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Donald Trump Becomes 1st U.S. President Tried And Convicted Of Crimes; Trump Guilty on All 34 Felony Counts, Sentencing July 11; Trump Conviction's Place in History; Swing State Voters React to Historic Trump Felony Verdict; Trump is First Former U.S. President Convicted of a Crime. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired May 31, 2024 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome everyone. I'm Michael Holmes. Appreciate your company. A defiant Donald Trump has made history as the first former U.S. president to become a convicted felon while raising the possibility he could also become the first convict to win the White House.
After two days of deliberation a Manhattan jury found Trump guilty on all 34 counts of falsifying business records to cover up a hush money payment to a porn star ahead of the 2016 election sentencing set for July 11. And he could get up to 20 years behind bars, or perhaps just probation.
However, the Trump team is all but certain to appeal all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary. Trump meanwhile will stay out of jail without bond for now, source saying that he's in good spirits and ready to fight.
His opponents and supporters have been rallying outside Trump Tower in New York, Trump expected to deliver remarks there in the coming day. But here's some of what he had to say after the verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: This was a rigged disgraceful trial, that the real verdict is going to be November 5th by the people. And they know what happened here and everybody knows what happened here. You have a source backed DA and the whole thing. We didn't do anything wrong. I'm a very innocent man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Meanwhile, the Manhattan district attorney acknowledged the historic nature of the case and the conviction and he thanked the jury for the careful attention it paid to the evidence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALVIN BRAGG, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I did my job. Our job is to follow the facts and the law without fear or favor. And that's exactly what we did here. I did my job. We did our job. Many voices out there. The only voice that matters is the voice of the jury. And the jury has spoken.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: All right. A closer look now at how the court proceedings played out on Thursday, the jury of seven men and five women deliberated for nearly 12 hours. And as the verdict was read people inside the courtroom say Trump just stared straight ahead. His face red, his arms crossed, occasionally glancing at the jury as they were polled. Afterwards, he walked out and he grabbed his son's Eric's hand.
CNN spoke with key witness Stormy Daniels on the phone after the verdict. She said she was emotional and in disbelief. But Trump remains a free man, as we said released without bail and he can run for president as a felon. By the way. Trump of course says he will appeal but his track record in the courts is one of a loser. He and his organization have lost just about every case.
[01:05:02]
A jury found Trump is liable for sexually abusing writer E. Jean Carroll inside a department store dressing room in the 1990s. Trump was fined $355 million for fraudulently inflating the values of his properties.
And the Trump Organization was found guilty on multiple charges of criminal tax fraud and falsifying business records.
David Weinstein is a former state and federal prosecutor. He joins me now. David, good to see you. First of all, just your reaction to the verdicts. What did you think?
DAVID WEINSTEIN, FORMER STATE AND FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, from my position, it was either going to be all guilty or all not guilty. And the fact that it came back so quickly led me to believe that it was going to be all guilty. And it means that these 12 jurors thought that the prosecution did their job. They corroborated the evidence and prove their case.
HOLMES: Yes. Sentencing July 11. Now we look we know there's going to be an appeal, he would stay free until those are all exhausted. We know all of that. But in terms of sentencing, if it were you and me and not presidential candidate Trump, would there be prison in our futures from guilty verdicts such as these or perhaps not?
WEINSTEIN: Well, Michael, it depends how old you and I are. That's one of the factors that's being considered. You're dealing with an individual who is at the older edge of the age spectrum. It is a financial crime, so to speak, he's got no prior criminal history. These are all factors a judge is going to consider. But the fact of the matter is, it's 34 counts of guilty. This is
activity that's gone on for an extended period of time for a number of years, and that he was involved in at the heart of it, and that influenced the last presidential election.
So, adding all of those factors together for an individual like that, I think that prison is something that should be considered, although I doubt that it's going to be imposed.
HOLMES: Yes. Well, when it comes to the jury, by finding Trump guilty, on all counts, does that when you look at the counts, does that mean that the jury has judged that what he engaged in, in trying to win the presidency was fraudulent? Did they have to go down that path to get to their verdicts?
WEINSTEIN: They didn't have to go quite that far. What they were required to do and what they did, presuming they follow the instructions, which it appears that they did was fine that he had falsified these records and that in doing so he was covering up some other crime.
Now, whether or not they decided it was the crime of influencing the election, unlawful campaign contributions, or something else that was up to them. We didn't get a box on the verdict form for that. But they were instructed. They had to find something along those lines.
HOLMES: Interesting. Interesting. As we said that, you know, the on appeal is certain, of course, from your observation of the trial, what grounds might there be? What sorts of grounds will Trump's legal team have been looking at as the trial went on?
WEINSTEIN: Well, they're going to start at the beginning, they've asked for a change of venue that was denied. I don't think that's their best argument. Quite frankly, I think that's their worst argument, because everyone knew about this case or changing venue wasn't going to affect anything.
But they're going to attack the jury instructions, any modifications that the judge gave beyond standard instructions, some of the restraint that he put on them in terms of questions they could ask during cross-examination of certain witnesses. Certainly the fact that he would not allow them to call what they said was an expert on campaign financing. And those are some of the issues they objected a variety of other times they moved for a mistrial during Stormy Daniels testimony.
So they've preserved enough errors there. The big question is, was the evidence so overwhelming that it didn't really matter what the errors were that were committed that the conviction would still stand?
HOLMES: Right, right. And of course, he can appeal and he's done this in his whole life, he can appeal and appeal and appeal to multiple courts all the way to the Supreme Court, couldn't he which could take how long months? Years?
WEINSTEIN: Well, it's certainly going to take months. Look, his first two appeals are going to be to the Courts of Appeals in New York State, the first level Court of Appeals, and then the second level Court of Appeals. From there, he can ask the Supreme Court to review it if it's upheld by both of those courts, but they don't have to grant that request. They can deny it.
And then if his conviction is upheld by the appeals courts in New York, his conviction stance, but none of that is going to happen instantaneously. I know we've seen some expedited appeals, but the process is it's going to be set out here. It's going to take at least through the end of this year, and certainly after the general election.
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HOLMES: We heard we heard Trump afterwards again calling the trial rigged, the judge conflicted and, and so on. But some of these jurors followed Trump on True Social. There were two lawyers on the jury. How significant is that this jury of Trump's peers were unanimous on all 34 charges, all of them?
WEINSTEIN: Well, again, they had to be unanimous on even one of the counts. But the fact of the matter is, it -- once they found that first count that he was guilty, it was hard to believe that they weren't going to find it on all 34. But because it was so interconnected, as one piece of this deception that was being engaged in and what's significant about that is that he was given his day in court, he was allowed to cross-examine these witnesses, he could have had an opportunity to testify if he wanted to, he chose not to do so he could have put on more than the two witnesses. He did.
And so he was given his day and these 12 people, they decided to follow the law. And they were a jury of his peers. And they were selected. They were questioned by the lawyers. And so he got his due process, whether he wants to admit it or not.
HOLMES: Yes, yes, yes, he called a political but it was a jury of peers. And it also came from a grand jury, which was his peers as well. I wanted us going back to the sentencing and what other factors might play into that process?
I mean, does having three other open felony indictments in three jurisdictions in state and federal courts play into consideration being held in contempt? 10 times I think it was in this case, does that play in and then obviously, from his complaint, his comments afterwards, there's no remorse being shown.
WEINSTEIN: There's zero remorse, no contrition, no acceptance of the verdict. Look, he doesn't have to admit that he committed the crimes, but he certainly needs to be contrite and show some sort of respect for the court. So that's going to work against him. The contempt or rulings against him shows his disrespect for the law in the system. And that'll factor into punishment.
But those other three open cases, he's presumed innocent until proven guilty, and the fact that you have been charged that there's an indictment and charges pending, that doesn't actually factor in what would factor in is a conviction.
For example, if this conviction stands on appeal, and then he goes to trial, and one of those three remaining cases, when it comes sentencing time, he will be a convicted felon, and he will now have a prior conviction. And that's something that the next judge can consider.
HOLMES: Wow, fascinating analysis. David Weinstein, thank you so much, really appreciate it.
WEINSTEIN: You're welcome, Michael.
HOLMES: Now as you would expect reaction to the verdict has been split along party lines. President Biden calling attention to the November election in a social media post writing, the only way to keep Donald Trump out of the Oval Office is at the ballot box. And the Biden campaign issuing a statement saying the verdict shows quote, no one is above the law.
Trump used the verdict to continue to paint himself as the victim. On his website he proclaimed himself a political prisoner and repeated what he said outside the courtroom that he had done nothing wrong.
House Republican Tom Emmer echoed Trump's rants writing on X, quote, Democrats just pulled off the biggest sham in U.S. history. The American people won't forget this corrupt two-tiered system of justice, and we'll issue the real verdict at the ballot box in November.
Meanwhile, Democrat Adam Schiff, who led the first Trump impeachment trial praise the verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADAM SCHIFF, U.S. HOUSE DEMOCRAT: This is an affirmation that the rule of law works that it can be applied to everyone including a former president. Here you have 12 ordinary citizens sitting in judgment of a former president evaluating the evidence from the notes to the judge, they took their responsibilities very seriously went through the evidence carefully, went through the jury instructions carefully and reached a verdict beyond a reasonable doubt. Donald Trump is a convicted felon now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell put out a brief statement saying these charges should never been brought in the first place. I expect the conviction to be overturned on appeal.
Stormy Daniels testimony was of course key to Trump's conviction she took to the witness stand to detail her alleged 2006 sexual encounter with him. Trump had denied the claims. Daniel's lawyer spoke with CNN's Anderson Cooper about her reaction to the verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CLARK BREWSTER, ATTORNEY FOR STORMY DANIELS: She was actually pretty emotional. Really a lot of have mixed emotions. Obviously it's a sad time for anyone to have, you know, have conviction like this. I mean, it's momentous to the country. So it really kind of hit her hard.
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But on the other hand, she knows how hard the jurors worked and -- and their oath that they took, and we have to respect that no man is above the law, and we have to respect the system. But, you know, she has empathy. And but she also did her duty and came to court and, and told the truth and was exposed to cross examination, and the jurors did their work.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you know -- does she had did she express anything about what she would like to see for sentencing?
BREWSTER: No, we've not really discussed that. It'll be interesting. I think the judge probably knows this case better than anyone at this time. And we're opposed trust in his judgment as to what would be a fair sentence in this matter. You know, we, you know, there's so many emotions that run through this, the emotions of the fear that she expressed, as I told you about in the previous meetings about somebody doing harm to her, and then all of the anxiety about getting on the stand and facing two days of examination. But this is the culmination. And this is how our system works.
You get a trial and people take oath to apply goodwill and proper analysis of the law to the facts, and they returned a verdict. You could feel in that courtroom this is a very diligent, informed jury. And you have to respect that and compliment them on their work.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Much more to come on this historic verdict, including how it will affect the race for the White House and whether Trump can use the conviction to his advantage. We'll be right back.
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HOLMES: And bringing you up to speed now on our breaking news for the first time in U.S. history of former President has become a convicted felon. Donald Trump was found guilty on all 34 counts in his hush money trial in New York on Thursday. He was charged with falsifying business records to cover up payments to porn star Stormy Daniels before the 2016 election to keep quiet about their alleged affair.
The sentencing scheduled for July the 11th. He could face anything from probation to up to 20 years in prison. The latter is not likely. Trump will remain out of jail for now and he can still run for president.
Ron Brownstein is CNN senior political analyst and senior editor at The Atlantic. He's joining me now from Los Angeles. So it's good to see you, Ron. There have been polls suggesting the verdict wouldn't have much impact on the minds of voters, that they're largely locked in some Trump voters might change their thinking but is that enough to move the political needle?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think we have to be cautious about, you know, unequivocal assertions. I mean, this isn't a unprecedented situation.
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And my guess is whatever impact it's going to have, will be a slow burn, not something that is immediately apparent. But I think my initial instinct is that it will weaken Trump. But it won't necessarily strengthen Biden. And both things have to happen in order to have the kind of fundamental change in the race that you're talking about.
I do think that over time that there will be Americans reluctant, hesitant about making a convicted felon, the chief law enforcement officer and Commander in Chief. But many of those same voters who will feel that hesitation are, you know, deeply discontented over Biden's performance, questioning whether he can do the job for four more years.
And my experience in covering presidential politics have been when people are unhappy with the status quo, they eventually find a way to rationalize voting for change. So I think this does create, I think, clear, I think risks for Trump, but Biden ultimately will have to improve his position as well, in order to take advantage of it.
HOLMES: Yes, there's been a lot of reporting that team Trump was ready for a guilty verdict and working on how to spin it, even milk it politically. How do you expect that to unfold? I mean, there was a fundraising email, I think it was within minutes of the verdicts.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Look, we've seen this for, you know, for really for throughout Trump's presidency is that he is a victim of what Joe McCarthy called a conspiracy, so vast, and they're really going after me because they're trying to silence you. And you know, there's an audience for that.
And the Republican Party and the audience for that among Republican voters, by the way, you know, has produced this really remarkable and ominous, a spectacle of the broad range of Republicans from Mike Johnson to Susan Collins, unequivocally condemning this, and basically suggesting that not only were New York prosecutors and a judge biased against Trump, but so were ordinary citizens.
I mean, this is a very clear signal I think, Michael, that if Trump is reelected, there's essentially nothing he can do that will cause Republicans to resist and even as much as they did, in the first term, they are they are all in.
But again, that will be his argument that I'm being persecuted on your behalf. I'm not sure that really works with, you know, the voters that he has to worry about the most, which are essentially white collar, Nikki Haley, voters and blue collar younger black and Latino men, I don't see this helping him with them. But again, that's not necessarily enough to move them toward voting for Joe Biden, about whom they also have very significant concerns.
HOLMES: But would having three other open felony indictments in, you know, three jurisdictions in state and federal courts, will that play into voter minds even if they're not adjudicated before the election? Is that a potential cumulative effect?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think we are seeing the effect and people ask me all the time, why isn't this hurting Trump? Or why isn't that hurting Trump? Joe Biden's approval rating is 38, or 39 percent. And they are roughly even in the national polling between Biden and Trump. That's extraordinary. Presidents don't run nine, seven, eight, nine, 10 points ahead of their approval rating in the race. And that is a reflection of the fact that there are millions of voters who are saying, as we saw in 2022, that they are dissatisfied with Biden discontented about the economy, and they will still reject Trump or the Trump style alternative because they view those as an unacceptable, you know, alternative.
Biden's problem is that there is not an infinite pool of those people. I think this will make the pool of those people larger. But ultimately, I think he has to get his own standing up a little higher as well. And that is the challenge as inflation persists. Interest rates don't come down Gaza and Ukraine grind on and so forth.
HOLMES: Yes. Yes, I bet particularly with young people. I mean, I know from my own son's cohort, they're not enjoying Biden's policies on Gaza, that's for sure. And there's a lot of pushback in that generation.
You mentioned the, the sort of fulsome and undying GOP support. The wagons are circled there defending Trump. There was one Republican who simply asked people to respect the verdict, whatever it was, that was Senate candidate, Larry Hogan, and Donald Trump's campaign manager responded almost immediately saying Hogan had, quote, just ended his campaign.
That says a lot about the power of Trump over the Republicans, doesn't it?
BROWNSTEIN: It does. And as I said, I think there are two big implications of this Republican reaction. The first is, as I said, and as LaCivita (ph) tweet shows that there is going to be virtually no resistance, no matter what he does, if he is reelected. I mean, you when we saw Marco Rubio, who had been part of the bipartisan immigration reform in 2013 endorse mass deportation with internment camps.
[01:25:05]
That gave you an idea, this gives you an even clearer idea.
The other thing that I think is even in some ways more ominous, is that we are seeing so many Republicans say that what did you expect not only is the prosecutor bias, not only is the judge biased, but basically, a blue jury should not -- during a blue jurisdiction should not be rendering judgment on Trump. It's very similar to what we saw in Texas when the Governor Greg Abbott immediately said he was going to pardon someone who killed the Black Lives Matter protester --
HOLMES: Yes.
BROWNSTEIN: -- and was convicted in the blue County, Travis County. It's a form of soft secession to say that only Republican jurisdictions are fit to render judgment on the actions of Republican causes, or candidates. And it is -- this Republican reaction to sweepingly condemning the idea that ordinary citizens in New York can fairly judge the evidence that was before them, I think, is a very ominous signal for the future of the country, as is the willingness to countenance almost whatever Trump does.
HOLMES: You mentioned earlier about the voters and saying that, you know, there is a point where voters just want change, but when it comes to trumpet, it's not change, it's going to be another four years of a guy they know well, you know.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
HOLMES: And for literally years now, and we've talked about this for years, he said and done things that would be career enders, political suicide, for anyone else, but he survives, and he's surviving this politically, and he might continue to.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
HOLMES: Why is that?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think, you know, there is a portion -- there is a big portion of the society that basically buys into his argument that there was a -- America was great at some point in the past, and we have to restore the kind of social hierarchies that produced that. That as we have seen in two elections is not a majority. And as we saw in 2020, and really in the key swing states in 2022, it is not enough by itself to win the electoral college.
I mean, the other piece of it are voters who are I think, making a retrospective comparison and basically saying that whatever else they think about Donald Trump life was more affordable. The cost of living was more containable when he was president and, you know, that combination is what is put him in a stronger position.
I do think that the hesitation about interesting Trump with power is allowing Biden to stay in a race where his approval rating has meant almost certain doom for previous incumbents who had been in a situation like Jimmy Carter, or George H.W. Bush. The problem is, as I say, there's not an infinite pool of voters who will say that Biden is doing a bad job, but I cannot go to Trump. The analogy I often used, I've used to you is that, you know, Donald Trump's problems are dropping a 17 foot ladder toward Joe Biden, this may make it an 18 or 19 foot ladder toward Joe Biden.
But at the moment, Joe Biden is standing in a 20 foot hole.
HOLMES: Yes. BROWNSTEIN: And that's kind of where the race is, you know, in a single image. He has to improve his own situation. But if he does, I do think that there are, you know, there still are significant doubts about Trump's fitness for President. Right now, those are being overshadowed by the belief that life was more affordable when he was president last and will be again, I think --
HOLMES: Whether that's true or not.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, well, it was true. It's literally true to this point. Sounds so true going forward. I mean, if you look at his agenda on tariffs and mass deportation and tax cuts, there are a lot of economists who worry that he his agenda is more inflationary look going forward than Biden's as a piece I will have weekend talks about. But, you know, I think Biden has to resolve some of the doubts about himself in order for these concerns about Trump to have their full potential political impact.
HOLMES: Great analysis. As always, that's what we expect from you, Ron Brownstein. Thanks so much. Good to see you.
BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having Michael.
HOLMES: Still to come. Trump's attorney Todd Blanche, is already planning to quote vigorously fight the verdict. He outlines his appeal arguments for us when we come back.
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[01:31:42]
HOLMES: Donald Trump vowing to fight the 34 guilty verdicts in his hush money trial. Verdicts that made him the first former president in U.S. history to become a convicted felon.
Trump was stone-faced with a frown, not visibly reacting as that Manhattan jury delivered its verdict on Thursday. Guilty on all counts of falsifying business records in a hush money scheme to silence an adult film star over an alleged affair.
All part of what prosecutors say was an illegal conspiracy to undermine the integrity of the 2016 presidential election.
The former president and now convicted felon called the jury's decision a disgrace and said, quote, "The real verdict will come during the presidential election, November 5."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have a country that's a big trouble. But this was a rigged decision right from day one with a conflicted judge who should have never been allowed to try this case, never. And we will fight for our constitution.
This is (INAUDIBLE). Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: the Manhattan district attorney acknowledged the historic nature of the case, but would not say whether he will seek jail time for Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALVIN BRAGG, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Today, we have the most important voice of all and that's the voice of the jurors. They have spoken.
Donald J. Trump has been convicted of 34 counts of falsifying business records.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Donald Trump's attorney, Todd Blanche, has outlined some of his appeal arguments already. He told my colleague Kaitlan Collins that the jury was biased against Trump and the trial took place in an unfair location.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD BLANCHE, LEAD ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: I very much believe that the jury -- the jury should have found president Trump not guilty. I mean, very -- in my soul, I believe that and I believed it for a year. I mean I left -- I left my job to do what I did the past six weeks.
And my conviction around what happened today and what I believe the facts show remains the same.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: I know you disagree with the outcome, obviously. And do you accept that he did have his day in court. And it was a jury of his peers that made this decision.
BLANCHE: Well no. Not at all.
COLLINS: Why not?
BLANCHE: No. I mean look, I think -- and this is nothing that we haven't said repeatedly. We were indicted for conduct that happened in 2015, '16, '17 in a jurisdiction that that it was very hard for us to get a fair trial, Kaitlan.
I mean -- I know the district attorney has said repeatedly, said it today. This is a bread-and-butter case. We do this all the time.
That is not true. It's just not true. It may be that they bring these types of charges regularly, business records charges, but you cannot find another case in the Manhattan district attorney's in the history of that office where they did what they did here, which is charged charge somebody for conduct that was 7 -- 8 years old, somebody's personal records, right. Not corporate records it's personal records.
[01:34:44] BLANCHE: So this is not I don't think -- I think its naive to say that this is like any other case that we do. What we did in this case is what we do all the time. No.
And maybe it's ok. I mean, they think its ok they did it.
COLLINS: Because I think that the response to that would be well it's also not every day that someone running for president reimburses his attorney who paid off a woman to keep her silent.
And you know, when you say about getting a fair jury, this is where Donald Trump -- I mean, you know New York well. This is where Donald Trump chose to have his businesses and spent decades of his life until just recently.
I mean, that's why the case is here. I think some people would say well, that's ridiculous that a jury couldn't put their beliefs aside.
You just talked to how hard they worked in this case. Don't you think that they put their political beliefs or biases or stereotypes aside to make a fair decision here?
BLANCHE: I don't know what they did or didn't do, but listen, Kaitlan. It matters, right. Like when 100 -- we did it in groups of about 100 when we picked that jury, half the jury just walked out when invited to by the judge, if they couldn't be fair and impartial.
So imagine if you're -- if you're -- if you're standing before a group of your peers, right? That's what a jury system is supposed to be. So you're standing for a group of your peers and half of them walk out before a single question is asked, just because they have an opinion of you that so strong they can't be fair and impartial.
COLLINS: But this 12, to be fair, did not well.
BLANCHE: They did not, of course, but that's not really the point. The point isn't that 50 stayed? The point is that its telling how many just walked out.
And also the fact that President Trump did business in New York. That's not the law. The law doesn't say, well tough luck if that's where you do business, then that's where you're going to be charged.
COLLINS: But he built his business here. and he resided here. And I guess if you think, you know, if you talked about the testimony and when this happened well, why didn't you at the cross-examination of these witnesses or what you put forward your defense, why didn't that work? Why did it still lead to this outcome.
BLANCHE: Well, that's a great question.
If you know the answer to that, tell me. I mean, look, I don't -- I think that at the end of the day, I do think it comes to something that we talked about a lot of times in our profession where there's a bias that you have that you can't get past. I mean you say that this is where he built his business. That's true. Every single person in that jury, knew Donald Trump either as president, as candidate, from "The Apprentice". And so I don't accept that this was a fair -- this was a fair place to try President Trump.
COLLINS: That's what you're going -- what's your main argument going to be in your appeal?
BLANCHE: Look, I think we have -- I think there were a lot, that is certainly an argument. I think the timing of this trial and was really unfair to President Trump.
There's so much publicity around the witnesses and around leading up to the trial that it just -- our system of justice isn't supposed to be a system where every person that walks in the courtroom knows about the case.
I mean, it sounds -- it sounds like --
COLLINS: It's one of those cases where you can't avoid it. I mean no matter what jurisdiction he's tried in everyone knows Donald Trump.
BLANCHE: The law doesn't say, but if you can't avoid it, tough luck, right? That's not what the law says. The law says that a person is entitled to a fair trial in front of a jury of their peers.
And we just think that because of everything around the leadup this trial, it made it very difficult for the jury to evaluate the evidence kind of independent of what they knew coming in.
And we knew that and that's not something that we -- I haven't -- we've been screaming up from the rooftops.
COLLINS: Let's talk about, you said a few of the arguments on the appeal. When do you plan to file your appeal?
BLANCHE: Well, there's a lot of -- look, this is one step in the process, right? So we have motions due in a couple of weeks in front of Judge Merchan which we're going to vigorously fight and restate a lot of what I'm saying to you tonight and other things that happened during the trial that we think just made the trial unfair, including the testimony of Miss Daniels.
If that is not successful then as soon as we can appeal, we will in the process in New York because there's a sentencing and then -- and then -- and then we appeal from there.
COLLINS: District Attorney Bragg tonight did not directly say whether or not they are going to seek jail time for Donald Trump. Do you expect that he will?
BLANCHE: I have no idea. Look, there's a system in place that -- where you rely on precedent and somebody like President Trump should never, never face a jail sentence based on this conduct.
And it would just kind of confirm what we've been saying all along and a lot of people say that was wrong and that were missing. We're missing key pieces but if, if, other 77-year-old first-time offenders would never be sent to prison for this conduct.
COLLINS: Judge Merchan will make that decision.
BLANCHE: Correct. That's right.
COLLINS: Do you do you think the judge was fair throughout this case?
BLANCHE: I think that there were -- there were times when we very much disagreed with what the decisions Judge Merchan made. I think there were times when we certainly appreciated that he was making decisions, you know, weighing both sides and making decisions based upon that.
[01:39:51]
BLANCHE: But at the end of the day, there were key decisions made before the trial started and during the trial that I don't want to use fair or unfair, but that we think were not consistent with the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Well, while Trump's defense attorney Todd Blanche is already outlining his appeal arguments Michael Cohen, Trump's former attorney and star witness for the prosecution believes Blanche will be fired soon because he lost.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER FIXER FOR DONALD TRUMP: I don't think if you probably ask Todd whether this is the way he really wanted to run this defense, I can assure you he would say no.
But it's not -- it was never his call. It was Donald's call. And despite now that he lost I'm sure we're not going to see much of him anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, keep in mind the hush money trial was just one of the four criminal indictments against Trump. All of the other ones, though, are in legal limbo.
Donald Trump, the first former us president in history to become a convicted felon. When we come back, the journalist to expose the Watergate scandal offer their perspective.
Stay with us.
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HOLMES: More on hour top story now.
For the first time in U.S. history, former president Donald Trump has been convicted of a felony. A jury of New Yorkers deliberated for nearly 12 hours before finding Trump guilty on every one of 34 counts of falsifying business records in his hush money trial. Sentencing is set for July 11.
CNN's Anderson Cooper spoke with one of the attorneys for star witness and former Trump lawyer, Michael Cohen about whether her client feels vindicated after Donald Trump's guilty verdict.
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DANYA PERRY, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL COHEN: 100 percent. There's no other way to read that verdict. And it was -- it was unanimous, of course. It was quickly rendered and it was guilty on all counts.
So there was seemingly no hesitation at all about his testimony. And I think that's exactly as it should be.
I've known Michael for four years, but he's been talking about this, (INAUDIBLE) and six years and it has always been a thing (ph)for, it has always been consistent. It has always made sense. And it was corroborated as you've said.
So the jury clearly had absolutely no trouble believing him, nor should they have.
So there was a lot of (INAUDIBLE) -- and a lot of name-calling and finger-pointing but at the end of the day, the jury saw a straight, clear, and quick path. And of course, Michael is feeling gratified by that and vindicated.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Does your client have any thoughts on sentencing? Obviously, he has expressed thoughts previously on what he thinks sentencing should be. He has said he thought that Donald Trump should be I think in an f-ing cage at one point.
[01:44:50]
COOPER: He certainly had said on the stand that he would like to see conviction and would like to see him kind of experience the same things that Michael Cohen experienced of being put behind bars.
Did he express anything about what he would like to see as sentencing based on all these convictions?
PERRY: No. What he `has said is he wanted to see accountability. And that has already happened. Wo whatever happens in July or whenever the sentencing is, if it's adjourned.
That is not something that he's concerned with. Yes, he certainly made statements in dramatic fashion as he often does for entertainment value on his podcast or in interviews.
But that is not at all his focus right now. Not anything he's thinking about.
He is as I said before, he's gratified with a judge's decisions, the judge has ruled down the middle, and the judge will rule at sentencing and that's his province. This was -- today's verdict was the jury's province. The sentencing will be solely the judge's and I don't believe that Michael will have anything to say about.
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HOLMES: Watergate legends, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein have been eyewitnesses to more than five decades of American political history.
And they spoke with Anderson Cooper about how Trump's criminality has outdone the late president Richard Nixon scandal.
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CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's momentous that we have a former president of the United States is a convicted felon in a case in which the facts were evidence.
There is no question that the rule of law has prevailed here, but it still is incendiary in terms of where this country is right now. It's like pouring gasoline on a fire that's already burning.
Trump's response that we've heard already saying that this emanated with President Biden, that he is responsible for this prosecution.
I have to say, I know of no one in the White House, Bob might know of someone who wanted this prosecution to proceed.
That in fact, the view in the White House was that this was not a good idea. That there is a very serious case of January 6th, the incitement of a seditionist riot by the President of the United States.
That's the case that people in the White House would like to see go forward and ought to go forward.
And one thing we ought to think about on this evening when we hear Donald Trump talk about the supposed prejudice of this judge because of his daughter having political opinions and working for Democrats -- let's take a look at Supreme Court Justices, Alito and Thomas, and their conflicts of interest that really raised to a serious level.
We've got to be serious about the rule of law in this country. And that's what all of these events are about.
COOPER: Bob, I mean, you've interviewed the former president at great length over the years. What did you think of the verdict and where we are now?
BOB WOODWARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, I first saw and did not expect a quick verdict. And so I thought, oh, maybe the country is not as divided as I thought.
And then, to be honest, I tuned in to Fox News and it's just another chapter in the political wars. This is not about the law or -- and there are people who may love the verdict, people who hate it, but that's the battleground.
And one thing I think we have to agree with president -- former President Trump on is this is going to be decided on Election Day, November 5th.
It's not going to be decided back and forth. And what has happened here is a little bit of a blip. Frankly, everything's a blip because it all feeds into the narrative of this completely divided country that can't agree on much of anything. And it hopefully will be settled November 5th.
COOPER: Carl, I mean, do you think this conviction changes anything for better or worse about the norms and expectations for presidents in America?
BERNSTEIN: Look, I think Donald Trump has changed every expectation about norms for presidents of the United States of America.
Bob and I reported on Nixon at great length his crimes. He was a criminal president of the United States, as we wrote in the foreword to the 50th anniversary edition of "All the President's Men".
[01:49:46]
BERNSTEIN: Trump has outdone Nixon in terms of criminality, in terms of being a constitutional criminal, in terms of being the first seditious president of the United States.
We could not have dreamed that after Nixon there would be such a president, and the contempt for the rule of law and for the norms and constitutional regular order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: You're watching special coverage of the Trump guilty verdict. It has been a truly historic trial.
But how does it compare with other so-called trials of the century?
We'll be back in 90 seconds.
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HOLMES: Well, as we've been reporting, Donald Trump is now a convicted felon. A jury finding him guilty on all 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial. Thursday's verdict could have major implications for the 2024 presidential race especially in battleground states like Pennsylvania.
Our Danny Freeman is in Bucks County getting voter reactions in what could be a decisive district in President Joe Biden's home state.
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DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as soon as we heard the news of this conviction coming down, we headed to Bucks County in Pennsylvania. It's one of the all-important suburbs of Philadelphia, the Collar Counties as they call it.
And basically, if President Biden wants to win Pennsylvania, he needs to run up the numbers in a county like this in Bucks County.
We spoke to a number of voters, most of the folks that wanted to speak with us on camera. They were glad that former President Trump was convicted, but each of them had different perspectives on this moment in history. Take a listen to what they had to say.
JEFF GREB, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I feel like he's kind of like Teflon. There's been a lot of things attached to him that haven't really stuck, but this is one where they went through the process. You know, we have to trust the courts.
CHRISTINA JAROSZ, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I think everybody needs to abide by the law, and if they're not going to, then they should be -- pay the consequences.
CLAIRE GREEN, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I really hope that people spend time not saying whoopie or gotcha or great or entertainment, but feeling deeply saddened that they knowingly participated in a process in which we elected somebody like this.
FREEMAN: Now, I should say, we also spoke to folks who were much more supportive and sympathetic to former President Trump. I spoke to one woman who said, listen, I'm not necessarily the biggest fan of President Trump, but 34 counts seemed excessive.
So there are a lot of opinions, certainly after this decision came down from the jury, but that's a little taste of what voters in this all-important swing state and this all-important county really had to say about this outcome.
From Bucks County, Pennsylvania -- Danny Freeman, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Well, the guilty verdict for Trump makes him of course, the first former U.S. president ever convicted of a crime.
Some legal analysts comparing his case with others so-called trials of the century. CNN's Brian Todd reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: There is no crime.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Former president Donald Trump's hush money trial is historic and unprecedented.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In what's being called the trial of the century.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the trial is history.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What just might be the trial of the century.
TODD: There have been other trials that have gripped the nation's attention, many of them in the last century. Some analysts say for media coverage, there's one trial that rivals Trump's. [01:54:49]
GENE ROSSI, FORMER U.S. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: The O.J. trial is the only case that compares to the sensationalism of this case.
TODD: The former football star accused of murdering his ex-wife, Nicole and Ronald Goldman. A fallen American icon in court on TV all day, every day for about eight months.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury and the above title action (ph) find the defendant Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder.
NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You have two individuals who are viewed in such polarizing terms. In the O.J. case, the polarization was around race. In the Trump case its around politics.
But it illuminates a key moment in our life as a nation to see those stark divisions, that's what makes a trial of a century.
TODD: Then there was the impeachment trial of a sitting American president, Bill Clinton in 1999, impeached by the House which had charged him with perjury and obstruction of justice relating to the Monica Lewinsky investigation. Clinton was acquitted by the senate.
America had been introduced to the concept of a gut-wrenching trial over the century, more than 60 years earlier. In 1932, the 20-month- old son of legendary aviator Charles Lindbergh was kidnapped from the family home in New Jersey. The child's body found more than two months later.
ROSSI: The Lindbergh case is a historical trial because obviously Lindbergh had a had a hero's following. He crossed the Atlantic. So that had all the drama.
TODD: After a more than two-year investigation, a German immigrant carpenter named Bruno Richard Hauptmann was arrested for the Lindbergh baby's murder. Hauptmann professed his innocence until the moment he was executed. His guilt still debated to this day.
It's their purely compelling nature, analysts say, that's made Americans become glued to all these trials from Hauptmann to O.J., to Clinton, to Trump.
EISEN: Every trial of the century must capture the zeitgeist, the moment that we're in.
TODD: The analysts we spoke to said one of the strongest common threads with all these trials, a heavily-anticipated verdict and many of us will remember where we were and what we were doing when it came down.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Our Brian Todd reporting there.
Thanks for spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes. You can follow me on X and Instagram @HolmesCNN.
Stick around. My friend Kim Brunhuber is up with more on Donald Trump's conviction in the New York hush money trial, next.
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