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Supreme Court Allows Medical Emergency Abortions in Idaho; Biden and Trump Presidential Debate. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 27, 2024 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Because in many instances, I was talking with Elizabeth Sepper of the University of Texas at Austin School of Law, and she was saying a lot of those states that have health exceptions, those exceptions are narrower than what the EMTALA federal law would state.

And so, there's. It's still going to be a lot of confusion in other states, particularly in Texas, where the Biden administration has asked the Supreme Court to look at their abortion ban. And so, we are potentially going to see this come back. But what a lot of folks have been pointing out today is that on both of the abortion cases before the court this term, mifepristone, the abortion pill, they dismissed that based on standing. They didn't consider the merits of that case.

Now, with this emergency abortion case, sending it back down to the lower courts. So, there is a thought that this pushes this off until after the election, potentially when, depending on who wins, this could come back in myriad ways, either through the courts or through other methods.

And so, this doesn't really settle any of these cases about abortion through the courts. This just sort of says that the courts aren't going to really issue decisions on the merits right now. Guys.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Very interesting, Meg. All right. Thank you very much. I want to go back out to Pamela Brown outside the Supreme Court. Pam, we're playing a little Supreme Court whack a mole today. That's why we've got so many of us here covering this. We thought we were going to cover a debate today, but we're covering all the action coming out of the Supreme Court. What's the latest? What can you tell us?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: That's right. Big news day to say the least. And in fact, Jim, we still have six outstanding cases, two cases with direct implications for Donald Trump. I want to bring in Paula Reid on that front. When are we going to get these cases?

PAULA REID, CN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's been the big question, right? They still have six outstanding cases, but the court has just announced that they will not be done tomorrow. So, it is expected that opinion season will go into next week. We would expect that we would likely get the six opinions over tomorrow and Monday. But look, these folks have lifetime appointments. They have no bosses. They do whatever they want. And clearly, they're just like us, they're procrastinating a little because the expectation was that they would release all their major opinions by tomorrow, but it looks like that's not the case.

BROWN: Usually, they do.

REID: Yes.

BROWN: I mean, historically, usually it's -- it would be over by tomorrow.

REID: Yes.

BROWN: Should we be reading into this, especially given the high stakes case with immunity, for example?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: The only thing I would read into it is they're having a hard time. I mean, these are major cases and they're working through them. And just to sort of preview what we're still looking for, there's a few biggies.

There's, first of all, immunity. Of course, we've been talking about it. Does the president -- does a former president have any form of criminal immunity? That's, I think, the big one. There's another January 6th related case that's really important. Donald Trump's not a party to this one, but it could impact him. It's a case involving a guy named Joseph Fisher. He stormed the Capitol. He was charged with various crimes, including obstruction of an official proceeding. He's now challenging whether you can apply that law, obstruction of an official proceeding, to a physical effort to interfere with Congress or a court.

You would think it would, but there's a sort of nuanced way you can read the law to say that it does not apply. I think it's quite likely the Supreme Court actually says that obstruction law does not apply to the physical assault on the Capitol, which will have implications for over 300 January 6th related cases and potentially implications for Donald Trump's case because two of the four charges against him are that obstruction charge. So, those are the two biggies that we're looking for.

BROWN: But the interesting note on that is it has to do with the fake slate of electors, right?

HONIG: Yes.

BROWN: And so --

HONIG: The response -- if I was in Jack Smith's position and the ruling came down saying, obstruction does not apply to storming the Capitol, unless there's some documentary element to it, that would be the probable ruling. Jack Smith may think, well, they submitted false slate of electors. Those were fake documents. Therefore, I might be OK under this ruling. So, big decisions ahead. Well, first, we got to see what the Supreme Court says, and then Jack Smith's going to have a tough call, in the sense.

BROWN: Yes. And it'll have it. Yes. Implications as those two big cases directly tried to Trump could have locations on the trials and so forth. So, we're keeping a close eye. But in terms of cases for today, we're done?

REID: Yes, we're done. We've got two boxes of four opinions, six left outstanding. And I want to say the Biden administration is racking up a significant number of wins. Now, the biggest case is still outstanding, but I want to review, over the past few weeks here they won a big gun, trying to keep guns from folks who have either a conviction or a citation for domestic violence. Also, social media case yesterday, they won the fact that they can continue to flag for social media companies, disinformation or misinformation. In Idaho, the Biden administration also winning. And in that Purdue Pharma case, they also won their argument that the Sackler family should not be protected from future liability.

But I want to caution that a lot of these victories are temporary because in abortion, right, they kind of sidestep the issue. They decided it for now in Idaho, but we fully expect that issue will come back up. Same with social media. They also sort of sidestep that issue. Yes, technically, the Biden administration won. They can continue, the Department of Homeland Security, the FBI can continue to flag misinformation, disinformation, but that was mostly a standing issue. So, I would expect that that's going to come back up.

And then, the gun rights case is interesting because there were so many concurrences. Everybody wanted to put their spin that you've really opened the flood gates for additional litigation. So, even though the Biden administration does appear to be doing really well before the court, many of these victories appear to be temporary and these cases are going to emerge likely in a different form in a year or two.

HONIG: One more to the list here. Mifepristone, right? The decision allowing the abortion medication to continue to be distributed and accessed as is. The Biden administration challenged restriction -- or fought against restrictions on that. They won.

[10:35:00]

But again, to your point, Paula, potentially temporary, because the ruling was the challengers in that case did not have standing, meaning they did not have a proper legal basis to bring a suit. So, for now, big win for the Biden administration on mifepristone, on abortion medication. But like many of these other cases could end up winding its way back through the courts and wind up right back over there.

REID: The other big case that everybody talks about Trump immunity, right, the January 6th cases, but a case that could actually change the lives of almost every American, it has to do with agency power, federal agencies and the power that they've had for the past several decades under what is called the Chevron Doctrine, but what I'm seeing here in these other smaller decisions that the justices are issuing related to government power. We saw in the EPA case earlier sort of restricting the power of the Environmental Protection Agency, also restricting some power from the SEC.

So, we expect that that big so-called Chevron case will probably be the last case they release because of its enormous impact. With the Trump immunity case, that's going to be one big one for the ages. Certainly, it will have an impact on future presidents, at least one former president. But this other case about federal power, this could really change the face of American government. And we're already seeing clues that they're already trying to restrict government power and it is widely expected that they might decide that way there, which would basically take a lot of the power from federal agencies and turn it over to the courts, which of course, make courts even more important in American life. And therefore, more important than the election.

BROWN: Yes.

HONIG: This is the ultimate legal nerd decision. All of us having law degrees, I think, can understand that. The first thing you learn is Chevron deference, meaning agencies -- courts generally defer to agencies, whether it's the EPA, OSHA, on down the line. And I think it's quite likely that's about to change.

BROWN: Yes, because you've heard the conservatives also besides the rulings, such as Gorsuch, for example, Justice Gorsuch, expressed skepticism of the power that agencies have and so forth. So, we'll be watching that in these other big cases. Certainly, a big day here on the court and more big days ahead, Jim.

ACOSTA: That's right, Pamela. And I guess what we're also hearing is that the chief justice, John Roberts, did not announce that tomorrow would be the last day. So, it may not be the last day of the term. They may be going into next week. Abby, Paula Reid was just saying a few moments ago, justices, they're just like us. They procrastinate. They also have tech issues as we saw yesterday.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you know, I mean, they also -- but they also can read the news. Yes, I think they understand the political context of this week. They understand that they want -- they don't want to inadvertently get entangled in something that's a pretty major moment, which is that there's a -- there's the one big matchup between the two candidates in the 2024 race.

It doesn't entirely surprise me that they've just decided, OK, if we can push it into the following week, let's just do that and give it a little bit of space.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: They could have done it last week. They didn't have to write this. First of all, there are legal experts to ask, you know, former appellate Judge Luttig. He didn't think they needed to take this case at all. There were a lot of legal experts who felt that way. They could have expedited their decision. They are sitting on this and a lot of legal folks and a lot of political folks are very angry about it because they do want this trial to go forward.

I have to say, when we heard that decisions were going until next week, my first thought was, you can hear Jack Smith's special office staff groaning right now. I mean, they are waiting to hear whether there's anything they can go forward with.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: As we were talking about before, I do think this reflects the turmoil inside the court. If they could have come to -- we all heard the oral arguments on immunity, and we knew that they didn't agree, and, I mean, if you heard Ketanji Brown Jackson and Alito, you knew that there was going to be a problem.

ACOSTA: Yes.

BORGER: And so, you know, whether it's procrastination or whether it is, in fact, disagreement about how to handle this, I mean, not only can they read the newspapers, but they know the importance of this for the history books. And I think that they've been having a lot of trouble this term. And I think the immunity case is the most important thing, the most important one.

PHILLIP: Yes. When I look at the -- just taking all of it into account, it strikes me that this court has been very willing to receive a lot of just bold efforts to change the law from conservatives. They're taking the cases. But when things get tricky is when they're coming down with the rulings. And that's why you've seen the Biden administration win a little bit more than maybe expected because some of the things that are coming to the court, you might not have thought that would come to the court five years ago or 10 years ago.

BORGER: Right.

PHILLIP: They're taking the cases, but the law is not necessarily siding with conservatives. But then in other cases, they're splitting the baby like they did in Iowa -- in Idaho, where they're basically -- I mean, they didn't even have to take that case. They took that case and then they didn't rule on it.

[10:40:00]

And so, you can see this is a court that is torn about the power that they have with a conservative majority, but still not able to get all the way there on some of these really hot button issues.

BORGER: And look at mifepristone, they decided to take the case and then decided that there was no standing for them to take the case. So, they're taking all these things and then saying, well, wait a minute. It doesn't belong here. We shouldn't have, you know, taken mifepristone.

PHILLIP: And you would -- I mean -- and you would think, I mean, what more could a conservative court -- I mean, they've got seven justices. I mean, they've got a strong majority, but on some of these things, the asks of some of these conservative lawyers and groups are -- it seems far beyond what even this court is willing to give.

ACOSTA: What Justice Gorsuch said, you know, about the immunity case, this is one for the ages. It seems like a lot of these decisions are going to have consequences for the ages. And folks are definitely going to disagree as to how it's going to go down.

I do want to take a quick moment to go out to Dr. Chris Pernell, director of the NAACP Center for Health Equity. Dr. Pernell, your reaction to this abortion decision in Idaho. Is this a kick the can kind of moment for the court?

DR. CHRIS T. PERNELL, REGENT AT LARGE, COLLEGE OF PREVENTIVE MEDICINE AND DIRECTOR, NAACP CENTER FOR HEALTH EQUITY: It most certainly is a kick the can kind of moment. While a technical win, this is not a victory for reproductive justice, and it's not a victory for health equity. Why? Because it does not change. It doesn't change the fact that there are maternity care deserts in Idaho and 36 percent of counties across the United States.

So, what that means is that women's health continues to be imperiled. It means that the federal law is imperiled. And as long as that is true, the stats that we know that one in four Native American babies are born under these types of conditions where there is a lack of appropriate care. One in six black babies are born under these conditions where there isn't a lack of appropriate care.

The Supreme Court missed an opportunity. I agree with Justice Jackson, this was a moment for the Supreme Court to decide clearly and compellingly in the favor of the universal rights of all people, especially women, and that didn't happen.

ACOSTA: All right. Dr. Pernell. I also want to bring in Kristan Hawkins. She is the president of Students for Life of America. What's your reaction to this decision?

KRISTAN HAWKINS, PRESIDENT, STUDENT FOR LIFE OF AMERICA: Sure. Well, I think President Trump and the GOP needs to take note the Biden administration continues to make the case to weaponize federal agencies to make abortion a federal issue.

But we also see a silver lining in this decision today. If Idaho -- while this is tragic, saying Idaho must allow for abortions to prevent infertility, future infertility, the FDA must now change its policy too, to do the same, given there are no test online distribution scheme of chemical abortion pills, which we know as 15 percent of women of our population, our administration, their FDA on these dangerous chemical abortion pills. If she's having these pill abortions, she's not being tested for --

ACOSTA: Isn't mifepristone -- haven't the experts said that mifepristone is safe for women to use? But haven't the experts said --

HAWKINS: Ask any woman who is Rh-negative. Ask any woman -- excuse me. Ask someone who's been pregnant, sir. When you're pregnant, one of the first things they do is they test for Rh-negative status. Because if you have a miscarriage, if you give birth, if you get an accident --

ACOSTA: No. Ms. Hawkins, I have to --

HAWKINS: -- if you have an abortion, you have to be treated immediately.

ACOSTA: I'm sorry. Mifepristone has been proven to be safe. It's been that way for years. But thank you for coming on. We appreciate it.

HAWKINS: No, it actually hasn't and we know --

ACOSTA: We want to go to a quick break. Thank you very much. We'll be right back.

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[10:45:00]

ACOSTA: Welcome back. We're just hours away from what could be a major turning point in the 2024 race, and the most important presidential debate in American history. You're getting a live look right now at the stage where tonight Joe Biden and Donald Trump will make the case for why they should be, once again, the most powerful man on earth.

The stakes, of course, could not be higher as the oldest presidential candidates in U.S. history look to shake up a deadlock race that's been neck and neck for months. We're learning more this morning about how they're preparing for this historic showdown and we're covering it from all angles.

CNN, Jeff Zeleny is live outside the CNN headquarters here. Jeff, you're inside, you're outside, you're everywhere. Let's talk about tonight. It's been a little while, it's been -- since 2020 since they last squared off. Give us a sense of what we're going to see tonight and how things might be different.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, the characters are the same, but this is hardly a perfect sequel. I mean, so much has changed.

Let's start with the Supreme Court. The campaigns are watching these rulings just as we are this morning. And the Biden campaign is reacting to the abortion ruling, using this as an example of what they say the stakes in the election are. Now, this is one thing that certainly will be a conversation of the abortion rights conversation, it was not nearly as overwhelming of a topic in the debates four years ago.

Just one example, of course, immigration has changed. Inflation also has changed. So, look for President Biden to try and draw this contrast with Former President Donald Trump. I'm told to try and remind voters what his administration was like and tell them, define what a second term would be.

[10:50:00] But Jim, the biggest difference overall, Biden's record now is front and center in the pocketbooks of Americans in the thinking in just how they view their lives. So, that age old question, are you better off now than you were four years ago? It's a complicated one to answer, actually. But that is what sort of frames the discussion here tonight.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Jeff, specifically what voters are -- both candidates are trying to reach tonight, which voters are they -- I mean, I suppose it's those so-called double haters, it's those few remaining undecideds who probably could fit inside that arena behind you. Who are they trying to reach?

ZELENY: Look, I mean, one thing that the Biden campaign is quite blunt about say that they're trying to reach people who voted for Joe Biden last time. They're trying to reach Democrats and progressives to try and get them a little more enthusiastic about the fact that President Biden, he may not be perfect in their minds, but he is the choice, and they're trying to draw that contrast with Donald Trump. But talking to voters here, including some Republicans, they say that Former President Donald Trump also has some work to do to earn the votes of Republicans and the moderates.

So, the by and large is, Jim, there are some undecided voters, very few perhaps, but it's those voters in the middle, the voters in the suburbs who may not like how their economic situation is, but they may not want to revert back to the previous administration. It's that balance here that the moderate voters, those suburban voters are so key in this election. Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes. Still a lot of gettable voters out there. All right. Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much. And thanks for the ride in this morning. Jeff had to give me a ride. I wasn't dropped off right where I should have been. So, Jeff --

ZELENY: You bet. Anytime.

ACOSTA: Jeff, let me -- maybe miss the old campaign days being out there together, Jeff. Thanks so much. All right.

While the candidates still have hours before they come face to face on CNN's debate stage, this morning, they are already lobbying some pretty searing attacks. The Trump campaign is launching its first major ad blitz of the 2024 election, taking aim at President Biden's mental fitness and the Democratic National Committee is out in full force here in Atlanta.

Take a look at this with a series of billboards attacking Trump over his criminal record. There's one of them right there. I saw one coming in from the airport last night. CNN's Alayna Treene is following the Trump campaign and CNN's Kayla Tausche is following President Biden. Alayna, let me go to you first.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Right. Well, I mean, you're exactly right, Jim, with talking about these ad blitzes. It's very clear that both campaigns are trying to capitalize as much as possible on the debate and all of the eyes that will be watching both of these men take the stage tonight. Listen to this ad from Donald Trump's campaign. I find it very interesting in part because we really haven't seen many of Donald Trump's -- or many ads from Trump's campaign specifically, really, since he became the presumptive Republican nominee earlier this year. Take a listen to what this ad says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you think about the Joe Biden you saw in the debate, ask yourself a question, do you think the guy who was defeated by the stairs got taken down by his bike, lost a fight with his jacket, and regularly gets lost, makes it four more years in the White House? And you know who's waiting behind him, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, Jim, what's clear here is what I find very interesting as well, is that this is very different from how the Trump campaign has been trying to frame how they think Biden will perform on the debate stage today. This is more in keeping in their rhetoric over the past several months, painting Joe Biden as this weak and feeble candidate. However, they're trying to use these ads to do that criticism for him, even though tonight they're trying to raise those expectations and raise the bar for how they think Biden will perform. Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes, Alayna, it's almost as if the ad folks aren't talking to the political folks because in recent days, even the former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, they've been trying to paint Biden as Rocky Balboa on the debate stage, which is obviously, you know, 180 from where they have been. All right. Alayna, thanks.

And let me go to Kayla Tausche. She's following President Biden. Kayla, how are the Biden folks going to handle this and respond to this tonight, do you think?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly they're going to have to take it under advisement. They are prepared to come out swinging on the topics that Trump's campaign has previewed that they plan to use as their tentpole topics, as Alayna was just alluding to.

We know that President Biden is going to specifically home in on what happened on January 6th and to try to frame that moment as a watershed for the American people. In the same way, I'm told by sources as the Biden campaign believes that the 2004 election, the first election after 9/11, became a referendum of sorts on George Bush's foreign policy in the Middle East, the way that the 2008 election sat at the height of the financial crisis. And that too was a decision that voters made at that time based on that singular issue.

President Biden wants to make this election about democracy, about January 6th, and I'm expecting, based on my conversations with sources, that that is how he's going to frame it. We expect him to arrive here in Atlanta momentarily. And those final preparations will be underway. Jim. ACOSTA: All right. Kayla and Alayna, thanks so much. I'm sure you're going to be very busy tonight in that spin room. You're going to have a lot of fun. Break a leg. Enjoy. Thanks so much.

[10:55:00]

And you can catch this historic presidential debate tonight at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN and on Max. You can watch it there as well.

And this was a fast-moving hour. Thanks very much for joining us this morning. I'm Jim Acosta in Atlanta. Our next hour of "Newsroom with Wolf Blitzer" starts after a short break. Have a great day, everybody. Enjoy.

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