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New CNN Reporting on Debate Preps With Two Days to Go; Julian Assange Avoids U.S. Prison Time in Plea Deal; Graphic New Video Shows Three Hostages Bloodied on Oct. 7. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired June 25, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

Two days, two candidates, one historic debate. Primetime Thursday, a sitting president takes on his predecessor. Of course, the question for voters, should President Biden or Donald Trump lead the nation for the next four years. Behind closed doors, President Biden is huddling with advisers at Camp David. Sources tell CNN that several top Democrats are warning that a shift in messaging is essential at this point, and that Biden needs to talk less about his policy record and go directly after Donald Trump. Of course, that's according to some of the sources we're talking to.

For his part, Trump's debate prep appears to include posting on his Truth Social account, consider this rant that says, quote, drug test for crooked Joe Biden. I would also immediately agree to one. That's from the former president, end quote. It's the latest bizarre and baseless suggestion from Trump and his allies that Biden will need some sort of performance enhancing drugs for the CNN showdown.

We're covering both campaigns this morning with CNN's Kristen Holmes and Kevin Liptak. Kevin, let's begin with you. There's a new ad from the Biden campaign. What's it say?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, I think it does give you kind of a preview of the economic message that they're going to focus on the debate. Because, as you mentioned, and as is typical, the president and his team are getting a lot of incoming from Democrats. They're concerned about the president trying to take too much credit for his economic record. Remember, this is the whole Bidenomics approach that they've tried to adopt over the last year. And the issue that they're running into is that it hasn't necessarily sunk in with voters, despite the record job gains, despite economic growth, many Americans just don't feel all that strong about the economy.

And the concern is that President Biden, as would be natural, wants to take credit for some of these gains. But these Democrats who are talking to the campaign really want him to go on the offensive, avoid taking a victory lap and really try and ramp up the contrast with former President Trump and what he says are policies that would be inflationary, things like broad based tariffs, things like lowering the corporate tax rate. We did get a little preview of how they might frame this in an ad that they put out today. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump loves to attack Joe Biden.

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Joe Biden.

Joe Biden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because he's focused on revenge and he has no plan to help the middle class. He'd just give more tax cuts to the wealthy. Joe Biden is working every day to make your life more affordable. Donald Trump is only out for himself. Joe Biden is fighting for your family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: So you can see kind of the framing that they're going to use. There was actually a statement from one of the Biden campaign folks this morning that went even a little further. He said that Trump was a white collar crook who's only in it for themselves. And you can see them kind of sort of tying the former president's legal issues with his economic plans, all of these attacks that they're trying to hone up at Camp David as they continue their prep.

ACOSTA: All right, very interesting. And, Kristen Holmes, you're also with us. Trump apparently is back in Mar-a-Lago this morning. You're told that he's going to hold more of what the team is calling policy sessions ahead of the debate. What more can you tell us?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he's going to be hunkered down for the next two and a half days. He's having phone calls with allies, talking to senior advisers, going over the policies that they hope that he is going to be focused on, on Thursday. That includes the economy for some of the reasons that Kevin laid out, that the American people tend to favor Donald Trump when it comes to talking about the economy. They also want him to focus on immigration. They believe this is a key issue for Americans across the country, and, again, it is something that Donald Trump pulls ahead of Joe Biden in.

But this is really not your typical kind of drilling when it comes to debate prep. There is no one sitting there playing President Joe Biden. There is no one sitting there playing the moderators, Jake or Dana. Instead, it is really just conversations about what exactly Donald Trump should answer for, for some of the questions that might be particularly hard.

Now, Trump yesterday did an interview in which he said some of his answering of questions counts as debate prep. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: How are you preparing? I'm preparing by taking questions from you and others, if you think about it. But I'm preparing by dealing with you. You're tougher than all of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, he has been taking questions, various interviews, they said an interview with Sean Hannity, an interview with Dr. Phil, that podcast interview, all part of this preparation. But I will note that most of these interviews were friendly interviews. They also said that various events where he took questions from the audience was part of debate prep. Again, these were friendly audience members, people who support the former president. But this is how he is preparing.

But one thing I want to note, Jim, what we have really seen in the last 48 hours is a leveling of expectations. You have heard from former President Trump really saying that Biden is incompetent, that he can't form a sentence. Well, now you're starting to hear his team dial that back. We heard J.D. Vance yesterday talking about how the bar was set too low for Biden.

[10:05:02]

We heard Doug Burgum over the weekend saying that Biden was a formidable opponent, that he'd been debating forever. This is quite a different tune than what the former president has been saying, but it gives you some insight into where his team and allies' minds are at heading into Thursday.

ACOSTA: All right. Kristen Holmes and Kevin Liptak, guys, thank you very much.

Joining me now is President Clinton's former director of speech writing, Michael Waldman. He's written nearly 2, 000 speeches, including four State of the Unions, prepared President Clinton for the 1996 debates. He's the author of the Supermajority, How the Supreme Court is Dividing America. Michael, thanks so much for being with us.

You know, it has been the case in the past that incumbents sometimes perform poorly during their first debate. What do you think? I mean, obviously, you heard Kevin and Kristen there a few moments ago talking about all these expectations and where the bar is being set. The Trump team first might have been setting the bar too low for Joe Biden, and now they're conscious of that. Where do you see things heading into this debate?

MICHAEL WALDMAN, DIRECTOR OF SPEECHWRITING FOR PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, it's definitely true that almost every incumbent president has lost the first debate. They're rusty. They're surrounded by people who tell them everything they say is brilliant. When they walk in a room, a Marine band plays Hail to the Chief, they're often just not ready to hear their policies or administration criticized face-to-face. Bill Clinton knew about this jinx. He practiced very hard and prepared very hard and did better. I think it seems like President Biden is doing the same thing up at Camp David. It helps to be away from all the friendly advisors who have lots of advice. I think both Biden and Trump, of course, they're both old. They both have expectations they can surpass. Trump can surpass expectations by just not being the way he was last time. I think where, where they will do well, either of them, is in talking about the future and what they want and the contrast on policy, less on kind of the theatrics of it.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Michael, I mean, what do you make of the way both candidates are preparing right now, both the president and the former president? It sounds like Joe Biden may be talking about or doing what you were just talking about a few moments ago, sort of preparing for this debate the way Bill Clinton did in 1996. And Donald Trump is not doing as much debate prep. He's doing a lot of friendly interviews. What do you make of that contrast there?

WALDMAN: You know, it's like a heavyweight bout. They're each doing their thing. I would also take it all with a bit of a grain of salt. You know, some of the questions that people care about, of course, immigration, the economy, I think the public this year also cares a great deal about the health of democracy. And that's going to be a challenge for Joe Biden, who said that this is a major issue for him to raise this. It's also something that Trump has things to say about, and I think it's also something I would encourage the CNN moderators not to rush past that issue, because I think this year it's really something people care about and polls show it's a very high concern.

ACOSTA: It absolutely is. And, Michael, CNN has some reporting that outside advisers are urging the president to focus on Trump rather than his first term record. What do you make of that piece of reporting there? And, I mean, Biden is famously known for trusting a very small group of very much inside advisers, not outside advisers. What do you think?

WALDMAN: And it's some of the same people who actually worked with Bill Clinton. You know, I think presidents want to talk about what they see is the success of their record. I think Democrats in particular get a lot of advice from the outside saying, don't brag about your performance in the economy. It'll seem like you're out of touch, like you don't feel people's pain. I don't know that a debate is necessarily the best place to do it. I think that the contrast with the opponent and, again, both for Biden and I would guess for Trump too. What is it that they plan to do in the four years ahead? That's what people need to imagine with these two candidates who are much older than candidates have ever been.

ACOSTA: And, Michael, I'm sure you've been listening to some of this fodder going back and forth after months of painting Biden as senile and not -- kind of lost his step and so on. Trump and his surrogates are now saying that he's going to be a worthy opponent. They're even suggesting that he may be getting some kinds of enhancements. Obviously, there's no proof of that, but they're just saying it anyway. What do you make of all that?

WALDMAN: Yes. I mean, this is the kind of challenge, I think, in fact checking because it's nutty. It's just an absurd statement and left out there. [10:10:02]

It can be take on a patina of some legitimacy. I mean, the interesting thing is, as we remember, Biden, President Biden did very well in the State of the Union, surprised people. He showed great deal of vigor.

I think debates are different. They're more intimate setting. Biden thrived in the give and take of the room in Congress. Trump thrives in the give and take of his rallies. At least he displays a more distinctive persona.

You know, Trump has expectation issues too, that he will very possibly be trying to surpass by not being as bombastic as he was four years ago. Remember, he had COVID, it turned out, he was interrupting. I think the fact that the microphones are going to get turned off actually could help him.

ACOSTA: Yes, it might. You're absolutely right about that. All right, Michael Waldman, great to talk to you as always. Thanks so much. I really appreciate it.

And don't miss President Biden and former President Trump debate this Thursday, June 27th at 9:00 P.M. Eastern right here on CNN.

Coming up, he's accused of one of the largest classified breaches in U.S. history. Now, Julian Assange could be a free man soon. We'll bring you details of that deal next.

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[10:15:00]

ACOSTA: Happening right now, the United Nations Security Council is meeting about the war in Gaza. This is happening as we're getting new video of the Hamas atrocities committed on October 7th. We want to warn you, the video is graphic. It shows three men covered in blood being kidnapped by Hamas from the Nova Music Festival. The group that released this video says it is trying to ratchet up pressure on Israel, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in calling any suggestion of a ceasefire without releasing hostages, quote, an unprecedented national failure.

Barak Ravid joins us now. He's a CNN Political and Global Affairs Analyst and Political and Foreign Policy Reporter for Axios. He's been following the situation obviously very closely.

Barak, what about this video? What's the reaction been in Israel?

Barak, are you there? Barak Ravid, can you hear me?

All right, we're going to get back to Barak in just a moment.

In the meantime, Julian Assange is almost a free man. The WikiLeaks founder is on his way to his home country of Australia after accepting a plea deal that will let him avoid prison time in the U.S. This is just the latest twist in a nearly 15-year long saga involving one of the biggest breaches of U.S. classified material in history.

CNN's Katie Bo Lillis is following the developments. Katie Bo, you're in the studio with me. Good thing. What's the reaction been to this deal?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: Yes, I mean, Jim, look, this is maybe the last chapter and what has been a for some intelligence officials, a deeply personal saga that has gone on for more than a decade, as you pointed out. Of course, in 2010, when Julian Assange's WikiLeaks first began publishing what prosecutors said was reams of classified data that he had goaded then Private Chelsea Manning, an intelligence army intelligence specialist, into illegally taking and then providing him to publish.

The concern, of course, was that this was going to expose sources and methods, right, the crown jewels for the intelligence community, how they obtain information. And in particular, officials were really worried that this was going to endanger the lives of people in Iraq and Afghanistan who were working with the U.S. military, who were working with the U.S. intelligence community. It also was right off the bat, an incredibly controversial case, as I'm sure you remember, because there were, of course, people who believed that Julian Assange and WikiLeaks should be afforded the same First Amendment protections that you or I do. And, in fact, there were revelations that came out of some of those documents that were newsworthy, including information about a U.S. helicopter attack, a military helicopter attack in Iraq that killed civilians, right? So, right off the bat, hugely, hugely controversial case.

The U.S. intelligence community did do a damage assessment here. They ultimately came to believe that their worst fears had not been realized about the damage that might have been done, particularly to the lives of human assets. But it remained to really important for U.S. officials to try to come up with some kind of deterrence here, right? Like they didn't want another WikiLeaks copycat toe to try to come to the fore here. Obama administration, the DOJ Obviously didn't move to charge him. The Trump administration in 2019 did. We are told that for Justice Department officials, it was really important to get to this guilty plea for felony, right, particularly related to the Espionage Act.

So, what this deal does is it is essentially going to allow Assange to avoid further jail time, right? It's essentially going to credit him with the time he spent in the U.K. jail, but it gets the Justice Department what it wanted, which is a felony charge, assuming a judge, a federal judge approves it on Wednesday.

ACOSTA: And can you tell us a little bit about his travels back to Australia and what that's going to involve, the final, I guess, step in this legal process saga for him?

LILLIS: Yes, exactly right. So, he's already left the U.K., and he is traveling first to a commonwealth, a U.S. commonwealth and an island that is not terribly far from Australia, although many, just about everything is far from Australia. But there is a U.S. federal court there. This is in part, we were told, because of his reluctance to set foot on the continental U.S., on U. S. soil. And so he will he will have his sentencing hearing in front of in front of a judge there, assuming that that federal judge approves this deal, then he will be allowed to travel on to Australia and resume his life as a free man.

ACOSTA: Fascinating. All right, we'll be watching all of that. Katie Bo Lillis, thank you very much.

Let's go back to the war in Gaza. New video of the October 7th attacks. Barak Ravid is back with us.

[10:20:00]

We got you this time, Barak. This video we were just talking about a few moments ago when we lost our connection with you, what's the reaction been to this video in Israel? It is very disturbing.

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes. I think the main reason what's called the, the Hostage Family Headquarters, this is the NGO that represents most of the hostage families. I think the reason that they decided to release this video, which the families themselves got something like a week ago, was that they felt that they needed to keep on the pressure on the government to push forward for a deal.

And I think it was even more important in the current timing when you saw how in recent days Prime Minister Netanyahu walked back the Israeli proposal for a hostage deal only to walk back his walk back a day later under pressure from the Biden administration and from families of hostages. So, I think this was one of the main reason we saw this video yesterday, to make sure that the government is still committed to this hostage deal proposal.

ACOSTA: Yes. And Netanyahu is backtracking after he appeared dismissive of that latest proposal for a ceasefire and release of hostages. What are you hearing from your sources about this?

RAVID: I think people both in the Biden administration and in the Israeli negotiations team were stunned on Sunday, when he gave, I don't know if we can call it an interview when he participated in a talk show on channel 14, which is his own mouthpiece. He basically said that he only wants a partial hostage deal that will lead to the release of only some of the hostages, which is not what the Israeli war cabinet approved.

The Israeli war cabinet approved a three-phase deal that will lead to the release of all hostages in several stages and to sustainable calm in Gaza. And Netanyahu in that talk show seem to be walking it back and withdrawing this proposal and a day later, you know, he needed to reiterate in a speech in the Knesset that he is still committed to this proposal.

But Israeli officials told me that this, you know, this dismissal by Netanyahu, this initial dismissal by Netanyahu, the proposal created a lot of damage because it basically sent the message to Hamas and to the rest of the world that Israel was not genuine in its proposal.

ACOSTA: And, Barak, the U.N. Security Council's meeting on Gaza, do we expect anything to come out of that?

It's a regular, monthly meeting that Security Council does in the Middle East. Part of it today is, you know, to give a report about a situation in the West Bank. Obviously, Gaza will also be covered, but it's not that there's any resolution on the table to be voted on.

ACOSTA: All right. Barak Ravid, thanks a lot. I appreciate it.

We're following breaking news out of Kenya right now where anti-tax protesters have turned violent in that country. Smoke is billowing out of the parliament building. You can see right there on your screen in the capital city of Nairobi, as protesters stormed in. You can see a lot of protesters right there. CNN has witnessed police firing live rounds at the protesters in the street.

CNN's Larry Madowo spoke with former President Barack Obama's half sister as tear gas filled the streets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AUMA OBAMA, HALF-SISTER OF FORMER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I'm here because look at what's happening. Young Kenyans are demonstrating for their rights. They're demonstrating with flags and banners. I can't even see anymore. They're being tear gassed. They're being tear gassed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And this is a developing story. We'll bring you the latest information as it comes in. Please stay tuned for that.

Coming up, watching and waiting for the nation's highest court to weigh in on presidential immunity, how this could impact Donald Trump's outstanding federal cases. That's next.

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[10:25:00]

ACOSTA: Right now, crunch time at the Supreme Court. Justices are racing to the finish line and deciding some monumental cases. The biggest one is Donald Trump immune to criminal charges as a former president.

CNN's Joan Biskupic joins me now. Joan, the timing of this ruling is going to be critical. It could come as soon as tomorrow right before this big debate.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: That's right. We don't know how they're going to roll exactly, and we actually don't know how many days it's going to take them to finish up. We know they'll be in tomorrow, Wednesday and Thursday, the day of the big debate, and Friday, and we don't know if they'll go into the following Monday and maybe even Tuesday.

You know, those are just the suspense that the Supreme Court couldn't be higher and especially couldn't be higher on this case involving Donald Trump and whether he would be immune from criminal prosecution for charges that Special Counsel Jack Smith brought on behalf of the Department of Justice, the American people back in August.

And let's just remind people what's going on with that case. It was back on August 1st of last year that Jack Smith brought four charges. They're related to fraud and deceit. One includes an allegation of corruptly obstructing an official proceeding, you know, on January 6, 2021. And that's a charge that's at the heart of another pending case that involves other January 6 defendants.

But Donald Trump immediately claimed that he should be immune from these charges on December 1st of 2023. A trial judge, Tanya Chutkan, said no way. Then Jack Smith, knowing that this was an issue that could go to the Supreme Court and would need resolution by the high court, implored the justices in December to take up the case.

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The justices said no.