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Day 3 of Hunter Biden's Gun Trial Underway; Now, Biden in Normandy for 80th Anniversary of D-Day; Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA) Says House Republicans Might Be in a Cult. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired June 05, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Alisyn Camerota in today for Jim Acosta.

We are following several breaking stories at this hour. Hunter Biden is back in court and the first witness in his federal gun trial is on the stand.

Plus, the new Wall Street Journal article on President Biden's fitness for office, how the White House is responding.

And you are looking at live pictures from NASA. In this hour, Boeing will make its third attempt to launch two astronauts aboard its first ever Starliner rocket to the International Space Station. We will bring you the launch live.

But, first, witness testimony is underway on day three of Hunter Biden's federal gun trial. Yesterday, prosecutors used Biden's own words against him. They played portions of an audio book of his 2021 memoir.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUNTER BIDEN, PRESIDENT BIDEN'S SON: I possessed a new superpower, the ability to find crack in any town at any time, no matter how unfamiliar the terrain. It was easy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: But they reminded the jury that this is not a drug case, telling them, quote, we would not be here today if he was just an addict. Addiction may not be a choice, but lying and buying a gun is.

Meanwhile, the defense leaned into Hunter Biden's struggles with addiction. Their message, the evidence does not show he was using drugs when he bought the gun.

Evan Perez is outside the court this morning for us. So, Evan, what's going to happen today?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, we just saw just a short while ago, Kathleen Buhle, Hunter Biden's ex-wife, arrive in court. We expect that she is going to be the next witness after the defense has finished cross examining the FBI agent who the prosecution has used to establish a lot of that evidence that you just talked about. They introduced the infamous laptop. They showed pictures and video. They showed text messages from people who they say he bought drugs from. They showed the gun. They showed drug paraphernalia, crack pipe, all of that displayed in a very large screen for the jury to see.

And the prosecution is trying to use all of this to overwhelm jurors really with what their point is, which is that Hunter Biden knew he was struggling with addiction. There were eight times that he was in and out of addiction centers and rehab centers over the course of four years. And so he should have known when he filled out the form in October 12th of 2018 that he did not qualify to buy that gun.

The defense is still cross-examining the FBI agent. And one of the things they're driving home for the jurors is that the prosecution doesn't have any evidence that on the day he bought that firearm that he was using drugs that day. As a matter of fact, all these text messages, all of the -- a lot of the evidence that they have is from weeks and months before and after the purchase of the gun. So, as you can tell from Abbe Lowell's -- the defense attorney's point, the prosecution has not proved their case.

And so we expect that Kathleen Buhle is going to be the next witness. She will talk a lot about that drug evidence that is part of this case. Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Okay. It will be interesting to hear from her, certainly. Evan Perez, thank you very much.

Joining me now is CNN Legal Analyst and Criminal Defense Attorney Joey Jackson. Joey, great to see you.

So, do prosecutors have to prove that hunter was using drugs on the day that he filled out that federal gun for him?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Simple answer good, good morning. Alisyn is, no, right?

[10:05:00]

It's about addiction and we've just seen the form and what the form represents, big picture before the small picture.

You know, as a practitioner in federal and state court on the defense side and we look there, are you an unlawful user of or addicted to marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug or any other controlled substance, since it does not reference, Alisyn, the specific day at issue, and I think that's what prosecutors will do. They'll take the broader view with respect to his addiction, which is what they're laying out. And, of course, his attorneys are rightfully, Mr. Lowell, is pointing to the notion of the time itself. But big picture again before small picture is that it's a shame we're here. And I say that not from an opinion perspective, but as a practitioner's perspective. In going to state and going to federal court, as I do, prosecutors generally do the right thing. What's the right thing? Equitable outcomes. And an equitable outcome, you're talking about the essence of this case being a person who had a gun for an 11-day period of time, a person who was undergoing a significant episodes in his life, dark moments in his life, a person who didn't use the gun in any nefarious way, a person who didn't even access or load the firearm.

Why am I saying this? I'm saying this not as a matter of just pure defense, but as a matter of common sense. What are we doing? What are we using our courts for? We know last year it was subject to a diversion program, which means you stay out of trouble. We're all good. You know, get your life together. Move forward. Instead, we have this embarrassing trial where all his family and past exes are coming in to testify as to his, he was using and he wasn't. He was in a dark place. He wasn't in a dark place. And I just think that's, you know, not a judicious use of our system.

And, again, Alisyn, I don't say that from an opinion perspective. I say it because generally prosecutors are, right, doing the right thing. And when I was a prosecutor, attempting to do the right thing, it's not about convicting people. It's about doing what is proper, what's appropriate and what ultimately leads to a just outcome. So, I have a trial around this when the gun wasn't used for anything to harm anyone I just think is really curious. But --

CAMEROTA: Joey, what about what the defense is leaning into? Which is yes, Hunter Biden was an addict, so many Americans have loved ones with a substance abuse issue, but not all of our loved ones try to buy a gun during their addiction struggles. So, is that a good strategy?

JACKSON: I mean, listen, the bottom line is if you're the prosecutor, it's very simple and they laid it out in a 23-minute opening statement, right? The bottom line is that you cannot have a weapon -- you cannot lie with respect to having a weapon in the event that you're addicted, you're not supposed to have it. If you have an addiction, you check a box, that's lying because you are addicted, according to him, right? And so, ultimately, at the end of the day, it's simple for them.

From a defense perspective, they're leaning into a whole bunch of other things in terms of what I just spoke about and whether or not at the specific time at issue he was actually addicted. And if he wasn't, then he shouldn't be convicted, according to the defense. We'll see whether or not that plays out and whether or not the jury ultimately accepts that argument. Remember, very briefly, the jury, largely African-American, the jury from Delaware, and the jury getting a very good dose of the issue of addiction and what it does to people and how it changes their minds, attitudes, and points of view.

CAMEROTA: All right. Joey Jackson, thanks for your perspective. Great to have you.

JACKSON: I appreciate you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: This morning, President Biden is in Normandy, France, to commemorate the 80th anniversary of D-Day. Back here at home, there are renewed concerns over his mental fitness after a new report from the Wall Street Journal reveals that in meetings with Congressional leaders, Biden, quote, appears slower and has shown, quote, signs of slipping.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is at the White House. Arlette, how is the White House responding?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, the White House is forcefully pushing back on these this report from The Wall Street Journal accusing Republicans who spoke to the Journal of simply plain politics.

Now, the reporters say that they conducted these interviews over several months, speaking with about 45 people, Republicans and Democrats, who either have been in meetings with President Biden or have been briefed in the -- about those meetings. The reporters also said that the majority -- most of the criticism of Biden in these meetings did come from Republicans, including on the record comments from former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who White House aides have been quick to point out has actually praised Biden's negotiating abilities in the past.

Now, the White House, in a statement from a spokesperson, Andrew Bates, said, quote, congressional Republicans, foreign leaders and nonpartisan national security experts have made clear in their own words that President Biden is a savvy and Biden, who has a deep record of legislative accomplishment. Now, in 2024 House Republicans are making false claims as a political tactic that flatly contradict previous statements made by themselves and their colleagues.

Now, the reporters in this story also said that some Democrats had shared that they had seen Biden's showing some signs of aging in these meetings, but it all comes at a time when age has been a key issue in this presidential election, with voters questioning not just It's the mental acuity and stamina of President Biden, but also his rival, former President Donald Trump, as the 81-year-old and 77-year-old prepare to face off in November.

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CAMEROTA: Okay. Arlette, thank you very much for that.

So, we are standing by now for the first launch of the Boeing Starliner with two astronauts on board. We'll see if this third attempt is a charm.

And President Biden's new executive action on the border attempts to limit the number of asylum seekers coming into the U.S. So, why don't Border Patrol agents like it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CAMEROTA: Congressman Eric Swalwell thinks his Republican colleagues might be in a cult. Here's what he said Tuesday when Republicans tried to hold Attorney General Merrick Garland in contempt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): None of this today that you are bringing makes sense, your inconsistencies, your hypocrisy, you're sycophancy, unless you are in a cult.

So, if you believe in states' rights, except when a jury in that state convicts your nominee for president, you might be in a cult. If you claim you back the blue but want to defund the police when the police go to your nominee's house to retrieve national security secrets, you might be in a cult.

And if the guy you're supporting for president has felony convictions that prevent him from going to Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Cambodia, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Egypt, Ethiopia, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Israel, Japan, Kenya, Macau, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco, Nepal, New Zealand, Peru, Philippines, Singapore, South Africa, South Korea, Taiwan, Tanzania, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, and the U.K., you might be in a cult.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: And Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California joins me now. So, Congressman, it didn't sound like your statement went over all too well with the opposing side. But more importantly, what was the upshot of the hearing yesterday? Will Attorney General Garland be held in contempt?

SWALWELL: Look, the Republicans had in front of them the attorney general of the United States, and he's in charge of, you know, fighting terrorism domestically, going after, you know, public corruption, making sure that, you know, we have a active counter intelligence program. And you could have asked him anything. He works on ending gun violence, and instead they showed themselves as only being interested in defending Donald Trump.

And I just thought it's quite crazy that you would look at 34 felony convictions, by the way, the real number is 408, because 12 jurors 34 times decided he was guilty. So, you would look at that as a victory, and that you would try and use the attorney general to make some point about a conspiracy you think that DOJ isn't on with the state of New York. So, it's just -- the only explanation to me was, these guys are all in some sort of Trump cult.

CAMEROTA: One of the Republicans' issues with Attorney General Garland yesterday is that they want the audio tapes from the interview between President Biden and Special Counsel Robert Hur. They think there must be something damning on there that they're not hearing. And the attorney general refuses to hand them over. He's already provided the transcripts, the written transcripts, but he won't provide the audio. CNN, by the way, would like to hear the audio too. What's the harm in handing over the audio?

SWALWELL: Well, the investigation is closed, right and there was no wrongdoing found. DOJ allowed Robert Hur to come testify. Robert Hur was appointed by Donald Trump, so this was a Donald Trump appointed prosecutor who was made special counsel by Merrick Garland. The transcript was provided, and actually Hur testified that at one point he told the president that the president had a photographic recall of his own house and where the materials were.

So, to me it just seems like there's no end to what they would want to do. Once they get the audiotape, then they're going to want the videotape. Once they get the video tape, they're going to want them to be polygraphed. Once he's polygraphed, they're going to want his health record.

CAMEROTA: I hear you, but what's the harm? I mean, since we have the transcripts, what's the harm with handing over the audio? Why is that a deal breaker for the attorney general?

SWALWELL: Well, the attorney general said yesterday that the same policy that they don't like, that's protecting, you know, the president in a closed investigation from them going into this also protects Matt Gaetz, who has a closed sex trafficking investigation, and DOJ is not turning over evidence from that investigation to the House Ethics Committee because they believe once these investigations are closed that, you know, they do have to protect some of the equities of making sure that you're not smearing somebody unnecessarily, and they've provided enough.

CAMEROTA: Speaking of the duality, or as you might say, hypocrisy, Chairman Jordan defied a subpoena from the January 6th committee, yet he wants to hold Merrick Garland in contempt. And so how will that work?

SWALWELL: Again, their priorities are in the wrong direction. They see themselves as a law firm, the largest one in D.C., that represents just one client, Donald Trump. And their constituents see them as representatives who should be protecting their kids from gun violence, working to bring down the cost of gas and groceries, expanding access for health care, and make sure we're strong in the world, and they're not doing any of that.

[10:20:00]

And, by the way, maybe protect the southern border with the president's bipartisan plan with James Lankford, a Republican in the Senate. And, again, at the cost of all of that, they focus on just helping Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: Congressman Eric Swalwell, thank you for your time.

SWALWELL: My pleasure. Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Overnight, the U.S. launched a new crackdown at the southern border. As the congressman just mentioned, President Biden's sweeping new executive action targets migrants who cross the U.S. Mexico border illegally and bans them from seeking asylum. With this, Biden focuses on one of his biggest political vulnerabilities. But some members of his own party oppose the measure saying it will put lives at risk.

CNN's Rosa Flores is near the southern border in Hidalgo, Texas. Rosa, can you see a difference already?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, actually, we can. Just moments ago, we saw a bus that normally we've seen in these areas. They move migrants around. We're actually seeing them at the port of entry. And Alisyn, we've seen this before because this is how swift removals happen. But, literally, it's happening right now.

And I want to set the scene for you because this is the Hidalgo port of entry it. What you see is the crossing from Hidalgo, Texas to Mexico.

Now, in the distance, beyond the cars that are crossing into Mexico is a white bus. That white bus arrived moments ago. And from talking to one of the agents on scene, he explained to me that this bus with migrants, and these migrants are going to be swiftly returned back to Mexico.

Now, this is the first time that we've seen here on the border of what could be the first actions of Biden's executive order actually going into play, actually being seen on the border with the swift deportations.

Now, we've seen this before. We saw it back in 2021, and that's one of the reasons why, Alisyn, we wanted to be live here at this port of entry because we've seen how these swift removals happen.

Now, there's a lot of nuance here that I've got to get into, and that is because the number of migrant apprehensions at the U.S. southern border is above that 2,500 threshold. What happens is whenever migrants cross the border illegally, they are still processed, they are still fingerprinted, background checks are still happening, to make sure that there's no national security threats. But if that migrant does not express fear, then that migrant is very swiftly removed.

And, Alisyn, those swift removals This is what we're seeing right now. That white bus that is filled with migrants are -- they're going to walk back into Mexico. They're going to be escorted back into Mexico. And, again, this is happening a lot faster because of this executive order. What could take days, weeks, months before, it's happening very quickly right now, because of this executive order. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Rosa, it is so helpful to have you there on the ground for us and telling us what you're saying. Thank you very much.

Our next guest calls this executive order just, quote, smoke and mirrors from the Biden administration. Art Del Cueto is vice president of the National Border Patrol Council, which represents nearly 18, 000 Border Patrol agents. He joins us now, Mr. Del Cueto, what don't you like about this executive? ART DEL CUETO, V.P., NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: Well, I mean, first and foremost, it doesn't do enough of what it should do, right? They put a limit on the numbers, but, realistically, what needs to be done is everyone coming across should be detained. Yes, everyone coming across should have their day in court, and they should look at the asylum claims if they truly have one. But you need to do that while detaining them, not by releasing people.

In addition this, bill, it exempts child trafficking, if you look at it. Look, we've been down here on the line. We've seen this for decades. A lot of these unaccompanied juveniles, many of them being 16 and 17 years old, they're going to continue to come, and those are the things that are exploited by the criminal cartels, by the smuggling organizations. They're the ones that are going to determine, you know, where these groups are going to cross, how many people are going to cross, who's going to cross throughout various times of the day.

CAMEROTA: I hear what you're saying, but before -- yesterday, about 4,000 migrants, I mean, yesterday and days, you know, that we can measure back over the previous months, 4,000 migrants were being processed at the border a day. Under the new executive order, it goes down to 2,500. You just heard Rosa Flores there on the ground saying that it's already in effect, they're turning people away. So, I know what you're saying, it's not perfect, but isn't it better?

DEL CUETO: Well, that was at the port of entry is what I believe. And there's still no actually clear direction on what's going to happen with individuals from other countries besides Mexico. Where are they going to send them to? They're not going to be able to return those individuals directly back to Mexico that easy, unless there's some agreement between the president and the president of Mexico.

[10:25:03]

So, those are some of the gaps.

And, again, the big issue is we need to understand that anybody that crosses into the United States between the ports, in other words, that enter illegally into the U.S., they have to make some type of arrangements with the drug cartels and with the smuggling organizations. They're the ones that control it. So, regardless of the number, they're going to make sure that the first 2,500 that come across are those that paid the correct tariff and are those that they want to come across the border, and everyone else is going to get left behind.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Del Cueto, as you know, new laws and funding for enforcement are really up to Congress. And there was this bipartisan bill introduced in February by Republican Senator James Lankford who had negotiated on it for months, it would have built more border wall, it would have hired more Border Patrol agents, it would have sped up deportation. President Biden supported it. Here he was begging Congress to pass it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I'm calling on Congress to pass this bill, get it to my desk immediately.

My Republican friends, we owe it to the American people, get this bill done. We need to act now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Okay. But former President Trump, excuse me, did not want to give Biden a win, so Trump insisted that the Republicans turn against basically their own bill. He effectively killed it. So, how much responsibility does former President Trump bear for this problem?

DEL CUETO: Well, I mean, the problem falls under this administration because it started with this administration just with rhetoric alone. That's when you saw the numbers going up and then added, you know, yes, you're talking about the bill in Congress, but, realistically, now that President Biden had the power to do something about it, he didn't do enough.

CAMEROTA: But what about Congress? I mean, Congress are the people who actually could stop this problem and then killed the bipartisan bill. So, do you hold them responsible? Do you hold President Trump responsible at all?

DEL CUETO: No, at the time that it was killed through them. Now it falls on President Biden. He could have done something three and a half years ago. He could have done something a year ago. He could have done something two years ago. But now it falls on him to do the executive order and this order does not do enough. You need to detain everyone coming across and you need to stop the child trafficking all together.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Art Del Cueto, thank you for your time and your perspective.

DEL CUETO: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Okay. The Senate will vote today on whether to protect women's access to contraception. What we know about this bill.

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