Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Judge Could Jumpstart Trump Election Interference Case; World Braces for Wider Conflict in the Middle East; Hamas Calls for Prayers and Day of Anger Over Assassination; Biden Hails Importance of Friends and Allies; American Prisoners Back on U.S. Soil; Boxing Controversy at Paris Olympics. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired August 02, 2024 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

PAULA REID, CNN ANCHOR: -- moved this case unusually fast. Do you believe that Judge Tanya Chutkan has been fair to your client throughout this case?

WILL SCHARF, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: You know, Paula, I come at this from the perspective of the former federal prosecutor. I was an assistant U.S. attorney. I've seen relatively simple carjacking or bank robbery cases dragged through the courts for years.

The idea that this immensely complex case with millions of pages of discovery and potentially hundreds of witnesses could have ever been ready for trial in just a few months from indictment to me is crazy and speaks to potential political motives on the part of the special counsel's office. They wanted to try this case at the height of election season and that really dictated all of their actions and ultimately, the trial timeline that Judge Chutkan set.

REID: I want to move along, we only have so much time, to Mar-a-Lago, the documents case there. The attorney general actually weighed in on this recent decision by Judge Aileen Cannon to toss that case based on your team's arguments trying to suggest that the special counsel is not legitimate. Let's take a listen to what the attorney general said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAN, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Until now, every single court, including the Supreme Court, that has considered the legality of a special counsel appointment has upheld it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: What is your reaction to the attorney general who, as you know, rarely weighs in on these cases?

SCHARF: Well, he mealy mouthed a little bit because the actual special counsel appointment power at issue here has obviously never been reviewed by the Supreme Court. The only Supreme Court guidance on the issue of the legality of the special counsel at issue here is actually Judge -- Justice Thomas' concurrence in our presidential immunity case where he said that Jack Smith's appointment was unconstitutional.

So, I don't think Cannon is that far out there. I think that her decision, that's over 90 pages, was extremely well reasoned. And what she said was that just based on the constitution, based on the separation of powers, Jack Smith was not appropriately appointed and his office has not been appropriately funded. Those are two fatal flaws in the special counsel's prosecution and I believe that she will be upheld on appeal.

REID: Most legal scholars disagree with your assessment of Cannon's case, but we're running out of time. I want to give you a chance to talk about your recent arguments in New York, because really, the only thing on Trump's legal calendar right now is that tentative sentencing date of September 18th. What did you argue up there this week?

SCHARF: Well, look in New York and again, in their haste to get to trial, they included a lot of immune evidence both in front of the grand jury and at trial. We asked the New York D.A.'s office and Judge Merchan to delay that trial until we had finality from the Supreme Court on our presidential immunity arguments. They chose to rush ahead instead.

As a result, you have a trial that I believe is irretrievably infected with immune evidence. The Supreme Court again is very, very clear in its opinion that you can't use immune evidence even in prosecutions for nonimmune conduct. So, we believe that's fatal to that New York case. We believe that warrants overturning the jury verdict in that case. If they want to go back to a grand jury and start from square one, I think that's their only path forward.

But in the meantime, we're going to seek to have that jury verdict overturned and that entire case dismissed because of the impermissible use of immune evidence there.

REID: Will Sharf, thank you.

SCHARF: Great to be with you. Thanks a lot.

REID: And coming up, a major diplomatic victory for President Biden. Now, the focus is turning, of course, to November. What's at stake when it comes to foreign policy and America's allies? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:35:00]

REID: Growing tensions in the Middle East this morning as the world watches and braces for a potential all-out conflict in the region. The high-profile killings of several militant leaders have led to vows of retaliation against Israel from Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas.

Now, President Biden is weighing putting more defenses in the Middle East as U.S. officials warn an Iranian response could happen in the coming days. Hamas has called for a day of anger over the killing of its political leader in Tehran, though Israel has not confirmed or denied its involvement. Joining me now is CNN National Security Analyst Peter Bergen. All right. I want to talk to you about how Iran has promised a "harsh and painful" response to the assassination of its political leader. What does that retaliation possibly look like?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST AND HOST, "IN THE ROOM WITH PETER BERGEN" PODCAST: Well, based on their previous response in April, that was 300 ballistic missiles and drones, most of which were intercepted, didn't cause a lot of damage in Israel. But that took a very coordinated response led by the United States, including other Middle Eastern countries getting involved, trying to basically blunt this attack.

That attack took place on a weekend. So, I think it was intended to demonstrate a certain amount of resolve, but not kill people. In the end, it didn't kill anyone. So, Iran, you know, presumably will want to do roughly the same thing or potentially something even more. I'd anticipate that the attack again would happen on the weekend. We're coming into a weekend right now, or it could be next weekend.

It's a hard thing to calibrate because you don't want to -- they don't want to kill too many people. They don't really want an all-out war with Israel. On the other hand, they do want to respond. And you know, in your laundry list of people that might respond, I'd add one other group, of course, which is the Houthis in Yemen, who have shown the ability to strike actually in Tel Aviv with a drone. They've also shown the ability to strike at Israeli ports in the past.

So, you can imagine not only Iran responding, but also Hezbollah doing more than it normally does, which is, you know, very routine attacks across the border. So, that's the kind of likely response.

[10:40:00]

REID: I want to turn to this historic prisoner exchange, because from the moment it was announced, President Biden was emphasizing how this was a multinational effort. Let's take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Today's a powerful example of why it's vital to have friends in this world, friends you can trust, work with, and depend upon, especially on matters of great consequence and sensitivity like this. Our alliances make our people safer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: What does this say about America's standing on the international stage?

BERGEN: Well, I mean, clearly this was an amazing deal but it's part of a -- the Biden administration got off to a slow start in terms of getting wrongfully detained Americans out, but it's done very well. I'm on the advisory council of the James Foley Foundation, which advocates for Americans being held overseas. And, you know, from a high in 2022, the number of Americans held by terrorist groups or states wrongfully has dropped by 42 percent. That was a report we released last week.

So, this doesn't come in isolation. It's been a real priority for the Biden administration. They've got, you know, 10 Americans out of Venezuela relatively recently, they got five Americans held by Iran also. And now, you have these three Americans and one green card holder. Obviously, it was a very complicated deal to negotiate. But, you know, this is -- the Biden administration has been doing this fairly successful now now for three years.

REID: Peter. Thank you.

BERGEN: Thank you, Paula.

REID: And let's discuss more now with Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. He is on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, thank you for being with us. You, of course, played a major role in getting these American prisoners released. Excuse me, you played a major role in getting American prisoner Alan Gross released from Cuba. Based on your experience, what is your reaction to how this historic swap unfolded?

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Paula, it's good to be with you. Yes, it brought back memories of when I flew down to Cuba with Alan Gross' wife to get him released from a Cuban prison after five years. That was also an important agreement. It was not as large and all-encompassing as this one, but it was uncertain until the last moment.

So, it was very heartwarming yesterday to see those images of the Americans getting off the airplane, greeting President Biden, Vice President Harris, and most importantly seeing their families. And as President Biden said, this is a testament to his brand of diplomacy, working closely with our allies. And that requires trust in order to make something like this happen.

REID: And it comes at a really extraordinary moment and by his political career. And we're learning that he was finalizing the details of this exchange just an hour before announcing that he was dropping out of the race. What do you think this exchange means in terms of his larger legacy?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I think it's a reflection of his commitment from the earliest moments of his presidency to restoring. American alliances and partnerships which had been shredded by the Trump administration. And you know, you cannot just sort of pick up the phone unless you have that relationship. And in this case, we know he was on the phone with German chancellor. He met personally with the German chancellor. Met with the prime minister of Slovenia. The vice president had talks with both of them as well.

So, you can't just make that up at the last minute. You have to work at it. And what President Biden had to do after the damage done by the Trump administration was really repair those relationships. And here we can see how important that was.

REID: Well, speaking of Former President Trump, he attacked the exchange saying, "Our negotiations are always an embarrassment to us." And he falsely claimed that when he was president, he exchanged hostages and "gave the opposing country nothing." Now, that is, of course, not true. He authorized a $2 million payment to North Korea, traded three high ranking Taliban commanders and other militants. Now, these are just a few examples. What is your response to the former president's reaction there?

VAN HOLLEN: Right. Well, the key word there, as you said, was those Trump claims are untrue. Another way to say it more directly is, once again, Donald Trump is lying to the American people, which he is, because, as you just indicated, he traded the release of very high- ranking Taliban officials, three of them for one American and one Australian. In the case of the Houthis, he authorized Oman, the country of Oman, to release 250 Houthi prisoners for two Americans.

[10:45:00]

So, his claims are just false on their face. And it is really kind of sad to see that he has to personally inject himself into an important moment of national unity and homecoming for Americans at this moment. But unfortunately, that's just Donald Trump. Everything's got to be about him.

REID: You have a new -- I want to switch topics for just a second. Now, you have a new bipartisan bill calling for reform of the World Anti-Doping Agency. Can you talk a little bit -- especially what everyone's watching, the Olympics and sports are on the brain. Why is this so important to you?

VAN HOLLEN: This is very important because athletes who are competing in the Olympics, whether they're American athletes or any athlete around the world, has to have confidence that the competition is fair. That somebody else is not getting an unfair advantage through doping.

So, we've actually worked with Katie Ledecky, who's a Marylander, and other Olympians on this legislation, bipartisan legislation with Senator Marsha Blackburn and our House colleagues. And it's very simple. It says that the United States will now -- we're giving essentially the person at the White House, the drugs are at the White House, the authority, permanent authority to withhold American contributions from an organization called the World Anti-Doping Agency until we know they're doing their job.

And the reason all this is happening, Paula, is that in the previous Olympics we discovered just months ago that a number of Chinese athletes, I believe they were 12 swimmers, had tested positive for doping. But that the World Anti-Doping Agency swept this under the rug. They did not have a transparent investigation. We only learned of this recently because of a whistleblower. So, clearly, they weren't doing their job.

So, we want to make sure that we use what leverage we have to ensure integrity in the Olympics. And again, that's only fair for all the athletes.

REID: Senator, thank you so much for joining us. VAN HOLLEN: Good to be with you. Thanks.

REID: And next, this is not a transgender case. The International Olympics Committee is defending an athlete from intense backlash following a boxing match. We're live with the latest from Paris.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

REID: An unusual moment in women's Olympic boxing has sparked controversy at the Paris Games. An Italian boxer quit just 46 seconds into a match against her Algerian opponent after taking an especially hard punch to the head. Now, some critics say the Algerian boxer should not have been allowed to compete after she was disqualified from last year's world championships.

CNN's Christine Brennan joins us now. Christine, this is a highly controversial topic, getting a lot of traction on social media, but there's so much conflicting information about what is going on here. What are the facts?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Well, Imane Khelif, who is the Algerian boxer who won that that bout, Paula, when the Italian, Angela Carini, decided to quit, to stop after 46 seconds after getting hit hard, that's what happened in the boxing ring.

And from that moment on, Carini then said that she had been hit too hard. She was bleeding. Journalists were there. There was a lot of conversation about the hit from Khelif, and then, of course, the bout stopping, which is so rare. You don't have a boxing match stop that quickly unless there's, you know, someone is knocked out. And that was not the case here.

From that moment on -- here I am in Paris, but from that moment on, it appears as if social media, especially in the United States, has literally crash-landed here in Paris, at the Olympic Games. And a story that is out there that is really not correct has now gained traction to the point where it is becoming a worldwide conversation. And the part of it that is absolutely not correct is the conversation that she -- the Algerian, is transgender, a transgender woman. She is not.

She was born female and is female, and the International Olympic Committee has said now three different times that she is, in fact, female. So, that's the story in a nutshell, but it is quite a controversy, and I don't think it's going to end anytime soon.

REID: And certainly not. This is all over social media, like you said, especially here in the U.S. But today, the IOC is strongly defending the Algerian boxer, saying many of the things that you laid out, but their statement is specifically "she was born female, was registered female, lived her life as a female, boxed as a female, has a female passport. This is not a transgender case."

How rare is it for the IOC to address a controversy like this in the middle of the Olympic Games?

BRENNAN: You know, this happens every now and then. Certainly, there was a runner named Caster Semenya, a very different situation. But this is a someone who's been dealt with over the years, a story about intersex and issues of testosterone. So, these things do happen and they usually happen, of course, in women's sports. And going all the way back, you know, 60, 70 years when you had the East Germans doping and Russian Soviet doping. So, these things do occur.

[10:55:00]

The issue, and I think why this has taken on a life of its own, is that the International Boxing Federation, which, by the way, is suspended, because of its connections with Russia, very serious connections of improprieties with the Russian government and GOSPROM, one of the companies involved with Putin. That federation is the one that kind of cast doubt here because they said, well, we did these two tests last year. They haven't really said what they were, the kind of mystery tests. And they're the ones that brought this out. And once that came out, everyone went running on social media.

But the fact is that that Boxing Federation, it makes it sound like it's, you know, they know what they're doing, they have been suspended, and if boxing doesn't get another federation, there will not be boxing at the Los Angeles Olympics. Throw that into the mix, and I think that, of course, is helping to stoke this controversy.

REID: Christine Brennan, thank you.

BRENNAN: Thank you.

REID: And coming up, back on American soil, months of closed door meetings leading to moments like these for three Americans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:00]