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Trump Ok With Jail Or House Arrest After New York Conviction; Israeli Defense Minister Says No Deal If Hamas Allowed To Rule Over Gaza; Hunter Biden Set To Stand Trial In Delaware Tomorrow; Voters In Mexico; U.S. Poll Shows Financial Pressure; Atlanta State Of Emergency. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired June 02, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Deadly terrain. A cliff. And from that high ground, highly trained German machine gunners. Roughly 2500 American men died that day on the beaches of Normandy.

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TAPPER (on-camera): "D-DAY, WHY WE STILL FIGHT FOR DEMOCRACY" airs tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern on "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER."

Back to you.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Cannot wait to watch that.

Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Alisyn Camerota. I'll see you back here tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. and CNN NEWSROOM continues with Jessica Dean right now.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean in Washington.

And we begin with former president now convicted felon, Donald Trump, saying he'd be OK with serving prison time. This of course just days after he was found guilty of all charges in his hush money criminal trial. But as he awaits his sentencing for July 11th, the Republican candidate for president warns a prison or house arrest sentence could lead to a breaking point among his supporters.

Here he is on FOX News this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS HOST: Set the arraignment date for four days before the RNC.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, well, that's part of the game.

HEGSETH: Somewhat suggested you could appeal straight to the Supreme Court because of the special nature of this case.

TRUMP: Yes.

HEGSETH: When it comes to the legal maze -- they couldn't, the judge could decide to say, hey, house arrest or even jail. How do you face what that could mean?

TRUMP: I'm OK with it. I saw one of my lawyers the other day on television saying, oh, no, you don't want to do that to -- I said, you don't beg for anything. You just the way it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: In the past, Trump has threatened to seek revenge if reelected, for example, saying he would appoint a special prosecutor to, quote, "go after Biden and his family." And today when he was asked about that, he seemed to skirt around the question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's a very interesting question. My revenge will be success. And I mean that. But it's awfully hard when you see what they've done. These people are so evil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Here now to discuss this is senior columnist of "The Daily Beast," Matt Lewis, and CNN senior national security analyst and professor at the Harvard Kennedy School, Juliette Kayyem.

Great to see both of you.

Matt, let's start first with you and talk a little bit about this breaking point. The breaking point comment from Trump. Look, he certainly wants his followers to remain his followers, to remain absolutely loyal to him. What else is he trying to get across with that language?

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, I think it's another veiled threat, like I'm more than willing, you know, to go to jail and sacrifice, but be careful if you do it. I can't say how my supporters are going to react. They could -- you know, they could do something that would be very unfortunate. Who knows?

I think this is a veiled threat and you really -- if one thing we know about Donald Trump ultimately he will find a way to whine about it and to make a big deal out of whatever happens. He's not going to be like, hey, if they send me to jail, so be it. That's what the judge decided. Like he may say that today. No. He'll be treated worse than Abraham Lincoln, worse than any president in history, right? So, you know, stay tuned. He's going to change his tune on that one.

DEAN: And Juliette, I'm just curious from your perspective, your national security background and perspective, we see something like January 6th, where his words were being heard and then acted upon by so many of his followers. When he says things a breaking point for my supporters, that sort of thing, what kind of risk does that carry with it?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Increase is the -- what we would call the threat environment. There's no question about it. And just as Matt was saying, Trump knows exactly what he's doing. He sort of washes his hands of it and then says, but I have no idea what these people, my people, will do when he's fully aware of what they're going to do because he wants them or he directs them as we saw in January 6th.

But as I wrote in "The Atlantic" today, there is something different going on, and I think you're seeing it with some of the madness with Trump and his people about what exactly should be a strategy. I worried on Thursday that he would sort of do a January 6th type launching, right? You have a date, a place, a time for July 11th, the sentencing. And what you're seeing Trump do is back away a little bit from that direction I think because the calculation has got to be different for him.

He can't protect these people like he did when he was president. And I think he doesn't even know whether he can galvanize them anymore. I was amazed just as a viewer how little -- how few of his people showed up at the courtroom. And so you're seeing, you know, we titled the piece, you know, "Is Trump Stumped" in terms of how to utilize a strategy that would win over voters and not repel them.

[16:05:10]

DEAN: Yes, and it is interesting to hear him now talking about potential prison time because for those 2016 rallies his supporters would chant, lock her up. They were talking about Hillary Clinton, and he was asked about it in an interview. I want to listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They all said lock up, and I felt -- and I could have done it, but I felt it would have been a terrible thing. And then this happened to me, and so I may feel differently about -- Hillary Clinton, I didn't say lock up, but the people would all say, lock her up, lock her up. OK. Then we won, and I say -- and I said pretty openly, I say, all right, come on, just relax, let's go. We got to make our country great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Just for the record, we did hear him say that but, Juliette, do you think if he is -- I want to talk more about if he is sentenced to prison or house arrest, what the kind of fallout we could potentially see?

KAYYEM: So, and look, I have long been saying that I view the Republican Party certainly Trump is utilizing violence or the threat of violence as part of a campaign strategy. And I cannot believe that supporters of Trump are on TV or quoted and not ask the question about, are they endorsing violence as a sort of extension of our democratic differences? So if he's in jail or get some sort of house arrest, they are -- they don't have many tools left.

Trump's greatest success as a -- as a figure in American history is making violence or the threat of violence seem natural, right, seem we sort of don't even pause to reflect on how insane it is that we're talking this way as a democracy, a once a healthy democracy. And I think, I think at that stage he really will only have one play left, which is to flirt and beckon his people to make a lot of noise because it's chaos that will then give him a narrative that the whole thing is rigged.

DEAN: Matt, there's a new poll out from CBS News that shows 50 percent -- 56 percent of U.S. adults think that Trump got a fair trial. 54 percent of independents thinking it was fair. 86 percent of Republicans think it was unfair. Help square all that math?

LEWIS: I mean, I think -- actually I think it makes total sense, right? We live in two Americas. The Trump voters are watching different news. We might not even want to call it news sometimes. They're getting different information, including from Donald Trump, and I think that's one of the real horrible things that Trump has done, right? Even if there is no violence in the wake of, you know, sentencing, he has already done so much damage to the social fabric of America.

He has essentially delegitimized the courts. Half the country or maybe not half the country, but a lot of people, a lot of Republicans, the majority of Republicans I think at this point think the system is rigged. They believe that Joe Biden has weaponized the Department of Justice and state D.A.s to commit lawfare and to go after their guy, the rightful president as they see him. I mean, I think it's entirely bogus, but that's very, very dangerous.

There is this idea that we've become a banana republic. If you run against the Democrat, we will take you down using the courts. Again I think it's totally bogus but the fact is a lot of Americans believe it, and again, whether there's violence or not, there's already been great damage done to this country by Donald Trump.

DEAN: And Juliette, going off of that point that he just made, first, it's about democracy and elections, right, and just as what keeps our society bound, America, and kind of the tenets and the foundation of this country, free and fair elections, judicial system that, you know, on its best eight is supposed to be fair, and people can get a fair trial, innocent until proven guilty.

When you start to erode at those fundamental tenets of what makes America unique and America, what does that do for just how our society is knitted together and the damage that Matt is talking about?

KAYYEM: Yes. No, that's exactly right, and you know, you think of Trump's legacy well beyond whether he wins or how long he's part of our, of our culture and our politics, that will stick around a long time. But we do know how to address it. And so part of this is, is challenging his supporters and the elites, the politicians, GOP governors, GOP senators about this very question on violence.

[16:10:11]

They skirt around it because they're able to say, well, I'm not sure the election is fair or whatever. We really have to focus on condemning and isolating the violence because, you know, look, it may not be January 6th, but there's a lot of people who are going to be animated and a lot of people who hear what Trump is saying and might be willing, one, to use violence, two, to threaten violence, which there's no question about that.

We hear that from FBI Director Wray in terms of the threat environment in particular for public officials, or three, you know, basically undermine the common thread that has kept this nation together. And so one way to deal with it is to call it out in what it actually is, and not to sort of dance around this idea that, oh, well, maybe there's some votes here for some votes here, and you're starting to see that.

I mean, I don't know if it holds for independents but at least in just one poll, but early -- look, independents are going to make or break this election and violence doesn't pull well with them. And so to continue to push and to call it out, and to make Republicans who support Trump be asked about this specific question is a way to shame it again, because we've lost our ability to shame violence in this democracy. And I blame Trump, but I also blame a lot of people who do not condemn him for it.

DEAN: And Matt, we are already seeing some backlash to some Republicans who aren't falling into line, aren't backing Donald Trump. This morning, the RNC co-chair Lara Trump, who of course is his daughter-in-law, slammed the GOP Senate candidate for Maryland, Larry Hogan, for saying before the verdict that Americans should, quote, "respect the jury's decision." Here's a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARA TRUMP, RNC CO-CHAIR: I think it's ridiculous and I think anybody who's not speaking up in the face of really something that should never again have seen the light of day, a trial that would never have been brought against any other person aside from Donald Trump, doesn't deserve the respect of anyone.

Well, I'll have to get back to you. He doesn't deserve the respect of anyone in the Republican Party at this point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Matt, if you're a Republican running for anything now, do you have to fall in line? Can you say that a jury's verdict should be respected?

LEWIS: Apparently not. I mean, obviously not, right? Larry Hogan was a very good, very popular governor, Republican governor of Maryland. He's running for the U.S. Senate. If Donald Trump happens to win, and he wants to, I don't know, appoint a Supreme Court justice, it might be handy to have some Republican senators to have a majority, and you can't expect, you know, again, what Larry hogan said was common sense. It was a very mainstream sort of innocuous comments. But even if it weren't, if you're a Republican, you're lucky to get a

Republican senator from Maryland. It is a very liberal Democratic state. This is stupid of Donald Trump, but again, I think it sends a signal. The thing with Donald Trump is he does not care about having a Republican majority. He does not care about advancing conservative values or policies. He would prefer a smaller Republican Party that is purer and the sense of loyalty to Donald Trump.

That's what Trump want. He wants every Republican to be 100 percent loyal to him. A smaller, more loyal party beats a larger, less loyal party.

DEAN: All right. Matt Lewis and Juliette Kayyem, our thanks to both of you.

KAYYEM: Thank you.

LEWIS: Thank you.

DEAN: Still to come, waiting for a reply. The Biden administration says it still has not heard from Hamas on this latest hostage and ceasefire deal that's on the table. Meantime, the president's son, Hunter Biden, set to stand trial Monday on federal gun charges. How that could have an impact on Biden's reelection campaign. And later, Atlanta's mayor declaring a state of emergency as the city hits day three of a boil water notice.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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DEAN: New today the Maldives government will ban Israelis from entering the island over the war in Gaza. The country's president last week condemning an Israeli airstrike on a refugee camp in Rafah. Israel's foreign affairs minister responding telling citizens to avoid traveling to the Maldives and urging those already there to leave.

It comes amid rising conflict over potential peace plan between Israel and Hamas. Israel's defense minister saying today and warning that the country will not accept any deal which allows Hamas to rule over Gaza. His comments echoing those of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who pushed back on the plan laid out by President Biden on Friday.

Let's talk more about the White House and its response to all of this. Joining us now CNN's Priscilla Alvarez.

And Priscilla, National Security spokesman John Kirby today seemed to brush aside any negative reaction from Israel on this potential deal, which the president said had come from Israel and been crafted by them.

[16:20:04] PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And generally U.S. officials have tried to strike a tone of optimism when talking about this deal and reaching an agreement, again because they do see it as a priority. But it was the president putting enormous public pressure on all parties involved to reach an agreement. And John Kirby, the National Security Council spokesperson, said earlier today they're still awaiting the official response from Hamas. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: Where we are right now is that proposal, an Israeli proposal, has been given to Hamas. It was done on Thursday night, our time. We're waiting for an official response from Hamas. We would note that publicly Hamas officials came out and welcomed this proposal.

We have every expectations that if Hamas agrees to the proposal as was transmitted to them, an Israeli proposal, that Israel would say yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: To reiterate, this plan includes three different phases. The first being the release of hostages of women, elderly, and the wounded in exchange for Palestinian prisoners, and a six-week ceasefire. Then comes into the second phase where negotiations would -- could potentially continue and include the release of all of the hostages, again for a similar exchange. And then the third being that reconstruction of Gaza, which has been a sticking point because officials have been working on that day-after plan and it is quite complicated particularly when talking about who would rule over Gaza.

So the president knows this isn't going to be easy. He said as much on Friday but he's also going to be traveling to France this week, and the U.S. has found itself quite isolated at times from the rest of the world when it comes to its support of Israel amid the devastating images in Gaza. And so this will be an opportunity for him to talk directly with the French president while he's there. We did see a response from France which said that they were supportive of this proposal.

So we'll see what comes out of those conversations, but certainly the U.S. trying to shore up allies in this moment.

DEAN: And is there any sense at this point about a timeline that -- obviously the White House and the president wants this done as quickly as possible. But any sort of timeline that they're working through? I mean, it was worth noting that the president kept going into let's not miss this moment. And there is, it seems to be a general feeling that the window is closing.

ALVAREZ: It's narrowing.

DEAN: Yes.

ALVAREZ: And there is no doubt that the president coming out to lay this out is significant and really tells you all you need to know about how urgent of a moment this is for this White House, and they have been working around the clock for months now. Remember they had some success in November with some release of hostages. And ever since then, they've been trying to get more of them release as we have unfortunately heard of more deaths of hostages and of course the devastation in Gaza.

And so they're trying to get to the end of this agreement or to reach an agreement at all. But the president also said that this is difficult. It is tricky. Any U.S. official you talk to will tell you and acknowledged that the devil is in the details here and it is incredibly difficult to reach consensus among all of the parties. But they certainly still working through it and they certainly are trying to sound quite hopeful about where this may go. But it is the narrow -- the window is certainly narrowing.

DEAN: Yes. All right. Priscilla Alvarez, for us. Thanks so much for that reporting.

For the first time in Mexico's history, two women are the frontrunners in its presidential election. We're going to take you live to Mexico City where voting is underway.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[16:27:47]

DEAN: Hunter Biden is set to appear in federal court tomorrow on felony gun charges. This is a historic trial for several reasons, but much like Donald Trump's conviction in New York there could be a political impact on top of the legal ramification for the president's son, whatever the outcome of the case ends up being.

CNN reporter Marshall Cohen joining us now.

And Marshall, is there a potential that Hunter Biden will see jail time in this case?

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If he's convicted, absolutely it's possible. These are felony gun charges. We're not quite there at the end of this conclusion yet. We're just getting started. Tomorrow is jury selection, but sure, if he's convicted he could be sentenced to prison but of course his dad has the power to pardon him.

But look, let's just zoom out. How did we get here? Hunter Biden owned a gun for about a week and a half in 2018, and that's what this case is all about. He's facing two charges of lying on a federal form about his past drug use, and he's facing one charge of unlawfully possessing that gun.

It's against federal law, Jessica, if you're a drug user or a drug addict to own a gun. That's what this case is all about. And special counsel David Weiss will kick things off tomorrow with jury selection.

DEAN: And the case here to focus pretty narrowly on his illegal possession of this gun or purchase of this gun. How wide do we think the prosecutors are going to make this case? Will it continue to be pretty narrow or will they broaden it out?

COHEN: You know, they have a whole another case that they have scheduled for later this year in September in L.A. All about his taxes and his extravagant lifestyle, and all the things he spent money on. That's for later. This case in front of us here in Delaware is pretty narrow. It's about the gun purchase, the gun ownership. Prosecutors going to have to prove to the jury that he was using drugs when he bought the gun.

And you know that he's been very open and very honest about his lifelong struggle with addiction.

DEAN: He wrote a whole book about it.

COHEN: He wrote a book about it.

DEAN: Yes.

COHEN: But the prosecutors want to use that book against him. They have excerpts from that book where he described being on drugs around the same time that he bought that gun. They want to use that against him at the trial. They also have e-mails and text messages from his infamous laptop that also, according to prosecutors, paint a picture of someone who was on drugs when he had that gun. They think it could help them get a conviction.

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DEAN: And, in terms of witnesses in this trial, there's a lot of names we know that are likely to be called as witnesses. People that are very personal in his life, too.

COHEN: It's going to be a family affair, Jessica. You know, the President's son is on trial. The widow of his other son, Beau Biden, that's Hallie Biden, who was also in a relationship with Hunter after the death of his brother. She's expected to testify.

Hunter Biden's ex-wife is also expected to testify. Why are they there? Why are they relevant? The prosecutors said, in court filings, that they could tell the jury about his drug use. They want to connect his drug use to the time that he bought and possessed that gun. That's how they could get a conviction. That's how he could possibly get some jail time.

Of course, though, as I said already, the father, President Joe Biden, he has the power to pardon him. He has not been involved at all in this case. He has let everything go by the book, thus far. But you've got to imagine, Jessica, if things don't go well at trial.

DEAN: Yes, there's a lot of political pieces to this as well, in terms -- beyond the trial itself in the personal nature of it. All right. Marshall Cohen, thanks so much. Good to see you.

COHEN: Of course. DEAN: At this hour, voters in Mexico are casting their ballots. Likely

electing the country's first female president. Possibly its first Jewish president. You see voters in action in the largest election in Mexico's history, with more than 20,000 positions at stake.

But shocking violence has accompanied this election. Monitoring groups say dozens of people connected to campaigns have been murdered across Mexico, while this has been going on.

We have Camila Bernal in Los Angeles, but first let's turn to CNN's Gustavo Valdes in Mexico City. Gustavo, it is so jarring for Americans to hear about so much violence, political violence. So many local candidates assassinated, leading up to this election. We know one murdered just last night. What more can you tell us about this?

GUSTAVO VALDES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is one of the main issues, voters have told us, is what's driving them to the polls. There were -- there was a moment of silent this morning, when the National Electoral Institute began their session. They observed a moment of silence in memory of this; 200 plus people who were assassinated in this political period.

This is another example of how the cartels organized crime is flexing its muscle in the political arena. And this is what's worrying the voters who are really enthusiastic about participating in this election.

We saw a long lines of voters in many he places hours prior to the opening of the polls, not only in Mexico but also abroad. Mexicans can vote abroad. And there are almost one hundred million Mexicans participating, who are really worried about the future of this country.

But it is also a referendum on the policies of President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador. And the people we talked to, they were split. Some, they want more continuity, what they've seen in the past six years. And that's the vote represented by Claudia Sheinbaum, who represents the Morena Party.

But many think it's time for a change and they might be going for, perhaps, Xochitl Galvez, who represents a coalition of opposition parties. Who saw the power Modena has and decided to unite forces, in order to have a chance to defeat Modena.

And it's a historic election, also because chances are a woman will be the next president. Something that is not necessarily driving the votes, but has given pride to the voters.

DEAN: All right, Gustavo, thank you so much.

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BELIT GONZALEZ, WRITER, ACAPULCO: How our country has improved in our society. Sometimes people would say that because of the way that the country sees women, that there was no way on earth that that was going to happen. And seeing it be something so -- VALDES: Tangible.

GONZALEZ: -- tangible, it's quite amazing.

DIEGO MESTA, BUSINESSMAN, CHIHUAHUA: It's very important because it keeps power to an inspiration to all the womans. Also, yes, it's a big change in this country that it's been the way (INAUDIBLE.) So, it's very important.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALDES: And, Jessica, this is, perhaps, the most significant consequential foreign election for Americans. The next president is going to set the tone of the bilateral relationship with the United States. That's immigration, trade, crime, drugs. So, this is something that is being looked at very closely on both sides of the border.

DEAN: All right, Gustavo, thank you so much. Live from Mexico City for us.

Let's go now to Camila Bernal who is in Los Angeles, standing outside the Mexican consulate there where eligible Mexicans can also cast their votes right now.

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DEAN: What are they telling you about today's election, Camila?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jess. So, sort of mixed feelings here, because there is a lot of enthusiasm. A lot of people who want to come out to vote. If you take a look here behind me, this is a line that wraps around multiple times around the entire block. So, there are thousands of people here who want to vote.

The problem is that there are many who did not register to vote. Here, in Los Angeles, we were told that only about 1,400 people registered to vote. And then they had about 1,500 additional spots for people who did not register to vote.

So, by 7:00 in the morning local time, they already had about 2,000 people lined up. So, they already knew that those additional spots of 1,500, they were going to be gone early in the morning. So, officials even telling people, you know, if you're not registered to vote, do not come.

In the entire vote, according to the Mexican officials, they expect about 223,000 to come from abroad. And about 70 percent of it coming here from the U.S.

You're hearing them is shout Morena, which is, obviously, the party of the current president and the leading candidate right now. So, a lot of these people, of course, enthusiastic and really excited to vote. The problem is a lot of them will not be able to vote.

And so, look, you're seeing people here who are excited. I've asked them, why are you here? You know, you're in the U.S. And part of what they told me is that their families are there. They're part of this historic election. I'm going to have to get back to you because of, of course, you're seeing what's happening here. Back to you.

DEAN: All right, we're going to make sure Camila is OK. Never good to surround a reporter and shout in her face. So, Camila Bernal, we'll make sure you're alright, and we will check back in with you.

On paper, the U.S. economy is booming, but many Americans aren't feeling it. What may be behind those perceptions, that's next, here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[16:41:36]

DEAN: The economy is running strong right now by nearly every major gage with highs in the Stock Market, powerful strength in the job market. So, why do so many Americans wrongly believe the country is in a recession? Bill Maher wanted to know.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL MAHER, HOST, "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER": And "The Washington Post" says, nearly everything Americans believe about the economy is wrong. So interesting. Fifty-five percent think the economy is shrinking or is in a recession. Could not be the -- more the reverse. Half think unemployment is at a 50-year high. It's four percent. Roughly half think the Stock Markets are down. They are at all-time highs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So, I wanted to bring in the author of that "Washington Post" opinion piece that he was reading there, Catherine Rampell. She's here to break down the Harris Guardian Poll that shows, Catherine, this real mismatch, which you and I have talked about a million times, between facts and feelings. This has been a trend over a long time, but it seems to have really crystalized.

What made you want to write about this poll?

CATHERINE RAMPELL, OPINION COLUMNIST, "THE WASHINGTON POST": What I thought was really interesting about this poll was that it wasn't just a general, broad-brush question about, how do you feel about the economy? We know the answer to that. We've seen lots of polling, suggesting that consumers are very grumpy about the economy. That there is this mismatch, as you've described, between how the economy looks on paper and how people feel about it.

And so, it's a little bit hard to disentangle how much of that is about inflation. How much of that is about other kinds of complaints or perceptions of the economy. So, I thought was -- what was very interesting about this particular poll is that it asked people about those other metrics. It asked about inflation, of course. But also asked, do you think that unemployment, for example, is at a 50-year high? Do you think that Stock Markets are up or down since the beginning of the year?

And so, you can see on specific metrics unrelated to inflation, people's perceptions are somewhat distorted, shall we say, relative to what the metrics show.

DEAN: Yes, I mean, the polling found that a lot of Americans have it pretty wrong. The economy has been growing for about two years now. But more than half, 55 percent, kept saying they think it's in a recession. Why do you think there is this disconnect?

RAMPELL: I think there are a few things going on. One is, of course, that people are still very frustrated, financially pinched by the price growth we have seen to date. Right? Inflation has cooled quite a lot in the past couple of years. But even before that happened, we saw prices rising a lot.

And I think that there are a lot of consumers out there who, unfortunately, wrongly are expecting prices to go back down, which is never the goal. That's not what the fed is looking for. Instead, they are looking for prices to stop growing as quickly.

And that's the path that we're on, even if we're not, you know, at the final objective yet. So, it's partly just kind of frustration lashing out about that particular very reasonable point of pain.

And I think it's also partly about the news diet that many Americans have on those other non-inflation related metrics. Things like misperceptions of unemployment, misperceptions of the Stock Market or whether GDP, the size of the economy, is growing or shrinking.

There's a lot more news coverage that is paid to the negative outcomes.

[16:45:03]

RAMPELL: When these numbers come out and they are poor. When they are -- when they are discouraging. When inflation is high. When the GDP is shrinking. When jobs are lost, for example. There's a lot more coverage of those things than there are of the more positive developments.

And so, as a result, I think that the more negative narrative is much more salient. And that's true, by the way, not only for Republicans who are more likely to be watching news programs like Fox News that are -- that, you know, don't want to talk about the good economic news or want to downplay it.

It's true for Democrats as well. Democrats as well largely think that the economy is in a recession when it's not. So, it's -- you know, there is some sort of partisan mediation through which we interpret this new. But it's largely, I think, this sort of negative news bias that it's easy to blame the media for it.

And I -- you know, I think we journalists should do better. But it's partly because that's what people want to read. That what people want to watch. That's what people want to listen to. There is this negativity bias that we have seen for many, many decades in how people interpret information. And that gets amplified by social media, by the sort of echo chambers that we opt into when we consume our news.

DEAN: Yes. And you also wrote about how economic jargon means different things to different people. To an economist, like you, inflation means exactly how you were laying it out, which is you're not trying to bring the prices back down to where they are. It's to stop the bleeding. To stop the prices from continuing to go up. They may remain much higher than they were before, but that is successful in the sense it's not getting worse.

Is that part of the problem too, is that we're kind of all operating off of different definitions here?

RAMPELL: Yes. So, there is some talking past each other, in the sense that when American -- when the typical American talks about, we're in a recession, I don't think that they necessarily mean the very specific technical thing that economists mean when they're talking about a recession.

Economists mean that the overall direction of economic activity is shrinking. Whether we're talking about the number of jobs out there. The number of stuff we're making, investments, et cetera.

Typical, normal people, you know, lay people, let's say. When they say recession, they might use the term more loosely to mean something like something feels off about the economy right now. Not necessarily, again, the very specific technical thing that economists mean.

So, some of it is just, you know, a difference in usage. The same thing with inflation. Economists, as you point out, when they're talking about inflation, they're talking about the pace of price increases, not the level of prices. And that sounds like a wonky technical term, but -- technical differentiation, but it does mean something very different.

So, Americans, you know, see, like, oh, look, the price of a gallon of milk has gone up a dollar or two. If there -- if it doesn't continue to go up a dollar of two -- a dollar or two in the next year, they're still going to be mad. They're still going to say, look at all the inflation we've had to date.

Whereas economists are going to say, aha, success. Yes, we had that price growth before, but things have leveled out and that's what we're aiming for.

So, some of it is just usage.

DEAN: Yes. All right, Catherine Rampell, always great to see you. Thanks so much.

RAMPELL: Thank you.

DEAN: Authorities in Atlanta are playing Whack-A-Mole, fixing one water main break just in time for another potential one to pop up. We'll have the latest on that city's state of emergency. That's next, here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[16:53:09]

DEAN: A possible new water main break is being investigated in Atlanta. This as the city enters its third day of what is becoming a growing water crisis.

CNN's Rafael Romo is in Atlanta. Rafael, the mayor has declared a state of emergency. So, what do we know about this latest potential break?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we don't know for sure, Jessica, what caused it. But the city's water commissioner was explaining earlier that when their (ph) say any water main break, the pressure in the whole system becomes unstable. Which, in turn, may cause even more breaks, a little bit the way you described it before. Like a game of Whack-A-Mole.

By the way, earlier this hour, the water department said in a statement that that six-inch water main has been turned on, after emergency repairs were completed. Restoring service to 35 homes and four hydrants.

Overnight, city officials said one of two major water main breaks located just west of downtown area was fixed. But, as you can see behind me, city crews are working on the second one that has been gushing water for well over 36 hours now. Actually, closer to 48 hours now.

In the last hour, workers delivered a very large part. Actually, more than two hours ago now. Possibly the one the water commissioner had previously said they needed to fix the break.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL WIGGINS, COMMISSIONER, ATLANTA DEPARTMENT OF WATERSHED MANAGEMENT: We're waiting for a particular part to arrive. We expect for that part to arrive here soon. Once that part arrives, we think that this would be a routine repair. And once the repair is completed, we'll be able to restore water services immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: Atlanta Mayor Andre Dickens said that city workers visited more than 30 senior communities, homeless shelters, hospitals, and other sensors across the city with vulnerable populations, to deliver fresh drinking water and flushing water.

[16:55:05]

ROMO: The mayor also said the city is also getting help from the state. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDRE DICKENS (D), MAYOR, ATLANTA: We have touched more than 30 senior communities, homeless shelters, hospitals, and other centers across the city with vulnerable populations, to deliver fresh drinking water and flushing water, impacting about 10,500 people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: Also, the last hour, we heard from Emory University Hospital Midtown, which announced it is moving back to normal operations. Because water pressure returned to the hospital overnight, after several water main breaks in the area where repaired.

The hospital also said ambulances have resumed normal service at the hospital as well. Although they will continue to provide a bottled water to patients, visitors, and staff, because there's still a boil advisory in the city.

Jessica, back to you.

DEAN: All right, Rafael Romo for us with the latest from Atlanta. Thanks so much.

Still to come. When asked whether he'd seek revenge for his 34 felonies, former President Donald Trump says, that's an interesting question. More on his response. That's next. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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