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Hamas Casts Doubt On Whether It Will Attend Thursday Talks; VP Harris Attends Fundraiser In San Francisco; Gymnast Jordan Giles Stripped Of Individual Bronze Medal; Israel Braces For Retaliation From Iran And Hezbollah; Governor Walz And Wife Gwen's Rise On To The National Stage; "Misinformation Part 2: Patriots, Pillows And Paper Ballots" Airs Tonight; Arrested Cartel Boss Continues Claim He Was Ambushed And Kidnapped By El Chapo's Son. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired August 11, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:01:21]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta alongside my colleague Wolf Blitzer in Tel Aviv -- Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Fredricka, thank you very much.

We're learning new details right now about that critical ceasefire, Gaza ceasefire negotiations set to happen later this week. Hamas has just issued a new statement expressing frustration over the continued violence against Palestinians despite ongoing mediation efforts. And now they say they want mediation based on previous ceasefire talks.

This is complicating the situation big time. We have teams of our reporters covering the latest developments on these very high pressure negotiations. And I want to start with CNN's Jeremy Diamond. He's joining us live from Haifa in northern Israel for us.

Jeremy, what's the latest you're hearing from Hamas and your sources?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Hamas is now casting doubt on whether it will attend these ceasefire negotiations that are scheduled for this coming Thursday, indicating that they don't want to go to another round of negotiations, but instead that they want to see a deal based on previous rounds of talks.

Here's a part of their statement released within just the last couple of hours. They say the movement demands the mediators to present a plan to implement what they presented to the movements and agreed upon on July 2nd, 2024, based on Biden's vision and the U.N. Security Council resolution, and to compel the occupation to do so instead of going for further negotiation rounds or new proposals.

They say, Wolf, that they've arrived at this latest stance following an Israeli attack yesterday on a school in Gaza that killed at least 90 people, according to local officials. The Israeli military claims that it was targeting a Hamas compound but in images from the scene, you can see that there were many women and children among the dead and the injured. I'm also told by sources that Israeli officials were told by the

Egyptian and the Qatari mediators in recent days that Yahya Sinwar, Hamas' political leader, does want a deal. He does want to get to a ceasefire, but the question, Wolf, as we are now learning, is exactly what kind of deal, which version of this framework proposal that President Biden has been talking about over the last couple of months does Hamas actually want to agree to.

And the same question can be posed of the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who publicly has also indicated that he is willing to get to a first phase of an agreement even as he indicates that the war will eventually resume in Gaza. I'm told Wolf that there are questions about exactly whether or not the Israeli prime minister wants a deal. Privately his allies are telling Israeli government officials as well as journalists that the Israeli prime minister does want to reach a deal, even if it upends his right-wing coalition government.

But the Israel security establishment, which has been pushing the Israeli prime minister for weeks now to agree to a ceasefire agreement, they still remain skeptical of Netanyahu's intentions. What is clear, though Wolf, is that all of this is coming in the context of potential attacks by Hezbollah as well as by Iran with this summit on Thursday coming up in just a matter of days.

And so will we even get to those negotiations? Will Hamas attend and even if they don't, you know, will these potential attacks by Iran and Hezbollah upend any potential progress that could be on the horizon? All of that, Wolf, are the key questions that officials here are very much watching over the coming hours and days.

BLITZER: Yes. The stakes are really, really enormous. Enormous stakes. Jeremy, stand by, we're going to get back to you.

[16:05:01]

CNN's diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is here with me in Tel Aviv.

And Nic, earlier today we heard from President Biden and his assessment on what's going on with these current ceasefire hostage release negotiations. Let me play the clip. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is a ceasefire possible before the end of your term?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes. It's still possible. The plan I put together endorsed by the G7, endorsed by the U.N. Security Council, et cetera, is still viable and I'm working literally every single day to, and my whole team, to see to it that it doesn't escalate into a regional war. But it easily can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That jumped out of me, I'm sure it jumped out at you that this could easily jump towards a regional war right now.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And that's why there's sort of diplomatic pause we got into last week was promising because the cost of not getting it right was that Iran was going to retaliate. It would be a retaliation that could potentially kill civilians. Worse potentially than what we saw in April. Israel would respond. Hezbollah would also respond for the killing of one of their top officials at the same time as the Hamas official was killed in Tehran a week and a half ago.

And that also could have led to an absolute escalation with Lebanon. And these things are still real. They're still potential, they still could happen. The notion that a ceasefire deal over Gaza could be moved forward and that Prime Minister Netanyahu might make concessions that he hadn't made before was really what last Sunday caused Iran to sit back and pause and take a beat. But it's becoming clear now that as we get closer to the potential for these talks this week that they may no longer have faith in what's on the table.

Hamas is saying they're not going, that they feel that Prime Minister Netanyahu is not going to give them what they want. This is all, to a degree, posturing. The expectation I think through these tourists and speaking with the Jordanian foreign minister at that big meeting of regional foreign ministers in Jeddah, that was so important earlier on in the week. He stressed that it was important that there were concessions made on the Israeli side to keep Iran happy.

And I put it to him. That's only going to be with the United States pressure. Absolutely. There's no other country that's going to -- has the ability to do that.

BLITZER: And you were there in Jeddah and the Islamic leaders who were there from around the world, were they confident that President Biden had the ability to pressure the Israeli prime minister to accepting a deal?

ROBERTSON: You know, I have to say there's a real feeling that no, they're not confident of that. They want it. They need it. This is the initiative they think that will help change the dynamic at the moment that has been stuttering along and on the hostage-ceasefire peace talks for all of this year. That's the piece of the puzzle they hoped for. But no, they're beginning to feel that he is a lame-duck president that is getting at the end of his presidency.

And there are some of those around that table, sitting around that table actually would favor a Republican who they think can be tougher on Iran. So that's -- when we talk, when President Biden talks about how dangerous that dynamic is, that stasis that failure to move forward makes it so much more potentially volatile and dangerous.

BLITZER: And as you and I know when Israelis hear the president of the United States talk about the possibility of a regional war that clearly raises the tension level here in Tel Aviv where we are.

Nic Robertson, Jeremy Diamond, to both of you, thank you very, very much. Fredricka, back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thank you so much.

All right. Back here in the U.S. we are following the race for campaign support as the sprint to the White House is now down to just 86 days. Right now, Vice President Kamala Harris is at a major fundraiser in San Francisco as her campaign looks to build on a week- long blitz of battleground states. The Harris campaign says the San Francisco event has already raised more than $12 million for her election and that adds to her July fundraising, which raked in a whopping $310 million in the first 10 days of her campaign.

On Saturday, Harris and her running mate, Governor Tim Walz, held the fifth and final campaign event of their introductory tour of swing states with a rally in Las Vegas there.

CNN's Kevin Liptak joining us right now.

So, Kevin, what are the Harris-Walz campaign plans, you know, to try and keep this momentum going?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And certainly that is the objective. Now, after this five-city introductory tour, the real goal for the Harris campaign is to keep this momentum going and to avoid any sense of complacency among their supporters heading into the fall.

Now last night, certainly a lot -- a big crowd, huge amount of energy. Altogether she has spoken to tens of thousands of people at her rallies this week. And the enthusiasm is extending to fundraising as well. 700 people bought tickets for that fundraiser that just concluded in San Francisco.

[16:10:09]

And we did just get a something of a readout of what she told those donors. It wasn't on camera, but reporters were allowed into the room. And you do get this sense that she doesn't want her supporters to become complacent. She says she's never been one to really believe in the polls. She says, we can take nothing for granted in this moment, and she says, while it has been a really good couple of weeks, she says we have a lot of work to do.

And certainly that is the objective of the Harris campaign going forward, we did see her yesterday speaking to reporters saying that she will begin rolling out policy proposals this week, specifically focused on the economy and lowering prices for Americans. In fact, just last night, she revealed a proposal to eliminate federal income taxes on tips. That is of course enormously popular in a place like Las Vegas where so many workers rely on tips for their income.

It's also a proposal that President Trump has raised on the campaign trail and he wasted no time saying that Kamala Harris was copying him. A Harris campaign official says that she will work with Congress to get this passed. It will include income limits. It will include provisions to ensure that people like lawyers and hedge fund managers aren't able to manipulate the new law to eliminate their own taxes.

Now, the other thing that we'll see Harris do this week is make her first sort of official appearance with President Biden. They'll be in Maryland talking about the economy. It will be interesting to see just how much Biden campaigns for Kamala Harris going forward. He said in an interview today he plans to do whatever Kamala thinks I can do to help the most -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Kevin Liptak, thanks so much.

All right. Still to come, a shocking turn of events in Paris. American gymnast Jordan Chiles has been stripped of her bronze medal. What we're learning about the decision.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:32]

WHITFIELD: Gymnast Jordan Chiles was on cloud nine after winning an individual bronze medal on Monday. Well, now she has to return it. The International Olympic Committee announced today that her bronze medal for gymnastics floor exercise will instead be awarded to her Romanian counterpart. And it comes after a court of arbitration for sport ruling on Saturday, which said the initial inquiry made by the U.S. over Chiles' score was filed after the one-minute deadline.

Chiles' original score of 13.666 would be reinstated and her competitors' ranking with a score of 13.7 would move the Romanian back to third place.

CNN sports analyst and "USA Today" sports columnist, Christine Brennan, joining me right now, live from Paris.

Christine, great to see you. So, I mean, this is sad in so many ways, right? The U.S. Olympic Committee feels so too because now it is appealing, but to whom, because wasn't the Court of Arbitration for Sport and International Gymnastics Federation, which already ruled on the medal to be returned?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: That's correct, Fredricka. But you can appeal those court of arbitration for sport rulings. In fact, we just watched that happen over many months with the figure skating debacle involving Kamila Valieva. So the USOPC will throw its considerable might and haft and money at this and have the best lawyers, and I fully expect when this is over that Jordan Chiles will have a pretty good shot at getting that bronze back.

And they may well, in fact, and what they should have done, they being the International Olympic Committee and the International Gymnastics Federation, they should have just given both bronze medals.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

BRENNAN: The Romanians said yes to that, the Americans said yes to that. And then for some reason that is unknown to me for all my Olympics I've covered the International Olympic Committee did not say, hey, that's a good idea. No, they actually said the opposite. And what they've done here at this gorgeous spectacular Olympic Games in Paris, the final day has now been consumed by this, by this controversy, not by the glories of Paris.

And so, yes, that's where we stand now, but it's a very unfortunate situation. I do believe it will end up being resolved. And of course, Jordan Chiles is back in the United States and she has the medal. So they're not going to get back anytime soon because she's got it already with her back in the states.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my gosh. How uncomfortable and just strange. You know, and as you said, the games were pretty much, you know, blemish-free. And of course there was that historic moment of these gymnasts Biles, Chiles, you know, bowing to Brazil's Andrade. And now you're going to erase that?

BRENNAN: That's -- I'm so glad you made that point because that truly is one of the most iconic images of these Olympics and what it says is the first time ever all-black podium, three women of color, three black women on that podium. The notion of diversity, inclusion, the message that is being sent to the world about gymnastics, that alone is certainly worth, you know, more than 1,000 words than the picture, right?

I mean, it's just an extraordinary moment. And of course what the IOC now wanted to do is just like smash that, just break up that moment. Another piece of the puzzle as I've said that I think it just makes absolutely no sense, and it's something I've been following and I will continue to follow because people are outraged.

[16:20:05]

They should be outraged and again the easy solution is just to make sure both got the bronze medal. And everyone would have been happy as opposed to what we have now.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And on top of all that, you know, in an era of acknowledging and honoring mental health, you know, for athletes, I mean, does this kind of decision, you know, seemed to dismiss the mental toll that this is taking on these two athletes. I mean, Chiles herself on social media said, you know, I'm out. I'm getting off social media right now because I have to take care of my mental health.

BRENNAN: Right. And in this sport of gymnastics of all sports.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

BRENNAN: Obviously the worst sexual abuse scandal in Olympic history, in sports history. The Larry Nassar horrors, and Simone Biles, of course, is a survivor of that. The fact that Simone Biles has talked so much about her own mental health and the twisties and everything she went through three years ago. And now, here's another woman under the microscope in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons because the adults, the older people in this sport, in the Olympics and in gymnastics have failed. They have failed 23-year-old Jordan Chiles. There's no other way to

say it, Fredricka. It is a total failure of the system. She did nothing wrong. She deserves that bronze medal. It was a joyous moment that sent a message around the world with that pictures, as you said. And now to think that it has devolved into this morass of complete lack of leadership by the IOC and by the World Gymnastics Federation. It's appalling, it's awful, and the good news is that USOPC is on it.

Some might have said, hey, why weren't they on it before? This appeal process went so quickly that no one really even knew what's happening. And of course the whole point is that they didn't appeal within the one-minute. Thats the word, that they were four seconds late. Well, I'm going to guess when we find out that there could be evidence that the appeal did happen within the one-minute time period because what's going on in gymnastics floor at that moment there's so much going on.

You're looking, if you're watching on TV, at a specific athlete or coach, but that is an arena with lots happening and there's language barriers. And there's a clock on everything. So I think the USOPC they feel that they've got a very strong case for Jordan Chiles. But what an unfortunate situation to be dragged through this as she has for so many days.

WHITFIELD: Right. All great points. Christine Brennan, thank you so much. From Paris. Have a safe journey back to the U.S.

BRENNAN: Thank you, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Straight ahead, could there be a new ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas? We're getting new details on possible talks. We'll go live to the region next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:27:13]

BLITZER: A truly stunning development just days before the ceasefire negotiations for Gaza were scheduled to begin again. Hamas is now casting doubt about whether it will attend the talks at all. They're scheduled for this coming Thursday. In a statement, the group is calling for parameters of the deal to revert back to those outlined at a July 2nd agreement that was based on then President Biden's vision and the U.N. Security Council resolution.

Let's bring in Axios reporter and CNN political and global affairs analyst, Barak Ravid.

President Biden outlined the basic plan back in July, and that supposedly what was about to unfold, but you have some new reporting, Barak, about these negotiations. Tell our viewers what you're learning.

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Hi, Wolf. So basically Hamas' statement is quite extraordinary because it basically rejects the invitation sent by the U.S., Qatar and Egypt for this final round of talks planned for Thursday, possibly in Doha to try and finally get this deal together. And the timing of Hamas' statement is very interesting because it comes as Israeli Intelligence Services see more and more preparations in Iran and by Hezbollah in Lebanon for some sort of a joint or coordinated attack against Israel.

And many Israeli officials think that Hamas basically took a tactical decision to allow Iran and Hezbollah to attack first and then see where things are going, and only then decide whether it wants to go forward with the deal or not.

BLITZER: Given these latest demands from Hamas, is a deal, in your opinion, still achievable?

RAVID: Well, that's the million-dollar question. I mean, nobody knows because on the one hand it is very hard to understand what Yahya Sinwar, Hamas' leader wants. He is in a bunker in a tunnel, I don't know, 100 feet under the ground in Gaza. It's very hard to reach him and to communicate with him. And on the other hand, it's also very hard to understand what Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu really wants.

He's also sending mixed signals, changing his opinion every few days. One day he puts more demands on the table, the other day he sends his negotiators again for talks. So it is really hard to know whether this optimism that the White House is spreading has any basis or it is just an attempt to, you know, spread optimism with the hope that it will actually influence the talks.

BLITZER: Do you think Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Israeli government right now are ready to go back to this deal that was on the table more than a month ago?

RAVID: You know, I think obviously not the entire Israeli government because you have Betzalel Smotrich, the minister of finance, and Itamar Ben-Gvir, the minister of national security, two ultra- nationalists, already said that they will not support this deal and they will topple the government.

[16:30:18]

We just saw on Friday, White House spokesman John Kirby going out in an unprecedented way against Smotrich because of his objection to the deal. So I think it is not clear whether, A, if Netanyahu wants a deal and if he wants a deal, whether he's ready to confront the radicals within his own government.

BLITZER: The Hamas statement that came out today as, you know, Barak, comes just a day after an Israeli airstrike killed dozens at a school and mosque in Gaza. Israel is also continuing to evacuate portions of Khan Younis. How much are those military actions potentially impeding efforts to close a ceasefire hostage release deal?

RAVID: Well, obviously, any such development on the ground either in Gaza or, you know, the assassination of the top Hezbollah commander in Beirut, or the assassination of Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas' political leader, in Tehran. All of those influence the hostage and ceasefire talks. And Hamas in its statement and actually laid down a case for why it doesn't want to go to this round of talks on Thursday.

One reason was the assassination of Haniyeh, another reason was the Israeli airstrike yesterday. Another reason was Netanyahu's new demands and new conditions. So I think we'll have to see whether this move by Hamas is just tactical. Hoping that something will happen in the next few days and then maybe will get a better deal, or there's something much deeper than that and the gaps are just too wide to get a deal at this time.

BLITZER: As you know, Barak, President Biden said earlier today, he's working day and night to ensure that the situation here in the Middle East doesn't spiral into what he's calling an all-out regional war, his words. He said it can easily happen given the current tensions in the region. How does the U.S. keep that from happening?

RAVID: I think, you know, the plan was to send an air train of U.S. officials to the region starting with Biden's top Middle East adviser, Brett McGurk, then later Secretary of State Blinken, then later CIA director Bill Burns. All of that was planned for next week. But if we'll see Hezbollah and Iran attacking Israel in the next 24 to 48 hours, and this is what I hear from Israeli officials, that's the assessment at this time that this is going to happen.

If this happens, this whole thing might just unravel because Israel is likely to retaliate both against Hezbollah in Lebanon and against Iran, and you can never know what the consequences of that are going to be. And there's a high risk that this would lead into a much, much deeper crisis than we are right now.

BLITZER: And very quickly, Barak, I'm anxious to get your thoughts. You've seen all these reports especially here in Israel that Iran and Hezbollah may want to coordinate and time some sort of attack on Israel in coordination with the Israeli holiday of Tisha B'Av which starts tomorrow night. It's a sad holiday for the Jewish people because it marks the destruction of the holy temple in Jerusalem a few thousand years ago. It's a day of fasting.

What do you make of this speculation that they could attack Israel on Tisha B'Av?

RAVID: Well, it's a speculation. Nobody knows for sure. And I can tell you that the Israeli minister of defense, Yoav Gallant, just spoken hour ago with Secretary of Defense Austin, and in that call, they also did not know what to say, if it's going to happen tomorrow during Tisha B'Av or later in the week. So I think it's still unclear. What we do know is Hezbollah is ready for such an attack. For Hezbollah it's only like in the press of a button, they fire their missiles and drones.

With Iran, it's still a bit more complicated. They still need to take the final -- the supreme leader needs to take the final decision. This I don't think has happened yet. But it is totally possible that we'll see it in the next 24 or 48 hours.

BLITZER: Yes. It will be a very, very tense period. Already very tense here in the streets of Tel Aviv, but even more so during this holiday of Tisha B'av.

Barak Ravid, thank you as usual for your expertise. We really appreciate it.

RAVID: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: And Fredricka, back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Wolf, thank you.

Coming up, election misinformation. Is it seeping into 2024 election? Our Donie O'Sullivan talks with the MyPillow CEO, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:39:39]

WHITFIELD: Former president Donald Trump returns so the campaign trail Wednesday with a rally in North Carolina. His running mate J.D. Vance will head to battleground Michigan this week.

In an interview with CNN, Vance tried to turn the tables on his vice presidential opponent, Governor Tim Walz, after Walz called the Republican ticket weird.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I want to move on to something that Governor Walz has called you and Donald Trump, and that is weird.

[16:40:05]

SEN. JD VANCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Sure.

BASH: And it has taken off.

VANCE: Well, certainly they've levied that charge against me more than anybody else, but I think that it drives home how they're trying to distract from their own policy failures. I mean, look, this is fundamentally schoolyard bully stuff. They can accuse me of whatever they want to accuse me of. As Harry S. Truman once said, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen and I'm doing this because I think that me being vice president will help improve people's lives.

So I accept their attacks, but I think that it is a little bit of projection, Dana, if you think about, you know, just take a couple of days ago. Tim Walz gives this big speech. He's been announced as the VP nominee. And I remember when I had just been announced as a VP nominee, I gave my big speech and I saw my wife and I gave her a big hug and a kiss because I love my wife and I think that's what a normal person does.

Tim Walz gave his wife a nice firm Midwestern handshake and then tried to sort of awkwardly correct for it. So I think that what it is two people, Kamala Harris and Tim Walz who aren't comfortable in their own skin because they're uncomfortable with their policy positions for the American people. And so they're name-calling instead of actually telling the American people how they're going to make their lives better. I think that's weird, Dana, but look, they can call me whatever they want to.

BASH: You're saying Tim Walz doesn't have affection for his wife? I don't even understand that.

VANCE: I said that he acted weird, which he did on a national stage in front of his wife and in front of millions of Americans who presumably were watching at home. And I think that is projection, Dana.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. And just like her husband of 30 years, Governor Walz's wife Gwen is no stranger to being in the spotlight. She has been by his side as he has served in Congress and then as the first lady of Minnesota when he became governor. But she's fairly unknown on the national stage.

CNN's Whitney Wild profiles the woman who could become the next second lady of the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Minnesota Governor Tim Walz steps onto the national stage, those close to him say the secret to his success walks by his side. Then Gwen Whipple met Tim Walz when both were working as teachers in Nebraska. The more reserved Gwen married gregarious Tim in 1994. Two years later, they moved to Gwen's home state of Minnesota and eventually next door to Sherri Blasing.

SHERRI BLASING, TIM AND GWEN WALZ'S FORMER NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR: Even as governor, you know, I know Tim is the governor, but Gwen has a lot to do with that. They are truly one of the best partnerships I've seen.

WILD: Blasing is now the principal of Mankato West High School where Gwen taught English and Tim social studies.

BLASING: Gwen was hired by Mr. Barnett, he was the principal at the time, and she was hired as an English teacher and she went into his office and said, well, the thing is, is we're a package deal. So if you want me you got to hire my husband, Tim. So we always joked that the only reason Tim got a job was because Gwen got it for him.

WILD: Students quickly learned the pair were very different, but equally effective educators.

ANN VOTE, FORMER STUDENT OF GWEN WALZ: She is an articulate, intentional individual who ran her classroom like a very tight ship.

WILD: Gwen and Tim openly discuss their struggle to build a family, sharing their 23-year-old daughter, Hope, was conceived through IVF. Their son Gus is five years younger, born just three weeks before his father won his first congressional race in 2006. As her husband's career group Gwen solidified a political personality of her own.

GWEN WALZ, WIFE OF GOVERNOR TIM WALZ: Leaning for children, leaning family.

WILD: In 2019 when Tim became governor, Gwen opened an office in the state capital, a Minnesota first.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has anybody kind of said, gee, you know, what's with that?

WALZ: For sure. I guess my point on that is I'm just going to work really hard to be a value add.

WILD: Gwen advocated for a range of issues including restoring voting rights to felons, stricter gun safety policies, and college education in prisons.

WALZ: Education is a real predictor of not going back to prison. Some states are spending more money on incarceration every year than they are on higher education. I don't think Minnesota wants to go in that direction.

WILD: Whitney Wild, CNN, Minneapolis, Minnesota.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, Whitney, thanks so much.

Conspiracy theories about the 2020 election led to the storming of the U.S. Capitol. Well, now, four years later, CNN's Donie O'Sullivan investigates whether misinformation is still wreaking havoc here in America -- Donie.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Fred, in this episode of "THE WHOLE STORY," we really want to take the audience and to seeing just how vast and sophisticated this world of election denialism is, and that brought us to the MyPillow guy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE LINDELL, MYPILLOW CEO: Don't trust me on a golf cart. I once drove on right into a pond once.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): This is Mike Lindell or as he's better known, the MyPillow guy. He is also one of the country's best known election deniers.

LINDELL: $25. We have to secure elections --

O'SULLIVAN: But do you have evidence it was stolen?

LINDELL: In 2020?

O'SULLIVAN: Yes.

LINDELL: Absolutely. And the evidence we have -- O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Mike is still wrongly convinced that election

machines were hacked and used to steal the 2020 election.

[16:45:02]

LINDELL: We've got a big problem here where computers are in our election. My battle is to get rid of the machines and get to paper ballot component.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our goal is to get you along these platforms, getting views without getting taken down. And it's a constant, constant battle.

O'SULLIVAN: When companies like Twitter and Facebook kicked users off their platforms in 2021 for spreading election misinformation, it spawned a whole new world of alternatives, so-called free speech platforms.

LINDELL: Here's the ones I have. I have Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Truth, Gab, Getter, Cella Gram, and Frank Social.

O'SULLIVAN: Mike set up his own social media and video streaming platform, FrankSpeech.

LINDELL: A platform to reach out to all of you with MyPillow products and then also to keep our voice going.

O'SULLIVAN: It's got its own slate of TV shows.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to the broadcast. Glad you are with us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in November, they're going to steal the election.

O'SULLIVAN: And now it's just one part of a growing universe of online MAGA media pushing election lies.

LINDELL: Here's my original invention.

O'SULLIVAN: Mike is an American success story. He went from crack addict to CEO.

LINDELL: That picture there is where the drug dealers did an intervention on me in 2008.

O'SULLIVAN: Your drug dealers --

LINDELL: Did an intervention.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But his insistence on promoting and pursuing election conspiracy theories has cost him.

And the box stores and stuff kicked you out after January --

LINDELL: January night. The one that bothered me the most was Costco because 90 some people lost their jobs because of Costco. O'SULLIVAN: But you realized what you're doing when it comes to

elections. It risks all of this. Like --

LINDELL: The world has risks and all that, but I can't risk our country. I won't back down.

O'SULLIVAN: There's no moment where you say, you know what, I should just go back focus on Pillow?

LINDELL: Never. Never, never, never. I will never look back. I can't unsee what I've seen and I can't unknow what I know.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): And that's where the pillows come back in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I can take the law --

LARA TRUMP, RNC CO-CHAIR: Go to MyPillow.com and use promo code "Trump."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank God for MyPillow.

O'SULLIVAN: MAGA influencers everywhere are using Mike's pillow codes to support the lies they are spreading.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I absolutely love Mike.

O'SULLIVAN: But Mike isn't the only one selling something. A whole economy has popped up around the MAGA universe from Patriot phones to Patriot steaks.

STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE STRATEGIST: Mike Lindell.

LINDELL: As we know, we all need the best sleep of our lives during these attacks. And this time we're in.

O'SULLIVAN: Mike seems to genuinely believe the conspiracy theories that he is peddling but what he is doing is dangerous. He is spreading misinformation that is undermining trust in American elections. And through his pillow codes, he's helping others do the same.

LINDELL: I'm passionate about it because, if you knew what I knew, you wouldn't stop me either.

O'SULLIVAN: I think you mean well but I think what you're doing is probably pretty dangerous.

LINDELL: OK. I don't agree with that.

O'SULLIVAN: I know.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Yes, Fred. And look, this stuff freely is dangerous, right? There's a lot of people that we spoke to, Trump supporters, as we were making this documentary who still falsely believe that the 2020 election was stolen. And now they believe the only way Harris could win, the only way Trump could lose this time around is that if it is stolen or the Democrats cheats again.

Of course that is false, but that is the mindset of a lot of people. That is obviously what they believe last time and we saw what happened last time. It led to an attack on the U.S. Capitol. So these conspiracy theories, these lies really having a big impact and could have a huge effect after this November's election -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Donie O'Sullivan, thanks so much.

All right. "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER" airs tonight at 8:00 p.m., and we'll be right back.

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[16:53:35]

WHITFIELD: All right. Two weeks after two alleged drug cartel leaders got on a plane to allegedly look at real estate and then were arrested in the U.S., now the attorney of one of them says he was betrayed.

CNN's Rafael Romo is joining me right now with more on all this.

What is going on? We said there was going to be another interesting chapter.

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have. We said there's going to be a new twist and indeed there is one.

WHITFIELD: There we go.

ROMO: And you'd normally only hear from a suspected drug lord speaking publicly in movies or TV. So on the rare occasions when they do so in the real world everybody pays attention. A statement from Ismael El Mano Zambada released through his attorney on Saturday is making headlines around the world. And the statement Zambada reiterates the claim that he was ambushed and kidnapped by a son of notorious drug lord Joaquin El Chapo Guzman and hand-delivered to U.S. authorities.

"The notion that I surrendered or cooperated voluntarily is completely and unequivocally false," Zambada says. "I was brought to this country forcibly and under duress without my consent and against my will."

We had heard as much from Zambada's attorney days after U.S. law enforcement arrested both Zambada and Joaquin Guzman Lopez at an airport near El Paso last month. But this time Zambada added details including accusations that he was being asked to mediate in a dispute between the governor of the Mexican state of Sinaloa, which gives its name to the cartel, and a political rival.

[16:55:00]

Sinaloa Governor Ruben Rocha Moya, who belongs to the same party as Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, vehemently denied the accusations on Saturday at an event where they appeared together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RUBEN ROCHA MOYA, SINALOA STATE GOVERNOR (through translator): So there's absolutely nothing, nothing, that can link me to that matter. Nothing. I say it bluntly, forcefully, nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: The Mexican president later said he fully trust the governor and praised them for forcefully responding to deny the accusations. As for the statement from Zambada, he ends by calling on the people of Sinaloa to use restraint and maintain the peace. The man accused by the U.S. Department of Justice of atrocities like conspiracy to murder countless people and trafficking of the deadly chemical known as fentanyl added, and I quote, so listen to this, Fred, "Nothing can be solved by violence."

Zambada remains in U.S. custody, held without bond after pleading not guilty to seven federal criminal charges. He's due back in court next month.

What a twist, huh?

WHITFIELD: Oh, my gosh. Very dramatic. This is really something and I know there'll be more with another page-turning chapter.

All right. Rafael Romo. Thank you so much.

All right. Thank you, everybody, for joining me this weekend. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The CNN NEWSROOM continues with Jessica Dean and Wolf Blitzer right after this.

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