty verdict, while roughly one in six voters -- This is 17 percent -- said a guilty verdict would make them less likely to vote for Trump.
So, you know, what impact that will have in November, I guess this is the thing. This is an election being fought on the margins. So does that number stick? Because as we know, polls are reflective, not predictive.
So that's where they're at right now. Does this only get worse for Trump? And how much of a role do Democrats have to play in making that happen?
MADRID: Yes, there's no question that gets worse for Trump. Look, it's not a question of how much damage or that -- you know, of if it's doing damage. It's a question of how much damage is being done.
And as I mentioned, he's already having a problem with consolidating his base.
Now, there is a potential danger in Democrats over-playing their hand. It's not terribly unlike what we saw in 1996 with Bill Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky scandal. Presidents did something wrong. The president broke the law. But if the punishment is too severe and doesn't fit the crime, voters will respond to that. And I think there is a danger of that.
But, you know, Donald Trump's numbers are consistently showing deep reservations with just Republican voters.
And it's showing up at elections on election night, even though it's not showing up in the polls, that's a very significant problem to have for a candidate at this time in the race.
VAUSE: Republicans, though, they've rallied around the former president, including House Speaker Mike Johnson, who said this. "It's a shameful day in American history," adding, "President Trump will rightfully appeal this absurd victory, and he will win."
Arizona Senate candidate Kari Lake said, "Americans just witnessed the most egregious example of election interference and an outright mockery of the rule of law" -- get this -- "in the 246-year history of our republic." She goes on, "The entire process, right down to the verdict itself, has been nothing but a shameful political stunt."
[00:40:00]
OK. Putting aside ethical and moral considerations here to one side, what's in it for elected and wannabe elected Republicans at this point to speak out against Trump?
MADRID: There's no incentive. They bought the ticket. They are going to have to take the ride. It's not going to be a good one.
I'm trying not to laugh too much, because they -- they've already swallowed the hog half whole. I mean, they've got no choice. They're about to nominate him as their nominee. He won overwhelmingly in the primaries, because they lacked the courage to stand up and say what we all knew was obvious. And as a result, they're stuck. They're stuck with this anchor.
And a candidate like Kari Lake, who's already double digits down in what should be a very competitive race, is going to be sinking even faster.
So this -- the great irony here is, when the map so benefits the Republicans in the Senate, they could actually lose votes in the Senate heading into the 2024 election cycle. It's remarkable how such a lack of self-awareness has afflicted the Republican Party.
But they've already made their decision. They're stuck with him. There's nothing they could do anymore.
VAUSE: We've heard from the Biden campaign on X, tweeting out a -- appeal for fundraising donations, saying, "There's only one way to keep Donald Trump out of the Oval Office: at the ballot box. Donate to our campaign today."
Overall, Democrats sort of struggled about how best to respond to Trump's criminal trials.
The election is, what, now 157 days away. It seems time is a luxury they do not have here. They have yet to come up with an effective message which seems to be missing so far.
MADRID: Well, the best message is Donald Trump. I actually believe that Donald Trump being in the courtroom without cameras has helped Donald Trump. The more he's in the limelight like this, his polling numbers drop, and that's not atypical of campaigns when both candidates have remarkably high negatives. And that's the case here.
The candidate that is the most in the spotlight is going to be doing the worst off. The greatest punishment that could be handed down to Donald Trump is actually to let him go out on the campaign stump and remind American voters why they rejected him and why he barely won the first time, even though he lost the popular vote.
His negatives are so high the best thing they can do is allow him out, highlight him, and let him be soundly rejected by the American public.
VAUSE: As Bonaparte (ph) said, "When your enemy is committing suicide, let them." Mike Madrid in Sacramento, California. Sir, thank you so much for
being with us.
MADRID: Thanks for having me.
VAUSE: Still ahead this hour, legendary Watergate journalist Bob Woodward on the Donald Trump guilty verdict.
You're watching CNN NEWSROOM all around the world.
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VAUSE: Welcome back. More now on our breaking news this hour. Former U.S. President Donald Trump is now a convicted felon.
A New York jury deliberated for nearly 12 hours over two days before finding Trump guilty on all 34 counts of falsifying business records in his hush money trial.
This all happened on Thursday, and it's the first time in U.S. history a former president has been convicted of a crime, a criminal crime. Trump is also the first nominee of a major party to be convicted in the middle of a campaign for the White House.
[00:45:04]
Sentencing is now set for July 11, just days before the Republican National Convention, which is in Milwaukee this year.
And if he wins the election in November, Trump will be the first sitting president in history to be a convicted felon. Here's what a former Trump lawyer had to say about Trump's potential sentence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TY COBB, EX-TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: A jail term is not likely, but it's certainly possible.
But what does that mean? I mean, if he is sentenced to jail, he wouldn't serve that sentence, with -- in all likelihood, until after the after -- after the appeals have run, which would be a year to 18 months or maybe more.
And if he -- if he is elected, it would be four years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Well, after the verdict was announced, veteran American journalist Bob Woodward of Watergate fame spoke with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, and they discussed the trial, the guilty verdict, and the impact both could have on U.S. politics in the coming months.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOB WOODWARD, JOURNALIST: First of all, maybe the country's not as divided as we think it is, that this jury was able to quite quickly reach a consensus. And the consensus is that Donald Trump is a felon.
And that changes politics. That changes the whole understanding of Trump in the presidential election that's going on. So this is one of these moments that changes history and defines history.
Now, we're going to have to hear from what the jurors said and how they did this so quickly.
But I was quite surprised. I expected there would be some very vocal Trump supporters on that jury and would kind of have another point of view here.
But there's been one point of view, and that is that Donald Trump is a felon. That's something -- I think it will go through an appeal process. We'll hear from the jurors.
But this is a kind of raw truth that doesn't happen that often in politics.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Certainly doesn't. Bob, you interviewed Trump on several occasions while he was president of the United States. Do you think he fully understands the gravity of this situation?
WOODWARD: Well, I think he does. I think he will watch the coverage, and his lawyers will tell him that this is bad news. But -- but Trump does. And I spent a year talking to him nine hours. He could call me at any time. I could call him at any time. This was 2020, the last year of his presidency.
And he does -- you know, he -- we realize this. He's created a political cult. But I think the cult members have to kind of take a moment to pause and say, how did these people reach this conclusion that our guy is a felon?
BLITZER: Give us your sense --
WOODWARD: Sure.
BLITZER: The sentencing is going to happen in July just before the Republican convention. He's the presumptive Republican nominee. He can run for president. He can even serve for president even as a convicted felon.
Give us a sense of what this means for the country right now.
WOODWARD: Well, only in America would we have this occurring before our eyes, but it's -- it is occurring.
Again, I go back to its significance. Donald Trump was somebody who's been accused. He is now a convicted felon. Now, it's a jury in New York. We're going to hear what the jurors say and how they reached this unanimous conclusion.
You know, it's so -- we live our own lives. There aren't many unanimous conclusions on anything. I have, quite frankly, thought there would be a debate, that this might take days. It did not take days. I think that's very significant.
But we're going to have to hear how they reach this conclusion.
BLITZER: Very quickly, before I let you go, Bob --
WOODWARD: In the legal world, I'm just curious. Just curious how you compare this current crisis in the United States right now with what happened when you were reporting for "The Washington Post" during Watergate that led to the forced resignation of a sitting president of the United States.
WOODWARD: Well, that took a couple of years from the initial reporting that Carl Bernstein and I did. But -- but -- but this is -- this is quick. This is a legal and political declaration. I think it goes down in the history books.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[00:50:07]
VAUSE: Well, one of the prosecution's star witnesses was adult film star Stormy Daniels. Trump's lawyers tried and failed to destroy her credibility during her testimony.
When we come back, details on her emotional reaction to Donald Trump's 34 guilty verdicts.
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[00:52:57]
VAUSE: Welcome back, everyone. Former U.S. President Donald Trump is now a convicted felon after a jury in New York found him guilty on all 34 felony counts in his hush money trial.
Jurors took nearly 12 hours to reach their verdict. Trump's sentencing now set for July 11. He could get probation or maybe a maximum of 20 years behind bars. That does seem likely, though.
His legal team is now planning to appeal.
The presidential candidate was convicted of falsifying business records to cover up a hush money payment to adult film star Stormy Daniels before the 2016 election. And Stormy Daniels's testimony was key to Trump's conviction.
She took to the witness stand, her first face-to-face encounter with Trump since 2007, and she detailed the lurid details of her 2006 sexual encounter.
The former U.S. president denied the claims.
Daniels' lawyer spoke with CNN's Anderson Cooper about her reaction to Trump's conviction.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CLARK BREWSTER, ATTORNEY FOR STORMY DANIELS: She was actually pretty emotional. Really, a lot of mixed emotions. Obviously, it's a sad time for, you know, anyone to have a conviction like this.
I mean, it's momentous to the country. So really kind of hit her hard.
But on the other hand, she knows how hard the jurors worked and -- and their oath that they took. And we have to respect that no man is above the law. And we have to respect this system.
But, you know, she has empathy. And -- but she also did her duty and came to court and -- and told the truth and was exposed to cross- examination. And the jurors did their work.
COOPER: Do you know -- does she -- had -- did she express anything about what she would like to see for sentencing?
BREWSTER: No. We've not really discussed that. It'll be interesting. I think the judge probably knows this case better than anyone at this time, and we repose trust in his judgment as to what would be a fair sentence in this matter.
You know, we -- you know, there's so many emotions that run through this. The emotions of the fear that she expresses. I told you about in the previous meetings about somebody doing harm to her and then all of the anxiety about getting on the stand and facing two days of examination.
But this is the culmination, and this is how our system works. You get a trial, and people take oath to apply goodwill and -- and proper analysis in the law to the facts. And they returned a verdict.
You could feel in that courtroom this is a very diligent, informed jury. And you have to respect that and compliment them on their work.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Keep in mind, this is just one of four criminal trials facing Donald Trump, but the guilty verdict in New York makes him the first former U.S. president ever convicted of a felony crime.
And now CNN's Brian Todd reports on how this trial compares to other so-called trials of the century.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: There is no crime.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former President Donald Trump's hush money trial is historic and unprecedented.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In what's being called the trial of the century.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the trial of the century.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But just might be the trial of the century. TODD (voice-over): There have been other trials that have gripped the nation's attention, many of them in the last century. Some analysts say for media coverage, there's one trial that rivals Trump's.
GENE ROSSI, FORMER U.S. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: The O.J. trial is the only case that compares to the sensationalism of this case.
TODD (voice-over): The former football star accused of murdering his ex-wife, Nicole, and Ronald Goldman. A fallen American icon in court on TV all day, every day for about eight months.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury in the involved, entitle action, find the defendant, oren jaw [SIC] -- Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder.
EISEN: You have two individuals who are viewed in such polarizing terms. In the O.J. case, the polarization was around race. In the Trump case, it's around politics.
But it illuminates a key moment in our life as a nation, to see those stark divisions. That's what makes a trial of a century.
TODD (voice-over): Then there was the impeachment trial of a sitting American president, Bill Clinton, in 1999, Impeached by the House, which had charged him with perjury and obstruction of justice relating to the Monica Lewinsky investigation, Clinton was acquitted by the Senate.
America had been introduced to the concept of a gut-wrenching trial of the century more than 60 years earlier. In 1932, the 20-month-old son of legendary aviator Charles Lindbergh was kidnapped from the family home in New Jersey, the child's body found more than two months later.
ROSSI: The Lindbergh case is -- is a historical trial, because obviously, Lindbergh had a -- had a heroes' following. He crossed the Atlantic. So that had all the drama.
TODD (voice-over): After a more than two-year investigation, a German immigrant carpenter named Bruno Richard Hauptmann was arrested for the Lindbergh baby's murder. Hauptmann professed his innocence until the moment he was executed, his guilt still debated to this day.
It's their purely compelling nature, analysts say, that's made Americans become glued to all these trials: from Hauptmann to O.J., to Clinton, to Trump.
EISEN: Every trial of the century must capture the zeitgeist, the moment that we're in.
TODD (voice-over): The analysts we spoke to said one of the strongest common threads with all these trials: a heavily anticipated verdict.
TODD: And many of us will remember where we were and what we were doing when it came down.
(END VIDEOTAPE) VAUSE: Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause. Please stay with us. My friend and colleague, Michael Holmes, will have more on our special CNN coverage after a very short break. See you next week. Have a good weekend.
There's my friend and colleague Michael Holmes right there! How are you doing?
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