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CNN's Breaking News Coverage on Donald Trump's Guilty Conviction; Trump Guilty On All 34 Felony Counts, Sentencing July 11. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired May 31, 2024 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[02:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.
KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome to all of you watching us around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber, joining you live from Atlanta with breaking news on the conviction of Donald Trump.
It marks a massive, volatile moment in American and legal history that's unfolding in the midst of a U.S. presidential race. After about 12 hours of deliberations over two days, a New York jury found Trump guilty on all 34 counts of falsifying business records to conceal a hush money payment to former adult film star Stormy Daniels in an effort to influence the 2016 election. Trump has now the distinction of being the first former U.S. president to become a convicted felon.
He's expected to hold a news conference at Trump Tower in the day ahead. After leaving the courthouse, Trump recycled some familiar complaints and blasted the entire legal process areas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: This was a rigged, disgraceful trial. The real verdict is going to be November 5th by the people. And they know what happened here and everybody knows what happened here. You have a sole respect D.A. and the whole thing. We didn't do a thing wrong. I'm a very innocent man. And it's okay. I'm fighting for our country. I'm fighting for our Constitution. I'm fighting for our people. And we'll keep fighting. We'll fight till the end and we'll win. Because our country's gone to hell. We don't have the same country anymore. We have a divided mess.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Now, Trump was able to leave the courthouse as a free man. Sentencing is scheduled for July 11th. His legal team is vowing to appeal, the lead attorney insisting the jury was biased. But the district attorney who brought the case said the verdict proves no one, not even a former U.S. president, is above the law. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALVIN BRAGG, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The 12 everyday jurors vowed to make a decision based on the evidence and the law and the evidence and the law alone. Their deliberations led them to a unanimous conclusion beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant, Donald J. Trump, is guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records in the first degree to conceal a scheme to corrupt the 2016 election.
While this defendant may be unlike any other in American history, we arrived at this trial and ultimately today at this verdict in the same manner as every other case that comes to the courtroom doors by following the facts and the law and doing so without fear or favor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: CNN's Kara Scannell has been covering the hush money trial from the start, and she explains what it was like inside the courtroom as Donald Trump was found guilty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And the mood changed dramatically because the judge came on the bench at 4:15 saying he was going to let the jury leave at 4:30. We hadn't heard from the jury since they went back to deliberate at 11:15 a.m.
As we were waiting for the judge to return, Trump and his lawyers were sitting at the table. They were laughing. They were smiling. It seemed like they expected that this meant no verdict. They were going to go home and come back the next day.
The judge comes back on the bench at 4:36 and he says, I have a note signed by the jury at 4:20. He says they have a verdict.
The entire mood changed. Trump crossed his arms. The room was still. No one was speaking or talking. It was extremely quiet and everyone was just sitting there waiting.
Then the judge came back on the bench. He said that the jury needed 30 minutes to fill out the form. Then they came back. He brought them in. The jurors walked to the seats in the jury box. They didn't look at Donald Trump. They normally don't, but they didn't today either. They went. They sat down in their seats and then the judge asked them, is this true? You have a verdict. The foreman said yes, that they do.
Then the judge's clerk had said to the foreman, going through each of these counts one by one with the foreman saying guilty, guilty 34 times. While the jury is reading the verdict, Trump was sitting in his seat looking straight ahead.
Then after that, the judge had asked, had the clerk asked the jury, did everyone unanimously agree that this was their verdict? The jurors audibly said yes. And then he asked if anybody wanted the jury polled individually. Trump's lawyer, Todd Blanche, said that he did.
[02:04:58] And so the clerk then went through each of the jurors to poll them. At that point, Trump had turned to look at them. And when the jurors answered the questions, most of them were looking directly at the judge.
I saw some look down. None seemed, again, to look at Donald Trump. Then the judge had said to the jurors he wanted to thank them for their service.
He asked them if they could stay behind because he wanted to talk to them individually once he finished up with what the business was still in the courtroom. So that's when the jurors left. He also thanked the alternate jurors. He had them brought into the courtroom and to sit in the front row while the jury was delivering the verdict. I've never seen that. Usually the alternate jurors are excused. Sometimes they're asked to stay on.
But they're not ever brought back in to sit and witness the verdict in the case that they were so diligently paying attention to over the past seven weeks. So after the jury left, then the judge Merchant spoke to Trump's lawyers. They moved for an appeal saying they thought, based on Michael Cohen's testimony that he lied on the stand. The judge rejected that. And then they set the sentencing date for July 11. There'll be some motions due before then.
So then as Donald Trump was leaving the courtroom, he stood up. He had a frown on his face. His face was red. He walked to the divider. And that is when his son, Eric Trump, is sitting right behind him.
He reached out to Eric Trump's hand, shook it vigorously.
And then as he was walking past Eric Trump, Eric patted his father on the back. And then Trump walked out the center aisle of the courtroom and headed to the cameras where he spoke.
Certainly a dramatic day. I talked to someone in Trump's camp who was telling me afterwards, he said that Trump was in good spirits and ready to fight. That was not the expression as he was walking out of the courtroom.
He looked a bit wounded. And I don't want to speak for him, but he looked a bit upset when he was walking out of that courtroom with a frown on his face and his face red in an appearance.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: So this unprecedented verdict has sparked questions about what's next for Trump. Yes, he will still remain the presumptive Republican nominee for U.S. president. And despite being a convicted felon, Trump can still become president if he defeats Joe Biden. What isn't clear is whether he'll be eligible to vote.
Now the answer, it depends and it's complicated. So will he be able to successfully appeal the conviction or will he serve his sentence? And would that sentence include prison in time, Prison time rather. So I want to bring in Areva Martin, who's an attorney and legal
affairs commentator in Los Angeles. Good to see you again. I just want to start with this. Your reaction to the verdicts and relatively quickly, right, less than 10 hours of deliberation.
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: I wasn't surprised, Kim, by the verdict. There was a mound or mountain of evidence put on by the prosecuting attorney. And this was a fairly simple white collar crime business case brought by this prosecuting attorney whose office says they've been filing these kinds of business cases, business fraud cases for 90 years.
So this is the bread and butter of this prosecuting attorney's office. So I didn't think that there would be any decision other than guilty on all counts. The defense put on by Donald Trump's team was really about Michael Cohen. But this case was so much bigger and there was so much evidence beyond the testimony of Michael Cohen. So I wasn't surprised by the verdict by the jury.
BRUNHUBER: So based on what you said, I mean, the prosecution must have sort of built a good case. Do you think the defense made any mistakes and why do you think Trump didn't testify? Might that have helped?
MARTIN: Well, you know, Kim, Trump makes a habit of always saying he's going to testify in cases, but he never does or he rarely does. And I think in this case, he would have been subjected to such grueling cross-examination. I doubt if he would have been able to withstand the cross-examination by the prosecuting attorneys.
And I don't think there's anything he could have done to help his case. The evidence, again, the written evidence, the documentary evidence, the evidence of business records, the invoices, the handwritten notes, all of that overwhelming evidence to try to overcome, even by Donald Trump.
And in terms of mistakes by his team, I think the way they went after Stormy Daniels, trying to humiliate her, trying to in some ways shame her for the profession that she's in, I think that backfired on them.
I think the way that Trump and the witness, Costello, that they brought, the defense witness, the way they scorned the judge, the way they interacted with the judge, I think that also hurt their case. Look, juries typically love their judges, and they look to the judge and, you know, they follow the instructions of the judge. And in this case, the way Trump and his team treated the judge, I think, again, probably backfired with respect to this jury.
[02:10:01]
BRUNHUBER: All right. So on the sentencing, plenty of mitigating factors, his age, a first-time offender, it was a nonviolent crime. On the other hand, plenty of aggravating factors as well, including the number of counts, the lack of remorse. I mean, which side do you think the judge will land on here? MARTIN: You know, one thing that's interesting, Kim, I don't think
Donald Trump's team is going to come into court and do what a typical defense team would do, provide those factors that you just identified as mitigating factors, talking about his age, talking about this being a first-time offense for him.
I think their arrogance and their hubris, they're probably going to come in and continue to argue that this was a sham trial, that Michael Cohen was a liar that this verdict should be thrown out because it was based on Michael Cohen's testimony. I don't see them making the standard mitigating arguments that you would expect from your typical defendant.
And as you indicated, there are multiple, multiple aggregating factors. The fact that he has not shown any remorse, that he's not accepted any responsibility that he continues to violate the gag order, that there are at least ten documented violations of that gag order.
He left court today and, again, attacked the whole process, attacked the judicial system, attacked the judge. He didn't come out and accept any personal responsibility. So I think it would be almost impossible for this judge not to sentence him to some jail time, even if it's on the lower end of the four years.
BRUNHUBER: Really? Jail time? You think, I mean, you know, being a presidential candidate isn't supposed to factor into it. But I mean, the reality is the reality, right? You really think he will serve jail time here?
MARTIN: Well, again, set aside the fact that he was a former president of the United States, if he were any other defendant, he would probably be facing jail time at the higher end of the range, given his conduct, given, as I said, his lack of contrition, his lack of accepting any responsibility, his repeated attacks on the process. Those are things that normal defendants get to do without facing very, very significant penalties for their conduct.
And I think this judge has proven that he's not going to treat Donald Trump any other way than any other defendant that is in his courtroom. He's going to hold him to account and he's going to treat him in the same way any other defendant would be treated. And again, if this were any other defendant, he would be facing jail time without doubt.
BRUNHUBER: Really? All right. Well, we shall see. Obviously, Donald Trump will appeal. Any idea on what grounds? I mean, misconduct by the jury, for instance. What do you think his team will be honing in on here?
MARTIN: Well, the one thing that they have been consistent in asserting to this court is the unreliability, the credibility issues with Michael Cohen. That has been their argument from day one. That has been the defense that they have asserted throughout this entire trial. And I expect that that will be the same playbook that they will run with respect to an appeal. They will make arguments about Michael Cohen and the fact that the jury relying on in their estimation, any testimony from Michael Cohen automatically nullifies the decision by this jury and renders its decision null and void. But I don't think that's going to be a winnable argument at the appellate level. It wasn't a winnable argument with this judge.
And I think the reality is Donald Trump has to, like anyone else that commits a crime in the state of New York or any state, he has to be held accountable and he is not above the law. And New Yorkers sent him a very loud and clear message to that effect.
BRUNHUBER: All right. A historic conviction. I really appreciate getting your take on it. Areva Martin, thank you so much for joining us.
MARTIN: Thanks, Kim.
BRUNHUBER: Well, as our guests just mentioned, Donald Trump's attorney, Todd Blanche, doesn't believe this was a fair trial. He says there was too much publicity around the case and its witnesses. Here's what he told CNN's Kaitlan Collins.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD BLANCHE, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: Understanding why a jury reaches a verdict is something that that every single trial lawyer in the country would love to be able to answer, honestly.
Look, a lot goes into a jury verdict that doesn't even include what happened at the trial. You know, the decisions that are made before the trial, the decisions that the court makes and that the parties decide about what witnesses to call, what evidence to put in, you know?
So I think that at the end of the day, it remains true that if the word of Michael Cohen was not accepted at all, then you could not have convicted President Trump and the jury convicted. So at the end of the day, they looked past what we thought were fatal flaws in Mr. Cohen's story and in his past. And then they reached a guilty verdict.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Right. But it wasn't just the word of Michael Cohen. I mean, there was other evidence in this case, the documents. They wanted to rehear David Pecker's testimony. I mean, they took all of that into consideration.
[02:15:09]
BLANCHE: Sure. No, look, of course, the jury will take everything into consideration that they were very serious. Look, this jury showed up on time every day. They were very focused on the evidence and on the and on the testimony that came in. And there was a lot.
But look, at the end of the day, it was still a case, in our view, as we've been saying for a year, that that relied on testimony of conversations and interactions that took place eight, seven, eight, nine years ago. And certainly documents were part of the case. But the documents that the 34 counts were documents that really had very little connection to President Trump.
But for the checks that -- the few checks that he signed. Look, we -- I very much believe that the jury -- that the jury should have found President Trump not guilty. I mean, very much in my soul. I believe that. And I believe it for a year. I mean, I left -- I left my job to do what I did the past six weeks. And -- and my conviction around what happened today and what I believe the facts show, it remains the same.
COLLINS: I know you -- you disagree with the outcome, obviously. And but do you accept that he did have his day in court and it was a jury of his peers that made this decision?
BLANCHE: No, not at all.
COLLINS: Why not?
BLANCHE: No. I mean, look, I think and this is nothing that we haven't said repeatedly. We were indicted for -- for conduct that happened in 2015, 16, 17 in a jurisdiction that that -- that it was very hard for us to get a fair trial, Kaitlan, I mean, and it's I know the district attorney has said -- repeatedly said it today. This is a bread and butter case. We do this all the time.
That is not true. It's just not true. It may be that they bring these types of charges regularly, business records charges. But you cannot find another case in the Manhattan district attorneys in the history of that office where they did what they did here, which is charge -- charge somebody for conduct that was seven, eight years old.
Somebody's personal records, right, not corporate records, his personal records. So -- so this is not -- I don't think I think it's naive to say that this is like any other case that we do. What we did in this case is what we do all the time. No.
COLLINS: Well, why didn't the cross examination of these witnesses or what you put forward your defense? Why didn't that work? Why did it still lead to this outcome?
BLANCHE: Well, that's a great question. If you know the answer to that, tell me. I mean, look, I don't. I think that at the end of the day, I do think it comes to something that -- that we talk about a lot of times in our profession where there's a bias that you have that you can't get past. I mean, you say that -- that this is where he built his business. That's true. Every single person on that jury knew Donald Trump either as president, as candidate from "The Apprentice". And so I don't accept that this was a fair that this was a fair place to try.
COLLINS: Is that what you're going to -- what's your main argument going to be in your appeal?
BLANCHE: Look, I think we have -- I think there were a lot. That is certainly an argument. I think the timing of this trial and -- was really unfair to President Trump. There is so much publicity around the witnesses and around leading up to the trial that -- that it just our system of justice isn't supposed to be a system where every person that walks in the courtroom knows about the case. I mean, and it sounds -- it sounds like it's one of those cases where you can't avoid it. I mean, no matter what jurisdiction he's tried it, the law doesn't say the law doesn't say.
But if you can't avoid it, tough luck. Right. That's not what the law says. The law says that a person is entitled to a fair trial in front of a jury of their peers. And we just think that because of everything around the -- the lead up this trial, it made it very difficult for -- for the jury to evaluate the evidence kind of independent of what they knew coming in. And we knew that. And that's not something that we haven't we've been screaming that from the rooftops.
COLLINS: Let's talk about -- you said a few of your arguments on the appeal. When do you plan to file your appeal?
BLANCHE: Well, there's a lot of that. Look, this is one step in the process. Right. So we have motions due in a couple of weeks in front of Judge Merchant, which we're going to vigorously fight and restate a lot of what I'm saying to you tonight and other things that happened during the trial that we think just made the trial unfair, including the testimony of Miss Daniels.
If that is not successful, then as soon as we can appeal, we will. And the process in New York is there's a sentencing. And then and then and then we appeal from there.
COLLINS: Why did Donald Trump not ultimately take the stand here?
BLANCHE: Well, that's a very. Personal question to him and to me, honestly, and it's a very difficult question. Of course, he wanted to testify.
[02:20:04]
And I don't say that because that's what he has said. He wanted to get his story out. I think the judge had made some decisions before the trial or the day of the trial started about what -- what would be allowed to be asked of him by the -- by the prosecutors if he took the stand.
And some of those questions were really complicated to answer because there's still appeals going on. And so there's a lot of -- there's a lot of decision points that go into whether somebody testifies. Ultimately, it's his decision.
And he listened to us and he relied on our counsel and he reached the decision that he -- that he thought was right, which I very much agreed with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: All right, ahead here on "CNN Newsroom", we'll have more on Donald Trump's hush money conviction, including how one star witness feels now that the jurors have reached their verdict. Plus, another key player is still processing the jury's decision. How
Stormy Daniels, husband and attorney, says she's reacting to the verdict. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRAGG: I did my job. Our job is to follow the facts in the law without fear or favor. And that's exactly what we did here. I did my job. We did our job. Many voices out there. The only voice that matters is the voice of the jury and the jury has spoken.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Well, that's the top prosecutor in Manhattan talking about Donald Trump's historic conviction on Thursday. He was found guilty on all 34 counts in his hush money trial. He's now the first former president in U.S. history to become a convicted felon.
Trump's sentencing is set for July 11th. Until then, Trump will remain free and he can still run for president. He could face anything from probation to up to 20 years in prison.
Now, Stormy Daniels played a key role in the trial. Her testimony was crucial to Trump's conviction. The adult film star endured appointed and combative cross-examination as defense attorneys tried to discredit her history of having a sexual encounter with Trump.
Here's how her attorney and her husband say she reacted to the guilty verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLARK BREWSTER, ATTORNEY FOR STORMY DANIELS: She was actually pretty emotional, really, a lot of mixed emotions. Obviously, it's a sad time for, you know, anyone to have a conviction like this. I mean, it's momentous to the country. So it really kind of hit her hard.
But on the other hand, she knows how hard the jurors worked and their oath that they took, and we have to respect that no man is above the law and we have to respect the system.
But, you know, she has empathy and but she also did her duty and came to court and told the truth and was exposed to cross-examination and the jurors did their work.
[02:25:00]
BARRETT BLADE, STORMY DANIELS' HUSBAND (on the phone): This wouldn't have happened without her, but also this wasn't her case. She didn't ask for this, you know, she was -- she was brought into this. This wasn't her seeking justice for herself. She was standing up for herself early on and saying what was right.
But this whole hush money trial is really nothing. It's not her story. I mean, it's nice that the jury saw the facts and made the decision. And of course, we support that either way. If they'd solve it differently, we would have supported either way.
But I think it does help with the fact that she feels, you know, a little vindicated that, you know, she was telling the truth. And to this day, though, I don't know if that matters. I think a lot of people still think she's lying. So, I mean, I don't know that anybody will ever -- people that aren't going to believe you are just not going to believe they've made up their mind. And that's bad. That's fine. They have a right to get that decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: To another key witness at the trial, a former Trump attorney and fixer, Michael Cohen, says he's relieved, but not surprised after his former boss was found guilty. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: The facts speak for themselves. All of the testimony by the other witnesses that I had involvement with corroborated what I've been saying for six years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Trump's niece, Mary Trump, says she believes Thursday's verdict will drive more lies and falsehoods from the former president. Mary Trump spoke with CNN shortly after the verdict was announced. And here's what she had to say about what she thinks he will do next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY TRUMP, NIECE OF FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I think even he cannot deny as much as he'd like to that -- that today he was convicted on 34 felony counts and that he is indeed a convicted felon. And he's going to have to grapple with the fallout of that.
However, having said that, I think the -- the recognition of that won't last very long. We seem to be in a very similar situation to the one we were in after the 2020 election.
Privately, he was able to concede that he had lost. But very quickly after that, the humiliation sort of overwhelmed him. And we ended up with the big lie, which led to stop the steal, which led to the insurrection.
So unfortunately, I do think we need to be braced for a pivot to his attempts, at least, to create another alternate reality in which he can protect himself from what is unquestionably a devastating loss in court today.
He's incapable of accepting what happened. And he's certainly incapable of admitting that he'd done anything wrong. So that's just going to complicate things for him going forward.
I said this in 2020, before the election, that because we know that Donald was already saying that he wasn't going to accept the results unless he won. He was already saying that it was rigged in case that he lost.
So we are in similar territory, except, of course, things are worse and more dangerous than they were four years ago.
And we saw this yesterday. Michael Fanone, Capitol Police officer who laid his life on the line to protect the Capitol, to protect all of the people in that building and to protect American democracy, went to the courthouse in New York City and he spoke his mind.
Not long after that, his mother's house was swatted.
So Donald has long been engaging in stochastic terrorism. He uses his power, his platform and his influence to get his followers to commit acts of violence on his behalf. That's something we desperately need to look out for. There is nothing this man will not stoop to. If he feels like he's going down, he will absolutely take the rest of us with him. That was true four years ago. It's even more true now. It's especially true now that he has finally faced justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Donald Trump's wife, Melania, and their son, Barron, were noticeably absent from the courtroom on Thursday, even though both were in New York at the time. In fact, the former first lady wasn't seen at court during the entire course of her husband's seven week hush money trial. Sources familiar with the couple tell CNN it's not surprising that Mrs. Trump hasn't been present in court. The former first lady also opted out of a fundraising dinner with her husband in New York City following Thursday's verdict.
Well, it didn't take long for politics to kick in after the Trump verdict was announced. Still ahead, the Trump and Biden campaigns try to score political points and cash in on the jury's decision. That's all coming up. Stay with us.
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[02:32:32]
BRUNHUBER: Welcome back to all you watching us around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is CNN NEWSROOM.
Donald Trump is vowing to fight the 34 guilty verdicts in his hush money trial verdicts that made him the first former president in U.S. history to become a convicted felon. A jury of seven men and five women deliberated for nearly 12 hours over two days, they found Trump guilty on all counts of falsifying business records in a hush money scheme to silence an adult film star over an alleged affair, all part of what prosecutors say was an illegal conspiracy to undermine the integrity of the 2016 presidential election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALVIN BRAGG, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Defendant Donald J. Trump is guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records in the first degree to conceal a scheme to corrupt the 2016 election.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have a country that's in big trouble. But this was a rig decision right from day one with a conflicted judges should have never been allowed to try this case, never, and we will fight for our constitution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Both Trump and Joe Biden are using the verdict to ask for votes and to raise money for their presidential campaigns.
Kayla Tausche has reactions from the White House, but first person, Kristen Holmes explains that Trump has a lot more to say about the verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Shortly after leaving the courthouse, after being convicted and found guilty on all 34 charges, Donald Trump announced from Trump Tower that he'd be giving a press conference on Friday morning, reacting to the verdict in his criminal hush money trial.
Now, I have been told by senior advisers that Donald Trump is going to continue to use the same messaging that he has used since before the trial began, calling this a rigged elections, saying that this was political persecution.
Now because of this messaging, they believe this being senior campaign advisers that this is not going to harm him in November, that instead, it will energize Republicans, energize his base.
But it should be made clear this is really uncharted territory, despite the fact that they compare this to his among other legal issues, including multiple indictments which actually helped give him a boost in both the polls and in fundraising numbers. This is an actual conviction, and recent polling show that of people who said that they were already going to vote for Donald Trump, 7 percent say they were less likely to vote for him if he was convicted.
Now, while this is not a huge number, everything is going to count in the upcoming election.
[02:35:07]
Both Biden's team and Trump's team believed that this is going to be a very narrow margin, and 7 percent is especially significant if you were talking about Donald Trump's base because his campaign believes that Donald Trump's base always shows up to vote.
So whether or not this actually impacts what people do when they get to the ballot box remains to be seen, but we should hear -- we should expect to continue to hear that messaging over and over again, trying to link this case to President Joe Biden and calling this political persecution. Kristen Holmes, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: As the news of the historic conviction of Donald Trump came down, Biden administration employees in the west wing were said to be transfixed and stunned by the news, which they watched relayed on TVs mounted in the hallways of the West Wing that are constantly tuned to for concurrently cable channel.
One senior administration official asked by CNN how to respond to the Trump verdict, said simply, it matters.
President Biden is traveling in Delaware and aides traveling with him declined to share additional details with CNN and the traveling pool about how President Biden learned of the historic decision, who relayed the news to him and where he was when he received it. And there are no public events on President Biden's calendar for the following day, in which he would be expected to be addressing this directly.
The reporters are expected to be people to shout questions on a few separate occasions.
As for the Biden-Harris reelection campaign, they have seized the mantle on the messaging, immediately following the verdict blasting text messages, emails, tweets, asking for grassroots donations and saying convicted felon or not, Trump will be the Republican nominee for president in one message, even suggesting that Trump could see record fundraising as a result of the conviction.
Kayla Tausche, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: And joining us now is Sara Sadhwani. She's a political science professor at Pomona College, and democracy fellow with the Harvard University Kennedy School.
Thank you so much for being here with us.
So, just a first-year thoughts on the historic nature of this conviction.
SARA SADHWANI, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, POMONA COLLEGE: Yeah, absolutely. This is unprecedented. We have never before seen a former president, as well as the leading candidate for the presidency for a major party being convicted of felonies before.
So this is absolutely an unprecedented historic first. Certainly in the past that we have quite some time ago, almost 100 years ago, seen a nominee who actually did run for president from prison. But, of course, they were from the socialist party and didn't actually make it very far. But they were able to get those votes.
So despite this, this conviction, he can still remain on the ballot.
BRUNHUBER: Yeah. And this candidate has a really good shot at actually winning. So on the political fallout, a recent poll found two-thirds of the respondents said a guilty verdict wouldn't affect their votes, 17 percent said it would make them less likely to vote for Donald Trump.
Do you think those numbers will hold up?
SADHWANI: Much to be seen here, right? This was -- these were polls that were taken during the Republican primary election some months ago. And now that we have a conviction, these questions need to be asked again, will it actually move the needle?
Certainly, we have seen that Donald Trump it has a strong support base. However, there are plenty of people who have lost interest in Donald Trump and that was noted in the recent primaries where Nikki Haley was getting 15, 20 percent of the vote even after she had left the election, she continued to garner support.
So it's a big question of where those voters will go. Those voters who have said, we're done with Trump, we saw January 6. We're done with that messaging. It's time to move on.
Do they stay home in November? Do they cast a vote for Joe Biden or do they look to one of these third-party candidates like an RFK Jr., or even a Cornell West as a place for their vote?
BRUNHUBER: Yeah. I mean, as we heard from our reporter there, both candidates using this to fundraise. Obviously, one would rather not be running a presidential campaign as a convicted felon.
But could it make a difference in terms of boosting turnout as you sort of alluded to? The Republicans now have a cause to believe in. Democrats might not be quite as fired up and could potentially stay home.
SADHWANI: That's certainly a real a-- real danger for Democrats. Of course, Joe Biden has been trailing in the polls and has faced a lot about opposition from what should have been his base of support, not just on his age factor, which, of course, has continuously come up despite his fiery State of the Union Address, but also on Palestine.
[02:40:07]
Of course, throughout the last several months, we have seen protests on college campuses and by all accounts, those protesters intend to make their voices heard and known at the upcoming Democratic National Convention.
So, certainly, Biden has a lot of work to do to win over some of those perhaps former Trump voters or people that are turned off by this conviction today. BRUNHUBER: Yeah, you think, I mean, from what we've seen so far about
their response how do you think that the president and the Democrats will kind of use this?
SADHWANI: They're going to have to use it and they're going to have to double down on reminding voters, again and again over the next several months that their choices are between Joe Biden or convicted felon.
So, no doubt we're going to be hearing those terms over and over again from the Democrats, as a rallying cry to raise the sound -- raise the alarm against Donald Trump. That being said, he has proven time and time again that he appears to be made of Teflon. He has survived those Hollywood Access tapes in 2016 that we thought would bring down and was still elected president.
He has survived a number of different controversies and scandals and still seems to be able to pull out that support. So, a big question for 2024 will be that voter turnout. In 2020, we saw historic turnout. We don't anticipate seeing that again this year.
BRUNHUBER: Yeah, we'll see about that.
I want to ask you about some of the rhetoric. Trump wrote after the verdicts: our whole country is being rigged right now. I mean, you know, it's in line with what he said before, but still these incendiary words, do you think this verdict and Trumps reaction to it will eventually lead to political violence. Maybe, the type of thing that we saw on January 6.
SADHWANI: Well, first to address the rhetoric, right? Rigged seems to be the big term for Donald Trump in it has proven to be a winner for him in the past, despite the fact that there may be no evidence as such following the 2016 election, even. He had brought up so many issues around whether or not there were people who weren't supposed to be on the roles at all and even on his own panels that investigated it, they found no evidence as such. He has used it following the 2020 election.
And, of course, we saw that there was again, no evidence that this -- that the election was rigged.
And yet we continue good to see people who believe this, this messaging. So when Donald Trump says something is rigged, so many Americans tend to believe that that is true even if the evidence holds -- holds counter to that, and political violence is absolutely a concern even before this verdict today, political violence was a real concern. We saw it after the 2020 election. And regardless of the outcome of the 2024 election, it's absolutely a concern and a concern for the status and wellbeing of our democracy.
BRUNHUBER: Yeah, absolutely. Listen, well have to leave it there, but Sara Sadhwani, really appreciate having you on. Thank you so much.
SADHWANI: Thanks for having me.
BRUNHUBER: All right. Well, this was the reaction to Thursday's historic verdict in New York.
How will this impact voters in key battleground states? We'll have that story and much more after the break. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BRUNHUBER: Turning now to our breaking news, Donald Trump is the first former president in American history to be convicted of a felony. Those historic verdict could have major implications for the 2024 presidential race especially in battleground states like Pennsylvania.
Our Danny Freeman is in Bucks County getting voter reaction and what could be a decisive districts and President Joe Biden's home state.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as soon as we heard the news of this conviction coming down, we headed to Bucks County in Pennsylvania.
It's one of the all important suburbs of Philadelphia, the collar counties as they call it and basically if President Biden wants to win Pennsylvania, he needs to run up the numbers in a county like this in Bucks County.
We spoke to a number of voters. Most of those folks that wanted to speak with us on camera, they were glad that former President Trump was convicted, but each of them had different perspectives on this moment in history. Take a listen to what they had to say.
JEFF GREB, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I feel like it's kind of like Teflon. There's been a lot of things attached to him that haven't really stuck, but this is one where they went through the process. You know, we have to trust the courts.
CHRISTINA JAROSZ, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I think everybody needs to abide by the law and if they're not going to, then they should be -- pay the consequences.
CLAIRE GREEN, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I really hope that people spend time not saying would-be or gotcha, or great or entertainment. But feeling deeply saddened that they knowingly participated in a process in which we elected somebody like this.
FREEMAN: No, I should say we also spoke to folks who were much more supportive and sympathetic to former president Trump. I spoke to one woman who said, listen, I'm not necessarily the biggest fan of President Trump, but 34 counts seemed excessive. So there are a lot of opinions, certainly after this decision came down from the jury, but that's a little taste of what voters in this all important swing state, and this all important county really had to say about this outcome.
From Bucks County, Pennsylvania, Danny Freeman, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: All right. After the break, we'll take a closer look at the hush money trial star witness Michael Cohen and his relationship with Donald Trump.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:50:28]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALVIN BRAGG, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Twelve every day New Yorkers, and, of course, our alternates heard testimony from 22 witnesses, including former and current employees of the defendant, media executives, book publishers, custodians of records and others, they reviewed call logs, text messages, and emails. They heard recordings. They saw checks and invoices, bank statements, and calendar appointments.
This type of white collar prosecution is core to what we do at the Manhattan district attorneys office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: That was Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg, moments after a verdict was read in Donald Trumps historic hush money trial. Now, this was some of the evidence Bragg just mentioned used by prosecutors to convince jurors, the former president falsified business records in order to silence negative stories about him in the run-up to the 2016 election, the Trump Organization ledger showed 12 outgoing payments to Michael Cohen, Trump's former lawyer and the prosecutions key witness in this case.
Cohen then send invoices requesting payments throughout 2017. Crucial documentation of the payments were requested and the amount paid. And finally, evidence submitted by the prosecution shows Donald Trump signed checks for $35,000 to Cohen from his personal account and mark them in the ledger as legal expenses.
Now, let's clear, Michael Cohen was a key witness for the prosecution who may have swayed the jury's decision. He was once infamously known as Trump's fixer, an attorney.
CNN's Brian Todd takes a closer look at a man behind the foreign president's hush money scheme.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER ATTORNEY OF DONALD TRUMP: Here today, the next president of the United States --
(CHEERS) BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was those times, Michael Cohen seemed to get nostalgic over in his testimony on Monday, when he was working his dream job for a man he respected and admired.
It started, Cohen says, when he was at Donald Trump's office to ask about a $100,000 bill for work he had done for the company. Trump offered him a job on the spot.
I was honored. I was taken by surprise, he said, smiling at the memory.
COHEN: Talked to me and he liked my personality, which is -- I mean, my nickname was like pit-bull. Yeah, once I get my hands around your neck, you're finished, you know, and I never let go.
TODD: He said his new job was, quote, amazing, fantastic.
COHEN: You could be sitting in his office and next thing, boom, it's a superstar celebrity, or it's another multibillionaire, or it's a reporter on the telephone.
TODD: When Trump praised him for handling a problem well, Cohen said, he felt like he was on top of the world.
The 57 year-old grew up on Long Island. His father, a Holocaust survivor. Quote: Actually, I didn't want to be a lawyer. My grandmother wanted me to be a lawyer.
He became a personal injury attorney with a side hustle dealing in taxi medallions.
He lived in a Trump apartment building, bought and sold additional properties, and even organized a condo board takeover.
He liked the way that that occurred, Cohen said. What did he do for Trump?
COHEN: Well, my job is, I protect Mr. Trump.
TODD: Often in a vicious manner, Cohen testified.
MARC FISHER, CO-AUTHOR OF "TRUMP REVEALED": He was famous for his rants, his tirades. He'd get extremely angry. He'd make threats. He'd call people names.
TODD: And Cohen testified he would sometimes lie for Donald Trump. But after Trump was elected, Cohen was not given a job in Washington.
FISHER: Donald Trump always kept Michael Cohen at a certain distance and Cohen became more and more resentful of the fact that he was being kept at arm's length distance by Donald Trump.
TODD: The relationship ruptured after Cohen's role facilitating the hush money payments to Stormy Daniels became public. Cohen went to jail, was disbarred, and bitterly testified against Trump in Congress.
COHEN: He is a racist. He is a conman, and he is a cheat.
TODD: Is Cohen really a different man now from those days as Trump's bullying fixer?
FISHER: This new Michael Cohen seems quieter, more subdued, chastened. He does seem to be defeated. He's lost stature. He's lost his connection to Trump.
TODD: As for the future dynamic between the two men, Trump biographer Marc Fisher says, it's possible that Trump might try to retaliate somehow for Cohen's testimony. But Fisher says that Trump is also known for bringing people who go astray back into his orbit. He says that's a possibility with Michael Cohen, albeit a slight one.
[02:55:04]
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Well, it's worth a reminder that the hush money trial was just one of the four criminal indictments against Trump. But all the other cases are in legal limbo. A Trump Trump-appointed judge overseeing the classified documents case in Florida, has indefinitely postponed the trial that was supposed to start this month.
The federal election subversion case is on hold while the U.S. Supreme Court considers his claims of presidential immunity and the Georgia election interference case is on hold while Trump and his co- defendants try to disqualify the prosecutor.
All right. That wraps this hour of CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Kim Brunhuber. I'll be back in just a moment with more news. Please do stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BRUNHUBER: Welcome to CNN special coverage of the criminal conviction of former U.S. President Donald Trump.
I'm Kim Brunhuber.
A defiant Donald Trump has made history as the first former U.S. president to become a convicted felon while raising the possibility.
