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CNN International: Hunter Biden Found Guilty On All Counts In Gun Case; WSJ: Hamas Leader Says His Group Has The Upper Hand In War; Biden Speaks At Gun Safety Event After Son's Gun Convictions; Alito Discusses Political Polarization In Secret Recording By Activist. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired June 11, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:41]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It's 8:00 p.m. in London, 10:00 p.m. in Gaza, 3:00 p.m. in Wilmington, Delaware, and also here in Washington.

I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.

And let's get right to the news. We begin with another major criminal verdict colliding with the race for the White House. President Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, has been convicted by a jury in Delaware on federal gun charges, a first for any sitting president.

The result of charges brought by Biden's own Justice Department Hunter was found guilty on all three counts of illegally purchasing and possessing a gun in 2018 while abusing drugs. That verdict after the week long trial exposed new details on the dark toll of addiction on Hunter and the first family.

President Biden reaffirmed his love and pride in his son and urged respect for the legal system in a statement just after the verdict. He is now heading to Wilmington to see Hunter.

We begin on the legal developments with CNN's Marshall Cohen outside the courtroom now. He was inside it before.

And, Marshall, I understand we now have a statement from Hunter Biden himself.

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Jim, that's right. It has been a very challenging and painful week for the entire Biden family and obviously, things sunk to a new load today with those three guilty verdicts.

I was in the courtroom when those verdicts were read out loud, not much of a reaction from Hunter Biden after the court adjourned. He turned around to hug the members of his legal team and then sort of went one by one in the gallery to embrace his family members and friends who have been with him pretty much from the very first day, giving each of them a hug, some of them a kiss, pats on the back as they filed out of the room, some of them looked stunned. Jim, others had their hands crossed over their arms upset.

And once everybody got out of the building, Hunter did issue a statement. I'll read for you a quote from that. Hunter Biden, the newly convicted felon, said the following, quote, I am more grateful today for the love and support I experienced this last week from Melissa, my family, my friends, and my community than I am disappointed by the outcome.

He went on to say that recovery is possible by the grace of God. And I am blessed to experience that gift one day at a time, bringing it back to what this pace was all about. Addiction for many years, he was a ramp into abuser of crack cocaine. He wrote about it in his book.

He sat in court while some of his exes testified about how drugs ruin their relationships, it was difficult to sit through, but I should point out, Jim, that Hunter Biden has said that he has been drug-free and sober for five years now since 2019.

Now, on the other side of this, Jim, you have the prosecutors special counsel, David Weiss, who has been investigating the president's son for almost five years now. This obviously was a vindication of their efforts, a massive victory for them, earning convictions on all three counts.

Special counsel, they don't speak very often. He has been in court all week, but you never talks, but he did today.

I want to play for you a clip of what special counsel David Weiss said after the verdict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID WEISS, SPECIAL COUNSEL & U.S. ATTORNEY FOR DISTRICT OF DELAWARE: While there has been much testimony about the defendants abuse of drugs and alcohol, ultimately, this case was not just about addiction, a disease that haunts families across the United States, including Hunter Biden's family.

No one in this country is above the law. Everyone must be accountable for their actions, even this defendant. However, Hunter Biden should be no more accountable than any other citizen convicted of this same conduct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So, Jim, I want to be clear: this is only half time for Hunter Biden. The gun case is now behind him, but he faces another tax case that this same group of prosecutors has filed out in California.

[15:05:03]

That trial is scheduled to begin in September.

So this fall is going to be very challenging for him and his entire family because not only does he have the sentencing in this case where he will find out his face and whether or not he's going to prison, but he will also stand trial on a host of additional federal tax charges to which he has pleaded not guilty -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Sentencing typically takes place 120, days four months following the verdict at Texas, takes us into October. Do we -- do we have a sense of the range of potential and most likely outcomes here in terms of punishment here, including the possibility of jail time?

COHEN: So, if you look at the statutes, he was convicted of three distinct crimes. And every crime has a maximum potential penalty. So if you add together the maximum possible sentences, that would tell you that he faces a potential of 25 years in federal prison and a fine of up to $750,000.

However, that is almost certainly not going to happen. He is a first- time offender with no criminal record. He is not accused of using this gun in any sort of violent fashion. And it could be argued that he maybe has already suffered so much because so much of this case was about his inability to get out of the grips of addiction.

So, the judge is going to weigh all of those factors as she fashions a sentence. It is likely here, Jim, it's possible here that this ends up with a probation sentence, no prison time for the president's son. We shall see.

SCIUTTO: Marshall Cohen, outside of the courthouse, thanks so much.

So, joining me now for legal analysis, former Florida judge and professor at Thomas M. Cooley Law School, Jeff Swartz, and criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor Joey Jackson.

Good to have you both on.

Jeff, if I could begin with you quoting from the special counsel Weiss there. He said Hunter Biden should be no more accountable than any other citizen convicted of the same crime here.

In your view, was this a just prosecution and set aside the verdict for a moment, but how likely would it be that any other citizen would end up in a courtroom for charge with similar crimes?

JEFF SWARTZ, FORMER FLORIDA JUDGE: Most other citizens, like a Hunter Biden, who have no prior contact with the law, all of those things that he has going for him would have been placed in a pretrial deferral program. That is that if he completed certain programs, the charges would be dismissed. That was the original plea bargain.

The problem with the plea bargain was that Abbe Lowell interpreted as being this is all there is, everything else that you've got on him, he's not going to be charged with. Mr. Weiser, after a lot of pressure was placed on them and how lenient is plea as said, no, no, no, no. This is only about this case.

At that point, because of the argument between them, the judge said, wait a minute, you guys don't have a real plea agreement here because you're not agreeing on the scope of this agreement. Therefore, I am not going to accept it and gets stuck in a question of interpreting it, so I guess we're going to go to trial. And that was kind of what was left for Hunter to do. Most people who

go to trial, well, there is a thing called the trial tax. And even if after you accept responsibility, if you've done or said things which kind of belie the idea that you're admitting to what you did an accepting responsibility get time, I don't think that Hunter is in that particular situation because he has written a book accepting everything that has happened.

So the worst I see is a year and a day, which means he'll do eight months in a prison farm, or he may end up on probation. That's a possibility, knowing think that there are more serious charges involving the tax issues coming up in the fall.

SCIUTTO: Joey Jackson, we learned from one of the jurors involved who spoke to CNN that initially following closing arguments as they began deliberations, they voted and they were split 6-6 on convict versus acquit. That changed last night into this morning, it was 11-1, then eventually they came around unanimous verdict here.

Is that a typical or not unusual movement for a jury over time? And just bigger picture, are you surprised by the outcome?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So first things first, Jim, I think that certainly that's consistent with oftentimes what jurors do. How do you know? Because when you try these cases, you speak to juries and obviously every jury is different. And so not to pigeonhole this jury with respect to every other, but jurists have their opinions and it could be any number of split in ways, Jim, it could be 6-6, it could be 7-5, it could be what it is.

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And you see sometimes movement the other way. And that, of course, is contingent upon the personalities in the jury, what their views and values are, how convincing and persuasive they are, et cetera.

You know, look, I'm one that believed is the judge believes that this should not have really been brought. The criminal justice system is to do justice, and when you have a situation like this, gun ownership, 11 days, not used in any violent crime, a person undergoing a dark moment in their lives, I don't care whether your name is Biden Trump or whoever you are, you have to be treated fairly in generally speaking, in negotiating with prosecutors, you get the result. That didn't happen here.

And so now, we're to the issue of sentence saying. And so I thought that potentially this jury would nullify, Jim, 6-6. I'm like, wow, okay. Jury nullification means that the juror perhaps -- the jury looks at this and said, all right, you're technically guilty. You technically were an addict at the time.

However, I'm sympathetic to that. People do want to go dark sides. Perhaps he didn't have the requisite mental state to know knowingly fill out the form. We're going to excuse him.

And so, in terms of my reaction, I thought potentially that could be it. Maybe they could be hung, but they didn't. They came together and said, you know what? You're guilty of the offenses before you.

Now, it goes on to the issue of sentencing. He will not face anywhere near this 25 years. What you hear talked about their sentencing guidelines and those guidelines are very specific with regard to the offense, criminal history.

And if you have very limited criminal history and offense, a judge can opt for probation.

SCIUTTO: Understood.

Okay. So given those question, Jeff Swartz, is their basis for an appeal here? Is there a likelihood of a successful appeal?

SWARTZ: It's kind of ironic that the appeals that Abby talked about another people have been talking about is the idea that this statute is unconstitutional under the second amendment.

And in fact, a court in Louisiana, I think it was a Fifth Circuit has already opined that any kind of restriction is violation of the second amendment. Well, I don't agree with that. That the idea being that somehow or another, this interferes with someone's rights.

I heard earlier today and I kind of agree with it that if you are an originalist, that everybody drank bash in the days that the Second Amendment was drafted. So therefore, you can drink or you can use drugs, whatever it may be. That's not going to work either because the Second Amendment is based on a reasonableness standard.

So I kind of look at it as saying that that is his appeal. They are going to ride that appeal. That is that's already on its way to the Supreme Court, and obviously, this statute will be decided on its constitutionality.

Other than that, I'm not quite sure what he's got because I wasn't in the courtroom. I couldn't see everything that happens, so I can't sit here and say, yeah, I've found that. I'd have to read a transcript, but I think that's really where they're going to ride this. They're going to just let those other cases go and see what happens with them.

And they'll file their appeal with that and see, you know, maybe he has lightning in a bottle.

SCIUTTO: The juror who spoke to CNN, juror number ten, said that inside the deliberation room, politics didn't come up. They weren't influential.

Have a listen. I want to get your thoughts, Joey.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You said that politics did not play a role in your assessment. Did you sense that it played a role in any of the other jurors' assessments?

HUNTER BIDEN JUROR 10 (through telephone): No, absolute -- I think that was unanimous, too. It was -- there was nothing, nobody's -- no politics came into play. And politics was not even spoken about. The first family was not even spoken about. It was all -- it was all about Hunter. It was.

There was more talk about Hunter. Naomi, everybody felt really bad that for Naomi.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: So, Joey, that struck me because, of course, you have all these obligations, particularly for the Trump camp, go into this trial, you know, you're not going to get a fair trial, politics influences everything. The decisions to charge, not to charge, et cetera.

But here, you have a juror saying, you know, in a jury drawn from a jury pool across that state, that politics didn't even come up. I mean, first of all, does that surprise you, Joey, and second of all, should that just give us some confidence here that right, all the allegations that were tribal at every level, even in the jury deliberation room, might not actually be true.

JACKSON: Yeah, Jim. You know, listen, that's well-stated and I think it does give us confidence. It gives us confidence in a judicial system that have obviously is imperfect, but a system that works. The judge instructs the jurors, right? As to the law, and you're expected as a juror to do your duty. That is to be the trier of fact.

And once you make a determination as to what those facts are unanimously, then you apply it to the law. And nothing in the law talks about whether you're the first family, the second family, whether you were attorney general of Delaware, or your brother was for that matter, are who your father does, what he does.

And so, you know, I feel very good about that, right? The notion that you can have a jury that sits in judgment of someone that divorces themselves, we're not Democrats, we're not Republicans, we're members who have been brought here to do a job. And that's what they did.

And so, it is surprising to me, right? Not that I don't have competent the system, I do. But people are people than you would think human beings perhaps would wax poetic about that, didn't come up, didn't happen. And so, we have to respect the jury's verdict.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. And we should note, you know, again, for all these charges from the outside. Here was an investigation under President Biden's Justice Department, right, run by his appointee that pursues an investigation against his son, charges him, and ultimately get to conviction, right, and with a special counsel who was actually appointed by Trump.

So, anyway, there are a lot of facts there to push back against the worst accusations.

Jeff Swartz, Joey Jackson, thanks so much.

JACKSON: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, now, for a sense from -- of the reaction inside the White House, from the president and the first family, I'm joined now by CNN senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak.

Kevin, I wonder, I mean, I imagined the White House had to be prepared for this outcome. Do you know how they're reacting, how they're handling it?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, they were and I think the probably the biggest sign of reaction is not necessarily anything that they've said or that President Biden has said, but its what he's doing, which is traveling back to Wilmington, Delaware, this evening. That hadn't been hunting his schedule previously, but clearly he feels in an imperative to be with his son, Hunter, with the first lady, Jill Biden at this very difficult moment.

And so, he is on his way there now. We did just see the precedent speaking at an event related to gun violence here in Washington, he belied none of the anguish that he's feeling behind and the scenes that we know he has been feeling throughout the course of this case. He was energized. He didn't feel -- seemed tired or upset in any way.

But there was one moment in that speech, which I think sort of came the closest to just touching the events of this Wilmington trial, which its when he mentioned his late son, Beau, and trying to relate to families who had lost their own children to gun violence. He talked about never giving up on hope and talking about how it's so hard to lose a child.

And we know that Hunter Biden's addiction problems, which were at the very center of this case, really began when his brother Beau died in 2015. So it is kind of all wrapped up there together in the president's experience. We did get a statement from the president which has been his preferred way of communicating about this case.

And he said, as I said last week, I'm the president, but I'm also a dad. Jill and I love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today. So many families who have had loved ones battle addiction understand the feeling of pride, seeing someone you love come out on the other side and be so strong and resilient and recovery.

And president goes on to say, as I also said last week, I will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as Hunter considers an appeal. Jill and I will always be there for Hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support.

And he concludes, nothing will ever change that. So the president very much viewing this as a father and not necessarily as a president, and also making very clear that as he said, he accepts the outcome of the case, trying to draw a delineation between what's happening in Delaware in his own reaction to it, and how former President Trump reacted to his own convictions in New York, after which she said that it was a rigged trial.

So, President Biden clearly trying to balance a lot of things here. I will just mention that as a result of the presidents shifted around schedule, the White House did cancel. The White House press briefing with Karine Jean-Pierre that would have been I suppose an opportunity to ask her about this case. I think in reality, she has been very sort of on message and disciplined on this. She would have probably read the president's statement and said not much else. So I'm not sure how valuable that briefing would have been in the end, but still optics wise, it is an interesting decision to cancel the briefing on the day that this happens -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Notable.

Kevin Liptak, thanks so much.

Well, Hunter Biden says he is now more grateful for the love and support of his family than he's disappointed by the outcome of this trial -- another painful moment for president and his family. The president has dealt with tragedy, so much tragedy.

Senior reporter Stephen Collinson joins us now.

And, Stephen, in a statement, President Biden's statements that I am the president, but I'm also a dad, you know, acknowledging as he often has acknowledged, his pain and heartbreak at the lost of his other son, Beau Biden he did not though, address his son's conviction that the gun laws event today. I just wonder how you see this weighing on him, and any impact, if any, in the midst of a presidential campaign?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: I think it's clearly been weighing on him very deeply. Family for Joe Biden is almost a supernatural force. They're rarely goes past the day where he doesn't mention his late mother and father, his late son, Beau.

[15:20:01]

He clearly was very, very concerned about the state and the health of his son, Hunter, during this whole trial process. Almost every weekend, Biden goes back to Delaware to gather his family around him.

So, it's a great sustaining force as well as a worry for him. So I think the natural impacts that anyone would have if their son was going through this ordeal was in trouble with the law, a magnified for Biden just because of the importance of family and his life, and then you have as you were saying, the whole institutional aspect of this, the fact that he is the president and he's responsible for enforcing the laws of the United States.

SCIUTTO: The Trump campaign released a statement on the trial essentially targeted President Biden saying this trial has been nothing more than a distraction from the real crimes of the Biden crime family. Of course, frequently charged, evidenced not presented either by Trump or Republicans. Originally, though we should note this, the statement and with the line as for Hunter, we wish him well in his recovery and legal affairs.

The Trump campaign then sent an updated statement that struck that kind statement. Those kind words to Hunter Biden, what -- why what could be behind that?

COLLINSON: Somebody of a suspicious cause of mind might suggest that perhaps someone high up in the campaign, perhaps even the former president himself, might have seen that slight moment of compassion and decided that that's not the message they wanted to send. What is clear is that Trump and his fellow Republicans are trying to use this verdict as a way of trying to create some equivalence, the talk of the Biden prime family, to put the idea in the minds of voters that this is just normal, that political figures as a cost of doing business, they're corrupt.

That is clearly supposed to detract from any negative feeling that voters might have about the former presidents conviction less than two weeks ago. And the three outstanding cases and a massive flurry of other civil cases that he's facing and several that he's lost.

So, clearly, what the Trump campaign is trying to do and what the former president will try and do is argue that Biden is just like him and there's nothing to see here. And the question integrity of his character and his fitness for office really shouldn't be on the table.

SCIUTTO: I mean, here's the trouble though, right? I mean, the crime was that the justice system of being weaponized against Trump, and his allies. The fact that the DOJ also just charged the president's son, set aside and then to replace that specious argument, they create another one that well, this is actually cover to cover up other crimes which they don't present evidence for. But that's the world we live in, a land of alternative facts.

Stephen Collinson, thanks so much.

COLLINSON: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: When we come back, Hamas's military leader, Yahya Sinwar, believes his group has the upper hand eight months into the war against Israel. Leaked texts cited by "The Wall Street Journal" provide insight into his thinking and his apparent belief that lengthening the war serves his interests.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Eleven days after President Biden announced an Israeli ceasefire proposal, Hamas has finally responded to mediators. Qatari officials tell CNN, more discussions are needed. Sounds familiar.

Earlier today, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who is in the region, pushing for an agreement once again, said a decision rests on one man, one group, Hamas, and its leader, military leader Yahya Sinwar.

And this is new, leaked text messages seen by "The Wall Street Journal" show Sinwar telling Hamas officials, quote: We have the Israelis right where they want -- we want them.

CNN's Paula Hancocks joins me now from Jerusalem.

And, Paula, it's notable here, right, because he seems to be saying that no deal, no ceasefire, lengthening the war, even additional Palestinian casualties in Gaza all serve Hamas's interests.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, this is obviously from "Wall Street Journal" reporting. We can't independently confirm the authenticity of these text messages, but the fact is, this is what it appears to be. I mean, there's already, as you can imagine, being a response from the Israeli side, the IDF saying that he is using, the Palestinian people. And it's not a surprise from their point of view.

But within these, these text messages, there is the allegation that the Sinwar wants to extend the negotiation. So, not -- not agreed to the ceasefire or hostage deal, but really push for a permanent ceasefire without giving too much away. And, of course, it's interesting, this report coming just the same day in the past couple of hours, we've heard from Hamas when it comes to this U.S.-backed three-phase proposal, and they have effectively said we're looking at it positively, but we have comments.

So they've come back to the mediators, Egypt and Qatar, with their comments. They said that still keen on a complete ceasefire and of the Israeli military withdrawing from Gaza. But they are making these comments in the interests of the Palestinian people. So that's not a definitive yes to the proposal.

We had something similar earlier today as well from the Israeli side. Statements, which again was not a definitive yes to this proposal but saying that they would agree to a permanent ceasefire if certain conditions were met, if Gaza was not going to be a threat to Israel in the future, if all the hostages came home, and if Hamas was sufficiently degraded when it came to its ability to govern or its military capabilities.

So, from the Israeli side, this is certainly the closest they have come to an outright yes to this proposal which the Biden administration says is an Israeli proposal, but really on the face of it, there are still gaps in what Israel is saying it is going to accept and what this proposal is.

So I think what we've seen today, Jim, is both sides, Hamas and Israel saying yes, but, and then they have more conditions, they have more comments. So, potentially a step forward, but certainly not the definitive agreements that we are waiting for.

SCIUTTO: Yes. But dynamics seems to have lasted for weeks now.

Paula Hancocks, thanks so much.

So, for more on the ceasefire talks, what happens next? Lets join with Aaron David Miller, former Middle East negotiator for the State Department, now senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. So, I want to ask you about your thoughts about Hamas's thinking about this war and these negotiations and then Israel's.

[15:30:04]

Let's start on Hamas's here. But did these text messages reveal what I think you and I've talked about before, which is that, Hamas sees a longer war even with the enormous Palestinian casualties as its interests.

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT : I think that's absolutely right, and I think Hamas is planning on trading time tunnels and hostages for what they really want which is, A, formal cessation of hostilities, B, the survival of the organization and the senior leadership. And C, a situation which they can emerge in the post-October 7 world that is Gaza as a significant player, either through co-opting the Palestinian authority or through intimidation.

And I think Sinwar frankly, I mean, it's sad, it's tragic. I hate to admit it, but it just seems to me the next month is the nine months of this war, I think in that respect, Hamas is much closer to achieving its goals than the Israelis are.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, remarkable statement.

So let's talk about the Israelis because, because Biden has characterized this proposal is an Israeli proposal. Blinken says he's received the assurances that Netanyahu supports it. And yet you have this senior Israeli official saying, you know, no deal until all of its military objectives are met.

I wonder, do you consider Israeli officials, the Israeli government as serious about an agreement, or do they see advantage and continuing the war as it -- as it is going right now?

MILLER: You know, it's fascinating question. Let's be clear though. This is an Israeli proposal. It is a set of Israeli ideas which the prime minister and the war cabinet, which I think the prime minister since Benny Gantz left the government is on the cusp of probably just banding. This is an Israeli proposal and this is, I think the third time that the administration and the Israeli system have started reaffirmed that in fact, the prime minister and the war cabinet, Jim, not the -- not the government and it's going to have to be submitted should Hamas come back with a reasonable "yes, but", a reasonable "yes, but", not a set of deal breakers, then you might -- you might get a moment of truth.

But I'm telling you, my -- one of my former bosses is James Baker had it right. He, on the road to Madrid in October '91, he referred to what he called a dead cat diplomacy, where the goal of a negotiation, part of the two parties that are negotiating, it's not to reach a deal. It's to ensure that the other guy or the other party takes the hit, if and when the deal collapses, and the dead cat is left on that party's doorstep. And you get -- you get a real sense here certainly in the part of Hamas and I would think even the prime minister that this is largely performative. I think the Israelis believed that Hamas will not accept this, and that the Americans have been praised this proposal up and down as extremely generous, are going to be locked in to supporting the Israeli point of view.

SCIUTTO: It's not exactly an optimistic prognosis on the state of these talks, but listen, you've been there for many years.

Aaron David Miller, thanks so much.

MILLER: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Dead cat diplomacy.

Well, coming up, as his son is convicted on felony gun charges, Biden is renewing calls for stricter firearm laws and a ban on assault weapons.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:37:04]

SCIUTTO: After his own son's conviction on guns charges, President Biden is renewing his calls for stricter gun laws and a ban on assault weapons today in an event for one of the largest gun safety groups in the country, bringing back to the fore key political issue for Democrats and drawing a contrast with his opponent, Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATESE: After a school shooting in Iowa that killed a student and a teacher, my predecessor was asked about it. You remember what he said. He says have to get over it.

Hell no, we don't have to get over it. You got to stop it and stop it now!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: While he was speaking, Atlanta police were and continue to respond to for people shot at a food court, exposing another example of the tragic reality of gun violence in this country. Already in 2024, there have been more than 7,000 gun deaths, not including suicides, more than 200 mass shootings, this according to the Gun Violence Archive.

With me to discuss the state of gun violence in the U.S. is Dr. Joseph Sakran. He's the head of emergency general surgery at Johns Hopkins, serves on the board of the Brady campaign which advocates for gun safety laws.

Doctor, thanks so much for joining.

DR. JOSEPH SAKRAN, EMERGENCY GENERAL SURGERY DIRECTOR, JOHNS HOPKINS: Yeah, great to be with you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So let's start by talking about attempts at progress here. We are roughly two years since the signing of what was a bipartisan bill, law, Safer -- the Safer Communities Act, that expanded background checks for people under 21, added incentives for states to implement what are known as red flag laws.

Have we seen any data to show if that law has made a difference in preventing gun violence?

SAKRAN: Yeah. So, Jim, I think what you're clearly pointing to you is the first federal legislation in nearly 30 years that had a variety of different issues to tackle his public health problem. And I think that point has to be underscored. There is no one solution to this issue.

And tackling this issue requires a multi-faceted approach that cuts across all sectors, which is why the legislation that you mentioned. And so many other programs and policies that we have been advocating for an implementing are so critical. And we have started to see in cities and states across America, the homicide rates specifically to gun violence head in the right direction.

Now are we exactly where we need to be? Absolutely not. There's still a lot of work to be done, but we can't underestimate the amount of progress that has been done by the Biden administration and by so many people that have been pounding the pavement in cities and states across America.

SCIUTTO: To your point, the FBI released new data from the first quarter of the year. It showed that violent crime in this country dropped more than 15 percent compared to last year.

[15:40:08]

That includes major drops in murders, reported rapes, aggregated -- aggravated assault and robberies. Not all specifically gun violence, but some of those certainly including guns. I wonder, there are a whole host of causes that go into a change like that, including police responses and other issues.

But is -- is this gun law or other gun measures or strategies to deal with guns are contributing factor to those declining crime statistics?

SAKRAN: Yeah, I definitely think it is -- it is a contributing factor and it's not only the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act. Think about the American Rescue Plan, where President Biden invested $15 billion to tackle crime. Think about that creation of the White House Office of Gun Violence Prevention.

Think about what we're doing in states like Maryland, where Governor Moore and just signed a statewide officer on gun violence prevention. And in Baltimore City, where I'm a trauma surgeon, Mayor Brandon Scott, has a comprehensive plan to try to tackle these injuries and deaths that people like myself, health care professionals, are seeing on a daily basis. And I think the one thing, Jim, that we have realized is that the best

medical treatment is prevention. And that's why as chair of the board in Brady, we've launched -- this is our lane, advisory council, to continue to bring together health care professionals, as we try to focus on this issue and really a multi-faceted way across the spectrum of disciplines and talented individuals that are required in order to move the needle forward on this issue.

SCIUTTO: President Biden today mentioned in assault weapons ban and again. Of course, if we were speaking in a different time 20 years ago, that was a bipartisan proposal. Of course, no longer.

I just wonder is there a realistic path to an assault weapons ban because even for instance, in the first two years of the Biden administration with Democrats controlled the House, the Senate, and, of course, the White House. It just didn't go anywhere. I mean, you have opposition certainly from the Republican Party to virtually anything that regulates guns. And then you even have some Democrats in purple districts, or elsewhere who won't vote for them.

I mean, is there a realistic path to an assault weapons ban?

SAKRAN: Yeah. Look, I think when you look at policies around things like banning military assault weapons, is that going to solve the entire problem? No. Is it part of the solution? Absolutely. And we know how these types of weapons, including high capacity magazines, are often used in the mass shootings that you and so many others in the media cover?

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

SAKRAN: Now, are we going to be able to pass this tomorrow? Probably not. But do we have to continue to still fight and make sure that we make people understand why it's important to implement a compilation of solutions that are going to allow us to make Americans safer? Absolutely.

And when you currently look at what's happening right now in America, 90 percent of homicides are hand gun-related.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

SAKRAN: So the assault weapons ban is only one part of a broader solution that's so critical to really combat this uniquely American crisis.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

SAKRAN: All I will tell you is that this is not a Democratic issue. It's not a Republican issue, right? It's an American issue, one that affects any and all of us.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. Listen, I mean, it's a big factor. It's suicides as well.

Folks might not know, but you're a gunshot -- SAKRAN: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: You're a gunshot survivor yourself. You treat victims of gun violence every day and I know you could tell stories about just how these -- these high-velocity weapons, what they do to the human body.

Can you talk for a moment about just the broader impacts of gun violence even on the survivors, the folks who make it through?

SAKRAN: Yeah, I think that's such an important point because often, Jim, we're still focused on the physical wounds that we forget the bio-psychosocial impact. Look as someone who is a survivor that was inspired to become a trauma surgeon and now has been working for prevention, there is nothing more heartbreaking than having to go talk to these moms and dads and explain to them that their child had left that morning, has never coming home again. And I got to tell you, Jim, every time I do this, a piece of me dies.

These are not just numbers and statistics. We're talking about brothers and sisters. We're talking about family members. We're talking about people that are part of the social fabric of our community. And I just can't stand on the sidelines of history as we continue to see people being injured and killed on a daily basis.

[15:45:06]

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

SAKRAN: And I think frankly, a lot of Americans are desensitized to what people like myself and other healthcare professionals are witnessing, right, in our trauma centers, in our operating room -- that destruction of bone, you know, pulverizing tissue. It's absolutely devastating.

And I think we can do better and we must do better. And that solution and that medical treatment is not in the trauma center specifically. It's also beyond the bedside and that's why we focus at Brady on prevention and trying to bring people together to prevent these injuries from happening in the first place.

SCIUTTO: Well, we appreciate the work you do. Dr. Joseph Sakran, thanks so much for joining.

SAKRAN: Thanks so much for having me, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Coming up, another day, another Supreme Court controversy. Justice Samuel Alito's wife was secretly recorded complaining about not being able to respond to a neighbor's Pride flag. We're going to discuss the ongoing ethics questions plaguing America's highest court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Turning to the Supreme Court and the ever-evolving ethics and recusal controversy around in particular, Justice Samuel Alito. New audio secretly recorded by a left-wing activist and posted on X, formerly known as Twitter, reveals politically sensitive comments from the justice, his wife Martha-Ann, and Chief Justice John Roberts responding, discussing religious freedom, politics, and LGBTQ rights.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SAMUEL ALITO, U.S. SUPREME COURT ASSOCIATE JUSTICE: One side or the other is going to win. There can be a way of working -- a way of living together peacefully. But it's difficult, you know, because there are differences one fundamental things that really can't be compromised.

[15:50:00]

So, it's not like you're going to split the difference.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN reached out to Justice Alito for comment, did not get a response. He went on to describe the country as a Christian nation.

Joining me now, CNN senior Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic.

And has he made that comment and others on these tapes, do they reveal more than just as personal feelings, but his view of the law? That's the key question.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Well, good to be with you, Jim, but let me just say that just about everything that he said privately in those secret tapes, he has echoed in his opinions and other public statements.

Justice Alito has not shied away from religious themes and quoting Scripture. It was just so unusual to hear him in this situation where he was being secretly taped and for him to be so cavalier at a time, Jim, as you know, that he is just -- he's under intense scrutiny because of the flag controversies that have been out there, and we're in June, the biggest month of the term when were expecting so many major rulings.

But he certainly let his guard down, but Justice Alito his already portrayed himself as a bit of a religious warrior and someone who has faced persecution. He's talked about religion been under siege, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, his wife, Martha-Ann, already controversial due to the flag controversy, she was caught on these recordings discussing LGBTQ rights. Have a quick listen, I want to get your thoughts.

BISKUPIC: Sure.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MARTHA-ANN ALITO, WIFE OF JUSTICE ALITO: The femnazis believed that he should control me.

LAUREN WINDSOR, PROGRESSIVE ACTIVIST: Yeah.

ALITO: So, they'll go to hell. He never controls me.

I want a Sacred Heart of Jesus flag because I have to look across the lagoon at the Pride flag for the next month.

WINDSOR: Exactly.

ALITO: And he's like, oh, please don't put a flag. I said I won't do it because I'm deferring to you. But when you are free of this nonsense, I'm putting it up and I'm going to send them a message every day.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Send them, I guess, people who put up Pride flags.

I mean, the trouble is this is an issue that comes up before the court and Alito himself, he's consistently been on the side of really what's called religious liberty over LGBTQ rights.

BISKUPIC: That's right, Jim. Justice Alito has voted against gay marriage, voted against LGBTQ equality interests. He's the judge -- justice. His wife is not, but a lot of his views on religion and on gay rights were on display in these recordings.

And, you know, the justices have not commented, but Supreme Court Historical Society that was holding the gala, which these tapes were -- these recordings were collected has certainly condemned it is unfair to have surreptitiously recorded. But as I say, it really does show Justice Alito and the others being unguarded and treated themselves in various ways, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Listen, and perhaps that has a bigger impact on the court's history, right, and then the moment as recorded.

Joan Biskupic, thanks so much.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: And we will be right back with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:55:28]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Some good news regarding the treatment of Alzheimer's. Independent advisers to the USFDA voted to endorse a new drug that's designed to slow the progression of early onset Alzheimer's. The FDA advisory panel voted unanimously in favor of Eli Lilly's new drug, donanemab. The drug works by helping the body get rid of plaque buildups in the brain, which studies have shown are key indicators of Alzheimer's.

It's officially approved by the FDA, it would be the second drug available on the market that helps people in the early stages of Alzheimer's. There are nearly 7 million Americans, 65 and older, living with Alzheimer's. One in three older Americans die with Alzheimer's or another form of dementia, this according to the Alzheimer's association, perhaps some good news there. Well, thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in

Washington.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.