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CNN International: Biden Struggles As Trump Spews Falsehoods At CNN Debate; The World Reacts To Performances By Biden And Trump. Aired 3:40-4p ET

Aired June 28, 2024 - 15:40   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE)

[15:40:36]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Good afternoon. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

You've been watching last night's historic presidential debate that has left many in the present -- Democratic Party scrambling. President Joe Biden stumbled while trying to make his points on key policy issues, struggled to answer the former president's onslaught of attacks and falsehoods.

His performance set off alarm bells within the Democratic Party. His team, however, is rejecting any calls for the president to drop out of the race.

The Democrats were in damage control immediately after the debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The contrast is cleared. Look at what happened during the course of the debate, Donald Trump lied over and over and over again.

MITCH LANDRIEU, NATIONAL BIDEN CAMPAIGN CO-CHAIR: The president might have lost the debate on style, but he won it on facts, he won it on decency, and he won it on the ideas that people think are important in the country.

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): Joe Biden had a bad debate night, but Donald Trump was a bad president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Both candidates returned to the campaign trail today. Trump is moments away from speaking at a rally in Virginia, Biden traveled in North Carolina to course correct.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know how to do this job.

(CHEERS)

I know how to get things done.

(CHEERS)

And I know what millions of Americans know -- when you get knocked down, you get back up.

(CHEERS)

Folks, I gave my words as a Biden I would not be running again if I didn't believe with all my heart and soul, I can do this job because quite frankly --

(CHEERS)

The stakes are too high.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Certainly different Biden than we saw last night at that rally today.

Here to break down the debate, what happens next, "USA Today" White House correspondent Francesca Chambers, Shelby Talcott reporter for "Semafor" and Evan Osnos, CNN contributor and author of "Joe Biden: The Life, The Run and What Matters Now".

Evan, I'm going to start with you because you spent so much time with the president and those around him. Is there any serious consideration inside what is quite a tight camp for the president of him stepping aside, or is that all just Twitter talk?

EVAN OSNOS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I've been doing what a reporter does, Jim, which is trying to talk to as many people as I can today and I will tell you that for now, there are no signs of that. There are no signs of as one person put it to me, erosion at the top, meaning people beginning to say this is untenable but there is a lot of distress everywhere else in the Democratic Party. I don't think there's any way -- any other way to put it.

People are in full panic mode, as they have been since last night. I was -- I was struck, the quote, you just played is really telling because last night after the debate, I was thinking about what he was going to draw and the answer is exactly the lines use today, which is I do what Americans know, which is when you get knocked down, you pick yourself back up.

And that is a double-edged idea right now because (INAUDIBLE) we don't need resilience. We need strategy. I think its going to be under some pressure to say that there's more to this than grit and will. But that's what the next few hours and days go on.

SCIUTTO: Shelby, I'm sure you've been speaking to sources today and I know you were there at the debate last night. How do those around President Biden and others in the Democratic Party explain last night's performance? There was an enormous amount of preparation in advance.

And by the way, we saw quite a different Biden at the rally today than we saw last night, granted different formats, reading off a prompter as opposed to debate with a crowd president, as opposed to in a silent room.

SHELBY TALCOTT, REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Yeah, what we really haven't seen from Democrats supporting Joe Biden is an outright defense of his debate performance. As we just heard, it is more about well, yeah, sure, maybe he had a bad night. He had a slow start, but look at what Donald Trump was saying.

And so that's what I heard on the spin room floor after the debate last night. And what was interesting was it took Joe Biden surrogates a little time to get out there. And when they got out there, they came as a group and they were together as opposed to Donald Trump's team who showed up right away and was sort of spread out and talking to reporters for a long time.

They came in late they came in with one message and then were focused on more about how Donald Trump performed and his comments than a defense of Joe Biden's performance.

SCIUTTO: Just an hour ago, former President Obama, he posted on X, formerly known as Twitter the following: Bad debates happen. Trust me, I know -- of course, referencing his first debate in 2012. But this election is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life and someone who only cares about himself, between someone who tells the truth, who knows right from wrong, and will give it to the American people straight, and someone who lies through his teeth for his own benefit. Last night didn't change that and it's why so much is at stake in November.

You know, it's notable, Francesca, because there had been some talk and again, just talk that well, maybe perhaps Obama is the person who delivers the difficult message to Biden that it would be his duty, right. To step out of the race, but there you have a very public statement of support from Obama.

FRANCESCA CHAMBERS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, USA TODAY: Right, and that touches on what the Biden campaign's message is today, which is that he had a bad night. They're acknowledging that now.

But on Air Force One, just minutes ago from the president's campaign communications director, in addition to the White House press secretary. But campaigns communications director taking questions from the press, saying that they'd rather have had a bad night then to have a candidate with a bad vision, they've been hitting Trump all day as a wire.

So, now, you can hear them acknowledging, wasn't good, no one denying that. And now, they're trying to spin it forward. It's not a long-term problem.

SCIUTTO: Evan, I mean, that's some major league level spin, though, because we know the Biden team put a lot into this debate. There's a reason they agreed to it. There's a reason they agreed to one this early in the cycle. They knew going in the concerns about his sharpness, et cetera, were top of voter's minds. They thought they'd taken care of that and just didn't -- it just didn't happen.

So I wonder when you get -- I mean, we all know as reporters the honest conversations from our -- from our sources. Have you had any honest conversations with folks who say, yeah, man, you that was bad?

OSNOS: Yeah. I mean, the honest conversations are the ones with people whose name you won't see in the newspaper and the magazine and somewhere else. And you wonder what they really are saying. They're saying, yeah, of course, that was -- that was terrible.

But what they're also saying is show me to pathway that gives me a candidate who has the proven ability to do better right away, right now under these circumstances. Look, that itself is a form of spin.

The reality is there is a deep bench in the Democratic Party, a lot of people who would -- would love to run for president, but none of them right now are lined. There is no consensus choice. That's a key fact, Jim.

If there was an obvious consensus choice right now, this probably would be a different conversation.

SCIUTTO: But there never is, right? I mean, in these situations -- I mean, when you've had disputes before, if you go back like intraparty disputes like say Kennedy versus Carter in 1980 or more recent -- well, Dean Phillips, you know, briefly running against Biden, Nikki Haley running a bit longer against Trump.

You know, it's not -- Shelby, it's not, there's not really a precedent for that, right? I mean, either you make a choice, or you don't. The trouble with the Biden campaign's argument is that they've been saying the same thing for some time, right? Is that well, now he's got the best name recognition. Oh, and by the way, maybe too late.

TALCOTT: That's absolutely correct. I remember talking to Biden folks last year about these concerns about his age and sort of mental fitness, and consistently, what I heard from folks is listen, Joe Biden performs the best against Donald Trump. There is nobody who we could put forward who would be better than him.

And so, that's sort of the argument that they've stuck with for the past year and it's clearly the one that they're continuing to stick with. And, you know, I guess we'll see.

SCIUTTO: I mean, Francesca, we did have a rally performance today from Biden, which was markedly different from last night's performance, I would say more in the Joe Biden State of the Union category, right, than the Joe Biden presidential debate.

And I imagine we're going to see the campaign do more of these going forward.

I think there -- you know, in the numbers who watched the debate last night, perhaps a sign of hope for Democrats. You know, 47.9 million viewers is nothing to shake a stick at. But 73 million tuned in for the first debate in 2020, 84 million for Trump and Clinton in 2016.

Does that perhaps give Democrats some hope that -- well, at least not that many people saw it, right? Or at least compared to previous debates?

CHAMBERS: So the Democrats I've talked to today reassured the ones who saw the president in North Carolina earlier, felt that it was good, that he addressed his own debate performance, Jim.

[15:50:02]

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

CHAMBERS: But in terms of what to do about the ticket, you know, Democrats are saying that even if they wanted to make some sort of a change, that that could come with it on its own set of risks that any of these potential replacements would come with their own set of a baggage, and there's just not a lot of time here to make a change, even if that's something that they wanted to do. And that's not necessarily something that some of them want to do.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. I mean, eventually that argument becomes a self- fulfilling prophecy, right? If you push it off long enough that it becomes a fact.

Francesca, Shelby, Evan Osnos, I know its not the last time we talked about this. Thanks so much for joining.

OSNOS: My pleasure.

SCIUTTO: I want to turn now to global reaction with President Biden facing a torrent of bad reviews worldwide as well. One British tabloid lead with this headline, Biden bombs. While foreign policy, not a main topic of discussion, the wars in Ukraine and Gaza did prompt a lengthy exchange.

For more now, I'm joined by Nic Robertson, CNN's international diplomatic editor.

I wonder, Nic, I mean, listen, you and I know that world leaders and other officials have been watching the U.S. presidential race for some time, and with some trepidation among particularly U.S. allies. After last night's debate performance, what are they saying about the prospect of another Trump presidency?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: They're not saying anything. The officials that are speaking are saying, look, we're going to work with any elected U.S. president. The Russians are saying this is an internal, you know, U.S. issue. And, of course, you think President Putin right now would feel pretty happy with the way -- with the way things went, given what the former President Donald Trump was saying about hinting at cutting funding on Ukraine. The same lines about pressure on NATO, all those things that's going to make -- that's going to make Putin happy. But as for leaders -- no. I mean, I think it's -- what really heard is

from the newspapers and that's been over the style, the performance, not the substance, not the -- not the policy that people actually heard. But it -- but it does genuinely reflect, as you say, there's real concerns.

A lot of leaders here, if not the public, leaders here, many of them, for example, at the G7 last week in Italy, or the week before, they met President Biden. It was half an hour late on each day, he kept them waiting. They saw his frailty. They will have understood that, you know, this is -- this is an older president who can communicate well at moments, and not so well at other moments.

So all of this they know, but the hard reality for everyone here, it makes it look as if Trump is going to be the more likely victor in November. And that's a tough position right now for them.

SCIUTTO: You know, Nic, before the debate when I've asked European officials to say, well, what's your plan if Trump is president? Of course, they will say, as I know you hear, too, we'll work with any president.

But you and I know that Trump at least talks about a vastly different American approach to the world and to America's allies and to NATO that if acted upon would require a sea change in Europe's national security policies, right? I mean, if they can't depend on Trump, for instance, to abide by Article Five and NATO, they've got to come up with a different plan, right? Not clear what that plan is.

I just wonder if the folks you spoke -- speak to and, by the way, this is a live picture of Biden driving in New York off Air Force One.

When you speak to folks, do they articulate at all that they're working on a plan B as it were?

ROBERTSON: You know, I think the plan B that they have is that there's going to be a very, very different relationship with United States, as you say, one that's not reliable. This is a Trump redux, but his coming into the world at a more dangerous time. And that's a concern.

You know, allies and partners in the gulf like Saudi Arabia, they liked some of what Trump had to say before, but they are incredibly and were incredibly worried about what they would wake up and hear the next day. So they all know that.

So, how are they going to deal with it? Well, partners in the Gulf might be looking more towards China to resolve some of the issues of the region as China has helped, has helped bring some stability to the Iran-Saudi relationship if the United States is not going to be the reliable partner tamping down tensions across the -- across the Persian Gulf.

So that's one way you can look at it. And I think for the Europeans, there's going to be a whole lot more as well than the rhetoric about NATO. There's going to be tariffs on trade. Look, what have they got as leverage? Well, if Trump, like Biden, once

allies like NATO and European partners in a potential confrontation with China over Taiwan, there has to be a bit more give than he was willing to indicate last time. That's what I mean when the world is a much more dangerous and volatile --

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

ROBERTSON: -- and complicated place.

[15:55:00]

And is Trump -- does Trump know that? Does he acknowledge it? Is he -- is he ready for this quid pro quo? If he incomes at it on a, you know, a zero sum game on trade. That's going to be really tough.

So I think the preparations are what of the Europeans got that's leverage over a recalcitrant, isolationist United States?

SCIUTTO: Not clear. We should note on Ukraine last night, President Trump said a couple of false things. One, he claimed falsely that U.S. has given more aid to Ukraine than all European countries put together -- not true.

He also said, as he often does, that something bad wouldn't have happened had he been president, which he said as well regarding the invasion of Ukraine by Russia.

Have a listen. I want to get your thoughts on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (R): If we had a real president, the president that knew -- that was respected by Putin, he would have never -- he would have never invaded Ukraine.

He did nothing to stop it. In fact, I think he encouraged Russia from going in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: No basis to that statement. But have you spoken anybody, Nic, in your long reporting on Ukraine that believes that Putin miraculously would not have invaded Ukraine, a country whose existence and independents he denies had Trump been president?

ROBERTSON: Look, it's very hard to judge, but I think there are a couple of takeaways here. In December 2021, when President Biden said NATO would not go into Ukraine to defend Ukraine, that was a green light for Putin. Putin had invaded Ukraine under President Obama.

When President Trump -- and then, then, then the war stopped for a variety of reasons. But he didn't try to invade when -- re-invade when president -- when it was President Trump. But he did again pretty soon after. SCIUTTO: Nic Robertson, thanks so much for joining.

And thanks to all of you for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.