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Zelenskyy Calls For More International Pressure On Russia; World Awaits Hamas Response On Israel's Ceasefire Proposal In Gaza; Fast-Moving California Wildfire Forces Families To Evacuate; Polls Set To Close In Hours In Historic Mexico Election; Trump Says He's "OK" With Going To Jail. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired June 02, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: She also says Trump's conduct on January 6 was reprehensible.

LINDA ROONEY, PENNSYLVANIAN REPUBLICAN: So, you know, I just can't I can forgive him for that.

KING: But Rooney won't vote for Biden again.

ROONEY: I can't. I don't trust him with the economy. My son's in the army, I don't -- I'm angry about Afghanistan, about that withdrawal. So honestly, I can't vote for him.

So I have two choices. I can write someone in or I can hold my nose and vote for Trump. And no, that's only going to be four more years.

KING: Michael Pacey (ph) also takes the only four more years approach, but he arrives at a different answer.

MICHAEL PACEY, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: If enough of us Republicans can do the right thing, keep Trump out of office, the next four years aren't going to be perfect. But I think there could be better than what the alternative would be.

KING: Their Haley vote in April was a protest. Their choice in November could well the decide the outcome in a crucial battleground.

John King, CNN -- Doylestown, Pennsylvania.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello everyone. Thanks for joining me. I'm Alisyn Camerota, in for Fredricka Whitfield.

We're watching several big stories unfolding around the world. So let's start overseas where the U.S. is reaffirming its support for Ukraine as President Volodymyr Zelenskyy tries to rally world leaders to help his country fight off Russia.

Today, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin met with Zelenskyy on the sidelines of a key security summit in Singapore. Last week, the U.S. granted permission for Ukraine to use American-

made weapons inside Russian territory. This is a big shift in U.S. policy.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is in Singapore at the defense summit, Natasha.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, Presidents Zelenskyy of Ukraine, he met with a number of different leaders here earlier today in Singapore including Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin.

And the two, according to a readout from the Pentagon, discussed Ukraine's most urgent battlefield needs, including their desperate need for additional air defense systems to really fend off the massive missile barrages that Russia is launching at Ukraine on a near-daily basis.

And importantly, President Zelenskyy also wanted to thank Austin and the United States and President Biden for making that policy decision to finally allow Ukraine to use American made weapons to strike into Russia itself to try to defend itself against those attacks that Russia is launching from near the border with the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv.

Now, the big theme though and the reason why Zelenskyy came here to Singapore was to try to rally Asian countries behind Ukraine, to try to get behind Ukraine's fight against the Russians. To not side with the Russians and to importantly participate in a very important peace summit that Ukraine has been organizing over the last several months in which it's going to be held in just two weeks' time. A peace summit that aims to develop some kind of formula to finally end the war between Ukrainian and Russia.

And importantly, Zelenskyy was trying to get the Chinese to attend this peace summit, but the Chinese would not even meet today here in Singapore with President Zelenskyy. And they are not expected to attend that peace summit either.

In fact, according to the U.S. and the U.K., China is actively supporting Russia's war in Ukraine by supporting its defense structure.

So while President Zelenskyy did not get everything that he wanted here today, including that important meeting with the Chinese, he did say that he accomplished some very key things, including meeting face- to-face with some of these very important leaders and hopefully rallying an even bigger coalition of international partners to support Ukraine in its fight against the Russians, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Natasha, thank you very much for that update.

Well, this marks the start of a significant week for the Biden administration on foreign affairs. The president is gearing up to visit France, part of the 80th anniversary of the D-Day invasion, where he'll speak about the importance of defending democracy.

But he's also preparing a policy shift in border security here at home as White House officials closely monitor the presidential election underway right now in Mexico.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins us now with more.

So Priscilla, what does the White House hope to gain during President Biden's visit to France.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is certainly an opportunity for the United States to reaffirm its leadership on the world stage. That is something that President Biden sought out to do as soon as he took office back in 2021. And this is getting another opportunity to do that.

And as you mentioned, after he commemorates the 80th anniversary of D- Day, he is going to deliver remarks about the importance of democracy and freedom. This according to the White House.

And this is something that the president has sought to do on the campaign trail and something that we are now going to see him take to the world stage, that argument that it is important to preserve democracy, something that the president and his campaign has said is at risk if former President Donald Trump were to take a second term.

[14:05:00]

ALVAREZ: In fact, he has said in fundraisers with donors that world leaders have told him that his Republican rival can't take a second term, given the risks that it does pose to democracy.

So those themes are likely to come up in his remarks in France.

And then too, he's expected to meet with the French president. That's going to happen, of course, on the heels of the president outlining that hostage deal to try to reach a ceasefire agreement in Gaza.

Now, the French president has come out and said that it is support of this proposal, but the U.S. has found itself quite isolated on the world stage in its support for Israel as there continue to be -- continues to be devastation in Gaza.

So this will be an opportunity for him to shore up allies and partners in backing this deal in hopes of trying to reach an agreement. Although of course, as the president noted on Friday, this is a difficult endeavor, one that officials are working on around the clock behind the scenes.

But certainly in a decisive moment as the president said, and trying to reach this ceasefire agreement in Gaza.

CAMEROTA: Priscilla Alvarez, thank you very much for all the reporting.

Well, strong words from Israel's defense minister today who says that any peace deal that allows Hamas to rule over Gaza will not be accepted.

Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu also pushed back on the ceasefire plan unveiled by President Biden on Friday.

Journalist Elliott Gotkine has more from Tel Aviv.

ELLIOTT GOTKINE, CNN JOURNALIST: Alisyn after President Biden chaired the Israeli ceasefire proposal with the world on Friday and then followed up with a helpful tweet containing a graphic of the three phases of this ceasefire proposal, there were inevitable reactions from Israel across the political spectrum.

First and foremost, from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who took the rare step of issuing a press statement on the Jewish Sabbath on Saturday in which he said that Israel would never agree to a full cessation of hostilities, which is due to come in phase two of this three-phase ceasefire proposal until such time as Israel's war objectives have been met.

And he reiterated what Israel's conditions for an end to the war were. Number one, to destroy Hamas' military and governance capabilities.

Number two, to get all the hostages living and dead back into Israel.

And number three, to ensure that the Gaza Strip no longer poses a threat to Israel.

And I think Netanyahu was also based on this statement on the Sabbath, trying to preempt the inevitable blowback from the far-right members of his governing coalition -- blowback, which inevitably came at the end of the Sabbath in which they said that this deal, this proposal, was reckless that it would amount to a capitulation to Hamas and that they wouldn't support it. They would pull their party's out of Netanyahu's governing coalition if this deal goes ahead.

Now, if they make good on that threat, that would likely lead to the collapse of the government. The deal, if it does go through and Hamas approves it with Hamas right now.

If that deal does go through to Israel's Knesset, the parliament here, it would no doubt still get through with the support of opposition parties. The leader of the opposition Yair Lapid saying that he would support it.

Inevitably after that, the governing coalition would likely collapse. There will be fresh elections -- elections, which opinion polls suggest Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would lose.

I know that's something else that's playing on his mind, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Elliott Gotkine, thank you very much.

All right. With me now, as Nicholas Kristof, "New York Times" columnist and author of the new book, "Chasing Hope: A reporters life".

Nick, great to see you. Let's start with the situation in the Middle East. So today, National Security Council spokesman John Kirby described where he says things stand. Listen to this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL SPOKESPERSON: Where we are right now is that proposal, an Israeli proposal has been given to Hamas. It was done on Thursday night, our time.

We're waiting for an official response from Hamas. We would note that publicly Hamas officials came out and welcomed this proposal. But we have every expectation that if Hamas agrees to the proposal as was transmitted to them and Israeli proposal that Israel would say yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: I mean, with all respect to John Kirby, it might be a little more complicated than he's making it sound there.

Do you think that this proposal stands a chance?

NICHOLAS KRISTOF, "NEW YORK TIMES": I mean, that stand a chance. But it is striking that Israel seems to be backing away from its own proposal. And I think that the way President Biden framed it was essentially as a challenge to Israel. By presenting it as Israel's plan, he made it a little bit more difficult for Benjamin Netanyahu to back away from it.

But I mean Netanyahu is certainly capable of that. And even if Hamas were to agree and Netanyahu were to agree, there is still, you know, a lot to go from that stage one to stage two.

CAMEROTA: But I mean, I should point out it's so complicated internally for Netanyahu between his, you know, far-right flank and his war cabinet, who liked this plan.

And so what can President Biden do to help that whole dynamic?

[14:10:00]

KRISTOF: So I don't know that President Biden can do much to change that dynamic. What he can do is try to change this so it isn't just about whether Netanyahu stays in office because fundamentally, Netanyahu's interests are not aligned with those of Israel.

Netanyahu's interests are to frankly, keep the war going because as long as the war continues, he's going to remain prime minister. And, you know, that is, it seems to me not in Israel's interests. I don't think it's in the U.S. interests and certainly not in the interest of the Palestinian people.

I think that President Biden should not just have been and be advising Israel to show more restraint to push more toward an exchange of prisoners, et cetera, but also use the leverage that we have, which is largely the diplomatic support we provide at the U.N., and also the weapons shipments we provide Israel.

And when President Biden has been willing to use that leverage there has indeed been a response from Israel, but I think he's often been too reluctant to use that leverage.

CAMEROTA: You have a great new column in "The New York Times". You offer what you call a roadmap for how to think about the Israel-Hamas war. And basically how I read it was that it requires some nuanced thinking. And that's very hard to do when passions are so inflamed and there's so much violence and so much brutality.

So how do people get there.

KRISTOF: You know, I think a starting point is to reflect on the fact that if you care only about the human rights of people in Israel, or if you care only about the human rights of people in Gaza, then you don't actually care about human rights.

That we fundamentally all are connected by our shared humanity and we need to be pushing for not just ending this war, but for trying to figure out a path forward in the longer run.

And I don't know that that is possible tomorrow or next year, but we need to try to be putting in place conditions so that can be possible. And a starting point is simply to end the war.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's talk about your new book. You're getting rave reviews. Bono of U2 said, quote, "it's a thriller, a chronicle, and a set of keys to our most undervalued resource, hope. Nick's not just chasing hope, he is it.

So tell us Nick, what is there to be hopeful about today.

KRISTOF: Well, it's a little harder when the Middle East is the topic I've got to say and you know, I spent a career as you know, Alisyn covering war and genocide and addiction and poverty, et cetera.

But over that period, I've also seen this real backdrop of progress that we in journalism don't always acknowledge. We cover planes that crash, not things that land.

But there are an awful lot of planes that are landing around the world and, you know, if you think maybe the worst thing that can happen to a person is to lose a child, when I was born one-fifth of all kids died by the age of five. When I graduated from college, 11 percent did. This year, were going to probably set a new all-time record for the lowest share of children dying by a tribe a little more than 3 percent.

And I've got to say Alisyn, I'm sure you've seen this too, that you know, we go to see warlords, we see terrible things happening, but when we, humans are stressed side-by-side with the worst of humanity, you see the very best.

You see just unbelievable people stepping forward and taking risks and trying to help others. I mean, we see some of that in the Middle East too frankly.

CAMEROTA: all the time, Nick, all the time. I see people's humanity. I see the beacons of light and hope. And I know that you have dedicated much of your career to highlighting some of those, including in this new books.

So Nicholas Kristof, thank you for all you do. Great to talk to you.

KRISTOF: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Residents south of Sacramento are forced to leave their homes because of this wildfire that is quickly growing.

We're going to get a live update for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:27]

CAMEROTA: Right now, city officials in Akron, Ohio want anyone with information on last night's mass shooting to come forward and you can do so anonymously. Officers arrived to a chaotic scene where more than two dozen people were shot and one person was killed.

Akron's mayor and police chief released a joint statement saying in part quote, "Our city is reeling after the devastation of senseless violence. With more than two dozen victims, the pain and trauma reverberates across all of Akron today as we search for answers."

The investigation into how this started is ongoing.

Turning to California now, where the growing Corral Fire is forcing people in its path to evacuate. Two firefighters were injured responding to this wildfire.

The corral Fire has burned more than 12,000 acres and officials warn it could spread because of gusty winds and dry conditions.

CalFire Battalion chief Josh Silveira joins me now. Chief, thanks so much for being here. We know that you're busy. What's the latest on the evacuations and the road closures?

JOSH SILVEIRA, CALFIRE BATTALION CHIEF: Evacuations are going to remain in effect. Firefighters are actively engaged in trying to contain this fire. Now they're working in and around the structures near the golf course. And up off of Corral hollow road.

Our goal is to get people back into their homes as quickly as possible. But we need to make sure that it's safe to do so.

[14:20:00]

CAMEROTA: Do you know how many people have been evacuated.

SILVEIRA: I don't have exact numbers on hand. The numbers fluctuated through the night. We're steering people to SJReady.org. It's San Joaquin County's Office of Emergency Services evacuation portal.

And that's got everything that evacuees would need to have support services for themselves, know where the evacuation centers are and then know if they're in one of the areas affected by the evacuations. CAMEROTA: We understand that two firefighters were injured last night. So how are they doing?

SILVEIRA: They're doing well. Both firefighters were transported to local hospitals for evaluation and treatment. They're in stable condition, their injuries were categorized as minor to moderate and just part of department policies are getting them to a burn center to be evaluated and treated.

CAMEROTA: So what's the weather like there and how is it contributing or helping.

SILVEIRA: Today's much different than yesterday, at least so far. Yesterday's conditions were very, very windy, very dry, very warm and we already had a pretty substantial grass crop that had dried out.

today, winds are much lighter. I would go as far as saying they are light and variable. Our temperatures have dropped and our relative humidity has gone up, which is allowing firefighters to really engage, being aggressive in putting good containment lines on the ground and trying to get the upper hand on this fast-moving fire.

CAMEROTA: Well, that's good news. What is the latest on the containment? What's the level of containment right now.

SILVEIRA: Currently the fire is 12,500 acres. Its sitting at 15 percent contained.

We have sensor aircraft over the incident now looking to get us better numbers as far as containment. Given this incident is so spread out trying to get to all of the remote areas and validate lines. The sensor aircraft is the right tool for the job and like I said, they're overhead now getting us updated numbers.

CAMEROTA: What area are you most focused on right now?

SILVEIRA: Currently were focused on the south area of the fire and the west area of the fire.

Those are our recalling open flanks crews are in there right now with heavy equipment, bulldozers. They're putting in direct containment line and that's being backed up by firefighters on the ground, ensuring that all the hotspots are cooled behind them.

CAMEROTA: Well, Chief Silveira, thank you for taking the time. We know that you guys have a herculean effort out there. We really appreciate you.

SILVEIRA: Thank you, guys. I appreciate your time as well.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

All right. If you were watching the program yesterday, you may have been holding your breath along with the rest of us to see if the highly anticipated Boeing Starliner rocket would make its first manned flight to the International Space Station but NASA and its mission partners scrubbed Saturdays launch just minutes before takeoff because of a computer issue.

So we now know they will not attempt another launch today. The team is evaluating new launch dates, possibly this coming Wednesday or Thursday.

Ok. History is about to be made in Mexico. Voters are at the poles right now, and a woman is set to become president for the first time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:27:53]

CAMEROTA: Right now, polls are open in Mexico for what's turning out to be an historic election. For the very first time two women are the front runners to become Mexico's next president.

And more than 20,000 public offices are at stake, making this Mexico's largest election on record. Theres also been a shocking level of violence.

CNN's Gustavo Valdes is in Mexico City for us. So Gustavo, tell us how it's going there.

GUSTAVO VALDES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's going with a lot of enthusiasm and frustration because we saw long lines in several polling places here in Mexico City hours prior to the opening of the polls, but also the National Institute of Election is reporting that about 20 percent of the polling places in the country experienced delay opening of about two hours or more, in some places especially the special polling places, these are the places where people who are from out of state, people who are on vacation, who want to vote in the presidential race, they have a limited number of a ballots and the number of people who want to vote exceeds that number.

So we've seen some of that frustration, but also the enthusiasm because they see this as a historic moment beyond the fact that there are two women on the top of the preferences here.

They think it is going to be a woman, the next president. They are not looking at the gender. They're looking beyond that.

And also in play in this context is the legacy of President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, who has become a political force. So the voters here see Claudia Sheinbaum, who represents Morena, the party Lopez Obrador's party as a continuation of those plans, those projects that he started versus Xochitl Galvez, who is the opposition. And she's trying to take the country on a different direction.

VALDES: And Xochitl Galvez represents a coalition of parties that they saw how powerful Morena was and they decided that the only way to defeat them was to present a unified front.

CAMEROTA: And Gustavo, what about public safety? I know that's one of the main issues as you say, driving voters. So have there been any incidents today.

[14:30:07]

VALDES: So far, they have not reported any major instance. The Institute of Elections said that they've have -- have had a few minor incidents. We're waiting to see in which ones are those perhaps the worst of the cases was announced over the weekend in southern Mexico to municipalities had to cancel elections altogether because of the fear of violence. This is something in the mind of all voters. We've talked to and they're hoping that today, it's a peaceful day.

CAMEROTA: Yes, we all are.

Gustavo Valdes, thank you very much.

So, Gustavo was saying, today's historic election has been overshadowed by some shocking political violence and dozens of candidates have been assassinated in the lead up to today's vote.

CNN's Rafael Romo has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It happened in broad daylight. A mayoral candidate in Mexico shot in the head on the last day of campaigning.

ANA MARIA SALAZAR, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: He was killed in front of all his followers, and he had 10 people who were supposed to be providing him security because he had been threatened.

ROMO: The murder is the latest example of a wave of political violence in Mexico as voters get ready to go to the polls on Sunday.

In early April, another mayoral candidate in the city of Celaya was gunned down, one of more than 20 political killings in September, according to the Mexican government.

By some estimates, that number is even higher. At least 34 candidates murdered, according to Mexican consultancy firm Integralia.

SALAZAR: One of the most violent and deadly elections in Mexican history.

ROMO: Former U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Ana Maria Salazar says organized crime is at the root of most political violence in Mexico.

SALAZAR: Well, they're controlling the economy, the former economy of these -- of these municipalities. So they're hostages. And this is clearly being reflected during this electoral process, where they're trying to also control who's going to be elected.

ROMO: Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador acknowledged in early May that there have been more murders than in previous administrations. But he also said that other crimes like robberies and kidnappings are down.

CARLOS RAMIREZ, POLITICAL RISK CONSULTANT, INTEGRALIA: It's a multidimensional problem, which Lopez Obrador hasn't tackled.

ROMO: But Political Risk Consultant Carlos Ramirez says the president's policy of spending on social programs in the hopes of improving the security situation has failed.

RAMIREZ: Yes, Lopez Obrador cherishes that some of the criminal numbers have been going down, but really they have been going down marginally and others have been going up very quickly as extortion, for example.

ROMO: There are nearly 99 million Mexican voters who are eligible to participate in this election. Mexican officials say there will be around 170,000 polling places around the nation. But security analysts say many voters may choose to stay away because in some areas exercising one's right to vote is not safe.

The threat of political violence is personal for Jesus Corona.

The mayoral candidate in the central Mexican city of Cuautla survived an assassination attempt earlier this year when two men on a motorcycle sped past and opened fire.

They want me to drop out of the campaign, he said. They don't want me to participate. They want to continue with this corrupt government.

The risk of violence is also faced by those tied to the candidates, including relatives and aides. According to Integralia, more than 700 people have been threatened, kidnapped, extorted or murdered, among other crimes, since campaigns started in September.

Rafael Romo, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Back here, days after a New York jury found Donald Trump guilty, the former president says he's okay with going to jail.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:38:43]

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump's sentencing for his criminal conviction is scheduled for July 1st and he now says he's okay if the judge sends him to jail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS: Set the arraignment date for four days before the RNC.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yeah. Well, that's part of the game.

HEGSETH: It is -- someone suggested you could appeal straight to the Supreme Court because of the special nature of this case.

When it comes to the legal (AUDIO GAP).

The judge could decide to say house arrest or even jail.

TRUMP: He could. He could.

HEGSETH: What that would look like?

TRUMP: I'm okay with it. I saw one of my lawyers the other day on television saying, Oh, no, you don't want to do that to the pres -- I said, you don't beg for anything. You've just -- the way it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's discuss this and so much more with "Axios" senior contributor and director of Syracuse University's Institute for Democracy Journalism, and Citizenship, Margaret Talev.

Margaret, great to see you.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You, too, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: So, Margaret, neither you nor I are judges sadly, but it's hard to see how a former president is sentenced to jail for falsifying business records. Do you agree?

TALEV: I do. And I think that's the conventional wisdom and I think that Donald Trump and his team probably see that too. I know there's been a tremendous amount of speculation over the weekend with people saying maybe he will actually. You know, we're going to find out soon enough.

[14:40:02]

But either way you can count on this, what you heard him say in this Fox interview is something that he's saying because he believes it will help his purposes politically. He believes that a message like that will resonate with his base, with his supporters, and will, you know, juice turnout heading into this election year.

So he also said that at a certain point, it was sort of the argument like, well, I'm fine with it, but the public may not be. He said at a certain point, there's a breaking point and I think there is a quite a fair amount of concern about what that means. Does it presage an actual effort on his part or his campaign's part to make people angry about it? Or is he just saying he doesn't think his supporters will stand for it? Is it a dog whistle to violence or is it not intended that way at all, but could it have that consequence?

CAMEROTA: Well, we can certainly understand why people would be concerned about that because we've seen the history of how Donald Trump's supporters hear the things that he says and how it does drive them to violent uprisings.

In the meantime, let's talk about something else truly astonishing. The Republicans like former Trump opponent Nikki Haley, who only recently until recently was running against him, who said that she believed Americans would never support or vote for a convicted felon. She's now saying that she will vote for him. What is that, Margaret?

TALEV: I mean, largely, the party is circling the wagons around their soon to be nominee. And as you know, his nomination date is set for four days after his current sentencing date. We saw New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu, very close Haley supporter and often critic of Trump, who's my been very much modulating as Nikki Haley has modulated his point of view.

Larry Hogan right now really is the Republican outlier, and he's pretty lonely out there on the front lines as a Senate candidate, telling people they should respect the actions of the jury.

CAMEROTA: Here's Governor Chris Sununu on CNN this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Donald Trump is now a convicted felon. Are you comfortable voting for him in November?

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: Oh, sure. People in America want change. They do. This is as -- this is how bad Joe Biden is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Oh sure. He's now comfortable.

I mean, do they think -- you could at this so much longer and steeped in it more than I, Margaret? Do you -- do they think that their supporters like for instance, Nikki Haley, does she think that her supporters will forget that she said that there was no way, no how Americans would vote for a convicted felon? Does Chris Sununu thing that people forget what he had said about Donald Trump before this?

TALEV: Maybe, but I'm also not sure that its about locking eyes with their supporters at this moment. You know, Nikki Haley wants to remain a viable Republican candidate and would like to be president someday. And this is what she's calculated needs to be done.

Yes. Voters have a short memory and many voters, as we've seen in poll after poll and focus group after focus group are not even actually really locked in yet on the contours of the 2024 race. But that Nikki Haley bloc of voters, particularly in a couple of the key battleground states like Pennsylvania, really could be pivotal, regardless of what she has said, regardless of her saying, given the two alternatives, Biden's actually the worst one.

Nikki Haley voters wouldn't have been Nikki Haley voters if they felt that way. And so this remains one of the most interesting and potentially pivotal blocs of the electorate, even though as she is sort of come around and I guess endorsed Donald Trump. Now at this point, are -- is the Nikki Haley block in Pennsylvania going to go that way or not?

CAMEROTA: And hash -- I don't know if she's endorsed him or just so that she'll vote for him.

TALEV: Right.

CAMEROTA: OK, fine. But we -- our John King went to Doylestown, Pennsylvania, to talk to some of them. It was really fascinating to hear. They don't fall in lockstep with Nikki Haley. They obviously have their own opinions about what they want to do in November and it was really interesting to hear from them.

There is some new polling out showing how the verdict is playing with voters. So I'll pull this up for you. This is a "Reuters"/Ipsos poll 14 percent of Republicans say they will not vote for Trump because of his conviction. That's interesting. I mean, were still a long way away, 58 percent of independents say they would not vote for him because of the conviction but -- again, I mean, November is a long way away and politics, where do you think?

TALEV: Yeah. I think these are signposts as you know, but just to remind viewers, national polls do not tell us what its going to happen in individual states.

[14:45:10]

The Electoral College is different than the popular vote. And what somebody says in the first week of June may have no bearing on how they feel in November.

But with all those caveats, if this race were to be a one or two percentage point race in key states, and if 14 percent of Republicans who might have voted for Donald Trump or would now not, obviously that could be determinative.

So, it's not going to change the way most of the base feels. We've already seen that. But again, if it's a close race, that sort of sentiment, and these are not necessarily voters who will then go vote for Joe Biden. But if they don't vote for Donald Trump, that alone could be determinative in a close race. So this really does bear watching.

CAMEROTA: Margaret Talev, always great to talk to you. Thanks for being here.

TALEV: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: A new CNN original series examines the geopolitics of the Cold War through the lens of two double agents, as the spy wars advanced in the shadows, they threatened to destabilize diplomatic efforts. Betrayals deepened, lives were like lost and some spies had to plan their escapes.

Here's a preview of "SECRETS AND SPIES: A NUCLEAR GAME".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With the nature of what were talking about there are some things that I really cannot go into. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the 1980s --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tensions were very, very high.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Soviet Union had 33,000 nuclear weapons.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This can bring the end of the world. Everything got out of control.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the competition is a nuclear competition, spying is extraordinarily important.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Russians were trying to spy on us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was actually spying for the KGB.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were spying on them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody had any idea that I was looking secretly for Britain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spies take an enormous risks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They used radioactive paint on our cars to track us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was really frightened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If discovered, they're facing a death sentence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The CIA was completely compromised.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a mole somewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very difficult to determine whom you can trust.

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Nuclear conflict could well be mankind's last.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The real story what's not in the public.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We feel like it's a race against time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spy versus spy. This can have catastrophic consequences.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a war, a secret war.

ANNOUNCER: "SECRETS AND SPIES: A NUCLEAR GAME", premieres tonight at 10:00 on CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:52:19]

CAMEROTA: It's game on for one college baseball team, though that team does not even have a school anymore. The doors at Birmingham Southern closed permanently on Friday, but some late in a heroics mean the Panthers baseball team still has a shot at winning their championship.

CNN's Coy Wire has our sports news -- Coy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn. The Florida Panthers are the first team since 2009 to go to back-to-back Stanley Cup Finals the year after losing.

Florida facing the New York Rangers in front of their home fans Saturday night. Sam Bennett getting the Cats on the board, first in the first with a thunderous just one timer from the circle, Rangers had the NHL's best regular season record didn't matter. Vladimir Tarasenko adding an insurance goal in the third, and Panthers fans would throw plastic rats onto the ice after the two-to-one, continuing the longstanding tradition dating back to the teams for cup final appearance in 1996.

The Panthers now face the winner, the Oiler-Stars series with a chance to win the first title in team history.

ALEKSANDER BARKOV, FLORIDA PANTHERS CAPTAIN: We all know job is not finished, so get that big prize, and work really hard for it.

MATTHEW TKACHUK, FLORIDA PANTHERS FORWARD: It's a special for us to be back in this position after such a tough loss last year. I just remember going around block after losing in game five against Vegas, going on and telling everybody we'll be back, we'll be back. Well, we're back right now, so were really excited.

WIRE: And check this out, Coach Paul Maurice telling his players, don't touch the trophy. Last year, they touched the conference's Prince of Wales trophy, then lost in the Stanley Cup final. Its longstanding NHL tradition that you never touch a trophy until you lift the Stanley Cup after winning it all.

Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese facing off in the WNBA for the first time since March Madness when 20-some million people tuned in to see their college game. Clark finishing with 11 points, becoming the first rookie to score 150 with 50 rebounds and 50 assists in their first ten games. Reese making history, too, 13 rebounds, eight of them offensive, the most by a rookie in Chicago Sky history.

But then controversy. Chennedy Carter making a shot and then blindsided Clark, the two-time national player of the year tumbled to the floor. Reese and teammates celebrating. Fever, though, would celebrate in the end getting their first home win, 71-70.

Here's Clark on the controversial foul.

CAITLIN CLARK, INDIANA FEVER GUARD: It wasn't expected, but I think it's just like just respond, come down, let your play do the talking. It is what it is. It's a physical game, go make the free throw and then execute on offense.

CHENNEDY CARTER, CHICAGO SKY GUARD: I ain't answering no Caitlin Clark questions.

REPORTER: Did she say anything to you?

CARTER: I don't know what she said.

REPORTER: What you say to her?

[14:55:01]

CARTER: I didn't say anything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's enough.

WIRE: Finally, a story fit for a movie script. Due to financial difficulties, Birmingham Southern College closed permanently on Friday after being open since 1856. But their baseball team earned a spot in the Division 3 College World Series.

They lost their firm first game on Friday, the day the school closed. One more loss in their done but Saturday night against Randolph-Macon, with the score tied and the bottom of the ninth, Jackson Webster keeping what he's calling the baseball miracle alive, hitting that game winning home run, they were trailing 7-4 at one point in this game, and check get the wild scenes back home in Alabama.

The Panthers have another game this afternoon at 3:00 Eastern. If they're victorious in another must-win game, they'll play again Monday. Either way, an inspiring run despite losing their school, Alisyn, they said it feels like they've lost a family member, but that they've been bonded by adversity.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Coy, thank you very much.

And we have an update to one of those stories. It's just in. The WNBA upgraded the foul call against Chicago Sky guard Chennedy Carter, that was on Kaitlan Collins. I mean, sorry, Caitlin Clark, Kaitlan Collins is talented, but she isn't Caitlin Clark.

This foul is now a flagrant one, which the league defines as, quote, unnecessary and or excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent.

Okay. That's why they don't let me do sports.

Meanwhile, Hunter Biden's trial starts tomorrow. We have the latest.

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