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Michael Cohen at the DNC; Harris Promises New Path Forward; Harris' Speech Focus on Patriotism, Abortion and Gun Rights; "The West Wing": 25 Years Later. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired August 23, 2024 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: An unlikely face at this week's DNC, Donald Trump's former personal attorney and fixer, Michael Cohen. I caught up with him to ask why he came to Chicago and here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: But what does it say that you are here? You used to work for Donald Trump. Now, you're at the DNC. You're trying to beat Trump.

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP FIXER: Well, it's also not my first convention that I've been at. It's not my first Democratic Convention that I've ever been at. Remember, this is a massive mistake that is regularly made by people. I've been a Democrat virtually my entire life.

ACOSTA: There must be something gratifying about being here, having these folks come up to you, want the selfie, because of what you're saying, the fact that you're speaking out against Trump.

COHEN: You mean truth to power?

ACOSTA: Yes, yes.

COHEN: Absolutely. That the man is unfit for the presidency of the United States. 2016 through 2020 is a very tumultuous chaotic time in America's history. The question is, do we want to go back there, or as people start chanting, when Kamala is talking, we're not going back. Why would you want to live in chaos? Why do you want to live with the tumult that this man brings?

I know the man, and I'm telling you, if he, God forbid, a million times wins the election right now in 2024, there will never be another election ever again.

ACOSTA: What is going to go through Donald Trump's mind though when he sees you, when he sees former administration people here?

COHEN: Truth, I don't really care what he's thinking. This isn't about him. You know, we tried to make everything about him, his feelings, and stuff, I don't care about his feelings.

[10:35:00] What I care about is seeing a big, gigantic blue wave come November and not just the Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, but the entire down ballot. Trumpism is fascism and we must eradicate it from our body politic. Otherwise, we're going to lose our democratic republic.

ACOSTA: And I did want to ask you, I mean, you know, Trump very well. One day this week, he says, oh, I like the Obamas, the next day he's trashing them. I mean, what does that tell you? I mean, before the RNC, they were saying it's a different kind of Trump.

COHEN: Right.

ACOSTA: And then, we saw that wasn't the case.

COHEN: Right. He's saying it because he knows that President Obama and first lady, Michelle Obama -- former first lady Michelle Obama was going to be here and they were going to be speaking about it. So, he thinks by saying nice things about him, that it's going to change. That works if you're Donald Trump. Vladimir Putin says Donald Trump is smart. All of a sudden, it's a love affair. Kim Jong Un says nice things about Donald. All of a sudden, it's a love affair. Xi Jinping says it. All you need to do is flatter the guy, and next thing you know, you're best friends. There's love letters going around. This is not, again, normal behavior. It's not something America should want for a president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And it was amazing to see Michael Cohen take selfie after selfie here at the DNC. He's kind of a big celebrity here. Pretty wild to watch. Talk -- let's talk about this now. Joining me now to talk about this, CNN political commentator Maria Cardona, CNN political analyst Laura Barron-Lopez, and former spokesperson for North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum's presidential campaign, Lance Trover.

Lance, let me start with you first. I'm sure there's not a lot of love for Michael Cohen anymore inside the Republican Party, but Harris made a similar point last night about dictators rooting for Trump so they can manipulate him with flattery and favors if he's elected. Did you -- do you find that argument convincing? What about that argument?

LANCE TROVER, FORMER SPOKESPERSON, GOVERNOR DOUG BURGUM'S 2024 PRESIDENT CAMPAIGN: Well, first off, does anybody really care what Michael Cohen has to say? If I meet one voter who really gives a damn what he thinks, nobody does, certainly nobody inside the Republican Party cares.

ACOSTA: I have to tell you, I know what you mean Lance, but when I walked around this Democratic National Convention, he could not walk 10 feet without a Democrat coming up to him. I'm just saying, that is what we witnessed. What we experienced. Inside the Republican Party of course.

TROVER: Of course. Of course he hates Donald Trump.

ACOSTA: I'm just letting you know. Yes. TROVER: Everybody in that arena hates Donald Trump. Of course, they were. They're all on the same side. OK. Back to your question. Look, I don't recall -- I mean, yes, the dictator stuff is fine, but Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, we are locked in a war with Ukraine that we did not have when Donald Trump was president. Hamas attacked Israel. We did not have that going on when he was president.

And I mean -- so if -- yes, if he has a way of talking to dictators and he likes nice things being said about them, but we didn't have nearly the foreign policy entanglements that we have had over the course of the last three and half years as Kamala Harris has been vice president. So, that is a fact that can't go unnoticed.

And look, I get it. She -- her whole speech last night was built around forgetting the fact that she's been vice president, forgetting the fact that she ran one of the most far-left campaigns for president this country has ever seen, and forgetting the fact that she was one of the most liberal senators this country has ever seen. That was what the entire speech was built around. It was trying to focus on Donald Trump and not the record that she has had, and I totally get that.

ACOSTA: All right. Maria, I mean, she -- you know, Harris highlighted a lot -- I mean, Lance is kind of glossing over it, but Harris was highlighting that Trump says he wants to do a lot of things other than just be cozying up to dictators. I mean, she talked about how Donald Trump has talked about jailing journalists and political opponents. He's done this.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes, that's exactly right. And I think what Vice President Harris did last night was not just remind people what he did four years ago, but highlight what he has already said he would do.

I know he and his supporters are dying to run away from Project 2025, but Project 2025 is on paper and so many of the things that would be detrimental to our country, to our society, to our democracy, to so many voters in the country are written in black and white and Project '25 -- Project 2025 in terms of what he would want to do.

And he's talked about them. He talked about getting rid of the Department of Education. He talked about what you just said, jailing his opponents, including journalists. He talks about mass deportation. He wants to put deportation camps all around the country. He would instill family separation again. So, he would yet again, rip babies from the arms of their mother. So, all of that is right there for everyone to read and see.

ACOSTA: Yes. Laura, let's listen to a bit more of what Kamala Harris say about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is an unserious man, but the consequences of putting Donald Trump back in the White House are extremely serious.

[10:40:00]

Donald Trump tried to throw away your votes. When he failed, he sent an armed mob to the United States Capitol where they assaulted law enforcement officers. Consider what he intends to do if we give him power again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And, Laura, we also saw Brian Sicknick's family up on-stage paying tribute to the fallen Capitol Police officer. January 6th was not glossed over. It was not swept to the side at this convention.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST AND WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, PBS NEWHOUR: It was not, and you also heard Republicans like Adam Kinzinger and Lieutenant -- former lieutenant governor of Georgia, Geoff Duncan. And I think it was striking that you saw all of these Republicans come out, people that are Republican through and through, they're super conservative.

And they also featured testimonial from Republican voters across the country, people that had considered themselves Republicans their entire life, cite things like the constitution, January 6, the insurrection, as reasons for why they felt that they couldn't support Donald Trump anymore. And that is something that I have -- you know, I've met voters like that in states like Arizona. And being reminded of January 6 is something that the Harris campaign really wanted to do. They wanted to remind voters of it, and they're going to continue to do that between now and November.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, it is remarkable, Lance. I mean, this convention felt like an appeal to the middle. I mean, you know, there were -- there was a lot of red meat for the base just as there was at the RNC. No question about that. You're right about that. But at the same time, it did seem to be a fight for the middle, fight for those last remaining undecided. So, there's little time left in this race.

And I do want to bring this up. Trump, apparently, at an event yesterday, admitted that he came up, quote, just a little short. What did you think of that when you -- did you catch that and what'd you think of it?

TROVER: I didn't catch that part about coming up short. I'm not sure what that's referencing, but --

ACOSTA: In the 2020 election, he said he came up a little short. What's remarkable about that is, I mean, what we saw in January 6 was the outcome of him not wanting to concede that election and to kind of admit this yesterday that he came up a little short. I thought that was pretty extraordinary.

TROVER: Well, I didn't -- yes, I didn't hear that. And I mean, that's -- look, that election's over. Joe Biden won it. You know, we know where that all landed here. But I do want to go back to this about appealing to the middle. I mean, this is what I was hitting on when I was talking about earlier and trying to forget Kamala Harris' record, and that was really what that speech entailed. I mean, she suddenly now wants us to believe that she's the border hawk when it was she and Joe Biden who came into office and undid all of the Trump policies which unleashed millions of illegal immigrants into this country and now she's waving her hand saying, oh, I'm now here to take control of the border. It's like the arsonist calling the fire department.

At the end of the day, though, the rubber is going to meet the road here in the next couple of weeks. Are we going to have a campaign by teleprompter or is she going to step forward and explain to voters if she wants to lower costs for middle Americans? That's a noble goal.

ACOSTA: Yes. But, Lance --

TROVER: How are we -- how is she -- that's the question.

ACOSTA: I was going to say, Lance, I mean, but the Republicans had a chance to tighten security at the border via that bipartisan bill that Trump said that they should not pass. I mean, there is that, right? I mean, isn't that going to be -- that's going to come up at the debate that's going to be happening in a few weeks from now. I mean, that's out there.

TROVER: That's -- absolutely, that's a fair debate to have, but we can't talk about these issues and gloss over her role and how the border became a mess in the first place. She can't just show up today and say, oh, I was here to fix it without acknowledging the fact that she and her and Joe Biden were the cause of most of the problems.

ACOSTA: Well, let me ask Maria for a response to that. Yes.

CARDONA: Well, first of all, she was never the border czar. That is something that has been --

ACOSTA: Right, that's inaccurate.

CARDONA: That is inaccurate.

ACOSTA: Right.

CARDONA: Secondly, if you go back and actually look at the facts, what the Biden administration had to do when they came in was to rebuild the immigration system from the ground up because Donald Trump completely eviscerated every single pathway to come here legally and he did nothing to diminish illegal entrance into the country.

And in fact, today -- and this is something I think Lance also glosses over, today, the numbers of people coming across the border are lower than they were under Donald Trump. And that is because of the policies that Biden-Harris have put in place. They are focused, and now she is focused, and she talked about this last night, on real solutions. A common sense, balanced approach that talks about strong border security. And traditionally, it has been Democrats that have invested a lot more into border security as well as expanded legal pathways. That's what Americans want.

ACOSTA: All right, guys. And Laura, as you know, being on the campaign trail --

TROVER: Even --

ACOSTA: No, I was just going to say we are -- I was going to say to Laura very quickly that it is going to be -- this is -- the border is -- people are going to be voting on this border issue.

[10:45:00]

BARRON-LOPEZ: They are. I was talking to Pete Aguilar, the third ranking chair this week, and he said that he thinks that she can take this mantle, as Maria said, and that it'll reach a lot of voters across the spectrum.

ACOSTA: All right. We'll keep the discussion going, Lance. Don't worry. We'll have you back. Maria, Laura, and Lance, thanks so much, guys. Really appreciate it.

CARDONA: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: Coming up, it's the show many know for fast dialogue and even faster steps down the hallway.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on. We're walking and talking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Harold, copies of Josh's brief.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the little big man?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Already in his hands.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Music to my ears.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Who can forget them? Coming up next, a behind the scenes look at "The West Wing" with two of the show's cast members, 25 years after it first premiered, say it ain't so. Can't wait to talk to both of these ladies. They're coming up next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's happening?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got our asses kicked in the first quarter, but it's time to get up off the mat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is more important than re-election. I want to speak now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to talk to the staff, I'm going to take them off the leash.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a strategy for all this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have the beginnings of one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to try that for a little while.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Got to love a little President Bartlet. It has been 25 years since Aaron Sorkin and Martin Sheen took us inside "The West Wing," and in a week that's been packed to the brim with political nostalgia, we're getting a candid new look behind the scenes of the celebrated show. And joining me now to talk about this, West Wing alums and New York Times bestselling authors Melissa Fitzgerald and Mary McCormack. They're the authors of "What's Next: A Backstage Pass to The West Wing, Its Crew -- Cast and Crew, and It's Enduring Legacy of Service."

And, Melissa and Mary, great to see both of you. Great to talk to both of you. I'm such huge fans of the show. Huge fans of both of you. So, this is a real treat for me. Yes, I mean, this was like --

MELISSA FITZGERALD, AUTHOR, "WHAT'S NEXT: A BACKSTAGE PASS TO THE WEST WING" AND ACTRESS, "THE WEST WING": For us too.

ACOSTA: This was one of the reasons why I became a political junkie. This show, I mean, honestly. And one of the things I have to say, one of my kids is a big diehard fan of the show. Now, all these years later, and yes, we were just talking about this during the break with some of the crew members, like, yes, some of the computers on the desks on set are a little clunky, look at now, and the phones are kind of like way too big and stuff like that, but it still holds. There's so much that -- there's so much pure and just amazing that -- to look back at these shows now.

What runs through your mind when you talk to people and they just express all this love for that show?

MARY MCCORMACK, AUTHOR, "WHAT'S NEXT: A BACKSTAGE PASS TO THE WEST WING" AND ACTRESS, "THE WEST WING": Yes, I mean, Aaron Sorkin called it a love letter to public service, and it is, and it has inspired, like you, generations of people who are either political junkies or just have -- you know, headed to Washington and made service part of their life.

And Melissa lives there now. And is a civilian doing great work. And she meets these people all the time. You know, people who are really there for the right reasons. We sometimes forget that, but that's -- but there are people, you know, in politics for the right reasons to do the most good for the most people. But they are there. And I think "The West Wing" has a lot to answer for that.

FITZGERALD: And there's nothing that feels better than having people come up on the street and say, I'm here because of "The West Wing." It feels great because that is a true real-world legacy. And as Mary said, the -- our government is populated with really smart people who want to make the lives of everybody in our country better, and I think the show really showed that and highlighted that.

And I think our book, "What's Next," is really meeting that moment, because that feeling is back, and it's in the air, and it's exciting. It's just an exciting time.

MCCORMACK: Yes.

ACOSTA: No, that is so true. And, Mary, what you said a few moments ago about how, yes, there are good people in our government. I mean, they get trashed as being part of the deep state and all this stuff all the time. And I can't tell you, and these are Americans who come from all across the country, from all 50 states, to try to make our country a better place.

And, Mary, I mean, when you look at this political campaign that's unfolding right now, what are you taking away from it and how it relates back to the show?

MCCORMACK: I think it's -- listen, the show is aspirational, right? It's very optimistic. Sometimes it's criticized for that, but I think it's a tonic. I think people are -- I meet people all the time who are like, I'm on my 20th rewatch, you know, and I think it's because it's like an antidote to despair. It is really like --

ACOSTA: Yes.

MCCORMACK: People are sick of being sick. And I think we're seeing that right now with the Walz-Harris campaign. We're seeing that kind of need for hope, need for joy. I mean, Charles Blow called it -- the other day, he called it a radical insistence on joy. And I thought that was the best phrase just because we are -- people are done. They want to feel hope. They want to feel encouraged. They want to feel love for their neighbor. And I think that's what's happening right now. And that's what happened in "The West Wing." So, it's a nice correlation for us, certainly.

ACOSTA: Yes, Melissa, I mean, Martin Sheen, Jed Bartlet, you know, let Bartlet be Bartlet, like in that clip we just showed there a few moments ago. I mean, there's something to be said for gosh, you know, that was quite a time to be alive to, you know, watch that show and those kinds of messages I think really hit home with people.

FITZGERALD: I agree with you, they absolutely hit home with people, and for a reason, and they still resonate to this day. I mean, sadly, a lot of the issues that were tackled on "The West Wing" are still issues today. But I think the message that I take away when I look back on the show, when -- as we were working on our book and just being here right now is that we have to work together and that we will solve. We face great, enormous challenges in our country and in the world, but when we come together, when we work together, when we find common ground, we can really solve big problems, we can do hard things. And you know, Mary and I talk about this a lot, Martin Sheen was such a leader in those ways for all of us on the set. There's just so much love for him as a person. I think it sort of parallels the love that we all feel for Bartlet. But Martin has been an extraordinary, extraordinary mentor to all of us.

[10:55:00]

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, what a guy. And, Mary, I mean, can you talk a little bit about why this show is so timeless? Why does it still speak to us?

MCCORMACK: Well, I mean, like Melissa said, some of the issues are still there. You know, there is an environment episode and gun control episode. And those things haven't gotten better, they've gotten worse. So, I think the issues still hold. And there's great storytelling. I mean, we'd be remiss if we didn't mention Aaron Sorkin and all of this, you know.

ACOSTA: Absolutely.

MCCORMACK: You know political shows never worked before "The West Wing," I mean, ever. And they had been tried. And you know, Aaron Sorkin, in his hands, you can sort of tell any story. So, I think that he has a lot to do with it. You know, there's no way around that.

ACOSTA: Yes.

FITZGERALD: Absolutely.

ACOSTA: Yes. I would tell people if they watch season one, if they've not seen it before, this the episode on proportionate response, that is the one that I always think speaks to me, you know, a friend of Jed Bartlet gets killed and he has to decide to strike back at the people who are responsible for it and they -- you know, the whole episode is about proportionate response and it just takes you into the reality of what these officials go through on a day-to-day basis.

But anyway, we can't reminisce too long. I've got to go to a break. But I'm so --

MCCORMACK: I know. I'm sure.

ACOSTA: -- happy to have spoken with both of you.

FITZGERALD: Well, thank you so much.

ACOSTA: You know, it is. You're in the business.

MCCORMACK: Yes, we do.

ACOSTA: Thank you, Melissa and Mary. Really appreciate the time. Check out the book. And I do want to note "The West Wing" was produced by Warner Bros. television. We need to note that. A division of CNN parent company, WBD.

We'll be right back. Stay with us.

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