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CNN International: Blinken In Jordan, Looking To Build Momentum For Gaza Ceasefire; Blinken Meets With Gantz Before Heading To Jordan; New Israeli Statement Suggests Netanyahu Poised To Support U.S.-Backed Ceasefire Plan. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired June 11, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN HOST: Good morning or good evening, depending on where you're watching. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York.

Straight ahead on CNN NEWSROOM, the U.S. Secretary of State is in Jordan today, as pressure grows for a Gaza ceasefire deal. We are live this hour in Tel Aviv and in Beirut. Plus, the jury in the Hunter Biden gun trial resumes deliberations. We are live outside the courthouse. And Donald Trump juggling his conviction with his campaign. We will look at why the former President is quoting conservative Christians.

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is trying to build momentum for a Gaza ceasefire proposal, saying that he is quote "hopeful about the latest Hamas response." Blinken is now in Jordan, where he attended an international conference on emergency humanitarian aid for Gaza. UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres is there as well, an urgent end to the quote "horror of war". Blinken is expected to meet any moment now with the Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Mohammad Mustafa.

Now, Blinken's whirlwind day began in Israel where he met with Benny Gantz, the former war cabinet member who just resigned on Sunday. Blinken also greeted today some of the families of the hostages. And a written statement just released by an Israeli government official suggesting that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is ready to sign up for the U.S. outlined ceasefire plan. Blinken also saying that it is a quote "hopeful sign that Hamas is welcoming a UN Security Council resolution endorsing the ceasefire", but he also says that formal approval must come from the top.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think there is a strong consensus, again, behind moving forward the proposal, but it really is down to one person at this point. We await the answer from Hamas, and that will speak volumes about what they want, what they're looking for, who they're looking after.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SOLOMON: The UN Security Council vote approving the U.S. outlined ceasefire was the first time that it endorsed such a plan to end the war. 14 of 15 members voted in favor Monday. Only one, Russia, abstained. Now, the three-stage proposal would eventually lead to the return of all hostages, a permanent ceasefire and the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza. The Palestinian UN Ambassador spoke shortly after the vote. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIYAD MANSOUR, PALESTINIAN OBSERVER TO THE UNITED NATIONS: The proof is in the pudding. We will see who are the ones who are interested to see this resolution to become a reality and those who are obstructing it and they want to continue the war of genocide against our people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: Meantime, the UN Human Rights Office says that it is quote "profoundly shocked by the civilian casualties of an Israeli operation to free four hostages held in a Gaza refugee camp." Gaza officials say the 274 Palestinians were killed in Nuseirat, including women, including children, and the UN suggests that both Israel and Palestinian armed groups may have committed war crimes, condemning Hamas for holding civilian hostages against international law. Now, Israel is accusing the military leader of Hamas of profiting off the deaths of Gaza civilians. The IDF responding to a Wall Street Journal report that suggests that Yahya Sinwar believes Hamas has the upper hand in the war.

Let's get more now from Paula Hancocks, she is live for us in Jerusalem, and Ben Wedeman, who is in Beirut. Paula, let's start with you again. During his stop in Israel, Antony Blinken met with both the Israeli Prime Minister but also Benny Gantz, who resigned from Israel's war cabinet over the weekend. Paula, what's your sense of the takeaway from those meetings?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rahel, the entire reason, really, for the Secretary of State to be here was trying to push this ceasefire hostage proposal forward, as it appeared to be going nowhere. So, that would have been the main topic of conversation, certainly here in Israel. Now, we have seen an Israeli government statement since Blinken has moved on from Israel, and it says that Israel appears to be moving towards accepting this proposal from the U.S. Now, the U.S. has said that Israel already accepted it, this three-stage proposal, which would end in that complete ceasefire, the release of hostages, Palestinian prisoners and humanitarian aid getting into Gaza.

But, we haven't heard that in so many words, certainly not from the Prime Minister. So, in this statement, they have said that Israel stands by its demands to not end the war until they have made sure that the political and military capabilities of Hamas have been destroyed, until all the hostages are released, and until Gaza does not pose a threat.

[11:05:00] Now, on the face of it, it does seem to work to differ slightly from this proposal that we have seen, which has been endorsed by the U.S. President Joe Biden. But, it's -- it appears to be the closest we have come up until this point of Israel's Prime Minister accepting this deal. Now, of course, Hamas has to accept the deal as well. You heard the Secretary of State there saying it's up to one man, Yahya Sinwar, who is the head of Gaza, has to officially agree to it, and they are waiting for an official response from him.

SOLOMON: And Paula, to that end, I mean, this Wall Street Journal reporting that the Hamas leader essentially saying, not essentially saying, actually saying, according to this reporting, we have the Israelis right where we want them, in leaked messages. What more are we learning from these messages?

HANCOCKS: Well, CNN can't independently verify the authenticity of these messages. But, the reporting, as per Wall Street Journal, is that these messages are saying that Yahya Sinwar believes that they have Israel where they want Israel, but they do have the upper hand, and really talking to the Hamas leadership in Doha and Qatar, where their political leadership is based, saying do not make concessions. We are able to push for a permanent ceasefire, also suggesting as well allegedly that civilian casualties are accepted as a means to an end, again, Wall Street Journal's reporting. The Israeli military, though, has responded to that report, saying that Sinwar profits off the deaths of Gaza civilians. Rahel.

SOLOMON: OK. Paula Hancocks live for us there in Jerusalem. Paula, thank you.

Let's get over now to Ben Wedeman, who was in Beirut for us. Ben, this visit from Blinken really ramping up the pressure to reach a deal, and now, you have Israel, I mean, appearing poised to agree to Biden's ceasefire plan. What happens now?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, everybody is waiting for some sort of response from Hamas. Now, Hamas responded positively to that UN Security Council vote, but it has yet to sort of pass final judgment on the U.S.-backed proposal. Now, we do know that Osama Hamdan, a senior official of Hamas based here in Beirut, has said that what Hamas is looking for is a permanent ceasefire and a total withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza. Those are basic elements that they are interested in. And short of that, they won't go along with the deal.

Now, if you look at the American proposal, that is basically what the Americans are suggesting. On the other hand, what we heard, this statement that came out from an unnamed Israeli government official would indicate that on the one hand, yes, they are in favor that this proposal is not -- does not contradict their basic aims, but their basic aims continued to be the destruction of Hamas' military and governing capabilities, and that they will continue until they achieve those ends. So, there is a bit of a contradiction. So, we really have to wait and hear of what Hamas has to say, and then take it from there. But, keep in mind that Prime Minister Netanyahu himself has not

explicitly accepted the U.S.-backed proposal. And I think as Paula was referencing, he is now, in the absence of Benny Gantz in the war cabinet, he is under more pressure from those extremist elements in his cabinet who have threatened that if he accepts a ceasefire deal and does not carry the war to an end, meaning the destruction of Hamas, that they will withdraw from his cabinet, the government falls and then you're back to square one.

SOLOMON: OK. Ben Wedeman live for us there in Beirut. Ben thank you.

We are going to get to some breaking news now. CNN has just learned that the jury in Hunter Biden's federal gun trial has reached a verdict. Just a reminder, this is the first criminal trial ever against the child of a sitting U.S. President. We want to take you to these live pictures now from Wilmington, Delaware, just outside the courthouse, as we await the details of what the verdict is.

Just a reminder of some of the charges that Hunter Biden was facing. He was facing one count of false statement on a federal gun form. He was facing one count of false statement on a federal gun form. So, that makes it two, of course, and then another count, the third count of unlawful possession of a firearm. Hunter Biden, this all sort of stems around this allegation, and we'll see how the jury decides here that he illegally purchased and possessed a gun in 2018 while abusing drugs, which is a violation of federal law.

Now, take a step back here. This was a case brought by Special Counsel David Weiss. Special Counsel tends to be brought in when an administration is hoping for a bit more separation from the actual proceedings, the legal proceedings, obviously.

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This is the son of a sitting U.S. President. So, inherently, there are some political considerations to consider.

Let me bring in now CNN Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider, who is with us down, who has been following this. Jessica, give us a sense. I mean, what did the jury decide? Do we know yet?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: We don't know the verdict yet, Rahel. Just to give our viewers a sense, things are a bit delayed because they don't allow any electronics in this federal courthouse in Wilmington, Delaware. So, the system that we've been relying on is we have a team of reporters in that courtroom. They actually have to hand write the notes as they're getting information from inside the courtroom. And then, we have college students, interns, actually running those notes out to our teams to get the information transmitted.

So, what we know so far is that the jury has alerted the judge and the court personnel that they've come to a verdict in this case. Now, what's interesting is shortly after they convened at nine o'clock this morning, so they've only been deliberating two hours this morning and then they had one hour of deliberation yesterday, we know that Hunter Biden actually exited the courtroom sometime around 9:30 or so. We understand that he and his family have set up at a nearby hotel. So, you actually see moments ago, Hunter Biden and his wife walking into the courtroom, the courthouse. So, obviously, they've gotten the word there is a verdict. They will enter the courtroom.

Rahel, sometimes, it does take a little bit of time for the verdict to actually be read. The judge has to assemble the jury into the courtroom. All of the court personnel has to be at the ready. So, sometimes, it takes from the moment we get word that there is a verdict, it can take 30 minutes plus to actually get word of what that verdict is.

But, again, Hunter Biden, as you mentioned and laid out, he is facing these three felony counts, two of them for, as the government alleges, improperly filling out these forms when he bought the gun, not acknowledging that he was a user of drugs, as the prosecution has claimed he was at the time in October 2018 when he bought this gun. And then also, the third count relates to possessing a gun while also using drugs, again, what the prosecution alleges here.

This was actually not a long trial. We had jury selection last Monday that lasted one day. And this trial was essentially about five days. We had four days last week, and then yesterday, there were closing arguments. The jury began deliberating around 3:30 yesterday afternoon, deliberated for an hour. So, these aren't a lot of criminal counts, just three criminal counts, and that probably speaks to why the jury is deciding or has decided relatively quickly here. So, yeah, we continue to watch the courthouse here, watch our email, and wait and see what the verdict is.

If Hunter Biden is convicted on one or all three of these counts, there is the possibility for prison time. All three counts would carry up to 25 years in prison, plus a nearly million dollar fine, conviction on just one of these counts does carry, let's see -- what is it, up to 10 years in prison for just one count. However, I will note, given that Hunter Biden has no criminal history, it's also possible he doesn't get prison time and might get some sort of probation. And then, of course, his team would likely appeal this. And any sentence he got would be paused while this appeal happens. So, yes, we are waiting to find out what the verdict is here, Rahel.

SOLOMON: And Jessica, as we wait for a verdict from this jury, which we should -- which, say to our viewers, included a pretty even split of men and women, six women, six men. Give us a sense just on -- I mean, you laid out there. They had about three hours of deliberations. The trial --

SCHNEIDER: Yeah.

SOLOMON: -- lasted again about how long, and just sort of lay out the broad strokes, if you might, of what the defense's sort of argument was here. I mean, we have a good sense from the government side what their allegations were and what they claim. What was the defense's argument?

SCHNEIDER: Well, you talked about the jury, first of all, Rahel. Let me just address that. Like you said, six men, six women on this 12- member jury. I actually read through the jury profile this morning, as we were sitting and waiting for this verdict. It was really interesting. It struck me how many of these jurors either own guns or they have family members who own guns. And then, in addition, there were several jury members who admitted to the fact that they have family members who are drug addicts. One woman, one juror, even had a sister who was sentenced for drug possession, served time in prison and was an addict. She talked about the fact that she has recovered. But, it was really interesting to hear how many personal stories these jurors had related to the charges at hand here against Hunter Biden.

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Now, what we heard in the closing arguments yesterday was really -- this comes down to a timeline and believing which side you believe on this timeline here. The prosecution talked about the fact that Hunter Biden must have been using drugs at the time he bought this gun in October 2018, because there is evidence he used drugs in September 2018, and at points after the drug -- or after the gun purchase.

The defense, however, is saying, look, in the 13 or so witnesses that you heard from, no one ever directly said that Hunter Biden was using drugs at that exact time of -- about a 10-day period in October that he had bought this gun and then still owned this gun. And the defense was really poking holes in the prosecution's case. And sometimes, that's all it takes, is that reasonable doubt. If any of these jurors or all of these jurors have that reasonable doubt, they could potentially come back with an acquittal here.

So, it really comes down to the timeline and what the jury believes the fact, the fact that Hunter Biden possessed this gun was never in dispute. The defense acknowledged that Hunter Biden had bought this gun. And the real question was, when he checked that form that said he was not using drugs at the time of the gun purchase, was that a wrong statement? And then, did he thereby break the law? That is the key issue here. And we'll see what the jurors -- what conclusion they come to.

SOLOMON: Yeah. Jessica, what's interesting is, is the question sort of leading up to this week is, will that the man at the center of this case, Hunter Biden, take the stand, or won't he, which is his right to not? And he did it.

SCHNEIDER: Yeah.

SOLOMON: So, walk us through who we did hear from and who we have heard from and seen. I mean, we saw the First Lady even appear -- I mean, just give us a lay of the land in terms of the characters involved here.

SCHNEIDER: Yeah. Sure thing. I mean, Jill Biden, the First Lady, who is Hunter Biden's stepmother, basically his mother from the time he was a young boy, and lost his mother and sister in that car crash, she was very much in the courtroom. The only time that she wasn't in the courtroom was when she had to travel overseas with the President. And even in that instance, she came back pretty quickly after she fulfilled some of her official duties surrounding the D-Day ceremonies in France. She came back in the courtroom and she has been there pretty much every day of this very short trial.

We actually -- we didn't hear from the First Lady. She didn't have any firsthand knowledge of the facts at issue here. The people that we did hear from, we heard from Hunter Biden's ex-wife. We heard from Hunter Biden's sister-in-law. And I am just getting word that Hunter Biden has been found guilty on all charges. Producers, can you tell me that that's right, because I'm not seeing it in my email?

SOLOMON: That is what --

SCHNEIDER: OK.

SOLOMON: -- I'm hearing, Jessica, as well.

SCHNEIDER: Yes. So, guilty on all charges. Again, there is this delay in what we're getting via email. But, yes, it appears that the verdict has been announced in the courtroom, Hunter Biden guilty on all three felony counts, and that is -- that's going to be a big blow and disappointment to the President and to Hunter Biden's family, who were probably optimistic that he might get off on these charges. So, yes, guilty on all three charges. And let's say, concluding he violated the laws meant to prevent drug addicts from owning firearms.

Rahel, yeah, I mean, this guilty verdict means that Hunter Biden definitely faces prison time. Even just being found guilty on one of these counts carries up to 10 years in prison. Again, Hunter Biden does not have a criminal record. So, it will likely be much less. But, the question is, how much less? And there is still that potential that he could serve some prison time, likely, even if not prison time, probation time.

And of course, this is coming during an election year, during the campaign season, when Hunter Biden has already drawn the fire of Republicans. They have consistently railed against him for what they've called shady business dealings, accused the current President of being involved in those business dealings, which there has never been any proof of. But, this just sort of adds even more fire to the Republicans' claims against the current President, Joe Biden, just as we are headed into an election. Rahel.

SOLOMON: Jessica, well said. Just to remind our audience here, as Jessica said, convicted Hunter Biden of all three felonies that he was charged with. To remind you, he was charged with two counts of making false statements on a federal gun form, of which he has been found guilty, and one count of on lawful possession of a firearm which, again, as he has now been found guilty.

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Jessica, we will let you continue to do your reporting. Thank you. We will check back with you soon.

In the meantime, I want to send it over to my colleague, Erica Hill, who joins me now for more on this verdict. Erica, important to remind our audience of how dramatic of a turnaround this case was. Not long ago, there was actually a plea deal that fell apart in dramatic fashion. They obviously then went to court, and the jury has decided that Hunter Biden is in fact guilty.

ERICA HILL, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. It's such an important point, when we think back to where we were and watching that plea deal. I think dramatic was exactly the right word to describe it as it did unravel.

Digging into this, in terms of -- from that legal perspective, I'm joined now by Jeff Swartz, attorney and of course former judge. Jeff, good to have you here. So, guilty, pretty quick for a jury to come back three-ish hours there, guilty on all three charges. And of course, the question that now looms is, what in fact could that sentence be? First, just your reaction to the jury's finding.

JEFF SWARTZ, FORMER MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT JUDGE: I'm not overly surprised by a quick verdict. I felt this was either going to be a quick verdict or it was going to be extended and possibly end up in a hung jury, depending upon whether the defendant could find that one person they needed to feel sorry for him or to want to give him some sort of free ride. And that's basically the way it went. I thought that it was a cut and dry case. I didn't think that that was going to be that big a problem for the prosecution to prove their case.

As far as sentencing is concerned, you have to go back to what you were just talking about with Erica, and that's the idea that there was a plea deal and he was willing to accept his responsibility. Although it was a deferral program, he still had to accept this responsibility. It all got thrown off the rails because there were these tax charges in California that were supposed to be included. At least, Mr. Biden thought they were. But, the prosecution said maybe not so much.

The judge got upset over the idea that the plea deal was falling apart and said, you're just going to trial. I don't think that they can punish him what we call the trial tax by making him more punished because he went to trial. I don't think he ever really denied anything, at least not himself. And so, I think he'll accept responsibility. Whether he'll go to jail or not, is a big question mark. It will be minimal jail if it's anything at all. People don't generally go and serve long prison sentences for this. So, I don't think that that's really a big threat here. It depends on how he scores out on the guidelines.

He still has to worry about Los Angeles or California. I think it's in Los Angeles, the tax cases. He still has to worry about that. But, again, he accepted responsibility. He has paid the taxes. He has paid all the penalties. He has paid all the interest. Yet, they're continuing to prosecute him for it, which normally doesn't happen. So, I think in this case, it's a two-tier system. Yes, he is being punished because he is a Biden.

HILL: So, you think he is being punished because he is a Biden. Do you think that that will come into play at all with the sentencing? Now, you laid out some of the other factors that could come into play. But, how could that figure in?

SWARTZ: It shouldn't. We have guidelines, and you get a base number for what your offense relates to and any additional offenses. These all revolve around the same act. So, they'll be lumped together. Then he is going to get credit for acceptance of responsibility because he is going to walk into the probation office and accept responsibility. He is going to be remorseful. I think that his addiction will work in his favor. And I think that in the end, if he gets any kind of jail sentence at all, it's going to be somewhere in the six-month range, something like that. I don't see him getting a long-term sentencing.

The problem is that I think that a lot of this prosecution, like Mr. Trump claimed in his case, there is a two-tiered system. There was for Mr. Trump. He got hurt pretty hard. And I just think there are people think that Mr. Biden should suffer the same consequences.

HILL: Which leads me to -- I know that you and I discussed legal matters, but it is impossible to ignore sort of the political implications here.

SWARTZ: Right.

HILL: Also important to point out that the President Joe Biden is not on trial here. He was not found guilty. He has not been charged with anything. But, this will continue to come up on the campaign trail. As you just laid out, if people believe that Donald Trump was part of a two-tiered system of justice and people on different ends of the political spectrum see that differently, obviously, and you're noting Hunter Biden may as well, how do you anticipate that playing out?

[11:25:00]

Because in many ways, the U.S. justice system is also firmly on the campaign trail and in many ways on the ballot this November.

SWARTZ: It is, and that's part of the problem. We've talked about -- I'm sure you heard the phrase celebrity justice. We've seen it happen over and over and over again within our justice system. And I think to a certain extent, some people get punished more, some people get punished less, for who they are, as opposed to what they've done. And that really is a problem. I can't say that it is, and we've seen it whether it's O.J. Simpson, whether it's any other celebrity who has gone to trial. Felicity Huffman, guy ended up getting time on probably a charge that she should not have gotten any time on. But, she was a celebrity. Those things occur.

Then again, there are people who don't get charged at all because they are celebrities and they find their way out of cases. And we've seen this with Alec Baldwin. We've seen this with other people. I think that that's what we see within our political system. And somehow or another, we have to lose this feeling, or this love affair or hate affair with celebrities or politicians. They're entitled to their due process like anybody else. They should be treated like everybody else. They shouldn't complain when they're treated like everybody else because they're getting what everybody else gets.

So, there is kind of a -- this love-hate affair that just has to come to an end, and the justice system suffers because of it.

HILL: Yeah. It's true. Former judge Jeff Swartz, always appreciate your insight. Thank you for being with me.

CNN legal analyst Michael Moore --

SWARTZ: My pleasure.

HILL: -- also with me now this hour. Michael, as we look at this decision pretty quick, as I was just discussing with Jeff there, pretty quick that the jury came back, guilty on all counts. What is your gut reaction to that verdict?

MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, & FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Yeah. I'm glad to be with you. I'm not surprised, frankly. This was a relatively simple case, and that is whether or not he was truthful on a form when he bought the gun. And we know from the testimony that he was having drug issues before and around that time of the -- is the people he was associated with. He was either using drugs with or introducing them to drugs. He had been rehabbed. There is not really a question there. The question was, whether or not his defense was going to be able to poke a hole, if you will, in this idea that he might not have known he was an addict. And that was a stretch, I think, to go with.

But then, you sort of danced with what (inaudible) if you're the defense lawyer in some of these cases, and that's really all they had, frankly, to work with. So, it's not surprising. And frankly, it's not surprising that the jury come back in a case like this that quickly. Sometimes, that's a good sign when you hear that, so that light goes on in the jury rooms if there is a bad sign, but it typically means there weren't a lot to discuss, but they wanted to give it some due consideration. That's why I think you saw deliberations for about three hours.

HILL: I guess whether it's a good or bad sign, depends on which side of the courtroom you're sitting on at the end of the day, the prosecution.

MOORE: Exactly right.

HILL: Yeah. The prosecution, in closing arguments, knowing the evidence was personal, ugly, but absolutely necessary. There was a lot made of that evidence in the first couple of days of the trial about how graphic and salacious in many ways some of the testimony was and how raw it was and how that may sit with a jury, half of whom had some experience, specifically with loved ones dealing with drug addiction. Do you think some of that was overblown now? Michael, can you hear me?

MOORE: I can hear you. I'm sorry. I thought you were asking somebody else.

HILL: No, no. That was for you.

MOORE: OK. No. No, I thought -- I don't think it was overblown. I mean, the prosecution had to put up evidence to deal with this, what the drug issues were, what that -- those -- the factors were, the circumstances were around that time. And obviously, the defense wanted to question some of that. So, I don't know that it was overblown. It's uncomfortable (ph) testimony to put that information out, I'm sure for the family, but at the same time, not something they haven't lived with on a day-to-day basis. It's not -- never good to air your laundry, I'm sure.

But, the prosecution bears the burden of proof and they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was either addicted to drugs or using drugs at the time he purchased this gun. And so, the way to do that is to sort of paint this bigger picture. It's a messy question. It's a -- I think it is going to raise some appellate issues. We already know that out of the Fifth Circuit there was a question on this whole provision. And I think they have a -- the defense has an avenue to appeal on grounds that have merit. But, you also had testimony that was very convincing about these circumstances at the time.

[11:30:00]

HILL: Let me just stop with you on that. You know the defense has grounds to appeal. In which areas? Where did you -- where would you think they have the best chance at appeal?

MOORE: The question is whether or not this is technically illegal and a violation and whether or not the requirement that you sign on to this form of whether or not you're a drug user, is a constitutional implication there as it relates to your Second Amendment rights, as it relates to -- is that something that there is an infringement if the fact that somebody may have used drugs at a time. And so, does it matter if you may have at one time been an addict?

So, for instance, somebody might be an alcoholic. They say they're an alcoholic the rest of their entire life. Somebody may have at one time been a drug addict or they a drug addict their entire life. Does that forever prohibit them from owning a gun on the Second Amendment? And so, these are things that an appellate court will dig into because there are constitutional questions. Anytime we talk about the right to have a gun and things that may infringe upon that right, there are constitutional issues as it relates to the Second Amendment.

So, I just think you will see this percolate around. And I do think it's a legitimate argument and a legitimate at least question that will have to be decided by an appeals court. And that's, I think, where they will go with this. I mean, there is always also sort of the whole kerfuffle that went along with the plea agreement and the fact that the court didn't want to take a plea agreement there, these things wrapped up together. And so, now they found themselves in a trial, and now he is in a worse position because he also has this conviction. Now, he has got to go face a tax case, which we're going to -- those things were going to be resolved.

I think those things may also find their way into an appeal of whether or not there should have been a prohibition based upon good faith negotiations and the recommendations and assurances made at the time about an agreement. Those things, I think, will find their way to appeal -- into an appeal. We're not talking about on some frivolous claim, but actually issues that I think are going to go (inaudible) particularly interested in as we have seen in other federal jurisdictions.

HILL: Yeah. So, we are not done yet, sort of where we stand at this moment. Michael, stay with us.

I also want to bring in my colleague, Marshall Cohen, who has been there at the courthouse, joining me now on the phone. So, Marshall, walk us through. Court has now adjourned. This was pretty quick in terms of the reading of the verdict.

VOICE OF MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Hey, Erica. Yeah, I'm standing outside of the courthouse here in Wilmington, Delaware. It was three hours. That's all it took for the federal jury here, 12 Delaware residents, to render guilty verdicts on all three counts, guilty on lying on the federal gun forms that Hunter Biden filled out when he purchased a revolver in 2018, and also guilty of possessing the gun for 11 days in 2018 while he was addicted to drugs. It's against federal law for a drug user or a drug addict to buy a gun or own a gun. And the unanimous verdict from this jury today is it that is exactly what Hunter Biden did.

So, it's a massive victory for Special Counsel David Weiss and his team of prosecutors who have been investigating the President's son since 2018. This has been a very long-running investigation. This is the first time that they have tested their charges in court in a trial and now they have a significant victory.

For Hunter Biden, this means that his problems are growing. He could possibly be sentenced to prison. The judge did not schedule a sentencing date that said we're probably would be within the next three months or so, up to 25 years. That's the statutory maximum that he could possibly be sentenced to. That's not expected. Erica. He is a first-time offender now. He is a convicted felon now, but it is his first blemish on his criminal record. So, first-time offenders don't often get anything near the maximum. So, I wouldn't overestimate the type of prison exposure he would have.

But, this is obviously a horrible outcome for the Biden family, for the President, for his son. There were many members, Erica, of the Biden family who were in the courtroom. But, there were also some that didn't make it on time. I was standing in the hallway after the verdict was read when First Lady Joe Biden came in. The First Lady did not make it into the courtroom to support her son when that verdict was read. Also, we saw Valerie Biden, the sister of President Joe Biden. She got into the courtroom but just a few minutes after.

The defendant himself, Hunter Biden, on his way out of the courtroom, gave some hugs and kisses to the loved ones that were there to support him. I saw him flash a very brief smile when he turned to his lawyers and paralegals to give them some hugs. Perhaps he was in a state of shock with the guilty verdicts being read.

[11:35:00]

And just the folks around him, Erica, looked kind of stunned. HILL: Yeah.

VOICE OF COHEN: Some of them were looking down as they exited the room. Clearly, it's the lowest possible point for this family as they went through such an excruciating week on trial, devastating details of his drug abuse. And now, he walks out of this courthouse as a convicted felon. Erica.

HILL: Absolutely, and interesting that smile at one point to his lawyers. We were just showing some video and here it is again, actually of him, actually, I believe, this is, yeah, moments ago, walking out of court, getting into the vehicle there. We see the First Lady as well. There has been such, as you noted, such a heavy Biden family presence in that courtroom from day one. There was always talk about what that could or could not mean for a jury, as they see a defendant's support system there around them. Marshall, so, no sentencing perhaps for the next several months. But, I would imagine that his legal team, meaning Hunter Biden's legal team, likely already starting their work on some type of an appeal.

VOICE OF COHEN: I mean, they have their hands full, Erica. Surely, they will appeal. They have mounted many challenges to this case before the trial and there will be plenty to come after the trial. They don't even think that these charges are constitutional. There are some real questions about the constitutionality of these laws that restrict gun ownership that prevents drug users from owning a gun, after the Supreme Court, the conservative majority on the Supreme Court, ruled a couple of years ago in a massive gun case. We have seen some gun restrictions being struck down. And Hunter's team was hoping that this law would also fall. The judge did not agree with him on that, that they will certainly pursue it on appeal.

And of course, Erica, we can't have this conversation without also mentioning the fact that he has a second trial pending later this year. This was just one half of his legal problems. He is now convicted in the gun case. But, he has been indicted in a separate tax case, nine charges, three of them felonies. That is scheduled to go on trial in Los Angeles in September. So, there is a lot for him and his lawyers to deal with. They will absorb this punch today. But, they have so much ahead of them, many more problems ahead for the President's son. This is not the end.

HILL: Yeah. No. Definitely not the end. One quick question, and I apologize in advance for putting you on the spot here, my friend. But, in terms of those -- that separate tax case, right, in Los Angeles in September, as you noted, that looming case, does that in any way or could it in any way impact when the sentencing hearing is scheduled?

VOICE OF COHEN: It could. Obviously, judges will look on the calendar and ask the attorneys involved, because it's the same prosecutors and the same defense attorneys, what their calendars look like, and if they can make it to a hearing. I assume that, look, sentencing is just one day. So, they would only have to come out here to Delaware for one day. But, what that means is that he'll find out his fate three months from now, this is June, July, August. So, if they put this sentencing in August or September, he may be learning his sentence in the gun case right around the time that he starts going on trial and the tax case. So, there is a lot going on here.

HILL: That it is. It is luck going on for that Biden legal team, and Marshall Cohen, it's going to keep you very busy, my friend, as well. Really appreciate it. So good to have you up with us, and appreciate all the reporting. I will let you get back to work. But, thank you again.

I do want to bring in now CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson, who joins me here in New York. Joey, you're a defense attorney. You're also a former federal prosecutor. When you look at this, as a defense attorney, where are you heading from this moment?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, & CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: So, there is a lot that has to happen. Erica, good to be with you. The first thing obviously is that we know that there are appealable issues. I think appeals will be filed on several grounds relating to the occurrences of this trial. And so, the first thing obviously you look for is an appeal and that undoes in the event that you're successful any type conviction. The other thing you have to do is keep your eye on the realities of the issue at hand, and those realities are the reality of sentencing.

So, you have what's called pretrial services at the federal level. They are a probationary component. That probationary component now will do a deep dive into Hunter Biden's life. They'll do a significant workup on his prior histories, physical, mental condition, any additional addictions, financial history, etc. They prepare this major report that then is given with a recommendation. While probation is preparing a report for recommendation with respect to sentencing, you, as defense counsel, are preparing a document to submit to the court a sentencing memorandum.

[11:40:00]

That document includes, of course, people who know you, people who can vouch you, people who can weigh in on what they believe the judge should do, which would be an appropriate sentence. And then, you have prosecutors who, of course, they weigh in with regard to what they believe should be the sentence. And then, you have an actual appearance in front of the court. You have oral arguments on those issues. A judge pronounces sentence.

Generally, what also happens, timing here is very critical. Why do I say that? Because it takes a while, a couple of months for probation to work up with their workup. The judge will set specific timelines. And then, of course, timelines for when defense's memorandum is due, timelines when prosecution's memorandum is due.

So, let's just say for example, he is sentenced in September, OK, because it takes all that time to get it done, then generally speaking, if there is a jail sentence, you can, right, come back on another date. Usually, they don't put you in right away. There'll be a surrender date. What would that be? Would it be October? Would it be November?

Last point, Erica, we have to look at this case, right, in conjunction with his other case, Hunter Biden's tax case in California, where timing, again, is critical, because there'll be a jury trial in September. If there should be a conviction, would that then be in October? If there isn't a similar thing, probation, how long would that take? How long would it take for any sentencing? If he is convicted, will Joe Biden still be in the White House? He has ruled out a pardon. Could there be a commutation with respect to a sentence? That means if he is sentenced to eliminate the sentence or shorten the sentence, that wasn't ruled out.

And so, timing, if you're on his defense team, is very critical with regard to this case, Erica, in addition to the September case that has not yet played out yet because it's going to be important to know who is in the White House, who exercises authority in the White House, and who could issue pardons and commutations in the White House. Obviously, Mr. Trump might have some different opinions as to commutations or pardons, than might his father Joe Biden.

HILL: Right. Right. Who -- although as you've noted, Joey, as you just said, has been asked multiple times whether he would pardon him. He has said, no. I'm just curious, in these next few months, as you lay out just how busy Hunter Biden and his legal team will be, what's the correct communications strategy in the coming weeks and months? Do you say nothing? How much do you address?

JACKSON: So, I think there is a difference, Erica, in terms of the legal strategy and the public relations strategy. And generally, those are at odds, quite frankly, lawyers don't like to talk about anything as it relates to the case and any sentencing or anything else, or have our client talk to anybody or say anything or do anything in public. But, the realities are, is that we're in the presidential election, and this is the President's son.

So, I think while his lawyers may be focused on the case, focused on the issues relating to the case, focused on the appeal, focused on sentencing, focused on preparation in terms of the California case, I think there is a public relations narrative, and that narrative will probably be far different. It'll be the issue of addiction, the issue of whether this case was about a shaming of addiction, whether or not he is overcoming his addiction, whether or not they embrace the fact that he is had some dark moments, but he is trying to move on.

In terms of the tax case, he has paid his taxes. He has made the government hole, should we be going through that, should it be prosecuted at all. Right? Is this another issue of the weaponization of the Justice Department? Do they stay away from that? It seems to me that the messaging around that has been, right, that we respect the justice system. We've heard from his father. We've talked about that just now, Erica, right, where you have Joe Biden saying, hey, I respect the verdict. I'm not issuing any pardons. Will then his son, Hunter Biden, say I respect the verdict? I was in a dark place. And it's going to be what it's going to be. That narrative, we'll wait to see.

So, far different legal strategy (inaudible) a public relations strategy and --

HILL: Yeah.

JACKSON: -- it's not lost on any of us that we're in an election right now.

HILL: Yeah. Far different strategies, but the two are inextricably linked, as we know. Joey, we appreciate it, as always, my friend. Thank you.

And that sets us up very well for our next discussion. Joining me now is CNN political commentator Geoff Duncan, who is, of course, the former Lieutenant Governor for the state of Georgia, and Meghan Hays, former Special Assistant to President Biden. Good to have both of you with us.

Meghan, I want to start with you. Just your reaction to this verdict, to this finding Hunter Biden guilty on all three charges here.

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: Yeah. I mean, I don't think anyone is surprised that this is the outcome here. I do think that the family is going to be supportive. I mean, the President has already said what he feels is going to go on. He is not going to pardon him. I just think that this is not a surprising verdict. I just -- I think that most of America probably doesn't actually care what Hunter Biden did in 2018, when he was going through a rough time. So, I just think that this isn't going to actually impact the election, so to speak, but -- I mean, it is unfortunate for Hunter and the family.

HILL: So, in terms of impacting the election, important to note too, this is Hunter Biden. Of course, this is the President's son. This is not President Biden, who was on trial here, but it can be tough to separate the two. Meghan, give me a sense, how do you think the Biden camp has been preparing for guilty charge?

HAYS: Yeah. I mean, I think that they would be preparing for it because they are understanding that they work for the President and he is running for election.

[11:45:00]

So, running for reelection. So, I just am not sure that they are spending much time preparing. I think that everyone is being supportive of the family because that's the role here, right? Like, the President and the First Lady need to be supporting their son. And this is a tough time for the family in general. But again, I just don't think that Americans are going to care much about what Hunter Biden did in 2018 when he was going through a tough time.

SOLOMON: Geoff, it is definitely going to come up on the campaign trail. We know that Hunter Biden for a long time has come up on the campaign trail, brought up often by Republicans. How do you see this playing out, especially amid the allegations from former President Trump, who was also recently convicted, that there is a two-tiered system of justice in this country?

GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, much like the Trump case, today was a very clear message that the jury heard enough, quickly to convict him of these three felonies, and much like the Trump case too, there was little doubt that the jury was confused. Look, as far as the legalities go, I don't know how it pulls. But, I do think the (inaudible) grisly details of these cases are to kind of affect the campaign trail. Right? I mean, Donald Trump's life in the gutter and President Biden's family and having some of the chaos and confusion behind the scenes, I think is what could potentially influence.

But, I think interesting takeaway here, it's been the family's reactions or the reactions inside the families to these specific cases. I think the Trump family and Donald Trump himself just has literally torn the face off this judge and the jury and the process and the DA. I think the Biden family has embraced the fact that there is a process playing out here and that there was no sort of whisper or rumor that he was going to be pardoned. I do think there is some civility to that reaction. So, at the end of the day, I think this is going to move past this phase and we'll get back to the campaigning on the other chaos and confusion that's been created.

HILL: The other chaos and confusion thing, which chaos and confusion you're referring to, just out of curiosity?

DUNCAN: Yes. The list is long. I mean, we talk about immigration. We talk about inflation. We talk about foreign policy. There is a lot of chaos. And who would have thought -- I mean, Americans as a whole have become quasi-legal experts now based on all of the coverage in these cases, and simply break this down. If Donald Trump wasn't seeking the President again, or former President and Hunter Biden wasn't Joe Biden son, these would just be an addict going to trial for a gun case and a slimy business guy getting caught cheating on his wife.

HILL: Interesting to note, just over a week ago, of course, it was Senator Lindsey Graham, who said he didn't really see any good coming from these charges. And in his estimation, the average American wouldn't have been charged with, in his words, the, quote, "gun thing", which is fascinating.

Meghan, as we move forward into the campaign, even putting this moment behind us, there is a very real discussion of the justice system that is going to continue to play out as we move into November. Can that discussion be had without mentioning Hunter Biden?

HAYS: I mean, it should. The President is not on trial. The President wasn't facing any charges. I don't think that the President should be held responsible for something that his son did while he was going through a tough time and being an addict. But, I do think you're right, that the justice system is going to be forefront. The former President keeps bringing it up. He keeps saying that everyone is out to get him. But, I just think that President Biden needs to continue to stick to that he is the President who believes in the rule of law and he supports the justice system, regardless of who -- what party is in charge. And I think that contrast couldn't be more stark in how they're handling these issues.

HILL: Meghan Hays, Geoff Duncan, really great to have you both with us this hour. Thank you.

I also want to bring in now my colleague, CNN Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider, following the developments here sort of fast and furiously. So, Jessica, for folks who are just joining us, bring us up to speed here over what has been a fairly eventful last hour or so, a little bit less than that. Three guilty charges for the President's son. Where did they come from? Where do we go now?

SCHNEIDER: Yeah. Three guilty verdicts, and this all happened really very quickly, Erica. We heard from Marshall, who is outside the court, that the First Lady Jill Biden didn't even have a chance to get into the courtroom before this verdict was read. It was read within minutes of the jury announcing that they had a verdict. They were assembled in the courtroom. And then, the three guilty verdicts were announced by this jury of those three counts, two of those counts relating to the fact that Hunter Biden wrongly filled out forms when he was purchasing a gun, attesting to the fact that he wasn't using drugs at the time.

This jury concluding that that was in violation of the law. They concluded that Hunter Biden was in fact using drugs around the time that he bought this gun, in violation of the law. And then, the third charge stems from the violation of actually owning a firearm at the same time you were using or addicted to drugs.

[11:50:00]

So, this jury only deliberating for about three hours in what was a relatively quick trial anyway, the actual trial itself only lasting about five days. We had closing arguments yesterday. The jury went into deliberations at 3:30 yesterday afternoon, did one hour of deliberations, and then came back this morning for two more hours of deliberations. It was a relatively quick decision likely because they really only had to decide on the timeline here and whose version of the timeline was right. The prosecution said and they argued to the jury that they only had to prove that Hunter Biden was using drugs around the time of his gun purchase. That gun purchase was in October 2018. They said they didn't -- the prosecution argued they didn't have to prove that he was using drugs maybe on the exact day that he purchased this gun and filled out the forms.

The defense, on the other hand, they argued that, sorry, I'm getting a little feedback in my ear, the defense saying here that the prosecution was really fudging the numbers, fudging the timeline, and they pointed to the fact that there were several witnesses in this case, about 13 witnesses called, and the defense had said, look, none of them can point to the fact that Hunter Biden was using drugs anywhere in that October 2018 timeline.

But, of course, in the end, this 12-member jury, six men, six women, all assembled from the state of Delaware. They decided to believe the prosecution and to find Hunter Biden guilty on those three felony counts. Now, I will note, Erica, the President, Joe Biden, he was previously asked, would he consider pardoning his son if he were to be found guilty? The President has said that he will not pardon Hunter Biden. And of course, Erica, this isn't the end of this saga. Hunter Biden is

expected to be sentenced for this case sometime in the next 120 days, so about the next four months. But, at the same time, he is also looking at a federal trial on tax fraud charges scheduled to begin in September in California. So, this won't be the end of Hunter Biden's legal battle. And of course, it all happening at the same time the election is ramping up, the campaign is ramping up, and we're getting closer to that November 2024 election date. Erica.

HILL: Yeah. We certainly are. Jessica, appreciate it. Thank you.

Also with me, historian Julian Zelizer, who is joining me now -- presidential historian. Julian, as we look at this moment, as Jessica points out, we are moving swiftly toward the election. The reality is Joe Biden was not on trial here. But, we are likely to hear about this for some time, as we're also going to hear about the verdict for the former President, who is also now a convicted felon. How do you see that playing out, especially in terms of the American appetite for it?

JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, on the one hand, there is no equivalence here. We're talking about a former President who is facing his sentencing and other charges. And then, we're talking about the President's son and problems that he faced without any evidence that the father was involved in anything. So, they are two separate issues.

But, politically, they will matter. I mean, I think this will muddy the water. I am sure that the former President will use this and talk about it to make allegations about the President's corruption, and it will become part of a campaign strategy to alleviate some of the negative effects of Trump's conviction in the New York court.

HILL: How much of the campaign strategy did you imagine on the Biden side, will be about talking of the importance of an independent justice system?

ZELIZER: Well, I think that will be the way that Biden talks about Trump, meaning Trump attacks the legal system. He attacks the legitimacy of outcomes. And Biden is are reluctant to go too hard against the former President for fear of looking too political, but he can keep talking about the importance of an independent judiciary. And thus far, he doesn't want to interfere with his own son's case, which is the way he wants to model how leaders should behave. So, I think that will be the way that kind of Biden gets at this issue.

HILL: Julian, I really appreciate you joining us this hour. Thank you.

And thanks to all of you for being with us. I'm Erica Hill in New York. Again, if you are just joining us, the news just a short time ago, Hunter Biden found guilty on all three counts in that federal gun trial. He was, of course, on trial in Wilmington, Delaware. Sentencing -- no sentencing date was given. It could happen within the next three months, we're told by my colleagues on the ground. So, we'll keep an eye on that as well.

[11:55:00] Also, of course, the possibility and the expect that Hunter Biden and his legal team will, of course, appeal this finding here. But, again, Hunter Biden found guilty today, convicted on all three federal gun charges.

Be sure to stay with CNN. "One World" is up next with more on this breaking news, as well as the headlines from around the globe.

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