Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Russian Assassination Plot Foiled?; Trump and Project 2025; Interview With Rep. Jonathan Jackson (D-IL); Pressure Intensifying on President Biden. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired July 11, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:30]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

And we begin this hour with President Biden struggling to stop the bleeding just ahead of what could be the most important day of his political career later tonight; 6:30 p.m. Eastern, he will hold a lengthy news conference for the first time since his shaky debate performance some two weeks ago right here on CNN.

But at least 10 minutes in the House and Senate here in Washington already think the president does not have what it takes to beat Donald Trump in November. The sudden erosion of support comes amid a torrent of bruising headlines, marking a brutal 24 hours for the president's reelection campaign.

One donor tells CNN -- I'm quoting now -- "Everything is "

Another top donor, George Clooney, wrote an op-ed in "The New York Times" calling on Biden to drop out just a few short weeks after the actor hosted a multimillion-dollar star-studded fund-raiser out in Los Angeles.

And now -- and new this morning, I should say, a potentially watershed moment. Politico is reporting that Clooney actually spoke to former President Barack Obama about that op-ed, and the 44th president did not necessarily object.

Obama's team declined to comment.

Let's go to the NATO Summit that's unfolding right now here in Washington, D.C. The president is hosting it.

CNN senior White House correspondent Kayla Tausche is joining us now from that NATO Summit.

Kayla, it's hard to overstate how important the president's performance at this 6:30 p.m. news conference later tonight will be. Are aides doing anything to help him prepare? How's that going?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the president's been preparing throughout the week, Wolf, with aides prepping him on all matters of national security for this summit, for the bilaterals and large group negotiations, as well as the questions that he could receive tonight.

But there's going to be a critical meeting that takes place before the president takes the stage for his press conference, and that is his top campaign brass are meeting with lawmakers on Capitol Hill to hear their concerns directly.

And you have to expect that those top aides to the president who have worked for him for decades will be delivering that message directly to him, so that he has a better sense of really the mood on Capitol Hill and where the discussion within his party stands before he steps out to answer questions that will most certainly concern his candidacy and his fitness for office.

Now, I'm told that the looming election in the United States is something that is figured in the background of discussions among allies and their delegations here at the NATO Summit and in the negotiations leading up to it. But it's clear that it is on the mind of the global press corps here at NATO, as well as the world leaders themselves.

Just this morning, the Finnish president was asked in no uncertain terms whether he believed President Biden had the capacity to run the United States, as well as this alliance and all of the relationships that it entails.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDER STUBB, PRESIDENT OF FINLAND: I have had the opportunity to speak to President Biden on many occasions during the past 48 hours, and, as I always say, we human beings, when we're treated in the public eye, we're never as good as we sometimes look and we're never as bad.

I have absolutely no concerns about the capacity of the current president of the United States to lead his country and to lead our fight for Ukraine and to lead NATO.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: Now, that was the leader of Finland, who said there's always turmoil before elections in the United States, as well as in his country before elections took place earlier this year.

And I spoke to a senior U.S. official, though, who said everyone is hedging. There is some terror about what could happen if President Trump were to return to office. That being said, Wolf, I think we should also look at just the numbers of President Biden in a press conference format, because one of the other elements of this is how few of these solo press conferences he does.

That is why there is such a spotlight on this one. It's not only the first press conference that's happened since the debate two weeks ago. It's also the first press conference that he has held solo since last November at the APEC summit. He strongly prefers to hold these events standing alongside other world leaders to deliver messages in tandem with them. But, tonight, the questions are going to be solely for President Biden

-- Wolf.

BLITZER: And very quickly, Kayla, I'm just curious. I'm just wondering. Originally, the White House announced the press conference would be at 5.30 p.m. Eastern, but now they have announced it's been moved to 6:30 p.m. Eastern.

Do we know why they moved it?

[11:05:04]

TAUSCHE: We're still waiting on the exact details of what led to the delay in that press conference.

There are a lot of events taking place here at the convention center today, a lot of things on the schedule. And, certainly, nothing usually, when there's this many moving parts, runs exactly on time. That being said, there are a lot of dynamics at play for the president, his team, and the people that they want to speak with before the president steps out on stage.

So you have to imagine a lot of those conversations are going to be happening this afternoon too.

BLITZER: Our senior White House correspondent, Kayla Tausche, at the NATO Summit here in Washington.

Thank you very much.

Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Jonathan Jackson of Illinois.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

As you know and I'm sure anticipate, the president will be facing a major test leader today at this 6:30 p.m. news conference. How important is it that he delivers a very strong performance?

REP. JONATHAN JACKSON (D-IL): Well, I think that there's no need to panic. I think the president has made his position clear. He's staying in the race.

We have got another five weeks before our Democratic Convention is going to be held in our hometown of Chicago. I don't think the presidency relies upon just this one, if you will, interview. I think he's up to the job.

We were on the phone with him the other night with the Congressional Black Caucus. We have had other encounters with him most recently. And I think he's prepared.

BLITZER: As you know, Congressman, the President Biden is attacking what he calls the elites, elites, for calling on him to drop out.

But look at these latest poll numbers. More than 62 percent of the Democrats, Democrats, and more than half of Biden supporters think he should step aside. So are Democratic voters showing they're not on the president's side, at least right now?

JACKSON: Well, I think it's been a torn of one-way conversation. It's all relative.

They're not talking about the direction that the nation is facing with the return of a President Trump administration. Women's reproductive health is on the ballot. The Supreme Court is on the ballot. Diversity, equity, inclusion is on the ballot. So I think the press would be in a better position to talk about what do the two wings look like, which direction is the nation willing to fly in?

And so there's Biden having -- showing some signs of his age, but he also has the resilience. We also have to look at President Trump's legal issues. And so these will be the two issues. These will be the two choices. And I'm sticking with President Biden.

BLITZER: And you're 100 percent with him. There's no doubt about that. Is that right?

JACKSON: Yes, sir, absolutely. And it's the team.

But I would like to see the campaign. I think the campaign could be in for a potential change-up. I don't know why someone asked to have a 9:00 p.m. debate, if you will. I am older now myself. I saw a meme the other day and says, you're older when the time you go out -- you used to go out is the time you go to bed.

I prefer to be heading towards my home at 9:00 p.m., not going out at 9:00 p.m. So I thought the debate was a little bit too late in the evening. I thought he was overprepped for the debate. He's a master of it. He's been doing this for 50 years. He understands it. And he just stuck to his message.

And I'd like to see that inner circle on the campaign side refreshed and put some new ideas and some new blood around him.

BLITZER: As you probably have heard, Politico is now reporting that former President Barack Obama did not object to George Clooney's op-ed in "The New York Times" calling on President Biden to drop out of the race.

Is your party moving away from the president?

JACKSON: No, not that I can see.

And I wouldn't speculate on what Politico had reported about the conversations between Mr. Clooney and President Biden -- I mean, President Obama. I think what's most important is that 14 million people have voted. We have gone through a primary process. It was open to all. President Biden sought reelection and Vice President Harris.

They won. Now we have to be the representatives of those that have put us in power and take it to the floor in Chicago. So we still have five weeks. I would tell people we have time to make additional choices, course-correction, if someone wants to do otherwise.

But I will stick with the president's desire to stay in this race, and the people across America have given him that mandate.

BLITZER: Last week, Congressman, when asked how he would feel if Donald Trump actually won the election, President Biden said -- and I'm quoting him now -- "As long as I give it my all, that's what this is all about."

Is that how you see this election?

JACKSON: No.

I see that there are 470 races for the federal government that are in play right now, 435 in the Congress, 33 in the United States Senate, the president and vice president, the 470 people that are on the ballot across the nation. And that's the way our government is set up.

So people are going to make choices according to how they have to win. I am in the House of Representatives. I want to see Leader Hakeem Jeffries become the speaker of the House. We need 218 votes. It's a three-vote margin of difference right now.

[11:10:06]

So let's separate the president from the Senate, from the congressional. We want to maintain the House. We support the president, but there are 470 races going on at the same time.

BLITZER: Lots going on.

Congressman Jonathan Jackson of Illinois, thank you so much for joining us.

JACKSON: Thank you.

BLITZER: And stay with us. CNN is following all the latest developments out of the NATO Summit here in Washington just ahead of President Biden's news conference later tonight.

And we're also following the cease-fire and hostage negotiations still ongoing in the Middle East. Talks end without a deal, but sources tell CNN that progress was made and behind-the-scenes negotiations continuing.

And doubling down. Donald Trump claims he doesn't know anything about what's called Project 2025. But CNN found more than 100 people involved in that controversial plan had actually worked for Donald Trump.

Stay with us. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:15:28]

BLITZER: Donald Trump is once again denying any knowledge of what's called Project 2025, the conservative playbook that potentially could radically change America. The 900-page plan would overhaul parts of the federal government and

replace civil servants with Trump loyalists if the former president were to win the election in November. Still, Trump insists he knows nothing about the project or who's behind it.

But a CNN review found at least 140 people involved in the project actually worked in the Trump administration.

CNN's Steve Contorno is joining us right now.

Tell us more about what you found, Steve.

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Wolf, when Donald Trump said he didn't know who was behind Project 2025, we wondered who actually is involved in this.

And when we looked at the roster of authors and contributors and editors, we found 140 people had previous experience working in the Trump White House. And there's dozens more who worked for him in politics and in his transition team.

And it's not just low-level staffers that we're talking about here. It's people who reached the highest levels of his government. Six people who served as Cabinet secretaries under Donald Trump participated in this project. Two of them actually wrote chapters in the 900-page manifesto that you referenced.

Four people that he nominated to be ambassadors were also involved. Many of the high-ranking officials who oversaw and were the architects and enforcers of his immigration policies, they were involved, someone who served as a deputy chief of staff. Lots of people also who worked for him are now at organizations that are advising this project.

There are about 110 conservative groups that have been participating in it. Several people involved at the highest levels of Trump's government have been involved with those organizations, including his former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and his longtime adviser Stephen Miller.

Now, when we took this information to the Trump campaign, they said, look, these people may have worked for Trump in the past, but they don't work for him now. They may not work for him in the future. Donald Trump has supported an agenda that is on his Web site. He supports the Republican Party platform, but this group does not speak for him.

Trump himself last night on social media doubling down, saying he knows nothing about this organization, and also saying that this is an attempt by the radical left to tie him to these groups' more controversial policies. That is something we have seen a lot from Biden in recent days.

And, obviously, his attempts to keep them at arm's distance are complicated by all these ties to the group.

BLITZER: Steve Contorno, thanks very much for the excellent reporting.

I want to discuss what's going on, the state of the race. Joining us now, CNN political commentator Shermichael Singleton and Bakari Sellers.

Shermichael, lots of pushback about this so-called Project 2025. I want you to listen and our viewers to listen to what Republican Senator J.D. Vance of Ohio had to say about it. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH): This is the craziest fear attack that they're using right now. I think most Americans couldn't care less about Project 2025. I have reviewed a lot of it. There's some good ideas in there, Rob. There's some things that I disagree with, but, most importantly, it has no affiliation with the Trump campaign.

The left is trying to make a major news story about the fact that a conservative nonprofit is engaging in public policy work, even though that nonprofit doesn't have an affiliation with the Trump campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What's your reaction to what's going on? Because a lot of controversy erupting as a result of this Project 2025.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It is a controversial document. I even texted with a couple members on the Hill on the Republican side, and even some of them who were in sort of moderate-leaning districts were a bit concerned about it.

And so they were happy to see that the former president and his campaign are pushing back, saying, look, we're distancing ourselves away from this. I understand the argument of 140-plus people who formerly -- worked for the former president are at Heritage.

That's not un-normal, Wolf, for people that have worked for a campaign or worked for a president to go and work for organizations that are similar in terms of ideological leanings. But I will say this. There are some serious issues here in terms of the implementation of Project 2025.

One example, a lot of folks have raised the issue of dismantling the Department of Education. Well, you would need Congress to do that. Republicans can't even agree on basic things, let alone getting the House and a Senate to agree on completely dismantling the Department of Education.

There are judicial issues that you would have to deal with here. And, again, even politically, there are Republicans who represent districts and states where this would be wholly unpopular. So while it may be ambitious, maybe it's a wish list from some individuals at The Heritage Foundation, the realistic odds of this coming to fruition are just almost nonexistent.

[11:20:03] BLITZER: Let me get Bakari in on this conversation.

Do you want -- any reaction to what we just heard, Bakari? What's your thought about this project?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I think it's amazing now that J.D. Vance and even my good friend Shermichael are kind of twisting themselves in pretzels to distance themselves from The Heritage Foundation, which we know is the bedrock of the Republican Party.

It's no secret and it's no -- it's really no surprise that over 100 members of the Trump campaign or the Trump administration were architects of this project, of this piece of paper, of this policy paper, to put it more bluntly.

And this is Trump's Project 2025. And this is how they want to transform democracy. And this is how they want to transform the way that America works. And I think that that's what people understand.

I heard more people at Essence Fest last week talk about Project 2025 and were afraid of it than I heard them talk about Joe Biden's age. And so that is one of the more looming topics that we have. I mean, what's on the ballot is Trump's Project 2025 and abortion. And those issues are issues that are permeating into the average voter.

They're talking about these issues. And while we're talking about other things, such as Biden's age, this is something that is at the forefront of everyone's mind. And I just think it's so damaging, that people can't turn away from it, no matter how much J.D. Vance wants to distance himself or Donald Trump from this project.

BLITZER: You know, Bakari, there's a new ABC News poll that just came out today that shows President Biden and former President Trump are still in the tight race, despite President Biden's debate performance here on CNN.

But it shows that 67 percent of Americans want Biden to step aside. What do you make of this poll?

SELLERS: Well, that -- first of all, I think this poll should be very sobering for Democrats.

We -- we -- and I want to be extremely clear. Democrats, we have done more damage to Joe Biden than Donald Trump did to Joe Biden on June 27 or the day of the debate. This circling fire squad that we're having in public, these tears that we're shedding in public are not helpful to our plight to prevent Project -- or Trump's Project 2025 from coming to fruition.

This has been political malpractice from people I love, adore and respect from top to bottom. And so that's first.

If Joe Biden makes the decision that he cannot serve this country for the next four years, that is his decision and his decision alone to make. If he decides to press forward, what we know is that these polls will come down to earth. This will be an extremely close race, because we're in an extremely tightly fractured, tightly polarized country at this moment.

And so my advice is, Democrats need to -- and particularly Democrats inside the Beltway, we need to look at these polls and then we need to shut up. That's the thing that we need to do. And then we need to give Joe Biden the space, as leader of the free world, to make a decision about whether or not he's -- his shoulders are strong enough to carry this country for the next four years.

If they're not, and if he makes that decision that, at 81 years old, he does not want to run for another four years, at this point, he can't do it, then Kamala Harris is going to be our nominee. She can prosecute the case extremely well, and we will continue to march forward.

I'm focused on November and too many Democrats are focused on trying to get booked on Wolf's show to talk about Joe Biden in public and have their 15 seconds. And it's doing damage to our party that may be irreparable.

BLITZER: Let me get Shermichael to weigh in on this as well. You want to just react to what we just heard from Bakari?

SINGLETON: Yes, I mean, look, I have heard Bakari again mention Project 2025, Wolf.

And this is no different than if a bunch of progressives or Democrats worked at a liberal leaning think tank, and that think tank produced a white policy paper and said, we would like to radically expand government, and then they went and worked in the Biden administration.

That doesn't mean that that's the belief system of President Biden or his agenda as president of the United States. And I think that same standard should be set here. Again, I would beg to the American people -- I get why people are worried about it. But think about the implementation and the execution.

It's one thing to say I want to do something, I hope, I wish, I dream, but can you do it? And the reality is, the way our system currently exists, because of the laws, because members of Congress on the Republican side represent very diverse districts, it is almost impossible.

Now, on the end of President Biden, some of those poll numbers, I think Republicans and the former president are playing it smart, sitting back, not making a lot of noise, focusing on expanding their outreach efforts in some of those battleground states where you have seen some of the numbers move 4, 5, 6 percentage points.

That's going to absolutely make a drastic difference in November. And that's why you see Democrats coming out and drove saying that they want someone else other than President Biden, because they're seeing the same numbers we're seeing, Wolf, which showcases not only a loss of the White House, a loss of the Senate and a loss of the House.

BLITZER: We will see what happens. And those laws are very, very important.

SINGLETON: Absolutely.

BLITZER: I think we all agree on that.

All right, Shermichael Singleton and Bakari Sellers, thank you very, very much.

Now to a CNN exclusive. We are learning that the United States and Germany actually foiled a plot by the Russian government to kill a CEO of a German arms company sending weapons to Ukraine.

[11:25:02]

CNN's Katie Bo Lillis is here with me.

Tell us about this conspiracy. You're doing some major reporting on it.

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Wolf.

So, what my colleagues and I learned was that United States intelligence picked up on signals that Russia, the Russian government, was plotting to assassinate the CEO of a really, really important German arms manufacturer, a company that was producing not only military vehicles that were being used in Ukraine, but, most critically, that was producing artillery ammunition that was being used in Ukraine.

And this, of course, is vital, because the war in Ukraine now is seen as a grinding war of attrition that is likely to be won or lost on the number of artillery shells that each side is able to muster.

And so there was an obvious sort of reason that Russia might seek to disrupt a major arms producer, such as Rheinmetall, this company in Germany.

So, the United States learns that Russia is intending to or is planning to try to assassinate the CEO of this company. They warn Germany about it. The German security services are then able to move to protect the CEO and ultimately foil the plot.

But, Wolf, what's really alarming here is that our sources tell us that this actually isn't the only assassination plot that Russia is believed -- or that U.S. intelligence believes that Russia sort of has in mind here. This was just sort of the most mature out of them.

It's part of this sort of broader sabotage campaign, this shadow war that Russia is fighting across Europe to try to disrupt arms movements into Ukraine in support of the war effort, and to try to degrade public support inside Europe for Western support for the Ukrainian war effort.

What was so alarming about this, of course, is that, up until now, what we have known, at least publicly, is that that sabotage effort was believed to be taking the form of arson attempts, even sort of petty vandalism, right, like, hiring people for cheap in some of these countries to spray-paint anti-war slogans around Poland and other countries where Germany -- or -- sorry -- where Russia wants to try to kind of degrade the public support.

Knowing that Russia was willing to take lethal action against citizens of European nations, against citizens of NATO countries on their own soil, that's a potentially tremendous escalation that poses a real challenge for NATO in terms of, how do you respond to this?

BLITZER: Yes, it's very scary stuff. Thanks for the excellent, excellent reporting.

LILLIS: Thank you.

BLITZER: Katie Bo Lillis with us.

Still ahead this hour: Cease-fire negotiations apparently have wrapped up in Qatar, just as the Israeli military expands its evacuation orders to all of Gaza City.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:30:00]