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Defense Rests, Hunter Biden Doesn't Testify In Gun Trial; Now: Secretary Of State Antony Blinken Set To Meet With Benjamin Netanyahu; IDF Rescues 4 Israeli Hostages During Deadly Raid In Gaza. Aired 11- 11:30a ET

Aired June 10, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:00:36]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. And we begin this hour with breaking news. Closing arguments may soon get underway in the federal gun trial of Hunter Biden. Take a look at this. This is video of the President's son arriving at court earlier this morning. Just a short time ago, his defense attorneys arrested their case and announced that he will not take the stand to testify in his own defense. CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez is outside the court for us in Wilmington, Delaware. Evan, what are the jurors likely to hear in these closing arguments?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we expect that those closing arguments are going to get underway any time now. And what jurors are going to hear first from the prosecution is that there's a mountain of evidence, there is volumes of evidence showing that Hunter Biden was using drugs around the time that he bought this gun back in October of 2018.

Now, the defense has been focusing on the fact that so far there's no evidence, direct evidence showing that Hunter Biden was smoking crack around the time in October of 2018. Now, there's text messages, there's photographs, there's testimony of drug use in September of 2018 and November of 2018. And so one of the last things that happened just in the past hour is an FBI agent retook the stand on the part of the defense, I'm sorry, on the part of the prosecution to try to home in on some text messages in October of 2018, where there is some discussion that Hunter Biden was waiting for a drug dealer not far from here in Wilmington.

In the end, the FBI agent told the court that she didn't have location data to show where Hunter Biden was when he sent those text messages. And so, therefore, again, from the part of the defense, they believe that draws some doubt as to whether those text messages are really determinative of what was happening at that time.

So when the jury gets this case, Wolf, they'll have to decide whether the prosecution has proved beyond the reasonable doubt that Hunter Biden was doing drugs, that he knowingly violated the law when he filled out the form that allowed him to buy that gun in October of 2018. Wolf? BLITZER: All right. You'll be watching it. We'll be in close touch with you, Evan, thank you very much. Evan Perez, outside the courthouse in Wilmington, Delaware.

I want to continue this conversation right now on the breaking news, joining us, the former federal prosecutor Alyse Adamson, and Seth Berenzweig, a white collar defense lawyer and constitutional attorney. Elise, what did you make of the defense's case now that they have rested?

ALYSE ADAMSON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, I think the defense made the right choice by not calling Hunter Biden, right? A defendant has a constitutional right not to testify, and most of the time they don't. I think the defense did a good job knowing when to stop. We've seen recent examples when they didn't and in other cases. But here, Naomi Biden provided testimony on Friday that she didn't see her dad using drugs during that critical time period in October and that she had been proud of him.

Now, the prosecution did cast some doubt on that account by then confronting her with text messages from Hunter where he was apologizing for not being present. But I think her testimony was strong enough to rest on. And so I think with the strategy, which is just reasonable doubt, the defense ended as strongly as they possibly could.

BLITZER: And the defendant has a right to testify and not to testify in these kinds of criminal cases. What are the pros and cons, most lawyers tell their defendant don't testify?

ADAMSON: That's absolutely right. I spent a lot of time as a prosecutor. I'm now a white collar criminal defense attorney. And I would always advise my clients, unless in the most rare occasions, not to testify, right? Because the defendant has a constitutional right not to. It is the government's burden to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Once the defendant is on the stand, who knows what's going to happen. Of course they will tell their story, but then it opens the door for the prosecution to cross examine them, and then the jury can consider what they've heard the defendant say. They could find them not credible. Whereas if it is just the prosecution's case and the defendant does not testify, then the burden is where it should be, which is on the prosecution. It's just too risky to have a defendant testify because you don't know what the prosecution is going to ask them.

[11:05:03]

BLITZER: Let me ask you this. If you were representing Hunter Biden, Seth, would you advise him to testify and tell his side of the story or just remain silent?

SETH BERENZWEIG, WHITE COLLAR DEFENSE LAWYER: I would tell him to remain silent. I concur. I think that it was too risky to put him on the stand. Abbe Lowell has been around the block on this many times. Yes. And I'm not surprised by that decision. I think it was the right decision and I think it's very telling to see who's testifying right now. I'm a little bit surprised that the prosecution is putting on a rebuttal witness. This is the special agent that testified earlier in the trial. And this person is being brought back on the stand to tie up loose ends with regard to what happened just a couple of days after Hunter Biden signed that form. Question eleven, whether he knowingly misrepresented whether he was a user or an addict.

And interestingly, the facts of that show that within a couple of days of when he signed the form, he texted his then girlfriend that he was going to meet Mookie, who was a dealer, to go ahead and get more drugs. Achilles was only as strong as his heel. And the Achilles heel in this case are the mountains of evidence, which is really just including a lot of piles of dirty laundry showing that he used shortly before and shortly after the form. So that's the reason for the rebuttal witness. And then we're going to get into closing arguments.

BLITZER: Because it seems like the prosecution in this case has a pretty strong case right now.

ADAMSON: Absolutely. To Seth's point, they do have a mountain of evidence. They have I believe they put on a forensic chemist to testify that there was some residue found on the gun pouch to prove that there was some contemporaneous drug use with the possession of the weapon. We have Hunter Biden's own words taken from his memoir, which I believe is very strong for the jury. And quite frankly, the defense tried the best that they could, but they weren't really able to bring a lot out to cast doubt. It is all about, did Hunter Biden know that he was an addict?

Did he consider himself an addict during those 11 days? And at the time he signed those forms. And there was no direct evidence, but there sure was a lot of circumstantial evidence. So if I was the prosecution, I'd be feeling pretty good going into closing arguments.

BLITZER: Hunter Biden's defense lawyers, including Abbe Lowell, who's well known here in Washington, called only three witnesses on Friday did not have any more witnesses to testify today. What does that suggest to you?

BERENZWEIG: Well, it didn't surprise me. I didn't think that they really had a lot of evidence to affirmatively put on. His daughter provided some very emotional testimony. She was subject to a pretty aggressive direct examination. I think that the defense overall has done a good job and so far as they have tried to keep the car right in the middle of the road. And they've been very specific.

But even if that evidence, and I agree with you, I think the evidence is pretty overwhelming. Even if that evidence gets them to say the one yard line, the only way that he's going to get the defense counsel is going to get the ball into the goal line is if they pull out the heartstrings of the jury. This has to be a very emotionally pulling closing. They have to humanize and sympathize Hunter Biden, and that's going to be, I predict, a really big part of the closing argument of the defense in this case. BLITZER: I'm sure that's one of the reasons the first lady has been sitting there during this course of this trial, to show her support for her son.

ADAMSON: Absolutely. She's been there, I believe every day she flew back from France to be there for him. And I think the jury sees that. I think it's also important to note that I think it's something like eight out of the 12 jurors have been personally affected by addiction, either in their family or themselves. And so they're going to be bringing that experience to their deliberations. And when they are listening to the summations that said, they're going to be instructed by the judge that they need to focus on the evidence in this case.

But I agree with Seth that the feelings that the defense is going to evoke during the closing arguments is important, but then they're going to be told that they have to focus on the evidence, apply the facts to the law. And I think the government has proved their case.

BLITZER: If he's convicted on all three counts that he's charged with right now, potentially, potentially he could face up to, what, 25 years in prison? Is that realistic at all?

BERENZWEIG: No, he's not going to face 25 years in prison. Under the sentencing guidelines, he could face no prison time at all or maybe incarceration during the weekends. The other thing to point out as well is that any kind of a sentence will be stayed pending appeal. There are some appeal issues here, and I know it's a little bit premature to talk about that because we don't have a jury verdict, although we'll probably have one in a couple of days.

You have a very interesting recent decision out of the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals stating that this kind of a prosecution essentially constitutes unlawful discrimination based upon prior drug use because people can't have their right to gun ownership inhibited by prior use. And there could be an argument that, and this defense has said during these 11 days, no one saw him use drugs. And what they're asking the jury to do is to infer and essentially collapse that down into the window of time because of his prior drug use.

So you have an issue on the law. You're going to have an issue with respect to the judge barring expert witness testimony with regard to his state of mind. So it's going to be a close call. But if there is a prosecution, if there is a conviction, stand by for appeal.

[11:10:08]

BLITZER: Yes. And a lot of lawyers have said to me that they think he should have pled guilty in exchange for a reduced sentence recommendation from the prosecution. You think that would have been wise?

ADAMSON: That's very hard to say. It's hard to say what was in the mind of the defense or of Mr. Biden himself. When you plead guilty, you give up your appellate rights. And to Seth's point, there are some real questions about the constitutionality of this particular statute. So it could be that it was a Hail Mary decision. We'll go to trial. You know, the best case scenario, we get an acquittal. The worst case scenario, it goes up on appeal.

A lot of times we do, as defense attorney, recommend taking a plea when the evidence, as strong as it is here, because that is taken into account during sentencing and because he is eligible for probation, it might have put him in a better position, but it's really tough, especially with where the statute stands legally.

BLITZER: Alyse and Seth, to both of you, good discussion. Thank you very, very much. We'll stay on top of this story. And still ahead this hour, Secretary of State Antony Blinken is in Tel Aviv right now and about to meet with the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as political pressure on the Israeli leader is clearly growing.

Plus, Donald Trump set to be interviewed any moment now by a probation official. This is a necessary step before a sentencing scheduled for next month in his criminal hush money case.

And a severe hailstorm significantly damages an Austrian Airlines flight. Passengers say they could feel the hail hitting the plane. We'll have details. Stay with us. You're in the CNN Newsroom.

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[11:16:22]

BLITZER: There's breaking news on our top story. The judge is now reading the jury instructions in the Hunter Biden trial. After this, the court will take a quick lunch break and then have closing arguments. We'll of course, continue to monitor all of this, bring you the very latest standby for that.

But there's other important news we're following right now as well. Secretary of State Antony Blinken has arrived in Israel. He's there for a crucial meeting with the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Tel Aviv just a short time from now. This meeting follows a tumultuous few days that saw Israeli forces rescue four more hostages in Gaza while killing scores of Palestinians and a resignation by a war cabinet member, Benny Gantz, as a direct protest against Netanyahu.

Secretary Blinken said just a short time ago that his focus remains on pushing the Biden peace proposal forward. Listen.

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ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: The best way, the most effective way to get everyone home, including the American hostages, is through this proposal, is through the ceasefire deal that's on the table right now. That's what we're focused on, that's what we're determined to see achieve.

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BLITZER: President Biden announced the peace proposal on the table right now and said it was an Israeli proposal. I want to bring our correspondent in Tel Aviv right now, Oren Liebermann into this for us. Oren, good to have you back in Israel right now. Our chief national security correspondent Alex Marquardt is here with me in the CNN Newsroom. But Oren, these new details that are emerging about how this Israeli raid unfolded and how the U.S. military provided support, walk us through what we're learning now.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, this was a massive military operation from the Israeli military that took weeks of planning as well as hundreds of personnel, not only military, but also intelligence and a special police unit to make this happen. It all began to play out just before noon on Saturday. That's when Israeli forces moved in. Witnesses say that some of the Israeli forces were disguised, dressing as either Hamas militants or displaced Palestinians to get as close as possible to what Israel said was their goal. Two apartment buildings that had four hostages held in those buildings. And that was where they were aiming for to get in, get the hostages and get out as quickly as possible.

It took some time, but in the end Israel was able to bring four hostages, including one of the most prominent hostages, back from October 7th out of Hamas captivity and back into Israel. It was celebrated throughout the country, including by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. But it came at a staggering cost on the ground as Israel had to extract from a very difficult situation, essentially a firefighter that played out midday on Saturday as Israel tried to extract those hostages. That's when the Palestinian Ministry of Health says Israeli strikes killed 274 Palestinians and wounded hundreds more.

Israel disputes those figures, saying that there were less than 100 casualties. CNN cannot independently verify either of those numbers. But in either case, it remains one of the deadliest days in Gaza in months of warfare here, and it has drawn international condemnation, swift and severe. Of course, the U.S. has backed Israel in this case, welcoming the release of the hostages, but also saying that Palestinians were tragically killed as part of this operation. That is the fraught environment into which secretary of State Antony Blinken now enters here. On top of that, of course, the resignation of one of the war cabinet ministers. So a touchy situation all around here, Wolf.

BLITZER: Very touchy indeed. Oren, standby, we're going to get back to you. I want to bring Alex into this conversation. Alex, as you know, Secretary Blinken has arrived in Israel coming from Egypt, where he met with the Egyptian President el-Sisi earlier in the day. He's also expected to meet with Benny Gantz, the now former Israeli war cabinet minister, who departed in protest against some of Netanyahu's policies right now. How close do you think Secretary Blinken is to actually producing a deal that would result in more hostages being released, would result in greater medical and food going into the Palestinians in Gaza, would create at least a temporary ceasefire.

[11:20:33]

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I don't think that there's an expectation that it's imminent or that Secretary Blinken will emerge from the Middle East with some kind of announcement. But he is certainly there at this pivotal moment now that we've entered the 9th month of this war to try to get this deal across the finish line, certainly from the Israelis in these meetings with the prime minister and the defense minister, he will be seeking guarantees that if Hamas were to agree to this deal, that Israel would certainly agree to it. I don't think that's guaranteed at this moment. We've heard Prime Minister Netanyahu say that it's a non-starter. They would agree to a permanent ceasefire if Hamas is not destroyed.

And then on his other stops, Egypt, Jordan, Qatar, he is looking to those countries to put renewed pressure, more pressure on Hamas to agree to this ceasefire deal that is on the table. This is a deal that the U.S. says is entirely on Hamas to accept. That is something that they, that he says that they have put forward themselves just a few weeks ago, so they should agree to it now. But it is clear that there is still a sticking point about the end of the war. Secretary Blinken was in Egypt, as you mentioned just earlier today, only for a few hours. We know that Egypt spoke with Hamas earlier in the day. So he was there to speak with Egyptians, to pressure Hamas. He was going to Qatar later in the week to do the same thing.

I think there are new questions about how much, how close we are to that ceasefire and to what extent. It was complicated by this Israeli operation, which thankfully brought four hostages home, but as Oren was just saying, killed scores of Palestinians. And certainly the U.S. has had major concerns about the way Israel has carried out its military operations because of civilians and the threat to them.

BLITZER: Egypt and Qatar are key intermediaries between the U.S. and Israel on the one hand, and Hamas on the other. The U.S. and Israel don't deal directly with Hamas, but Egypt and Qatar do, they're major players.

MARQUARDT: They are the main mediators. I mean, throughout this process, the U.S. has been engaged with the other mediators and with Israel and those two, Egypt and Qatar, deal directly with Hamas. But, Wolf, right now what we're looking at is a situation where Hamas is not ready to enter into a ceasefire agreement unless they get an agreement from Israel that the war will end. And Israel is simply saying we're not going to agree to that until we get our hostages home.

Now, we could have a situation where a ceasefire, a pause, gets off the ground for several weeks and dozens of Israeli hostages are released, Palestinian prisoners are released. But it is really the question about an end to this war and what will happen in the longer term. That is really the sticking point. And then you can certainly be sure that Secretary Blinken is going to be pressing Israel on what the plan is for what we call the day after this war, because the criticism of Prime Minister Netanyahu and his government from the U.S. and others has been that there is no plan, that Israel has not been engaging on that diplomatic and political front to decide to figure out what will happen in Gaza after this, because if nothing is decided, there will be a vacuum into which Hamas could reemerge.

BLITZER: That was the same criticism that Benny Gantz, the former Israeli war cabinet minister, leveled just before his resignation as well. Alex, thank you very much. And, Oren, thanks to you as well in Tel Aviv for us.

I want to get some analysis right now on these truly fast moving events. Mark Esper is joining us. He's now a CNN global affairs analyst. He was the defense secretary in the Trump administration. Mr. Secretary, thanks for joining us. What message do you think Secretary Blinken needs to deliver to Prime Minister Netanyahu in his upcoming meeting that's about to be given?

MARK ESPER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I think the message, Wolf, will be that continue along the path of supporting this deal that is on the table. I think the more important meetings were in Cairo, where he just came from. And then, of course, he'll be going to Qatar and probably talking to others. He needs them to put pressure on Hamas to finalize this deal. It's been there for what, a week now. Previous deals have been out there that Hamas has rejected. So I think at this point in time, it's a matter of pressing the Arab states to put pressure on Hamas to sign up to the deal.

BLITZER: We're learning new details, Mr. Secretary, about the Israeli rescue mission. Some witnesses say they saw Israeli soldiers disguised as Hamas fighters and civilians. We know it took place in broad daylight at 11:00 a.m. local time. The hostages were rescued from various apartment buildings. What does all that tell you?

[11:25:01]

ESPER: Look, clearly it was a very complex mission, a very dangerous one, but one that they thought was worth the risk to rescue these four Israelis that have been held now for, what, nearly nine months. And as we other reporting talks about rehearsals being conducted, mock up sites to do practices, all kinds of other things. But I think it shows, of course, the commitment they have to returning Israeli hostages. You know, well, if there are two things that the Israeli population wants, and they probably, in this order, are, number one, bring the hostages home, and number two, end Hamas. Make sure Hamas can never do again what they've done. And so I think this reflects that notion and that today, you know, I think Bibi Netanyahu is still celebrating the success of the IDF and is riding that wave a little bit.

And of course, that comes into contradiction a little bit with what Benny Gantz did yesterday. But I think this will continue to play out along these lines.

BLITZER: As you know, Mr. Secretary, Gaza officials say this Israeli raid killed what they call at least 274 Palestinians, making it potentially the bloodiest day in Gaza over the past six months. Israel disputes that figure and believes it's under 100. Could the IDF have responded differently when it came under fire in a way that would have killed fewer people at this rather densely packed refugee camp?

ESPER: Well, I don't believe the Hamas numbers. They've been dubious from day one, and so I discount them. I'm more inclined to trust the Israeli numbers. You know, it's hard to tell without knowing exactly how the operation went down. We know that the first hostages was rescued rather cleanly, but at the second site they were, it was interrupted by Hamas, and that's when a street fight broke out.

And so it's hard to tell what the details were with regard to how they tried to protect the rescue team, how they tried to protect the hostages as they were taken from the site and taken to safety. So it's hard to say, look, you can always say we could have done this better, we could have done that better. But at the end of the day, it's good to see the Israeli hostages rescued.

I think the bigger question again, and we keep reminding, you know, the audience about this, is why is Hamas hiding hostages within dense civilian populations? Why are they being held within the apartments of Palestinian civilians? I mean, all these questions continue to come up, which is why pressure needs to be put on Hamas to release the hostages and stop using innocent Palestinians as human shields.

BLITZER: Mark Esper, the former defense secretary, thanks very much for being with us.

And coming up, the first for a former president of the United States, Donald Trump is expected to speak to a probation officer today, just ahead of his July sentencing. We'll have more on the process now that he's a convicted felon. We have details. That's coming up next.

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