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Now, Jury Deliberating in Hunter Biden's Federal Gun Trial; Israel Appears Poised to Formally Agree to Biden's Ceasefire Plan. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired June 11, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

Right now in Delaware, Hunter Biden's fate is in the hands of a jury. The president's son arrived in court this morning as jurors resumed deliberations in his federal gun trial. And just about a half hour later, he left the courthouse in Wilmington. Hunter Biden is accused of lying about his illegal drug use when he bought a handgun back in 2018. If convicted of all three charges, he could face 25 years in prison.

CNN's Evan Perez joins us from outside the courthouse in Delaware. Evan, was it expected that Hunter Biden would only make a short visit there as the jury deliberates? What's the latest?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: No, Jim. I think we didn't anticipate that he would be able to leave during the time that the jury is deliberating. Typically, defendants have to sit here, like the rest of us, as we wait for the jury to complete its work. But, look, I'm not every defendant has a secret service detail on a whole security operation in order to get him and out of -- inside and outside of the courtroom.

And, you know, we know that the Biden family has a little base of operations at a hotel nearby. We expect that once they know there's a jury, of course, Hunter Biden will come back. Perhaps the first lady will also be here. She's been here supporting him throughout this entire trial. And, look, the jury has now been inside for just -- they've been deliberating for just over two hours. They did a little bit yesterday and then they've been back today.

And the last thing they heard was obviously the closings from both sides. Prosecutors had some really tough words to push back on the prosecution, which is really -- doesn't have a lot to work with, right? There's overwhelming evidence that Hunter Biden bought this firearm in October of 2018. We know from all the text messages, from videos, from photos that they've shown in court and from his own words, in his own, in his own memoir, that he was using, crack cocaine around the time of this incident. So, what Abbe Lowell, his defense attorney, focused on was that the prosecution didn't have direct evidence that Hunter Biden was using drugs in October of 2018, and that he said to the jurors, was reason for there to be reasonable doubt that he knew he was lying on that form when he filled it out to get the background check and buy that firearm.

In response to that, we heard from Derek Hines, one of the prosecutors, who said, look, there's no doubt that anyone who puts a crack pipe to their mouth every 15 minutes knows he's an addict. And so he pushed back on some of the accusations from the defense. And that's sort of the last thing that the jurors heard before they retired to the jury room to start the deliberations, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Evan Perez, thank you very much. Keep us posted. We appreciate it.

Let's continue this discussion. Joining me now, CNN Political Commentator, Republican Strategist Shermichael Singleton and CNN Legal Commentator and a former attorney for Donald Trump, Tim Parlatore, and CNN Special Correspondent Jamie Gangel.

Tim, let me start with you first. I mean, obviously we can't predict what the jury is going to do here. But what do you think? Do you think the prosecution has made the case or might there be a chance here that Hunter Biden might be acquitted?

TIM PARLATORE, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: So, I think that they did a fair job up until the rebuttal case. You know, the rebuttal case to me was really the prosecution's greatest evidence of all. And I read through the jury instructions specifically on the issue of addiction and use. And they do have to show that it's during the time period that he owned the gun.

And a lot of what they had was before it was after. And they didn't really target in on the specific time period until the rebuttal case, which, you know, you would have hoped they would have done in their case in chief. But once you got those text messages from the day of the purchase, I think that that really strengthened the prosecutor's case.

ACOSTA: And, Shermichael, I mean, just going off of what Evan Perez was highlighting from the closing arguments, I mean, it sounds as though the prosecution is really hammering Hunter Biden over his abusing drugs. Might that backfire? Because, I mean, a lot of folks, you know, people have family members, friends who've battled addiction.

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It's something that we all, you know, can relate to, somebody that we know in our life. Could that backfire? Because the jury might -- one of the jurors might say, hey, wait a minute, this guy's just like me.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, they may be sympathetic. Someone may have a family member who's also dealing with addiction. Millions of American families are. I will say, to be transparent, I own a firearms company.

I want to be transparent for our audience, so this is an arena I spend a lot of time in. And the Bruen vs. New York case really does change the dynamic, I would argue, Tim, in favor of Hunter Biden. Even if he's found guilty, I would argue he would be successful on appeal because the Fifth Circuit last year stated that you cannot ban someone who may use an illegal substance from being able to possess a firearm. I think that certainly benefits the Second Amendment, absolutely.

So, what's fascinating about this dichotomy, Jim, is that conservatives who may despise President Biden may look to Hunter Biden who may bring this all the way up to the Supreme Court to have further changes to the Second Amendment that a lot of two-way advocates have been advocating for, for two or three decades now.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Jamie, thanks for being with us as well. I wonder what the impact will be on the jury seeing the Biden family throughout all of this, the first lady being there. What's your sense of that?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, jurors are human beings. We talked about this a lot in, in the Trump trial. And there is no question that those jurors know who Jill Biden is, that it's the first lady, having a family there. I'm guessing the lawyers here would say that having family members is always good in a courtroom for a defendant.

PARLATORE: (INAUDIBLE). Generally, yes.

ACOSTA: This is the first lady. I mean --

GANGEL: Correct.

ACOSTA: -- who has basically been Hunter Biden's mom.

GANGEL: Correct. I think it has an impact. The jury was told to ignore. You know, the prosecution said, don't pay attention to that. Maybe that makes you pay attention to it a little bit more. I don't know.

But at the end of the day, I think what's very important is what Shermichael was saying about Americans being aware of people with addiction. And I believe that from the voir dire, we know that some of these jurors have family members. I think that what will happen here is, look, did he have an addiction problem? Absolutely. Do we hear it in his own words when they play the audio recording of his book? Absolutely. Is there this vague period of time when he buys the gun that maybe casts a little doubt on it? Yes.

The question, and I don't know the answer is, what is reasonable doubt? What is beyond a reasonable doubt in a case like this?

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Tim, I mean, to that point, one of the questions that I have is, I mean, might the jury just essentially say, okay, you know, Hunter Biden, you get a pass on this one? You know, I just wonder, are they going to say, okay, there's enough here to convict? What do you think? PARLATORE: I think they could. I mean, the jury instructions are very lengthy, but I really focused in on, you know, the judge's definition of use and addict. And the definition that she has of addict is, quite frankly, in my opinion, terrible because it says, you know, an addict is somebody whose addiction is such that they can't control their impulses with respect to the addiction. And so --

ACOSTA: And this is a crime that isn't prosecuted. Elie Honig was on yesterday. I'm sure he said this in other programs. This isn't prosecuted that much. Might the jury be aware of that?

PARLATORE: And it's very rare as a standalone. You know, if you have a crime of violence and then you add on to it, you know, how did they get the gun, you know, that's something that they do --

ACOSTA: It can be an add-on?

PARLATORE: Right. But as a standalone, you know, to Shermichael's point, this is such an interesting case because it takes the parties and kind of flip flops them because, you know, think about every time there's a mass shooting event and, you know, one side is saying, we need stronger gun laws, the other side is saying, why don't we enforce the gun laws we have? If we enforce the gun laws we have, this person never would have bought it. And the first person DOJ decides to actually try and enforce that with is Hunter Biden.

ACOSTA: Yes, all right.

PARLATORE: Yes, it's a very weird circumstance.

SINGLETON: And, Jim, really quickly, when you go to purchase a firearm, when you complete form 4473, which is the document for the first two charges, it's ran through the NICS system. The NICS system is a national database that will tell an FFL if you've committed a crime. If this were not Hunter Biden, if it were not for the document or the laptop, there would be no clue if he would have utilized drugs or not. So, he would have been able to lawfully hold that gun without anyone knowing.

So, this is a bogus case to me. I have my differences with his father, but in terms of being a firearms owner and someone who owns a firearms company, you don't want individuals who may have an addiction problem to not be able to defend themselves, particularly when it's the son of a president who knows how many threats he's getting on a daily basis.

ACOSTA: And, Jamie, and also, I mean, just a go to Tim's point about everything being flipped on its head.

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I mean, we've had all these discussions about Trump's complaints about a two-tier justice system and it's been weaponized against him and so on. The Biden family has been put through the ringer on this case, for sure.

GANGEL: Let's talk about what has not happened in this case. First of all, Hunter Biden is not a candidate for president. So, that's number one. But we have not heard Hunter Biden come out and have a press conference every day and say the judge is corrupt, the system is rigged, that this is a witch hunt. I mean, the Biden family and his father is president of the United States, this is according to Donald Trump, his Justice Department. This is the opposite. They are very painfully, you know, and I'm sure they all wish this wasn't happening, but there is nothing attacking the rule of law and the Justice Department.

ACOSTA: All right, very good. Shermichael, Tim, Jamie, thank you very much. I appreciate the conversation this morning. Thank you very much.

Still come this hour, private conversations caught on tape.

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MARTHA ALITO, WIFE OF JUSTICE SAMUEL ALITO: I want a sacred part of Jesus flag, because I have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month.

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ACOSTA: Justice Samuel Alito's wife talking about a new flag and secret recordings just made public. We'll talk about that just a little bit.

And we're following breaking developments from Israel where Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu appears poised to sign up on President Biden's ceasefire plan. We'll talk about that in just a few moments. Back in a moment.

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ACOSTA: Breaking news now, Israel appears poised to formally agree to President Biden's three-stage ceasefire plan for Gaza, while at the same time maintaining the freedom to keep fighting. That's according to a statement just released.

Let's bring in CNN National Security Correspondent Kylie Atwood live in Amman, Jordan, where Secretary of State Tony Blinken continues his diplomatic trip. Kylie, what can you tell us?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, listen, this statement is incredibly noteworthy because it is the prime minister's office coming out in this paper statement saying effectively that he is on board for the proposal that President Biden laid out ten days ago, this three-part plan to try and bring to close this war.

Now, notably, there are some parts of this statement that don't exactly reflect the plan that President Biden laid out, but the fact that the prime minister's office is coming out with this statement and saying this now is noteworthy. It comes just after the secretary of state met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu just last night in Israel. And the secretary told us, traveling with him, we're now in Jordan, but we were in Israel this morning, he said that the prime minister, very clearly to him, said that he would be on board for this proposal if Hamas agrees to it, indicating that there is an ironclad commitment on behalf of Israel to push forward a ceasefire, a hostage release deal and then, of course, move towards what could potentially be a more permanent, lasting ceasefire. But the questions there over permanent ceasefire or a specific amount of time for a ceasefire still remain.

But we should also note, Jim, that this comes as the secretary of state has been pushing all parties in the region to try and continue putting pressure on Hamas to accept the deal on the table that the Israelis put forth for them. And he also came out this morning speaking with reporters partially in response to The Wall Street Journal's new reporting today on messages that the political -- excuse me, the military leader of Hamas, who is believed to be somewhere hiding in the tunnels underneath Gaza, has been sending to the political folks of Hamas in Doha. And these are incredibly detailed messages indicating that Sinwar, Yahya Sinwar, who's that military leader, believes that the Hamas has an edge up on Israel right now.

And what the secretary of state says is it's very clear to the United States that when it comes to decision-making on behalf of Hamas, it is Sinwar who's going to be making those decisions. Listen to what he said to reporters earlier today.

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ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: It is a hopeful sign, just as statement that they issued after the president made his proposal ten days ago. It was hopeful, but it's not dispositive. What is dispositive, at least what's so far been dispositive, one way or another, is the word coming from, from Gaza and from the Hamas leadership in Gaza. That's what counts and that's what we don't have yet.

I don't think anyone other than the Hamas leadership in Gaza actually are the ones who can make decisions.

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ATWOOD: Now, in one of these alleged messages that's being reported by The Wall Street Journal, Sinwar says that the deaths of the Palestinians are, quote, necessary sacrifices, just giving you an indication, Jim, of the person that the United States and, of course, the Israelis are dealing with in these incredibly tough and ongoing negotiations.

ACOSTA: All right, a very important development. Kylie Atwood in Amman, Jordan, for us, Kylie, thank you very much.

Let's bring in CNN Global Affairs Analyst Kim Dozier and CNN Military Analyst Major General James Spider Marks.

Kim, let me go to you first. You're in the studio with me. Just to react to what Kylie was just saying a few moments ago, Israel appearing to be poised to formally agree to Biden's ceasefire plan.

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I mean, that still sounds a little squishy, but it sounds as though, from what the secretary of state was saying a few moments ago, they're waiting on Hamas.

KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It's putting the pressure on Hamas. It's also putting the pressure on the various countries in communication with Hamas to get to a yes. We've had some indications from the terrorist group through public statements, but not a formal endorsement, but we could be on the precipice of seeing another exchange of hostages. Now, the problem is it's a phased deal and it can break down along the way, but it could be in great news for the hostage families that they could get some of their loved ones back.

ACOSTA: And, General, your sense of this. This is fascinating that the Israeli government would say this. What do you make of all this?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES SPIDER MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think, as Kim indicated, this is great news, if there could be some exchange of some of the hostages and start making progress in that regard. The challenge truly is if it is a phased withdrawal, and there is a period, an interregnum between here's the start and here's the next phase, and what are the conditions that must be met, the IDF is going to continue to conduct operations during that period, even if there is an initial return of some of those hostages.

Look, in their mind, the job is not done. There is still infrastructure that needs to be reduced. There are still key personnel that need to be killed or captured. And we saw the raid that took place just three or four days ago. I mean, this was an incredibly precise operation, but it turned into a massive gunfight, which means Hamas has immense capacity not only to engage but also to sacrifice greatly.

So, you could see where the IDF might say, or Israel might say, yes, we're good with this ceasefire, but there's a period where we want to be able to conduct operations and we will conduct operations until certain conditions are met. And if there is a period of time, then within that period of time, the IDF will be very busy marching through a target list before they'll depart.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, Kim, there's a lot of took place after this raid to free the hostages over the weekend that perhaps this might complicate matters in terms of getting to some kind of ceasefire agreement. But it sounds as though on the Israeli side they may be ready to go. What do you think?

DOZIER: Well, from the Israeli side, they've always thought that Hamas is using the hostages to just keep this conflict going. And at any point, the Hamas could have released them and ended a lot of the fighting, but it wants to use them, it seems, as a bargaining chip for political survival, keeping them until Israel agrees to pull out forces and end the fighting so that at least some senior members of Hamas live to fight another day. ACOSTA: Yes. And, General, I mean, the leader Hamas has reportedly boasted that the militant group, quote, has the Israelis right where they want them. What do you make of that kind of a comment? I mean, it sounds as though they're on their heels a little bit, a lot, maybe.

MARKS: Well, they are on heels. Yes, I don't want to be flipping here, but it sounds a lot like Baghdad Bob, right, we've got them exactly where we want them back in 2003, and that was not at all. But the issue truly is I could see where Israel raises a hand and says, yes, we'll sign up for the ceasefire, which puts them in a very positive light. It's the ball back in Hamas' court. And then as Secretary Blinken indicated, who speaks for Hamas? Israel said, we're in, we'll try to make this work. And Hamas doesn't have a single voice with authority to acknowledge that they'll move forward with whatever the agreement looks like, or at least to try to shape it.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Kim, I mean, there's been a lot of discussion about this relationship between President Biden and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that it's been icy and frosty at times. But it sounds as though, based on this trip that the secretary of state is in the middle of right now, that it may pay some dividends here, and not only work to the Israeli's benefit, obviously, but perhaps domestically, politically for the president.

DOZIER: Well, the White House this week has signaled to Netanyahu that his time is running out by voting together with the U.N. Security Council to call for a ceasefire, something that the U.S. has abstained from or rejected before. They're saying there is a limit to our patience, our military supplies, et cetera. And Netanyahu has responded by saying yes to ceasefire, but there are several caveats, according to leaked versions of the ceasefire, within the phases, where somewhere midway through Israel can now say, okay, and now here are our terms.

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And the terms could include, we don't know yet, Hamas has to dismantle itself. That's why I think you could see this stop, start again.

ACOSTA: Yes, we're not quite there yet until we know all the details.

DOZIER: Because Netanyahu knows that if he agrees to a permanent ceasefire, members of his narrow coalition government have said they'll pull out. So, he seems to be saying yes to what we know of publicly while possibly, privately telling these coalition members, don't worry, it doesn't mean that all the fighting stops.

ACOSTA: All right Kim, thank you very much. Major General Spider Marks, always great to talk to you as well, thank you.

Coming up, secret recordings of two Supreme Court justices now released to the public. The politically sensitive conversations and the potential fallout, that's next.

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