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CNN International: Biden Makes The Case For Democracy In D-Day Speech; Biden Announces New Ukraine Aid, Apologizes For Delay; Far- Right Parties Expected To Win More Seats And Influence; Hunter Biden's Daughter Naomi Testifies In His Gun Trial; CIA: Netanyahu Likely To Defy U.S. Pressure To Set Post-War Gaza Plan; Sudan's Leader Vows To Retaliate After RSF Massacre; U.S. Economy Added Whopping 272,000 Jobs In May. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired June 07, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:38]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It is 8:00 p.m. in London, 9:00 p.m. in Sudan, it's 3:00 p.m. in Havana, and here in Washington. I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.

And let's get right to the news. We begin with President Biden's impassioned defense of democracy at Pointe du Hoc where on June 6, 1944, Army Rangers scaled that ragged cliffs decide to help liberate Europe from Nazi Germany. Eighty years later, none of Pointe du Hoc heroes are alive today, but standing where they fought, President Biden urged the world to listen to the echo of their voices.

(BEGIN VDIEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They ask us, what will we do? They're not asking us to scale these cliffs, but they're asking us to stay true to what America stands for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: As the tradition used to go, politics stops at the waters edge. The president did not directly invoke his predecessor and former President Donald Trump, but the contrast was unambiguous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Does anyone doubt that they would want America to stand up against Putin's aggression here in Europe today. They stormed the beaches alongside our allies. Does anyone believe these ranges want American to go it alone today, a thought to vanquish your hateful ideology, in the '30s and '40s? Does anyone doubt they would move heaven and earth to vanquish hateful ideologies of today?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Those remarks followed the president's effort to heed his own call. He announced additional assistance for Ukraine, alongside Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, in what was their first meeting since Congress finally greenlit long-delayed U.S. military aid for its ongoing war against the Russian invasion.

Joining me now, CNN's Fred Pleitgen in Berlin.

That was quite a moment there, was it not, Fred, to see President Biden not only invoked Ukraine's war with a through line to the Second World War, but also it seemed to express some apology to Zelenskyy.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, absolutely. I think that was one of the things that a lot of people felt were extremely remarkable in that meeting with Volodymyr Zelenskyy. That, of course, was on-camera as we saw there where he apologized to the Ukrainian president for some of the delays that took place.

And you know, Jim, we've been reporting about its so much over the past couple of months that the Ukrainians to them, they kept saying these delays in U.S. military assistance that went on for about half a year that those consistently cost Ukrainian lives. And we've reported on that from the front lines, from the very beginning of when the aid was held up from around September of last year when the -- especially the artillery ammo start to get pretty scarce for the Ukrainians, up until the beginning of this year when it really became a difficult situation for them, and, of course, right now the Ukrainians also dealing with the Russians attacking on multiple fronts. One of those of course being the Kharkiv area where the Russians have tried to push in there and for the president to go out there and apologize for those delays was certainly one of the things that I think many, especially Ukraine, thought was quite, quite remarkable.

The president also, of course, announcing that new military assistance package. And if you look at the packages that the president has announced since the military aid started flowing again, a lot of that is ammunition, a lot of that is artillery ammunition, which, of course, the Ukrainians had said they'd been starved off. That situation has gotten better for them on the front lines and the other big thing and Zelenskyy keeps talking about this a lot as well whenever he's asked, is air defense munitions as well, air defense missiles for the Ukrainians extremely important to try and protect their cities from Russian rockets and missiles that are flying into there.

But also, of course, now on the front lines as the Russians have become a lot more proficient at using their air force and striking Ukrainian frontline positions with aerial bombs of the Ukrainian saying air defense, absolutely key for them, too.

SCIUTTO: No question.

And as you mentioned, those additional casualties in Ukraine, one of the focuses of this renewed U.S. military assistance to Ukraine was air defense missiles those to help head off, not just casualties on the front line, but civilian casualties and Ukrainian cities including Kharkiv, that have been just pummeled.

Are we seeing are Ukrainian forces, but also Ukrainian civilians seeing the -- at least initial effects of air defense munitions arriving there?

[15:05:01]

PLEITGEN: I think to a certain extent, they are. But one of the things that we have to keep in mind is that the Ukrainians have been saying that they don't have enough missiles, of course, for the air defense systems, but they also don't have enough air defense systems as is.

If you look at the most, by far, the most important air defense system that the Ukrainians have been given which is, of course, the U.S. made patriots along range air defense system that's absolutely key for the Ukrainians. There's certain missiles that the Russians fire that the Ukrainians could only shoot down with the patriots, but the other important thing is that with the way that the Russians are using their air force, right now on the frontlines, the Ukrainian say that they would at least need two Patriot systems just for the Kharkiv frontline area to keep their frontline troops safe.

So, Kharkiv City, of course, has been a big issue for the Ukrainians. They haven't had sufficient air defenses there. And that's one of the places where civilian casualties have skyrocketed. That's one of the things that the United Nations has said that they had a 31 percent increase in civilian casualties in the city of Kharkiv from April to May.

And, of course, one of the things that Kharkiv city started doing, I was in Kharkiv earlier this year as well is they've started building bunker schools there so that children are kept safe because they say if the Russians fire missiles into Kharkiv, you only have a couple of seconds to take cover. For many people, that simply isn't enough.

PLEITGEN: And that's one of the reasons that U.S. relaxed those restrictions to allow Ukrainian forces to strike Russian positions inside Russia because there are so close, right? There's really no warning time.

Fred Pleitgen, thanks so much.

Joining me now to discuss, former U.S. ambassador to NATO, Ivo Daalder.

Ivo, good to have you back on the show.

IVO DAALDER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Glad to be here, Jim.

SCIUTTO: There seemed to be a deliberate -- deliberate effort from President Biden today to evoke Ronald Reagan, who spoken that very same spot on the beach there at the base of those clips 40 years ago, and gave his own speech about democracy, the need to resist not only totalitarianism, but isolationism.

I want to play a comparison of the two, Reagan and Biden, and get your thoughts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Ones country is worth dying for and democracy is worth dying for because it's the most deeply honorable form of government ever devised by man. All of you loved liberty, all of you were willing to fight tyranny.

BIDEN: American democracy asked the hardest things, to believe that we're part of something bigger than ourselves. So democracy begins with each of us, begins when one person decides of something more important than themselves, when they decide the person they're serving alongside of is someone to look after, when they decide the mission matters more than their life, when they decide that their country matters more than they do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: There is, of course, a sharp contrast between Biden's view, which was in the past a bipartisan view of U.S. role in the world, and Trump's view.

I wonder as he evoked Reagan there, do you think he hit the mark on that message?

DAALDER: Yeah. I think what the president tried to do was to draw a through line really starts with Roosevelt and the decision to enter World War I1, one -- a hard-fought decision, by the way, in the United States with many people being against U.S. involvement. And from Roosevelt to Reagan to the present day, to say, you know, for the last 80 years, more than 80 years, the United States has seen its security, its prosperity indeed, its freedom and the essence of democracy as needing an active role in an engagement together with other countries, with allies and others, to deal with the threats to democracy by taking out tyranny.

And that is happening today in Ukraine. It was happening in -- when Reagan spoke because it was the middle of the Cold War. And, of course, it happened under Roosevelt because of the threat posed by Nazi Germany and fascist Italy, and Japan.

And so, I think the unspoken theme here is that an act of an American role, engaging in the world, and end of isolationism, working with allies is what we need and is what do United States has done, that in part the debate we're having in this country, the same debate we had more than 80 years ago should end with one outcome, which is that democracy is protected by the American people and by our allies.

SCIUTTO: Former senior Trump advisers have told me that that position you just described there is effectively on the ballot this November because Trump does not have that same commitment to U.S. alliances, whether they'd be in Europe or Asia, or that same vision of America's role in the world.

What happens in your view in a second Trump term? Does the U.S., for instance, fail to stand with Ukraine? Does the U.S. move further away or perhaps pull out of NATO?

[15:10:03] DAALDER: I think what happens is having a president who does not see value in alliances as a means to strengthen our own defense, our means to protect freedom not only of other countries, but by doing so our freedom as well, undermines the ability to stand up to autocratic leaders who are threatening our prosperity, our freedom, and our security.

Whether that is Xi Jinping in China, Vladimir Putin in Russia, Kim Jong-un in North Korea, or Supreme Leader Khamenei in Iran, these are all leaders who are bent on changing the world order in a way that is not in our interests. And the best way we have demonstrated in World War II, and fighting the Cold War, and ever since, Republicans and Democratic presidents alike while we stand together with our friends and our allies in Asia, in Europe, in the Middle East to fight these kinds of tyrannies and ideologies that seek to dominate the world.

And President Trump doesn't see it that way. He thinks that our security better achieved by standing alone, by pulling back from international engagements. He may be -- he may be right in the sense that we can, in the short term, we are very strong and capable of doing many things, but we learned the lesson in the '20s and '30s, and that ultimately, an American withdrawal from the world does not lead to peace, it does not lead to prosperity, and it threatens our freedom.

And I think that's the message that President Biden was sending in a place of President Reagan did as well.

SCIUTTO: Well, we'll see if voters see that choice and how they decide in November.

Ivo Daalder, thanks so much.

DAALDER: My pleasure.

SCIUTTO: Well, Russian naval ships, including a nuclear powered submarine, are set to visit Cuba next week, 90 miles off the coast of Florida, this according to the Cuban government. Cuba says none of those ships are carrying nuclear weapons and insist the stopover does not represent a threat to the region. U.S. officials say these movements are part of Russia's routine naval operations, posed no threat to the U.S. but they do see it as signal sending, at least by the Kremlin.

CNN military analyst, Colonel Cedric Leighton, joins me now.

It has been a number of years since a Russian nuclear-powered submarine has visited Cuba. Russian ships have gone there. Submarine is a different story. Is this a significant step up?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it is certainly a symbolic stem up, Jim, and I think at the very least with the Russians are doing is they're signaling that they're going to be moving forces around and they're in essence, trying to show that they can move forces with sensitive propulsion systems like a nuclear carrier nuclear-powered carrier in a way that at kind of mimics what the U.S. does. And so, they're trying to show that they can move forces in a way that we do. So we move forces into the Mediterranean, for example, turns out the Russians are planning a major exercise in the Mediterranean.

You have, of course, Cuba has a long-standing relationship with Russia, and before that with the Soviet Union. And ever since 2013, they've had annual visits by Russian ships from the Russian navy.

So there is certainly a mechanism in place for there to be port calls. But this seems to be different. This has a different feel to it, especially because of what President Putin has been saying about moving weapons in areas where they can possibly do damage, or at least target with perhaps impunity, targets in the West and the West, of course, includes states.

SCIUTTO: Listen, I remember when a U.S. nuclear submarine popped up and was revealed to have popped up in the Red Sea in the midst of a threat from the Houthis that was seen as quite a deliberate signal from the U.S. that it could strike targets in that region. Connect the dots for us here, because this is not the first time in recent weeks and months that Russian involvement in this hemisphere has grown more aggressive, one can say.

I mean, Russia, of course, is aligned with Venezuela. Venezuela, it seems, attempting to annex land inside Guyana. We don't talk about the story much, but that's happening right -- right on our doorstep. You have certainly had Russian jets more aggressive over Alaska in terms of intercepting U.S. fighters. And you even seen Russian ships challenge U.S. ships alongside Chinese ships in Asia.

I mean, we have to look at those together. I am particularly events in America's own backyard.

LEIGHTON: Well, absolutely. So let's unpack that for a little bit, Jim. One of the key things is that Russia and China are working together in many different ways militarily and diplomatically, and, of course, economically.

And when it comes to the western hemisphere you correctly point out that the Russians are involved not only in Cuba, but also in Venezuela, the Essequibo area, which is what you're talking about with Guyana. That is an area that is potentially resource rich, oil rich.

[15:15:03]

And if the Russians help with the Venezuelans move into Guyana, that would be a serious challenge to U.S. role. Guyana is not a very close U.S. ally, but, of course, the relationship has grown closer -- grown closer with the fact that there's a threat from Venezuela now, and Venezuela, which used to be aligned in the days before Chavez used to be aligned with the U.S. is now definitely --

SCIUTTO: Right, yeah.

LEIGHTON: -- definitely move the other way. And at the very least they're very closely aligned with Cuba. But it's also clear that they're aligned with Russia and with Iran.

SCIUTTO: Listen, I mean, it's a new great game, I mean, you certainly see that the two powers coming up against each other in Africa and you're seeing them in South America as well.

Cedric Leighton, thanks so much as always.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Voting is now underway, will continue for the next three days for the European Union parliament. It is the world's second largest democratic election after India's, with nearly 400 million people from 27 countries eligible to vote. This election comes as the E.U. is grappling with wars in Ukraine and Gaza, immigration, climate, security, a coalition of two centrist parties is expected to retain the majority but far-right parties could see gains, including in countries such as France and eventually impact political direction of the bloc for the next five years.

CNN's Clare Sebastian has more on that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We will act by expelling delinquents, criminals, and foreign Islamists who posed a threat to national security.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From threats of mass expulsions in France to openly Islamophobic campaign material, this from far-right Portuguese party Chega asking, which Europe do you want?

Emboldened by winning elections at home, Europe's far-right is pushing the boundaries as it eyes big gains in E.U. parliament elections.

CATHERINE FIESCHI, VISITING FELLOW, EUROPEAN UNIVERSITY INSTITUTE: They've tried in different places and in different ways to kind of test the waters in trying to be bolder if they can, right, to see how closely they can flirt with really inflammatory rhetoric.

SEBASTIAN: With just weeks to go, Germany's alternative for Deutschland crossed a line after its lead candidates claimed the Nazi paramilitary group SS were, quote, not all criminals.

France's Marine Le Pen kicking the party out of her far-right coalition in the E.U. parliament.

So it's really a sort of litmus test as to how far right is too far.

FIESCHI: Yes, that's right, because these parties really live or die by their own domestic public opinions.

SEBASTIAN: For Hungary's voters, culture wars are playing well. Prime Minister Viktor Orban's party has put up billboards showing opposition leaders carrying gender among other things on a dinner plate to Brussels. Not clear yet how that will play out for France where candidate Marion Marechal is promising think to, quote, preserve our families of values in the face of wokism.

Or Italy, pregnant men and woke madness? No, thank you, reads this post from far right Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini.

FIESCHI: For them, it's an upending of the natural order, right, which is, you know, sort of the heart of ultra conservative ideology.

SEBASTIAN: And if that doesn't work, there's always the war in Ukraine. Prime Minister Orban's party in Hungary holding a massive peace rally in recent days.

Free, neutral, safe, one slogan from Austria's lead far-right candidate calling for an end to, quote, war-mongering by Europe.

Here, though, divisions in Europe's far-right stuck. Italy's Giorgia Meloni, a key supporter of aid for Ukraine.

And so in what could be Europe's most right-wing parliament ever, alliances maybe blurred.

Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, court has adjourned for the week in Hunter Biden's criminal gun trial. The prosecution rested earlier today. And when we come back, what we know about how the defense now plans to wrap up its case after today's testimony.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:14]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Day five of Hunter Biden's federal gun trial has now concluded and today, his daughter Naomi Biden testified about her father's addiction as part of his defense. She's a defense witness.

She recounted her pride in seeing her father in rehab 2018 and stated he did not do drugs in front of her.

CNN's Paula Reid joins me now from outside the courthouse in Wilmington.

I wonder witnessing this testimony, which seemed not to go the way the defense hoped or imagined what the impact was, and just how it played out in the courtroom.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Jim, let's go through it chronologically.

Naomi Biden took the stand this morning. I was in court with her. And, look, this is not an easy thin to do. Anyone who is the child of an addict knows the child of an addict knows this is an incredibly difficult thing to talk about in any circumstance, never mind a historic trial and a federal courtroom.

When she and her husband walked in into the courtroom, which is called as a witness, she came with her husband immediately. The first lady of the United States who's sitting in the front row, turned, motioned for her husband to come sit right next to her. It was clear the first lady was trying to show support for her granddaughter.

And on the stand, she testified a briefly two instances that she saw her father in 2018, one was in the late summer and that he had been in rehab. He reached out to arrange a trip to she and her then boyfriend now husband went to visit. And she said, during that visit, he was clean as she had ever seen him, since her father had died -- her uncle rather, Beau had died and she was really proud of him.

She testified she saw him again in October when she had returned his car that she had borrowed it. She said once again she was as clean as he was when I saw him in California and she was really hopeful.

But things took a turn, Jim, when the prosecutor has got up. They appear to catch Naomi and the defense attorneys a little off guard by presenting text messages that were exchanged between Hunter and Naomi during that New York trip where Hunter was clearly going dark for long periods of time, texting her at 2:00 a.m. to try to make arrangements. And the two were sort of going back and forth about if they'd even be able to meet up.

There was also this other issue, Jim, of his car. She testified that she did not see any drugs or drug paraphernalia in the car on October 19th. Prosecutors pointed out that her aunt Hallie Biden discovered drug paraphernalia on October 23, and then tried to suggest, well, if you didn't see it on the 19th, must have been put in there subsequently.

And, Jim, the reason that's a problem for the defense is their argument is that Hunter was cleaned, was not addicted to or using illegal drugs between October 12 and October 23rd.

So it didn't appear to go exactly the way the defense wanted it, but look, the jury clearly had a lot of compassion for Hallie. They were watching her. You could tell that they understood how difficult this was for her, but then after we came back from the lunch break, complete change in strategy. Now the big question, Jim, is whether Hunter Biden will take the stand on Monday.

[15:25:00]

SCIUTTO: Paula Reid, thanks so much.

Joining me now to break it all down, defense and trial attorney Misty Marris.

Misty, good to have you back.

So you have text messages which paint a different period of this time period in October 2018, then a daughters hopeful you might say recollection she testified her father still seem good. She said in so many words, I was hopeful about his sobriety efforts.

And then you see these text messages. Was that damaging? And if so, how damaging for the defense?

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: Yeah, really undercut the defense strategy and Naomi Biden's testimony certainly took a turn when those text messages came in especially the text message about, dad, I can't take this anymore and him saying, unfair to you that I'm not communicative. All of that really undercuts the idea that an October 2018, the critical time period that Hunter Biden was not doing drugs or that Naomi Biden recollected that he was actually clean during that time.

So, those text messages were very damaging, and as we just discussed, also that time timeline.

Keep in mind with Hallie Biden, the defense was trying to establish a timeline from October 12 to October 22, she never actually observed Hunter Biden doing drugs.

Naomi Biden was supposed to be another witness to further corroborate that, and unfortunately for the defense, those text messages really undercut that point.

SCIUTTO: So what does the defense do now? And is calling Hunter Biden himself to testify, one of those steps in your view?

MARRIS: Well, they really scrap their whole defense plan because we know that they had other witnesses that were potentially going to testify. They had experts, they had James Biden than they said that's not going to happen anymore.

So right now, the question is whether or not Hunter Biden will testify and here's what's going through a defense attorney's mind. Of course, the jury would want to hear from Hunter Biden. He's the one who's going to be able to talk about his state of mind, was he -- did he feel that he was an addict at the time? What was he thinking when he filled out that form? Did he understand it?

All of the things that the defense presented in the opening statement. Now, the jury cannot use it against him if he doesn't testify. But of course it would be helpful because they are asking the jury to look into his head.

But they're doing a risk reward analysis gym. They're saying if he does testify, there's so much that could come in, specifically with his drug use, perhaps more passages from his memoir, more information from the laptop. It is a huge risk. I think it's unlikely believe that the ultimately testifies listen this is an emotional trial, right?

SCIUTTO: I mean, you got -- you got a daughter testifying about a father. You have someone speaking about addiction, which the jurors during voir dire, many of them said they have someone in their family, which by the way, is far from uncommon in this country. In fact, you might say most families have some experience with addiction. What is your read of what the most likely outcome is here or even perhaps the best hope for the defense or the prosecution? Because they're also questions about how often a case like this itself is prosecuted to this degree.

MARRIS: Yeah, absolutely. So this particular type of case, when you have a case for possession in a case for falsification of the application. It's usually marked charged on its own this way, it's usually because the person who tried to acquire the gun was a felon or the gun was used in another violent crime. So this is very unique, although the jury won't hear that.

However, Naomi Biden, I'm not in the courtroom. I was reading about her testimony as it was coming up. Obviously, that's impactful. The jurors have had personal experience with addiction, which unfortunately permeates our society.

So there's a lot of sympathy to somebody who struggled. So I think a hung jury is a very, very real possibility in this case.

SCIUTTO: Misty Marris, we'll see, perhaps quite soon. Thanks so much for joining.

MARRIS: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Coming up, defying U.S. pressure once again. CNN's exclusive reporting on a CIA assessment finding that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu likely believes he can get away without defining a post-Gaza war plan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

A new CIA assessment has found that Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu likely believes he can maintain support from both sides of his government without defining a post-war plan for Gaza, that assessment comes despite increasing pressure from the Biden administration and the Israeli public to commit to the three-phase ceasefire plan announced by President Biden last week.

Next week, the U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken will return to the Middle East as they now wait for Hamas's response to that proposal.

After accepting a bipartisan invitation from congressional leaders, Netanyahu will travel to the U.S. to address a joint meeting of Congress on July 24th.

CNN's Paula Hancocks joins me now from Jerusalem.

Benny Gantz, member of the war cabinet, leader of Israel's national unity bloc, he has quite publicly vowed to leave the government if Netanyahu does not propose a post-war plan by tomorrow. The U.S. is urging him to stay in the government. The CIA is assessing that Netanyahu believes he can kind of play both sides here. I wonder what that means for Gantz in next steps.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we will find out at 8:40 p.m. on Saturday night local time, Jim. This is when we know that Benny Gantz is going to be holding a press conference and he will give his decision.

Now, he has said as of last month that if Benjamin Netanyahu didn't come up with certain conditions, then he would walk away with his party from the coalition.

Now the conditions were there had to be a day after plan for Gaza. There had to be a decisive plan on how to get the hostages back and they're also had to be a way of securing the northern border so that tens of thousands of residents could go back to live in the north of Israel.

Now, obviously, these have not been accomplished. We've seen Netanyahu be very vague and intentionally vague over the past seven, eight months, not wanting to alienate any part of his coalition will have to stick to any decisions that he makes.

So, what we could well see is Benny Gantz leaving. Now, as you mentioned, Jim, U.S. officials have tried to convince him not to go at this point. That's according to U.S. officials familiar with those conversations.

[15:35:04]

We don't know whether that has had any bearing on the matter at this point. If he does walk though, it doesn't mean the coalition will collapse. Benjamin Netanyahu will still have a majority, although it will be far slimmer, but it does mean that he will walk away from the war cabinet. It makes decisions being made more difficult. It isolates Netanyahu further, both domestically and internationally.

SCIUTTO: Isolation that he seems to have been able to survive so far.

The U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres has now added Israel's military to a global blacklist of offenders have committed violations against children. I wonder how Israel is responding and I wonder as well what happens with this because we've seen similar international pronouncements that don't seem to have much impact on the war.

HANCOCKS: So this -- this is a list the likes of Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Democratic Republic of Congo have been on before, this blacklist of nations who cause harm to children. And this is the list that the U.N. secretary general is putting Israel on.

Now, we understand that the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations taped some of that phone call and publicized some of it as well, rejecting what the U.N. is doing which has caused anger within the U.N. secretary generals office at the same time. But as you say, Israel has been condemned by a number of different U.N. bodies, and it has rejected all of those accusations, those allegations, there are cases ongoing. And at this point, they are simply not listening to these kinds of

condemnations. They will fight back. They will verbally reject what is happening, but it won't, as we have seen, change anything on the ground.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. And rumors of Netanyahu's political death in the country seemed to be exaggerated once again.

Paula Hancocks, thanks so much.

Well, according to multiple U.N. agencies, time is now running out for the people of Sudan. The country is facing a catastrophic humanitarian crisis after a full-scale civil war broke out between the military and rebel forces more than a year ago. Nearly 10 million people are now displaced inside Sudan, making it the world's worst internal displacement crisis millions mar more at imminent risk of famine, with more than a third of the population facing acute food insecurity.

The brutality of this war has been just relentless. Humanitarian agencies have reported on multiple cases of torture, rape, assassination, and civilian massacres. The latest attack by rebel forces on Wednesday left some 150 people dead, including 35 children, more than 200 people injured.

CNN's Nada Bashir reports on the cycle of violence gripping Sudan, and we should note, some of the images in the story are disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): Awaiting burial, the victims of another costly day in Sudan's year-long civil war. At least 150 people were killed by rebel forces in the village of Wad Al-Noora on Wednesday, local officials and eyewitnesses say. Though CNN cannot independently confirm these claims these images, which are teams have geo-located, was shared on social media by an activist group. Most of those killed here by paramilitary rapid support forces were civilians, locals told us, including women and children.

An RSF spokesperson said Thursday, it had targeted army bases in the area, though locals disputed this claim. The U.N.'s top official in Sudan has called for a thorough investigation, but that may take time to heed. Wad Al-Noora is in Sudan's central Al-Jazeera state, where RSF fighters are attempting to gain ground.

They already controlled much of the country's capital Khartoum, seized after RSF leader General Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo, fill out with army chief, Abdel Fattah al-Burhan, in April last year, unleashing violence across the country.

MARTIN GRIFFITHS, U.N. UNDER-SECRETARY-GENERAL FOR HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS: Two men basically decided did that they were going to resolve their differences through fighting, that they were going to take the country down, and this was an avoidable conflict.

BASHIR: Since then, more than 15,000 people have reportedly been killed, according to one NGO. Some 9 million had been driven from their homes and U.N. aid chiefs warned of an imminent risk of famine.

Many civilians sought safety in El Fasher in western Darfur, but that city is now also facing assault by RSF fighters, according to a Yale report out Wednesday, as the RSF, quote, continues to gain ground.

[15:40:03]

Nada Bashir, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Our thanks to Nada Bashir for that upsetting story from Sudan.

For more on the crisis, I want to bring in David Simon. He's director of Yale University's Genocide Studies Program.

David, thanks for joining us.

DAVID SIMON, SENIOR LECTURER, YALE'S JACKSON SCHOOL OF GLOBAL AFFAIRS: Thanks for having me, Jim.

SCIUTTO: We're, of course, more than a year into this conflict, no one questions the violence underway there.

Last week, U.N. special adviser on the prevention of genocide warned: The situation today bears all the marks of risk of genocide with strong allegations that this crime has already been committed.

Do you believe a genocide has already underway in Sudan?

SIMON: I believe it's highly likely. The types of violence that we've seen has been -- appears to have been targeted at specific groups specific ethnic groups, and the target, it's not hard to conclude that the targeting has included the intent to destroy, at least in part, these ethnic groups in some of the locations where they've been found. So unfortunately the modus operandi of the RSF seems to be to target ethnic groups and their leaders and resulting in killing, in causing various bodily and mental harm, or inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction, all of which are crimes of genocide as defined by the genocide convention.

SCIUTTO: I was among the reporters who cover the genocide in Darfur in 2007. And as I read the details of this, it just sounds so familiar to what we saw underway in Darfur then. Now there was concern that El Fasher, the capital city of northern Darfur, is now under threat of RSF control.

What would it mean if the RSF were to gain control of that city?

SIMON: Yeah. It's almost too frightening to contemplate. But if the RSF were able to control El Fasher, it would essentially have total control of all of Darfur's the last remaining city that the RSF does not completely control.

In other cities that it's over which its gained control. It has engaged in wide-scale violence against local residents and if it were to gain control of El Fasher, there's no reason to expect that it wouldn't do the same. In fact, the very means by which it gains control is sort of collective punishment, collective violence of burning of whole neighborhoods outside of the cities, burning of whole villages, and scenes that really must seem reminiscent of 20 years ago, 15 years ago in the early around of genocide.

SCIUTTO: No question. We walk through those villages that have been burned to the ground.

Is there any reason today to believe that either side would agree to a ceasefire, some sort of negotiation to get out of this?

SIMON: Well, unfortunately, no, because there's been a process, a ceasefire negotiation process called the Jeddah process that was initiated last may, just a month into this current civil war. And we now have over a full year of false starts and empty promises. It sort of feels like anytime someone says, well, we should restart the Jeddah process, I feel like it's Charlie Brown holding the football once again and or Lucy holding football (INAUDIBLE) and it's just going to be yanked away. There's really no reason to trust it to be different this time.

In fact, even -- the Sudanese armed forces, the SIF, the opposite side to this conflict of the RSF, is sort of given up on the Jeddah process. So there's really no good faith to build out there.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, on their social shame in the proportion of people suffer, millions of them.

David Simon, thanks so much for joining.

SIMON: Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, back here in the U.S., the May jobs report is in and once again, far exceeds expectations. Up next, why the hot hiring market and wage increases is still a mixed bag when it comes to tamping down inflation.

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[15:47:19]

SCIUTTO: The U.S. economy added a whopping 272,000 new jobs during the month of May. That number far surpassed economist's expectations, and increased by more than $100,000 -- hundred thousand jobs over April's 165,000.

Job gains are high. The country did break a two-year long streak of having unemployment below 4 percent at ticked up from 3.9 to 4 percent.

CNN's Julia Chatterley is here now to break down these numbers.

And, Julia, it's always tough an environment like this. So, you know, folks want to see slower economy, lower prices so that you could cut rates. But a hotter economy with a strong job growth means well, you're averting in effect at least fears of an imminent recession, I suppose, is the price of higher rates going to be declining fears of a recession? How do you view these numbers?

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: We want the best of everything, right, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Right, always.

CHATTERLEY: That we want a strong jobs market, but we also want interest rates to come down. Look, this is just one number, but I'll go out on a limb here and say, I think the federal reserve is going to struggle actually to even get one quarter-point cut in before the presidential election now, in November, as you said, whopping, I think is the right word far stronger report than we expected for last month. It's not just about the job gains though that were broad-based, healthcare, government, leisure and hospitality. It's what you also mentioned and that was the average wages or average hourly earnings was stronger than expected, too.

So, the way that I look at this, if your jobs market remains strong, the consumer remains strong. It means the consumer can keep spending and that keeps the pressure on prices. So, and that's the double-edged sword, of course, for the Fed. So it's reasonable to think to look at this number and go, you know what, what's the rush and what's the urgency to cut rates here? And I think that's going to be gain the thinking for the Federal Reserve.

Now, there's always a "but". There were other signs of a weakening jobs market, job openings had reduced. What we call the household survey, which is when they go out and just speak to households rather than businesses to get a sense of jobs, that weaken, too. So we really are in data watching mode. We've got inflation data next week, Jim, but it's going to be interesting to see how the Federal Reserve and Jay Powell handle it because I think they're going to push back on expectations and hopes of a cut.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, even after the ECB, European Central Bank, was able to cut rates.

CHATTERLEY: Yeah.

SCIUTTO: But their economy is not as hot, as the U.S. economy. So there you go.

CHATTERLEY: Yeah.

SCIUTTO: Julia Chatterley, thanks so much.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: For more on the job numbers, stick with CNN next hour when Julia, she's going to be back to anchor "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS". I'm sure they're gonna be talking about this.

Coming up, the newest member of Vermont State University's class of 2024 -- well, it's kind of furry.

[15:50:02]

It's Max the Cat. The beloved tabby earns an honorary degree after four years exploring campus. He and his owner join us next. It's going to be quite an interview.

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SCIUTTO: So among the graduates or any diplomas from Vermont State University, Castleton, this year was one very beloved furry friend. Max the Cat donned his graduation cap after four years wondering campus, posing for art students hitching rides on backpacks, and, of course, receiving many pets and scratches.

What's his degree in you may ask? Well, the five-year-old tabby received an honorary doctorate in litter-ature, literature. You got that right.

Here to discuss is Dr. Max, along with his owner Ashley Dow.

So, Ashley, quite an honor. How is the cat celebrating today?

ASHLEY DOW, MAX THE CAT'S OWNER: He's just excited to see people up on campus. So, we have the Boston crusaders in town and they are practicing up on campus. So he has someone to go visit right now.

SCIUTTO: Nice. How exactly did he earn this honor through those years on campus?

DOW: Essentially, he's been the emotional support animal for all of campus. Everybody loves to see him. He essentially, I one of the staff members there said that she sees students, see him come running at them and she can see the stress kind of just fall away because here's Max and he'll make it better.

SCIUTTO: That's actually -- yeah, as you say that because I mean, it's been I'm sure a tough year for some of the other kids who are graduating this year, right? I mean, they probably started there during the pandemic. I mean you've had so many things that have impacted life on campus.

DOW: Yeah and most of them are like if I walk up through with the dogs, are happy to see the dogs, to their like we miss our animals so much, just having him be up there and he goes and visits inside the -- he's been in the academic buildings and things like that because they have some slow closing doors and he made it, the desk, and he's been in a different couple of places that have -- the campus calls and texts, make sure he's okay because he doesn't go up sometimes. So, I'll get random phone calls of them checking in.

SCIUTTO: How did he exactly receive his diploma?

DOW: So they decided it would be like it was sort of a virtual thing.

[15:55:01] So they did a small, you know, five by seven degree and they said it would be great with the first-class of VTSU graduating this year because it changed over from Castleton, that they thought it would be a great honor for him. So it was a publicity thing as well, just to put it out there and it kind of went completely crazy.

SCIUTTO: I do love the doctor of litter-ature. That's pretty -- that's pretty good. I was doing a little back of the envelope of the number of famous Americans who have no degree, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Richard Branson, he's British, Bill Gates, Ted Turner, none of them have degrees. This guy does.

DOW: Yeah.

SCIUTTO: Well, we hope --

DOW: And he probably doesn't --

SCIUTTO: He probably doesn't know, right?

DOW: Yeah. Exactly.

SCIUTTO: Well, he looks pretty cozy where he is. And I did see you feeding treats during the break.

So here's to Dr. Max and to Ashley, thanks so much for joining.

DOW: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: And thanks so much to all of you for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" with Julia Chatterley today is up next. Please have a great weekend.