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White House Waits for Hamas Response for Ceasefire Proposal; Trump Awaits Sentencing; NYSE Investigates Technical Issue; GOP Spreads Lies About "Rigged" Trump Verdict. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 03, 2024 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And we will see whether they have any further response today from the White House to Netanyahu's claim so far this morning that he has not agreed to all elements of this proposal.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Major Lyons, let's say that this peace proposal is accepted by all sides and Hamas agrees to release the hostages. Do we know the condition of those hundred or so hostages and what will it take logistically to get them out?

MAJOR MIKE LYONS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, I think, first and foremost, to remove the idea from Gaza, it's a significant logistical challenge. Number one, it'll stop momentum for the military's mission right now, as it's changed its tactics. It's not doing the same it did in the past, going in heavy in Rafah, for example, as they did in Gaza City and other places. And that's what -- why the Biden administration continues to support them.

But it would be a challenge in order to figure out that second phase. And once the IDF is out of -- that took six weeks, what if that second phase doesn't come to fruition? What if Hamas refuses to release those hostages? And now, you have the momentum of the military operation being thwarted, and it would be difficult to restart.

So, when you phase this operation like this, it puts Israel at a disadvantage, and I think that's why They're concerned. It also doesn't accomplish the primary objective of having Hamas out of power, not being control of Gaza in the future. And that's the biggest concern of those Israeli lawmakers, which should be concerned. A total victory is what they're speaking to right now. And from a military perspective, they're not stopping until somebody from Hamas says we surrender. They want to hear those magic words.

CAMEROTA: Jeremy, the families of the hostages want this ceasefire plan. So, do their wishes influence Netanyahu?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's no question that it plays a part. In particular, it plays a part in influencing the Israeli public's perception of all of this. A new poll actually just came out today from Channel 11 in Israel, saying that 40 percent of Israelis support the current deal that's on the table. 27 percent oppose it, 33 percent are unsure. And so, it shows you that there is quite a split within the Israeli public over this deal.

While a plurality of the public seems to support it those aren't necessarily the Israeli prime minister's supporters. And he has -- of course, Netanyahu has a reputation for focusing on his public political survival often at the expense of other things. And most of the Israeli public tends to believe that Netanyahu himself is prioritizing his political survival over what is necessarily best for the country.

That being said, the Israeli prime minister has actually seen his popularity rise over the course of the last month or so, and the popularity of Benny Gantz, his chief political rival, actually go down. And so, that is certainly playing into all of this. Netanyahu is reading these polls. He's seeing which way the Israeli public is leaning, and he's also trying to figure out what the best way is for him to secure his long-term status as prime minister and to try and win another term should elections return.

CAMEROTA: Jeremy Diamond, Arlette Saenz, Major Mark -- Mike Lyons, thank you very much for all of the information this morning.

Coming up, Former President Donald Trump says he's OK with going to jail, but of course, he is planning to appeal his conviction. And that could go beyond the election. How this process plays out, next.

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[10:35:00]

CAMEROTA: As a convicted felon, Donald Trump now awaits sentencing. Last week, a jury found him guilty on all 34 counts in his criminal hush money trial. His fate, which could include prison, is in the hands of Judge Juan Merchan, whom Trump attacked throughout the proceedings. But there's also a chance that Donald Trump does not face any sentence. His legal team plans to appeal the verdict.

Let's discuss his chances with CNN Legal Analyst Jennifer Rodgers, former federal prosecutor Shan Wu, CNN Political Commentator Shermichael Singleton, and former special assistant to President Biden, Meghan Hays. Great to have all of you here.

OK. To our lawyers, Jennifer and Shan, show of hands, do either of you believe that this conviction could be overturned on appeal?

Neither of you are raising your hands. Now, Shan, let me start with you because some of our legal guru family have suggested that this case was predicated on such a novel concept of turning these misdemeanors, falsifying business records into a felony that it could be -- it could come apart at appeal. So, what are your thoughts on that, Shan?

SHAN WU, DEFENSE ATTORNEY AND FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: This was not a novel legal theory, this was a novel defendant. That's the important distinction. That particular combination of the misdemeanor, falsification of business records to further another crime, that combination has been used thousands of times by the Manhattan District Attorney's Office. There's nothing novel about that.

Yes, this defendant's circumstance was novel. And so, there could be something about the jury instructions, how they're using that particular combination, particularly with him being a presidential candidate at that time. But overall, the spinning of the case as being a novel, untested theory is really wrong. So, I'm not too worried about that issue.

CAMEROTA: Jen, your thoughts?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. I mean, I probably shouldn't caveat. But if you said it could be overturned, of course it could be overturned. I don't think it will be overturned.

There is some novelty here, to be fair. The use of a federal election law statute, and it's not the predicate offense, but when you get down to what the unlawful means are, and you say the unlawful means are a federal election law offense, that has not been given the stamp of approval on appeal in New York courts. And that's really the issue here.

[10:40:00]

CAMEROTA: Right. So, why wouldn't that -- yes. So, I hear you and I've heard that before. So, why, Jen, wouldn't that make it ripe for appeal?

RODGERS: Well, it's ripe for appeal.

CAMEROTA: Oh, OK, right. Ripe for overturning the conviction.

RODGERS: Yes, he will appeal on that ground. The issue is that because it's -- you know, this -- so, there's the fraudulent records, then that's in connection with another crime, which is a New York State election crime to influence the election, and that has to be done by unlawful means. But you don't have to prove that crime that is the unlawful means. And that's where they used this federal election crime.

So, to me, because that's not actually a crime whose elements you need to charge, I don't think it's a problem that it's a federal crime. But, you know, sure, anytime you have something that hasn't actually been litigated specifically and the Court of Appeals had said, yes, this is OK, there's a small opening there, but I don't see, legally, when you think through the analysis, why it actually would be overturned on that basis.

CAMEROTA: All right. Shan, another legal question. Do you think that it is highly unlikely that a judge would sentence a former president to jail? And if so, what are the other possible punishments?

WU: I don't think it's highly unlikely. I do think it's unlikely in this case for two reasons. One, he doesn't have a criminal history. But two, Merchan has already telegraphed he doesn't like the idea of sending a potential president to jail. So, I think it's unlikely. It's certainly not highly unlikely or out of the question. Alternatives would include sentencing him to a term and then suspending it all. Basically, keeping him on probation for a number of years. There could -- if you wanted him to be confined in some way, of course, there's home confinement with the ankle bracelet rather than actually putting him, you know, at Rikers Island or some facility like that. But I think probation is possible long-term of that.

It's important to add, though, it wouldn't be unprecedented to have someone with no criminal history be sentenced to some term of jail. I mean, Martha Stewart comes to mind from, you know, a while back. And the judge has to weigh the gravity of this particular scheme he was doing in terms of its general harm to the voting public, as well, of course, his very bad behavior with violating the gag orders.

CAMEROTA: Shermichael, the conviction so far has worked out very well for Donald Trump in terms of dollars. He's fundraised millions off of it. Do we have any polling or data points yet on how voters feel about this?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I mean, look, it has reinvigorated Trump supporters in a way that I'm not certain any other things could have. Alisyn, you saw some reporting indicated within 24, 48 hours the campaign raised around $53, $54 million. The highest amount, I think, of any presidential candidate in such a short time span. And so, that's certainly going to add a boost to the campaign's coffers.

I think strategically speaking, however, the next question for the campaign becomes as you see these dollars increase, as you see some indication that the former president may have some level of appeals with groups that Republicans have traditionally struggled with, are you now building out the campaign operations to then target those individuals to make sure that they're registered to vote, to discuss with them the possibility of early voting, mail in ballots, et cetera? That sort of talks about the sort of campaign operations that you would like to see the campaign begin to do.

So, it's one thing to raise a lot of dollars, but are they building the necessary infrastructure to sort of activate some of those new individuals that may now be giving the former president a second look?

CAMEROTA: Meghan, as we're all painfully aware, Donald Trump supporters are not above turning to violence when they're angry or to get what they want. And Donald Trump often sounds like he's encouraging it. He's also been quite clear about how he would use the justice system to attack his political enemies. I mean, even before this conviction, here's what he said just this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a very interesting question and I say it -- and it's -- you know, my revenge will be success. And I mean that. But it's awfully hard when you see what they've done. These people are so evil. I'm not sure the public would stand for it. With a --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're saying, you -- house arrest, you're --

TRUMP: I think it would be tough for the public to take. You know, at a certain point, there's a breaking point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Meghan, what do you think happens next?

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: Yes, I mean, I think that he has made his character very clear. He's been convicted now of 34 felony counts. And his character is clear here. I don't think it's appropriate to speak like that. I don't think it's -- he's a person who is going to have revenge. He's said that. He's been very clear about what his intentions are and how he's going to use his justice system.

But to Shermichael's point, I think that's great that they've raised all this money. Where is this money going? Is that going to his legal fees or is that going to build an operation? And I think that the Biden campaign has been really diligent in building out their operation to get those voters who actually don't agree with this and actually won't give him a second look now.

And, you know, this is going to be run on the margins. And I think that the Biden campaign is doing what they need to be doing to reach those voters in these like five or six battleground states. So, he can be out there and he can have divisive rhetoric. But I just, at the end of the day, don't think that that's a winning strategy.

[10:45:00]

CAMEROTA: OK. Everyone, stay with me if you would, because when we come back, we have much more on Donald Trump's latest efforts to appeal his felony conviction.

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CAMEROTA: This just in to CNN, the New York Stock Exchange is now investigating a technical issue that's caused stocks like Berkshire Hathaway and dozens of others to be put on pause. The New York Stock Exchange says the problem is connected to a system designed to prevent volatile changes in stock prices. We will keep an eye on this, keep you updated with all the latest developments as soon as we get them.

[10:50:00]

OK. I'm back with my panel about what's next following Donald Trump's criminal conviction. So, Jennifer, if Donald Trump wins in November, can he make all of this go away? If they slow roll their appeals process -- not even slow roll, just the appeals process takes a long time. And if he wins, is it all over anyway?

RODGERS: It's not all over. He can't pardon himself. They can't dismiss it in any way because it's state, not federal. But there's no way that a president of the United States is going to be made to serve any sort of sentence. So, if he wins, whenever the appeals are done, and he actually has to serve whatever sentence is imposed, even if it's probation, he would certainly sue in federal court and they would say that it has to be stayed until after his term, because the president is so busy.

I mean, for all the same reasons. We see that the Office of Legal Counsel has said you can't try a president while they're president. He would not be required to serve any sentence while he's actually serving.

CAMEROTA: Shermichael, some of Republicans, well, many are -- seem to be echoing Donald Trump's rhetoric. I mean, this weekend, Republican Senator Marco Rubio, who, as you well know, you know, for a long time was considered sort of the next generation of rational Republicans, he tweeted, fight fire with fire. What does all of this mean?

SINGLETON: I mean, I don't know exactly what the senator meant by that, but I do think it's a good opportunity to get Republicans, Alisyn, to vote in November, to make phone calls, to put up yard signs.

So, again, in the previous segment, I was talking about building that campaign operations. You're going to need volunteers to knock on those doors. You're going to need volunteers to assist people with registering to vote, particularly some of those new individuals who may have never voted before, where Trump sort of has somewhat of an advantage compared to President Biden.

So, I would sort of tamper down the rhetoric. I understand people being frustrated. But this, to me, presents a unique opportunity to say, let's use that frustration to build the campaign operations that is necessary to yield a victory come this November.

CAMEROTA: And, Meghan, potential Trump running mate in North Dakota, Governor Doug Burgum, dismissed the impact of the verdict. He said that voters don't care about the trial. They will focus on things that affect them, like inflation. And that's probably true. I mean, of course voters care about their kitchen table issues more than they care about what's happening. I mean, we've seen that historically. But do we think that the people on the margins will -- that this will have an impact?

HAYS: I do think it will have an impact. I think the early polling is starting to show that. There's a poll out that's saying that 67 percent of the people don't think that Trump should continue running. But I also -- I disagree with Shermichael a little bit that, yes, we need to tamp down the rhetoric, but these people are at a race to be the VP candidate and they're at a race so they -- that show -- proved their loyalty to Donald Trump.

It's just despicable that they are all coalescing behind something with this very divisive and very harmful rhetoric to our democracy. It's just -- it's really upsetting and it's gross. And I think that this is showing the worst in politicians and in the leadership that we have right now on the Republican side.

CAMEROTA: Shan, it's really distressing to hear so many. Public people, politicians rejecting the verdict and really trying to undermine the integrity of the justice system. They say that it was -- you know, they use some of Trump's lingo that it was rigged. The issue with the justice system is you win some, you lose some. That's how it works. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

And with the indictments and the charges that are against Donald Trump, he's on balance winning. I mean, this is just one of the cases. There are three others that were widely considered to be stronger. And what's the status of those and if those will happen before the election?

WU: Well, I wouldn't say he's winning the other ones, they just haven't gone to trial yet. So, I think you could view it as he's lost one and there are three that are still to be played.

CAMEROTA: I guess, I mean, in terms of the time -- the reason I said winning was because it seems like some of the judges are predisposed to slow some of this down until after the election.

WU: Yes. I don't think there's a very good chance at all that any of the others are going to get tried now before the election. Certainly, the documents case in Florida, the mishandling of the classified information, that's completely derailed by the judge's slowness down there, holding aside her motive. And the Georgia one is also pretty tied up. I'm not even sure there's a trial date set yet.

So, I think this is probably the only one that's actually going to have, gone to a resolution before the election. And the D.C. one is still on hold as well, which is the actual January 6th insurrection election interference case. And, of course, you know, we're still waiting for the United States Supreme Court inexplicably still has not ruled on Trump's immunity issues. So, you're absolutely right, those other three don't look like they're going anyplace fast.

CAMEROTA: Jennifer, do you agree that it's inexplicable that the Supreme Court hasn't made a ruling yet?

[10:55:00]

RODGERS: I mean, listen, I don't think they're necessarily slow rolling it. I think there's a division in the court on what they're going to do here. And there are a lot of other really important outstanding cases, too. They've been slow on everything for years now, and this year is no exception. We'll get it by the end of the month. And it's too bad that that's going to be too late for this case to go to trial.

CAMEROTA: All right. Everyone, thank you very much. Really appreciate all of your input.

SINGLETON: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: And thanks, everyone, for joining me this morning. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Our next hour of "Newsroom" starts after a very quick break.

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