Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Hunter Biden's Lawyer Indicates He Will Not Testify; Soon, Secretary of State Blinken to Meet Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu; Trump Casts His Criminal Conviction as Messianic Martyrdom. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired June 10, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

Breaking this morning, Hunter Biden's defense attorney indicates that the president's son will not testify in his own defense. That means closing arguments could soon get underway in his federal gun trial.

CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez joins us from outside the court. Evan, how big of a risk would it have been for Hunter Biden to take that stand?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It's a big risk, Jim. I think that's the reason why you had the defense spend the weekend weighing the pros and cons of this. One of the things that they wanted to do if he took the stand was to argue that and to tell the jury that Hunter Biden has been sober since 2019. And so that would perhaps, in their view, at least go a little bit of a way of reversing some of the damage from all of this testimony, these volumes of testimony from the prosecution about his drug use from 2015 through 2019. That's part of what they're trying to figure out how to limit the damage of.

Now, if he were to take the stand, the prosecution had warned that among the things they are going to bring up was the fact that he was discharged from the Navy after testing positive for drugs about a decade ago, and also that he had pleaded -- agreed to plead guilty to all of these charges as part of a plea deal that fell apart last summer here at this very courthouse.

So, in the end, we anticipate that when the defense and the prosecution rest their case and they go to the jury, we'll hear officially, formally that Hunter Biden is not going to take the stand. One of the things that the defense attorneys have been arguing behind the scenes and what they've agreed on is that the jury will be told that if the defendant doesn't take the stand, that they can't hold that against him. Jim?

ACOSTA: And, Evan, what are the jurors likely to hear in the closing arguments, do you think? PEREZ: Well, the big thing that Abbe Lowell, Hunter Biden's attorney, wants to bring home to the jurors is that from all of the four and a half days of testimony, ten witnesses, what the prosecution has not shown is that Hunter Biden did drugs in October of 2018, which is when he bought this gun and why we're here. That's what those are the three charges he's facing. And the other thing is that they want to argue that he never he didn't knowingly lie on those forms, that he filled out the federal form in order to get the background check to buy the gun. And also that in his mind, he didn't believe he was addicted to drugs at that time.

Now, we're going to hear from the prosecution. We're going to remind people about some of his own family there's a lot of people who have testified that they believe he was doing drugs during that time. And in the end, what the judge has already ruled is that prosecutors don't have to prove that Hunter Biden was doing drugs on that day in October, only that he's doing drugs and using drugs around that time. What that around that time exactly means, it will be up to the jury to interpret that. Jim?

ACOSTA: All right. Evan Perez, thank you very much.

Let's continue this conversation. Joining me now is CNN is Senior Legal Analyst and former State and Federal Prosecutor Elie Honig and Defense Attorney and former Federal Prosecutor Shan Wu.

Elie, your take on Hunter Biden apparently not taking the stand?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely the right move, absolutely his right. It would have been way too risky for him to take the stand. There's no upside. And to the extent the defense wants to make the case, which they do that well, the prosecution has not proved that he was an addict at that key time in October 2018. They've already done that. They called Naomi Biden, Hunter Biden's daughter, to the stand. She testified that as far as she knew he was sort of in recovery then, she didn't see him using drugs at that point. That's more than enough if you want to make your defense. It's the right move not to call him. It's a constitutional right not to take the stand. They did the right thing.

ACOSTA: Good call, Shan, do you think?

SHAN WU, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. I think it's a sign. When they don't call the defendant, there are different reasons, different sort of atmospherics that come from that.

[10:05:01]

Here, to me, it's a little bit of a sign that the defense is feeling pretty confident at the moment, as confident as they can in a case like this.

Putting a defendant on is sort of a Hail Mary pass, I mean, A, you got to think he's going to do really well, and, B, you got to think we really need him to come across well to the jury. A little bit of a choice here for them. The tough one, which is they think the atmospherics have been looking pretty good. I mean, the first lady has been in the audience, you know, there's a lot of sympathy going on here.

So, as a lawyer, you're thinking defense counsel, am I going to regret not putting them on if there's a conviction? Or if there's a conviction, am I going to think I might have done this as an acquittal, but for the fact that he didn't do well? So, I think they're feeling pretty good right now, as well as they can be, and no need to take that risk.

ACOSTA: Yes. Elie, what do you think? I mean, is the defense looking good heading into closing arguments?

HONIG: It's such an unusual case because the facts are really largely not contested, right? There's two parts of this crime. One, did he possess the firearm? The defense has conceded that. There's no way they can, and they have not argued that he did not. Of course, he possessed a firearm. So, it's all going to come down to this term of addiction.

And I was talking with Shan before. I mean, this was a crime we never charged where I was at in the Southern District of New York in part, because it's obscure and, in part, because how do you define when someone's an addict or not? And so what the defense is doing --

ACOSTA: There's a language in that gun form. It's --

HONIG: Yes, it's very broad.

ACOSTA: Yes.

HONIG: And what the defense is arguing here is, sure, he was an addict before and after the time period, but they haven't proved necessarily within that 11-day time period that he was an addict.

So, I think the evidence is strong for the prosecution here, but the defense has given itself a fighting chance. And they've given the jury -- if the jury feels any sense of sympathy for Hunter Biden or antipathy towards the prosecution, they've given the jury a way to say, no, we're throwing this out.

ACOSTA: And if there is a conviction, Shan, could we see Hunter Biden going to jail?

WU: Oh, absolutely. I mean, he definitely faced --

ACOSTA: The president's son.

WU: Yes, absolutely. He'd definitely faced that question.

And just to add to what Elie was saying, it's even harder than proving that he's, quote, an addict. They also have to show he thinks he's an addict during that time period. So, there's a lot of fuzziness there. And I think the defense has done a good job working that out. ACOSTA: And, Elie, you were saying that this is not prosecuted very much. Why not?

HONIG: Well, a couple of reasons. When we would do these cases, there's a whole category of what we call prohibited persons, people under federal law who are not allowed to possess firearms. Far and away the most common category that's prosecuted is prior felons, people have previously been convicted of felony crimes.

It doesn't come up that often, for one thing. It's also, like I said, there's fuzziness around the term and addict. And, frankly, they're seen as the less important of the prohibited person's categories. There's seven or eight categories, and this one is just seen as sort of small potatoes.

So, it was something I never even really heard of when I was a prosecutor. It exists, for sure. And it is charged. Hunter Biden is not the only person ever to be charged with it, but it's rare to see this charge, especially in isolation. Hunter Biden has the tax charges separately in California, but it's rare that you see essentially a case entirely based on an addict in possession.

ACOSTA: What do you think, Shan?

WU: Usually, you want to see that before you charge it, that the gun had been used in some crime. This is just like a purely possession kind of crime.

I do want to say this idea of him testifying, which I know you've touched upon this, but part of that decision, as Evan was reporting, was the idea that the prosecution says we're going to bring up disarmable discharge. They also seem to assert that they're going to bring up his plea agreement, which I just think is totally off. I mean, if they were successful in doing that, one, it's appealable. Two, you bring that up, you can all say, yes, well, you guys were willing to plea this out to diversion, you know? What's going on here? So, that seemed a little bit questionable to me too.

ACOSTA: All right, very interesting. Guys, we'll be watching. Thanks so much. Good to talk to both you.

Coming up, in just a few moments, Secretary of State Tony Blinken will meet with the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. He he's trying to push for a ceasefire deal as Israel's war cabinet is facing a major shakeup. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:10:00]

ACOSTA: Any moment, Secretary of State Antony Blinken will land in Tel Aviv, where he's set to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu this hour and press for a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The best way, the most effective way to get everyone home, including the American hostages, is through this proposal, is through the ceasefire deal that's on the table right now. That's what we're focused on. That's what we're determined to see achieved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Today's meeting comes just 48 hours after four Israeli hostages held by Hamas since October were rescued in a deadly Israeli raid that killed scores of Palestinians.

And joining me now CNN Chief National Security Correspondent Alex Marquardt. Alex, Blinken is about to arrive in Israel. He spoke about the ceasefire deal. How does the raid impact these talks?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It could have a significant impact. It could certainly give Netanyahu confidence that he can free hostages through military operations and not need to do it through these negotiations. It could easily make Hamas recede and say, we have almost 300 people, according to them, who have been killed. We're not going to talk about a ceasefire right now.

So, it is a very fraught time. And Secretary Blinken on the tarmac in Cairo just moments ago, he only spent a few hours in Cairo speaking with the Egyptians, really emphasizing the sense of urgency right now to try to get this ceasefire across the finish line.

The ninth month of this war just started. You have over a hundred hostages who are still alive and the U.S. really seized this ceasefire as a way to ending this war. And so Secretary Blinken is going to countries that have relations with Hamas, Egypt, he just left, he'll be in Qatar later this week, to really pressure them, to pressure Hamas because the U.S. has been insisting that the onus is on Hamas to accept this deal.

[10:15:04]

Is it a guarantee that if Hamas accepted the deal that then Israel would? I don't think it is, Jim, because Netanyahu has stated clearly that unless Hamas is completely destroyed, they will not agree to a permanent ceasefire. And Hamas is saying, well, we're not going to agree to release any hostages without a permanent ceasefire deal.

So, in Israel, Blinken is certainly wanting to get assurances on that but also, Jim, for the day after. Because one criticism the U.S. has had of Israel is that Israel has not been engaging in political or diplomatic discussions about what comes after this war is over.

ACOSTA: And, Alex, the Israeli military says hostages were being held in civilian buildings. What does that tell us that the Israelis are putting that out?

MARQUARDT: Well, it tells us that these are extremely complicated operations. The remaining hostages are not necessarily all down in Rafah with a large part of the Palestinian population. This was in a refugee camp in the central part of the Gaza Strip in civilian apartment buildings.

There were certainly Hamas militants who were killed as part of this raid. There were certainly scores, we believe, of Palestinian civilians who were killed as part of this raid. Israel and the U.S. will argue, and they are arguing, that this just goes to show that Hamas is hiding behind civilians and using them as civilian shields. On the pro-Palestinian side, this is going to reinforce the argument that Israel doesn't care about killing civilians as long as they reach their military objectives and getting these hostages home.

So, it's obviously an extraordinarily complicated situation, but this will give a little bit more leeway to Netanyahu, who has been criticized for not doing enough to get the hostages home. Now, he has proven he can get some hostages home and he may try to free more through operations like this one,

ACOSTA: Right, he's been under tremendous pressure on that front. Alex, a very important reporting there.

Let me go to Paul Hancocks, our international correspondent. She's joining us as well. Paula, I mean, just talking about this with Alex a few moments ago, how does this raid impact these ceasefire talks? Does it make life a little more difficult for Tony Blinken?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, we've certainly heard from an Egyptian official that this does jeopardize things. This certainly will be taken into account when the man, Yahya Sinwar, who is going to decide whether or not this deal will be agreed to by Hamas, looks at the civilian casualties of this raid.

Now, as Alex was just saying, there were almost certainly Hamas militants that were killed in the raid. We saw from the images from our CNN producer on the ground of those coming into the Al Aqsa Martyr's Hospital, there were women and children everywhere. So, there were certainly significant numbers of civilians that were killed too. We don't have a breakdown of civilians versus militants at this point, but it will have an impact.

Now, we've heard from the Israeli side. We've heard the missing families and the hostages' forum. This is the families of those that are still being held, saying that they hope this won't make a difference. We are hearing also from the mother of one of those Almog Meir Jan, who was rescued on Saturday, she has said beyond thanking the IDF and being delighted that her son is back, clearly, that there needs to be a deal.

So, even those who have just had their loved ones handed back to them in this raid, in this mission, they are also calling for a deal that this is the way to get more of these hostages back. And this is really a unified voice we're hearing from all the hostage families, even those that have had their loved ones rescued in such a dramatic fashion. Jim?

ACOSTA: All right. Paula Hancocks and Alex Marquardt, thanks to both of you. I really appreciate it.

I want to bring in former Navy SEAL commander Dan O'Shea. He was also the coordinator of the hostage working group at the U.S. embassy in Iraq. Dan, thank you very much for joining us.

Apparently, these hostages were being held in people's homes in Gaza. What does that tell you about the execution of this raid?

DAN O'SHEA, FORMER NAVY SEAL COMMANDER: Well, on top of the fact that they were held in the civilian homes, the fact it was a daylight raid, reports are coming in that the Israeli -- the IDF force, they infiltrated the area in broad daylight under the cover of coming in as Gazan refugees, so fellow Arabs, and that's when they got.

Again, the critical thing for hostage rescue mission is, as the thought that these hostages are always on the standby being killed and murdered by those that are guarding them. So, that that's why this sub-diffuser ruse to get in was critical to the mission set. And, obviously, the escalation, you know, when the entire neighborhood is, he quote a civilian neighborhood, the entire IDF rescue force came under fire as they were evacuating the actual hostages after they'd secured them.

[10:20:00]

And then the whole area blew up into a pretty significant firefight. And that's when we know IDF helicopters and others engaged, which is why, you know, the escalation of the casualties.

But the reality is shots were being fired at the IDF throughout this entire mission as they were pulling this off. And that's why they that's why it turned into a massive firefight. But incredible successful that they got all four hostages and the loss of one IDF soldier in a mission that is fraught with risk and danger to both the rescuers, the rescuees and, of course, those on the ground.

ACOSTA: And, Dan, the Gaza Health Ministry says at least 274 people were killed in this raid. The IDF is disputing that number saying the number of casualties is under 100. CNN cannot independently verify the death toll. Could this have been done with fewer Palestinian deaths? What's your sense of it?

O'SHEA: Well, again, the reports I'm reading coming out on various number of signal groups that are coming from on the ground that the force came under attack and they responded in kind. So, again, when you're holding hostages in civilian locations that happen to be armed civilians that are firing at the rescue force, of course, there's going to be casualties. And that quote, civilian term, is probably exaggerated in terms of the numbers and the term civilian is loosely used because we know Hamas routinely fires from hospitals. They fire from churches. They fire from mosques and from school. So, this is part and parcel.

You know, they are, in a sense, keeping the entire Gazan population under hostage themselves to their ideology. And this is the result when that kind of law of armed conflict is ignored and you hold hostages in civilian houses, you're going to have civilian deaths when you watch a hostage rescue mission.

ACOSTA: And, Dan, there was a lot of speculation before this raid that most of the remaining hostages were dead. I mean, at least that's what you heard from some coroners. What does this tell you about the possibility that there may be more hostages alive than people recognize? I mean, it's very difficult to say conclusively.

O'SHEA: Yes. Well, there, I've seen multiple reports that a large majority of the hostages have been killed. There have been reports of 30, 40 that the Hamas has reported have been killed in IDF strikes. So, again, what is that number? Is it 30? Is it 40? Is it 100? We really don't know.

But the fact that the IDF world that get the intelligence on the hostage location, again, not in Rafah with the center of the focus of IDF is right now, but in the center of Gaza, that was a daring raid. I mean, this will go down in the annals of the raid on Entebbe for the IDF. And it's a remarkable accomplishment, to be honest.

And I know as someone who was in the special operations world for 30 years, pulling up these missions is fraught with risk, and it is a successful mission regardless of the numbers of civilian casualties, getting their hostages back as the end state. It's the stated goal of Netanyahu. And he's proving to the Israeli people that he's keeping his promises about turning no stone to get back all these hostages.

ACOSTA: All right. Dan O'Shea, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

O'SHEA: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Coming up, how Donald Trump gets out the vote in Vegas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: By the way, isn't that breeze nice? Do you feel the breeze? Because I don't want anybody going on me. We need every voter. I don't care about you. I just want your vote. I don't care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: More of his remarks in his first rally since becoming a convicted felon, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:00]

ACOSTA: Today, former President Donald Trump is set to attend a pre- sentencing interview after a jury found him guilty on all 34 felony counts in his hush money trial. But yesterday in Las Vegas, his most ardent supporters described the conviction as a sign of his martyrdom with the head of the Nevada Republican Party going as far as to say that Trump supporters should worship the presumptive GOP nominee and Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene comparing Trump to Jesus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Oh, President Trump is a convicted felon. Well, you want to know something? The man that I worship is also a convicted felon. And he was murdered on a Roman cross.

MICHAEL MCDONALD, CHAIR, NEVADA REPUBLICAN PARTY: I'm here at Sunset Park to worship and bring back the greatest president we've ever known in our generation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now, as temperatures soared into the triple digits, Trump told his supporters what he thinks about them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Everybody was so worried yesterday about you and they never mentioned me. I'm up here sweating like a dog. They don't think about me. I'm working my ass off.

I don't care about you. I just want your vote. I don't care. It would be suicide before Biden, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now, Trump has a history of bathing in messianic rhetoric throughout his trials. He's cast himself as a martyr, compared himself to Jesus, and re-shared fan videos like this one, which he declares, quote, God gave us Trump. And from his presidency, of course, you may recall this viral moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I am the chosen one. Somebody had to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Here to discuss our chosen ones this morning, former Assistant to President Biden Meghan Hays and CNN Political Commentator Shermichael Singleton.

Shermichael, I mean, you know, the Jesus stuff, the Messiah stuff, isn't that offensive to evangelicals, conservative Christians?

[10:30:02]

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Don't put me in a hot seat.

ACOSTA: Yes.

SINGLETON: I mean, look, I think a lot of evangelicals will look at the former president.