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Biden And Trump's Levels Of Disparity In Support Of Ukraine As War Continues; Wildfire Rages On In L.A County; Biden's Hollywood Fundraiser Breaks Records, Rips Donald Trump And The Supreme Court; Omar Jimenez Reports Several Mass Shootings; Opal Lee Receives A New House; A Son Searches For His Roots. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired June 16, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: Welcome, everyone, you're in the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Omar Jimenez in Washington. We're going to begin this hour with fierce fighting in eastern Ukraine as Ukrainian troops say they've successfully countered or they are successfully countering Russian advances around a town near Kharkiv right along the Russian border, which has turned the town itself into a front line in this war. You can see Vovchansk highlighted on the map there.

Now, the extent of the damage is pretty staggering, as you can see there from this drone footage overhead. Much of the fighting in the last few weeks has reportedly centered around an aggregate plant, which usually produces materials for construction. Now it's a combat zone where Ukrainian troops have tried to isolate Russian units to cross the border as part of a recent offensive.

One Ukrainian commander referred to Russian troops in the town as surrounded. And one of the biggest shifts on that eastern front is the U.S. permitting Ukraine to use some American weapons to strike targets across the Russian border in Russian territory. That's allowed Ukraine to counter some of Russia's gains as of late.

Now, it's indicative of how this administration, the Biden White House, treats support for Ukraine, especially as compared to Biden's opponent in this year's election, Donald Trump. Both candidates striking very different tones this week when it comes to this war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to stand with Ukraine.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think Zelensky is maybe the greatest salesman of any politician that's ever lived.

Every time he comes to our country, he walks away with $60 billion.

I will have that settled prior to taking the White House as president- elect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And that obviously has major implications for the war ahead. Let's talk more about this with former Defense Secretary under President Bill Clinton and the CEO of the Cohen Group, William Cohen. Now, first, what do you make of these comments from Trump yesterday on Zelensky? Let's start there.

WILLIAM COHEN, CEO, THE COHEN GROUP: Oh, I'm sorry. What do I make of them? I think that he's perhaps the greatest salesman in the history of political leadership or non-leadership. The fact is that Zelensky, I think, has emerged as one of the strongest leaders in the world today. Given the fact that he has been attacked by Russia, by Vladimir Putin, he's had thousands of people killed. You have Putin who has sent missiles into hospitals, into maternity wards, into schoolyards, in schools themselves.

They've killed thousands of people and caused millions to become migrants. And so for Zelensky to stand up and say, I am fighting for freedom, I'm fighting for my freedom as an independent country, and I'm fighting for Europe's freedom. Because if Putin is allowed to take Ukraine, which former President Trump has said, do whatever the hell you want. You can take Ukraine. You can take anything else you want in Europe, as long as they don't pay up their bills.

Well, for someone who has filed bankruptcy multiple times and not paying bills, that's pretty rich coming from the former president. But in any event, the Europeans stand strongly with Ukraine. And President -- our President Biden stands really strong with them, saying we're with you for years and years to come. That's provided that President Biden is still president. And that's the danger that we face, that former President Trump will take office again and sell out the Ukrainians in a nanosecond. That's what the Europeans are worried about. That's what we as believers in freedom should be worried about.

JIMENEZ: Well, and that, of course, those are the stakes, the added stakes that many see heading into this election. And to add into that discussion, obviously, President Biden returning from G7 summit in recent days where it's clear, at least in some cases, U.S. allies are worried that all of this progress that they may have made in solidarity, of course, in supporting Ukraine may be undone if Trump were to win a second term.

So, just on the global stage, what happens if some of the perspectives that Trump is putting out right now actually make their way into policy if he retakes the White House?

COHEN: I think we'll see geopolitical instability. First of all, President Trump shouldn't be re-elected. He will pull the money and the support from Ukraine. That will help destabilize NATO, which he has also said he does not favor. So if NATO doesn't have the United States, we are the biggest contributor.

[17:05:01] We are the backbone of the NATO alliance. If you pull us out, the NATO organization probably won't survive for any length of time. That will destabilize Europe and put Putin in a very good position to dominate the European theater as such.

Secondly, it will undermine support by our Asian allies, because if we won't support Ukraine, which is in Europe, what are we going to do if China should ever move against Taiwan? All of those Asian allies will say, wait a minute, President Trump has threatened to pull support from South from South Korea. He's also pulled support from Japan. You pull our troops out of Japan, out of South Korea. What's the rest of our alliances in the Asia-Pacific or Indo-Pacific region? What do they say at that point? We live in the region, United States, you don't. We'll make the best deal we can, and that will be with China.

So, this has global implications for us in terms of our European allies. And if we don't have our European allies, when it comes time to challenging China economically, diplomatically, who's going to be with us? The Europeans saying you dumped us. We're not with you in going after China. We're not with you should you ever have to go to a conflict in war with China over Taiwan. You'll be all alone. You won't have us with you.

So, there are great implications for our security, for international stability. We believe in freedom. We believe in the rule of law. And Donald Trump doesn't. He doesn't believe in the rule of law. He believes in the rule of power, the power of rule. And so he wants to be more like Vladimir Putin. Inside a Trump doll is a Putin doll. He wants to be more like Xi Jinping. He wants to be more like Kim Jong Un.

He wants to be more like them so he can have a military that that pays fealty to him, swears loyalty to him. When you and I pledge allegiance, it's not to a president, it's to the flag of the United States, the republic for which it stands, to the Constitution of the United States. That's what Donald Trump doesn't want to hear from anybody serving in public office come 2025.

JIMENEZ: And you mentioned Putin. And we have seen at least this past Friday, Russian President Putin outlined his terms for the end of the war in Ukraine, which include the withdrawal of Ukrainian troops from multiple territories, the abandonment of Ukraine's application to NATO, the lifting of Western sanctions as well.

These terms are obviously a shot in the dark based on where things stand right now. A long shot, I should say, without both parties coming to the table. But I guess the question is to take the premise of where those answers came from. How do you see this war ending?

COHEN: I don't see it ending soon unless Donald Trump becomes president of the United States. If that happens, then I think he will pull the rug out from Ukraine. He will tell Putin, you can have whatever you want to do with Ukraine. It's your territory and we're not going to support Ukraine any longer. I don't support Zelensky. I don't support sovereignty for the Ukrainians. And we have to remember, Putin has invaded a sovereign, independent country. We can't allow him to get away with it, so to speak, because he never pays a penalty for violating international rules of law. And so if he's not -- he went after Georgia, got a piece of Georgia. He's gone after Crimea, taken Crimea. He's gone after the Donbass. He wants that.

So he keeps taking a chunk at a time of an independent country. And we say it's okay, you can have whatever you want. I don't think the American people should want that. I don't believe they do want that. But you have supporters on Capitol Hill who support Putin, who support whatever he is doing, because they believe that he's a strong man and they want a strong man in the White House.

A strong man in the White House means you lose rights. It means you don't have the freedom to speak your piece of mind. You don't have the freedom to challenge your power. That's what living with a strong man means. I don't think any Americans should ever want that.

JIMENEZ: And, you know, we have seen, as you bring up Capitol Hill, how increasingly difficult it has to pass funding for the defense and aid of Ukraine. And it's a process that could be threatened, again, based on what Donald Trump has said to this point. William Cohen, we've got to leave it there. But I appreciate the time and perspective. Thanks for being here.

All right. Breaking news tonight in California, where a wildfire in Los Angeles County has now burned 12,000 acres and strong winds are likely to keep stoking the fire, with the National Weather Service predicting gusts of up to 70 miles an hour. Camila Bernal joins us now in Gorman, California, where the fire started about an hour north of Los Angeles. So Camila, I know you've been out and about today. What are you seeing there?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Omar, I wanted to show you exactly right now. They are doing some of those water drops.

[17:10:01]

So we'll have to wait and see exactly where the helicopter goes and where that water drop happens. But we're seeing a lot of the water drops. We're seeing the crews on the ground. Here behind me, you see some of them now. What they were doing was preventative work, trying to keep that fire away from the areas that it has not burned yet.

Of course, you're seeing heavy machinery also right now, and there's still a lot of hotspots. So a lot of the air drops are targeting those hotspots. We're only at 2 percent containment at the moment with 12,000 acres at least already burned. There are people under evacuation orders, 1,200 of them, in fact, and others who are under evacuation warnings. People are being told to be extremely careful and to be ready to go.

Here behind me, my photographer was telling me the air drop -- the water drop, excuse me, might be coming. There you go. You see it there as they're targeting those specific areas. So very active. You know, there are firefighters working around the clock. So many crews out here trying to keep that containment.

Their biggest concern right now is the wind, because today, throughout the day, we can see 45 to 55 mile per hour wind gusts. And then later on tonight, there's huge concern because we could see 60 to 70 mile per hour wind gusts. So take a listen to what the Forest Service is saying about this concern.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLEMING BERTELSEN, U.S. FOREST SERVICE: Every one of us is concerned with the wind. That's the single most driving factor of this fire. It does -- it burns fairly frequently along this corridor, which keeps it from there being a very large brush component. However, now we have more light, flashy fuels so the fire can move quickly.

And then when the wind lines up with the drainages and starts ripping right through them, it's definitely a concern. So that's what we're looking at. Hopefully these winds that are forecasted tonight don't materialize to the extent they're supposed to, which is 60 mile an hour. And maybe tomorrow will be a more calm day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: So you heard it there from the fire service. They're concerned about how quickly this fire can spread. So far, they've been able to keep it away from homes and structures. Only two have been destroyed so far. So, hopefully they're able to contain the fire around the areas that are specifically more populated.

But again, they're very concerned about what could happen tonight. And they say it's the high temperatures. It's the low humidity. And again, that wind that is really making it difficult for all of these firefighters that are working around the clock today. Omar?

JIMENEZ: The wind, usually a complicating factor in these situations at an active scene, as Camila Bernal just showed us. Really appreciate it. Stay safe out there.

All right. Still ahead, President Biden doesn't hold back at a star- studded fundraiser in Hollywood. We're going to tell you what he's saying about the Supreme Court as he warns about a second Trump presidency.

Plus, police say a terrifying mass shooting in Michigan was random. Nine people were shot at a splash pad park, including two children. We have new details next.

And Juneteenth, the holiday commemorating the end of slavery in the United States, is coming on Wednesday. We're going to bring you the story of one man who says his father was born before slavery was officially abolished, how he went back to a small Georgia town to find his roots. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:00] JIMENEZ: All right, everybody, we got 11 days until the first presidential debate held right here on CNN. If you don't believe me, there's the -- there's the proof right there. It was 12 yesterday, 11 today. The 2024 presidential campaign is kicking into high gear.

Last night, President Joe Biden and former President Barack Obama went to a fundraiser packed with Hollywood celebrities. The president's warned of the dangers of a second Trump presidency in a discussion moderated by Jimmy Kimmel. The Biden campaign says the event raised $30 million. That's the most successful single day event in the party's history.

CNN correspondent Priscilla Alvarez joins us now. All right. So, Priscilla Biden obviously had some pretty sharp criticisms of Trump, which I think was to be expected, but also the Supreme Court.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, this was a scenario in which he warned about a second Donald Trump presidency, but he focused it specifically on the Supreme Court, saying that it's potentially -- it's possible that in the next four years there will be openings on the Supreme Court. And what does that mean if Donald Trump is in a second term during that period of time? He called it, quote, "one of the scariest parts." Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The next president is likely to have two new Supreme Court nominees, two more, two more. He's already appointed two that have been very negative in terms of the rights of individuals. The idea that if he's reelected, he's going to appoint two more firing flags upside down is really -- I really mean it.

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST: Could this be -- could this be the scariest part of all of it?

BIDEN: Well, I think it is one of the scariest parts of it. Look, the Supreme Court has never been as out of kilter as it is today. After the decision that overruled Roe v. Wade, the Dobbs decision, you had Clarence Thomas talking about the fact that there are going to be other things we should reconsider, including in vitro fertilization, including contraception, including all these things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:20:00]

ALVAREZ: So two points there. He talks about the flag controversy surrounding Alito and the flags that were flown outside of his homes. But he also talks about abortion. And this has been a galvanizing issue for the Biden campaign, one that they anticipate leaning into more, especially ahead of the Dobbs anniversary.

And so you heard the president talk there about what could happen moving forward if more conservative justices are added to the Supreme Court. Former President Barack Obama, who was seated next to President Biden, also talked about the values of each candidate and that that should also be taken into consideration by voters.

But this was also an opportunity to rake in more money. And they certainly did that with the more than $30 million that were raised. That was the largest ever Democratic fundraiser. So they're setting a record there and clearly trying to build momentum going into November.

JIMENEZ: And look, I mean, they are obviously in full campaign mode right now. You've got to raise money, obviously, what I would say, almost testing out some talking points and seeing what might translate to actual voter enthusiasm. But part of this as well is also First Lady Dr. Jill Biden and where she has been throughout all of this.

We saw her at points in the Hunter Biden trial, obviously supporting him there. But where has she been throughout all this?

ALVAREZ: Well, she certainly plays a key role in supporting the family. But she just came off a three-day campaign swing where she visited multiple states and she's in a very unique position to tackle the issue of age. This is clearly front of mind for voters for both candidates. They're both unpopular and voters are concerned that they are up there in age.

And so she, being the spouse of President Joe Biden, but also being a senior herself, has talked about the benefits of aging. So she has been an aggressive surrogate for them who has gone out on the campaign trail and essentially made the argument on campaign stops that, look, both of them are up there in age. They're both seniors. But at the end of the day, who is going to preserve democracy? So she is in that unique position to do that as the spouse and as the first lady.

JIMENEZ: Well, if there is a doubt that the campaign was in full swing, I think we are seeing that now. Priscilla Alvarez, really appreciate you being here.

We got a lot to talk about on this. And that's why we've got Larry Sabato who joins us now. He's the director for the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia and editor of the book "Return to Normalcy: The 2020 Election That Almost Broke America." Can't wait to see what happens in 2024.

All right. Let's start with the cash advantage that we just talked about there, $30 million, obviously a record for Democratic raising here. I mean, but put it in perspective, how much does that level of cash help someone like President Biden?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Omar, it helps. It is not going to be the critical factor in the election. If you look at the totals, you could even say that Trump has been doing better than Biden recently. But of course, that doesn't allow for the fact that so much of the money that the RNC is raising and that Trump is raising is being drained off to all of Trump's lawyers and legal expenses. And that's only going to continue as the appeals go forward and potentially the other trials emerge, too.

So, it's a plus for Biden, but that is not something that's going to win the election for him. In a presidential election, big things matter, big things, the economy, international relations and other issues like that.

JIMENEZ: And one of those things, at least that we heard him mention, and, you know, I guess time will tell if it ends up being one of those big things, is the Supreme Court. I mean, he called it, quote, "out of kilter" in regards to where the American people are. Is making the court part of one of those big things, part of what's at stake in this election, an effective message, you think, to get out the vote?

SABATO: Yes, and it has to be if Biden is going to be re-elected. It absolutely has to be. Over many decades, those of us who follow politics have learned that Republicans will often vote on the Supreme Court as an issue, what they might do, what they have done. Democrats in general have avoided the issue or ignored it. I think that's changed. I think it's changed because of the overturning of Roe v. Wade and Dobbs and other things, too.

You know, we, at least in my lifetime, we have never had a Supreme Court that was so clearly ideologically driven. You have six Republicans and three Democrats. And on any ideological and partisan issue, that's pretty much the way it turns out. It's six to three and they can deny it all they want. We know how partisan they are. So this is an opportunity for Democrats using the abortion issue and potentially the expansion of it to other things like contraception. This is critical for Democratic chances of success in 2024.

JIMENEZ: And on that last point, obviously, with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, that ignited a whole bunch of different fallout factors. But along the political lines of things, it's been a big motivating factor for Democrats and we saw the results of that, of course, in the midterms that came right after that.

[17:25:01]

Do you see that, though, the enthusiasm around that or the enthusiasm at going against that being enough to propel voters in the same way across the finish line this November than maybe what it was in the first elections after that decision?

SABATO: Well, in a presidential election, I think you have to put together a coalition of people concerned about different issues, different items on the agenda. So is it sufficient? No. Is it a necessary part of the Democratic message? Absolutely. Without it, things would appear grim, I think, for President Bush, but he's got that issue.

Other Democrats have the issue. This is going to be reinforced by Democrats running for U.S. Senate and House and governor and state legislature. So, it really matters. Other things matter, too, including potentially the debates and how the candidates come across.

JIMENEZ: Yeah. And look, as we talk about individual little things that each candidate is maybe trying to piece together or use to potentially gain more support, we've seen Trump try to make a fresh appeal to black voters. I mean, he was campaigning at a black church in Detroit this weekend, though it's not really clear how many black people were actually there. That's a discussion for a different time. But his efforts clearly seem to be in the graphics that we're showing right now, is Biden still based on polls still has a clear advantage among black voters, but the margins sort of changing again, at least on what's been polled so far. And so my question to you is, based on what we've seen to this point and based on what's been put forward by Trump, do you think he can court enough black voters to make a difference in the margins in some of these swing states where that could actually make a difference?

SABATO: Well, Trump is clearly trying to unsettle Democrats, and so far, he's succeeding. If you listen to what Democrats are saying, they are worried. The fundamental part of it is that President Biden's approval level is in the mid to upper 30s. He can't win with it there, even with those independent third-party candidates. He needs it to be in at least the mid-40s.

Once that happens, if it happens, I think you'll see the level of support for Biden among black voters, among maybe Hispanic voters and also among young people. I think you'll see it go up again. It may not get to the levels of 2020, but it may get enough to give Biden the energy he needs to get over the finish line. But it's all connected. It's not just the attempt by Trump to win some black votes.

He's also playing the same game with Hispanics, and it seems to be succeeding more than it is with blacks. And with young people, in part because of what's going on in the Mideast.

JIMENEZ: Yeah. Larry, I always appreciate you taking the time to come on. Your perspective is always great on the topic. I'm sure we'll have you back soon. Larry Sabato, everyone. Really appreciate it.

SABATO: Thank you, Omar.

JIMENEZ: All right. Still ahead, we're following mass shootings across three states that have left two dead and dozens injured this weekend. We're going to tell you what we're learning about a shooting at a summer splash pad in Michigan where nine people were shot. We're going to bring you the details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:00

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIMENEZ: All right, developing tonight, several mass shootings across the country this weekend in Texas. At least two people were killed when a gunfight broke out at a Juneteenth celebration outside of Austin. Multiple others injured. Now, authorities confirm neither of the two victims were actually involved in the altercation in Massachusetts. Seven people were shot during a car club meetup outside of Boston. Police say the gathering organized on social media turned violent, with victims ranging from their late teens to early 20s.

And in Michigan, we've been following the story. Authorities are searching for a motive after a gunman opened fire at a splash pad park yesterday, shooting nine people, including children. CNN's Gloria Pasmino is live on the latest on that investigation. Gloria, I mean, police are calling this apparently a random shooting. What more do we know?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Omar, the investigation is still ongoing. We have not yet learned about any kind of motive, but we do know that it appears this shooting, as bad as it was, could have been a lot worse.

There were total of nine people that were wounded by the gunfire, including several children, two of them just four and eight years old. One of them shot in the head remains in critical condition. And his mother, a 39-year-old woman who was shot in the leg and the stomach, she is also in critical condition. Police telling us they are all members of the same family. This happened Saturday afternoon at a splash pad, just during what is usually supposed to be a fun, normal weekend day for kids and families.

But that's when police tell us that this gunman, who has been identified as Michael William Nash, 42 years old from Shelby Township, drove up to the location, got out of his car and opened fire several times, 28 times, reloaded his weapon, continued to fire, and then fled from the scene. He took cover at his mother's house. That's where police say they found him dead from a self-inflicted wound, along with more weapons they believe might have been used in perhaps another attack, another shooting that this gunman might have might have planned.

[17:35:03]

Take a listen to both the sheriff talking about how this shooting could have been a lot worse and a witness who heard the gunshots when they rang out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: We were sitting out on the patio and we heard like -- we heard -- we thought it was firecrackers. And it was -- I guess it was gunshots because we -- because we heard people screaming, like, help us, help us.

SHERIFF MICHAEL BOUCHARD, OAKLAND COUNTY, MI: I believe that because we had quick containment on him, that if he had planned to do anything else, it wouldn't surprise me because having that on the kitchen table is not an everyday activity, that there was probably something else, a second chapter potentially.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Now, Omar, you were mentioning about the different shootings that have happened around the weekend. You're seeing there an image of that other weapon, military-style weapon that was found inside the house by police. This is the 13th mass shooting so far just this weekend alone. That is, according to the Gun Violence Archive, which tracked these kinds of incidents and just shows how this continues to be such a problem in so many different communities across the country. Omar?

JIMENEZ: It definitely is. And just to see the amount of mass shootings this weekend alone, any mass shooting, any type of shooting, of course, is of concern. Gloria Pazmino, really appreciate the reporting. Thank you.

Still ahead, a full circle moment. More than eight decades in the making. Opal Lee, the grandmother of Juneteenth, gets the keys to a new house, decades after a racist mob forced her family to flee. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

(APPLAUSE)

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[17:40:00]

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JIMENEZ: Ninety-seven-year-old Opal Lee, known as the grandmother of Juneteenth, celebrating a historic moment in Fort Worth, Texas. Lee reclaimed her family's land 85 years after racist rioters burned down the family home in 1939.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: This home has been built with a lot of love and care and compassion, and we want you to go enjoy it for many years, your brand- new home.

(APPLAUSE)

Congratulations.

OPAL LEE, GRANDMOTHER OF JUNETEENTH: Just know I love every one of you and I'm your grandmother, sometimes by another mother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

JIMENEZ: Grandmother, sometimes by another mother. That feels right. Lee was 12 years old, though, when she was forced to flee Habitat for Humanity and several other organizations refurbished the house in that celebratory moment. Incredible.

All right, President Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, declaring all people held to slaves to be free. And Juneteenth represents June 19th, 1865, when the final slaves were notified about the new law. But even then, that didn't end slavery in the United States. It wasn't until December 1865 that Georgia became the 27th and last state to ratify the 13th Amendment, meeting the necessary number of states for the U.S. to officially abolish slavery.

I spoke to one man who says his father was born in Georgia before slavery was officially abolished as he journeyed back to where his dad was born.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILBUR B. BELL, SEARCHING FOR FAMILY HISTORY: This is my father. He represents memories.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): In this northern Florida graveyard, Wilbur Bell is visiting his dad, Cornelius Bell. Etched in the gravestone, it says, born in May 1865, which would mean his father was born before slavery was outlawed in the United States. His father was 75 when Wilbur was born. Now, only he and his sister are still alive.

BELL: As we speak today, we might be the only people in the United States who really can say that their parent or parents were born in slavery.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): So, he's retracing that history, going back to where his father was born. Homerville, Georgia, a town of a little over 2000, at 83 years old, Wilbur Bell had never been until now, walking alongside his nephew and daughter reflecting.

BELL: I remember talking to my father and he was a -- he was a hard worker. He was a farmer and I guess he was a businessman also.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): And while slavery may be a tie to their history, their mission in this journey is family. They went to the town's genealogy library.

UNKNOWN: That doesn't happen very often.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Hoping to find more.

UNKNOWN: My dad passed last year. When he passed, there was one less person that could say what my uncle can say. It's kind of hitting me right now. I'm trying to pull myself together.

UNKNOWN: Right, right.

UNKNOWN: You know what I'm saying? (Ph)

JIMENEZ (voice-over): They looked through a lot of the library's records, history, names of previous Bells in the area from around the time his father would have lived there.

BELL: There's some name correlation. Like there's a Wilburn Bell and here I'm a Wilbur Bell, so they forgot to put the "N" on my name.

(LAUGHTER)

[17:45:00]

That's it.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Bell shared with us a copy of the 1940 census showing his father. Then this picture of his dad, believed to be from 1939. And while they didn't find everything they were looking for at the library, just to see the town where his father was born was discovery enough, especially ahead of Juneteenth, which commemorates the end of slavery in the United States. He's happy the country now recognizes the day officially.

BELL: With the pushback on history and what the country has been going through for the past, I guess, eight years, Juneteenth was a new day for Black people, a new day for the country because it brought people closer together.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): His nephew doesn't just want to commemorate the past. He at times wants freedom from it.

VINCENT BELL, NEWPHEW OF WILBUR BELL: I wish we just stopped talking about slavery. We can't do anything about it. It was a horrible thing. And to some extent, perhaps we still -- we still feel the effects of that. But we can't grow, we can't move forward if we don't let it go.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Wilbur Bell tends to agree.

BELL: It's about moving forward.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): But he also needed to honor his past, not just visiting where his dad was born, but in that a direct link to a time many thought was generations in America's past for everyone.

BELL: I'm one generation out of state.

V. BELL: I'm two.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): And getting closer to his dad in the process.

BELL: My father was Cornelius Bell. He was a survivor.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ: They were incredible to spend the day with. Now, look, a CNN review of federal census records from 1940 and 1950, along with his gravestone and obituary support that Bell's father was actually born in 1865. But census records from 1930 show him as being born after 1865, which is really part of what has been known as a challenging record keeping dynamic when it comes to census records, especially between 1790 and 1940, according to the National Archives, and especially so for Black people.

And a programming note, this Wednesday, CNN will air a special program celebrating Juneteenth. You can watch "Juneteenth Celebrating Freedom and Legacy" at 10 p.m., Wednesday, right here on CNN, and you can stream it on CNN Max. We'll be right back.

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[17:50:00]

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JIMENEZ: The geopolitics of the Cold War played out on a global stage, but what many people don't know about is the involvement of the secret agents behind the scenes. The CNN Original Series "Secrets and Spies: A Nuclear Game" takes a closer look.

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OLEG GORDIEVSKY, FORMER COLONEL OF KBG (voice-over): I felt it was a trap. But maybe I'm wrong. After 11 years of my secret work for the British, maybe I developed paranoia.

ALEXANDER VASSILIEV, JOURNALIST: The danger could come from different directions. The weakest link in espionage is the meeting between the operative and his agent. He could have been spotted by a Soviet fellow officer. There could be an MI6 officer working for the KGB who could betray Gordievsky.

GORDIEVSKY (voice-over): I was saying to myself, do have patience, do endure. You are in a unique position to help the West. But I felt instinctively that my time was running out.

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JIMENEZ: Joining us now is CNN presidential historian and senior research scholar at Columbia's School of International and Public Affairs, Tim Naftali. So, Tim, you also got your start as a specialist on intelligence history. I'm just curious, from your perspective, what was the biggest lesson learned from the 1980s and double agents?

TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, one of the biggest lessons was that human agents can matter in a big way. Oleg Gordievsky played a very important role in helping the West move back from the precipice of an accidental nuclear war with the Soviet Union. And agents can also ruin things. Aldrich Ames in the CIA and Robert Hanssen in the FBI both undermined the United States and by extension, the West's ability to learn more about what was happening in the Kremlin.

In the 1980s, there's a big change in the Kremlin. Mikhail Gorbachev comes on the scene and it took the United States a little too long to understand that Mikhail Gorbachev really wanted to end the Cold War.

JIMENEZ: Yeah. And look, obviously, the relationship between espionage and administrations is a key one over the past decades. And so, how do you see the use of espionage and spy tactics change throughout different presidential administrations?

NAFTALI: Well, the game doesn't change, the targets change.

JIMENEZ: Hmm.

NAFTALI: Presidents care about intelligence. Every president, including Roosevelt and from Franklin Roosevelt on, has used intelligence to the extent they can to determine the intentions and the capabilities of adversaries and indeed of some of our friends.

[17:55:04] So, presidents care about the information they get. The information can come from all kinds of sources, occasionally comes from human agents. That's what we call espionage. In the 1980s, espionage played an unusually important role in helping the West, in this case, Great Britain and the United States, understand the Soviet Union.

JIMENEZ: Yeah. Now, it's fascinating stuff. I think a lot of what you're talking about is going to play out, obviously, in -- in this new episode of the Original Series. Tim -- Tim Naftali, really appreciate you taking the time. For everyone else, the new episode of the Original Series, "Secrets and Spies," airs tonight, 10 p.m., only on CNN.

And we're right on top of all of the breaking news for you tonight as well, including the dangerous wildfire rapidly growing just about an hour north of Los Angeles. We're going to take you there live. Stay with us. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

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